Episode 181: Liz Allan and Jonathan Porterfield - Used EV Bargains, Battery Longevity and the Auction Advantage

Episode 181: Liz Allan and Jonathan Porterfield - Used EV Bargains, Battery Longevity and the Auction Advantage.

Liz Allan speaks to Jonathan Porterfield, former owner of Eco Cars in Orkney and a long-time EV early adopter, now sharing weekly insights from Shoreham Vehicle Auctions on YouTube. From driving electric across Europe to tracking what used EVs actually sell for at auction, Jonathan breaks down the realities behind range anxiety, charging confidence, and the biggest myth of all: battery longevity.

Liz and Jonathan discuss how he built Eco Cars from a buy-to-order model, why word of mouth and transparency mattered more than flashy listings, and what auctions can teach everyday drivers about genuine EV value. Jonathan also shares why legacy dealerships have struggled to adapt, the shift in profit models as servicing changes, and why high-mileage EV stories are one of the most powerful ways to build public confidence.

Jonathan Porterfield Bio:
Jonathan Porterfield is the former founder of Eco Cars, a specialist used EV sales business that operated from Orkney and served customers across the UK.  He is now retired, but remains deeply active in the EV space through his YouTube channel, where he shares weekly auction-focused videos highlighting used EV prices and what to look for when buying.  Jonathan is known for making EV ownership feel practical and achievable, especially for drivers considering the second-hand market. 

Quote of the Episode:
“People read one story about degradation on a Nissan Leaf and think it applies to everything.” Jonathan Porterfield. 

Jonathan Porterfield Links;
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbTH9H1oI3IUSTMoGJDk5TQ
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonathan-porterfield-00b7ba11

Transcript

Liz Allan  [00:00:01]:
Hi everyone, and welcome back to another episode of Electric Evolution. Now I have Jonathan Porterfield with me today. I've been wanting to get this man on this podcast for over 3 years. I can't believe it, Jonathan. Today is just a joy to finally speak to you, so thank you. you.

Jonathan Porterfield [00:00:22]:
I'm.

Liz Allan  [00:00:26]:
Thank you for introducing me as Jonathan Porterfield, former owner of Eco Cars. But he's very lucky now, he's retired, and he's currently speaking to me from Spain, aren't you?

Jonathan Porterfield [00:00:42]:
Yes, I'd say sunny Spain, but we've had the most violent storms they've had in years here, and it's not baking hot. Like, we came last year, and it was like 22-25 degrees all day. Every day it's about 15, 16, not to rub it in, but it's not bad.

Liz Allan  [00:00:59]:
I'm not jealous at all. I think we've got floods in various parts of the country today, so that's fun, you know. So yeah, we've been getting torrential rain. We did in Reading yesterday, but, uh, yes, it's definitely not 15, 15, or 16 degrees.

Jonathan Porterfield [00:01:18]:
No, just to say quickly drove here in my EV. Yay! Southern Spain, Mahaka, right at the bottom of Spain, where it joins, about 4 hours from Gibraltar, so the bottom half of Spain.

Liz Allan  [00:01:33]:
Nice, nice, love it. So let's, let's talk about what you did before you retired. And I'm, like I say, I'm not jealous at all that you're on holiday. It's been there since Christmas Eve, folks, you know. So nice. But you're going back to the UK tomorrow, aren't you?

Jonathan Porterfield [00:01:49]:
So we're going back. We're not doing it in one fell swoop, so we're just— I enjoy driving. I— we both enjoy travelling, my wife and I, and Monty the dog. Um, I enjoy doing sort of vloggy type videos for my YouTube channel about how easy it is to drive massive distances in EV, just to, just to, just to catalogue it and show people how I do it. So maybe it might inspire other people to do it. But on the way back, say, it's not a mad rush to get back because I haven't got to get back to a 9-to-5 job. So part of the drive back is part of the holiday. So if 3, 4, 5 hours of the day, stop somewhere interesting that Mrs.

Jonathan Porterfield [00:02:28]:
P has found, spend a couple of days there, drive for another 4, 5 hours, spend— so it's just, it's just experiencing cultures and different bits of Europe in an EV and enjoying the drive. Yeah, desperate rush to get home.

Liz Allan  [00:02:41]:
And let's just—so, what are you driving at the moment, then?

Jonathan Porterfield [00:02:45]:
So last year, just for balance, I came in my 64-kilowatt-hour Kia e-Niro. Yeah, 2021 plate, and it was just seamless. And then last June, I bought myself a new Tesla Model Y Juniper, so we've come down in the Tesla this time, right? So just to sort of say you can do long drives in non-Teslas.

Liz Allan  [00:03:09]:
Yeah, we've done it in our 2021 Hyundai Ioniq 38.5 kWh. So yeah, we did, we went to Northern Spain to Gijón last year, but we kind of went across on the Portsmouth to Santander ferry, 36 hours on a ferry. Interesting. Actually, it wasn't as bad as you think, actually. And yeah, we did Spain, and then we drove back through Spain and France. So, so yeah, we've, we've we've got, done it. It's, it's doable, it's doable no matter what, isn't it? But I'm assuming you've got a lot more range in the Tesla than you had.

Jonathan Porterfield [00:03:45]:
Yeah, I bought the rear-wheel-drive long-range, so a genuine 330-340-mile range at motorway speeds, and it is just awesomely efficient. And that motorway speeds here are like 80 miles an hour.

Liz Allan  [00:04:01]:
Yeah.

Jonathan Porterfield [00:04:02]:
So, and you know what the roads are like in France and Spain, they're just— and the motorway network is just brilliant.

Liz Allan  [00:04:08]:
Yeah, and the charging network's really good over there.

Jonathan Porterfield [00:04:11]:
France is the best in my opinion. Spain, it's okay, especially with the Supercharger network; it's fine. Um, yeah, but as regards other providers, not every service station in Spain has got Rapids, whereas in France I can almost guarantee every service station will have Rapids.

Liz Allan  [00:04:30]:
And we just used our Electraverse card last year, and that made it so easy because it kind of prompts you, doesn't it, to either use the app or the RFID card. So it just made, I think we only had like one little issue, and that was, I think that was when we were in somewhere random in Spain— sorry, no, in France, somewhere random, and there was just an issue with that charger, you know, but we didn't really need it. It was just going to be a top-up, really, because we were wandering around somewhere. So, so yeah, it was, it wasn't, it's not as if you can't see where they all are, but it's, it's so much easier really than people think. So come on, anyway, let's look. You owned eco cars for nearly 21 years. My God. But that was up, and that was up in Orkney, but you're not originally from Orkney, are you? Come on, give us your past history, darling.

Jonathan Porterfield [00:05:26]:
So I set up Eco Cars in 2001. Is that right? No, hang on, 2004. Got married in 2002. My wife really nudged me, saying, come on, if you really want to get into the car trade, just do it. So she gave me the motivation to start dealing in cars, and we came up with the name Eco Cars because at the time, back in the early 2000s, 2010s, um, I was— no, 2004. I dealt in LPG vehicles, so liquid petroleum gas, which was— there's hardly any particulates in it, and at the time they were London congestion charge exempt. So most of our customers based in Leicestershire, where I was born, were in London. So the LPG network wasn't vast, but it wasn't hard to find them through the likes of Flow Gas and Cala Gas.

Jonathan Porterfield [00:06:20]:
There were places you could go to fill your gas tank with LPG. So that was really, really popular, and it continued to grow, converting not just small petrol cars, but also a Toyota Prius to LPG. So it was a tri-fuel car, so it was petrol, electric, or LPG. That was awesome. Um, it was amazing. So it did about 50 miles to the gallon on petrol on average, but you put LPG in, which was half price because there wasn't the fuel duty on it. Um, you know, you had a car that, in price terms, was doing 100 miles to the gallon. So that was really popular and converted Citroën C1S, Peugeot 107s, and Toyota Aygos.

Jonathan Porterfield [00:07:10]:
And then I converted loads of petrol vans, predominantly the Citroën Berlingos and Peugeot Partner petrols instead of gas, and got them all the certificates, and they went to loads of London companies because of the congestion charge exemption. And that carried on really well up to like 2009, when the London mayor at the time— I don't know whether— I don't know who it was, might have been good old Boris, I don't know— overnight they stopped the exemption for LPG vehicles, right, under the congestion charge. Yeah, and literally, Liz, overnight, the phone stopped ringing. Oh God, disappeared for about 6 months, and then, which took me into 2010, 2011, it was a big event in London, um, I can't remember what it's called, but Robert was there, Robert Llewellyn, and It was at Battersea Power Station, and the name of the event's on the tip of my tongue and I can't remember. But basically, they were all electric vehicles going around a makeshift track behind Battersea Power Station. And there were all the major manufacturers, predominantly Nissan, with the Nissan Leaf. Yeah, I had to book a test drive, went for a spin in the Nissan Leaf, and drove home in my LPG Fiat 500, which was a demo car. Got home and said to my wife, I've just driven what is going to be the next big thing.

Jonathan Porterfield [00:08:36]:
It's all-electric. I mean, this Nissan Leaf Ursula was just absolutely amazing. 100-mile range, just couldn't get my head around it. Just fantastic. So about 6 months later, one or two Leafs would appear at auction ex-lease, and I just snapped them up for next to nothing compared to the new price. Because all the dealers in the motor trade auction were just petrified of electric vehicles. So bought them and started promoting them on the website, and that just, just slowly built of buying ex-lease electric vehicles because no one else really at that time, 2012, 2013, was specialising just in EVs market. And just built the business up for them.

Jonathan Porterfield [00:09:21]:
And like any business, it's about reputation and word of mouth. I never used AutoTrader; far too expensive. I just don't like AutoTrader. So it was just through social media, which is where I met Robert Llewellyn and did loads of things together. So through Twitter at the time, Facebook, and mainly YouTube, just doing YouTube videos about my journeys in my Nissan Leaf, buying and selling cars and picking them up. And yeah, it just grew from there, really, just my passion for EVs, which was quite early on. I'm an early adopter.

Liz Allan  [00:09:53]:
You definitely are, aren't you? So when did you— right, okay, so when did you move up to Orkney then? Because you just said you're from Leicestershire. When was that move to Orkney?

Jonathan Porterfield [00:10:01]:
So I moved to Orkney in 2013.

Liz Allan  [00:10:03]:
Okay, and what was that? What— have you got Scottish roots, or your wife?

Jonathan Porterfield [00:10:09]:
Well, I have Scottish roots inasmuch as my name, Porterfield, is a Scottish clan name. I think. There aren't many about. My middle name is Bain, which is a Scottish surname. It was my great-grandma's maiden name, and they came from Caithness. Apparently, my granddad, whom I never met, was from Glasgow. So my dad always used to say, I've gone back to my roots, sort of thing. Yeah, we just fell in love with Orkney.

Jonathan Porterfield [00:10:37]:
Um, there were 7 electric vehicles on Orkney at the time, which fascinated me because it's a tiny island. Mainly run by the council. And of course, I moved up in 2013, 2014, and I was still buying and selling cars. And what I'd do— just this, I'm trying to cram as much in as possible— what I'd do, I'd still buy cars. I'd buy cars. I'll never forget it: bought a car at Bristol BCA, a Nissan Leaf. So I'd fly down, pick it up, and this was just for stock; it wasn't for a customer. And then I'd just do YouTube videos and social media about driving from Bristol back to Leicester, stay with my parents in Leicester, and then from Leicester all the way up to Scrubster, which is just along from John O'Groats, right? Go back to Orkney.

Jonathan Porterfield [00:11:21]:
Um, so catalogue that whole driving experience, valet the car, video the car, put it on my website. And that— I'll never forget it— that particular car I bought out of Bristol, I sold to one of Robert Welling's Friends, um, he's on Have I Got News for You and has another Just a Minute. The bloke who walked around with the fridge on his back is a comedian. I can't remember his name.

Liz Allan  [00:11:48]:
Oh my God, I'll have to check. Um, people probably know that. I'll be, I'll be checking this out while he's chatting.

Jonathan Porterfield [00:11:57]:
So, um, Supply Detective. Now, he lived in Exeter.

Liz Allan  [00:12:02]:
Oh yeah.

Jonathan Porterfield [00:12:03]:
So I'm like, hang on, I bought a car in Bristol, took it all the way back to Orkney, sold it to a man in Exeter, and drove it all the way back down to Exeter. I thought there had to be an easier way of doing it than this. So that's when I started saying on my website, look, this is, for instance, coming up next week in Exeter.

Liz Allan  [00:12:20]:
Tony Hawks. I know, I've just found it.

Jonathan Porterfield [00:12:31]:
So then I thought, well, if I then say to people, look, there's a car at Bristol next week, a Nissan Leaf, it should be at the time, you know, £12,000. As long as I can make £300 profit, then let me know and we can sort something out. And that just took off, just being open and honest with people, saying, look, there's a car at the auctions next week, here's the condition report, you've got no clutch to worry about, you've got no oil changes, you've got no knocking of the engine, you've got no smoky exhaust. It either works or it doesn't, it's under warranty, blah blah blah. And people just love that honest approach, and you want £300 for that? Yeah, you go pick it up, give me the money, and I'll buy it. And that just took off, just buy to order, which made me feel better because obviously there's less time involved, less carbon footprint of driving up and down and catching ferries.

Liz Allan  [00:13:24]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jonathan Porterfield [00:13:26]:
And that just exploded to the point where I'd have 2 or 3 in stock, because there are some people, particularly at Aldi, who physically wanted to see the car.

Liz Allan  [00:13:34]:
Yeah.

Jonathan Porterfield [00:13:34]:
But I'd say 70% of my customers were from the south. I'd never meet the customer, I'd never see the car, but I'd get glowing reports: 'This is absolutely amazing.' And they enjoyed being part of the motor trade for the day. I've 'Hi, I'm from Eco Cars, come to pick up such and such a car,' and I'd sort out the tax and registration online. And yeah, that's basically the story of Eco Cars: it grew and grew and grew till, before I sold it, I was nearly turning over a million pounds a year.

Liz Allan  [00:14:05]:
Yeah.

Jonathan Porterfield [00:14:06]:
And earning around £300 per car.

Liz Allan  [00:14:08]:
So, oh, that's amazing. And I was going to say, and over the, and over the years— so when did, when did you retire? Last year.

Jonathan Porterfield [00:14:16]:
It was just in, so it'd be like 2022.

Liz Allan  [00:14:20]:
Okay.

Jonathan Porterfield [00:14:21]:
Yeah, so what's that, a couple of 3 years ago, something like that.

Liz Allan  [00:14:25]:
Well, we're in '26 now, so it's a little while longer. So, as you know, as time's gone on, the number of EVs has increased massively, hasn't it?

Jonathan Porterfield [00:14:38]:
Yeah.

Liz Allan  [00:14:38]:
What were, what were people going for in general, or was it just it just depends what their needs were, you know.

Jonathan Porterfield [00:14:45]:
At the time, the, the most popular cars that were available secondhand was the Nissan Leaf and the Mitsubishi i-Miev. Okay. Citroën The C0, the Peugeot ION, because they were the same car, right? They were the most popular. And the old Citroën Berlingo electric, the Peugeot Partner electric, and the ENV200 van were really, really popular. And there's quite, quite a lot of my old Eco-Cars customers still running around on Orkney, still with Eco; supplied by www.ecocars.net — on the back bumper, which you used to put on. My customers would just leave the stickers on. I mean, they were massive stickers on the back bumper, with big green lettering. And that's great because people liked publicising, which I think is not a tiny little discreet sticker, it was massive, and they're just leaving them on the cars or the vans, which is always making me happy. 

Liz Allan  [00:15:38]:
That's just the way to go, isn't it? Actually, there's, um, a repair company that does car repairs, MOTs, and stuff, and when they take you on, they always put a sticker on the car. Yeah, I never took it off because I just thought, wait, it doesn't bother me. It's a little bit of advertising for them, so, you know, it didn't It doesn't bother me. What about, um, you know, since, since you've retired, so 2021 to now, what do you think about how the cars have moved on since? Because you're kind of retired, but you're kind of not really, are you? Come on.

Jonathan Porterfield [00:16:13]:
No, I still enjoy doing my YouTube videos. I'm still passionate about EVs. I think they're just amazing, and I'm still interested in how the industry is developing. There's a lot of anti-EV feeling out there, particularly from car dealers, for a variety of reasons. So I'm keenly interested in how it is evolving. So yeah, I'm sort of still involved in it.

Liz Allan  [00:16:40]:
What are your, what are your thoughts about— because I would agree with you about car dealerships, and if anybody's been listening to this podcast for a long time, they'll know that when I first started looking at EVs, when I first started the podcast over 3 years ago now, um, I had some problems then. Yeah, with dealers. Last year, I helped a couple who have now got a lovely Volvo C40, is it? No, it's not. Oh yeah, anyway, it's got a 40 in it. I'm rubbish, aren't I? Um, but, but either way, they were; they had problems with dealerships in Reading, so I kind of helped them come to— they didn't understand, and I've talked about this before, excuse me, on the podcast. They didn't know the difference between a hybrid, a plug-in hybrid, and an electric car, because lots of people don't. And actually, yes, we've got that fine; I forgot about this last week. I couldn't remember the name of it.

Liz Allan  [00:17:42]:
It's something like, you find your electric feeling. There's an ad, kind of ads. I've just heard it this morning on the radio as my alarm goes off with the radio on. I was like, oh, okay. And they're actually doing a little ad through the government about EVs. Finally, you know. But yeah, what is it about dealerships that is it because, you know, is it because dealerships have just, they know, they know their bread and butter. They know what they're selling when it's either petrol or diesel, and they don't believe in electric.

Jonathan Porterfield [00:18:18]:
Legacy dealerships with, with older gentlemen, should we say, that are the sales manager or the general manager, and they just stick to what they know. They've always sold diesels, they've always sold petrol cars. They know what they like and their customer base. They've got customers who have come back multiple times for the old family. It's like an old— there's this transition happening, and you've got the old guard, the old Arthur Daley type, shall I say. Yeah, yeah, my sort of age that grew up in the '70s and the.

Liz Allan  [00:18:47]:
'80S when being; you're not Arthur Daley though, are you? Come on, you know.

Jonathan Porterfield [00:18:51]:
No, no, but my sort of age, and it was almost like a license to print money if you were a car dealer back in the '70s and '80s, because that's— and that's the mindset that people still have about the car trade. But car dealers don't want to adapt, they don't want to change, they want to stick to what they know. And just a very brief story, I met with Mr Sturgis. Now, Sturgis was a massive Jaguar dealer group; I think they've since sold out to Marshalls. But I met Mr Sturgis, funnily enough, at DVLA or VOSA in London. To talk about what should go on V5S for EVs.

Jonathan Porterfield [00:19:29]:
I was honoured to be asked. So I was sitting around this massive table with these government bods and these people from the car trade, those auction representatives. That's when I first met Michael from Shoreham Auctions. But sitting next to me was this pinstripe gentleman with grey hair; he honestly looked like Arthur Daley, but he was a lovely chap, and it was Mr Sturgess. And as we're going to do a round-robin thing where everyone's from. And he sat next to me, he said, oh, my name's Mr Sturgis from Sturgis Motor Group in Leicestershire.

Jonathan Porterfield [00:20:00]:
I'm like, what? Johnson, of course, lives on Orkney, but originally is from Leicester. He went, you're from Leicester? So anyway, we got chatting, and at the time, they were just launching the I-PACE. And this is just, typically, when—right, okay, I want to have an honest chat. Says, come back to my dealership when we get back to Leicester, and I want to have a good chat about EVs. I know nothing. And I thought, well, hats off to you, mate, you, you want to know. So I sat in this beautiful office, glass-fronty place, it's just beautiful in there. Um, he says, right, so I know about the Alpace, I know what it can do, but as a dealership, we want to know what the profit margin is for them coming back for servicing, right? So he says, what sort of consumables? Well, there are tyres, there are wiper blades, and the screen wash. He went, is that it? I went, yeah.

Jonathan Porterfield [00:20:50]:
He went, well, we can't make much money out of those. I said, I know, but that's what I need. That's a consumable within an EV. And he was; he just sort of sat back in his chair, and he was like, it was almost like a light bulb moment to him. And I think that sort of emphasises the mindset of the old traditional car dealership. They, they make more money from your servicing, that stamp in the book, where in reality there's not, there's not a lot to service on an EV, so there's not a lot of reasons for you to revisit the dealership for a stamp. And one of the major disruptors is Tesla. They don't even come with a service book.

Jonathan Porterfield [00:21:29]:
All the other manufacturers, Hyundai, Kia, as great as they are as EVs, still have the service book. Yeah, yeah, you've got to bring it 12 months to get that.

Liz Allan  [00:21:37]:
Yeah, yeah.

Jonathan Porterfield [00:21:39]:
Spotter used to kick the tyres on top of the screen wash. So that whole mindset of the motor trade has got to change, and a lot of big dealerships are going into administration, going out of business. I think mainly because the market is just so nervous; they're so unsure of where it's going to go. So we're living in interesting times.

Liz Allan  [00:22:02]:
It's— I know it's hard, it, you know, it is hard to adapt, isn't it? But it doesn't mean that, that they can't adapt to kind of, you know; and I know there are some dealerships that are introduced, that have introduced charging as part of what they're doing as well, you know. So, and, and I suppose the same with, with Tesla, because you kind of— is it, is it still available now where you kind of buy it, or used to be, I get a Tesla and you get free supercharging up to a period, you know, like I can't remember how long ago it is that whether they still do it.

Jonathan Porterfield [00:22:33]:
Ended in 2018. Yeah, yeah.

Liz Allan  [00:22:37]:
Which I understand, I get that, you know, you kind of, especially the pricing of kind of charging these days anyway. But there are other, other incentives, aren't there, that they can kind of use to get people back? But it's, it's not, it's not easy. And like you say, it is a little bit. I think we get a lot of mixed messages as well with regard to legislation, government action, and various other things that come through. One minute it feels like you're being given £3,750 in one hand, and then they're talking pence per mile in the other, and it's kind of like, what? How does this work?

Jonathan Porterfield [00:23:16]:
Yeah, and I think, I think I've been thinking a lot about the motor trade, but it's a bit like the milkman. I mean, I'm old enough to remember the milkman in his milk electric float.

Liz Allan  [00:23:25]:
We still have a little; we still have a chap who comes around during lockdown. That was a godsend, honestly, because like, you know, going out and stuff, he'd be able to deliver other things because they don't just do— they don't just do milk anymore.

Jonathan Porterfield [00:23:38]:
But that's a dying breed. I mean, I'm old enough to remember the breadman, the potman, the milkman.

Liz Allan  [00:23:45]:
Yeah, who's the vegetable man? Made of vegetables.

Jonathan Porterfield [00:23:49]:
And then, you know, because of the rise of the Tescos and all the supermarkets of this world, that's all, you know, most of them don't have milkmen anymore. They just go and buy these big 2-litre bottles of milk. And then I was thinking, well, there are things like banking, you know, high street banks are closing because everything's done online. So when there's a massive shift in human behaviour, and that's also applying to the motor trade, and they're just bashing the drum and complaining left, right, and centre. But I'm sorry, lads, it's just progress. Things are changing. You've got to, you've got to adapt or die, basically, I think.

Liz Allan  [00:24:21]:
And the thing is, you know, when it comes down to it long term, how often, well, I'm saying this, I know that I was just thinking about how often our car sits on our drive.

Jonathan Porterfield [00:24:33]:
Yeah.

Liz Allan  [00:24:33]:
And doesn't go anywhere because I'm working from home. And I know it's not the same, it's not the case for everybody, but there are people who kind of, who don't use their car a lot and they've still got 2 cars or whatever, you know. And it's kind of like some people move to one, some, you know.

Jonathan Porterfield [00:24:51]:
With.

Liz Allan  [00:24:51]:
The, the aim long term really is that actually kind of find a way of, of, um, having less cars and vehicles on the road, you know.

Jonathan Porterfield [00:25:01]:
And I think the other major disruptor, and I'm not a Tesla fanboy by any means, but you know, in future, future times, Elon sees the fact that you'll buy a Tesla and when it's sitting on the drive, it'll be doing something else. It could be a robo-taxi, and someone will use it. Now, how we feel about that as humans, someone else sitting in your car and leaving, but that idea of using that expensive asset on your drive to earn money whilst you're sitting at your desk all day, I think, is brilliant. I just, you know, we shouldn't have that asset that costs a lot of money and a lot of resources sitting on your drive doing nothing. Make it do something.

Liz Allan  [00:25:40]:
Yeah, even if it's powering your house.

Jonathan Porterfield [00:25:43]:
Yeah, that's right. Vehicle to grid. So there's a massive change happening. Of course, you can't power your house with an internal combustion engine. No, you can't.

Liz Allan  [00:25:52]:
No, you can't. Did you see, and I think I talked about this a few months ago, there was an advert of like a skit from one of the, I think it was a home charger company, and I can't— I'm not going to say who it was, but basically they had somebody, it was a big skit set up, and it was somebody traveling around with a portable petrol station on the back of their car and going, do you want to be filled up? It was just so funny, you know, and then it fell off, and that wasn't good, and the car exploded and things. But you know, this, this is like you say, things move on. It's like moving from horse and cart to cars, isn't it? People were unhappy at the time, but.

Jonathan Porterfield [00:26:32]:
You know, at the time, you know, 100 years ago, there would have been pieces in the paper. I keep trying to Google it, you know, the people protesting about stable lads being out of work, farriers.

Liz Allan  [00:26:43]:
Blacksmiths.

Jonathan Porterfield [00:26:44]:
Yeah, yeah, and saddle makers and stable boys and people that supplied hay and straw, and were they up in arms because this internal combustion engine was going to put them out of a job?

Liz Allan  [00:26:54]:
Well, it's just progress. Yeah, you still have horse and carts.

Jonathan Porterfield [00:26:59]:
You see, I think in years to come we'll still have cars running around on this highly explosive liquid called petrol that you have to buy from a specialist, highly licensed chemist, that you can pour into your Ferrari to take it to a day out and then drive home and then mothball call it, and then drive an EV for the rest of the time. So I think we'll always see these old-fashioned, smelly internal combustion engine vehicles as antiques that people like me can reminisce about, but stand back and go, can't believe the stuff that's coming out the back of that. Oh, he's only got 10 minutes to run it, then he gets fined, so let's just enjoy the sound. Oh, he's got to turn it off.

Liz Allan  [00:27:41]:
But don't get behind it because otherwise you're going to get a gob full of smell, just that horrible, oh yeah, you know. And it is, and it probably, especially for like kids now, yeah, you know, so like the young kids at primary school, when they get older and it'd be like, you know, maybe not this generation, maybe, but you know, kind of further moving forwards, our, our kind of, um, kids' kids, you know, grandkids, great-grandkids, they'll be like, oh my God, this is just Ridiculous. Why, why did people do this? And why did they actually expose themselves to all of these, these things that they were breathing in? You know, but it's funny because my nephew came down with my great nephew, because I am old, um, about 3 weeks ago, and he's got this great big I, you'd know what it was, it was, it's a flipping Range Rover thing. And sorry, guys and ladies who are listening and going, she's rubbish at remembering cars, but I am. I like driving them. Anyway, this one was a Range Rover. It wasn't electric; he just changed to it. Gutted me last year, honestly.

Liz Allan  [00:28:52]:
But it was one of those with like, it sounded like, and he's 40, my nephew. Sorry, Adam, if you're listening, but you are. He won't be listening. It had really rasping exhaust, and it was, it was on purpose, it was like twin exhaust, and I was just like, oh my God. And he was telling me, and then basically we went into Reading, and Reading's congestion is horrendous. We should have kind of, I don't know whether we've, I think we've got some pollution sensors, but not in this, in some of the, you know, not in the same way as some of the other cities, towns and cities. But I could smell the pollution from one of the vehicles in front of me. He couldn't smell it, but I think maybe it's because I'm not driving a stinky car anymore, you know, and maybe my smell's tuned in more to that.

Liz Allan  [00:29:41]:
But yeah, and he's going, oh well, I've got a filter. I'm like, no filter could blooming stop this from coming in, come on. Yeah, but, but just talking about the way people think, going— not quite going back to dealerships, but what, what myths do we really need kind of nipping in the bud about EVs still? I mean, there's a lot, isn't there?

Jonathan Porterfield [00:30:05]:
Yeah, I think range, charging infrastructure, and the longevity of the battery packs are important. I think that's the other, that's the main thing that Joe Public, when I meet them incidentally and tell them what I did and what I do, they go, oh well, you know, there is, you can't drive very far. I'm in Spain. Well, you know, using the Tesla charging network on my e-Niro and my Tesla, I get a ping on my phone, and I've got to interrupt my meal to go back and move the car because it's finished charging. So it takes about 40 minutes, you know, it's too quick. I'm in Spain, looking for slower rapids so I've got time to do a shop around the local supermarket. I'll cover this video that's coming out tomorrow, actually. Actually, Tuesday night, called The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly Aspects of Charging in Spain.

Jonathan Porterfield [00:30:54]:
So, I cover that: some charges are too fast, so I look for slower ones. But anyway, I think they're the main things. The other great thing I like to see is high-mileage EVs, which helps dispel people's fears. So, 260,000-mile Tesla Model S for Johnny Smith from He's got The Late Brake Show on YouTube, right? So I've known Johnny for a few years through Robert Llewellyn. So I bought him a £5,000 Tesla Model S with 260,000 miles on it.

Liz Allan  [00:31:26]:
You talked about this on your YouTube channel because I, I was tuned into that one. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Jonathan Porterfield [00:31:31]:
Free supercharging. He just uses it as a tool when he drives around the country looking for barn finds. So he looks for old internal combustion engines in a barn and tries to get them running. It's very entertaining to watch. So I bought him that, and he absolutely loves it. And then just a couple of days ago, there was a YouTube video from EV Wales. He didn't do the video, but someone else did. It's called The Car Nut.

Jonathan Porterfield [00:31:54]:
Anyway, it was a '21 plate Kia e-Niro with 240,000 miles, ex-tank taxi. It was sold at BCA as a non-runner. So this EV mechanic in Wales bought it going, well, if there's something wrong with it, I can fix it. All that was wrong with it was a 12-volt battery.

Liz Allan  [00:32:20]:
Oh no. Oh my God, it's like a 12-volt battery. What? Was it sold as a non-runner?

Jonathan Porterfield [00:32:25]:
He bought it for £2,500. Oh God, it's a 21 plate Kia e-Niro. I'll send you the link for the video, it's very interesting. And basically goes out and drives it. There's a slight wheel bearing noise on one of the rear wheels. They looked underneath. It's the original battery pack from Kia, 240, 250,000 miles. Oh, it ran and is running perfectly, and he's going to keep it as a courtesy car for his EV customers who come in for a service. So I like to remote. You know, there are cars out there with moon mileage still on the same battery.

Liz Allan  [00:33:03]:
Yeah, yeah.

Jonathan Porterfield [00:33:05]:
I just can't emphasise enough: as time goes on, these better chemistry batteries will become the norm. So you're looking at the early Nissan Leafs, which had terrible, well, they had zero thermal management, poor battery chemistry. So yes, they did degrade. Particularly, the 30-kilowatt-hour Leaf. And people will read one story about degradation on a Nissan Leaf and think that applies to everything.

Liz Allan  [00:33:33]:
Yeah, yeah.

Jonathan Porterfield [00:33:34]:
And just trying to get the message across that some manufacturers like Hyundai, Kia, and Tesla have got amazing battery management systems where they're doing moon mileage miles on the same battery, and he did a state of health check on this Kia e-Niro. It's still at 100%.

Liz Allan  [00:33:56]:
I was going to ask you that.

Jonathan Porterfield [00:33:58]:
Because there's a buffer at the top of the battery. So there has been some degradation, but it's not actually seen in its range on the guess-o-meter in the car. Still did 260 miles on a full charge. It's just incredible. And it's the same battery pack. So that's one of the main hurdles I keep trying to bang on about: my YouTube channel, encouraging people to have the confidence to buy a £2,500 non-running Kia e-Niro from auction.

Liz Allan  [00:34:28]:
So just thinking about what you've just said on mileage there, and you said it's still on its original battery pack, and excuse my complete lack of knowledge on, on this for combustion engine cars, because I, my dad always used to used to say to me, when you get 200,000 miles on a petrol car, you have to swap it, do you know what I mean? And I always— and that always stayed in my head. So when I was ever heading towards 100,000, I'd kind of— I'd trade it in. Yeah. But what is the difference on average before anything like major engine wear and stuff like that? You know, we're talking 200-odd thousand for an electric. Where do we start getting into the combustion engine? How many miles before it totally goes?

Jonathan Porterfield [00:35:12]:
So each manufacturer is different. So famously at the moment, that's in the news, is the Ford EcoBoost engine, little 1-liter turbocharged engine in, in Fiesta and Focus and some Mondeos. Mondeos? It's not called Mondeo. Anyway, some of the large Fords.

Liz Allan  [00:35:30]:
Yeah.

Jonathan Porterfield [00:35:30]:
And it's about 20,000 miles, they've got what's called a wet belt system where the cam belt runs around in oil. And to cut a long story short, the oil degrades the rubber cam belt. Yeah, exactly, because it's rushing around, it's sloshing around.

Liz Allan  [00:35:45]:
Yeah.

Jonathan Porterfield [00:35:46]:
And of course, at about 25,000-30,000 miles, instead of calling it an EcoBoost, you call it an EcoBoom because the engine goes— so that's one end of the scale with an internal combustion engine on a modern engine. And then, on the other end, you've got the Lexuses and Toyotas of this world that will easily do 200,000 miles. Still, we are having the regular oil changes. So it just depends on which manufacturer, when it comes to petrol and diesel cars, has that known longevity. But as regards the motor trade, you're right, if anything that hits 100,000 miles, the value just drops suddenly because we drivers of a certain age. I, I remember I had a Ford Cortina, and it got to 60,000 miles, and you have to have a decoke, which meant taking the head off to make the valves sit in the valve seats tighter because they'd get buildup and they wouldn't seal and you'd lose compression and lose power and start burning oil and stuff. So you had a decoke at 60, and then that disappeared. And it's, but it's still now, you get a car with 100,000 miles and over, as soon as it reaches that, the value just plummets because of the mental psyche of the motor trade and the car buying public.

Jonathan Porterfield [00:37:07]:
So it's interesting, and that is carrying on now into EVs.

Liz Allan  [00:37:12]:
Yeah, people are worried, aren't they?

Jonathan Porterfield [00:37:13]:
The 100,000-Mile Kia e-Niro was only £2,500 as a non-runner because, I thought, well, the batteries had it, the motors had it, and all it was was a 12-volt battery. So you've got yourself a bargain. And Johnny Smith, 266,000 miles, has had, I think that's down to 89% state of health because that's been supercharged multiple times. Yeah, yeah, it's still, still on the original battery.

Liz Allan  [00:37:40]:
Yeah, I mean, that's, that in itself is amazing. And I know that at some point I I think from what I was talking to somebody a few months back on the podcast, and she was saying about, you know, insurance companies at the moment, if there's an issue with the battery, they'll replace the whole battery, and that's what the cost is. But really, you can take out an individual cell, but as long as you align it and you kind of balance it back again, you know, you.

Jonathan Porterfield [00:38:08]:
Can with certain cars. I don't think you can with the Kias. But I know Cleveland EV, I know them really well. So they've done battery upgrades and replaced cells on the 30- and 24-kilowatt-hour Leaf, and they are modular. You can take the pack apart, put in new modules, and then rebalance the whole pack to make it come back. And there are several companies now offering battery upgrades for the 24- and 30-kilowatt-hour Leaf, particularly from China. So you can now get packs of 50 kWh. Blimey.

Jonathan Porterfield [00:38:38]:
Nissan Leaf. That is— you've got to question whether that's worth it because it's like £35,000 on a car that might only be worth £4,000 or £5,000. So there is a market developing for battery upgrades as well as replacement cells, but I can't emphasise enough that it's only apparent at the moment in cars with early chemistry, like the Nissan Leaf.

Liz Allan  [00:39:06]:
Yeah, the others, the Renault Zoe, because that Renault's— yeah, Renault Zoe's batteries are.

Jonathan Porterfield [00:39:12]:
Okay, actually, because they've got basic thermal management. It's just, it's just the rest of the hardware on the Renault that's questionable. The onboard charger and the inverter and stuff like that can be really flaky on the Renaults, but battery-wis,e the Renaults are great. It's just the rest of the car that's a bit dodgy.

Liz Allan  [00:39:28]:
But can't So am I right? I have a feeling that the Renault Zoe, that you can still take that battery out and reuse it for, you know, kind of, um, battery storage. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Jonathan Porterfield [00:39:44]:
So, you know, there are no EV batteries in landfills as we speak. They're too valuable.

Liz Allan  [00:39:50]:
Yeah. And this, and this, do you know what, thinking about the, the kind of the questions that I've been asked and other people have been asked in, uh, in sessions as well, that they are about the, the minerals, that the questions that get asked are about, about kind of minerals and, and kind of, um, small kids down mines and things like that in wherever, but also the, the kind of the, the kind of the circular economy when it comes to batteries and things, things like that. But as you say, there's none, there's that, you know, they're, they're being used, aren't they? Like companies like Connected Energy up in the Northeast, you know, they're, they're kind of using old, like, Nissan Leaf or old Renault Zoe batteries to actually, you know, use for battery storage. For example, because the guy from Connected Energy was basically saying, you know, they can put them in a container and use them when they can't have a grid connection, when they need charging, as in, you know, EV charging. So you can use that as the backup, which, to me, is the innovation I love, you know, seeing it coming from a vehicle and going into all the things, you know. I've, I don't know whether you heard, a couple of years ago, um, there was a company, they were powering the, the main, one of the stages at Glastonbury. With batteries, you know. So that, to me, just makes a massive difference, doesn't it?

Jonathan Porterfield [00:41:22]:
And the other thing to consider is I know, um, oh dear, Euan McTurk really well. Euan McTurk, Plug Life TV on YouTube.

Liz Allan  [00:41:30]:
I know Euan, he's lovely. Dr. Euan.

Jonathan Porterfield [00:41:33]:
And he's just brilliant. He is a battery chemist, and what he doesn't know about batteries isn't worth knowing. Basically, he's done a video about a company, I think it's in Edinburgh, in Scotland somewhere, who recycle batteries. So you will get some batteries that have been in massive accidents, and the packs are all twisted or mangled or whatever, so there's no chance of actually using them because they're just too far gone. But he visited a company that basically takes out the cells, mashes them all up, extracts all those precious minerals and metals, and repurposes them. So there is, I think it's about 98% recyclable, the actual pouches themselves. So there's that industry that's growing. But again, I can't emphasise enough, you haven't really got enough packs to make it financially viable.

Jonathan Porterfield [00:42:25]:
They've done it with government funding to show that it can be done, but until there are more packs that have been in written-off cars and they're all mangled up, then they're not yet able to recycle them, which tells you everything you need to know, really. It will come into effect in 10, 15, or 20 years' time. They will have enough batteries to make a So, business. and.

Liz Allan  [00:42:48]:
At at least, least I was just thinking then, I was, I was actually watching something recently, and I'm, I'm just Googling it while we're speaking. Sorry, folks. But, and Jonathan, vapes, there was that, you know, there's, there's, um, there's minerals in vapes. Here we go: nickel, chromium, lead, copper, tin, zinc, aluminium, silicon, and other elements like manganese, cadmium, and iron. Um, they just get chucked away. Yeah, you know, so, so actually, for anybody who smokes it using vapes, that, you know, that there's a shed ton of blooming minerals in those that just literally get chucked.

Jonathan Porterfield [00:43:34]:
Yeah.

Liz Allan  [00:43:34]:
So, so, you know, it's, it's; yes, batteries are bigger, but at least there are things being done about them, you know.

Jonathan Porterfield [00:43:42]:
Don't get me started on vaping. Trying to clean up the city's air, and all these teenagers walking around with these vapes. It's just Anyway, bonkers. We're older humans. We're bonkers, aren't we?

Liz Allan  [00:43:52]:
I know, we just go from one thing to another and keep poisoning ourselves. But let's not talk about; I want to talk about Shoreham, because when you were talking, and I didn't actually say anything earlier, when you were talking BCA, you meant British Car Auctions, didn't you? For those of you who didn't know what that term was. But Shoreham Vehicle Auctions, you've been doing some stuff with them, and that's where I caught your YouTube channel probably a couple of months back now, and I was kind of like, oh, this is really interesting. It's Jonathan whom I've wanted to talk to. And then I sent you a message, didn't I, kind of going, you've got to join me on the podcast, please join me. But that— it's, it's so interesting because as I said, you're not really retired. You kind of are, poor Mrs P, you know.

Liz Allan  [00:44:37]:
You are in Spain right now, but you're everywhere; is it every Thursday you're on YouTube?

Jonathan Porterfield [00:44:44]:
They have a sale, and I put it on YouTube at 6 PM on Friday night for that week's sale. I've just eaten. So they'll have like, I don't know, 150 cars and perhaps 30 of them will be electric. So I just edit out the dirty, smelly ones and keep only the EVs, so people know what they're fetching at auction. And it's, it's popular, people like it. And sure, don't object to me videoing them. I did another video that's very popular, um, how BCA threatened me with legal action because I was doing their videos, and they basically said shut up or else. And BCA is part of the Constellation Group; they're massive, and they own webuyanycar.com and Singe and Marshall Group.

Jonathan Porterfield [00:45:26]:
And anyway, so long story short, I'm no longer allowed to video the selling prices at British Car Auctions for EVs Surem, like, bring it on. And they've had a number of my subscribers actually, on the back of my videos, go down the following week and stand in the hall, stick their hand in the air, and buy an EV, which pleases me greatly. I don't get anything out of it, so Surem are really embracing the fact that, um, they're happy for me to, to do the broadcast. And that culminated in the fact that I thought, well, when I go back up to the Channel Tunnel in early March, I'm not that far away from Shoreham. So wouldn't it be good, so contacted if: I Shoreham, the auctioneer, and the manager, and they went, yeah, bring it on, that'd be great. So I'm going to be there on.

Liz Allan  [00:46:15]:
The 12th of March. So let's talk about this, because it is important: Jonathan will be at Shoreham Vehicle Auctions on 12 March. Now actually, do you know what, this, this is going to go live before then. So if you're watching and listening, and you want to meet Jonathan and find out how vehicle auctions work, especially with regard to EVs, take note of what he's about to say.

Jonathan Porterfield [00:46:45]:
Yeah, so I'll be there on Wednesday for the preview because I'm going to Mike's do a show and I want to catch up and have a natter, but I'm happy to show people around the auction on Wednesday. Thursday is the actual sale. So, so far I've got 21,000 subscribers, I think. So 21,000 people are going to turn up. So there are about 8 that have messaged me via YouTube to say they're definitely 100% going to be there. 2 or 3 will be there on Wednesday because they can't make it on Thursday. So I've had a number of people say, ' Well, I'm not going to buy, but can come down anyway and watch.' So I said yeah, and I'm there to help people see what I'd look for and just to give them a general idea of the whole vibe, so they give them the confidence to go themselves. So I'll be there on the 12th.

Jonathan Porterfield [00:47:33]:
The reason I'm not there every week is that it's 800 miles from Orkney.

Liz Allan  [00:47:36]:
Yeah, it's a bit of a long way, really, isn't it?

Jonathan Porterfield [00:47:38]:
Yeah, I'll pop down every Thursday.

Liz Allan  [00:47:40]:
I think Mrs P might be a little bit peeved.

Jonathan Porterfield [00:47:43]:
We're staying in a spa hotel in the Midlands, so I'm going to leave her there for the day and then drive back to Shoreham. So, my God, so she's going to be happy.

Liz Allan  [00:47:52]:
Well, as long as she is, as long as she's all right. So, so you; so let's just because, yeah, you've got 21,100 subs, which is fantastic. You've got 981 videos on your YouTube channel, so just search up Jonathan.

Jonathan Porterfield [00:48:08]:
At night, you can't sleep; there are lots of software videos there. 

Liz Allan  [00:48:14]:
I was going to say, so, so the first day you're going to be there, it's, you've kind of said, and everybody, I would, you know, check out the video where he's talking about what he's going to do at Shoreham, because you basically said that you're going to, you're going to kind of be there, and if any of your YouTube subscribers turn up, you're kind of going to chat to them about what to look for, but then you'll be there on the day of the auction as well. Well, weren't you?

Jonathan Porterfield [00:48:40]:
Yeah, that's right. I'm going to stay for that. I'm going to do a video vlog about it as well, and hopefully, the people who are there are happy to be on camera. So yeah, we're just gonna wing it, basically, see what happens. But I'm keen to let people know that buying from auction isn't that dangerous, particularly when they're ex-lease. The days in the '60s and '70s were the only time when the only cars that went through an auction were really dodgy examples, and there's a story behind it. But with leased cars, they just want to dispose of the asset, liquidate the cash, and get it back. So with leased cars, particularly if they're still in warranty, all you've got to look at is the condition, tread depth of the tyres, and that's it.

Jonathan Porterfield [00:49:27]:
As I said at the top of the interview, there's no clutch to worry about, no service, and no fuel filters or all the usual gambits. You're not going to start it and listen for the engine knocking. Um, so it's a safe bet buying from an auction, and I just want to help people get a hands-on experience.

Liz Allan  [00:49:45]:
What I look for. And somebody like me, so the general public, we can jump, you can go to Shoreham Vehicle Auctions, which is www.shorehamvehicleauctions.com. You can put in the auction date, can't you? And then, um, I can't remember what the, so there's a filter you have to add, isn't there?

Jonathan Porterfield [00:50:04]:
Isn't it fuel type? So just click electric, then show all, and you'll see all the electric cars coming through.

Liz Allan  [00:50:11]:
And is it— did you say, is it only on a Thursday that they bring the EVs in, or is that—.

Jonathan Porterfield [00:50:16]:
Actually, there's a Thursday, actually Monday, there's some part exchanges, there's a, uh, an old 24-kilowatt-hour Nissan Leaf. That's a dealer part exchange, which might be okay, but it's— in my mind, it's a little bit risky when it's a dealer part exchange. That's why I prefer ex-lease.

Liz Allan  [00:50:33]:
But you, so you can see a lot more than the general public.

Jonathan Porterfield [00:50:36]:
But we can— you need an account. So I can see what's called the cap values. Yes, the trade values of clean, average, and really below average condition, so I can see those. But you can log in and look at the condition of the vehicles before you go down. And if you were to go down yourself without me there, basically, you pay a £500 deposit to Shoreham, which you get back if you don't buy, and that gives you a catalogue. And within the catalogue, you will see the prices for those particular cars.

Liz Allan  [00:51:10]:
Yeah, but probably, and it'd be an idea to do what I did, which is watching you kind of as each one was going through and sort of just getting to understand a little bit about, you know, because I like, I like it when you call it bread and butter week because you've kind of got bread and butter week, which is kind of various— is it like your Nissan Leafs and stuff like that?

Jonathan Porterfield [00:51:30]:
Yeah, yeah.

Liz Allan  [00:51:32]:
But at the moment, I can see there's a Tesla Model 3 Long Range for this Thursday, with 34,500 miles on it, and it's a 71 plate. Then there's a 2022 Model 3, um, that's 20— yeah, so that's got 34,000 on it. So there's a lot, there's a flipping lot of Teslas. BMW.

Jonathan Porterfield [00:51:56]:
Yeah, and right at the end of that list, Liz, there's a nice Kona from Zenith. It's got 60,000 miles. That's capping at about £10,000. And now a Kona, 64 kilowatt-hour, it's like the slight facelift one. That's a cracking value car. You can actually see on the dashboard the previous driver got 4.1 miles per kilowatt hour. Wow. Which is, which is normal for a Kona or a Kia.

Jonathan Porterfield [00:52:22]:
That is a cracking buy. So I, I like— I look at these every Sunday and do a quick overview. There's a Volkswagen e-up there as a Cracking EV as well.

Liz Allan  [00:52:33]:
So there's a Polestar 2 on here as well with 75,000 on it, a '71 plate.

Jonathan Porterfield [00:52:38]:
Yeah, but.

Liz Allan  [00:52:41]:
Yeah, just have a look. For those of you listening, watching, and who are interested, I am definitely interested. I just want to understand all of this stuff. And Jonathan's great when it comes to when you watch the video, and he's kind of going through all the different cars, and you're sharing your screen at the same time, aren't you? So you can see, we can see what you see. So actually understanding what the cap value is and the things to look for and all that kind of stuff, which you can't drill down into the same, into it in the same way as Jonathan can, but you can have a look at various things, can't you? You can have a look at kind of, um, you know, I'm just looking at it as a Mini hatchback here.

Jonathan Porterfield [00:53:21]:
It's green, green, isn't it?

Liz Allan  [00:53:23]:
Yeah, that's quite nice. So that's a '72 plate, it's got 27,400 miles on it. And well, I'll be— yeah, it was a bit like going down a flipping rabbit hole, but it basically says what the carpet condition is, the seat condition is, the upholstery. But all of those things can be, unless you've got flipping sorry for those, cigarette burns or stupid things, you know, burns on the seat, then most of these things can be managed, can't they? You know, it shows you the charging cable, the granny cable that's in there. So there's some really Good stuff. And this is another reason I wanted to get you on here: I just thought, actually, this is information people need to know. I think the other thing, just very.

Jonathan Porterfield [00:54:09]:
Quickly, it's the Renault Zoe, and it's something I try to emphasise, check it's got CCS rapid charging, because a lot of Zoes, 50 kilowatt-hour Zoes, don't have CCS.

Liz Allan  [00:54:21]:
Oh God.

Jonathan Porterfield [00:54:22]:
Over the years, I've driven into Shoreham just to take a photo of the charge flap open, showing the CCS port.

Liz Allan  [00:54:30]:
That's a good idea.

Jonathan Porterfield [00:54:31]:
I always try to emphasise that when I'm looking at a Zoe, I check to see if it's got a heat pack because you can spot some switches on the dash, whether it's got the big screen or the little screen, and whether it's got CCS rapid charging. So, nuances like that that I try to get across in the video.

Liz Allan  [00:54:48]:
I think that's really important. And, you know, just to kind of, as you say, share that. And yeah, please do, please do check, check out what Jonathan's been doing. I'm gonna, I'm gonna ask you one final question. Even though you're supposed to be slowing down, if you were starting again today, knowing what you know now, would you still decide to work in this space?

Jonathan Porterfield [00:55:16]:
I would. There are so many more dealers doing what I was doing, and they're good dealers all over the country. So the word is getting out there, a lot of people are picking it up and running with it. So it's a more crowded space, shall we say. And yeah, it's probably a little bit more difficult to make their living now than it was then. Um, but I think I'd still carry on with a buy-to-order. It's just, yeah, I would do it again. I'm just, I'm just ready to retire.

Liz Allan  [00:55:50]:
Of course you are, absolutely.

Jonathan Porterfield [00:55:53]:
And you know, not having the pressure is nice. So I enjoy making videos, but I'm, I'm happy where I am. But I would have no regrets. I thank my wife for coming up with the word Eco Cars all those years ago, and I thank her for the, the inspiration and the, and the push she gave me to start doing car dealing back in 2004. It's her fault, really.

Liz Allan  [00:56:16]:
Which is, yeah, well, she's not been in the background. She is in the background somewhere. She's trying to keep him very quiet. She told you about, yeah, I know, I know. She kind of said something at one point. She seems; she sounds an absolute gem, honestly.

Jonathan Porterfield [00:56:32]:
She's a very long-suffering wife.

Liz Allan  [00:56:35]:
I think we all are, darling, you know. Sorry, Rich. Um, but anyway, listen, it's been an absolute joy to, to speak to you. I am, I'm definitely going to try and get down to Shoreham in March, and I'm hoping, I'm hoping that, that more people from watching this, you know, I'll be able to see what you're doing. It's brilliant. Just, you know, you are such a kind person. It's, it's lovely. And you do it because you, you know, you want, you want to share that information, the same way as me, but just different, different kind of platform, different stuff. And you've got a lot more subs than I have anyway, so.

Liz Allan  [00:57:14]:
But look, listen, thank you, Jonathan, and enjoy your drive back via all those places you're going to have a nosy at tomorrow.

Jonathan Porterfield [00:57:24]:
Thank you, Liz.

Liz Allan  [00:57:25]:
Thank you, my darling. And listen, everybody, I will share all of Jonathan's links, but just as a final point, please do all the things I always ask you— like subscribe and share. Let more people know, you know, about the channel, about, you know, Jonathan. And check out our Electric Evolution LinkedIn page as well, and you can see updates on there. So thanks for watching and listening, and I'll see you later. Bye-bye.