{"version":"1.0.0","segments":[{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":0.0,"endTime":2.52,"body":"One question I"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":0.0,"endTime":2.52,"body":"like to ask, the titling of"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2.52,"endTime":7.98,"body":"these I'm titling them \"The\""},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2.52,"endTime":7.98,"body":"something. So the ethical"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":7.98,"endTime":12.15,"body":"negotiator just did one, the"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":7.98,"endTime":12.15,"body":"refugee real estate mogul. If"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":12.15,"endTime":17.52,"body":"you had a the title, what would"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":12.15,"endTime":17.52,"body":"be your ideal title be?"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":17.55,"endTime":19.65,"body":"Sexiest"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":17.55,"endTime":19.65,"body":"Man Alive has been taken right?"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":23.85,"endTime":26.49,"body":"In this episode,"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":23.85,"endTime":26.49,"body":"you'll get to know Michael"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":26.49,"endTime":30.81,"body":"Bungay Stanier. The million copy"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":26.49,"endTime":30.81,"body":"bestselling author, and you'll"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":30.81,"endTime":34.53,"body":"hear the story of how he"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":30.81,"endTime":34.53,"body":"consistently chose to stand out"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":34.53,"endTime":39.24,"body":"and be a little bit quirky, to"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":34.53,"endTime":39.24,"body":"build a wildly successful career"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":39.45,"endTime":44.46,"body":"as a writer. I'm Dave Crenshaw,"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":39.45,"endTime":44.46,"body":"and this is my success project."},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":49.41,"endTime":52.89,"body":"Welcome back to the Dave"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":49.41,"endTime":52.89,"body":"Crenshaw Success Project. This"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":52.89,"endTime":56.73,"body":"is the show where I'm teaching"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":52.89,"endTime":56.73,"body":"my children how to be successful"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":56.73,"endTime":59.73,"body":"through the life stories of"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":56.73,"endTime":59.73,"body":"others. But you get to come"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":59.73,"endTime":63.72,"body":"along for the ride, just in case"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":59.73,"endTime":63.72,"body":"it's your first time here. I am"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":63.72,"endTime":66.39,"body":"Dave Crenshaw, I'm a best"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":63.72,"endTime":66.39,"body":"selling author. And I speak"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":66.39,"endTime":70.02,"body":"around the world to Fortune 500"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":66.39,"endTime":70.02,"body":"companies. I've also taught"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":70.02,"endTime":73.29,"body":"millions of people how to be"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":70.02,"endTime":73.29,"body":"successful through my online"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":73.29,"endTime":78.15,"body":"courses on places like LinkedIn"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":73.29,"endTime":78.15,"body":"learning. And I'm a husband and"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":78.15,"endTime":83.04,"body":"a father of three, my children"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":78.15,"endTime":83.04,"body":"mean the world to me. So when I"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":83.04,"endTime":85.86,"body":"thought about the idea of"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":83.04,"endTime":85.86,"body":"creating a podcast, I didn't get"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":85.86,"endTime":90.0,"body":"excited, until I thought about"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":85.86,"endTime":90.0,"body":"the idea of leaving a legacy for"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":90.0,"endTime":93.81,"body":"them. Now, don't be fooled. This"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":90.0,"endTime":93.81,"body":"show is for adults, too. It's"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":93.81,"endTime":98.52,"body":"for you, because I thought you'd"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":93.81,"endTime":98.52,"body":"enjoy learning along with my"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":98.52,"endTime":103.08,"body":"family. And I also try to get"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":98.52,"endTime":103.08,"body":"guests who have balanced success"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":103.26,"endTime":106.41,"body":"in multiple areas of their"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":103.26,"endTime":106.41,"body":"lives, not just financial or in"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":106.41,"endTime":110.76,"body":"their career. In fact, I believe"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":106.41,"endTime":110.76,"body":"there are six facets of success."},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":111.39,"endTime":114.03,"body":"Think about how you're doing in"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":111.39,"endTime":114.03,"body":"each of these six areas,"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":114.33,"endTime":119.01,"body":"relationships, health, your"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":114.33,"endTime":119.01,"body":"profession, or your Career,"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":119.37,"endTime":124.26,"body":"Money, a cause as in a"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":119.37,"endTime":124.26,"body":"charitable cause, and fun,"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":124.35,"endTime":127.92,"body":"enjoying the success that you're"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":124.35,"endTime":127.92,"body":"having. If you can have success"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":128.01,"endTime":132.33,"body":"in all of those areas. You have"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":128.01,"endTime":132.33,"body":"multifaceted success, and that"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":132.33,"endTime":136.2,"body":"shines like a diamond. That's"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":132.33,"endTime":136.2,"body":"the kind of success. I want to"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":136.2,"endTime":141.12,"body":"help my children, my family and"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":136.2,"endTime":141.12,"body":"help you find. And that's what"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":141.12,"endTime":145.02,"body":"the Success project is all"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":141.12,"endTime":145.02,"body":"about. As you go through this"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":145.02,"endTime":148.38,"body":"episode, I want you to do one"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":145.02,"endTime":148.38,"body":"thing and do it for yourself."},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":148.5,"endTime":152.61,"body":"Look for one action you can"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":148.5,"endTime":152.61,"body":"take. In other words, as you"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":152.61,"endTime":156.78,"body":"hear the story of Michael Bungay"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":152.61,"endTime":156.78,"body":"Stanier. Listen for something"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":156.78,"endTime":161.7,"body":"that you can do today, this"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":156.78,"endTime":161.7,"body":"week, so that you make what you"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":161.7,"endTime":164.85,"body":"hear from him a part of your"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":161.7,"endTime":164.85,"body":"life. And today's guest is"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":164.85,"endTime":168.75,"body":"someone you're going to want to"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":164.85,"endTime":168.75,"body":"keep with you forever. Michael"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":168.75,"endTime":173.82,"body":"Bungay Stanier, known to his"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":168.75,"endTime":173.82,"body":"friends as MBS is the author of"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":173.82,"endTime":177.93,"body":"six books, which between them"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":173.82,"endTime":177.93,"body":"have sold more than a million"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":177.93,"endTime":182.82,"body":"copies. He's best known for the"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":177.93,"endTime":182.82,"body":"Coaching Habit, the best selling"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":182.82,"endTime":185.43,"body":"coaching book, not of the year,"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":182.82,"endTime":185.43,"body":"not of the decade, but of the"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":185.43,"endTime":189.21,"body":"century. And it's already"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":185.43,"endTime":189.21,"body":"recognized as a classic. I've"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":189.21,"endTime":193.56,"body":"learned a ton from that book. He"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":189.21,"endTime":193.56,"body":"also founded Box of Crayons, a"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":193.56,"endTime":197.91,"body":"learning and development company"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":193.56,"endTime":197.91,"body":"that helps organizations move"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":197.94,"endTime":204.18,"body":"from advice driven to curiosity"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":197.94,"endTime":204.18,"body":"led, they've trained hundreds of"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":204.18,"endTime":207.78,"body":"1000s of managers to be more"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":204.18,"endTime":207.78,"body":"coach like, and their clients"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":207.78,"endTime":212.52,"body":"range from Microsoft to Gucci."},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":207.78,"endTime":212.52,"body":"Michael was a Rhodes Scholar,"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":212.52,"endTime":216.72,"body":"we're going to hear about that"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":212.52,"endTime":216.72,"body":"story. And he plays the ukulele"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":216.72,"endTime":220.98,"body":"as he says badly. He's"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":216.72,"endTime":220.98,"body":"Australian. He lives in Toronto,"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":220.98,"endTime":224.49,"body":"Canada. And he has also a"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":220.98,"endTime":224.49,"body":"fantastic course on LinkedIn"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":224.49,"endTime":229.65,"body":"learning. Please welcome the"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":224.49,"endTime":229.65,"body":"curious coach, Michael Bungay"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":229.65,"endTime":230.34,"body":"Stanier."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":230.4,"endTime":232.32,"body":"Dave,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":230.4,"endTime":232.32,"body":"I'm super flattered to be asked."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":232.35,"endTime":232.83,"body":"Thank you."},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":233.07,"endTime":235.32,"body":"And you are"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":233.07,"endTime":235.32,"body":"always traveling around the"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":235.32,"endTime":237.93,"body":"world. Where are we reaching you"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":235.32,"endTime":237.93,"body":"right now? Where are you at?"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":237.99,"endTime":239.76,"body":"I mean,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":237.99,"endTime":239.76,"body":"my home little office in"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":239.79,"endTime":242.85,"body":"Toronto, Canada. I mean, I'm"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":239.79,"endTime":242.85,"body":"Australian, by birth lived in"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":242.85,"endTime":245.79,"body":"England for a while and the"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":242.85,"endTime":245.79,"body":"States for a while. For the last"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":245.79,"endTime":249.57,"body":"20 years or so. I've been living"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":245.79,"endTime":249.57,"body":"in Toronto, getting increasingly"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":249.57,"endTime":252.33,"body":"grumpy about winters. And I"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":249.57,"endTime":252.33,"body":"don't love them as much as my"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":252.33,"endTime":255.66,"body":"wife wants to love them. But I'm"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":252.33,"endTime":255.66,"body":"happy to be here."},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":255.93,"endTime":258.18,"body":"I hear you about"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":255.93,"endTime":258.18,"body":"Utah. You know, I've grown up"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":258.18,"endTime":261.21,"body":"here. But after a while those"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":258.18,"endTime":261.21,"body":"winters start to add up, don't"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":261.21,"endTime":261.48,"body":"they?"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":262.019,"endTime":263.969,"body":"We see"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":262.019,"endTime":263.969,"body":"winters my wife's favorite"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":263.969,"endTime":268.589,"body":"season. And she's very excited"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":263.969,"endTime":268.589,"body":"to be here in winter. And for"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":268.619,"endTime":271.349,"body":"literally 30 years. It's 30"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":268.619,"endTime":271.349,"body":"years almost to the day since"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":271.349,"endTime":275.189,"body":"our first day. And she's been"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":271.349,"endTime":275.189,"body":"spent 20 years and here in"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":275.189,"endTime":278.279,"body":"Canada go you look you are going"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":275.189,"endTime":278.279,"body":"to come to love winter. And"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":278.279,"endTime":281.129,"body":"suddenly two years ago, I'm"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":278.279,"endTime":281.129,"body":"like, Wait, this is marketing"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":281.159,"endTime":283.199,"body":"and I'm not going to come in"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":281.159,"endTime":283.199,"body":"love with that. I don't like"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":283.199,"endTime":287.699,"body":"winter. So we're very compatible"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":283.199,"endTime":287.699,"body":"in almost every single way but"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":287.789,"endTime":290.429,"body":"does have preferred temperature"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":287.789,"endTime":290.429,"body":"not so much."},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":290.94,"endTime":292.5,"body":"I love that. I"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":290.94,"endTime":292.5,"body":"think that's going to be the"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":292.5,"endTime":299.94,"body":"byline for this show. Wait, this"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":292.5,"endTime":299.94,"body":"is marketing. The truth? Yes."},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":300.48,"endTime":303.24,"body":"Okay, so I always like to start"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":300.48,"endTime":303.24,"body":"in a fun place with these"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":303.24,"endTime":305.91,"body":"interviews, Michael. And as I"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":303.24,"endTime":305.91,"body":"mentioned, you know, I'm sharing"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":305.91,"endTime":308.94,"body":"insights from your story with my"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":305.91,"endTime":308.94,"body":"kids, but everybody else gets to"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":308.94,"endTime":311.97,"body":"come along for the ride. But I"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":308.94,"endTime":311.97,"body":"always love this question, which"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":311.97,"endTime":315.63,"body":"is, where did you see your"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":311.97,"endTime":315.63,"body":"career going? When you were"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":315.63,"endTime":318.36,"body":"growing up? Let's say you were"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":315.63,"endTime":318.36,"body":"in high school, not when you"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":318.36,"endTime":321.3,"body":"were, you know, in grade school,"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":318.36,"endTime":321.3,"body":"everybody says, an astronaut or"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":321.3,"endTime":323.37,"body":"whatever. for that. I'm talking"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":321.3,"endTime":323.37,"body":"about when you were in high"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":323.37,"endTime":326.04,"body":"school, you started plotting out"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":323.37,"endTime":326.04,"body":"the future, what did you see"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":326.04,"endTime":326.97,"body":"yourself becoming?"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":327.45,"endTime":330.15,"body":"I was"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":327.45,"endTime":330.15,"body":"utterly oblivious to the future,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":330.18,"endTime":335.85,"body":"Dave? Okay. I remember being in"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":330.18,"endTime":335.85,"body":"year 12, my final year in high"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":335.85,"endTime":339.84,"body":"school, and we got handed out"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":335.85,"endTime":339.84,"body":"the paper forms to apply for"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":339.84,"endTime":343.98,"body":"university. And I suddenly"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":339.84,"endTime":343.98,"body":"realized I had not single"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":343.98,"endTime":347.88,"body":"moments thought about what I"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":343.98,"endTime":347.88,"body":"would study at university. Wow,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":347.94,"endTime":352.11,"body":"oh, say, Oh, my goodness. And I"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":347.94,"endTime":352.11,"body":"grew up in Canberra, which is"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":352.11,"endTime":356.01,"body":"Australia's national capital,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":352.11,"endTime":356.01,"body":"okay. And it is a city that was"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":356.01,"endTime":358.89,"body":"built in the 1920s. Because"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":356.01,"endTime":358.89,"body":"Sydney and Melbourne, the two"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":358.89,"endTime":362.55,"body":"big cities in Australia, were"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":358.89,"endTime":362.55,"body":"kind of fighting over who would"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":362.55,"endTime":366.42,"body":"become the capital of Australia."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":362.55,"endTime":366.42,"body":"And they couldn't come to a"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":366.42,"endTime":368.85,"body":"decision. So they decided to"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":366.42,"endTime":368.85,"body":"build Canberra in the middle. So"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":368.85,"endTime":371.22,"body":"it's a kind of artificially"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":368.85,"endTime":371.22,"body":"built city."},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":371.67,"endTime":374.07,"body":"And there's a lot"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":371.67,"endTime":374.07,"body":"of space in Australia to to"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":374.07,"endTime":374.67,"body":"build something"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":374.76,"endTime":377.07,"body":"exactly"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":374.76,"endTime":377.07,"body":"build on on sheep paddocks, as"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":377.07,"endTime":380.97,"body":"we would say, sheep fields and"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":377.07,"endTime":380.97,"body":"limestone plains. And Canberra"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":380.97,"endTime":384.36,"body":"is very much a government town,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":380.97,"endTime":384.36,"body":"it is full of people who are"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":384.39,"endTime":387.3,"body":"civil servants, public servants,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":384.39,"endTime":387.3,"body":"and my parents were both of"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":387.3,"endTime":392.61,"body":"that. And so I grew up just"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":387.3,"endTime":392.61,"body":"expecting that I would do that,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":392.61,"endTime":395.49,"body":"because I didn't have any role"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":392.61,"endTime":395.49,"body":"models to do anything else. So"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":395.52,"endTime":398.7,"body":"get a job in the government and"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":395.52,"endTime":398.7,"body":"have a 40 year career and"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":398.73,"endTime":404.34,"body":"hopefully get promoted and 65 or"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":398.73,"endTime":404.34,"body":"something retire. And it"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":404.34,"endTime":408.63,"body":"actually took the good luck of"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":404.34,"endTime":408.63,"body":"me winning a Rhodes scholarship"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":408.66,"endTime":412.44,"body":"that disrupted that, and got me"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":408.66,"endTime":412.44,"body":"going to England and just took"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":412.44,"endTime":417.09,"body":"me down a whole different path."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":412.44,"endTime":417.09,"body":"But I had not a single idea of"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":417.09,"endTime":419.94,"body":"what I would be when I grew up"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":417.09,"endTime":419.94,"body":"when I was in high school."},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":420.51,"endTime":422.31,"body":"Okay, so you said"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":420.51,"endTime":422.31,"body":"something there that I got to"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":422.31,"endTime":426.33,"body":"latch on to you said the good"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":422.31,"endTime":426.33,"body":"luck of a Rhodes scholarship,"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":426.36,"endTime":430.86,"body":"there's a lot more than luck"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":426.36,"endTime":430.86,"body":"going into something that and"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":430.86,"endTime":433.74,"body":"for those who are not familiar"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":430.86,"endTime":433.74,"body":"with a Rhodes scholarship, can"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":433.74,"endTime":434.91,"body":"you explain what that is?"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":435.15,"endTime":436.95,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":435.15,"endTime":436.95,"body":"you should think of us as the"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":436.95,"endTime":441.24,"body":"chosen ones, the brightest, most"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":436.95,"endTime":441.24,"body":"brilliant, best looking people"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":441.24,"endTime":444.66,"body":"you're ever likely to meet. But"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":441.24,"endTime":444.66,"body":"all of us most, I'm the"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":444.69,"endTime":448.35,"body":"exception to that rule. But many"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":444.69,"endTime":448.35,"body":"of us are like that. So a Rhodes"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":448.35,"endTime":451.38,"body":"scholarship started by Cecil"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":448.35,"endTime":451.38,"body":"Rhodes, the same guy who gave"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":451.38,"endTime":454.74,"body":"his name to Rhodesia. Now,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":451.38,"endTime":454.74,"body":"Zimbabwe, you know, he made his"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":454.74,"endTime":460.83,"body":"fortune mining diamonds in"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":454.74,"endTime":460.83,"body":"Rhodesia. And his legacy is"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":460.83,"endTime":464.31,"body":"really the scholarship. And it"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":460.83,"endTime":464.31,"body":"is really meant to try and"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":464.34,"endTime":468.66,"body":"select future leaders, people"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":464.34,"endTime":468.66,"body":"who are smart and sporting and"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":468.9,"endTime":473.85,"body":"contribute to their communities"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":468.9,"endTime":473.85,"body":"at university level to come and"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":473.85,"endTime":478.62,"body":"do another university degree at"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":473.85,"endTime":478.62,"body":"Oxford, whether that's another"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":478.65,"endTime":482.73,"body":"BA, and undergraduate degree or"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":478.65,"endTime":482.73,"body":"masters or a PhD. Okay, so"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":482.73,"endTime":485.16,"body":"a second degree"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":482.73,"endTime":485.16,"body":"at Oxford, it's always going to"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":485.16,"endTime":487.77,"body":"be a second degree. Yeah. Okay."},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":485.16,"endTime":487.77,"body":"Very interesting. So"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":487.77,"endTime":491.55,"body":"I didn't"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":487.77,"endTime":491.55,"body":"know that. Yeah. So my dad grew"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":491.55,"endTime":495.06,"body":"up in Oxford, and went to"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":491.55,"endTime":495.06,"body":"Oxford, in part because he was a"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":495.06,"endTime":499.83,"body":"local boy. And when I was 14, my"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":495.06,"endTime":499.83,"body":"Latin teacher because I studied"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":499.83,"endTime":503.1,"body":"Latin painfully for six years."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":499.83,"endTime":503.1,"body":"Mr. Lennox said, so what are you"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":503.1,"endTime":506.91,"body":"doing after high school? And I"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":503.1,"endTime":506.91,"body":"went, Well, I think I'm gonna go"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":506.91,"endTime":511.02,"body":"study at Oxford University. He"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":506.91,"endTime":511.02,"body":"raised his eyebrows, only"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":511.02,"endTime":513.09,"body":"because I didn't even know what"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":511.02,"endTime":513.09,"body":"that meant. But let's meet my"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":513.09,"endTime":515.88,"body":"dad when I was like, he's a good"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":513.09,"endTime":515.88,"body":"guy. I'll follow in his"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":515.88,"endTime":519.12,"body":"footsteps. And Mr. Lewis said,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":515.88,"endTime":519.12,"body":"Well, you need to win a road"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":519.12,"endTime":524.22,"body":"scholarship. And I was like,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":519.12,"endTime":524.22,"body":"note it. And I actually then"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":524.22,"endTime":527.85,"body":"started doing things that would"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":524.22,"endTime":527.85,"body":"make it more likely rather than"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":527.85,"endTime":530.49,"body":"less likely that I would win a"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":527.85,"endTime":530.49,"body":"road scholarship. So I kept in"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":530.49,"endTime":534.63,"body":"teams, and I was a prefect, and"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":530.49,"endTime":534.63,"body":"I did this and I did that. And I"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":534.63,"endTime":538.53,"body":"did the same through university."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":534.63,"endTime":538.53,"body":"And so I applied in my I think,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":538.53,"endTime":542.01,"body":"third or fourth year at"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":538.53,"endTime":542.01,"body":"university in Australia. I was"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":542.07,"endTime":545.76,"body":"excited and I went and checked"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":542.07,"endTime":545.76,"body":"out the process and she a woman"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":545.76,"endTime":548.97,"body":"behind the desk, when you apply,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":545.76,"endTime":548.97,"body":"everybody gets a first round"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":548.97,"endTime":553.14,"body":"interview, and then we get it"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":548.97,"endTime":553.14,"body":"down to a shortlist. And then we"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":553.17,"endTime":555.66,"body":"kind of decided that the two"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":553.17,"endTime":555.66,"body":"people who in this caution,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":555.9,"endTime":560.67,"body":"great, so I filled out my"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":555.9,"endTime":560.67,"body":"application. I was pretty cocky."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":560.7,"endTime":564.09,"body":"I thought, Oh, I'm in with a"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":560.7,"endTime":564.09,"body":"chance. And I got a letter back."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":564.12,"endTime":567.66,"body":"I didn't even get an interview"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":564.12,"endTime":567.66,"body":"in the first round. Okay,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":567.75,"endTime":570.81,"body":"somewhat depressing because the"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":567.75,"endTime":570.81,"body":"woman had said everybody gets an"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":570.81,"endTime":573.39,"body":"interview. I was like, okay, so"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":570.81,"endTime":573.39,"body":"I was literally the worst"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":573.39,"endTime":578.1,"body":"applicant of everybody who"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":573.39,"endTime":578.1,"body":"applied so no problem. And so I"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":578.1,"endTime":581.34,"body":"went away and lick my wounds for"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":578.1,"endTime":581.34,"body":"a bit and then two years later,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":581.61,"endTime":585.27,"body":"with a little more focus and a"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":581.61,"endTime":585.27,"body":"little more craft and a little"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":585.27,"endTime":592.23,"body":"more wisdom, I reapplied so many"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":585.27,"endTime":592.23,"body":"times I almost snatched defeat"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":592.23,"endTime":595.29,"body":"from the jaws of victory dive I"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":592.23,"endTime":595.29,"body":"mean, literally the day before."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":595.56,"endTime":598.26,"body":"We all went and had dinner at"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":595.56,"endTime":598.26,"body":"Parliament House like going to"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":598.26,"endTime":602.07,"body":"have dinner in the White House"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":598.26,"endTime":602.07,"body":"in the US. That's a big deal. So"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":602.07,"endTime":605.67,"body":"we all get taken in to a bit of"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":602.07,"endTime":605.67,"body":"a nightmare because there's a 10"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":605.67,"endTime":609.24,"body":"people on the selection panel"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":605.67,"endTime":609.24,"body":"and 10 people on the shortlist."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":609.36,"endTime":611.61,"body":"And so of course all of us on"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":609.36,"endTime":611.61,"body":"the shortlist we're all trying"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":611.61,"endTime":615.69,"body":"to be marvelously entertaining."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":611.61,"endTime":615.69,"body":"And super, why is this"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":615.69,"endTime":622.05,"body":"performative aspect dinner which"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":615.69,"endTime":622.05,"body":"was her excuse excruciating, but"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":622.05,"endTime":625.65,"body":"in a kind of in a relaxed way,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":622.05,"endTime":625.65,"body":"you know, you can't overplay it,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":625.65,"endTime":628.65,"body":"but you have to sort of try and"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":625.65,"endTime":628.65,"body":"defeat. It's like being voted"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":628.65,"endTime":632.22,"body":"off the island. I mean, it's"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":628.65,"endTime":632.22,"body":"competitive. And I was like,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":632.25,"endTime":635.31,"body":"I'm, I'm just not a challenge."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":632.25,"endTime":635.31,"body":"These are all very brilliant"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":635.31,"endTime":638.16,"body":"people. So I thought to myself,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":635.31,"endTime":638.16,"body":"what I'm going to do is I'm"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":638.16,"endTime":641.28,"body":"going to steal a teaspoon from"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":638.16,"endTime":641.28,"body":"Parliament House, and it will be"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":641.28,"endTime":645.66,"body":"my little trophy of my time when"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":641.28,"endTime":645.66,"body":"I attempted to get a Rhodes"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":645.66,"endTime":649.38,"body":"scholarship. Anyway, I forgot I"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":645.66,"endTime":649.38,"body":"meant to slip it into my top"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":649.38,"endTime":652.2,"body":"pocket, but I forgot, which"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":649.38,"endTime":652.2,"body":"turned out to be a good thing,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":652.2,"endTime":654.24,"body":"because when you leave"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":652.2,"endTime":654.24,"body":"Parliament House, you walk"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":654.24,"endTime":655.65,"body":"through metal detectors."},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":655.83,"endTime":659.1,"body":"Yes. I would have"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":655.83,"endTime":659.1,"body":"been wondering about that. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":659.76,"endTime":660.81,"body":"I would"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":659.76,"endTime":660.81,"body":"have I would have been"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":660.81,"endTime":664.95,"body":"disqualified for being a"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":660.81,"endTime":664.95,"body":"kleptomaniac and a series of"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":664.95,"endTime":668.61,"body":"things. But I played a big card."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":664.95,"endTime":668.61,"body":"Dave has everybody else who was"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":668.61,"endTime":671.97,"body":"on the shortlist came in full on"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":668.61,"endTime":671.97,"body":"respectability, blue suits,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":672.0,"endTime":675.99,"body":"white shirts, that Paul's for"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":672.0,"endTime":675.99,"body":"the women red ties for the men."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":676.68,"endTime":680.25,"body":"And I was like, Okay, I need to"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":676.68,"endTime":680.25,"body":"differentiate myself from what's"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":680.25,"endTime":683.61,"body":"going on here. So I had long"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":680.25,"endTime":683.61,"body":"blonde hair, I had multiple"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":683.64,"endTime":689.49,"body":"earrings, I had a pink and"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":683.64,"endTime":689.49,"body":"purple tie dyed tie, as pretty"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":689.49,"endTime":692.28,"body":"sure that I was like, I'm either"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":689.49,"endTime":692.28,"body":"going to come a distant last, or"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":692.28,"endTime":694.53,"body":"I'm going to come first because"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":692.28,"endTime":694.53,"body":"they're going to bet on the odd"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":694.53,"endTime":695.61,"body":"person. So that was"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":695.61,"endTime":697.83,"body":"strategic, the"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":695.61,"endTime":697.83,"body":"strategic"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":698.7,"endTime":701.4,"body":"like, I"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":698.7,"endTime":701.4,"body":"have to play a zig when others"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":701.43,"endTime":706.32,"body":"zagging cod, and it's high risk."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":701.43,"endTime":706.32,"body":"But if I'm competing on a level"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":706.32,"endTime":708.87,"body":"playing field, I'm probably not"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":706.32,"endTime":708.87,"body":"in with the chumps."},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":709.47,"endTime":712.62,"body":"I love that. And"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":709.47,"endTime":712.62,"body":"that's something that you to a"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":712.62,"endTime":715.92,"body":"degree continued in your career"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":712.62,"endTime":715.92,"body":"now shall take. I mean, when I"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":715.92,"endTime":719.31,"body":"can't, when I'm like, Oh, I'm"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":715.92,"endTime":719.31,"body":"interviewing MBAs. I thought I"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":719.31,"endTime":723.3,"body":"better not were much more than a"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":719.31,"endTime":723.3,"body":"t shirt, because I can't be"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":723.3,"endTime":727.17,"body":"dressed up and my sartorial"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":723.3,"endTime":727.17,"body":"splendor is that you're wearing"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":727.17,"endTime":731.1,"body":"your normal three week tweets."},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":727.17,"endTime":731.1,"body":"Yeah, right. Like, you're"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":731.1,"endTime":733.98,"body":"usually wear some sort of"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":731.1,"endTime":733.98,"body":"version of a Hawaiian shirt is."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":735.42,"endTime":737.58,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":735.42,"endTime":737.58,"body":"just got flowers and skulls on"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":737.64,"endTime":739.17,"body":"the shirt. If you look close,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":737.64,"endTime":739.17,"body":"yeah."},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":739.77,"endTime":741.3,"body":"But even now,"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":739.77,"endTime":741.3,"body":"that's a that's a"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":741.3,"endTime":745.68,"body":"differentiator, right? In an"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":741.3,"endTime":745.68,"body":"industry where you're appealing"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":745.68,"endTime":749.04,"body":"to large companies, and you're"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":745.68,"endTime":749.04,"body":"being professional, you do stand"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":749.04,"endTime":752.25,"body":"out because of that choice. And"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":749.04,"endTime":752.25,"body":"I'm assuming it still is a"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":752.25,"endTime":753.0,"body":"choice. That"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":753.03,"endTime":755.01,"body":"is,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":753.03,"endTime":755.01,"body":"yeah, I mean, the company I"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":755.01,"endTime":758.01,"body":"founded 20 years ago, it's"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":755.01,"endTime":758.01,"body":"called Box of Crayons. So it's"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":758.01,"endTime":761.91,"body":"not a typical corporate sounding"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":758.01,"endTime":761.91,"body":"learning and development"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":761.91,"endTime":766.11,"body":"company. But I am part of this"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":761.91,"endTime":766.11,"body":"testing build, I always like"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":766.14,"endTime":769.98,"body":"standing out a little bit. And"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":766.14,"endTime":769.98,"body":"then reading Seth Godin book"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":769.98,"endTime":773.37,"body":"Purple Cow many years ago. And"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":769.98,"endTime":773.37,"body":"he's like, You know what, it is"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":773.37,"endTime":777.66,"body":"a great book, and in kind of a"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":773.37,"endTime":777.66,"body":"full permission to double down"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":777.66,"endTime":782.88,"body":"on the be different. Because"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":777.66,"endTime":782.88,"body":"when you're in life, and when"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":782.88,"endTime":785.58,"body":"you're in what business, the"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":782.88,"endTime":785.58,"body":"worst thing you get is"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":785.58,"endTime":790.17,"body":"indifference. And if you get a"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":785.58,"endTime":790.17,"body":"strong No, that's almost as good"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":790.17,"endTime":791.97,"body":"as getting a strong, yes."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":790.17,"endTime":791.97,"body":"Because you know, where you"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":791.97,"endTime":798.51,"body":"stand? What's boring is a kind"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":791.97,"endTime":798.51,"body":"of math response. So I have an"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":798.54,"endTime":802.14,"body":"inclination to kind of go, how"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":798.54,"endTime":802.14,"body":"do I be a bit provocative? How"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":802.14,"endTime":804.09,"body":"do I be a bit different? How do"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":802.14,"endTime":804.09,"body":"I stand down?"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":804.78,"endTime":806.79,"body":"And I would say,"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":804.78,"endTime":806.79,"body":"that also worked, because"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":806.79,"endTime":810.21,"body":"everything else was there."},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":806.79,"endTime":810.21,"body":"Right? It wasn't that you were"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":810.21,"endTime":814.83,"body":"just showing up in earrings and"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":810.21,"endTime":814.83,"body":"long blonde hair, it was also"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":815.01,"endTime":818.64,"body":"that you have the academics you"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":815.01,"endTime":818.64,"body":"had put in the work for the"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":818.64,"endTime":822.48,"body":"other things. It was just that"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":818.64,"endTime":822.48,"body":"one little spark that one little"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":822.48,"endTime":825.12,"body":"twist. Yeah, that made you stand"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":822.48,"endTime":825.12,"body":"out."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":825.15,"endTime":826.74,"body":"That's"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":825.15,"endTime":826.74,"body":"true. Like I did pretty well in"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":826.74,"endTime":830.76,"body":"university. I mean, not totally,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":826.74,"endTime":830.76,"body":"I literally finished my law"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":830.76,"endTime":833.88,"body":"degree in university being sued"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":830.76,"endTime":833.88,"body":"by one of my law professors for"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":833.88,"endTime":837.0,"body":"defamation, so that didn't go"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":833.88,"endTime":837.0,"body":"particularly well. Oh, wow. But"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":837.0,"endTime":840.15,"body":"I did well, in my my Literature"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":837.0,"endTime":840.15,"body":"degree, and I had captain the"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":840.15,"endTime":843.96,"body":"soccer team and I had done"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":840.15,"endTime":843.96,"body":"committees and volunteering."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":843.96,"endTime":847.44,"body":"I've done a bunch of stuff that"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":843.96,"endTime":847.44,"body":"got me over the line. But you"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":847.44,"endTime":849.51,"body":"know, it doesn't matter how good"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":847.44,"endTime":849.51,"body":"you are. There's just a lot of"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":849.51,"endTime":852.0,"body":"other people who are really good"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":849.51,"endTime":852.0,"body":"as well. So you have to figure"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":852.0,"endTime":854.79,"body":"out how do I how am I not only"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":852.0,"endTime":854.79,"body":"am I good, but how am I"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":854.79,"endTime":855.36,"body":"different?"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":856.109,"endTime":860.039,"body":"I love it. So"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":856.109,"endTime":860.039,"body":"what did you study in Australia?"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":860.039,"endTime":862.889,"body":"And what did you study at"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":860.039,"endTime":862.889,"body":"Oxford? What were your degrees"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":862.889,"endTime":863.159,"body":"in?"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":863.219,"endTime":866.009,"body":"So in"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":863.219,"endTime":866.009,"body":"Australia, a law degree is an"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":866.009,"endTime":870.179,"body":"undergraduate degree. So okay,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":866.009,"endTime":870.179,"body":"they in Australia is quite"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":870.179,"endTime":872.819,"body":"common to do what they call a"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":870.179,"endTime":872.819,"body":"combined degree. In other words,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":872.849,"endTime":875.969,"body":"two degrees faster than if"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":872.849,"endTime":875.969,"body":"you're doing them one after the"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":875.969,"endTime":878.789,"body":"other. You do them in a combined"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":875.969,"endTime":878.789,"body":"way. So I did an arts law"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":878.789,"endTime":884.309,"body":"degree. So I studied and majored"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":878.789,"endTime":884.309,"body":"in literature as an a BA, and my"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":884.309,"endTime":888.059,"body":"law degree. And then when I went"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":884.309,"endTime":888.059,"body":"to Oxford, I did a master's"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":888.059,"endTime":888.989,"body":"degree in literature."},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":952.0300000000001,"endTime":955.6,"body":"Okay, so it"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":952.0300000000001,"endTime":955.6,"body":"really was focused on writing"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":955.6,"endTime":960.13,"body":"literature. Was it intended to"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":955.6,"endTime":960.13,"body":"be what you ended up now?"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":960.1600000000001,"endTime":962.65,"body":"I mean,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":960.1600000000001,"endTime":962.65,"body":"I come to the end of my In my"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":962.86,"endTime":967.0300000000001,"body":"eight years at university, which"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":962.86,"endTime":967.0300000000001,"body":"was mostly fun, and so I'm now"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":967.0300000000001,"endTime":971.2900000000001,"body":"24. And I still have not the"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":967.0300000000001,"endTime":971.2900000000001,"body":"slightest idea of what I want to"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":971.2900000000001,"endTime":973.5400000000001,"body":"do with my life, I now have to"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":971.2900000000001,"endTime":973.5400000000001,"body":"actually get a job. And I'm"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":973.5400000000001,"endTime":977.71,"body":"like, I'm not sure it Oxford, I"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":973.5400000000001,"endTime":977.71,"body":"was being headhunted by"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":977.71,"endTime":980.47,"body":"McKinsey, a big consulting"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":977.71,"endTime":980.47,"body":"company, because they always had"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":980.47,"endTime":984.19,"body":"hunt or the Rhodes Scholars. So"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":980.47,"endTime":984.19,"body":"went for that. And I was, I"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":984.19,"endTime":987.1600000000001,"body":"think I'd be terrible at that."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":984.19,"endTime":987.1600000000001,"body":"And it looks a bit, soul"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":987.1600000000001,"endTime":991.51,"body":"sucking. And I applied to join"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":987.1600000000001,"endTime":991.51,"body":"an advertising agency, because"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":991.51,"endTime":994.6,"body":"I'm like, maybe they wild and"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":991.51,"endTime":994.6,"body":"crazy, I tried to get a job"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":994.6,"endTime":997.96,"body":"there, I didn't get a job. They"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":994.6,"endTime":997.96,"body":"didn't pass the test. And I"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":997.96,"endTime":1001.26,"body":"actually lurched into a brand"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":997.96,"endTime":1001.26,"body":"new startup company that"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1001.26,"endTime":1004.65,"body":"specialized in innovation. I"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1001.26,"endTime":1004.65,"body":"didn't even know what innovation"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1004.65,"endTime":1007.4100000000001,"body":"was. And they weren't that good"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1004.65,"endTime":1007.4100000000001,"body":"at explaining it either. But I"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1007.4100000000001,"endTime":1010.47,"body":"was like, I liked the vibe of"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1007.4100000000001,"endTime":1010.47,"body":"these guys. They're interesting,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1010.47,"endTime":1011.34,"body":"and they're different."},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1011.64,"endTime":1013.71,"body":"What does that"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1011.64,"endTime":1013.71,"body":"mean? The vibe, what parts of"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1013.71,"endTime":1015.57,"body":"that appealed to you? Well,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1015.6,"endTime":1016.62,"body":"I can"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1015.6,"endTime":1016.62,"body":"explain it better. In"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1016.62,"endTime":1021.27,"body":"retrospect, the two guys who"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1016.62,"endTime":1021.27,"body":"founded this company, were both"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1021.3000000000001,"endTime":1025.95,"body":"at Unilever people. Now Unilever"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1021.3000000000001,"endTime":1025.95,"body":"is one of the big companies in"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1025.95,"endTime":1028.29,"body":"the world, like Procter and"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1025.95,"endTime":1028.29,"body":"Gamble, that produce a lot of"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1028.32,"endTime":1030.54,"body":"the consumer goods that we're"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1028.32,"endTime":1030.54,"body":"familiar with everything from"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1030.54,"endTime":1034.11,"body":"food to detergent, and so on."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1030.54,"endTime":1034.11,"body":"And when they founded this"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1034.11,"endTime":1037.95,"body":"company, they're one of their"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1034.11,"endTime":1037.95,"body":"key Motors was whatever business"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1037.95,"endTime":1042.78,"body":"as usual is, let's not do that."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1037.95,"endTime":1042.78,"body":"And I was wired to kind of go,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1042.78,"endTime":1045.03,"body":"whatever, I don't even know what"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1042.78,"endTime":1045.03,"body":"business as usual is, but I'm"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1045.03,"endTime":1048.03,"body":"pretty sure I don't want it. So"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1045.03,"endTime":1048.03,"body":"it sounds like the story that"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1048.03,"endTime":1051.03,"body":"you just told us. Right?"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1048.03,"endTime":1051.03,"body":"Exactly, exactly. So against the"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1051.03,"endTime":1053.67,"body":"grain going against the grain."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1051.03,"endTime":1053.67,"body":"So when I walked in, and I've"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1053.67,"endTime":1056.85,"body":"got handmade clothes, and still"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1053.67,"endTime":1056.85,"body":"blond hair, and earrings, and I"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1056.85,"endTime":1059.67,"body":"like that, like you're weird,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1056.85,"endTime":1059.67,"body":"and you're smart. So let's hire"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1059.67,"endTime":1064.35,"body":"you. And we'll see how it goes."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1059.67,"endTime":1064.35,"body":"So I spent six years running"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1064.35,"endTime":1068.6399999999999,"body":"focus groups with consumers to"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1064.35,"endTime":1068.6399999999999,"body":"find out and figure out what"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1068.6399999999999,"endTime":1072.75,"body":"they next wanted in a particular"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1068.6399999999999,"endTime":1072.75,"body":"category. So literally, this is"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1072.75,"endTime":1077.25,"body":"a small glimpse, I travel up to"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1072.75,"endTime":1077.25,"body":"Scotland, who Scotland people"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1077.25,"endTime":1080.07,"body":"from Scotland eat more soup than"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1077.25,"endTime":1080.07,"body":"anybody else does in the United"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1080.07,"endTime":1085.9499999999998,"body":"Kingdom. I sit in a circle with"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1080.07,"endTime":1085.9499999999998,"body":"10 Scottish women. And I try and"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1085.9499999999998,"endTime":1088.77,"body":"understand what their"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1085.9499999999998,"endTime":1088.77,"body":"relationship is with soup. And I"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1088.77,"endTime":1091.9499999999998,"body":"show them a whole bunch of new"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1088.77,"endTime":1091.9499999999998,"body":"ideas that soups we could invent"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1091.9499999999998,"endTime":1096.84,"body":"for Kraft Heinz. And then I come"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1091.9499999999998,"endTime":1096.84,"body":"back to London and I write up a"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1096.84,"endTime":1100.08,"body":"presentation I say to Heinz,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1096.84,"endTime":1100.08,"body":"these are the new soups that you"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1100.08,"endTime":1103.5,"body":"should launch next year. So a"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1100.08,"endTime":1103.5,"body":"great a great process. I love"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1103.5,"endTime":1107.85,"body":"doing it. But I do not want my"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1103.5,"endTime":1107.85,"body":"legacy to be a new range of"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1107.85,"endTime":1110.49,"body":"soup. That's not That's not"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1107.85,"endTime":1110.49,"body":"meaningful work for me."},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1110.52,"endTime":1111.6599999999999,"body":"So there are a"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1110.52,"endTime":1111.6599999999999,"body":"couple of things about that"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1111.6599999999999,"endTime":1113.8799999999999,"body":"story that I want to highlight"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1111.6599999999999,"endTime":1113.8799999999999,"body":"for someone listening to this"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1113.8799999999999,"endTime":1119.55,"body":"number one was finding a culture"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1113.8799999999999,"endTime":1119.55,"body":"fit. So you were going to a"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1119.55,"endTime":1122.76,"body":"place where you fit in and felt"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1119.55,"endTime":1122.76,"body":"comfortable. And I think a lot"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1122.76,"endTime":1127.05,"body":"of people go to accompany,"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1122.76,"endTime":1127.05,"body":"because of the pay, or the"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1127.05,"endTime":1130.56,"body":"prestige or whatever it is not"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1127.05,"endTime":1130.56,"body":"understanding that it's really"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1130.59,"endTime":1134.28,"body":"about who you are. Right, that"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1130.59,"endTime":1134.28,"body":"matters. And the other thing"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1134.28,"endTime":1138.54,"body":"about that is you're building"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1134.28,"endTime":1138.54,"body":"your career now on curiosity."},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1138.6299999999999,"endTime":1141.48,"body":"Yes. And you can tell me if I'm"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1138.6299999999999,"endTime":1141.48,"body":"wrong, but it feels like that"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1141.48,"endTime":1145.4399999999998,"body":"kind of focus group was the"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1141.48,"endTime":1145.4399999999998,"body":"beginning of that sort of thing,"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1145.47,"endTime":1149.01,"body":"even if it wasn't what you"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1145.47,"endTime":1149.01,"body":"wanted to do. Yeah, process of a"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1149.01,"endTime":1151.98,"body":"focus group is digging down and"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1149.01,"endTime":1151.98,"body":"asking question after question"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1151.98,"endTime":1155.1599999999999,"body":"and getting curious about why do"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1151.98,"endTime":1155.1599999999999,"body":"you like this soup, other than"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1155.3999999999999,"endTime":1156.2099999999998,"body":"the other soup?"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1156.54,"endTime":1158.58,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1156.54,"endTime":1158.58,"body":"that's right. So it wasn't"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1158.58,"endTime":1161.37,"body":"exactly the start for me,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1158.58,"endTime":1161.37,"body":"because the stuff for me would"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1161.37,"endTime":1165.33,"body":"have been earlier on in"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1161.37,"endTime":1165.33,"body":"university where I trained to be"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1165.33,"endTime":1168.84,"body":"a crisis counselor on phones."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1165.33,"endTime":1168.84,"body":"Interesting. So"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1168.87,"endTime":1171.03,"body":"what led you to"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1168.87,"endTime":1171.03,"body":"do that? Why, why that that's"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1171.03,"endTime":1172.8,"body":"really specific"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1172.83,"endTime":1175.47,"body":"it is, I"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1172.83,"endTime":1175.47,"body":"had just found myself as a"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1175.47,"endTime":1178.9199999999998,"body":"teenager, and then in my early"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1175.47,"endTime":1178.9199999999998,"body":"20s, spending a bunch of time"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1178.9499999999998,"endTime":1184.3799999999999,"body":"talking to my friends and"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1178.9499999999998,"endTime":1184.3799999999999,"body":"hearing the woes of their lives."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1184.8,"endTime":1187.74,"body":"And I noticed that I did a lot"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1184.8,"endTime":1187.74,"body":"more listening than I did a lot"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1187.74,"endTime":1191.97,"body":"more talking. Now. Nobody wanted"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1187.74,"endTime":1191.97,"body":"to date me. So I didn't have"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1191.97,"endTime":1194.3999999999999,"body":"girlfriend issues, because I"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1191.97,"endTime":1194.3999999999999,"body":"couldn't get a girlfriend. So I"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1194.3999999999999,"endTime":1197.82,"body":"was fine. Other people were Hey,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1194.3999999999999,"endTime":1197.82,"body":"girlfriend issues. I thought you"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1197.82,"endTime":1197.9099999999999,"body":"were"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1197.9099999999999,"endTime":1198.99,"body":"the sexiest man"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1197.9099999999999,"endTime":1198.99,"body":"alive."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1199.02,"endTime":1201.36,"body":"I know."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1199.02,"endTime":1201.36,"body":"I've come a long way, baby."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1202.08,"endTime":1208.1999999999998,"body":"Okay, all right. All right. And"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1202.08,"endTime":1208.1999999999998,"body":"I remember just 18 or 19 things."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1208.1999999999998,"endTime":1210.8999999999999,"body":"So I'm not sure if I'm what I'm"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1208.1999999999998,"endTime":1210.8999999999999,"body":"doing here, I'm not sure if what"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1210.8999999999999,"endTime":1215.1299999999999,"body":"I'm doing is useful or helpful,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1210.8999999999999,"endTime":1215.1299999999999,"body":"or just keeps us stuck in the"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1215.1299999999999,"endTime":1218.79,"body":"same situation, or if I'm"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1215.1299999999999,"endTime":1218.79,"body":"actually making it worse. So I"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1218.79,"endTime":1222.1799999999998,"body":"went and signed up for something"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1218.79,"endTime":1222.1799999999998,"body":"called Youth Line, which is the"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1222.2099999999998,"endTime":1226.5,"body":"youth crisis counseling process"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1222.2099999999998,"endTime":1226.5,"body":"in Australia. And it's where I"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1226.5,"endTime":1231.81,"body":"first learned, really, what it"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1226.5,"endTime":1231.81,"body":"meant to ask a good question,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1231.84,"endTime":1234.9299999999998,"body":"what it meant to listen and what"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1231.84,"endTime":1234.9299999999998,"body":"it meant to not assume that"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1234.9299999999998,"endTime":1238.02,"body":"their first answer was their"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1234.9299999999998,"endTime":1238.02,"body":"only answer or the real answer."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1238.53,"endTime":1243.3,"body":"And to understand that often the"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1238.53,"endTime":1243.3,"body":"space to be heard is more"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1243.3,"endTime":1246.51,"body":"important than the actual"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1243.3,"endTime":1246.51,"body":"content of the answer. And that"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1246.54,"endTime":1250.1999999999998,"body":"my advice is probably not that"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1246.54,"endTime":1250.1999999999998,"body":"helpful. Because who am I to try"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1250.1999999999998,"endTime":1253.26,"body":"and get a good guess at that?"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1250.1999999999998,"endTime":1253.26,"body":"And those are all things that"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1253.26,"endTime":1257.1599999999999,"body":"have followed me really all my"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1253.26,"endTime":1257.1599999999999,"body":"life in terms of what I think is"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1257.1599999999999,"endTime":1259.05,"body":"important to teach and bring"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1257.1599999999999,"endTime":1259.05,"body":"into the world."},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1259.86,"endTime":1261.6899999999998,"body":"Interesting."},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1259.86,"endTime":1261.6899999999998,"body":"That's a beautiful way to learn"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1261.6899999999998,"endTime":1265.3799999999999,"body":"that too, because you learned it"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1261.6899999999998,"endTime":1265.3799999999999,"body":"through serving others. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1265.4099999999999,"endTime":1267.9599999999998,"body":"So it's"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1265.4099999999999,"endTime":1267.9599999999998,"body":"true that it gets translated"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1267.9599999999998,"endTime":1271.32,"body":"into running focus groups around"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1267.9599999999998,"endTime":1271.32,"body":"whiskeys and soups and credit"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1271.32,"endTime":1275.37,"body":"cards and the like. But I felt"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1271.32,"endTime":1275.37,"body":"like I was doing good thing and"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1275.37,"endTime":1278.73,"body":"going, I can be some form of"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1275.37,"endTime":1278.73,"body":"sanctuary for people who are"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1278.73,"endTime":1279.8999999999999,"body":"having a tough time of it."},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1280.26,"endTime":1282.48,"body":"I love it. So"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1280.26,"endTime":1282.48,"body":"let's go back to you're working"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1282.48,"endTime":1286.98,"body":"in that company, and you're in"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1282.48,"endTime":1286.98,"body":"your mid 20s. Yep, right around"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1286.98,"endTime":1291.27,"body":"here. I know that your wife is"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1286.98,"endTime":1291.27,"body":"such a big part of your life."},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1291.27,"endTime":1293.49,"body":"And you talk about your"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1291.27,"endTime":1293.49,"body":"relationship with her. So were"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1293.49,"endTime":1294.99,"body":"in here, did you meet her?"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1295.1699999999998,"endTime":1297.99,"body":"It says,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1295.1699999999998,"endTime":1297.99,"body":"interviewing this on the 22nd of"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1297.99,"endTime":1302.52,"body":"November. Our first date was on"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1297.99,"endTime":1302.52,"body":"the 20th of November 30 years"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1302.52,"endTime":1306.06,"body":"ago. So we've just celebrated 30"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1302.52,"endTime":1306.06,"body":"years since our first date. And"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1306.33,"endTime":1309.2099999999998,"body":"we both arrived. I think it"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1306.33,"endTime":1309.2099999999998,"body":"Yeah, like we're pretty"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1310.5,"endTime":1314.6999999999998,"body":"surprised and bemused that we're"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1310.5,"endTime":1314.6999999999998,"body":"we've managed to be alive long"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1314.6999999999998,"endTime":1317.6999999999998,"body":"enough to have a 30 year"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1314.6999999999998,"endTime":1317.6999999999998,"body":"relationship. We both arrived in"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1317.6999999999998,"endTime":1321.24,"body":"Oxford. Pretty sure that we"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1317.6999999999998,"endTime":1321.24,"body":"weren't that interested in"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1321.27,"endTime":1324.2099999999998,"body":"relationships. I was leaving a"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1321.27,"endTime":1324.2099999999998,"body":"broken relationship. She was"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1324.2099999999998,"endTime":1326.3999999999999,"body":"leaving a broken relationship."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1324.2099999999998,"endTime":1326.3999999999999,"body":"We kind of both arrived there"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1326.3999999999999,"endTime":1327.09,"body":"kind of going."},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1327.33,"endTime":1330.27,"body":"Alright. Just"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1327.33,"endTime":1330.27,"body":"might not work out. Well. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1330.27,"endTime":1330.99,"body":"exactly. This"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1330.99,"endTime":1333.72,"body":"is we're"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1330.99,"endTime":1333.72,"body":"a bit bruised and battered from"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1333.72,"endTime":1339.1499999999999,"body":"that experience. Yeah. But I met"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1333.72,"endTime":1339.1499999999999,"body":"my salah very early on, because"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1339.1799999999998,"endTime":1342.33,"body":"she was living in a house with"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1339.1799999999998,"endTime":1342.33,"body":"three other Rhodes Scholars. And"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1342.33,"endTime":1344.58,"body":"I was like, and they're all"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1342.33,"endTime":1344.58,"body":"women, I was hanging out of that"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1344.58,"endTime":1349.05,"body":"house. And we started dating"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1344.58,"endTime":1349.05,"body":"almost immediately. I mean, we"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1349.05,"endTime":1354.1799999999998,"body":"arrived in Oxford in October, we"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1349.05,"endTime":1354.1799999999998,"body":"were a couple by the end of"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1354.1799999999998,"endTime":1358.47,"body":"November. So wow, we, to our"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1354.1799999999998,"endTime":1358.47,"body":"surprise, you know, we've we"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1358.47,"endTime":1361.77,"body":"just fell in love. And very"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1358.47,"endTime":1361.77,"body":"quickly went this is this is"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1361.77,"endTime":1362.3999999999999,"body":"kind of it."},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1362.8799999999999,"endTime":1365.61,"body":"So I'm asking"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1362.8799999999999,"endTime":1365.61,"body":"that question. Because I have"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1365.61,"endTime":1371.73,"body":"found in my life that certainly"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1365.61,"endTime":1371.73,"body":"the most important decision that"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1371.73,"endTime":1375.4499999999998,"body":"I made not just for my life, but"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1371.73,"endTime":1375.4499999999998,"body":"also with my career and"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1375.4499999999998,"endTime":1379.05,"body":"everything that's happened, came"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1375.4499999999998,"endTime":1379.05,"body":"down to the woman that I met and"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1379.05,"endTime":1382.02,"body":"ultimately married. And we've"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1379.05,"endTime":1382.02,"body":"now been our 21st wedding"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1382.02,"endTime":1384.6599999999999,"body":"anniversary was this year. And"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1382.02,"endTime":1384.6599999999999,"body":"we were together a couple years"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1384.6599999999999,"endTime":1389.1299999999999,"body":"before that. Yeah. So what"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1384.6599999999999,"endTime":1389.1299999999999,"body":"impact has that relationship had"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1389.3999999999999,"endTime":1391.56,"body":"in not just your life, but your"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1389.3999999999999,"endTime":1391.56,"body":"career?"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1392.1599999999999,"endTime":1394.26,"body":"Well,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1392.1599999999999,"endTime":1394.26,"body":"there's a bunch of tactical"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1394.26,"endTime":1398.1,"body":"things I could mention in terms"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1394.26,"endTime":1398.1,"body":"of how it's helped my career. I"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1398.1,"endTime":1400.6499999999999,"body":"mean, my seller was my first"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1398.1,"endTime":1400.6499999999999,"body":"reader of all the books that I"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1400.6499999999999,"endTime":1404.9399999999998,"body":"write. And she's the most"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1400.6499999999999,"endTime":1404.9399999999998,"body":"fearless, give her feedback. But"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1404.9399999999998,"endTime":1410.1,"body":"and by fearless, I mean brutal."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1404.9399999999998,"endTime":1410.1,"body":"Like, she likes to pick up a red"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1410.1,"endTime":1413.1299999999999,"body":"pen and plunge it repeatedly"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1410.1,"endTime":1413.1299999999999,"body":"through my heart when I show her"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1413.97,"endTime":1417.6599999999999,"body":"tender offering. And she worked,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1413.97,"endTime":1417.6599999999999,"body":"we worked together for a while"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1417.6599999999999,"endTime":1421.4399999999998,"body":"in boxes of crayons, so as like,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1417.6599999999999,"endTime":1421.4399999999998,"body":"six, six or seven years where we"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1421.4399999999998,"endTime":1425.25,"body":"worked, and so she helped grow"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1421.4399999999998,"endTime":1425.25,"body":"the company and help me be the"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1425.28,"endTime":1429.24,"body":"leader of that company. But I"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1425.28,"endTime":1429.24,"body":"would say all of those are"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1429.24,"endTime":1435.1799999999998,"body":"secondary from the sense of"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1429.24,"endTime":1435.1799999999998,"body":"great contentment I have in"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1435.1799999999998,"endTime":1439.98,"body":"being married and that I'm"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1435.1799999999998,"endTime":1439.98,"body":"happy. And that I feel she is"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1439.98,"endTime":1446.6399999999999,"body":"100% at my beck and and that is"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1439.98,"endTime":1446.6399999999999,"body":"a very deep foundation from"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1446.6399999999999,"endTime":1451.1699999999998,"body":"which I can have adventures, and"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1446.6399999999999,"endTime":1451.1699999999998,"body":"I can try stuff out. And we have"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1451.1699999999998,"endTime":1454.35,"body":"a different risk of appetite."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1451.1699999999998,"endTime":1454.35,"body":"I'm slightly more risk inclined."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1454.35,"endTime":1458.61,"body":"And she is she's very supportive"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1454.35,"endTime":1458.61,"body":"of what I do and how I do it. So"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1459.09,"endTime":1463.47,"body":"the bottom line is I have a deep"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1459.09,"endTime":1463.47,"body":"contentment and happiness from"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1463.47,"endTime":1466.7099999999998,"body":"being married. And that infuses"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1463.47,"endTime":1466.7099999999998,"body":"everything."},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1467.1899999999998,"endTime":1468.84,"body":"That's beautiful."},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1467.1899999999998,"endTime":1468.84,"body":"And I'm assuming you're"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1468.84,"endTime":1471.33,"body":"providing the same for her as"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1468.84,"endTime":1471.33,"body":"well."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1471.6899999999998,"endTime":1474.51,"body":"When"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1471.6899999999998,"endTime":1474.51,"body":"somebody said, you know, it's a"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1474.51,"endTime":1477.9599999999998,"body":"good marriage. When when if you"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1474.51,"endTime":1477.9599999999998,"body":"ask each of the people in the"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1477.9599999999998,"endTime":1482.4599999999998,"body":"marriage who's getting the most"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1477.9599999999998,"endTime":1482.4599999999998,"body":"out of it, they go I am. So in"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1482.4599999999998,"endTime":1484.7099999999998,"body":"my marriage, I go I think I'm"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1482.4599999999998,"endTime":1484.7099999999998,"body":"getting the most out of this."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1484.7099999999998,"endTime":1487.8,"body":"And I don't I'm not sure exactly"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1484.7099999999998,"endTime":1487.8,"body":"what my sellers answers I"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1487.8,"endTime":1490.1399999999999,"body":"wouldn't want to presume but I"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1487.8,"endTime":1490.1399999999999,"body":"think she might say she's"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1490.1399999999999,"endTime":1492.81,"body":"getting the most out of it. So"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1490.1399999999999,"endTime":1492.81,"body":"we both feel like we're getting"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1492.81,"endTime":1495.9299999999998,"body":"a really good, a good deal."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1492.81,"endTime":1495.9299999999998,"body":"That's the"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1496.26,"endTime":1498.51,"body":"beautiful"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1496.26,"endTime":1498.51,"body":"contract. Another way that I've"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1498.51,"endTime":1501.48,"body":"heard that phrase is that you"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1498.51,"endTime":1501.48,"body":"know, the secret to success is"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1501.48,"endTime":1504.24,"body":"making sure that the other"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1501.48,"endTime":1504.24,"body":"person is your top priority."},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1504.27,"endTime":1506.73,"body":"Yeah. And when you've got two"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1504.27,"endTime":1506.73,"body":"people working together that"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1506.73,"endTime":1511.59,"body":"way, then you always feel"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1506.73,"endTime":1511.59,"body":"supported. Yeah, directions."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1511.7099999999998,"endTime":1514.62,"body":"As much"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1511.7099999999998,"endTime":1514.62,"body":"as I mean, with all of this"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1514.62,"endTime":1517.86,"body":"stuff. It's just also worth"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1514.62,"endTime":1517.86,"body":"acknowledging the luck involved."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1518.3999999999999,"endTime":1522.12,"body":"Because we've lived in England"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1518.3999999999999,"endTime":1522.12,"body":"and then Boston and then"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1522.12,"endTime":1524.73,"body":"Toronto, we've had different"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1522.12,"endTime":1524.73,"body":"careers. I've had different"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1524.73,"endTime":1527.85,"body":"iterations of the work that I"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1524.73,"endTime":1527.85,"body":"do. And if you get together as a"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1527.85,"endTime":1532.1999999999998,"body":"couple and you start off, you"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1527.85,"endTime":1532.1999999999998,"body":"know, one degree misaligned"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1532.23,"endTime":1535.8,"body":"around something important."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1532.23,"endTime":1535.8,"body":"After 30 years, there's a big"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1535.8,"endTime":1540.2099999999998,"body":"gap between you and we've had"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1535.8,"endTime":1540.2099999999998,"body":"the good luck to and it is luck"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1540.24,"endTime":1544.98,"body":"to have our relationships adapt"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1540.24,"endTime":1544.98,"body":"to each other so that we keep"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1544.98,"endTime":1548.3999999999999,"body":"coming back to each other in"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1544.98,"endTime":1548.3999999999999,"body":"terms of who we are and what we"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1548.3999999999999,"endTime":1549.4199999999998,"body":"think is important."},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1550.11,"endTime":1551.73,"body":"So when you say"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1550.11,"endTime":1551.73,"body":"it's luck, though, that implies"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1551.73,"endTime":1553.77,"body":"that there isn't work involved."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1553.8,"endTime":1555.33,"body":"No, it's"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1553.8,"endTime":1555.33,"body":"not meant to imply that there's"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1555.33,"endTime":1558.87,"body":"not work involved there is"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1555.33,"endTime":1558.87,"body":"working. Okay, but I think"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1558.87,"endTime":1564.99,"body":"people I know who relationships"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1558.87,"endTime":1564.99,"body":"that two really good people who"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1564.99,"endTime":1567.3,"body":"have loved each other and who"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1564.99,"endTime":1567.3,"body":"have worked hard at their"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1567.3,"endTime":1571.3799999999999,"body":"relationship and they have"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1567.3,"endTime":1571.3799999999999,"body":"drifted apart, because of just"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1571.3799999999999,"endTime":1575.9099999999999,"body":"the way the world plays out for"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1571.3799999999999,"endTime":1575.9099999999999,"body":"them. I'm saying this out loud,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1575.9099999999999,"endTime":1580.5,"body":"because there's a way that an"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1575.9099999999999,"endTime":1580.5,"body":"end of a relationship can feel"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1580.5,"endTime":1583.56,"body":"like a failure and a personal"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1580.5,"endTime":1583.56,"body":"failure, like I didn't do the"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1583.56,"endTime":1586.1399999999999,"body":"work or I wasn't the right"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1583.56,"endTime":1586.1399999999999,"body":"person, or they didn't do the"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1586.1399999999999,"endTime":1590.04,"body":"work. And sometimes you just get"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1586.1399999999999,"endTime":1590.04,"body":"unlucky in that you end up on"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1590.04,"endTime":1593.3999999999999,"body":"two different paths that pull"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1590.04,"endTime":1593.3999999999999,"body":"you apart. Like that. It's a"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1593.3999999999999,"endTime":1597.2099999999998,"body":"balance of both. Yeah. I mean,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1593.3999999999999,"endTime":1597.2099999999998,"body":"it's no doubt it is work. It's"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1597.2099999999998,"endTime":1601.62,"body":"not just like, it's worth. I do"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1597.2099999999998,"endTime":1601.62,"body":"think it's like, the coaching"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1601.62,"endTime":1604.77,"body":"haven't been a huge selling"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1601.62,"endTime":1604.77,"body":"book, a lot of work, a lot of"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1604.77,"endTime":1608.73,"body":"effort, a lot of strategizing a"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1604.77,"endTime":1608.73,"body":"whole bunch of luck involved in"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1608.73,"endTime":1610.23,"body":"selling over a million copies."},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1610.799,"endTime":1612.599,"body":"You know, I think"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1610.799,"endTime":1612.599,"body":"about my relationship. And I"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1612.599,"endTime":1616.049,"body":"think that part of the reason"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1612.599,"endTime":1616.049,"body":"why it's worked for us is that"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1616.049,"endTime":1619.109,"body":"we just genuinely like each"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1616.049,"endTime":1619.109,"body":"other. Everybody talks about"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1619.109,"endTime":1624.779,"body":"love, which is important. But it"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1619.109,"endTime":1624.779,"body":"for us, it began, we're just"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1624.779,"endTime":1627.779,"body":"friends. Yeah, I would rather"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1624.779,"endTime":1627.779,"body":"hang out with her than any other"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1627.779,"endTime":1631.079,"body":"person in the world clean."},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1627.779,"endTime":1631.079,"body":"Exactly. Yeah. And then that"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1631.079,"endTime":1634.019,"body":"makes everything else, even when"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1631.079,"endTime":1634.019,"body":"you have to do the work a lot"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1634.019,"endTime":1634.4389999999999,"body":"easier."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1635.37,"endTime":1637.62,"body":"I mean,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1635.37,"endTime":1637.62,"body":"it's miraculous. 30 years on my"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1637.62,"endTime":1640.47,"body":"cell was still laughs at the"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1637.62,"endTime":1640.47,"body":"same seven jokes that I have."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1641.97,"endTime":1643.86,"body":"That's probably Stockholm"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1641.97,"endTime":1643.86,"body":"Syndrome. So there's something"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1643.86,"endTime":1646.1999999999998,"body":"else but yeah."},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1647.9099999999999,"endTime":1650.4599999999998,"body":"Okay, so let's"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1647.9099999999999,"endTime":1650.4599999999998,"body":"now go back to the career. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1650.4599999999998,"endTime":1655.1699999999998,"body":"Talk to me about the transition"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1650.4599999999998,"endTime":1655.1699999999998,"body":"to what you do now, which is"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1655.1699999999998,"endTime":1659.01,"body":"you're an online guru, you're an"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1655.1699999999998,"endTime":1659.01,"body":"author that's well respected."},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1659.01,"endTime":1661.8,"body":"You build these companies. I"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1659.01,"endTime":1661.8,"body":"mean, you're reaching millions"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1661.8,"endTime":1664.6499999999999,"body":"of people around the world. So"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1661.8,"endTime":1664.6499999999999,"body":"how did you make that transition"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1664.6499999999999,"endTime":1666.6599999999999,"body":"to the beginning of that?"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1667.6799999999998,"endTime":1671.73,"body":"Well,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1667.6799999999998,"endTime":1671.73,"body":"I've got fired. Is there is the"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1672.0,"endTime":1675.78,"body":"CIO, insurable. Yeah. When you"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1672.0,"endTime":1675.78,"body":"saw what happened? Why? So I"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1675.78,"endTime":1679.02,"body":"worked at this innovation"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1675.78,"endTime":1679.02,"body":"company for six or seven years."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1679.5,"endTime":1682.4099999999999,"body":"And then when do you know what"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1679.5,"endTime":1682.4099999999999,"body":"we have not successfully, really"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1682.4099999999999,"endTime":1685.1999999999998,"body":"launched anything of any"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1682.4099999999999,"endTime":1685.1999999999998,"body":"significance? What is going on"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1685.1999999999998,"endTime":1689.07,"body":"with that? So I joined a"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1685.1999999999998,"endTime":1689.07,"body":"consulting firm, where I got to"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1689.07,"endTime":1691.9499999999998,"body":"learn about how organizations"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1689.07,"endTime":1691.9499999999998,"body":"work, because I was trying our"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1691.9499999999998,"endTime":1695.3999999999999,"body":"good ideas. We keep going into"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1691.9499999999998,"endTime":1695.3999999999999,"body":"organizations and dying. I'm"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1695.3999999999999,"endTime":1698.8799999999999,"body":"like, let me figure this out."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1695.3999999999999,"endTime":1698.8799999999999,"body":"And with that consulting firm,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1698.8799999999999,"endTime":1702.33,"body":"we went from London to Boston,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1698.8799999999999,"endTime":1702.33,"body":"they opened up a new office in"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1702.33,"endTime":1706.08,"body":"Boston, we had a miserable time"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1702.33,"endTime":1706.08,"body":"in Boston, because they didn't"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1706.08,"endTime":1708.2099999999998,"body":"know what they were doing. And I"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1706.08,"endTime":1708.2099999999998,"body":"didn't know what I was doing."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1708.57,"endTime":1712.77,"body":"And our main client abandoned us"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1708.57,"endTime":1712.77,"body":"about 10 days of pre arrived in"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1712.77,"endTime":1716.79,"body":"Boston. So we struggled for"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1712.77,"endTime":1716.79,"body":"three years. And eventually I"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1716.79,"endTime":1723.1799999999998,"body":"left to go up to Toronto. And"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1716.79,"endTime":1723.1799999999998,"body":"I'd found a consulting job up in"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1723.1799999999998,"endTime":1726.51,"body":"Toronto, I've never been there"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1723.1799999999998,"endTime":1726.51,"body":"before. But I got a job. And so"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1726.51,"endTime":1729.03,"body":"I was like, Okay, this is great."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1726.51,"endTime":1729.03,"body":"And we'll head off. And I'll"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1729.03,"endTime":1732.6299999999999,"body":"kind of carry on my consulting"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1729.03,"endTime":1732.6299999999999,"body":"career. We had tickets to fly"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1732.6299999999999,"endTime":1738.78,"body":"out of Boston on 911. So 21"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1732.6299999999999,"endTime":1738.78,"body":"years ago, there abouts. So that"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1738.84,"endTime":1743.22,"body":"had its own complications, of"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1738.84,"endTime":1743.22,"body":"course, around us leaving and"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1743.22,"endTime":1745.9499999999998,"body":"crossing the border. But it"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1743.22,"endTime":1745.9499999999998,"body":"meant that by the time I got to"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1745.9499999999998,"endTime":1749.61,"body":"Toronto, my consulting firm"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1745.9499999999998,"endTime":1749.61,"body":"went, sorry, we were no longer"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1749.61,"endTime":1752.6999999999998,"body":"hiring you because we didn't"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1749.61,"endTime":1752.6999999999998,"body":"know what is happening. They did"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1752.6999999999998,"endTime":1757.59,"body":"set me up for this kind of small"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1752.6999999999998,"endTime":1757.59,"body":"contract work in another"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1757.59,"endTime":1761.73,"body":"company, where honestly, for six"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1757.59,"endTime":1761.73,"body":"months, Dave, I tried to do some"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1761.73,"endTime":1765.2099999999998,"body":"change management stuff for"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1761.73,"endTime":1765.2099999999998,"body":"them, and just failed utterly,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1765.24,"endTime":1767.97,"body":"could not get traction could not"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1765.24,"endTime":1767.97,"body":"get anybody. So what made us I"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1767.97,"endTime":1773.22,"body":"had no status, I had no direct"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1767.97,"endTime":1773.22,"body":"power, I had no indirect power."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1773.49,"endTime":1777.6599999999999,"body":"So I was flapping around for six"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1773.49,"endTime":1777.6599999999999,"body":"months. They paid me a salary,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1777.6599999999999,"endTime":1782.79,"body":"which was great. And then after"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1777.6599999999999,"endTime":1782.79,"body":"six months, they went, you suck."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1782.79,"endTime":1789.3899999999999,"body":"And I'm like, That's harsh, but"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1782.79,"endTime":1789.3899999999999,"body":"it's accurate. And what was"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1789.3899999999999,"endTime":1793.62,"body":"brilliant was literally two days"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1789.3899999999999,"endTime":1793.62,"body":"beforehand, my, my maple leaf"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1793.62,"endTime":1796.32,"body":"card equivalent of a green card"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1793.62,"endTime":1796.32,"body":"had arrived. So I could now work"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1796.32,"endTime":1801.72,"body":"independently in Canada. So that"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1796.32,"endTime":1801.72,"body":"was really the birth of what"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1801.72,"endTime":1806.1899999999998,"body":"would become Box of Crayons. Now"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1801.72,"endTime":1806.1899999999998,"body":"my business model when I started"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1806.1899999999998,"endTime":1810.3,"body":"Box of Crayons was find somebody"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1806.1899999999998,"endTime":1810.3,"body":"with a pulse and a wallet and"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1810.3,"endTime":1813.9299999999998,"body":"see what I can do because I had"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1810.3,"endTime":1813.9299999999998,"body":"a range of different skills, but"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1813.9299999999998,"endTime":1817.02,"body":"I didn't have a business plan. I"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1813.9299999999998,"endTime":1817.02,"body":"didn't have purpose. I was just"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1817.02,"endTime":1824.1899999999998,"body":"looking to get work so I could"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1817.02,"endTime":1824.1899999999998,"body":"pay for life. But after four"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1824.1899999999998,"endTime":1828.51,"body":"years or so five years of that I"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1824.1899999999998,"endTime":1828.51,"body":"kind of was invited to do some"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1828.51,"endTime":1834.48,"body":"training around coaching skills."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1828.51,"endTime":1834.48,"body":"And that became the thing that"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1834.48,"endTime":1837.6,"body":"box of crayons is now known for,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1834.48,"endTime":1837.6,"body":"and what I'm known for, which is"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1837.6,"endTime":1843.27,"body":"like how do you make coaching"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1837.6,"endTime":1843.27,"body":"practical and unwed and useful"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1843.27,"endTime":1845.4599999999998,"body":"for busy managers and busy"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1843.27,"endTime":1845.4599999999998,"body":"leaders? I was"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1845.4599999999998,"endTime":1849.3,"body":"just going to ask"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1845.4599999999998,"endTime":1849.3,"body":"why Box of Crayons."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1849.33,"endTime":1853.6499999999999,"body":"So as"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1849.33,"endTime":1853.6499999999999,"body":"part of my try and get to know"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1853.6499999999999,"endTime":1858.75,"body":"people in Toronto, I had signed"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1853.6499999999999,"endTime":1858.75,"body":"up for my local international"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1858.75,"endTime":1862.05,"body":"coaching Federation chapter and"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1858.75,"endTime":1862.05,"body":"I volunteered to run a walk drop"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1862.05,"endTime":1865.3799999999999,"body":"on branding, because in the"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1862.05,"endTime":1865.3799999999999,"body":"world of innovation, I'd learned"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1865.4399999999998,"endTime":1868.11,"body":"enough about brands that I could"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1865.4399999999998,"endTime":1868.11,"body":"kind of do some teaching around"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1868.11,"endTime":1872.79,"body":"it. So I came up with Michael's"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1868.11,"endTime":1872.79,"body":"five unbreakable laws of"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1872.79,"endTime":1876.6,"body":"branding. And in part because"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1872.79,"endTime":1876.6,"body":"most coaches brands drove me"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1876.6,"endTime":1877.08,"body":"crazy."},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1877.11,"endTime":1879.12,"body":"sounds useful. I"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1877.11,"endTime":1879.12,"body":"want to hear those those five"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1879.12,"endTime":1879.57,"body":"laws."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1879.6,"endTime":1884.4299999999998,"body":"Well, I"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1879.6,"endTime":1884.4299999999998,"body":"wish I could remember them all."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1884.55,"endTime":1888.57,"body":"But here's here's the real crux"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1884.55,"endTime":1888.57,"body":"of the matter, Dave, as I as I"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1888.57,"endTime":1892.98,"body":"listed my five unbreakable laws,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1888.57,"endTime":1892.98,"body":"I looked at the name I'd given"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1892.98,"endTime":1896.6399999999999,"body":"my company and realized that it"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1892.98,"endTime":1896.6399999999999,"body":"failed almost all of the laws."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1896.82,"endTime":1897.3,"body":"So"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1897.33,"endTime":1898.47,"body":"what was that"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1897.33,"endTime":1898.47,"body":"first name?"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1898.8,"endTime":1900.24,"body":"The"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1898.8,"endTime":1900.24,"body":"first name was named after my"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1900.24,"endTime":1904.4099999999999,"body":"grandmother. Her name was Mater"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1900.24,"endTime":1904.4099999999999,"body":"and a Ida, named after Sir"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1904.4099999999999,"endTime":1908.4599999999998,"body":"Walter Scott's Wolfhound. In"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1904.4099999999999,"endTime":1908.4599999999998,"body":"Scotland, she was Scottish. So"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1908.4599999999998,"endTime":1911.82,"body":"it's like it's called Meter CC"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1908.4599999999998,"endTime":1911.82,"body":"meter coaching and consulting. I"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1911.82,"endTime":1915.9299999999998,"body":"was like, okay, it doesn't work."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1911.82,"endTime":1915.9299999999998,"body":"So I now had four weeks to come"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1915.9299999999998,"endTime":1918.99,"body":"up with a better name. So I"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1915.9299999999998,"endTime":1918.99,"body":"wouldn't look like an idiot"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1918.99,"endTime":1922.02,"body":"teaching these five unbreakable"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1918.99,"endTime":1922.02,"body":"laws, three of which I was"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1922.02,"endTime":1926.31,"body":"definitely breaking. So I"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1922.02,"endTime":1926.31,"body":"basically just, I kind of panic"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1926.31,"endTime":1930.6,"body":"brainstorm for three or four"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1926.31,"endTime":1930.6,"body":"weeks. And I'd have these ideas"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1930.6,"endTime":1933.51,"body":"I got maybe I call it espresso"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1930.6,"endTime":1933.51,"body":"coaching. Because I like"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1933.51,"endTime":1938.9099999999999,"body":"espresso. And I'm like, I'm"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1933.51,"endTime":1938.9099999999999,"body":"imagining dolce vita, like cool"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1938.9099999999999,"endTime":1944.6399999999999,"body":"guys riding scooters and"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1938.9099999999999,"endTime":1944.6399999999999,"body":"looking. Ciao, bella, email."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1944.8799999999999,"endTime":1948.8999999999999,"body":"Friends, I have an espresso"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1944.8799999999999,"endTime":1948.8999999999999,"body":"coaching. One friend emailed me"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1948.8999999999999,"endTime":1953.1299999999999,"body":"back, okay, espresso. It's"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1948.8999999999999,"endTime":1953.1299999999999,"body":"pretentious is expensive, it"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1953.1299999999999,"endTime":1956.22,"body":"doesn't last very long. It"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1953.1299999999999,"endTime":1956.22,"body":"stains your teeth. And I'm like,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1956.6999999999998,"endTime":1959.22,"body":"there's not there's not the"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1956.6999999999998,"endTime":1959.22,"body":"brand attributes that I was"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1959.22,"endTime":1963.1499999999999,"body":"striving for. So I'm sitting on"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1959.22,"endTime":1963.1499999999999,"body":"a train going somewhere. And I'm"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1963.1499999999999,"endTime":1966.72,"body":"thinking, Who do I like to"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1963.1499999999999,"endTime":1966.72,"body":"serve. And at the time, I was"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1966.72,"endTime":1970.32,"body":"coaching quite a lot. And I'm"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1966.72,"endTime":1970.32,"body":"really, I love to serve people"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1970.32,"endTime":1975.2099999999998,"body":"who are seeking a sense of fun"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1970.32,"endTime":1975.2099999999998,"body":"in their life. And in that"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1975.2099999999998,"endTime":1977.8799999999999,"body":"moment, Box of Crayons popped"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1975.2099999999998,"endTime":1977.8799999999999,"body":"into my head. And I'm like,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1977.9099999999999,"endTime":1981.54,"body":"That's a good name. And that was"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1977.9099999999999,"endTime":1981.54,"body":"the moment. So staying in the"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1981.54,"endTime":1985.74,"body":"ambiguity for a long time Box of"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1981.54,"endTime":1985.74,"body":"Crayons showed up. And I was"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1985.74,"endTime":1989.6999999999998,"body":"like, That is cool. And it's"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1985.74,"endTime":1989.6999999999998,"body":"different, and playful. And it"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1989.6999999999998,"endTime":1993.3,"body":"can have a range of different"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1989.6999999999998,"endTime":1993.3,"body":"meanings. So it became a really"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":1993.4199999999998,"endTime":1995.34,"body":"strong brand for me."},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1995.9399999999998,"endTime":1998.4299999999998,"body":"That's really"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1995.9399999999998,"endTime":1998.4299999999998,"body":"interesting. So I have a similar"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1998.4599999999998,"endTime":2003.1399999999999,"body":"my early now Box of Crayons has"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":1998.4599999999998,"endTime":2003.1399999999999,"body":"been very successful. But my"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2003.1399999999999,"endTime":2007.37,"body":"early title for my business was"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2003.1399999999999,"endTime":2007.37,"body":"fresh juice strategy. Nice."},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2007.49,"endTime":2010.6399999999999,"body":"Yeah. And there are flaws with"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2007.49,"endTime":2010.6399999999999,"body":"that. But at least in the"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2010.6399999999999,"endTime":2013.9399999999998,"body":"beginning of my career, because"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2010.6399999999999,"endTime":2013.9399999999998,"body":"it was unique, it always brought"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2013.9399999999998,"endTime":2017.4499999999998,"body":"up a conversation. It was why"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2013.9399999999998,"endTime":2017.4499999999998,"body":"fresh juice Oh, well, because I"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2017.4499999999998,"endTime":2020.51,"body":"can help every customer"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2017.4499999999998,"endTime":2020.51,"body":"experience that you have be as"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2020.51,"endTime":2023.3899999999999,"body":"fresh as the previous one. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2020.51,"endTime":2023.3899999999999,"body":"that's really good. And I would,"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2023.54,"endTime":2026.4499999999998,"body":"yeah, so I'd lead that into"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2023.54,"endTime":2026.4499999999998,"body":"entrepreneurial coaching, which"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2026.4499999999998,"endTime":2030.9199999999998,"body":"is my background. Yeah. So yeah,"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2026.4499999999998,"endTime":2030.9199999999998,"body":"I think there's value in here we"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2030.9199999999998,"endTime":2033.62,"body":"go back to that principle,"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2030.9199999999998,"endTime":2033.62,"body":"again, of differentiation,"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2033.83,"endTime":2037.49,"body":"right? I think that's something"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2033.83,"endTime":2037.49,"body":"that you understand. So clearly,"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2037.49,"endTime":2039.1699999999998,"body":"and you've lived so much in your"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2037.49,"endTime":2039.1699999999998,"body":"career."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2040.79,"endTime":2043.07,"body":"I'd only"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2040.79,"endTime":2043.07,"body":"say this, Dave, I'm just going"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2043.07,"endTime":2045.3799999999999,"body":"to reiterate what you said"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2043.07,"endTime":2045.3799999999999,"body":"around, you know, if I'd shown"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2045.3799999999999,"endTime":2047.6299999999999,"body":"up from a Rhodes scholarship"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2045.3799999999999,"endTime":2047.6299999999999,"body":"interview wearing a chicken"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2047.6299999999999,"endTime":2051.4700000000003,"body":"outfit, and not a whole lot to"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2047.6299999999999,"endTime":2051.4700000000003,"body":"back me up on that. There's no"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2051.4700000000003,"endTime":2054.05,"body":"point in being different if you"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2051.4700000000003,"endTime":2054.05,"body":"don't also have something solid"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2054.05,"endTime":2057.68,"body":"behind you. So true. The"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2054.05,"endTime":2057.68,"body":"companies I've started have been"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2057.68,"endTime":2060.29,"body":"successful, because they've got"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2057.68,"endTime":2060.29,"body":"clear business models that are"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2060.32,"endTime":2062.63,"body":"tested. And they're not"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2060.32,"endTime":2062.63,"body":"different from other business"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2062.63,"endTime":2066.05,"body":"models. But in terms of how I"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2062.63,"endTime":2066.05,"body":"then present myself to the"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2066.05,"endTime":2068.66,"body":"world, that's where you put the"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2066.05,"endTime":2068.66,"body":"twist on to differentiate"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2068.66,"endTime":2069.17,"body":"yourself."},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2070.13,"endTime":2072.77,"body":"Yeah. And you are"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2070.13,"endTime":2072.77,"body":"certainly someone who throughout"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2072.77,"endTime":2077.18,"body":"your life, you delivered on the"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2072.77,"endTime":2077.18,"body":"things that matter, right? And"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2077.18,"endTime":2079.46,"body":"that's why you've been"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2077.18,"endTime":2079.46,"body":"successful. And then you just"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2079.46,"endTime":2083.54,"body":"put in that extra little MBS"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2079.46,"endTime":2083.54,"body":"spark, that is you."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2083.66,"endTime":2085.76,"body":"Yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2083.66,"endTime":2085.76,"body":"know, I keep coming back to"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2085.76,"endTime":2090.02,"body":"this, I have had a bunch of"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2085.76,"endTime":2090.02,"body":"success. And I've got a bunch of"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2090.02,"endTime":2092.84,"body":"smart things that have helped"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2090.02,"endTime":2092.84,"body":"with that. And I just keep"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2092.84,"endTime":2095.21,"body":"getting, I always have had a"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2092.84,"endTime":2095.21,"body":"whole ship my share of lucky"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2095.21,"endTime":2100.07,"body":"breaks, you know, moments where"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2095.21,"endTime":2100.07,"body":"the cards have fallen. For me,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2100.19,"endTime":2102.62,"body":"the fact that I've gotten a lot"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2100.19,"endTime":2102.62,"body":"of cards just because I'm a"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2102.89,"endTime":2107.69,"body":"straight, tall, white, dude,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2102.89,"endTime":2107.69,"body":"over educated white dude, that I"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2107.69,"endTime":2110.84,"body":"mean, I've got a bunch of things"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2107.69,"endTime":2110.84,"body":"that helped the luck happen more"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2110.84,"endTime":2115.13,"body":"easily for me. And there's a"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2110.84,"endTime":2115.13,"body":"real danger of what are they"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2115.13,"endTime":2118.4,"body":"called survivor bias, which is"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2115.13,"endTime":2118.4,"body":"like, Hey, I survived that I did"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2118.4,"endTime":2121.73,"body":"this. Therefore, what I did must"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2118.4,"endTime":2121.73,"body":"be the truth. And it almost"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2121.73,"endTime":2126.4700000000003,"body":"always discounts the amount of"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2121.73,"endTime":2126.4700000000003,"body":"the roll luck and timing and"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2126.83,"endTime":2129.38,"body":"good break and all that sort of"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2126.83,"endTime":2129.38,"body":"stuff plays in your life."},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2130.13,"endTime":2131.75,"body":"So I want to"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2130.13,"endTime":2131.75,"body":"pause on that for a second"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2131.75,"endTime":2133.94,"body":"because you're using that word a"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2131.75,"endTime":2133.94,"body":"lot."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2133.9700000000003,"endTime":2137.21,"body":"I feel"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2133.9700000000003,"endTime":2137.21,"body":"lucky. Yeah. Okay. I'm like, I'm"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2137.21,"endTime":2140.27,"body":"smart. And I work really hard."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2137.21,"endTime":2140.27,"body":"And I keep putting myself in"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2140.27,"endTime":2143.9,"body":"positions where I increase the"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2140.27,"endTime":2143.9,"body":"odds that luck will happen for"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2143.9,"endTime":2144.7400000000002,"body":"me, don't get me wrong,"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2144.7690000000002,"endTime":2146.509,"body":"okay. Because"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2144.7690000000002,"endTime":2146.509,"body":"because I want someone listening"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2146.509,"endTime":2149.989,"body":"to this to not go oh, well, he"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2146.509,"endTime":2149.989,"body":"was just lucky. Yeah, that can't"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2149.989,"endTime":2152.2090000000003,"body":"happen to me. I would like"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2149.989,"endTime":2152.2090000000003,"body":"someone listening to this to"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2152.2090000000003,"endTime":2157.2490000000003,"body":"say, Yes, he was lucky. Here's"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2152.2090000000003,"endTime":2157.2490000000003,"body":"how I can take advantage of that"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2157.2490000000003,"endTime":2158.839,"body":"luck or make that luck. More"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2157.2490000000003,"endTime":2158.839,"body":"likely."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2158.8700000000003,"endTime":2161.2400000000002,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2158.8700000000003,"endTime":2161.2400000000002,"body":"exactly. So there's ways of"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2161.2400000000002,"endTime":2165.5,"body":"increasing the chances that you"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2161.2400000000002,"endTime":2165.5,"body":"will get lucky. You're unlucky"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2165.5,"endTime":2168.4100000000003,"body":"unlucky to have real success on"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2165.5,"endTime":2168.4100000000003,"body":"this. You also have a dose of"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2168.4100000000003,"endTime":2168.71,"body":"luck."},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2168.7400000000002,"endTime":2171.29,"body":"Yeah. What was"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2168.7400000000002,"endTime":2171.29,"body":"your first book? Was that the"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2171.29,"endTime":2173.78,"body":"Coaching Habit? Or was there a"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2171.29,"endTime":2173.78,"body":"book before that? And there's a"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2173.81,"endTime":2175.82,"body":"couple"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2173.81,"endTime":2175.82,"body":"of books before that. So"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2176.0,"endTime":2180.83,"body":"Coaching Habit came out in 2016."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2176.0,"endTime":2180.83,"body":"Before that I self published a"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2180.83,"endTime":2183.65,"body":"book called get unstuck, and get"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2180.83,"endTime":2183.65,"body":"going on the stuff that matters,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2184.07,"endTime":2188.1800000000003,"body":"which was a second Choose Your"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2184.07,"endTime":2188.1800000000003,"body":"Own Adventure coaching book. You"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2188.1800000000003,"endTime":2191.8700000000003,"body":"know, those kids flip books that"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2188.1800000000003,"endTime":2191.8700000000003,"body":"have a ballerinas head and a"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2191.8700000000003,"endTime":2195.59,"body":"scuba divers body and a soccer"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2191.8700000000003,"endTime":2195.59,"body":"players legs, you can think"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2195.59,"endTime":2198.83,"body":"about? Sure, yeah. So I created"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2195.59,"endTime":2198.83,"body":"a book where those three"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2198.83,"endTime":2202.4300000000003,"body":"sections was a point and a story"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2198.83,"endTime":2202.4300000000003,"body":"and a quote or with questions"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2202.4300000000003,"endTime":2205.4300000000003,"body":"attached. So you'd bring a"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2202.4300000000003,"endTime":2205.4300000000003,"body":"challenge to the book, you'd"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2205.4300000000003,"endTime":2210.05,"body":"open it up at one of the 125,000"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2205.4300000000003,"endTime":2210.05,"body":"different combinations. And"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2210.05,"endTime":2212.57,"body":"you'd have three questions to"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2210.05,"endTime":2212.57,"body":"provoke you to think differently"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2212.57,"endTime":2213.9500000000003,"body":"about whatever your challenge"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2212.57,"endTime":2213.9500000000003,"body":"was,"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2214.1000000000004,"endTime":2216.44,"body":"oh, that's"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2214.1000000000004,"endTime":2216.44,"body":"brilliant. Can we still get that"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2216.44,"endTime":2217.79,"body":"book or no, it's"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2217.79,"endTime":2219.71,"body":"out of"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2217.79,"endTime":2219.71,"body":"print, because I self published"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2219.71,"endTime":2221.3900000000003,"body":"and it cost a fortune to make"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2221.42,"endTime":2223.4300000000003,"body":"it sounds like"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2221.42,"endTime":2223.4300000000003,"body":"yeah, the cuts and everything"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2223.4300000000003,"endTime":2225.23,"body":"like that to create something"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2223.4300000000003,"endTime":2225.23,"body":"like that."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2225.53,"endTime":2227.8700000000003,"body":"Brutal"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2225.53,"endTime":2227.8700000000003,"body":"to try and create that. But that"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2227.8700000000003,"endTime":2232.1600000000003,"body":"was I got left money by my"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2227.8700000000003,"endTime":2232.1600000000003,"body":"grandfather. And it's kind of"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2232.1600000000003,"endTime":2235.34,"body":"the having a supportive spouse"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2232.1600000000003,"endTime":2235.34,"body":"myself, I was like, let's put"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2235.34,"endTime":2239.6600000000003,"body":"this money to this book. So as I"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2235.34,"endTime":2239.6600000000003,"body":"can do this book, and even if I"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2239.6600000000003,"endTime":2243.59,"body":"lose everything, it's found"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2239.6600000000003,"endTime":2243.59,"body":"money. So we're still ahead of"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2243.59,"endTime":2248.15,"body":"the game. And then I wrote a"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2243.59,"endTime":2248.15,"body":"book called Find your great work"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2248.15,"endTime":2251.9300000000003,"body":"and self published, it was a"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2248.15,"endTime":2251.9300000000003,"body":"little red book. But on the"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2252.6800000000003,"endTime":2256.01,"body":"basically the day hit self"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2252.6800000000003,"endTime":2256.01,"body":"published for the print run, it"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2256.01,"endTime":2258.8900000000003,"body":"got picked up by workman in New"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2256.01,"endTime":2258.8900000000003,"body":"York publisher and got"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2258.8900000000003,"endTime":2262.4,"body":"republished as do more great"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2258.8900000000003,"endTime":2262.4,"body":"work. So this is my flurry"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2262.4,"endTime":2265.79,"body":"within your publisher, and it's"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2262.4,"endTime":2265.79,"body":"sold about 100,000 copies over"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2265.82,"endTime":2266.96,"body":"over the years. Okay, I got"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2266.96,"endTime":2269.1800000000003,"body":"to stop on that."},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2266.96,"endTime":2269.1800000000003,"body":"Yeah, because we know that you"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2269.1800000000003,"endTime":2272.4500000000003,"body":"sold a million copies, but"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2269.1800000000003,"endTime":2272.4500000000003,"body":"100,000 copies for those who are"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2272.4500000000003,"endTime":2277.19,"body":"not familiar for a nonfiction"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2272.4500000000003,"endTime":2277.19,"body":"book in that category. That is"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2277.19,"endTime":2278.33,"body":"tremendous."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2278.36,"endTime":2280.94,"body":"It is,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2278.36,"endTime":2280.94,"body":"you know, I saw the stats on"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2280.94,"endTime":2284.9300000000003,"body":"this the other day of the front"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2280.94,"endTime":2284.9300000000003,"body":"list books. And so books"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2284.9300000000003,"endTime":2289.52,"body":"published within the year by a"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2284.9300000000003,"endTime":2289.52,"body":"regular publisher 15%, sold less"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2289.52,"endTime":2295.04,"body":"than 12 copies, at 6%. So less"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2289.52,"endTime":2295.04,"body":"than 5000 copies, which is the"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2295.04,"endTime":2299.84,"body":"generally accepted breakeven"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2295.04,"endTime":2299.84,"body":"mark for a brochure, and 0.4%."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2299.84,"endTime":2303.5,"body":"Sell More than 100,000 copies."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2299.84,"endTime":2303.5,"body":"So yeah, I sold mine over a"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2303.5,"endTime":2305.75,"body":"period of time, but still,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2303.5,"endTime":2305.75,"body":"that's a pretty good deal."},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2306.56,"endTime":2308.3900000000003,"body":"So I know the"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2306.56,"endTime":2308.3900000000003,"body":"Coaching Habit is the bigger"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2308.3900000000003,"endTime":2312.23,"body":"book, but I feel like do more"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2308.3900000000003,"endTime":2312.23,"body":"great work. There's a lot there"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2312.23,"endTime":2315.8,"body":"just to achieve that level."},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2312.23,"endTime":2315.8,"body":"Yeah. What were you doing to"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2315.8,"endTime":2316.58,"body":"make that happen?"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2318.4100000000003,"endTime":2320.9900000000002,"body":"Well, I"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2318.4100000000003,"endTime":2320.9900000000002,"body":"had a mailing list, so I got"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2320.9900000000002,"endTime":2324.59,"body":"people to buy it. And in the in"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2320.9900000000002,"endTime":2324.59,"body":"those days, newsletters were"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2324.59,"endTime":2327.59,"body":"less common and mailing lists"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2324.59,"endTime":2327.59,"body":"were more loyal and everywhere,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2327.59,"endTime":2331.52,"body":"there's less no social media"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2327.59,"endTime":2331.52,"body":"servers less crowded. So I think"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2331.73,"endTime":2334.3700000000003,"body":"I had a more loyal bunch of"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2331.73,"endTime":2334.3700000000003,"body":"people following me."},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2334.9700000000003,"endTime":2337.25,"body":"How did you build"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2334.9700000000003,"endTime":2337.25,"body":"that list prior to that point?"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2338.57,"endTime":2341.84,"body":"I don't"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2338.57,"endTime":2341.84,"body":"totally remember. But I did,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2341.9900000000002,"endTime":2345.1400000000003,"body":"very early on put out a video"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2341.9900000000002,"endTime":2345.1400000000003,"body":"called the eight irresistible"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2345.1400000000003,"endTime":2348.3500000000004,"body":"principles of fun. So you can"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2345.1400000000003,"endTime":2348.3500000000004,"body":"google that and you can still"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2348.3500000000004,"endTime":2352.4900000000002,"body":"find it. And it feels a bit slow"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2348.3500000000004,"endTime":2352.4900000000002,"body":"and antiquated now, but that was"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2352.55,"endTime":2356.33,"body":"that went viral that had some"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2352.55,"endTime":2356.33,"body":"millions of people watching it"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2356.6600000000003,"endTime":2360.02,"body":"before YouTube, unfortunately."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2356.6600000000003,"endTime":2360.02,"body":"So I don't have this great video"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2360.02,"endTime":2363.53,"body":"stats. And that poured a lot of"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2360.02,"endTime":2363.53,"body":"people to the newsletter, you"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2363.53,"endTime":2366.4100000000003,"body":"know, what's interesting, Dave"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2363.53,"endTime":2366.4100000000003,"body":"is, and this is part of the"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2366.4100000000003,"endTime":2369.38,"body":"origin story of the Coaching"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2366.4100000000003,"endTime":2369.38,"body":"Habit is having had this"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2369.4100000000003,"endTime":2372.98,"body":"success. So you know, solid"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2369.4100000000003,"endTime":2372.98,"body":"below success with do more great"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2372.98,"endTime":2377.54,"body":"work. I then spent five years"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2372.98,"endTime":2377.54,"body":"pitching workmen to publish the"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2377.54,"endTime":2381.05,"body":"Coaching Habit. And I just"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2377.54,"endTime":2381.05,"body":"couldn't get them interested in"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2381.05,"endTime":2384.5,"body":"it. I know, I literally rewrote"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2381.05,"endTime":2384.5,"body":"the book four or five times."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2385.3700000000003,"endTime":2388.3700000000003,"body":"Because I like Michael, we like"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2385.3700000000003,"endTime":2388.3700000000003,"body":"you. But we don't like this go"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2388.3700000000003,"endTime":2392.81,"body":"away and do it again"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2388.3700000000003,"endTime":2392.81,"body":"differently. And finally, after"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2392.96,"endTime":2395.78,"body":"literally four years of trying"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2392.96,"endTime":2395.78,"body":"to get them to get interested,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2395.78,"endTime":2399.6800000000003,"body":"I'd say okay, I've come back."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2395.78,"endTime":2399.6800000000003,"body":"And we're clear on what this"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2399.6800000000003,"endTime":2403.6400000000003,"body":"book is in my mind. So it's"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2399.6800000000003,"endTime":2403.6400000000003,"body":"like, take it or leave it. I'm"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2403.6400000000003,"endTime":2406.76,"body":"not going to come back again."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2403.6400000000003,"endTime":2406.76,"body":"And either yes or no, really"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2406.76,"endTime":2410.1200000000003,"body":"confident that they wouldn't"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2406.76,"endTime":2410.1200000000003,"body":"call my bluff. And they call my"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2410.1200000000003,"endTime":2412.79,"body":"bluff. They weren't right. We"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2410.1200000000003,"endTime":2412.79,"body":"don't want this book. I was"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2412.79,"endTime":2416.48,"body":"like, I was so surprised,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2412.79,"endTime":2416.48,"body":"because I thought I proven"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2416.48,"endTime":2418.9100000000003,"body":"myself with the first book. And"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2416.48,"endTime":2418.9100000000003,"body":"they were they were they would"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2418.9100000000003,"endTime":2422.09,"body":"take a bet on, you know, a"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2418.9100000000003,"endTime":2422.09,"body":"successful author. But they"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2422.09,"endTime":2426.11,"body":"turned down the Coaching Habit."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2422.09,"endTime":2426.11,"body":"And then I placed one of my"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2426.4700000000003,"endTime":2429.83,"body":"three best bets of my life,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2426.4700000000003,"endTime":2429.83,"body":"which is I'm going to self"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2429.83,"endTime":2433.52,"body":"publish this book, but I'm going"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2429.83,"endTime":2433.52,"body":"to publish it as a professional."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2433.6400000000003,"endTime":2437.09,"body":"So I'm going to hire a good"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2433.6400000000003,"endTime":2437.09,"body":"editor. We'll hire a designer,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2437.57,"endTime":2440.75,"body":"the designer introduced me to"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2437.57,"endTime":2440.75,"body":"page two who the team that have"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2440.75,"endTime":2443.54,"body":"helped me bring the rest of my"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2440.75,"endTime":2443.54,"body":"books to the market. And of"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2443.54,"endTime":2447.05,"body":"course, that book has over the"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2443.54,"endTime":2447.05,"body":"last six years changed my life"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2447.05,"endTime":2452.09,"body":"has sold a bunch and grown"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2447.05,"endTime":2452.09,"body":"companies and given me some"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2452.09,"endTime":2452.84,"body":"profile."},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2452.96,"endTime":2454.1000000000004,"body":"I feel like"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2452.96,"endTime":2454.1000000000004,"body":"there's a little bit of a"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2454.1000000000004,"endTime":2457.4,"body":"parallel to that and you're"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2454.1000000000004,"endTime":2457.4,"body":"getting the Rhodes Scholarship"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2457.4300000000003,"endTime":2463.07,"body":"in that you had a very clear"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2457.4300000000003,"endTime":2463.07,"body":"objective in your mind. You went"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2463.07,"endTime":2467.1800000000003,"body":"out and said, what is required"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2463.07,"endTime":2467.1800000000003,"body":"to get this? Yep, you get the"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2467.1800000000003,"endTime":2470.21,"body":"feedback and you go do it. And"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2467.1800000000003,"endTime":2470.21,"body":"it wasn't enough. And then you"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2470.21,"endTime":2472.6400000000003,"body":"do it again. And you do it"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2470.21,"endTime":2472.6400000000003,"body":"again."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2472.7000000000003,"endTime":2474.17,"body":"I hadn't"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2472.7000000000003,"endTime":2474.17,"body":"made that connection. But you're"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2474.17,"endTime":2479.15,"body":"right. That that Dave, and with"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2474.17,"endTime":2479.15,"body":"all of those, I was like, I'm"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2479.15,"endTime":2484.4900000000002,"body":"gonna go for it in the best way"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2479.15,"endTime":2484.4900000000002,"body":"I can. And that is sufficient"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2484.4900000000002,"endTime":2485.84,"body":"success in itself,"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2485.8700000000003,"endTime":2487.4900000000002,"body":"can you define"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2485.8700000000003,"endTime":2487.4900000000002,"body":"that a little bit more, that's a"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2487.4900000000002,"endTime":2491.2400000000002,"body":"really interesting statement. So"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2487.4900000000002,"endTime":2491.2400000000002,"body":"it shouldn't success in itself"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2491.27,"endTime":2493.58,"body":"with the"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2491.27,"endTime":2493.58,"body":"Coaching Habit, the week before"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2493.58,"endTime":2496.61,"body":"it kind of made its way into the"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2493.58,"endTime":2496.61,"body":"world, I say, this is a really"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2496.61,"endTime":2501.26,"body":"good book. And that is all the"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2496.61,"endTime":2501.26,"body":"success I could really ask for,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2501.29,"endTime":2505.2200000000003,"body":"which is I can control, which is"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2501.29,"endTime":2505.2200000000003,"body":"to write the best book I can."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2505.8500000000004,"endTime":2509.81,"body":"And I'm not gonna have done"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2505.8500000000004,"endTime":2509.81,"body":"that. So if this doesn't work,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2509.81,"endTime":2512.4500000000003,"body":"and this doesn't sell a whole"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2509.81,"endTime":2512.4500000000003,"body":"bunch of copies, I'm not going"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2512.4500000000003,"endTime":2516.11,"body":"to feel regret or failure around"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2512.4500000000003,"endTime":2516.11,"body":"that, I have done my very best."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2516.29,"endTime":2519.11,"body":"Now I had a, I made a commitment"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2516.29,"endTime":2519.11,"body":"that I was going to market this"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2519.11,"endTime":2521.9900000000002,"body":"book for a year. And we're gonna"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2519.11,"endTime":2521.9900000000002,"body":"give this a really good shot."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2522.5,"endTime":2524.8700000000003,"body":"And we're gonna all I can to"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2522.5,"endTime":2524.8700000000003,"body":"bring this book to market. And"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2524.8700000000003,"endTime":2528.32,"body":"that's a whole nother thing I"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2524.8700000000003,"endTime":2528.32,"body":"committed to, again, without"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2528.32,"endTime":2531.5,"body":"knowing the outcome, because I"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2528.32,"endTime":2531.5,"body":"could have I was on a bazillion"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2531.5,"endTime":2534.53,"body":"podcasts and articles and all"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2531.5,"endTime":2534.53,"body":"this other stuff. And I'm like,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2535.28,"endTime":2537.8,"body":"that could have all made no"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2535.28,"endTime":2537.8,"body":"difference whatsoever, it could"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2537.8,"endTime":2541.01,"body":"have still just sold 50 copies."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2537.8,"endTime":2541.01,"body":"And I'm like, doesn't matter."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2541.1000000000004,"endTime":2543.83,"body":"I've made the commitment. I'm"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2541.1000000000004,"endTime":2543.83,"body":"going to do it the best I can"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2543.86,"endTime":2547.01,"body":"that is now success, commit to"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2543.86,"endTime":2547.01,"body":"the process, rather than the"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2547.01,"endTime":2547.4900000000002,"body":"outcome,"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2547.67,"endTime":2549.9500000000003,"body":"commit to the"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2547.67,"endTime":2549.9500000000003,"body":"process rather than the outcome."},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2551.03,"endTime":2554.1200000000003,"body":"And boy, I can identify that. I"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2551.03,"endTime":2554.1200000000003,"body":"mean, really what we're doing"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2554.1200000000003,"endTime":2558.71,"body":"right now is one of those"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2554.1200000000003,"endTime":2558.71,"body":"things. For me, the success in"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2558.71,"endTime":2561.98,"body":"itself is that I've created"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2558.71,"endTime":2561.98,"body":"something or I'm creating"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2561.98,"endTime":2564.32,"body":"something lasting for my"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2561.98,"endTime":2564.32,"body":"children. Right, right,"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2564.32,"endTime":2568.01,"body":"actually. And even if this"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2564.32,"endTime":2568.01,"body":"doesn't take off, I'm okay with"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2568.01,"endTime":2570.1400000000003,"body":"that. I don't know if you're"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2568.01,"endTime":2570.1400000000003,"body":"okay with it, because you"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2570.1400000000003,"endTime":2573.5,"body":"probably like a little. No, no,"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2570.1400000000003,"endTime":2573.5,"body":"I know you. You're such a"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2573.5,"endTime":2576.53,"body":"generous guy, you would do this"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2573.5,"endTime":2576.53,"body":"anyway. Right. And I think"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2576.53,"endTime":2580.4900000000002,"body":"there's a lot of power in that."},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2576.53,"endTime":2580.4900000000002,"body":"I think, sometimes we hold on"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2580.4900000000002,"endTime":2586.4900000000002,"body":"too tightly to outcomes, rather"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2580.4900000000002,"endTime":2586.4900000000002,"body":"than focusing on just doing"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2586.4900000000002,"endTime":2587.69,"body":"something great."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2587.7200000000003,"endTime":2590.8700000000003,"body":"Yeah, I"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2587.7200000000003,"endTime":2590.8700000000003,"body":"think that's so bizarre to dance"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2590.8700000000003,"endTime":2594.2000000000003,"body":"here, Dave, you know, because"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2590.8700000000003,"endTime":2594.2000000000003,"body":"it's also helpful for to have"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2594.2000000000003,"endTime":2598.67,"body":"ambitions. Yes, so I have a"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2594.2000000000003,"endTime":2598.67,"body":"podcast too. It's called two"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2598.67,"endTime":2602.1800000000003,"body":"pages with MBAs. And in the last"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2598.67,"endTime":2602.1800000000003,"body":"book I published called How To"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2602.1800000000003,"endTime":2605.9900000000002,"body":"begin, I talk about my goal for"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2602.1800000000003,"endTime":2605.9900000000002,"body":"it being to have 10,000"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2606.17,"endTime":2610.04,"body":"listeners per episode. Now, it's"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2606.17,"endTime":2610.04,"body":"been going for nearly three"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2610.04,"endTime":2615.08,"body":"years, and it's at maybe 1000"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2610.04,"endTime":2615.08,"body":"listeners per episode. For the"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2615.08,"endTime":2619.4900000000002,"body":"good episodes. There's plenty"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2615.08,"endTime":2619.4900000000002,"body":"around 1000. And so part of me"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2619.4900000000002,"endTime":2623.0,"body":"is like, disappointed that"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2619.4900000000002,"endTime":2623.0,"body":"hasn't taken off, because,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2623.6000000000004,"endTime":2628.6400000000003,"body":"because I wanted to do more. But"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2623.6000000000004,"endTime":2628.6400000000003,"body":"then I'm like, so why do I do"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2628.6400000000003,"endTime":2632.4500000000003,"body":"this? And I know I'm doing it,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2628.6400000000003,"endTime":2632.4500000000003,"body":"it's a chance for me to become a"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2632.4500000000003,"endTime":2636.11,"body":"better interviewer. And it's a"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2632.4500000000003,"endTime":2636.11,"body":"chance for me to meet people who"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2636.6200000000003,"endTime":2640.4,"body":"Delight me and amaze me, it's"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2636.6200000000003,"endTime":2640.4,"body":"like sitting down to somebody"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2640.4,"endTime":2642.7400000000002,"body":"next to you at a dinner party,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2640.4,"endTime":2642.7400000000002,"body":"and you're like, Oh, my God,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2642.7400000000002,"endTime":2645.59,"body":"this turned out to be the best"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2642.7400000000002,"endTime":2645.59,"body":"conversation I've had for ages."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2645.8,"endTime":2647.96,"body":"You're fascinating. And I'm"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2645.8,"endTime":2647.96,"body":"like, I want more of those"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2647.96,"endTime":2652.1000000000004,"body":"people into my life. So I've had"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2647.96,"endTime":2652.1000000000004,"body":"to figure out how to ask myself,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2653.06,"endTime":2658.31,"body":"do I pursue 10,000 listeners?"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2653.06,"endTime":2658.31,"body":"and at what cost? Or do I"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2658.9100000000003,"endTime":2662.81,"body":"recalibrate how I think about"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2658.9100000000003,"endTime":2662.81,"body":"success? And do that other"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2662.81,"endTime":2665.63,"body":"investment of time and money"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2662.81,"endTime":2665.63,"body":"into other things? Where the"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2665.63,"endTime":2668.8700000000003,"body":"numbers matter more to me? And"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2665.63,"endTime":2668.8700000000003,"body":"what's the answer? I'm not going"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2668.8700000000003,"endTime":2673.2200000000003,"body":"to invest in marketing for the"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2668.8700000000003,"endTime":2673.2200000000003,"body":"podcast, because actually, for"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2673.2200000000003,"endTime":2677.36,"body":"my businesses, where I have"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2673.2200000000003,"endTime":2677.36,"body":"greater chance of having impact"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2677.36,"endTime":2681.02,"body":"in people's lives, and I also"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2677.36,"endTime":2681.02,"body":"have employees and contractors"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2681.02,"endTime":2684.23,"body":"that I support, it's more"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2681.02,"endTime":2684.23,"body":"important for me to grow those"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2684.23,"endTime":2687.65,"body":"businesses and have financial"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2684.23,"endTime":2687.65,"body":"success there. So investment in"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2687.65,"endTime":2690.7400000000002,"body":"marketing makes more sense for"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2687.65,"endTime":2690.7400000000002,"body":"that. But you're still going to"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2690.7400000000002,"endTime":2694.19,"body":"do that project. But I'm still"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2690.7400000000002,"endTime":2694.19,"body":"doing the podcast because I know"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2694.19,"endTime":2697.13,"body":"why I'm doing it and the"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2694.19,"endTime":2697.13,"body":"successes and the joy of doing"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2697.13,"endTime":2699.6200000000003,"body":"it, rather than in the verb"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2697.13,"endTime":2699.6200000000003,"body":"listeners I have."},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2700.07,"endTime":2703.25,"body":"Well, and I think"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2700.07,"endTime":2703.25,"body":"there's a lot to be said for"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2703.28,"endTime":2707.96,"body":"consistency, too. I've seen that"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2703.28,"endTime":2707.96,"body":"several times in my career where"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2708.56,"endTime":2712.82,"body":"I achieve a level of success."},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2708.56,"endTime":2712.82,"body":"And I go, that's not very much."},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2713.51,"endTime":2717.3500000000004,"body":"But I have faith in the"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2713.51,"endTime":2717.3500000000004,"body":"repetition of it. Yeah. And I"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2717.3500000000004,"endTime":2720.38,"body":"just keep at it. Some of these"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2717.3500000000004,"endTime":2720.38,"body":"things are war of attrition. You"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2720.38,"endTime":2724.25,"body":"just keep doing it. And then"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2720.38,"endTime":2724.25,"body":"eventually, because you've had"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2724.25,"endTime":2726.4700000000003,"body":"it out there so long, because"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2724.25,"endTime":2726.4700000000003,"body":"it's been happening so long, it"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2726.4700000000003,"endTime":2730.1000000000004,"body":"turns into something. So I could"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2726.4700000000003,"endTime":2730.1000000000004,"body":"easily see that happening for"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2730.1000000000004,"endTime":2732.4700000000003,"body":"you. And like with the two pages"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2730.1000000000004,"endTime":2732.4700000000003,"body":"pocket,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2732.53,"endTime":2734.3900000000003,"body":"it"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2732.53,"endTime":2734.3900000000003,"body":"might, and it would be"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2734.3900000000003,"endTime":2737.33,"body":"delightful if it does. And I"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2734.3900000000003,"endTime":2737.33,"body":"don't care if it does or not."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2737.9300000000003,"endTime":2741.59,"body":"Like I'm actively not caring"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2737.9300000000003,"endTime":2741.59,"body":"about that metric, because what"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2741.59,"endTime":2745.4,"body":"I actually care about is how do"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2741.59,"endTime":2745.4,"body":"I find amazing people for me to"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2745.4,"endTime":2748.4900000000002,"body":"talk to that the measure of"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2745.4,"endTime":2748.4900000000002,"body":"success for me?"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2749.54,"endTime":2752.1200000000003,"body":"I love it. Okay,"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2749.54,"endTime":2752.1200000000003,"body":"so you said something I gotta"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2752.1200000000003,"endTime":2757.7000000000003,"body":"ask. You said building. The book"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2752.1200000000003,"endTime":2757.7000000000003,"body":"was one of the three best bets"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2757.7000000000003,"endTime":2761.6000000000004,"body":"you've ever made. Yeah. So what"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2757.7000000000003,"endTime":2761.6000000000004,"body":"were the other two best bets?"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2761.6600000000003,"endTime":2761.81,"body":"Oh,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2761.84,"endTime":2765.5,"body":"One was"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2761.84,"endTime":2765.5,"body":"marrying masala. Okay. Second"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2765.5,"endTime":2770.69,"body":"was bedding on the Coaching"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2765.5,"endTime":2770.69,"body":"Habit book. And the third was"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2770.69,"endTime":2776.3900000000003,"body":"hiring the woman who is the CEO"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2770.69,"endTime":2776.3900000000003,"body":"for Box of Crayons now. So I"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2776.3900000000003,"endTime":2780.92,"body":"hired Shannon from behind the"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2776.3900000000003,"endTime":2780.92,"body":"bar of my favorite pizzeria, my"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2780.92,"endTime":2784.28,"body":"wife and I were sitting there,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2780.92,"endTime":2784.28,"body":"having a glass of wine eating"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2784.28,"endTime":2787.4900000000002,"body":"our favorite pizza, Shannon was"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2784.28,"endTime":2787.4900000000002,"body":"serving us and we went"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2787.52,"endTime":2789.8900000000003,"body":"regularly. So we saw her"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2787.52,"endTime":2789.8900000000003,"body":"regularly. And so we talked to"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2789.8900000000003,"endTime":2795.08,"body":"her. She was doing a PhD in"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2789.8900000000003,"endTime":2795.08,"body":"literature. So we're all book"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2795.08,"endTime":2797.4500000000003,"body":"geeks. So we're all having these"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2795.08,"endTime":2797.4500000000003,"body":"great conversations about"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2797.4500000000003,"endTime":2800.3,"body":"literary theory and favorite"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2797.4500000000003,"endTime":2800.3,"body":"books and less than the other."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2800.9900000000002,"endTime":2805.31,"body":"And then she had got let off"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2800.9900000000002,"endTime":2805.31,"body":"from one of her part time jobs"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2805.31,"endTime":2808.28,"body":"because she was a TA teaching in"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2805.31,"endTime":2808.28,"body":"the university, she had a"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2808.28,"endTime":2812.36,"body":"waitressing job, she had another"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2808.28,"endTime":2812.36,"body":"job. And she got let go of that"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2812.36,"endTime":2815.2400000000002,"body":"through no fault of her own,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2812.36,"endTime":2815.2400000000002,"body":"that company lost money. So I"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2815.2400000000002,"endTime":2818.48,"body":"hired her to come and help me do"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2815.2400000000002,"endTime":2818.48,"body":"some part time marketing for the"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2818.48,"endTime":2823.55,"body":"Coaching Habit just before it"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2818.48,"endTime":2823.55,"body":"launched. And I swear, this"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2823.58,"endTime":2826.9700000000003,"body":"woman is really smart, and"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2823.58,"endTime":2826.9700000000003,"body":"really impressive and really"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2826.9700000000003,"endTime":2830.9900000000002,"body":"good. And we've been working"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2826.9700000000003,"endTime":2830.9900000000002,"body":"together now for a little over"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2830.9900000000002,"endTime":2834.53,"body":"six years. And for the last"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2830.9900000000002,"endTime":2834.53,"body":"three, she has been the CEO at"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2834.53,"endTime":2837.5,"body":"Box of Crayons. So she's,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2834.53,"endTime":2837.5,"body":"there's one part of her is"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2837.5,"endTime":2840.77,"body":"totally freaking out, which is"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2837.5,"endTime":2840.77,"body":"like, what am I doing? I'm now"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2840.77,"endTime":2844.25,"body":"in charge of a multimillion"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2840.77,"endTime":2844.25,"body":"dollar company and a team of 20"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2844.25,"endTime":2848.6600000000003,"body":"and strategy. And all of this is"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2844.25,"endTime":2848.6600000000003,"body":"kind of a new world to her. This"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2848.6600000000003,"endTime":2853.46,"body":"is her first ever proper job."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2848.6600000000003,"endTime":2853.46,"body":"Like she's brilliant CEO, she is"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2853.46,"endTime":2858.6200000000003,"body":"just she's just CEO caliber in a"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2853.46,"endTime":2858.6200000000003,"body":"way that I could only dream of,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2858.6800000000003,"endTime":2860.75,"body":"except I wouldn't, because I"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2858.6800000000003,"endTime":2860.75,"body":"didn't want to be a CEO. I'm not"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2860.78,"endTime":2863.9,"body":"I'm not wired that way. And it's"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2860.78,"endTime":2863.9,"body":"not my strength. But oh my god,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2863.9,"endTime":2867.83,"body":"she's a better CEO than I ever"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2863.9,"endTime":2867.83,"body":"was, and I ever will be, and"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2867.83,"endTime":2872.1800000000003,"body":"kind of betting on her. And"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2867.83,"endTime":2872.1800000000003,"body":"figuring out what it takes for"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2872.1800000000003,"endTime":2876.3500000000004,"body":"this to become her company to"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2872.1800000000003,"endTime":2876.3500000000004,"body":"lead, rather than her managing"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2876.3500000000004,"endTime":2882.38,"body":"my company has been a bunch of"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2876.3500000000004,"endTime":2882.38,"body":"work and a big bet and a really"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2882.38,"endTime":2883.01,"body":"great bet."},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2884.03,"endTime":2886.19,"body":"I love it. I'm"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2884.03,"endTime":2886.19,"body":"guessing one of the things that"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2886.19,"endTime":2890.1200000000003,"body":"I teach to companies that are"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2886.19,"endTime":2890.1200000000003,"body":"hiring, as I talk about hiring"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2890.1200000000003,"endTime":2893.48,"body":"for traits versus skills, yeah,"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2890.1200000000003,"endTime":2893.48,"body":"all too often we look at the"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2893.48,"endTime":2896.69,"body":"resume of someone and say, well,"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2893.48,"endTime":2896.69,"body":"they've had this experience"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2896.69,"endTime":2900.08,"body":"before they've been a CEO."},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2896.69,"endTime":2900.08,"body":"That's why they'll be great. But"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2900.08,"endTime":2902.78,"body":"it sounds like you did exactly"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2900.08,"endTime":2902.78,"body":"that. Right? You found someone"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2902.78,"endTime":2907.55,"body":"you just said she's got the"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2902.78,"endTime":2907.55,"body":"right things, the right traits."},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2908.0,"endTime":2910.6400000000003,"body":"She's not she doesn't have the"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2908.0,"endTime":2910.6400000000003,"body":"experience. But she can learn"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2910.6400000000003,"endTime":2910.88,"body":"that."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2910.9100000000003,"endTime":2913.55,"body":"Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2910.9100000000003,"endTime":2913.55,"body":"yeah, I hired her for traits,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2913.55,"endTime":2915.86,"body":"which is like, I think you're a"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2913.55,"endTime":2915.86,"body":"hard worker, and you're smart,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2915.8900000000003,"endTime":2919.1600000000003,"body":"and you can manage running a"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2915.8900000000003,"endTime":2919.1600000000003,"body":"marketing campaign, which she"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2919.1600000000003,"endTime":2924.98,"body":"could. And then I promoted her"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2919.1600000000003,"endTime":2924.98,"body":"on traits, which is you have the"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2924.98,"endTime":2929.78,"body":"capacity, you have a way of"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2924.98,"endTime":2929.78,"body":"thinking that is rare and"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2929.78,"endTime":2933.59,"body":"beautiful. And something that"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2929.78,"endTime":2933.59,"body":"great CEOs have the ability to"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2933.6200000000003,"endTime":2937.13,"body":"see patterns, the ability to"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2933.6200000000003,"endTime":2937.13,"body":"figure out where the soft spot"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2937.13,"endTime":2939.77,"body":"is, and put a finger on it and"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2937.13,"endTime":2939.77,"body":"go, oh, we need to fix this."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2940.07,"endTime":2942.08,"body":"She's got all of that. Yeah."},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2943.2200000000003,"endTime":2947.21,"body":"It's wonderful."},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2943.2200000000003,"endTime":2947.21,"body":"What's next? Is it more of two"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2947.21,"endTime":2950.51,"body":"pages? Or is there something"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":2947.21,"endTime":2950.51,"body":"else that's on your radar? Well,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2950.57,"endTime":2952.4900000000002,"body":"I wrote"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2950.57,"endTime":2952.4900000000002,"body":"a book called How To begin, and"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2952.4900000000002,"endTime":2955.01,"body":"it's about how to set a worthy"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2952.4900000000002,"endTime":2955.01,"body":"goal. I mean, that's thrilling"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2955.01,"endTime":2958.58,"body":"and important and daunting for"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2955.01,"endTime":2958.58,"body":"you. And talk about three"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2958.58,"endTime":2962.1800000000003,"body":"different types of lenses into"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2958.58,"endTime":2962.1800000000003,"body":"your worthy got. One can be"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2962.1800000000003,"endTime":2966.4700000000003,"body":"about project when you building"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2962.1800000000003,"endTime":2966.4700000000003,"body":"or launching or starting. One"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2966.4700000000003,"endTime":2969.7400000000002,"body":"can be about relationships to"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2966.4700000000003,"endTime":2969.7400000000002,"body":"people, who are you in"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2969.7400000000002,"endTime":2972.1400000000003,"body":"relationship to this other"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2969.7400000000002,"endTime":2972.1400000000003,"body":"person? And how do you want that"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2972.1400000000003,"endTime":2977.09,"body":"to shift? And the third of the"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2972.1400000000003,"endTime":2977.09,"body":"PS projects people is patterns,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2977.1200000000003,"endTime":2980.8700000000003,"body":"which is who are you? And how do"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2977.1200000000003,"endTime":2980.8700000000003,"body":"you want to change and evolve?"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2981.83,"endTime":2985.79,"body":"What I'm trying to be is I'm"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2981.83,"endTime":2985.79,"body":"trying to be a writer, I'm"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2985.79,"endTime":2989.96,"body":"already an author, because I've"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2985.79,"endTime":2989.96,"body":"published a bunch of books. But"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2990.02,"endTime":2994.73,"body":"a writer builds a life around"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2990.02,"endTime":2994.73,"body":"writing around the input around"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2994.73,"endTime":2998.96,"body":"the discipline around the"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2994.73,"endTime":2998.96,"body":"consistency. And at the moment,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2998.9900000000002,"endTime":3003.4300000000003,"body":"I write books around the edges"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":2998.9900000000002,"endTime":3003.4300000000003,"body":"of other stuff that I do, rather"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3003.4300000000003,"endTime":3007.6000000000004,"body":"than make it front and center."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3003.4300000000003,"endTime":3007.6000000000004,"body":"So, you know, in a practical"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3007.6000000000004,"endTime":3010.09,"body":"sense, you know, I've got a new"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3007.6000000000004,"endTime":3010.09,"body":"book coming out in June next"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3010.09,"endTime":3014.11,"body":"year, on Sunday sent the final"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3010.09,"endTime":3014.11,"body":"draft off to the copy editor."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3014.6200000000003,"endTime":3019.0,"body":"But the biggest shift is to kind"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3014.6200000000003,"endTime":3019.0,"body":"of shift my identity to become a"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3019.0,"endTime":3023.2000000000003,"body":"writer, and then write a book or"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3019.0,"endTime":3023.2000000000003,"body":"two a year. I've got three or"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3023.2000000000003,"endTime":3026.26,"body":"four good ideas for books. And"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3023.2000000000003,"endTime":3026.26,"body":"so I'm like, How do I bring"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3026.26,"endTime":3029.32,"body":"those into the world over the"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3026.26,"endTime":3029.32,"body":"next two or three years? Oh,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3029.32,"endTime":3029.5,"body":"that's"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3029.5,"endTime":3031.6000000000004,"body":"impressive. It's"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3029.5,"endTime":3031.6000000000004,"body":"a lot. There's a lot, right. A"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3031.6000000000004,"endTime":3033.52,"body":"couple of books a year. Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3031.6000000000004,"endTime":3033.52,"body":"but you love it."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3033.94,"endTime":3036.88,"body":"I love"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3033.94,"endTime":3036.88,"body":"it in bits. And I love it."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3038.2000000000003,"endTime":3042.94,"body":"Miserable, but I like the"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3038.2000000000003,"endTime":3042.94,"body":"overall idea of bringing my best"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3042.94,"endTime":3047.6800000000003,"body":"work into the world as a book,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3042.94,"endTime":3047.6800000000003,"body":"for sure. Beautiful. All right."},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3047.71,"endTime":3051.4,"body":"So here's the"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3047.71,"endTime":3051.4,"body":"moment in the interview, where I"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3051.4,"endTime":3054.58,"body":"like to have a few summaries,"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3051.4,"endTime":3054.58,"body":"all right, and then because to"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3054.58,"endTime":3057.76,"body":"me, it's not about just learning"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3054.58,"endTime":3057.76,"body":"from you, although there's a lot"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3057.76,"endTime":3061.06,"body":"to that, to me. It's about what"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3057.76,"endTime":3061.06,"body":"we do as a result of what we"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3061.06,"endTime":3063.9100000000003,"body":"heard and so everyone listening"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3061.06,"endTime":3063.9100000000003,"body":"to this, they may have had 10 or"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3063.9100000000003,"endTime":3066.4,"body":"12 different ideas. And I'm"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3063.9100000000003,"endTime":3066.4,"body":"going to encourage everyone to"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3066.4,"endTime":3070.33,"body":"pick one thing to do so that you"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3066.4,"endTime":3070.33,"body":"make Michael a part of your"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3070.33,"endTime":3073.63,"body":"life. So I'm going to give a few"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3070.33,"endTime":3073.63,"body":"options to choose from. And then"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3073.63,"endTime":3076.3,"body":"if you'd like to add one or two"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3073.63,"endTime":3076.3,"body":"at the end, I'd appreciate that."},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3076.33,"endTime":3080.4100000000003,"body":"So the first thing, and this we"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3076.33,"endTime":3080.4100000000003,"body":"see this several times"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3080.44,"endTime":3086.2000000000003,"body":"throughout NBS, his career, the"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3080.44,"endTime":3086.2000000000003,"body":"differentiation, find a way to"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3086.2000000000003,"endTime":3089.5,"body":"stand out and be different,"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3086.2000000000003,"endTime":3089.5,"body":"whether that's the shirts that"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3089.5,"endTime":3092.83,"body":"you wear, or, you know, having"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3089.5,"endTime":3092.83,"body":"long hair and earrings with"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3092.83,"endTime":3095.5,"body":"that, or the names that you"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3092.83,"endTime":3095.5,"body":"choose, you've got to have"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3095.5,"endTime":3098.53,"body":"everything else solid, you got"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3095.5,"endTime":3098.53,"body":"to have the fundamentals there."},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3098.7400000000002,"endTime":3102.73,"body":"But then add just a little"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3098.7400000000002,"endTime":3102.73,"body":"something to it. And maybe"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3102.73,"endTime":3104.8,"body":"someone listening has got a"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3102.73,"endTime":3104.8,"body":"project they're working on. And"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3104.8,"endTime":3107.71,"body":"you can ask yourself, How can I"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3104.8,"endTime":3107.71,"body":"differentiate it just a little"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3107.71,"endTime":3110.8900000000003,"body":"bit mixed stand out? The second"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3107.71,"endTime":3110.8900000000003,"body":"thing that I wrote down, and"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3110.8900000000003,"endTime":3113.29,"body":"this is in general, we didn't"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3110.8900000000003,"endTime":3113.29,"body":"dive into it too much. But I"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3113.29,"endTime":3116.6200000000003,"body":"just know this about you and"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3113.29,"endTime":3116.6200000000003,"body":"your process. The first answer"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3116.6200000000003,"endTime":3119.8,"body":"is not the right answer. It's"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3116.6200000000003,"endTime":3119.8,"body":"not the only answer. Dig deeper,"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3120.01,"endTime":3122.6200000000003,"body":"be more curious. So in a"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3120.01,"endTime":3122.6200000000003,"body":"conversation that you have with"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3122.6200000000003,"endTime":3125.53,"body":"someone, maybe it's a difficult"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3122.6200000000003,"endTime":3125.53,"body":"thing that you're approaching,"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3125.53,"endTime":3127.75,"body":"and you got to work through it"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3125.53,"endTime":3127.75,"body":"with them. Keep asking"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3127.75,"endTime":3132.04,"body":"questions. I know, Michael, you"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3127.75,"endTime":3132.04,"body":"say stay curious longer. And I"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3132.04,"endTime":3135.55,"body":"want people to take that away."},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3132.04,"endTime":3135.55,"body":"And then the third one, I saw"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3135.55,"endTime":3140.53,"body":"this a few times. Consider if a"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3135.55,"endTime":3140.53,"body":"partnership will help you"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3140.53,"endTime":3144.82,"body":"succeed. in anything you do you"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3140.53,"endTime":3144.82,"body":"have a partnership with your"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3144.82,"endTime":3148.3900000000003,"body":"wife, I know that that's more"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3144.82,"endTime":3148.3900000000003,"body":"than academic or career"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3148.3900000000003,"endTime":3150.76,"body":"oriented, but that that"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3148.3900000000003,"endTime":3150.76,"body":"partnership helped you succeed,"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3150.88,"endTime":3154.2400000000002,"body":"you have a partnership with your"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3150.88,"endTime":3154.2400000000002,"body":"publisher, they kept pushing you"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3154.2400000000002,"endTime":3157.9,"body":"to do better with the coaching"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3154.2400000000002,"endTime":3157.9,"body":"habits, right. And that"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3157.9,"endTime":3160.15,"body":"partnership led to success. And"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3157.9,"endTime":3160.15,"body":"then you mentioned the"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3160.15,"endTime":3163.69,"body":"partnership with your CEO of"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3160.15,"endTime":3163.69,"body":"three years. And how that was"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3163.69,"endTime":3166.9900000000002,"body":"such a great choice. That's two"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3163.69,"endTime":3166.9900000000002,"body":"of your great bets, right?"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3167.4100000000003,"endTime":3169.6000000000004,"body":"I've had"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3167.4100000000003,"endTime":3169.6000000000004,"body":"a bunch of bad partnerships,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3169.6000000000004,"endTime":3173.59,"body":"they've, it's really important"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3169.6000000000004,"endTime":3173.59,"body":"to acknowledge kind of the ones"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3173.59,"endTime":3177.31,"body":"that have been mediocre or"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3173.59,"endTime":3177.31,"body":"disappointing or actively"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3177.31,"endTime":3180.7000000000003,"body":"broken. And I just reiterating"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3177.31,"endTime":3180.7000000000003,"body":"what you're saying, which is"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3180.7000000000003,"endTime":3183.7000000000003,"body":"like it's really worth"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3180.7000000000003,"endTime":3183.7000000000003,"body":"continuing to pursue the really"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3183.7000000000003,"endTime":3187.7200000000003,"body":"great partnerships because they"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3183.7000000000003,"endTime":3187.7200000000003,"body":"more than make up for the"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3187.7200000000003,"endTime":3191.17,"body":"disappointments that pull upon"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3187.7200000000003,"endTime":3191.17,"body":"the chips, which will inevitably"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3191.17,"endTime":3191.98,"body":"have will bring you."},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3192.67,"endTime":3195.4300000000003,"body":"Yes, exactly."},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3192.67,"endTime":3195.4300000000003,"body":"Anything you'd add to that as a"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3195.4300000000003,"endTime":3198.73,"body":"possible action someone could"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3195.4300000000003,"endTime":3198.73,"body":"take from what they heard of"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3198.73,"endTime":3199.36,"body":"your story."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3199.42,"endTime":3201.4,"body":"This is"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3199.42,"endTime":3201.4,"body":"in part about the new book"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3201.4,"endTime":3203.6200000000003,"body":"that's coming out later on. But"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3201.4,"endTime":3203.6200000000003,"body":"if you're thinking about a"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3203.6200000000003,"endTime":3208.42,"body":"partnership, have a conversation"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3203.6200000000003,"endTime":3208.42,"body":"before you start working on the"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3208.42,"endTime":3212.3500000000004,"body":"work about how you will work"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3208.42,"endTime":3212.3500000000004,"body":"together. I've started calling"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3212.3500000000004,"endTime":3214.9,"body":"this the Keystone conversation,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3212.3500000000004,"endTime":3214.9,"body":"which is like, let's have a"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3214.9,"endTime":3218.29,"body":"conversation about what we want"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3214.9,"endTime":3218.29,"body":"this relationship to look like."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3219.01,"endTime":3222.34,"body":"Not just get plunged into the"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3219.01,"endTime":3222.34,"body":"psyching work, because the work"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3222.34,"endTime":3225.4900000000002,"body":"is always exciting at the start."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3222.34,"endTime":3225.4900000000002,"body":"And it's always tempting to go"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3225.4900000000002,"endTime":3228.7000000000003,"body":"there rather than sit down and"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3225.4900000000002,"endTime":3228.7000000000003,"body":"go, Hey, Dave, when you've"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3228.7000000000003,"endTime":3231.19,"body":"worked with somebody like me"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3228.7000000000003,"endTime":3231.19,"body":"before and build a partnership"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3231.25,"endTime":3234.82,"body":"like this before, and it's been"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3231.25,"endTime":3234.82,"body":"really good. What happened? What"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3234.82,"endTime":3237.67,"body":"did you do? What did they do?"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3234.82,"endTime":3237.67,"body":"And when it's been"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3237.8500000000004,"endTime":3241.78,"body":"disappointing, or mediocre, or a"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3237.8500000000004,"endTime":3241.78,"body":"letdown, what happened? What did"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3241.78,"endTime":3246.01,"body":"you do what they do, and share a"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3241.78,"endTime":3246.01,"body":"conversation where you shape how"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3246.01,"endTime":3249.1600000000003,"body":"you imagine the best possible"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3246.01,"endTime":3249.1600000000003,"body":"relationship can be between you."},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3249.88,"endTime":3253.03,"body":"And when you do"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3249.88,"endTime":3253.03,"body":"that? Do you also write it down?"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3253.03,"endTime":3255.4300000000003,"body":"Do you make notes of it in some"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3253.03,"endTime":3255.4300000000003,"body":"way? Yeah,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3255.46,"endTime":3257.11,"body":"I mean,"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3255.46,"endTime":3257.11,"body":"first of all, if you ask a"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3257.11,"endTime":3260.6800000000003,"body":"question, both parties need to"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3257.11,"endTime":3260.6800000000003,"body":"answer it. So I don't just ask"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3260.6800000000003,"endTime":3264.07,"body":"Dave, what's the best and worst"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3260.6800000000003,"endTime":3264.07,"body":"working relationships? I tell"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3264.07,"endTime":3268.15,"body":"Dave, my own stories and my own"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3264.07,"endTime":3268.15,"body":"insights around that. And then"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3268.1800000000003,"endTime":3270.46,"body":"there's a question of going so"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3268.1800000000003,"endTime":3270.46,"body":"what do we want to remember from"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3270.46,"endTime":3272.6800000000003,"body":"this? What are our principles?"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3270.46,"endTime":3272.6800000000003,"body":"So you actually can write that"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3272.6800000000003,"endTime":3276.52,"body":"stuff down and kind of name it."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3272.6800000000003,"endTime":3276.52,"body":"But the most powerful thing"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3276.52,"endTime":3279.34,"body":"about having a conversation"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3276.52,"endTime":3279.34,"body":"about how you want to work"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3279.34,"endTime":3282.58,"body":"together, is it gives you"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3279.34,"endTime":3282.58,"body":"permission to keep having"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3282.58,"endTime":3285.7000000000003,"body":"conversations about how you're"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3282.58,"endTime":3285.7000000000003,"body":"working together. It actually"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3285.7000000000003,"endTime":3288.73,"body":"makes it something that's"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3285.7000000000003,"endTime":3288.73,"body":"allowed within the relationship"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3289.15,"endTime":3291.79,"body":"rather than something that"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3289.15,"endTime":3291.79,"body":"becomes increasingly weird if"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3291.79,"endTime":3292.84,"body":"you've never done it before."},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3294.19,"endTime":3297.25,"body":"I love it and"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3294.19,"endTime":3297.25,"body":"it's a culture of questions and"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3297.25,"endTime":3301.6600000000003,"body":"a culture of curiosity, which is"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3297.25,"endTime":3301.6600000000003,"body":"what you teach. Michael, this"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3301.6600000000003,"endTime":3304.8700000000003,"body":"has been fantastic anyone"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3301.6600000000003,"endTime":3304.8700000000003,"body":"listening also please subscribe"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3304.8700000000003,"endTime":3306.4300000000003,"body":"to his podcast to pages"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3307.6600000000003,"endTime":3309.04,"body":"double"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3307.6600000000003,"endTime":3309.04,"body":"my listenership."},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3311.8900000000003,"endTime":3314.3500000000004,"body":"And look up his"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3311.8900000000003,"endTime":3314.3500000000004,"body":"books on Amazon you also have a"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3314.3500000000004,"endTime":3317.4100000000003,"body":"course on LinkedIn learning I"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3314.3500000000004,"endTime":3317.4100000000003,"body":"do. So check that out. Michael"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3317.4100000000003,"endTime":3319.75,"body":"any other place you'd like"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3317.4100000000003,"endTime":3319.75,"body":"people to go to continue the"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3319.75,"endTime":3321.4300000000003,"body":"relationship that we just"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3319.75,"endTime":3321.4300000000003,"body":"started with you?"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3321.61,"endTime":3322.9900000000002,"body":"Look if"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3321.61,"endTime":3322.9900000000002,"body":"you if you're more of me"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3322.9900000000002,"endTime":3325.9300000000003,"body":"directly and kind of supporting"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3322.9900000000002,"endTime":3325.9300000000003,"body":"individuals to build better"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3325.9300000000003,"endTime":3329.98,"body":"relationships and to find the"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3325.9300000000003,"endTime":3329.98,"body":"next big thing. Then my website"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3329.98,"endTime":3333.4900000000002,"body":"is NBS dot works. If you're"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3329.98,"endTime":3333.4900000000002,"body":"somebody with a vast corporate"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3333.4900000000002,"endTime":3337.2400000000002,"body":"training budget, and you spend"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3333.4900000000002,"endTime":3337.2400000000002,"body":"all you can on Dave already, and"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3337.2400000000002,"endTime":3339.94,"body":"you're looking for something"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3337.2400000000002,"endTime":3339.94,"body":"else then box of crayons.com is"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3339.94,"endTime":3342.4300000000003,"body":"our kind of organizational and"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3339.94,"endTime":3342.4300000000003,"body":"corporate offering."},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3343.06,"endTime":3346.1800000000003,"body":"Wonderful MBS dot"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3343.06,"endTime":3346.1800000000003,"body":"works for the personal and box"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3346.1800000000003,"endTime":3351.94,"body":"of crayons.com for"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3346.1800000000003,"endTime":3351.94,"body":"organizations, Michael, I always"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3351.94,"endTime":3355.1200000000003,"body":"have so much fun talking with"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3351.94,"endTime":3355.1200000000003,"body":"you. I love your insight and"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3355.1200000000003,"endTime":3358.69,"body":"your personality and everything"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3355.1200000000003,"endTime":3358.69,"body":"about how you operate. So thank"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3358.69,"endTime":3361.3900000000003,"body":"you so much my friend for coming"},{"speaker":"Dave Crenshaw","startTime":3358.69,"endTime":3361.3900000000003,"body":"on the show. It's a pleasure"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3360.84,"endTime":3362.31,"body":"thank"},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3360.84,"endTime":3362.31,"body":"you for having me."},{"speaker":"Michael Bungay-Stanier","startTime":3361.3900000000003,"endTime":3361.54,"body":"they"},{"speaker":"Darci Crenshaw","startTime":3364.32,"endTime":3366.3,"body":"You've been"},{"speaker":"Darci Crenshaw","startTime":3364.32,"endTime":3366.3,"body":"listening to the Dave Crenshaw"},{"speaker":"Darci Crenshaw","startTime":3366.3,"endTime":3370.53,"body":"Success Project hosted by my"},{"speaker":"Darci Crenshaw","startTime":3366.3,"endTime":3370.53,"body":"dad, Dave Crenshaw, and produced"},{"speaker":"Darci Crenshaw","startTime":3370.53,"endTime":3374.3700000000003,"body":"by Invaluable Incorporated,"},{"speaker":"Darci Crenshaw","startTime":3370.53,"endTime":3374.3700000000003,"body":"sound editing was done by my"},{"speaker":"Darci Crenshaw","startTime":3374.3700000000003,"endTime":3376.92,"body":"brother Stratton Crenshaw,"},{"speaker":"Darci Crenshaw","startTime":3374.3700000000003,"endTime":3376.92,"body":"research and assistant"},{"speaker":"Darci Crenshaw","startTime":3376.92,"endTime":3381.33,"body":"production by Victoria Bidez."},{"speaker":"Darci Crenshaw","startTime":3376.92,"endTime":3381.33,"body":"Voiceover by me, Darci Crenshaw,"},{"speaker":"Darci Crenshaw","startTime":3381.42,"endTime":3386.25,"body":"and the music is by Ryan Brady"},{"speaker":"Darci Crenshaw","startTime":3381.42,"endTime":3386.25,"body":"via pond five licensing. Please"},{"speaker":"Darci Crenshaw","startTime":3386.25,"endTime":3389.31,"body":"subscribe to the Dave Crenshaw"},{"speaker":"Darci Crenshaw","startTime":3386.25,"endTime":3389.31,"body":"Success Project on Google"},{"speaker":"Darci Crenshaw","startTime":3389.31,"endTime":3393.1200000000003,"body":"podcast, Apple podcast, or"},{"speaker":"Darci Crenshaw","startTime":3389.31,"endTime":3393.1200000000003,"body":"wherever you like to get your"},{"speaker":"Darci Crenshaw","startTime":3393.1200000000003,"endTime":3396.96,"body":"podcasts. And please don't"},{"speaker":"Darci Crenshaw","startTime":3393.1200000000003,"endTime":3396.96,"body":"forget to leave us a five star"},{"speaker":"Darci Crenshaw","startTime":3396.96,"endTime":3398.82,"body":"review. See you next time!"}]}