Episode 177: Liz Allan and Leon Gomez - Making EV Procurement Work for a Growing Market.

Episode 177: Liz Allan and Leon Gomez - Making EV Procurement Work for a Growing Market. 

We're delighted to have ProcureEV as the sponsor for this episode of Electric Evolution. They work with organisations across the EV charging and electrification sector to simplify procurement and help innovative businesses engage more effectively with complex processes. 

Liz Allan is joined by Leon Gomez, Managing Director of ProcurEV. They unpack why good EV procurement is about far more than frameworks, contracts, and ticking boxes.

Leon shares his personal journey from logistics and procurement into the EV and energy space, and how those experiences shaped his decision to launch Procure EV. 

Together, they explore why EV charging procurement cannot be treated like traditional infrastructure buying. Liz and Leon also discuss the risks of rigid processes in a fast-moving market, the importance of involving operations and end users early, and why understanding the full journey, from charger design and installation through to driver experience, is critical to long-term success.

The conversation also touches on bid readiness, the hidden barriers that often stop SMEs from winning tenders, and how better preparation and clearer storytelling can transform outcomes. Leon explains how procurement, bidding, engineering, and customer experience must work together if the UK is to build a reliable, trusted charging infrastructure at pace.

Quote of the Episode: 
“EV procurement needs to be treated differently. This is a new industry, built by innovators, and if we don't adapt how we buy and collaborate, we risk slowing the whole transition.” – Leon Gomez

Leon Gomez Bio:
Leon Gomez is the Managing Director of Procure EV, a UK-based consultancy supporting organisations across EV charging, electrification, and energy infrastructure. With a background spanning logistics, procurement, bids and tenders, and large-scale energy projects, Leon brings an end-to-end understanding of how complex decisions are made and delivered. He is passionate about helping innovative SMEs navigate procurement barriers and strongly believes in collaboration, transparency, and people-centred decision-making in the transition to Net Zero. 

Leon Gomez Links:
Website: https://www.procurev.co.uk
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/leon-gomez-0124b586?

Transcript

Liz Allan  [00:00:00]:
Welcome to Electric Evolution with Liz Allan. We're delighted to welcome ProcurEV as a sponsor for this episode. They're a consultancy supporting organisations across the EV charging and electrification sector by bringing clarity and confidence to procurement bids and tenders. In this episode, I'm joined by Managing Director and founder Leon Gomez for a thoughtful and practical conversation about why EV procurement needs to evolve alongside the sector and how collaboration, delivery, and people-centred decision-making are essential to building better charging outcomes. If you enjoy this episode, don't forget to follow and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. 

Liz Allan [00:00:35]:

Hi everybody, and welcome back to another episode of Electric Evolution. I have a wonderful guy with me today, Leon Gomez, who's the Managing Director of Procure ev. Leon, we've known each other for a little while now.

Liz Allan  [00:00:52]:
It's so nice to actually finally be able to record this with you. Welcome.

Leon Gomez [00:00:57]:
I know it's been a journey. The journey with kids is always the case. Illness, wind, broadband, you name it, we got there.

Liz Allan  [00:01:06]:
There is, there's been the whole. Yeah, there's been that whole broadband connection up to, you know, up to Scotland, and we probably could have done better having a couple of baked bean tins and a piece of string at one point.

Leon Gomez [00:01:19]:
We've got electricity now here, though, so it's all good.

Liz Allan  [00:01:24]:
So, because I'm from Yorkshire and that's what we used to have, of course, you know. So let's, let's, let's start off by talking a little bit about your background and what, you know, what you did before start you setting up ProcurEV. Let's start where you live in the country, for a start.

Leon Gomez [00:01:48]:
Yeah. So part of the reason for the crap broadband is that I live in the sticks, essentially. So I live on the west coast of Scotland, a lovely area 40 minutes from Glasgow, surrounded by forests, trees, and a castle, which is great. But what doesn't help with the big mountains is the signal, essentially. But this is where I'm born and bred. Apart from the name, Dad is from South America, and Mum is from Scotland. The background is India and Portugal, would you believe? So, about my mixed bag. So, yeah, we were covered in charges in Scotland, so we're all.

Leon Gomez [00:02:26]:
It fits nicely with what I want to achieve.

Liz Allan  [00:02:32]:
And so what, what have you? Just give us a little bit of background about what you've been doing, you know, in your working life.

Leon Gomez [00:02:40]:
Yeah. So it's a bit of a weird, a very strange one. So if I can. I'll rewind right back to school. I don't know how many people do that. But I'll do it for a laugh. So the only thing I really enjoyed has always been cars. But you can't do a subject called 'cars'.

Leon Gomez [00:02:57]:
So the next thing I enjoyed was music. Didn't want to play the piano; my mum really wanted me to, so I played the drums and guitar instead. But the other thing was following my dad's footsteps with languages, studying languages, going to United French and Spanish and Italian and then, as is always the case, you want to be a teacher. Had a go at that. Much like Belinda mentioned in our podcast the other day. She lasted a year; I lasted a few weeks. It was in Paris. I taught kids, and I knew at that point I'd been doing it on and off for about six weeks, probably about six months, but it wasn't for me.

Leon Gomez [00:03:37]:
So went into logistics, fell into that, did some retail management for a large retailer, and was a food store manager. There again, that wasn't for me. So, eventually, going into logistics was working with a forklift truck company. Enjoyed it was almost cars, but not quite so. But in logistics, I was getting a bit bored because you can only manage so many networks. I was managing a dealer network across French-, Spanish-, and Italian-speaking countries, and it was kind of, sort of, that you either wanted to manage a team of 10 or 12 people. And I do love people, I just don't really like managing them. So I just wondered if there was a better way.

Leon Gomez [00:04:21]:
One of my passions is actually saving money, which is a bit boring, but I wondered if there is a career in that? And found out there was procurement. I took a leap of faith and went into a procurement role for a startup company. They went pop. This is a run theme here after a year, and then thankfully SSE came to the rescue, and I was there for a good six, seven years working bizarrely on their metering retail and eventually renewables and EV side. And then kind of brings me to where I am today. I mean there's a, there's a passion that kind of again after Repeat Belinda is that cars? Since my grandfather was a Fiat salesman many, many years ago and brought us into the limelight with the background of cars, classic cars, and rally. My uncle and I just, I fell in love with cars a very, very early age and had to really had a drive to be, pardon the pun, to be involved in some way, shape or form. SSE being energy, it was not a kind of car.

Leon Gomez [00:05:34]:
But then all of a sudden there was a link to energy and cars with electric cars, which kind of came to my, came to light for me in around about 2012, before SSE, actually, when I did a presentation on Tesla, some whack job from Scotland is doing this presentation on a car company. People were like, 'Who is this guy?' Driverless cars, autonomous tech for an absolute nutter. And then went to see if there was an opportunity there, walking in the front doors of SSE. Luckily, there was charging. You probably remember my Electric Avenue project. They had a setup there at the front entrance of the Glasgow office where you could charge a car and park in the city centre for free. That was so I was saving money, saving the planet, and cars were involved with energy. I was like oh my God.

Leon Gomez [00:06:25]:
Test drove a Tesla, which we couldn't afford. But I was thinking this is the future probably quite like John had mentioned this podcast the other week a couple of years ago was going from an old car. Yeah, going from an old car to this electric. Oh my God. That's just like a different. It's like a spaceship. So we, we ended up dream. Mine was always my mum and dad had extended the house, so we had always had this thing in my head about how much I suck from the sun.

Leon Gomez [00:07:04]:
Basically, solar panels and a battery. But all this tech is like we talked about adhd, kind of something new like Squirrel. So for me it was the solar, the battery, and the car's plug-in, which is cheap, saves money and extends the house. So we bought a 70-mile range EV, but we had to do 70 to 80 miles a day. Crazy. But it worked. And then brings me today in a roundabout sort of way to where I am today with Procure ev. So yeah, that's a very long introduction, but that's trying to keep it as short as possible.

Liz Allan  [00:07:45]:
That's okay, I don't mind very long introductions. That works, that works well for me. All of, all of your background so far you've had cars, energy, being excited by cars and energy and all that kind of stuff. But, but can you just give us a little bit of background on why ProcurEV? What, what started this kind of will and want to, for you to you know, move into being self employed was working for a big, a big energy provider and doing lots of stuff there. What was it that made you set up your own business?

Leon Gomez [00:08:25]:
Probably there are a couple of things I would say, so two things would be when I was at SSC working with their head of fleet zero emissions fleet. We got on very well. Wanted to really drive the transition, which, as most people know, a cancellation or a private large corporation is very, very difficult to do something quickly. So that with the DHD didn't sit right.

Liz Allan  [00:08:50]:
Yep.

Leon Gomez [00:08:51]:
The second thing was that he left, and it just happened to be an opportunity. I remember very clearly speaking with my dad at the front in the driveway about this opportunity with this company I've never heard of, or the kind of rumblings Volta trucks to head up the bids and tender division. Now, I'd had about a year's experience with bids and tenders before at the forklift truck company. Thought, wait a minute, so I'm almost at cars. A manufacturer wants to employ me to essentially head up the bids and tender division with someone else from procurement, with whom we got on amazingly well, and they're giving me more money to do something I want to do. All right, then, where do I sign? Knowing it was a startup, that was a big risk, and we'll come to that later. So inevitably, unfortunately, after 30 months,s it did go pop. But that experience was too good to miss.

Leon Gomez [00:09:46]:
The reason after that was that going through redundancy again. SSE got a phone call from someone else, funnily enough, who I'd employed as a temp resource contractor at SSE. Great relationship for an opportunity to do contracting. And I thought this is a different way of working where I can make a meaningful difference in a short time frame to something or someone, help a project, improve things, add value and then pick something else, probably the whole ADH thing. But in that short space of time, I can sort of try and shine bright and bring value to someone or something, which really hits the nail on the head. And then just naturally, that contract came to an end. But within that time frame, I wanted to add value, set up a vehicle for a grid trial through Innovate UK through our small to medium company, which I always preferred working with because I felt there was a real passion and connection there. Helping small to medium businesses because they're still small enough that they want to make a difference and small enough that they can react, change, and adapt again.

Leon Gomez [00:10:52]:
I really, really clicked a button for me, and then the contracts came to an end. I thought as I was trying to push through EV positions in sse. Honestly, they're a fantastic company to work for, highly recommended. But the positions really never slowed, the big machine never came to fruition, and I've always thought about this. I've said to so many people in the office, I'm just going to do it. So I closed my eyes, and I jumped headfirst, and I thought, " I have to make this work, I have to try. If I Don't. I'll never forgive myself.

Leon Gomez [00:11:24]:
So lo and behold, a few months later I set up bizarrely, stupidly on the 31st of March this year. Can imagine what happened. ProcurEV was born, and then I got the tax person asking for a tax return. So you can have one if you like. I've earned absolutely nothing. Phone call after phone call, and I was fine. So here I am. Luckily, kind of over the years we probably know a lot of the same people.

Leon Gomez [00:11:55]:
One of my good contacts, they bizarrely installed my first charger PowerPoint almost 10 years ago. Kept in touch, we did presentations, kept turning up to the same events, kept speaking on energy saving trust, voluntary presentations and things and all of a sudden there we are sitting in the cafe talking about a potential job together. So you know, I think it's that important lesson in life, maybe for me, is like we were talking about earlier, a couple of things, probably people buy from people, pays to be nice. What goes around does absolutely come around, especially in a small industry where we need a collaborative approach to make a difference. You scratch my back, I'll scratch yours, sort of approach to things. Otherwise, we're not going to get anywhere with it. But that's how it was born again. I'm hoping that was short enough.

Leon Gomez [00:12:52]:
I'm always conscious of time. You know, it's like self-employed, you have to be a prisoner every minute.

Liz Allan  [00:13:02]:
But actually, and yes, it was, it was absolutely fine. Thank you. I was going to say it's not, it's not an easy jump is it? Going from being employed to then working for yourself? You know I don't, I think there's a lot of people maybe watching, listening who might not even want to go that route. But what I'll say is yes, it's flipping hard, but actually it is so worth it when it works out. You know, you can't get to say that you've started something from the grassroots and from nothing, come up with the ideas, started putting it together, you know, worked out what the products are, you know, started doing the marketing, etc. Etc. When it starts working it's, it's really hard but it does, it's, it's not, it's not an overnight, it's not an overnight thing is it? You know, but just so it can.

Leon Gomez [00:13:58]:
Being so rewarding, as you're saying, the reason for it, for me, was that I hadn't been incorporated all along, which is why the likes of small- to medium-sized businesses missed out. And I knew, especially in a new industry, that they would be the best people, probably for the job. But because the sausage machine of procurement or whatever mechanism we have for scoring says no, they don't get the contract and that. I've always struggled with that. It's because it's different in the new industry. It needs to be the government, private sector, companies, councils, everybody needs to think differently about EV and say, well, hang on, these establishments have bought into that, but these small to medium have built it. They're the ones that are going to make a difference. So that's the ones you need to engage.

Leon Gomez [00:14:45]:
They were talking earlier on about innovation from early on, getting involved with the project teams, getting involved and getting their hands on it, because they know how it works, they're inventing how it works. So that's where. That's the procure. EV said Ella Raison d' etre is to help those smaller companies in the bid tender process to get into the big stuff, because they should be there, they absolutely have to be. And for those companies that are contracting or buying stuff to appreciate, we need them as much as they need us, otherwise it's not going to work.

Liz Allan  [00:15:21]:
So let's talk about. You've kind of given. You've given a bit of an idea about what you're doing there, but what does? What does your daily life look like? What is your work? What is your, you know, what are you doing to provide that procurement expertise? What is that procurement expertise? Because not everybody knows, do they? They don't really know. Not everybody knows how procurement works. So. So you've kind of said a little bit about the nuts and bolts, but what are you doing to support companies then?

Leon Gomez [00:15:56]:
So one of the first things I would do to support small to medium companies, essentially most of the time, would be to take. We have the cost. So the first thing I look at is, you know, what are your pain points? That's a very. Probably. I apologize. I don't like cliches. Bizarrely, what are the bits that frustrate you? What are the annoying things? Every time you make a soup, are there hairs falling on it? Is there a way to do it differently? We always go back to food, but is there a way to solve that problem for you that can be fixed? Not just this time, but every time? So one of the first things I'll look at is like big cost items, you know, the 80- 20 rule. So 80% of your spends with 20% of suppliers and all that good stuff.

Leon Gomez [00:16:41]:
So what are those items? And then look at those, strip them down and say, well, is there a different way? So if all of a sudden you're looking at a cost of X, maybe you can bring that X cost down so you have more money available to invest it somewhere else or to go into some other innovative area and project or to market and add like Bill Linda does great work adding that product marketing element which then can grow the company and in turn you grow more sustainably. So it's to try and look at what are our costs, where can we make a difference and bring those costs down, where the quality and everything matches, because that's very important and the deliverables don't suffer and then allow us to grow more sustainably and so they don't become another startup victim, if that's the case, where they don't have any cash flow, is to try and maintain the cash flow. And so looking at the supply chain, first and foremost, I mean, can you, simple things like why shouldn't a small to medium company be able to fix price? Because they can. Quick phone call. Yeah, we'll do that. Because you've also got the new market entrants, again, like small to medium. Looking at those ones, they're absolutely, I wouldn't say desperate, but they're absolutely completely driven and with lots of money behind them to get into the UK or European markets. So it makes a lot of sense to invite these people in to get them to prove themselves, and actually, all of a sudden, you find out they're developing something else.

Leon Gomez [00:18:13]:
So there you've got another differentiator. Would they want to make a difference? So it's to try and flex that supply chain both ways in terms of cost, quality, deliverables, innovation, drive innovation where you can, that's one of the first things. And fixed pricing always helps maintain control and see where your project costs are going.

Liz Allan  [00:18:39]:
So how important is it when you're working with companies to get them all, all the departments and everybody in there to collaborate with one another? How important is that for you?

Leon Gomez [00:18:55]:
Absolutely key. I can give you a good example. So I think that's a good point, actually, because it's something that's probably missed. So, in procurement, their role is essentially to buy stuff. It's the kind of boring stuff. So hr, look after people, and they do a great job, otherwise it wouldn't work. But nobody likes them. Procurement, buy stuff until you spend too much money, so therefore nobody likes them.

Leon Gomez [00:19:15]:
There are lots of departments like that. But also, it's really an important role that we, yeah, bring everyone together. So, project management team, the first Thing I would do, project sse, whatever I am, is look at who we can get involved because at the end of the day, if you're going to get something signed off. Signed off, sorry, buy in, and it's going to work, you must inform all the key stakeholders. Otherwise, you know exactly what it was with your expertise, that you don't want any roadblocks. First of all, what are the potential roadblocks? A contract I placed years ago was a utilities contract funnel for SSE. And I was told from the offset there's one person in there that's going to be a problem. Turned out they were the biggest advocate.

Leon Gomez [00:19:59]:
It's like there's my challenge. So it's like get them on the phone call first, find out they were a procurement expert. They just wanted a bit of hands-on involvement. Great, take some of the work off me. Good experience, and all of a sudden, they were the person pushing or helping to implement the change. I crossed over other business units as an operational leader. So yeah, you must have all those finance leaders. Legal, it depends on the size of the company, but essentially, operations have to be in place.

Leon Gomez [00:20:30]:
Engineers need to be able to. If it's EV stuff how do they install? Is it simple to use your back office? Your IT is making sure it's an open-source type of equipment if that's what it is. Because otherwise you're going to have a block straight away. Everyone must be involved, and all of a sudden, they feel part of it, and before you know it, the change is through, and everybody's happy, hopefully.

Liz Allan  [00:20:56]:
But I was, we, we talked about things that, things that can be real challenges, didn't we? Because I was, I was saying that, that I've worked for big companies before and you get, you have issues where still where somebody from business development they, they'll go in and they'll, you know, they'll some and I'm not saying everybody please if you're listening in your business development, please don't take this the wrong way but some business development people promise the world but can't. The company can't necessarily deliver the world, you know, because. So do you see that still as a challenge where, where you've kind of, you know, because your business development and then you kind of go, you've got procurement starts getting involved, you know and, and you get to, you go to procurement and bid stages and things like that because you're selling something, somebody's buying that product, you know and no matter who's buying that product, you've got A procurement or a bid team involved in, in one side and the other side, haven't you, you know, depend on how it, how it all works. But do you see that as kind of, you know, like you're saying about collaboration, just still see that as a problem? Because then you've got the ops team that is delivering. Sometimes it just feels like that, that. And from an improvement point of view, from my side, I find that level of communication of what, what's going on actually by the time it's got to the ops team or it's gone through projects or, you know, it's like, what was this? What you've tried to sell here isn't what we can deliver. And then that's again, it's sort of collaboration and communication, isn't it?

Leon Gomez [00:22:49]:
100%. I mean, probably the best example would be at Volta Trucks. And I was kind of pretty much with, as I said, ex-colleague Steve and I heading up the bids and tenders division, were looking at the whole process. So we had a 15-minute sprint meeting. So we're preparing for a tender, for example, and the customer comes in. They said, we want these trucks straight away. You know, probably you can't, especially a startup, you probably can't do snow chains. That was one of the examples.

Leon Gomez [00:23:23]:
I can divulge now because they're gone for, let's say, Scandinavian Royal Mail. So we did get onto the framework, but not without a lot of blood, sweat and tears. And the reason was that we had so many project engineers and product experts to say, " Can we do this or not? Snow chains aren't designed. Right. Have you looked at these? Yes. So there was a timeline of when it'll be developed. So it's telling the full story of. Yeah, that would develop by March 26th.

Leon Gomez [00:23:56]:
Okay, now we have a story. Is that the case? And verifying it with someone else, the product experts. Yeah, but actually, if we go for this alternative, it's a bit quicker for the engineers, is that okay? Yes, it is. And this is meanwhile on a call when the blockers identify them at every meeting. Then we had the business development begin with yes, yes, yes, yes. Quite often, because they kind of have to get in the room. And that's. I get that, but it's like, let me check on that.

Leon Gomez [00:24:21]:
So it's like sometimes being privy to those conversations to go, well, hang on one minute. I appreciate what you're doing here, and I'm now in bed, but from a procurement point of view, a background like you say you need to think about, is that actually feasible? In that time frame or at all. So most that volta was feasible, it just hadn't been done yet. Because it was a bit of a yes project, isn't it? On the whole, we could do it all, but you need to give us time. So then that was product, engineering, design, and the business development kept up to speed. And then all of a sudden, you're looking at that package of, well, what on earth is that going to cost? We don't have the tooling, you don't have the process, we don't really have the materials yet. So it's a whole exercise about kind of like everything all at once and coordinating that approach through to your bid and making sure you meet the time frame. So essentially, you know, it's like if you've got a time frame of, let's say, for example, the deadline is the 25th of December, everything's due by the 12th, by the way, and you tell everyone that message and you manage expectations for the customer so that you are still.

Leon Gomez [00:25:30]:
Quite often, the case is you run into the wire, but at least you've built in some time and space for you as a bid manager to be able to tell that story and have everything together by that frame point. So, yeah, you have to collaborate and communicate. And I found that the example of this, Sprint meetings daily or biweekly, whatever, helps to push that message through and to make sure everyone was engaged and involved in the message. When they go back to those meetings with customers, it was fluid and also the truth. Otherwise, you're just digging a hole for yourself.

Liz Allan  [00:26:09]:
Do you know what? Do you know what? I just want to ask you a question because. Because the organisation that you work with and the title that you have depend on each other. So you've got, you've kind of. So, for example, in a local authority, you'll have a procurement team, and you'll also have the procurement team, you know, kind of in a. Say, for example, you've talked about EV charging before, haven't we? You have a procurement team there, or you might be the procurement person, but then you've got the, you've got kind of bids, so you've got, you know, you've got the bid team as well. Where does one stop? Where does one stop and the other one start? And, actually, is somebody in procurement? Can somebody in procurement also be part of the bid team? Because I've worked in contracts before, we'd be writing the contracts, do you know what I mean? But actually, we're all part of the commercial, so. So, where do you see that fine line of where one starts and the next one finishes?

Leon Gomez [00:27:15]:
Are you talking about within the same organisation, for example? Are you talking about? From my expertise?

Liz Allan  [00:27:21]:
Yeah, I suppose so. Well, I suppose from your expertise, but also, you know, just for other people to understand. Where do they all come in? Because of the different terminology across businesses. Where, where do you see them? So what is, what does procurement do in a local authority versus what does a bid team or a, you know, somebody who's in, you know, so what, what are they all different or are they all the same?

Leon Gomez [00:27:50]:
That's a good question. And probably the reason my involta trucks, my ex colleague and I, Stephen, were taken across to head up from Procurement Utilities to head up the bids division is that it was that Amazon outlook to say, well, what, what, what is the end goal working backwards. So if you think about it, I suppose, and this was the last few years, I've kind of learned this. I thought if I can understand the process end to end in this field of buying and selling stuff, then you should, by virtue of that experience, be able to go, well, this is a good, and thankfully we've just been successful and another big tender, because you should be able to say, well, this is a good answer. This is what procurement would want to se,e and all those terms and all that sort of stuff. So let's walk back the way. How do we build that into the bid? Maybe when you think about it in terms of a council or a company. Absolutely.

Leon Gomez [00:28:53]:
The bids and the procurement team, probably an SSE in the enterprise division, where they are selling charges out to public hubs and stuff. They do work very closely, interestingly, in there because, and that's just one example, because they are what they can deliver and what they can do is very much dependent on what could be procured essentially. And if they are going to put out a bid. Ideally, if you're going to put a bid, you want someone with procurement knowledge because otherwise it's just a sales pitch. But if you can do it in procurement, you're right, procurement lingo, try to avoid as many terms as you can or acronyms, but you can do it in procurement language in a certain way. It makes it a lot easier to manage, a lot easier to be, hopefully be more successful because you understand how to tick. So here's a list of what this is not a wish list. If you don't do this, you're not going to get on the framework.

Leon Gomez [00:29:51]:
Right, okay, make sure that's done. So yeah, it's very important that they're in the same organisation. Absolutely. Should talk to one another, because I don't think you can have one without the other, really. But they probably don't. How many organisations work alongside or in conjunction with? Which makes it difficult. Yeah.

Liz Allan  [00:30:15]:
And that's. And that's where, you know, as I say, on the improvement side, you kind of need people to. Because, as you said, people buy from people, but they don't just buy from people; they have to believe in people.

Leon Gomez [00:30:29]:
Yeah. So.

Liz Allan  [00:30:30]:
So even if you're in the same business, you have to believe and understand what the person, either side of you, does. So if you're part of a process, and this sounds really boring, doesn't it? You talk about the word process, but actually you're talking about people working in departments, and you've got, you know, you're doing one thing, they're doing the one on the left doing that one, and the one left to that one is doing this thing. But we're all involved, and then the ones on the right are after you. So if you're not talking to each other, you end up just being in a little silo. I'm in my own little lane. But then that's where things start going a bit awry, isn't it? Because. And especially in big companies. But it's not actually, you know what, it's not even just in big companies.

Liz Allan  [00:31:15]:
I've seen it very many places where people are just. Especially if there's time pressure, you know, you're so busy, you're so, so busy concentrating on what you're doing that you don't have time to talk to other people. But actually, sometimes you end up overlapping with what that person, either side of you, is doing because actually you're not talking. So if you can work out what that one's doing, you know, that other person's doing, you might actually be able to shave a bit of time off and be able to go on to the next thing rather than going, oh, my God, I can't. I can't finish this work because, you know. So this is the thing about understanding what everybody does that's so important, isn't it?

Leon Gomez [00:32:01]:
Yeah. I've learned over the years my great believer in empowerment and delegation where possible, and not shrugging shoulders and saying, I'll be the first one to get stuck into something. However, I give an example, we look again at the charger thing. So who would I be to approach a supplier? Suppliers. To say, this is the information that we've got in your charger. Is this correct? I would just say this is the format we'd like, and we ask as part of your proposal that you fill this in, you stick to the format, but you can put what you want in it. In the sense that this is what they want to present, and these are the facts that we've asked about the question. So important that yeah, everyone appreciates what they bring to the, what they bring to the picture. Because you can't like you see if you're especially SSE for this example.

Leon Gomez [00:32:55]:
Again, if you're across business units, it's probably the better example. And you don't appreciate that in transmission, when they're delivering something that doesn't go into an office, it goes into a store in the middle of nowhere, and then it has to be offset. So maybe when we're dealing with them, they don't order ones and twos, they order in a palette. So that's different. When I go to the corporate office, because they order ones and twos because there's a local drop off, it goes straight into the office, and that's fine. So it's appreciating those different bits of the picture. Well, actually what I did in that, a few instances there was I just assigned someone from each business unit, right, you tell me your story, how you need it. So all of a sudden, we had a contract that was for one thing, but had different flavours, and the supplier knew that, the business unit knew that, and it was much more straightforward eventually.

Liz Allan  [00:33:50]:
Because I was going to say that's, that's you understanding that end to end, isn't it? You're, you're seeing it end to end from here to here to here and that and that kind of like you said, if you say like I'm going to use it as a biros, I've got biros, I've got a Biro in my hand here. Got companies that are ordering. There you go, there you go. So you've got, you've got like you say corporate offices that want a few packets of biros because you know, people still need them, but actually you want to, you know, somewhere else that's got hundreds of people and then like you say they want, they want that palette. But it is just those nuances, isn't it, in the, in, in people's buying behaviour and need and their needs. Because that was what I was going to ask you as well. When you look at procurement and sort of, if we look at the end user perspective and if we take it back to going back to the EV charging kind of Example, how do you bring that customer or, you know, that end user perspective into a procurement decision when you're, you know, when we're looking at EV charging, you know, how does, how does that work? Because that's some of the stuff that you're working on, isn't it?

Leon Gomez [00:35:14]:
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think I've had a better background, but I was born. But that's 10 years, 10 and a half years or sorry, 10 years. Just about 10 years, sorry. Fat EVs. And it's the user experience, I would say. So if I rock up, let's say my customer is, I don't know, X counsel and around the road and I rock up there and I can charge without a problem with my little BLEEP card, whatever it is, then I know it's working. So I think from that point, it's my card, like we were talking about earlier, about these things with charge and how we can address that issue if things are working or not.

Leon Gomez [00:35:56]:
If you can plug in and without fail it just works, and you're charged correctly and all that good stuff. And it unplugs, that's another key one. It unplugs successfully when you're finished, and no one's blocking it. All these things, if all these things are taken care of. So, yeah, you know, your whole job you're looking at marking signage, bollards, so the environment around it, so it's protected, so it's well signed and signposted. Maybe there's a camera. Wow. Maybe there's a signpost to say, is it fine if you stay too long for the user? Does it work the first time, every time? Are there instructions? There's a little screen that tells you, is there somewhere that can actually beep or boop, however you want to call it.

Leon Gomez [00:36:35]:
Is it contactless pay? Is it an app? Let's try to avoid that. Is it contactless pay? Let's say it's a private one, make it easy. So all those things. And then also, if that's the end user point of view, then from that charging unit manufacturer, does it fit? Does it actually match the dimensions, is it too wide, is it too long, is it too short? Is it going to fit where we say it's going to fit? You don't want to ship something and go, there's no space. So don't worry about that bit of.

Liz Allan  [00:37:03]:
Paper, just walk around the back of the car.

Leon Gomez [00:37:05]:
Yeah.

Liz Allan  [00:37:10]:
Yeah. I was going to say it's a bit like buying a microwave in my in-laws', bless their hearts, but a cooker to Fit into a fitted kitchen. Their cooker had died, and they bought a new one. But it didn't. It. It wasn't the width, it was the depth. I think it was a cooker. It might have been.

Liz Allan  [00:37:33]:
Oh no, it wasn't. It was a washing machine. That was it. So. Because that cooker would have been very different, but. But it was a washing machine, and it never totally fitted, and it was always done. My husband, my father-in-law's heading. But you know, it.

Liz Allan  [00:37:45]:
It doesn't look any different. Yeah, really. But it's just that tiny bit. So what you're saying is so right. You need to get the dimensions right, don't you? And just not lean in dimension. I've not even thought about that bit.

Leon Gomez [00:37:58]:
Is it dimensions, the plug, the connection, the user experience and before that, as well for the installer? Do they know how to install it? Is it a straightforward install and actually plonking it on the ground? Does that work? What groundworks do we need to see or procure the services of X, Y and Z to do the groundworks, if you've got the capacity on site? Is that the question before that, like, have you got enough power? And then if you don't, by the way, there's a nice little process you have to go through. It's going to take you two or three years. Hang on. Maybe they actually don't want to. They've got some budget. Is there a way to go off that and maybe look at battery storage capacity, or charging only overnight, or load balancing?

Leon Gomez [00:38:39]:
So, and that, you know, and all that sort of stuff. And before that, and then before all that is like what do you want, and how much have you got to spend? So it kind of goes through that iteration of. And procure involved probably every step of the way because SSE, right charge, right place, right time, all that sort of fun stuff. But it just means, you know, that thing about. It's what you're proposing to go to work. If you look at customer requirements and go straight away, it's not going to happen. But what we could suggest is this. So rather than just saying no, say no.

Leon Gomez [00:39:14]:
But actually, this is maybe more cost-effective, or this will work better. But you can also chuck some advertising in there as well. Oh, that's great. So there are lots of things, revenue streams. Maybe in future we'll look at things like. Well, I've done one trial already, but vehicle-to-grid. So is that extra revenue or battery storage to pump the energy back to the grid when it's most required, etc? Lots of fun stuff.

Leon Gomez [00:39:39]:
That's kind of why their personalities. Let's just kind of reason we enjoy it. It's because of so many bits.

Liz Allan  [00:39:49]:
It is so many bits of the jigsaw puzzle, isn't there? Because I was going to say also the other thing about. When you talked about advertising, and I know that there are some events, you know, charges that have the ability to use advertising, but they don't. Oh, they're not always used. Yeah, like you'll see those kinds of two. A double screen. So like the top screen is kind of like the biggest advertising bit and then the, the main screen, isn't it. As in, you know, it's not. Sometimes they don't use the top bit.

Liz Allan  [00:40:22]:
That's what I'm trying to say. But the other option, which I would love to see from some of the chat, the charges in the uk, across the country, is the ability to provide that level of feedback as well as in not just occasionally, not just what they call a Net promoter score, which is you get it from your phone company once a year that says, you know, would you, Would you, would you like to recommend our services? What would you choose out of ten? That means nothing, you know, like, oh, yeah, I'm gonna say today it's an eight, next week it's a three. You know, you need to have feedback on a, on a regular basis to be able to inform your decisions as an organization. Because that's what I would love to see as part of a, you know, I'm assuming part of the procurement process, you could build it into, say, where would we put that feedback? Can we do that? How beneficial is it going to be? What. What benefit is it going to provide us with?

Leon Gomez [00:41:20]:
Absolutely. I think you're right. Because then also you can. With that feedback. Even the very notion that people will provide most of the time, it's like the feedback, they'll only provide something if it's negative. But all of a sudden, if people are actually doing it because it's like, oh, that looks quite cool, or gamifying it a little bit, getting more involvement. And then, actually, you might find that people, bizarrely, the uptake might be a little bit better, and as it gets busier, this is going to get more and more important. When that uptime or that usage time goes from 17% to 71%, all of a sudden, you're like, this is critical.

Leon Gomez [00:41:53]:
So that's the message that comes across, or put across a lot as well, is get these things like, you're spot on. Let's get these things in place now before it gets really, really busy, before the cars are flooded with EVs and by that point, it's too late. So. Yeah, I think you're absolutely right. Absolutely right.

Liz Allan  [00:42:15]:
And I was gonna say you've. You've got kids, haven't you? I know you've got. You've got. They're quite young compared to me. My son, who's now 20. But I remember the days of going to Legoland in Windsor. So those of you who've been to Legoland in Windsor or any of the others, they've got. And I know they're in other places, and I might have talked about this before, but you'll get like, how was your experience today? And it.

Liz Allan  [00:42:38]:
And they have this outside the big Legoland store. So usually it's kind of like different smiley faces, different levels of smiley faces or a bit of a sad face, you know, so. And I usually. Unless there was something really kind of, you know, rubbish, it was. Well, actually, you know what, it'd be my son because he'd just go, smiley face, smiley face every time. But the. What. I remember one time where there was a need to actually put that, you know, sad face and then you get a little bit of.

Liz Allan  [00:43:09]:
Was it this? Was it that? You know, because again, that helps inform your. Your understanding of your decisions moving forward, doesn't it?

Leon Gomez [00:43:19]:
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And a fun life. We went there in October, it was this year. And that. That did you? Yeah, yeah, it was good. It was very cold, but it was good. It was really good. It was quieter, actually.

Leon Gomez [00:43:35]:
It was. Was quieter. But yeah, it's like. It's almost like that little element when you're going out to the toilets at the airport. It's another one. I don't know how many people wash their hands. I don't tend to do that one. But for those who are in Legoland, for example, it kind of makes you feel like maybe they do care a little bit, and maybe that's enough.

Leon Gomez [00:44:02]:
And if they did the same for charge points, you're right, that's a really good idea. All of a sudden, you get buy-in and uptime. It has to improve because they'll know where to go. It's like in my old logistics days, the first job I had, the first meaningful job I had, it was a sign and technical. Fixed jobs for cash registers in France. Some grumpy French people were quite funny. I loved the French. But there were some people who, of course, do the Retirement, let's say, no matter the nationality.

Leon Gomez [00:44:35]:
And they were reliant on people clicking buttons or triggering a fault on the cash machine. And that's how they got the jobs, that's how their jobs were assigned. And all of a sudden, that productivity goes up when you know where you're going. So that makes a big difference.

Liz Allan  [00:44:59]:
It does make a massive difference. And I just, yeah, I would love to see that, especially the charges that have got that ability to do it that aren't, aren't currently, you know, because you're missing, missing an opportunity. But just, just moving on to another, another question, really, I suppose, where what would you like to see happening in the procurement space? Especially kind of in the EV sector, full stop, in the next kind of five, five to 10 years, what would you like to see happen?

Leon Gomez [00:45:35]:
I think given the nascent nature, even we. So dial back a little bit. So when I was in ssc I did the. My ex-colleague and I did the. So what was the procurement framework strategy category plan for the group, which was like there's about 500 sites for SSE? Bizarrely, most are things like substations and wind farms and stuff. So we set out the strategy for the charging, and at the time, I remember in our strategy we did say one of the lines, this is a very nascent new industry, as we all know. And this is back then, this is about eight years ago.

Leon Gomez [00:46:14]:
I think we need to be seven or eight years ago; we need to be mindful of that. This is not a well-developed industry. There's going to be buyouts, people going out of business, collaboration, merging, and all that sort of stuff. So we need to be mindful that what we say today, what our strategy is today, is going to be different in a year or two or three. And it is a surprise, surprise that maintenance elements may be foreseen as this sort of size and actually this sort of size, everyone complaining about faults, which they should. So what I would like, because of that nature, because it's all new and there's a lot of new mark entrances still evolving, still developing, they're still so much innovation yet to happen that public, private, government, everybody, all procurement things, not treat it entirely separately, but treat it a little bit out of the norm. So what I mean by that is where we have a normal procurement process, which is regulated, and all that good stuff is driven by values. So it can be, if it's over A certain threshold, it's got to be regulated, it's got to go through a standstill process and all that sort of good.

Leon Gomez [00:47:26]:
So lots of delays, delays, delays in bureaucracy. Basically. If there's a way we can. Like, for example, this morning, it was announced they're going to look. The government's going to look at a consultation and potentially propose that off-street parking be introduced. Not going to need planning permission. So in the sense of the charge gully. So if they want a cable that is going to help my dad, they can go under the pavement in a hidden little gully.

Leon Gomez [00:47:49]:
And so that, that's completely logical. And again in a reasonably heavily bureaucratic country, an approach like that would help where we go. Actually, you know, EV procurement's a little bit different, so let's look at appointing three small to medium, two maybe medium to large, you know, bigger organisations. But let's make sure we do do that. Which is a risky approach from the company perspective, but in the grand scheme of things, if I think about big corporate, is it really the worst case is one of those falters, and you've got someone else in the background that can pick it up, that's fine. So it's a slightly different approach, I think, needed to work with and contracting and buying from the AV industry. Again, you'll also get new market entrants in terms of the supply of goods, the software, etc. From the far east.

Leon Gomez [00:48:44]:
We've seen that with the cars, and we'll see it increasingly with Eastern European and Chinese manufacturers coming in, but they often. And the batteries as well, often they, they probably know better than we do. So yeah, we need to be very open to being flexible.

Liz Allan  [00:49:07]:
Okay, right, so I'm going to ask you this. So how can you help companies then get through that Maya, as it were, and get them to a place where, you know, in the future we can kind of see all of these good things coming out. What I can, I know your USP, you know, your unique selling point, as it were. But you know what? Who can you help with all this stuff we've been talking about?

Leon Gomez [00:49:46]:
I think probably, yeah, how I could help would be the approach to the EV market, given my background. 10+ years in the round on EV driving, EVs, energy, procurement, logistics, and then the bids and tender stuff with the startup. The reason for that end-to-end view and the value of that is that you can appreciate when it's very difficult, you say everyone's very busy. So if I give you an example of a local company looking at something, this actually wasn't just EVs, it was the EV, potentially, but also energy usage. So don't have time to run a business. An ice cream shop is fun enough, with quite a decent-sized roof. Have you looked at solar? And all of a sudden, quite a bit of manufacturing ice cream there, and don't have time to do that. Can you bring those costs down in your energy? So, all of a sudden, you can employ more staff, which you need, and then, longer term, are you on the best tariff? So it's looking at maybe a different approach to who we contract with, how we contract with them, and whether we can fix prices? There's no, I think, bringing in a corporate mentality or staying with a small-to-medium business or company mentality, which is very, very easy to do.

Leon Gomez [00:51:15]:
And I'm sure I do it myself for my own company, is very difficult to be blinded by the business. Whereas the opportunity for someone like me to come in and go day one, day three, day five, have you looked at this? Let's look at that. And having the time and expertise to just make a difference and say, 'There's a different way of doing things.' If you're procuring from X, Y and Z suppliers, did you know there's margin in there? Did you know you're actually losing out here? And if you do it this way, you save. And then, in terms of bidding, before we even get there, you're going to need to jump through these hoops. So being prepared in terms of your cost base and being able to have that kind of, I suppose in a funny sort of way, corporate outlook, it might not be a corporate large organization, but you probably deserve to be able to have that bargaining power and you probably could have that make that difference in future to ask those questions, those difficult questions about why couldn't you fix the price? Why couldn't you agree on terms with them? Why can't they be more favourable? Because all of a sudden, they have an agile player that gives them access to other customers they might not have otherwise had. And there's a collaboration thing. So it's a different way of viewing supply chain, and bidding is essential.

Liz Allan  [00:52:42]:
And I was gonna say what you've just. What you've just said there about being agile and not jumping the oil tank. Was it an oil tanker? No, it's a big container ship that got. So, it is not being that now, whereas a smaller company can be agile and make decisions much quicker. It's what you're really saying, what you're describing. And it's the same with, with you know, kind of improvement work that actually that external lens coming in, you can, you can look at things on that end-to-end basis, can't you? From one end to the other and, and then, and spot these things that, that people who are so involved in that organization, it. Sometimes it's in front of their faces, but they can't always see it, can they? You know, sometimes it takes somebody else to point it out.

Leon Gomez [00:53:38]:
No, exactly. And it's like it's that approach to be able to, from prior experience, to look at it, to look at it and say, and you're right, you probably have seen. It's just having the time and data, the experience to look at it quite quickly and say this isn't a perfect solution, but this would make a difference in your day-to-day. I'm just as much as you probably. I'm a. The improvement thing, you know, I love is if there's anything that can be in any way, shape or form simplified or automated, I'm absolutely all for it because end-of-day bids, and we're working towards that, they all ask for the same stuff. So if you can build in the background that did it, volta a library of stuff, answers, questions, likelihood, certifications. So one of the first things we did was see that before you look at any of those bids, you need to have all this, you need to be registered here, and you need to do those, tick those boxes.

Leon Gomez [00:54:36]:
All right, okay. And some of them were quite an eye opener, like a quality certificate. Do you need that? Yeah. And they were aware of it, but didn't realise the urgency. So we can't even begin to look at this stuff if you don't have these things. Insurance is an interesting one as well. You have to have certain levels that nobody needs the levels they ask for. But it would help if you said, "Yeah, we can do that."

Leon Gomez [00:55:00]:
So.

Liz Allan  [00:55:03]:
It'S that knowledge for you. It's that, it's that, it's that background knowledge, isn't it? It's that, it's filling those. Because you know, filling those gaps, even if you've got like a small business with like 10, 20, 30, 40 people, doesn't necessarily mean that they've got all of that insider knowledge. And you know, what you're talking about is filling, filling those gaps in. It's a bit, you know, a bit like re. I was going to say retail in a bathroom. I like to use my anecdotal evidence.

Leon Gomez [00:55:32]:
Oh yeah.

Liz Allan  [00:55:33]:
But you know, or just filling a crack in a wall or that kind of stuff. You are, you are kind of the, you're the poly filler.

Leon Gomez [00:55:42]:
Yeah.

Liz Allan  [00:55:42]:
Really?

Leon Gomez [00:55:43]:
Yeah, yeah. I like, I like that. I'll keep that one for later, as I like it. No, you're right, it's. I thought you were probably going back into my career, since my first job in procurement was outsourcing. So basically it's a company exchange, and the principle was pretty good. So, looking at going to big companies and saying, see that stuff you don't want to buy, you buy phones, you buy computers and your stuff, but see the stuff you don't want to do, your core service is this stuff. See that non-core stuff.

Leon Gomez [00:56:13]:
We'll take care of that. And it actually seems like low-value add, but all of a sudden, you've freed up 5, 10% of your workforce, 20, 30% of their time, and that time comes at a cost. So when they've got that free time, the cost is so insignificant. So maybe say I don't know, 20,000 cost but savings in terms of their time and what they can then add in value to their own organisation, maybe 100,000, you know, it pays for itself two, three fold easy. So it's. And that's from a savings perspective or the success of bids. One, both elements are important, of course, revenue generation. And before you even get there, being able to offer that at a better price increases the chances of winning.

Leon Gomez [00:57:02]:
I like that polyfill.

Liz Allan  [00:57:03]:
And just having somebody like you. Good. And having somebody like you around to be able to fill those gaps and have that knowledge is, you know, fantastic. And sometimes, you know, like I say on the, on my side, on the, on the. Yours is improvement, yours is, you know, the stuff that you look at in procurement. Mine is kind of a lot of the end-to-end stuff, in a slightly different way. But you can see these things quite, quite differently. And it's putting it, making it tangible for people, isn't it? If you can provide a.

Liz Allan  [00:57:42]:
That kind of level of tangibility is probably what that word means.

Leon Gomez [00:57:47]:
Yeah.

Liz Allan  [00:57:47]:
If not, I've just made it. No, it is, you know, actually being able to make something tangible so that they can see that saving. Because some of the stuff that I work on, people can't always see that saving. But same as what you're saying, I've kind of said, well, you know, there are certain things where if you save. If you think about it, somebody can save a couple of hours a week. One person, you know, on doing something slightly different and, you know, it doesn't need to be majorly different, but just maybe, you know, a step that you're doing in that process, you take one bit out and it, you know, actually that minutes per day, it could be, you know, 15 minutes a day or whatever. But what if you say, like, overall, whatever you're doing saves two hours a week. Look at that.

Liz Allan  [00:58:35]:
Over. Over a month, over a year. You know, you're freeing. Freeing time up and, and it's not trying to get people to go, oh, well, somebody's gonna make me do something else. Now. It's not that it means that you're freeing up time so that you're not having to work like a Trojan all the time, to you know, just work like a normal person. I don't know what normal is, do you know, to me, work like somebody who doesn't feel that they have to do kind of extra hours all the time to fit their. Fit all of the work that they've got to do in that day, you know, so freeing a few hours, a couple of hours a week, just.

Liz Allan  [00:59:17]:
It makes a difference. Especially if you can do that over a number of different people.

Leon Gomez [00:59:23]:
Yeah.

Liz Allan  [00:59:24]:
Think like you're saying it's about thinking about things a little bit differently, isn't it?

Leon Gomez [00:59:30]:
Yeah, it's like, you know, if the. If the machine's broken, fix the machine. So if there's a better way for that machine to work for you, or if it's a better way for a process to work for you, that's your, you know, your expertise. You're right. As all of a sudden, you're not stretched and just making it with bids as well. You know, you're completing the bid a few days beforehand, and you've got time to reflect and to assess and set yourself up for more success rather than just managing. You're absolutely right.

Liz Allan  [01:00:05]:
I'm going to ask you one final question.

Leon Gomez [01:00:07]:
Go for it.

Liz Allan  [01:00:09]:
My final question to you then is, outside of procurement, what excites you about the EV sector and the sustainability transition, you know, electrification transition right now? What excites you?

Leon Gomez [01:00:25]:
What excites me? The EV sector outside of Procure EV is so cheesy, but making a difference, and making a difference in the sense my wife's got asthma and see, not having stinking diesel everywhere, coming off a bus where it's still okay in 2025 where kids are queuing up and this black smog, it's not even the issue, but it's like that's really bad. Especially in winter when it's cold. So a journey to school that doesn't have to involve a car doesn't even need to be an ev. It can be feet, you know, people can walk within a two-mile radius. I think maybe I'm a bit really old school sort of regime, in the sense of. I think within a certain. Unless there's a medical condition, I think within a certain race, schools or whatever it might be, people should walk first and foremost. But then, improving the air quality.

Leon Gomez [01:01:17]:
Remember, in COVID, if I go back when people were travelling less, that all of a sudden, basically, nature was almost reborn in the sense that flowers were going crazy, and there was all sorts of stuff. I remember very clearly that air quality was so good. They'd never been that good for many years. You kind of wonder if it's that planned. But going back to your point that excites me. Improving air quality. I mean I just love cars to be honest. It's fun, people deserve to.

Leon Gomez [01:01:47]:
It's almost moving to that bit about there being a really good car a few years ago, a Sono Scion, which was a shame. I invested a very small amount of money, £50, in a share. They went bust. See nothing. But the point was that their car was covered in solar panels, and it was set up. The purpose was to set up an app-sharing community car. There's a battery-electric car with solar panels that could sit in the community. And you know, an ex-colleague and I from Volta who lives around the corner were very keen on that idea about, you know, nobody needs a car sitting there 17, 18, 19 hours on the driveway.

Leon Gomez [01:02:25]:
So if there's a better way. So car share and stuff like that. So car sharing, reducing emissions, increase of EVs. But I still think there's a space and a place, and I might not. I hope this goes down well, and I mean in a good way, that if you're. If we're going to crush all old cars and get rid of them entirely, I think that's the wrong thing. So actually sweating the asset, maintaining them and having those cars that are petrol or whatever they might be for enjoyment on occasion rather than the atb. So the ATB for me is where electricity comes in for cars and vehicles.

Leon Gomez [01:02:59]:
The A to B journeys are by foot, bike, whatever, train or electric, electrified. So that's the bit I look forward to most, reducing emissions, electrifying everything. And as much as we can consume of what comes from that big yellow blob in the sky and use ourselves, all the better.

Liz Allan  [01:03:23]:
Love it. I love that. That's a really good end. I really like that, honestly.

Leon Gomez [01:03:28]:
Thank you.

Liz Allan  [01:03:29]:
It's been. It's just me, and you could just talk, and when you were talking about Belinda, for those. For those of you who didn't listen to Belinda Guy's podcast, that's who he's on about. But me, you and Belinda have said that if we got in a room together, we'd just be talking, talking for like ages, but. Jessica. If you haven't listened to Belinda Guy's podcast with me, please check it out. But just on that note, it's been brilliant. I've really enjoyed talking to you.

Liz Allan  [01:04:00]:
We both go off on what I like. I said, Belinda, the spicy tangents. But that's fine. And that's. That's what this podcast is about. It's about conversation, and we've had that, and it's just been lovely. So just say thank you. Thank you ever so much for joining me.

Liz Allan  [01:04:15]:
Honestly, it's been great.

Leon Gomez [01:04:16]:
Absolute pleasure. I guess I could be here for another four hours. It's absolutely fine.

Liz Allan  [01:04:24]:
I'm gonna be. I'm gonna have to have some water in a minute, though. I know, I know, but listen, but look, thank you. And to everybody watching, listen, I'm just going to say, check him out. Check out, check out Procure ev. I will share your links in the show notes. Check him out. There's lots of, there's lots of knowledge in that wee head that he has over there.

Liz Allan  [01:04:50]:
But, yeah, but look, Leon, thank you. Thank you for joining me. And to everybody else, I'm just going to say, please do, you know, share, like, subscribe, do all those wonderful things. Check out our podcast page on LinkedIn and just get the word out. And if you need help with procurement, please just give him a shout. He's a good lad. Anyway, for everybody watching and listening, I'm going to say thanks, and I'll see you next time. Thanks for listening to Electric Evolution with Liz Allen.

Liz Allan  [01:05:22]:
I'd like to take a moment to thank our sponsor, ProcurEV, who support organisations across EV charging and electrification by bringing clarity and confidence to procurement bids and tenders. If you enjoyed the episode, please follow and subscribe wherever you get your podcasts. And if you know someone who would be a great, great guest or who would be interested in sponsoring a future episode, you can reach me at liz@fullcircleci.co.uk. Thanks again for tuning in, because real change starts with the conversations we choose to have.