Episode 172: Electric Evolution Christmas Special with Liz Allan and Michele Liddle - People, Purpose and the Conversations Behind the Work

Episode 172: Electric Evolution Christmas Special with Liz Allan and Michele Liddle - People, Purpose and the Conversations Behind the Work.

In this special Christmas episode, Liz Allan is joined by someone listeners may have heard mentioned many times but are only now meeting properly, Michele Liddle.

Michele is the Marketing Director of ChargeWise CX and has worked alongside Liz at Full Circle CI for over four years. In this relaxed and honest festive conversation, Liz and Michele reflect on the year that's been, the lessons they’ve learned, and the realities of building meaningful work in the EV charging and sustainability space.

Together, they talk openly about working remotely for years before properly meeting, navigating burnout, rediscovering purpose, and how neurodivergence has shaped the way they work, think and support others. Michele also shares her creative life beyond EVs, from running her own podcast, Shell's Spooky Stories, to paranormal investigation and storytelling.

This episode is less about technology and more about people. It’s a reminder that progress in EV charging, net zero and sustainability comes from empathy, curiosity and collaboration, not noise or blame.

Michele Liddle Bio:
Michele Liddle is the Marketing Director of ChargeWise CX and a long-standing member of the Full Circle CI team, having worked closely with Liz Allan for over four years. With a strong creative background, Michele leads on visual storytelling, digital content and brand development, bringing clarity and humanity to complex topics. Alongside her work in EV charging and sustainability, Michele hosts her own podcast, Shell's Spooky Stories, which explores folklore, paranormal investigation, and personal storytelling. She is also a passionate advocate for neurodivergent ways of working and creating healthier, more compassionate professional environments.

Quote of the Episode:
“If you come from a positive place, you can actually solve more problems. Pointing fingers just makes people feel bad, it doesn’t make anything better.”
Michele Liddle

Michele Liddle Links:
Website: https://fullcircleci.co.uk
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michele-marie-liddle
Shell's Spooky Stories - YouTube:

Transcript

Liz Allan [00:00:02]:
Hi, everyone, and welcome to the Christmas episode of Electric Evolution. We should be wearing hats, really, shouldn't we?

Michele Liddle [00:00:11]:
Yeah, we're not going to, though.

Liz Allan [00:00:13]:
We're not going to wear hats. So this week, I'm going to properly introduce you to Michelle Liddle. It's only the second time she's ever been on this podcast, but we've been working together for over four years now. So it's about time, really, isn't it?

Michele Liddle [00:00:31]:
Yeah, I've been waiting for my debut for 4.5 years.

Liz Allan [00:00:36]:
Yeah, well, you kind of were on one before, weren't you? But that's sort of a long time ago. So this is, this is important really, to kind of introduce Michelle. So I'm just. Like I say, I'm just going to say that we have. So Michelle and I have worked in Full circle, continuous improvement for four and a half, four-and-a-halfish years now, haven't we?

Michele Liddle [00:01:04]:
Yeah, I think it's like four years, three months, six hours and how many hours?

Liz Allan [00:01:14]:
And this is why we get on. Yeah, and this is why we get on. And the. And the irony is that it's bizarre we've only met face-to-face a handful of times over four and a half years. Because I live in Reading, Michelle lives up in Northumberland.

Michele Liddle [00:01:28]:
Yeah. I think it's four times we've met in person.

Liz Allan [00:01:33]:
I know. It's mad, isn't it?

Michele Liddle [00:01:34]:
Yeah. I should probably address the fact that I don't usually sound like this.

Liz Allan [00:01:39]:
That's very true. So Michelle at the moment is a little bit poorly sick, aren't you?

Michele Liddle [00:01:43]:
Yeah, yeah, I've had.

Liz Allan [00:01:45]:
She's been a bit polysick for a few days.

Michele Liddle [00:01:47]:
Flu. Covid. Cold. I don't know what we call it these days, but I've just been ill. Let's.

Liz Allan [00:01:54]:
Let's start because I haven't even said what your title is, really. You've kind of got two titles for our new business, so. So maybe I should introduce you as the Marketing Director of Charge Wise cx.

Michele Liddle [00:02:09]:
I am, yeah. I feel like we should have some sound effects, clapping, and celebration.

Liz Allan [00:02:17]:
So I'm going to introduce you as that. So let us, though, because that's. That's. People are going to be going, what, what, what? The song. What's that all about? Yeah, but before we go into that, let's talk a little bit about you. Because the eye. There were things that she does on a weekend that you might not know about. Etc.

Liz Allan [00:02:40]:
Let's talk a little bit about what you do for Full Circle, what you have done, like, during your career and. And kind of. Yeah. I really do think we need to introduce what you do on the weekend as well.

Michele Liddle [00:02:59]:
What I do for fun.

Liz Allan [00:03:01]:
Yeah, exactly.

Michele Liddle [00:03:04]:
Yeah. A bit weird. Yeah. Where do you want to start? At the very beginning, the day I was born. That's one of my favourite movies.

Liz Allan [00:03:15]:
That's  "Doe a deer".

Michele Liddle [00:03:17]:
Yeah. Yeah.

Liz Allan [00:03:18]:
Perfect timing.

Michele Liddle [00:03:19]:
Sometimes I have no idea. You gotta put some Christmas jokes in. Really bad ones.

Liz Allan [00:03:28]:
Oh, God. That's like a Niall Riddel joke, that, innit?

Michele Liddle [00:03:31]:
Yeah. I still don't know who he is.

Liz Allan [00:03:34]:
Oh, stop it. Oh, look, we're gonna start. We're going to go off in this direction already.

Michele Liddle [00:03:40]:
Yeah.

Liz Allan [00:03:41]:
There is a story, everybody, about me and my really bad memory. Neil, if you're listening now, or any of the Power Team, any of the Power Rangers, you are going to be laughing because of the fact that I kept forgetting that they had. They had met. And I kept going, so, have you two met? And then they just took the total mickey out of me.

Michele Liddle [00:04:00]:
Yeah.

Liz Allan [00:04:01]:
So now that's what she always said.

Michele Liddle [00:04:03]:
It was quite bad day one of the EV rally, wasn't it? That every stop point that we got to, me and Niall would be like, hi, I'm Michele. Hi, I'm Niall. I've never met you before. It just got a bit silly. So now there's an ongoing joke that anytime somebody mentions Niall, and I'm involved in the conversation, I just say, " Don't know who he is. Never met him.

Liz Allan [00:04:25]:
Yeah. That's all because of me and my really terrible memory.

Michele Liddle [00:04:29]:
But I have met him, and he's a fabulous man.

Liz Allan [00:04:33]:
He is.

Michele Liddle [00:04:33]:
We appreciate Niall 

Liz Allan [00:04:35]:
And it just shows.I like to introduce people, but I do it more than normal people would.

Michele Liddle [00:04:41]:
Yeah, you're definitely more of a people person than I am. That's why I'm the background lady, because I'm not that into the people.

Liz Allan [00:04:52]:
You know. I'm gonna disagree there.

Michele Liddle [00:04:54]:
I know.

Liz Allan [00:04:55]:
So, before we talk about exactly what she does, I'll tell you a little story. Last year, so 2024. So March 2024 was the first time you ever came down here, wasn't it? So down to Reading.

Michele Liddle [00:05:11]:
Yeah.

Liz Allan [00:05:11]:
Went through everything Electric over at the Excel. You're not the best traveller.

Michele Liddle [00:05:18]:
So you weren't really. I'm not.

Liz Allan [00:05:20]:
I had to play Nurse Liz.

Michele Liddle [00:05:22]:
Yeah, yeah. Very good nurse.

Liz Allan [00:05:26]:
Yes, thank you. But we went to Everything Electric the following day, and you were actually. No, we. No, we just launched the. We relaunched the Full Circle website.

Michele Liddle [00:05:35]:
Haven't we.

Liz Allan [00:05:35]:
Then. So we had a whole day here for you to recover, and I was feeding you all sorts of wellness things. Well, please have this. Feel better soon.

Michele Liddle [00:05:45]:

I was so ill that I didn't actually care what you were giving me. I was just like, just give me everything.

Liz Allan [00:05:51]:
Exactly. But then. So the day after, we went to Everything Electric over at the Excel, and I am such a big fan of Robert Llewellyn. I'd wanted to get Robert on the podcast since we started, and I was so nervous about even discussing it, and I think maybe I'd tried and sort of failed once. And we were both. We were just wandering around. I think we were getting ready to leave, weren't we? And. And it was getting quieter at the.

Michele Liddle [00:06:24]:
End of the day. We just bumped into Kate, hadn't we?

Liz Allan [00:06:27]:
Kate Tyrell, So, yeah. Yeah. And. And then Robert walked past, and you can tell them the rest.

Michele Liddle [00:06:36]:
Yeah. I can only say it. It's like Liz malfunctioned. Like, I've never seen a human malfunction. It was just like Liz had forgotten how to do anything other than just go. Yeah. I don't even know if that was the noise you made, but it was just like a. So I had to, like, save the day and jump in front of Liz and be like, we've been trying to get you on the podcast.

Michele Liddle [00:07:06]:
Do you want to come on? And he probably thought, like, who was she? Where did she come from?

Liz Allan [00:07:13]:
She was literally like, Mr. Ben and popped up from behind me. Michelle to the rescue.

Michele Liddle [00:07:22]:
Yeah.

Liz Allan [00:07:24]:
I just couldn't get my words out. I just went, yeah. And you just saved the day. So. So for those of you who.

Michele Liddle [00:07:34]:
Yeah.

Liz Allan [00:07:35]:
If you've been listening for a while, you've probably heard the episode. I think it was like episode 90.

Michele Liddle [00:07:40]:
It was in the 90s. Yeah. Yeah.

Liz Allan [00:07:42]:
And. But yeah, just to kind of get Robert on was such.

Michele Liddle [00:07:48]:
Yeah.

Liz Allan [00:07:48]:
An amazing feat. So thank you, darling.

Michele Liddle [00:07:51]:
It was the same day that I managed to angle our 100th guest as well, which I'm pretty sure I blackmailed.

Liz Allan [00:07:58]:
Yeah, we won't talk about him, will we? Because he didn't even talk about us to anybody watching or listening. Jonny Berry. Yeah, we know you are. We know where you are.

Michele Liddle [00:08:08]:
Naughty, naughty, naughty. He's on this, and it's the naughty list. I've put him there myself.

Liz Allan [00:08:17]:
Exactly, exactly. You know, just because he works with the other four doesn't mean I'm like.

Michele Liddle [00:08:22]:
The Electric Evolution Elf. That's what I'm going to call myself from now on.

Liz Allan [00:08:28]:
Oh, you were brilliant, honestly.

Michele Liddle [00:08:30]:
So.

Liz Allan [00:08:31]:
Right, let's, let's talk about then what, what we've been, what we've been doing together. I mean, what? So you were, you've kind of been involved in creative stuff for some time now. That's really how we met. It was kind of when I was sort of realising that for. As a business, as a small business, you can't do everything, you know. I met Chris Hunter, who was helping write some of the content through our social media. But neither I nor. Well, Chris wasn't the kind of creative imagery side, you know.

Michele Liddle [00:09:10]:
Yeah, he was the creative word side.

Liz Allan [00:09:12]:
He's very much a wordsmith. I always, I always say that about Chris.

Michele Liddle [00:09:16]:
He's a modern-day Shakespeare.

Liz Allan [00:09:19]:
He is very Shakespearean, isn't he?

Michele Liddle [00:09:20]:
Yeah, probably better. I'd say, Chris, you can pay me later.

Liz Allan [00:09:31]:
But you, you're, you've always been the kind of the images side and, and kind of like the pulling out, pulling all of our socials and, and things like that together.

Michele Liddle [00:09:43]:
That's one of my gifts, maybe.

Liz Allan [00:09:46]:
Yeah. When did you, when did you get into that? What was, what was sort of like what kind of drew you to that originally?

Michele Liddle [00:09:54]:
So I've never really been academic, and now I know why, because I have this year, which you've been part of my journey as well. You've helped me with this. Well, we've kind of helped each other with this, really, because we've both been in it. Being diagnosed as audhd. Is that how you say it? Yeah. Yeah.

Liz Allan [00:10:20]:
So we didn't know when we first started working together.

Michele Liddle [00:10:24]:
No, we were, I mean, the signs were all there, but we didn't know the signs were quite. Yeah.

Liz Allan [00:10:32]:
I don't know what the signs are.

Michele Liddle [00:10:34]:
No. Well, we didn't know what the signs were at that point. Now we can pick you out of a lineup if there is such a thing.

Liz Allan [00:10:44]:
Yeah, you're that, and you're that, and you're those.

Michele Liddle [00:10:47]:
Yeah. Disclaimer. We aren't actual doctors, but yeah, please. Yeah, but we do know. Yeah. So I was diagnosed with ADHD and autism this year. So that's been a wild ride. But it makes so much sense because I had no interest in maths, English, science, or any of those.

Michele Liddle [00:11:10]:
It was always about art or anything creative that I could do, especially hands-on stuff, like even woodwork, I loved at school, because it was like getting nothing and creating something. So that's always been. Yeah, that's always been my thing. I remember at gcse I did. We called it resistant materials, but it basically was woodwork, so I did that. And I remember that I came up with this design for a triangle shelf, like a triangle shelving unit. And I remember him saying to me, like, the mathematics of it, it won't work. It will just fall over.

Michele Liddle [00:11:47]:
And I was determined to make that thing so it would stand up straight. And I did it, and it worked, and it stood up perfectly straight. And I was like, see? You just need a vision.

Liz Allan [00:11:57]:
Yeah, absolutely.

Michele Liddle [00:11:59]:
But, yeah, that was kind of what I've always been passionate about. Drawing, art, that kind of stuff. I spent a lot of my spare time doing creative projects, as we know. Miniature painting seems to be the new thing that I've accidentally got into, thanks to my husband. It's great. His hobby has now become my hobby somehow, and I'm not that impressed with it.

Liz Allan [00:12:23]:
That's kind of like little figurines, isn't it?

Michele Liddle [00:12:26]:
Yeah, like little figurines. So he. He plays, like, these little tabletop games that some of them are so small that you can't even see their faces. But apparently you have to, like, see their face and paint it. But this seems to be the new little thing that I get involved in just because it's a creative thing, and I've been drawn into painting. But, yeah, anything creative I've always been into. But I think we found each other. It must have been fate, because you found me in a Facebook group where I hadn't been a member of for God knows how long, and I was in there as a virtual assistant.

Michele Liddle [00:13:04]:
So in 2018, I set up a virtual assistant business because I wanted to work for myself. I wanted to kind of push myself and do creative things for other entrepreneurs. And then Liz had sent me an email, and I was like, where does she find me? Because I haven't been advertising for, like, ages, because I was kind of working for other people. And then I wasn't really, like, pushing myself or anything, so I was like, oh, well, I'll have a call with her and see. And I remember on the call, I was talking to you about something, and I said, oh, full circle. And you, like, made a funny face. And I was like, why should you put in a weird face? And you went, you do know that's the name of my business? Because I didn't even know that about you. And I was like, oh, no.

Michele Liddle [00:13:47]:
I just obviously had said full circle. And you're like, oh, it's the sign. And then I started doing some. It was just like the odd hour here. And there to start with, wasn't it?

Liz Allan [00:13:58]:
Just a few hours, wasn't it?

Michele Liddle [00:14:00]:
Yeah. And then we started to increase the hours because we got on so well, and we were doing loads of different things, and then I became like a full-time member of staff, and now we have created a business together, a second business. Yeah, yeah.

Liz Allan [00:14:20]:
So, so, yeah, it's all. It's been a. It's been a bit of a ride, hasn't it?

Michele Liddle [00:14:24]:
It's been a wild ride.

Liz Allan [00:14:26]:
God, especially this year. I mean, like you say, with you getting the, the, the kind of both diagnoses in a year, that. That's a hard one because, I mean, even just, you know, for me getting the ADHD diagnosis, what was it must be nearly three years ago now.

Michele Liddle [00:14:43]:
Yeah.

Liz Allan [00:14:44]:
No, at the age of 54, that, you know, I'm 57 now, and actually that was a bit like. Oh, my God.

Michele Liddle [00:14:52]:
Yeah.

Liz Allan [00:14:53]:
Even though I wanted it, it's still one of those hard things to kind of deal with because you go through that level of grief, don't you, you know?

Michele Liddle [00:15:01]:
Yeah.

Liz Allan [00:15:02]:
Oh, my God. You know, what would have, what would have happened if I'd have known this before or somebody else would have actually known this and I wouldn't have given myself up about that and blah, blah, blah. Because you found that with the. Because you can't get an odhd, as they call it. So autism and ADHD together are called aud, dhd, as Michelle said, but we call it adhd. You can't get them in one because nhs won't. They can't. It's not seen as.

Liz Allan [00:15:30]:
Yeah, one condition. It's kind of two separate ones. So. Yeah, it's like a bit of a bolt-on, isn't it? You know.

Michele Liddle [00:15:35]:
Yeah. Because it was from my ADHD diagnosis that they said you need to have a diagnosis for autism, and I'd been on the waiting list for their ADHD one for what, two years, almost maybe three years. Yeah. And then, so you get that out of the way, you go through that whole grief and process of, like, what would my childhood have been like if somebody had noticed? Like, I wasn't naughty, I was naughty at school, but it wasn't like me being naughty on purpose. It was because I literally had no interest because nobody was sitting there to pique my interest in the subject or, you know, tell me a different way of learning it, maybe. So you go through all of that, and then you have to go on another waiting list, wait another, what, six months? Yeah, to then get another diagnosis, and in between that, they were chucking a load of medication at me that didn't work. So I had like three different. Lots of medication which were giving me like ups and downs.

Michele Liddle [00:16:38]:
Not on a. Just a psychological level, but it was also like a body chemical level that was causing all sorts of issues. So it's been high blood pressure. Yeah, yeah. Which I still have high blood pressure. I've never had medication for that, which is. Well, it's marvellous because I no longer feel like my heart's going to jump out of my body at some point, but I didn't even notice that. I mean, that's probably a good thing that's come from that because I don't have as many headaches as I used to have and, you know, that kind of thing.

Liz Allan [00:17:09]:
Yeah, you were. Yeah, you did have quite a lot.

Michele Liddle [00:17:11]:
Yeah, I was just getting really bad migraines and stuff. But touch wood, since the blood pressure tablets have come on board, I haven't really had any. So possibly related, possibly not, who knows?

Liz Allan [00:17:22]:
But I'm going, I'm moving on from that sort of coming out the other side of that, that diagnosis, because, you know, you, you end up going down a bit of a well, don't you? Kind of. It's sort of feels a bit like, oh my God, what does this mean? And you know, that you've gone. Been down through two wells in a.

Michele Liddle [00:17:41]:
Year.

Liz Allan [00:17:43]:
You know, and I, and I saw it and I felt it, you know, because. And that's what I'd say about working together so closely. Even though we don't live close together, we do talk, you know, all the time.

Michele Liddle [00:17:55]:
We talk a lot.

Liz Allan [00:17:56]:
When we get on, we talk a lot. She says she doesn't like people, but me and her talk a lot.

Michele Liddle [00:18:02]:
Yeah, like, I do. Yeah, I do. Like, maybe I'm saying I don't like people. That's probably a bit extreme, isn't it? But I am someone who does like people, but I like being in my own energy. I like being in my own space. I noticed like, if we do go to big events, and this is probably what a lot of people in my situation feel like is when you go to a big events, you get really hyperactive because you're like buzzing to be there and there's a lot going on and, you know, it's a bit of like a sensory overload and you're like, oh, shiny objects. And then afterwards, you take about two weeks to recover because you've just used so much energy to keep yourself going while you're there.

Liz Allan [00:18:49]:
But I did enjoy it, you know, you know, like a clockwork toy. But I used, I used to have. Oh my God. I remember when I was a kid. Sorry, I'm going off on a spicy tangent now, but I remember when I was a kid, I had a wind-up record player, and I remember overwinding it, and it just went, you know, and that's what we feel like inside. I don't know about you, but that's how I feel, you know, and you're right, you. It's kind of like you expend twice the amount of energy or seem to expend twice the amount of energy.

Michele Liddle [00:19:22]:
Yeah.

Liz Allan [00:19:23]:
When you get to the end, you're like deflated and shattered and just need to be in a darkened room with the, you know, kind of just in a corner or something.

Michele Liddle [00:19:34]:
Yeah. With the duvet over your head and no interruptions. Noise-cancelling headphones. Yeah, it's hard. It's hard.

Liz Allan [00:19:45]:
People don't always realise that that's how much it hits you. But I mean. But like, what is it now? So, just over a year and a bit ago, she said she's gonna, she said about not liking people, but she also set up a podcast.

Michele Liddle [00:20:01]:
I have. Yeah.

Liz Allan [00:20:02]:
So, talk about Shell's spooky stories. Because that is your podcast, and it started by doing one thing.

Michele Liddle [00:20:12]:
Yeah.

Liz Allan [00:20:13]:
And then you've started, you've kind of moved it to do slightly different things. Our lovely podcast producer, Tom, who we.

Michele Liddle [00:20:21]:
We love Tom with. Yeah, he's brilliant. Yeah, we love Tom. Yeah. So October last year, I set up a podcast around my interest, my weekend job. Yeah, I like to keep myself busy because Liz doesn't keep me busy enough, apparently. So I like to keep busy. Basicall,y since I was little, I've always had an interest in the spookier side of the world.

Michele Liddle [00:20:55]:
You know, witches, goblins, monsters, you know, all of that. I was one of those kids who watched Ghostbusters, Scooby Doo, and, you know, all of that. That if it was a mystery, I was in. If it was a ghost, I was in Casper the Friendly Ghost when I was a teenager. You know, the craft movie came out, and it was just. I just love all that kind of stuff. So when I basically moved up here, and Liz was actually a catalyst for this as well, because she was like, just go out and meet some people. Liz is always pushing me to meet people.

Michele Liddle [00:21:37]:
Me, who doesn't like where you move from?

Liz Allan [00:21:39]:
So, because you live where you lived originally. So, where are you from? Because you've not got the accent from where you are?

Michele Liddle [00:21:46]:
No, I'm not sure I've got much of an accent today, other than maybe Kermit the Frog. I don't know if that's is that accent. So I'm originally from Norfolk. I used to live sort of five miles out from Norwich. Met my husband, who was in the military. He was in the Royal Air Force. We then got based at RAF Marham for pretty much from 2013 to 2021, and we were there. He then got posted to Filing Dales in North Yorkshire, which was quite hard because we then I was in Norfolk for a while while he was working in North Yorkshire, because Ethan, my stepson, who lives with us, was doing his GCSEs, so we couldn't move because he had to get his GCSEs done.

Michele Liddle [00:22:35]:
So we spent a lot of time apart. And then basically once the GCSEs were done in June 2021, we then moved to Northumberland to live with my husband's parents while he was a. Yeah, that's a whole other podcast story. Yeah.

Liz Allan [00:22:56]:
People who were listening wouldn't know what that was. I pulled a little face.

Michele Liddle [00:23:00]:
Yeah. Just imagine living with your in-laws for two years.

Liz Allan [00:23:06]:
But no, thank you. Yeah, sorry, Anna, Dave, if you're listening.

Michele Liddle [00:23:10]:
I do get on with my in-laws. I will say that. It's just when you live with each other, it's very different, especially when your husband's not there to bounce off. I suppose it's just a very weird dynamic. Anyway, that's probably a whole episode in itself. Maybe. Maybe with a therapist or something. Yeah.

Michele Liddle [00:23:36]:
So we. That was. But that was a bit better because he was then coming home sort of every other weekend because he was only like two hours down the road rather than five hours down the road. And then he retired last year, I think. I can't remember. Yeah, last year. So he retired and is still retired now. And we ended up buying our first house together.

Michele Liddle [00:24:05]:
Yeah. He might stay retired; he might not. It's still up in the air if anyone's looking for anyone. Yeah. So we then bought our first house together, and that was. Yeah. In Amble, if anyone likes seaside villages. Amble in Northumberland is a lovely place.

Michele Liddle [00:24:29]:
Come say hi, I'll meet you for about five minutes, and then we'll disappear because I'll be peopled out. I'll come say h,i and then I'll just disappear.

Liz Allan [00:24:41]:
That's kind of what happened the very first time, wasn't it, that we met.

Michele Liddle [00:24:44]:
Oh, the first Time we met each other was disastrous. It's like the Great Flood of England. Northumberland. Yeah. Yeah. It was a nightmare for about.

Liz Allan [00:24:55]:
Was it about 45 minutes or something?

Michele Liddle [00:24:57]:
Yeah, 45 minutes. Yeah. It was a. Hilarious 45 minutes.

Liz Allan [00:25:03]:
My son was there as well.

Michele Liddle [00:25:04]:
Yeah. James was there. We got soaked because it was just constant rain.

Liz Allan [00:25:10]:
It was torrential.

Michele Liddle [00:25:11]:
We booked a table at a restaurant, but we're two hours late, so they've closed. We then couldn't get any food. It was. Yeah. Couldn't find the place where you were staying. Had to flag down many people. Traipse through mud. Yeah.

Michele Liddle [00:25:28]:
It was. It was an experience.

Liz Allan [00:25:30]:
The shoes I had were never the same again.

Michele Liddle [00:25:33]:
No, mine were neither. No, mine weren't either. I'm pretty sure I was wearing white trainers that are. No black. It was a funny experience. Yeah.

Liz Allan [00:25:44]:
I've got a photo of the three of us looking like drowned rats in the car in the dark. I think we're just. We'd not.

Michele Liddle [00:25:52]:
That was. Yeah. Literally under street light, wasn't it?

Liz Allan [00:25:57]:
Comes up on my Google. Google device every now and again, and I just laugh.

Michele Liddle [00:26:01]:
Yeah. So, yeah, that's all we could do is laugh about it because if not, we'd probably cry. It was one of those situations. It was hilarious, though. I. I don't think we could have met in person for the first time without it being some kind of weird adventure.

Liz Allan [00:26:16]:
Yeah, exactly.

Michele Liddle [00:26:16]:
Because every time we've met since has been a weird adventure as well.

Liz Allan [00:26:20]:
It has just been a weird adventure. Oh, my God.

Michele Liddle [00:26:23]:
Definitely.

Liz Allan [00:26:23]:
So moving to Amble, then.

Michele Liddle [00:26:25]:
Yes.

Liz Allan [00:26:26]:
What's happened since moving to Amble? Because you said I. And I did. I do remember saying, go out and meet people because I had exactly the same. When I moved down to the. Down the south, you know, just trying to find people. I think when somebody goes to university and neither of us went to uni, so.

Michele Liddle [00:26:44]:
Sorry.

Liz Allan [00:26:44]:
Anybody, you know. But we didn't, you know, but not everybody does. And when you go. I think when you go to uni, you get a chance to. Chance to meet people, but when you. When you move somewhere, and you're older, that is a little bit more challenging. Especially when you're.

Michele Liddle [00:26:59]:
Yeah.

Liz Allan [00:26:59]:
Neurospicy, as I call us.

Michele Liddle [00:27:01]:
Yeah. Which is weird because I think if we both went to university now, we'd probably really excel. Oh, God.

Liz Allan [00:27:08]:
I think you're right.

Michele Liddle [00:27:09]:
Yeah. Which is really bizarre, isn't it?

Liz Allan [00:27:12]:
Well, listening to James talk about biological sciences and the stuff that he's doing, I was like, oh, that's really interesting.

Michele Liddle [00:27:18]:
Yeah.

Liz Allan [00:27:19]:
I'd really like to do that.

Michele Liddle [00:27:20]:
I think we both know I'd go down the forensic crime-scene route.

Liz Allan [00:27:24]:
You would?

Michele Liddle [00:27:25]:
Yeah.

Liz Allan [00:27:26]:
And James is starting forensic science in January.

Michele Liddle [00:27:28]:
I'm so jealous. I'm gonna be pestering him on WhatsApp.

Liz Allan [00:27:33]:
I know, I know. Oh, yeah. Because James does some of our. Some of our kind of data stuff, doesn't he?

Michele Liddle [00:27:37]:
Yes. Yeah.

Liz Allan [00:27:39]:
Yes. Come on. So you went out?

Michele Liddle [00:27:42]:
Yeah, I went. Yeah. I. Well, basically, what happened first of all was I had to try and think, like, where am I going to find people that have the same interests as me? Because it is quite a unique interest. Not many people are into it.

Liz Allan [00:27:57]:
What is the kind of spooky stuff?

Michele Liddle [00:27:59]:
Yeah. So I happened to go on Facebook, and I think it was the same day, wasn't it, that we'd had this conversation, and there happened to be a paranormal investigation evening happening in Amble at the local antique shop. And I was like, I'll go along, see what it's like. Worst-case scenario, I don't like it. And I come home because it's only five minutes away. But what happened was that I went, thoroughly enjoyed it, and then they asked me to be on their team. So since then, I have been a weekend paranormal investigator, which started the podcast because I wanted to kind of speak to. I mean, I love a ghost story.

Michele Liddle [00:28:44]:
Ghost stories are good all year round, if you ask me, especially this time of year, because of Christmas. A lot of people know this, but Halloween is always associated with ghost stories. But ghost stories are actually more of a Christmas thing than they are a. And I think it's in the Netherlands or Norway, one of those countries. I apologise if I've got it wrong, but they actually gift on. I think it's a new Christmas Eve. They gift ghost stories or a book to one another, and they spend the whole evening on Christmas Eve reading ghost stories.

Liz Allan [00:29:17]:
Do they?

Michele Liddle [00:29:18]:
Yeah.

Liz Allan [00:29:18]:
Oh, my God. I didn't know that. Right, that. You know that I'm a little bit of a wimp when it comes to spooky stuff. So I can only watch. I can only listen to a certain number of your podcasts, can't I? Which is terrible, isn't it? Because I.

Michele Liddle [00:29:31]:
You're like a 5050 fan. I'm.

Liz Allan [00:29:34]:
I'm. I am. I'm just. There are certain things I'm kind of okay with, but still, I'm like, oh, no, I can't.

Michele Liddle [00:29:40]:
Yeah. So the stories I've done to start with were probably a little bit too scary for you.

Liz Allan [00:29:46]:
They were.

Michele Liddle [00:29:47]:
But now I do the interviews, they're not as bad because that's people's personal.

Liz Allan [00:29:52]:
Experience, I was going to say. So you started by writing stories, didn't you?

Michele Liddle [00:29:56]:
Yeah.

Liz Allan [00:29:57]:
Written a story originally, hadn't you? Kind of age, was it ages ago? You'd written kind of like a spooky story or stories a few years back.

Michele Liddle [00:30:06]:
Yeah, I like to. My mum always said to me, like, you need to be a storyteller and tell stories. So I think it was also her passing away that started this whole journey of the paranormal and kind of the ghost story side. So I'd always like to write these little stories. Last year, on my 40th birthday, I actually published a book, which is a ghost story. It's kind of got witches in it as well. Folklore based in the Highlands in Scotland in 1970. But it is based around, like my family, our heritage, because we've got quite a big Celtic heritage.

Michele Liddle [00:30:48]:
It's got my mum in it, it's got me in it, it's got my great-grandmother in it. So that was one of the things that I've. Yeah, I keep myself busy, don't I? Like writing stories, going on ghost hunts, working with Liz, avoiding people. You know, all of these things take a lot of time and dedication, an.

Liz Allan [00:31:11]:
Energy out of you.

Michele Liddle [00:31:12]:
Yeah, they do, yeah. Yeah. But I wouldn't have it any other way. So, yeah, I started telling off ghost stories that some I'd written, some were ones like there's one Black Eyed Children that's done quite well and which is actually like a paranormal folklore thing. But now I've realised that we used to do like one interview, then a story, then an interview, then a story. But I found that with the interviews, I was actually getting more into it because it was people's own experiences. And now our kind of tagline is that every haunting has a heartbeat, whether it be the person that tells the story and experiences the haunting or whatever, or it's somebody telling a story about a spirit that used to be a person, you know, like, you know, a woman that used to live in a castle. Like, what was her life? Why was she there? Why does she haunt the place still? What's the legend? You know, we go into a bit of a CSI kind of haunting breakdown.

Michele Liddle [00:32:20]:
So, yeah, that's kind of what I do at the weekends.

Liz Allan [00:32:24]:
So she's got a very mixed, a mixed bag of things that she does, haven't you? You've got, you do so. So many, so many different, different things. And you know, the, the kind of. The paranormal side has always been I. You know, since you started doing the. The paranormal investigations, that's kind of been your. Your love, you know. I'll let you stop coughing first.

Liz Allan [00:32:56]:
Oh, bless you. You okay?

Michele Liddle [00:33:01]:
Yeah. You know when you talk too much, and then you get that dry throat, and it tickles?

Liz Allan [00:33:05]:
Yeah, I do, I do.

Michele Liddle [00:33:08]:
Sorry.

Liz Allan [00:33:08]:
Oh, no, no, no, it's all right, it's all right, don't worry.

Michele Liddle [00:33:15]:
Oh my God, it's so annoying. Oh, Tom has to edit this, doesn't he?

Liz Allan [00:33:23]:
I know Tom does. Don't worry, he.

Michele Liddle [00:33:26]:
He's used to it. The one I did the other week, I almost died on it. I was like, sorry, Tom. Oh, God.

Liz Allan [00:33:34]:
Have you got any cough mixture near you?

Michele Liddle [00:33:37]:
No, I've used lots of it last night.

Liz Allan [00:33:39]:
Oh, God.

Michele Liddle [00:33:43]:
It's only cuz I was talking for a long period of time then.

Liz Allan [00:33:46]:
What about strips in which I was a. Streps capsules.

Michele Liddle [00:33:50]:
They're all downstairs.

Liz Allan [00:33:52]:
Go and get some.

Michele Liddle [00:33:54]:
That's all right. I've got water. I'll be fine. Okay. Right.

Liz Allan [00:34:06]:
So I was going to say. So doing all of the paranormal stuff is very different to what. What we do, isn't it? It kind of, it's not quite complementary even. It's just very, very. It's just very, very different. But I mean, you're kind of, you're, you know, the paranormal stuff is, is your passion, really, isn't it? You know, the kind of stuff that we do with Full Circle is probably its, you know, it's just a bog standard working every day. But it's still, it still involves that creative side, doesn't it?

Michele Liddle [00:34:46]:
Yeah, definitely. I think what I like about the work we do is probably that it grounds me, because if not, I'd be away with the fairies pretty much 24 7. I don't think that's healthy.

Liz Allan [00:35:05]:
So go on, tell. How does it, how does it ground you? What does it do?

Michele Liddle [00:35:10]:
Well, I think it just brings me more into this world than the other world that I spend a lot of time in. It's. I mean, I think that a lot of people have things that they're interested in that aren't their work. Isn't it like, you know, you've got stuff you're interested in that isn't work. You know, everyone has, they all have hobbies. I mean, loads of us would love our hobbies to be our full-time job. But I also think that if it is your full-time job, it then loses a lot of its appeal.

Liz Allan [00:35:45]:
Yeah.

Michele Liddle [00:35:45]:
I mean, you've said this about when you used to make cakes? You used to love making cakes. The minute it became a job, it kind of sucks the fun out of it.

Liz Allan [00:35:54]:
It does. And I only ever make, like, two cakes a year now because it just dipped my head in.

Michele Liddle [00:35:58]:
Yeah.

Liz Allan [00:35:58]:
Doing it as a business for four years, it's like.

Michele Liddle [00:36:01]:
Yeah.

Liz Allan [00:36:01]:
Oh, my God.

Michele Liddle [00:36:02]:
And I don't think ghosts are gonna pay me to talk to them. So again, ghosts won't pay me to talk to them.

Liz Allan [00:36:09]:
No. It's funny that, isn't it?

Michele Liddle [00:36:10]:
Yeah.

Liz Allan [00:36:10]:
No. Unless they've got really rich relatives and they're kind of, you know, they're turned. They're around and could talk to them.

Michele Liddle [00:36:17]:
Yeah, yeah. I haven't got. What are they called? Marley and Jacob. Jacob Marley. Yeah.

Liz Allan [00:36:23]:
Marley and Marley.

Michele Liddle [00:36:24]:
Yeah. I love that.

Liz Allan [00:36:26]:
I just think of Muppet Christmas Carol.

Michele Liddle [00:36:29]:
Yeah, I do. Yeah. I had this with a Christmas Cracker. It said, how many ghosts are in the Christmas Carol? And I went down the Disney Christmas Carol. So I put Jacob at Marley as two people, like Marley and Marley. And I was like, Jacob Marley is one person. Isn't it in the Christmas Carol? But I was thinking of the Disney version, where it was two ghosts.

Liz Allan [00:36:49]:
Yeah. But it's two ghosts in the Muppet Christmas Carol as well, because they've got the two. You know, the two.

Michele Liddle [00:36:54]:
Yeah, that's the one that I was thinking of. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Because there are two. Two. Yeah.

Liz Allan [00:37:01]:
I just call it Muppets.

Michele Liddle [00:37:02]:
The Two Old Men.

Liz Allan [00:37:03]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. The ones. Is it.

Michele Liddle [00:37:06]:
Oh, God, I don't know what their actual names are.

Liz Allan [00:37:09]:
I think they called Randall and Waldorf or something like that. Yeah. The ones.

Michele Liddle [00:37:12]:
If anyone knows, put it in the comments. Let us know, please. Yeah.

Liz Allan [00:37:17]:
So, okay, so all of the. All of the creative side and all of the. Kind of the structure for our social media stuff, and we have been a bit quiet other than that. Other than the podcast. We've been quiet. Quite quiet on the full circle side, haven't we?

Michele Liddle [00:37:34]:
Yeah.

Liz Allan [00:37:34]:
Because of the fact that we've been busy. We're trying. Yeah. What we're trying to do. That's a bit different now because I suppose if we think about the lessons learned for 2025, we've had a lot business wise.

Michele Liddle [00:37:51]:
Yeah.

Liz Allan [00:37:53]:
What first pops into your. Into your head. No, no, don't worry. Oh, so what first pops into your head? Lessons learned, wise.

Michele Liddle [00:38:23]:
That bloom and tickle inthe  back of my throat is doing my nut in. It will go away eventually. Yeah.

Liz Allan [00:38:34]:
Keep kind of going like that. See if you can kind of get some at the back of your throat to stop it tickling.

Michele Liddle [00:38:52]:
Bloody hell. That's what I feel like doing. I can still feel it, Man. I'm attractive.

Liz Allan [00:39:12]:
It's fine. You're all right. It's all right.

Michele Liddle [00:39:18]:
Okay, Tom, I apologise.

Liz Allan [00:39:22]:
What would. What would you? Okay. If you're all right to talk, then. So what. What would you say is our? Our biggest lesson learned this year for us, between us and full circle?

Michele Liddle [00:39:37]:
I would say not to have expectations.

Liz Allan [00:39:43]:
What? Because we were expecting. We were expecting certain things to happen this year, and we ended up. We've ended up having. Not having to pivot. We've just ended up realizing that it was important to. To kind of pivot in another direction.

Michele Liddle [00:39:57]:
Yeah. I don't think at the beginning of 2025, we would have thought, one, that we would have started another business. Two, that we would have started a business together and be free. That it would be in the area that it is. Yeah.

Liz Allan [00:40:12]:
I don't think we'd have actually thought that we were going to set up a tech company together, would we?

Michele Liddle [00:40:16]:
No, I didn't have that on my bingo card for 2025.

Liz Allan [00:40:20]:
No. No. It wasn't in my cracker.

Michele Liddle [00:40:22]:
No.

Liz Allan [00:40:23]:
See anything in my cracker that said that? I had some crap crackers last year, but you know that.

Michele Liddle [00:40:27]:
Oh, they're all. They're all pretty crap, this. Yeah. At the moment.

Liz Allan [00:40:30]:
I bought some wet ones this year. I'm hoping for. For better things in 2024. 2026. Oh, my God. Get it right.

Michele Liddle [00:40:37]:
Yeah.

Liz Allan [00:40:38]:
2026.

Michele Liddle [00:40:40]:
I don't think I'm gonna go into 2026 with expectations, full stop. Because I've kind of learned that, you know, you can have these goals, but life throws you curveballs.

Liz Allan [00:40:53]:
But we've. We've learned a lot, though, this year, haven't we, really? Yeah, kind of like from. From talking to drivers to talking to local authorities to talking to charging networks to. You know, because, like, I suppose maybe that's, you know, people have been watching, listening for a while. There's been more about the charging side of things because I suppose that's who we've been. We've been talking to, haven't we?

Michele Liddle [00:41:21]:
Yeah, I would say so. It's been interesting. Very interesting. And we were having this discussion before. I think things are more on the positive side now. Whereas if. I think if we'd had those conversations in 2024, they would have been pretty different.

Liz Allan [00:41:39]:
There has been a bit of a. Bit of a change. I mean, there's. We've kind of. It feels like there's been a bit of a Trump effect this year, but overall, there's been a lot more positivity. And you call the Trump effect a specific colour.

Michele Liddle [00:41:57]:
 Mr Orange Man.

Liz Allan [00:41:59]:
The orange man, yeah.

Michele Liddle [00:42:00]:
Do you remember, like, the adverts you'd like you've been tangoed?

Liz Allan [00:42:03]:
Yeah. Well, he is a bit like that, isn't it? He's a bit of, a bit of that color. But yeah, I mean, overall, there's been that, that level of positive change. Even though it's funny if I don't know about you, it feels like people are hanging on with their fingernails, going, please keep buying my stuff, and just throwing out negative stuff. But overall, we've got more positive, positive kind of thoughts coming from the. The sector.

Michele Liddle [00:42:37]:
Yeah, I would say so. Definitely. It's been nice. It's been refreshing.

Liz Allan [00:42:44]:
It has been very refreshing. So let's. Okay. Shall we just talk a little bit about. About the kind of. The way that we've. I don't know where we've come to the point of setting up a little tech company. You know, I don't, I.

Liz Allan [00:43:07]:
It's. Maybe it's the way we've worked together for such a long time anyway. And Paulas, I'm going to say this to you because she's coughing. So you may, if you're watching, you may see a coughing in the background.

Michele Liddle [00:43:20]:
Yeah, I apologise.

Liz Allan [00:43:22]:
No, no, no, no, we're doing this.

Michele Liddle [00:43:25]:
It's just that if we didn't do it now, it would never happen because we are so busy.

Liz Allan [00:43:30]:
Exactly, exactly. You know, I suppose I'm very much into business improvement. You know that I banged the business improvement drum, don't I? I've done it for a long time, and people, not people, don't always understand the, you know, what it, what it's all about. When it comes down to it, we sort of, we realised, didn't we, that, that there's a big thing around data.

Michele Liddle [00:44:01]:
Yeah. In the sector they say what is it? Data is king. Is that what they say?

Liz Allan [00:44:07]:
Yeah, even in business improvement, it's king because actually, if you don't have data, you can't prove anything.

Michele Liddle [00:44:15]:
You know, weirdly, in the paranormal sector, even, you know, we use things like that. We record stuff and gather evidence. You know, even if it's like nothing happened, we know that nothing happened there. It's all evidence, isn't it? And that's how you lay the foundation for things. I think it's everywhere. It exists, it's important and actually, but.

Liz Allan [00:44:42]:
In business, there are a few things that aren't there, aren't there? And this, there's something that I, I just, I think. And I know you earlier on, you were saying you don't like people, but you recognise the need to kind of get people on board and listen to them. Yeah, we both do.

Michele Liddle [00:45:02]:
Yeah. I sound like such an. When I say I don't like people. It's an autism thing. Okay.

Liz Allan [00:45:12]:
You know, you say that, and I always tell you off for saying it.

Michele Liddle [00:45:15]:
Yeah.

Liz Allan [00:45:15]:
I'm like, no, you don't. It's not that you don't like people; you find it time-consuming.

Michele Liddle [00:45:19]:
I think anyone who has met me knows that I am a very friendly person. It's just that I'm not an asshole now. I can sometimes be like that, you know, we're all human, but.

Liz Allan [00:45:35]:
If we go back to all the stuff that we've been doing, we work well together because we do challenge each other, don't we?

Michele Liddle [00:45:41]:
Yeah, yeah, definitely. Yeah. You know, some days it's more challenging than others, but I think anyone who works together on a long-term basis knows that.

Liz Allan [00:45:54]:
But it's, but it's coming together and kind of going okay. What we were doing isn't kind of going down the way we were, the kind of, the way we were expecting it to go down, but actually if we do it this way and that's kind of where.

Michele Liddle [00:46:10]:
Yeah, I mean, we had to basically use your continuous improvement skills to re. Change what we were doing. Because it wasn't working. Yeah.

Liz Allan [00:46:20]:
And you know what? In some way,s I think it was, it, it's, it wasn't, it wasn't the right time, you know. Yeah, possibly that we were doing, you know, we were doing all right actually. But it gets to a point where you kind of go, is it kind of banging your head against a brick wall, you know, to try and get people to, to sort of listen. So it's been a bit of a year of peaks and troughs, hasn't it?

Michele Liddle [00:46:47]:
Yeah, definitely.

Liz Allan [00:46:48]:
We both, we've both kind of been, been on those peaks and troughs and I've kind of thought, my God, what. And changed a few things because I was doing some other contracting work as well. And that's because that's the other thing, because we're both neur. Neurodivergent. You end up putting in, in the, you know, you end up doing lots of different stuff. So I was working on some NHS improvement work with GPs, which I had been doing since, like, 2022, you know, and I was also what we call an endpoint assessor for apprenticeships for improvement apprenticeships. And those have kind of disappeared this year.

Michele Liddle [00:47:26]:
Yeah.

Liz Allan [00:47:26]:
One was out of choice. Well, both of them, really. Just because it felt like you've. I've got to concentrate on. On this. Because you end up slicing yourself, too. Too thinly.

Michele Liddle [00:47:37]:
Yeah.

Liz Allan [00:47:37]:
You know, and you. You have got. We've got. We have to be careful, even if you're neurodivergent or not. If you end up slicing yourself too thinly. And it gets to that stage where, yeah, we both became a bit burnt out, I think.

Michele Liddle [00:47:49]:
Yeah, we experienced burnout, probably worse than what a normal person would experience.

Liz Allan [00:47:54]:
And I think whatever normal is.

Michele Liddle [00:47:57]:
Yeah. Yeah. I think that most, like, people, when they were in a work job or whatever, would be like, oh, I feel like it's time to take a day off or I'll put in some holiday and I'll go to Spain or whatever. Whereas we are, like. We don't actually have that concept in our head of, like, take some time off. It's just boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, until we've done what we said we were going to do. I mean, sometimes, like, we set ourselves at what we're going to do and then we find about 20 million other things to do before we get to that to do. But we will still get that done at some point, whether it be six years down the line or, you know, six minutes.

Michele Liddle [00:48:38]:
It will happen eventually, but we don't have. Unless. I mean, I know personally that if I didn't have my husband here to tell me, like, to take a break, to have lunch, to have dinner, whatever, I just wouldn't do it because I'd constantly be sitting here until I'd done my to-do list.

Liz Allan [00:48:55]:
Yeah.

Michele Liddle [00:48:57]:
And done about 600 other things. But we don't have that. Like, you know, we're tired. We need to go to Spain for a week to recoup. It's.

Liz Allan [00:49:07]:
Even when I went to. Even when I did go to Spain to recoup, I was still doing stuff, and we were still driving. This is. My husband and I were driving, like, oh, God, what was it now? About 300 miles a day between destinations.

Liz Allan [00:49:25]:
So, yeah, it's. It's. Yeah, we're always. We're always pushing ourselves.

Michele Liddle [00:49:31]:
Yeah. I mean, we've had situations where I've literally texted you while you're on holiday to say, please put your laptop down. Yeah, I will, I will message Rich and tell him to chuck your phone out the window.

Liz Allan [00:49:45]:
Yeah, it's you now. I'm going like, you're now using your hobby on the weekends, aren't you?

Michele Liddle [00:49:50]:
Yeah.

Liz Allan [00:49:50]:
Are you?

Michele Liddle [00:49:50]:
Actually, I think, yeah. I did that when you had your operation, and I was like, I will tell James to come in there and take your phone and throw it out the window.

Liz Allan [00:50:03]:
That was April, folks. Yeah, on my Achilles.

Michele Liddle [00:50:07]:
Yeah.

Liz Allan [00:50:07]:
So, yeah, I wasn't supposed to be working.

Michele Liddle [00:50:09]:
I was meant to be making sure that Liz, like, actually recovered from her operation.

Liz Allan [00:50:15]:
So we do kind of work. We really complement one another in that way.

Michele Liddle [00:50:19]:
Yeah, definitely.

Liz Allan [00:50:21]:
Sometimes when we're both kind of a bit frazzled, then it's. It's not. It's like any kind of working relationship. It's not 100% all the time. But I think actually we both. We are really. I mean, the age gap between us is just massive, isn't it?

Michele Liddle [00:50:35]:
Yeah.

Liz Allan [00:50:36]:
It's hilarious, really.

Michele Liddle [00:50:37]:
Yeah.

Liz Allan [00:50:38]:
But it feels like you're. I'm sorry. It feels like you're my kid's sister.

Michele Liddle [00:50:43]:
That you never wanted, but you got lumbered with.

Liz Allan [00:50:47]:
I wasn't. We just know each other, you know. We know each other really well, don't we?

Michele Liddle [00:50:55]:
Yeah.

Liz Allan [00:50:55]:
And I.

Michele Liddle [00:50:55]:
And.

Liz Allan [00:50:56]:
And actually, because there are times when I do say stuff to you and you're kind of like, I could tell you, like, James, my son. And I'm like, she won't listen to that. She's just.

Michele Liddle [00:51:04]:
There's no. When I, like, shut down. Yeah. And I'm just. And you're like, you're not listening, are you?

Liz Allan [00:51:09]:
And I'm like, yeah, yeah, like, no.

Michele Liddle [00:51:12]:
Because I can't repeat the last 10 things you said. But, yeah, I am listening. I think it's because, like, when we started working together, I had just. No, my mum had gone into care, hadn't she? She hadn't actually passed away yet. But I lost my mum when I first started working with you, and you'd lost your parents. So you helped me navigate through that, and then, like, moving. You helped me navigate through that change. And, you know, you've gone through, like, the operations and your diagnosis, and then I've gone through my diagnosis.

Michele Liddle [00:51:50]:
And so I think we've done a lot of, like, learning ourselves about ourselves, but we've also learned a lot about each other and how we work, and like, I know certain things, like when to approach you or when you're having a bit of an off day. You know, when I'm having a bit of an off day. So we've kind of also learned how to work differently because of that, because you can't be doing certain things when you're in that frame of mind as well, because you're like literally pushing yourself against a brick wall, and it's going to get worse. So, like, I know for me personally that if I'm having a bad neuro spicy day, I will do things like create the podcast graphics because I can do that without, like, putting too much of myself into it. It's not so much that I don't put my brain into it, because I obviously do, but it's like a processing thing. It's automatic. So I know I can go into my little creative bubble, which I've probably done since I was a kid. Like, the minute I draw or do anything creative, I shut myself off from the world, and I'm in that little zone.

Michele Liddle [00:53:06]:
So that's what I do on my bad days. And I know that you do, you know, your own thing on your bad days as well. And we've kind of learned that do the work when you're in the right place to do the work, because if not, you're only like half assing it.

Liz Allan [00:53:21]:
It's very true.

Michele Liddle [00:53:23]:
Yeah. Important lesson for everyone out there. Yeah.

Liz Allan [00:53:28]:
And actually, I would say that understanding your own, our own neurodivergence, as you said, is really important because many more people are neurodivergent than I ever thought. And I know I shouldn't. Like my son was saying, yeah, but you can't go around just saying to everybody you're neurodivergent. I'm like, yeah, but I can't see it. It's like, you know, seeing something you can't unsee. I can't, I can't. You can't see it. And I don't just see, just go around going, excuse me, tapping somebody on the show you knew about diversion.

Liz Allan [00:54:05]:
Somebody's gonna say or be listening or watching this. Going, yeah, you do.

Michele Liddle [00:54:09]:
Yeah. You literally said it's me the other day.

Liz Allan [00:54:12]:
Don't mean to, you know, I suppose, I suppose I've gone through the full understanding of what it is and then coming out the other side to go, actually, we don't all need to be in these separate pots or boxes. It's just the way our brain works. And you've just got to be able to understand yourself a little bit.

Michele Liddle [00:54:34]:
Yeah.

Liz Allan [00:54:34]:
Look a bit inside and say kind of like, so why do I? Oh, okay, so I've got an answer. I do that because of this. And.

Michele Liddle [00:54:41]:
And.

Liz Allan [00:54:41]:
And it helps in some ways. Yes. We said it. You go through that kind of grief process, don't you? But on the other side, it's. It, in a way, is quite validating.

Michele Liddle [00:54:50]:
Yeah. Yeah, I would say so. Yeah. Once you get over the. I don't know, I think I found what was worse is the lead-up to it? Because I think I even said to you, like, what if I have this diagnosis meeting and they just tell me that I've made it all up in my head.

Liz Allan [00:55:07]:
Yeah.

Michele Liddle [00:55:09]:
But, I mean, luckily they didn't. Although when I did have my autistic one, my autism one, I said they were like. Because they always ask you, like, how you feel about it, and do you have any questions? And I said, oh, well, I think I kind of knew, but I was also a little bit concerned you might tell me I'm crazy. And I actually had a psychiatrist who had a little bit of a sense of humour because he went, oh, yeah, sorry, we forgot to tell you that part. And I was like, I'm not even sure if that's funny. I was like. I just sat there for a minute. I was like, oh, hang on, what are you about to tell me now? But, yeah, that was quite amusing.

Michele Liddle [00:55:48]:
I was like, oh, it's nice to have somebody with a sense of humour. But, yeah, I think I found the getting. But then there is. Yeah, there's like that weird anticipation beforehand. Then there's the actual them telling it to you, because, like, you're having somebody actually say it out loud to you. That's the validating part that you're kind of not gone through this whole process of waiting to then be told. Like, now you've just got, like, borderline personality disorder or something else, which, you know, isn't a bad thing, because then you would know that you have something else. But for me, it was like, what if they just say, I've just made it all up, and you know.

Michele Liddle [00:56:29]:
But then afterwards, you go through that little grieving process of like, well, what could I have done? Like, could I have gone to university? Because somebody had told me, you know, that it's okay, I learn in a different way. Or having somebody sit with me in lessons to make sure I, like, paid a bit more attention than staring out of the window, you know, all those different things. And even, like, your family dynamic as well. I know we've spoken about this quite a lot. Is that, like, yeah, parents, like, I know, for me, my parents just seem to think that I was just doing or playing up all the time. But it wasn't. It was more. That was how I saw that I could get attention.

Michele Liddle [00:57:11]:
But they didn't kind of recognise that because it wasn't just discussed. Nobody mentioned it. Nobody thought that girls in their 80s could have had ADHD or whatever. So, yeah, it's been a wild ride. But I think you're right in saying that you do get some validation and that you also get a chance to. To, like, find out about yourself more, and you get to. Yeah, if you want to. Yes.

Michele Liddle [00:57:36]:
I mean, some people won't. They're just, you know, that is what it is. We can't force people to do it. But, you know, we've done a lot of. Yeah, we've done a lot of healing around it. We've still got loads to do around it. But, like, your aspects of it aren't the same as my aspects of it. But in a weird way, that kind of works because mine sort of complements yours and, you know, vice versa.

Michele Liddle [00:58:04]:
So, yeah, it's been an interesting ride.

Liz Allan [00:58:07]:
It has. And I suppose I've not had an autism diagnosis as well, but Michelle knows that. So I did a. I did an autism qualification. This is another one of the things I did this year that people don't know about, really. I did an autism qualification this year, equivalent to a GCSE. I kind of signed up to it without realising how in-depth it was, and I was like, oh, okay, I'll be working weekends on that one. Which I was.

Liz Allan [00:58:34]:
And going through it. A lot of the overlap between autism and ADHD is. Is just so. You just wouldn't believe it, you know, and I kind of looked at it and thought, oh, my God, yeah, I've got traits of autism as well in here, you know, just. Just getting that. Having that understanding and. And making peace with it as well. You know, it's one of those.

Liz Allan [00:58:58]:
One of those things, kind of like learning a bit and kind of going, okay, do I want a diagnosis for it? Don't know. Not sure at the moment. I'm quite happy, you know, with where I am. I understand it, and actually it helps me to understand my family, the wider family, and, you know, kind of friends and things like that. And, yeah, just. It's real. It's a real learning curve.

Liz Allan [00:59:25]:
And I just think it's just interesting to find out about. And I may be doing some. Some work with the neurodivergence, as I am actually a trustee of a neurodivergence charity.

Michele Liddle [00:59:35]:
You are?

Liz Allan [00:59:35]:
Yeah. As well, a chap up in Scotland has called Iain Kinney. He's set up a neurodivergence charity called Neuro AI Help. And I'm hoping to work, do some, maybe some strategy or even some training work with a neurodivergence charity over in Cardiff in the new year, as well as all the other stuff. So, yes, just said trying not slice myself too thinly, but, you know, it'll go whichever direction it needs to go in.

Michele Liddle [01:00:10]:
Yeah. And I think that's what we've also learned this year, like what I was saying before, like, we started the year with one idea and then it, like, went into something. I was not having expectations around it that the more you do this work on yourself, and you, like, learn about things, you learn about other interests, and you learn about your strengths and your weaknesses. So, like, your. Your massive strength is helping people. And, you know, that's why you do the continuous improvement stuff. That's why you, you know, help. I mean, one thing I will say about you is you will help anyone and probably to your own detriment sometimes, but that's who you are.

Michele Liddle [01:00:50]:
That's, you know, I. No one can change that about you because that is who you are. You will just help anyone. And that's a great thing to be like, you know, I don't like people, so I don't help people. I do help people. Yeah. I. I help the dead, basically, mainly, most of the time.

Michele Liddle [01:01:16]:
Yeah. Yeah. But you. I think that's what you. Why do you go down these different avenues is because it involves your main skill, which is helping people. Like, you can see that what we always say about you is that you see things differently. Like, you see the bigger picture, and you see things before they happen. And that is basically like with the AI neurodivergent thing, we both know, because we use AI to help us with our neurodivergence,e because it is helpful for people like us.

Michele Liddle [01:01:56]:
Massively helpful. In fact, it's a game-changer because I don't. It's not that I don't know how to function without it, that would be wrong to say. But for me especially, there are certain things, like I sometimes don't know how to read an email properly. Like, I can't understand the sort of. The context behind it. So sometimes I have to take that email and be like, what are they actually trying to tell me in this email? Like, are they being funny with me? Or. Yeah, is, you know, how do I then respond to this without me going down a Neurodivergent tantrum or, you know.

Michele Liddle [01:02:41]:
Yeah. So it's, you know, it helps with things like that because I could just. Without that, I would probably like go off and cry for 10 minutes or, you know.

Liz Allan [01:02:55]:
Yeah.

Michele Liddle [01:02:55]:
Not respond to it.

Liz Allan [01:02:57]:
What I'm into is how I'm interpreting this because. Yeah, that's the thing about the written, written messages, isn't it? That you can interpret written things.

Michele Liddle [01:03:05]:
Yeah. Because they don't have a tone behind them or a person. So it is hard. So AI does make things like that easier. So. And there are loads of other benefits that I could talk about with AI, you know, but it is like anything, it's who uses it and why they're using it.

Liz Allan [01:03:24]:
Very true.

Michele Liddle [01:03:26]:
You know, with great power comes great responsibility and all that jazz. I know. Yeah. Some superhero thing.

Liz Allan [01:03:38]:
I mean.

Michele Liddle [01:03:39]:
Yeah. Just.

Liz Allan [01:03:40]:
Just kind of finishing off then, if like you said, I think, I think it's right, I think not to have too many kind of expectations, but, but being positive and, and seeing the, the kind of. The sector is as a, you know, kind of the, the EV charging and the EV sector or you know, kind of sustainability in. In future, it feels to me like more people are kind of getting on board with it and, and sort of recognizing that. That even if there is a bit of negative rhetoric coming from behind it, they're actually seeing through what that crap is. Do you know what I mean? Actually, who's saying, who's actually saying it, and why are they saying it?

Michele Liddle [01:04:26]:
Yeah, there's a lot more like transparency around it, I think. And there's be more transparency coming in 2026, but you have to wait for that.

Liz Allan [01:04:38]:
Well, there is more, definitely more.

Michele Liddle [01:04:40]:
So what I'm saying. Wink, nudge, nudge. Can't wink. That probably looked really weird then because I was trying to wink, and I realised I can't wink. Yeah. So listeners. Yeah, the listeners will be grateful they didn't see that. People watching.

Michele Liddle [01:04:57]:
I apologize.

Liz Allan [01:04:58]:
And I look like I have something in my eye, but no, I just.

Michele Liddle [01:05:02]:
Looks like I was a bit nervous.

Liz Allan [01:05:05]:
It's just a tick.

Michele Liddle [01:05:06]:
Yeah.

Liz Allan [01:05:06]:
But no, this, this is why we've been working together for so long, and you know, we just want people to, to be able to see what's really there and, and the good things that are there, and that I want, I want people to know that we care.

Michele Liddle [01:05:28]:
Yeah. Yeah. Because I mean, we've had this discussion. I won't go into obviously like the details, but we've had this discussion recently about the problem with. It's not really a problem. The language that is used a lot is very negative, and people are always very quick to be negative about stuff. But I think if you come from the positive side, you could actually maybe solve more problems. Yeah.

Michele Liddle [01:06:01]:
Because you've got that different approach. And I think that's what we're trying to do. We're trying to approach things differently.

Liz Allan [01:06:09]:
Pointing fingers and going, you. Yeah, yeah.

Michele Liddle [01:06:12]:
Because at the end of the day, what does that actually do other than make people feel bad?

Liz Allan [01:06:18]:
Yeah. The same as you. Us having that pointed at a finger pointed at us and going, yeah, you don't really care, do you?

Michele Liddle [01:06:25]:
Yeah.

Liz Allan [01:06:26]:
When actually we really, really, really do. So, yeah, our positive people really are.

Michele Liddle [01:06:32]:
Yeah.

Liz Allan [01:06:33]:
You know, so actually flipping it and saying, you know what, let's just go with that positive, positive aspect. People want to help with transparency. We want to make things better.

Michele Liddle [01:06:46]:
Yeah.

Liz Allan [01:06:47]:
We're creating a data platform to help do that.

Michele Liddle [01:06:50]:
Yeah, yeah, leave it at that. But I will say that we are also going to use that in our marketing because marketing is a very. There's always that thing with marketing, isn't there? The, like, the polarising statements are the ones that really hook people in and get them. But yeah, that does work. But there are also different ways to do it where you can actually, like, you know, be positive and human. I think I actually went to a. It was last week, wasn't it, a webinar about the marketing trends for 2026. And they were basically saying that one of them was saying that people are going to want that human connection.

Michele Liddle [01:07:35]:
We're already starting to kind of see it, but it is really going to be massive in 2026. So we will be bringing that to our new company, and you will see us more often.

Liz Allan [01:07:48]:
On our socials because we've been quite quiet lately, haven't we?

Michele Liddle [01:07:52]:
We have, yeah. But we've been building foundations, haven't we, for. Yeah.

Liz Allan [01:07:57]:
And also partly because we've been on that tumultuous journey this year. It's kind of been like riding the rapids.

Michele Liddle [01:08:05]:
Yeah. If it were a ride at Disneyland, I wouldn't recommend it. Yeah.

Liz Allan [01:08:10]:
It's really been up and down, hasn't it? But coming out, hopefully, definitely coming out the other side, you will. Well, definitely coming out the other side. I'm going to be. Not going to be. I'm going to be positive.

Michele Liddle [01:08:20]:
You literally just said we're really positive people.

Liz Allan [01:08:24]:
Well, yeah, but it's always that kind of inner critic that, you know, that's a neurodivergence.

Michele Liddle [01:08:29]:
It is, yeah.

Liz Allan [01:08:31]:
That comes out and goes, yes, but you can't sound like that because you sound too arrogant then.

Michele Liddle [01:08:35]:
Yeah, I mean, rain it in.

Liz Allan [01:08:37]:
Come on. But no, we will. We are. You will see some positive sides and positive messaging.

Michele Liddle [01:08:45]:
Yeah.

Liz Allan [01:08:45]:
Because we want to help. And that's what it's about.

Michele Liddle [01:08:48]:
That is what it's about. Yeah, definitely. It's 2026 is definitely going to be a more positive spin on things.

Liz Allan [01:09:00]:
Well, but listen, thank you.

Michele Liddle [01:09:03]:
We've.

Liz Allan [01:09:03]:
I can't believe this is like, you know, this has been a really lovely, lovely kind of episode for me to have you and just. Just the two of us talking like this. I hope people have now recognised that you're no longer behind the scenes. You're not going to be behind the scenes even if. Even if you say you don't like people, which is a right load of.

Michele Liddle [01:09:29]:
Because literally, I can hear everyone I've met, like, the events and stuff, being like. She was really lovely when I spoke to her, though. She was really chatty. She didn't shut up. What's she talking about?

Liz Allan [01:09:39]:
Yeah, you just didn't see her when she went home and went, oh, my God, I've spoken to so many people.

Michele Liddle [01:09:44]:
Yeah, like. Like, not even finishing my dinner, being like, I'm just gonna go to bed.

Liz Allan [01:09:51]:
Exactly. And you've managed. You've managed a whole episode with a dodgy voice and not feeling brilliant. But actually, I think people have learned a hell of a lot about you during the episode.

Michele Liddle [01:10:04]:
Hopefully. I mean, I am going to be posting more on LinkedIn next year, but I think that I. Because I spend so much time, obviously, doing your social media, and because before it was like you needing to be the voice of the company, now it's kind of both of us being the voice of the company, so I'm gonna have to speak up a little bit more.

Liz Allan [01:10:29]:
You are?

Michele Liddle [01:10:30]:
I'm not sure everyone's ready for my opinions, but I'm sure we'll see.

Liz Allan [01:10:36]:
I'm sure they all manage it.

Michele Liddle [01:10:38]:
Yeah, well, they're gonna have to, because. Yeah, don't like it. Just scroll on by. That's what I say.

Liz Allan [01:10:47]:
Oh, listen, just on that note, I'm gonna say thank you, darling. It's been. It's been brilliant chat to you for our Christmas episode.

Michele Liddle [01:10:56]:
Yeah. Merry Christmas, Happy New Year, Happy Hola, Feliz Navidad, and all that.

Liz Allan [01:11:01]:
Hopefully, everybody gets to actually see it. So, yes, happy Christmas to everybody. And we haven't got a hat on, but Michele's already got the socials with our hats on.

Michele Liddle [01:11:09]:
Yeah, we have hats on the socials. I'm not a hat person. I look weird in a hat. It's like dressing up an egg.

Liz Allan [01:11:18]:
Oh, my God. Yeah. I look a bit like a pickled person, you know?

Michele Liddle [01:11:21]:
But anyway, yeah, I don't know how some people pull off hats.

Liz Allan [01:11:26]:
Some people look brilliant in hats.

Michele Liddle [01:11:27]:
I just thought because Ron Godfrey, he always looks good in a hat, doesn't he? He's a hat person in a hat. He's a hat person.

Liz Allan [01:11:34]:
He is.

Michele Liddle [01:11:35]:
We love you, Ron.

Liz Allan [01:11:36]:
Listening. We love you. Yes.

Michele Liddle [01:11:38]:
We miss you, Ron.

Liz Allan [01:11:40]:
I want to see you again, Ron. Right, on that note, I'm going to say hey to everybody. Thank you for watching and listening. We both hope you have a really, really happy Christmas and a wonderful New Year.

Michele Liddle [01:11:55]:
Yeah.

Liz Allan [01:11:56]:
Enjoy a little bit of R and R with whoever or wherever you are, you know, however you're doing it and just.

Michele Liddle [01:12:03]:
We will see you read some ghost stories.

Liz Allan [01:12:07]:
Find her, find her on Shell's Spooky Stories. I will share the link in the show notes as well. You can share. You can have a check out of her.

Michele Liddle [01:12:15]:
Spooky stuff, spooky stuff.

Liz Allan [01:12:18]:
But please just. Yeah, subscribe to Electric Evolution. Have a look at us. And yeah, thank you very much for watching, listening, and we will see you very soon.

Michele Liddle [01:12:29]:
Like, share, subscribe, comment. Tell us what you're doing for Christmas.

Liz Allan [01:12:33]:
She's there, she's there.

Michele Liddle [01:12:35]:
Are you going away? Tell us where you're going. Just put something in the comments.

Liz Allan [01:12:39]:
Just do anything. Yeah, just tell us. That'd be great.

Michele Liddle [01:12:43]:
Unless it's negative. Don't do that. It's not nice.

Liz Allan [01:12:46]:
Keep negative stuff there. Thank you, everyone.

Michele Liddle [01:12:51]:
Thank you.

Liz Allan [01:12:51]:
Bye-bye, bye-bye.