The Dave Crenshaw Success Show

The World-Class Paraclimber, Ben Mayforth - The North Face Climbing Team

• Dave Crenshaw • Season 3 • Episode 8

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Hear the story of Ben Mayforth, an athlete who overcame staggering physical disabilities to become a 2X World Cup Paraclimber sponsored by North Face. His story of resilience and determination has inspired thousands worldwide. In this episode, you’ll learn how his positive mindset helped him push through failure and stay motivated to reach his goals. Listen to Ben’s story and pick one action that will help you focus on your success this week.



Action Principles 



Stay tuned for Part 2 of Ben Mayforth’s inspirational story and the actions you can take to incorporate his knowledge into your life.



Guest Resources



Learn more about Ben Mayforth by following him on Youtube or Instagram.



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Dave Crenshaw develops productive leaders in Fortune 500 companies, universities, and organizations of every size. He has appeared in Time magazine, USA Today, FastCompany, and the BBC News. His courses on LinkedIn Learning have been viewed tens of millions of times. His five books have been published in eight languages, the most popular of which is The Myth of Multitasking—a time management bestseller. As an author, speaker, and online instructor, Dave has transformed the lives and careers of hundreds of thousands around the world. DaveCrenshaw.com

Ben Mayforth:

we're purposely trying to find the most efficient way of the hardest part of a rock. Yeah, when we could simply take a long walk around it and be at the top of it right?

Dave Crenshaw:

Put up a ladder. Yeah, put

Ben Mayforth:

up a ladder type of deal. Yeah.

Dave Crenshaw:

In this episode, you'll get to know Ben may 4, the world class, parent climber, and you'll hear the story of how he overcame overwhelming physical disabilities, to becoming an inspiration, and a sponsored climber for North Face. I'm Dave Crenshaw, and this is my success Show. Welcome back friends to the Dave Crenshaw Success Show. This is where I speak to some of the most successful people I've met in my life journey. And as I explore their stories, I'm on a mission to find universal principles of success, things that you can use, and my family can use immediately today, to help you become more successful. In case it's your first time here. I'm a best selling author, I speak around the world to Fortune 500 companies. And I've taught millions of people how to be successful through my online courses, in particular, on LinkedIn learning. With this show, I wanted to do something different, something special sort of a legacy project that would help my family succeed. But I decided that I think everyone would want to hear this and come along for the ride. As you listen to today's episode, you want to look for something you can do an action you can take today or this week, to make my guests success story, a part of your success story. And I'm always trying to interview people who have multifaceted success, not just career or financial success, but people who are making a difference in the world, people who have balance, and they found ways to be happy in addition to their career. I mentioned with these episodes, I tried to interview people I've met in my life journey. And in this case, that is certainly true because my guests, and I just happened to be sitting next to each other on a flight. I was coming back through Dallas after speaking to the US Army, and I was sitting next to Ben may 4. I am so thrilled that he's here in my office today. So here's a quick introduction to a remarkable individual. Then may 4 is a two time World Cup para climber who defies all odds to pursue his passion for climbing. He is also an NA se certified speed and explosion specialist. Despite being diagnosed with spinal bifida and the bipolar disorder, Ben has placed in the top five for the i FSC para climbing World Cup numerous times since 2019. After coaching other aspiring climbers at a local gym for several years, he founded his own private coaching company may 4 made. Ben is a sponsored athlete and Representative for North Face and resides in Salt Lake City, where he continues to push his limitations every day. Ben, thank you so much for coming to my home. And coming to my home office to do this interview. I've been looking forward to this interview for quite a while. So thank you. No worries, Dave. Yeah. And I'm so grateful that just chance put us together on the flight back from Dallas and first class. And I met you and then once we had a conversation, I was like, Oh my gosh, how perfect is this guy to come on to the show. And I'm so grateful that you generously did that.

Unknown:

I was grateful for the opportunity. I had no idea who I was sitting next to on the plane.

Dave Crenshaw:

And then what I love too is I found out you read The Myth of Multitasking. And I was like, Oh my gosh, I'm going to read it. And it's just so much fun. And I do have to apologize. I mean, you were very cool about it. But I remember making a comment before I really got to know you. I was like, Oh yeah, I've had six knee surgeries. And then you said how many surgeries you've had? I've had

Unknown:

29 Yeah. And initially, I was like, you really don't want to know that number. Yeah,

Dave Crenshaw:

I took you in and I was like, Oh my gosh, I'm so sorry that I brought that. Because it's nothing compared to what you have overcome in your life, which is truly remarkable. It's quite a bit. Yeah. So let's start with that. For those who are just listening to this an audio. Talk to us about the physical limitations you've been dealt, what's the hand that you were dealt in life?

Unknown:

So when I was born, I got diagnosed with Vader syndrome, which means there's something wrong with my body with every major system in my body. Wow. So there's something wrong with my central nervous system, my endocrine system, my cardiovascular system, my urinary tract system, there's something wrong with every single system. They The only thing that I got lucky with was I didn't get a big heart defect. Normally, people diagnosed with failure syndrome do have some sort of heart defect. So far, there hasn't been any evidence of that, or any evidence of any brain defects. But I was born with one kidney, I was born missing four ribs on my right side, where my four ribs are missing my liver sets. With that specific skeletal issue it cause scoliosis. So my spine started curving. Luckily, I'm able to build muscle on my right side. So I have enough lats and traps to protect my liver. But typically, that's not what happens with this rib deformity. They say with that specific rib deformity, muscle isn't able to grow. And so there's a obvious decrease in weakness on whatever side that rib deformity is. And for some reason, my muscles are able to attach to a very small part on my spine and still wrap around that. Suppose that ribcage?

Dave Crenshaw:

Wow. I think that's sort of a beginning spot to understand who you are, because you have taken what you were given. But you have done truly remarkable things, and made the most of what you have. And that seems to be part of your character and who you are. Yeah,

Unknown:

I mean, for the most part, whatever was put in front of me, I'm like, Well, how can I just roll with the punches and keep going. And that's kind of how I've taken life in general, especially with Spina Bifida. Spina Bifida is my main impairment where my legs don't exactly communicate well with my central nervous system. So there's a slight miscommunication between my brain and my legs right around below my knees. And so I do have partial paralysis below my knees. So I just kind of roll with it, especially in any sport I've ever done. I've kind of like, well, how can I minimize the use of my legs and maximize the use of my upper body? And what I actually have that's mostly functioning.

Dave Crenshaw:

Yeah, and I love the the word that comes to mind is resourcefulness. Right? I think a lot of people, a lot of us say, I don't have this, I don't have this, I don't we focus on what we do not have. And the sense I've gotten from you, in the brief time I know you is that you say, Well, this is what I do have. And I'm going to make the most of what I do have. And I find that remarkable, admirable, and a great lesson for people yet to learn.

Unknown:

And initially, I was like, Oh, I only have my upper body. So I'm only going to work my upper body. Well, eventually, as I kept going on, especially when I got into rock climbing, I started using my lower body more, I realized that climbing with just my arms is actually if I wanted to make it a good career path, that I was going to have a very short career. So I found what I could actually use in my legs and maximize that potential. So I really only have decent mobility with my quads and a little bit with my hamstrings. So I overtrained that, just to make sure I could keep up with everything.

Dave Crenshaw:

I love it. So we're going to dive more into what you do, how it works with your climbing, I want to go back to the beginning because that's what I do with every guest. And I'd look at the where was the formation of this story and your formation of your success story. Start at the very beginning. Yes. Right. So talk to me about what the doctors said, what was the prognosis for you when you were born?

Unknown:

So when I was born, I was born in a small hospital that didn't really have a lot of resources to take care of such a weird and extreme birth. My parents actually had no idea that I was going to be born with a disability, they thought I was going to be born healthy. My mother's ultrasound got misread. And when I was born, my mom got to spend about 30 minutes with me. And then I was immediately rushed to University of Maryland to get checked out. The first thing the doctor said to my mom was it's not your fault. You had no control over this. We don't know how this happened. And we don't know what the prognosis was going to be. The doctor initially gave me a few weeks and they weren't sure if I was even going to make it through the first five days. Lo and behold, I made it through the first few days. And we just worked on whatever needs to be worked on. I had a few surgeries right off the bat. I spent six weeks in the NICU, just kind of developing the rest of my body that wasn't actually developed. And then my family took me home and had to do a lot out of care. There's a lot of machines and everything that my parents had to learn how to keep track of and keep maintenance of Luckily, my father was a mechanic, and my mother was a teacher. So they use their resources and their ability to problem solve to make sure that throughout my life, I had some sort of ability to problem solve around the issues that we had. That's really

Dave Crenshaw:

cool with your mom being a teacher. So she's looking at it from the standpoint of how can I help him grow? How can I help him succeed? And your father is looking at from the mechanic standpoint, what looking at practical solutions, adjustments to what the house was, like, what your environment was, like? Exactly.

Unknown:

That's really cool. A lot of the home modifications that we made around my disability, either my father or my uncle did it. My father was mechanic, and my uncle was a contractor. And so whatever they had to modify, they would modify it accordingly. There was even a time when like, my dad originally bought the house and the house was like 30 years old when he bought it. And it had these steep steps. So my dad eventually ripped up the whole entire deck and decreased the steepness of the stops. That way I could walk around the house and actually use the deck.

Dave Crenshaw:

Yeah. Do you have brothers and sisters?

Unknown:

I have a one half brother and I have a sister.

Dave Crenshaw:

So are you the oldest?

Unknown:

I'm the oldest. Yeah. Okay.

Dave Crenshaw:

And the reason why I ask is because then you were kind of establishing what the home was like. Yeah. Right, and then making those adjustments for you. So you're talking about kind of how things were changed in the physical place? What was going on? Psychologically? What were they teaching you? What were the values that you were given early on,

Unknown:

I didn't really realize that I was different. until much later in life, I would say middle school, I would probably chalk that up to just general cognition of a child. But her Honestly, my parents made sure that I knew what exactly was wrong with me from a very early age, and was very honest about like, the realities of life. Like if I went in for a surgery, that there was a possibility that I might not wake up. And we were a very religious family, we were Southern Baptists. Okay. And so my mother relied heavily on prayer and all that stuff, to kind of help the family get through that. Yeah, those are the lessons that they really taught me is that I was different, and that I was gonna have a hard life. But I had to keep making one step forward every single time. I

Dave Crenshaw:

love the honesty of that, right, is that I think, sometimes as parents, and I've got three children, you don't have any knowledge. But as a parent, it's so hard to know what path to take. And sometimes you want to shelter a kid, sometimes you want to shield them from these things. But I appreciate that your parents didn't do that. I think that is useful for you and prepares you better for life,

Unknown:

it prepared me for the realities of that everything was going to be hard. So anything that came in front of me that we were always going to have to figure out a way like, when I was growing up, driving was a big thing, especially in my family like driving and having that independence. And being in the state of Maryland that they were a list of processes that we had to go through to make sure that I efficiently got tested to see what adaptive equipment I needed, how to put that in that car, and then also how to make sure that I was properly trained on said equipment. So that all kind of took a long process. But it was a problem solving process. I had to learn how to deal with government bureaucracy at a very young age

Dave Crenshaw:

Akash. And were you able to drive starting,

Unknown:

I started driving around 17. Okay, so not long, so not long after, there were a lot of different processes and a lot of different tasks and took a lot to get scheduled times to start driving. And then we had to find a vehicle that I could drive and get hand controls set up in. And then it's like two weeks to get the hand controls set up. And yeah, and so it did take quite a bit of time.

Dave Crenshaw:

What I like about what you just said, there is the problem solving part of it. And it seems like we're going to talk about everything that you've accomplished in your career. But I feel like that's a principle that you learned that helped you be successful, which is that mindset of problem solving. Because there were a lot of problems to solve.

Unknown:

Yeah, there were a lot of interesting things that I had to work around and figure out different solutions

Dave Crenshaw:

to well, and isn't that even what they call it? When you're climbing? Yeah,

Unknown:

problem solving. Yeah, it's so when you're bouldering it's called a boulder problem, because you have to solve that problem. And even in sight of just normal climbing. You get these intelligent minds that are just everything about problem solvers, you get these big engineers, you get these computer software people. I've been more exposed to science people through climbing than I have through my actual own disability half the time. That's fascinating.

Dave Crenshaw:

Yeah. And in a general sense, and now I'm talking not just about climbing, I'm talking about life. What is the mindset that you have when presented with a problem? How do you solve it,

Unknown:

I take in as much information as I can, initially, I kind of look at the several different options I could go. And then I start working my way through what's the highest probability of something working? And then trial by air? So a lot of what I've had to do with my disability is doing trial and error type problem solving. Is this going to work? Or is this going to work? And sometimes it doesn't. And so just taking in knowledge in general, and later applying that knowledge that I gained in that data that I gained from the failed experiment, I can start doing deductive reasoning later on in some of my problem solving in life. Yeah.

Dave Crenshaw:

Oh, that's fantastic. And I think anyone listening to this can learn from that. And I also do want to emphasize to the error part of that trial and error. That means, if you're solving a boulder, yeah, you have error. Yeah. And you fall off, right? But then you go, okay, that approach wasn't okay, I'm gonna make a change. And I think a lot of people are so afraid of error of failure of mistakes, that they don't make attempts, and they kind of shut themselves down because of it. Yeah, I

Unknown:

mean, you gotta look at life and climbing like baseball, the best hitters only get on baits 30% of the time. Yeah. And so when you kind of look at it from that way, like, you're going to probably fail about 70% of the time to fail at something, some tiny part. It really sucks when you're a perfectionist, and you want to get everything correct, the first time or correct all the time. And I've had to learn from that. Like, as I've gotten older, I've realized that I am not the type of person that's going to get it right on the first go. And I'm gonna have to take in some of the knowledge and data and change certain aspects of how I approach certain situations, a lot of it whether it's work, life, or climbing, you just have to take it in.

Dave Crenshaw:

There's power in that acceptance.

Unknown:

Yes of it.

Dave Crenshaw:

The phrase I like to use. Ben, by the way is improvement test. Right, everybody talks about a perfectionist. And what I advocate what I try to be is an improvement is that means I'm getting better, but I'm never perfect. And that way, it leaves room for that error. It leaves room for those mistakes, while also encouraging me to grow. So where was the seed of the idea for I'm going to be an athlete. That's

Unknown:

a family thing. My mother was a softball player, and then played softball and volleyball throughout her whole entire life at fairly high competitive levels. And so I was just surrounded by softball and volleyball. My uncle was a professional volleyball coach in Japan, Thailand, oh, Dhabi. He still coaches around the world today, but he spent a good majority of his coaching career in Osaka. So I was just surrounded by all these sports while my dad and my other uncle were kind of the vagabonds of family. My dad and uncle went to Alaska, to work for the forest fire industry. My dad is a helicopter mechanic, my uncle as just a forest firefighter. And they got really into skiing and mountain climbing and Expedition life. So when my dad moved back down to the lower 48, and my uncle stayed, I would always hear stories of him talking about the mountains and everything. So I was surrounded by typical team sports like softball and volleyball shirt. I eventually got into wheelchair basketball, and I played wheelchair basketball, from 2006 to just about 2020. So my mother's influence on sports, took me all the way through high school, put me into college, doing team sports. I went to University of Missouri to play wheelchair basketball, but there was always this like, drive to be outside. Like, Wheelchair Basketball is fun, it's technical. It keeps the mind going. Sure, so much technicality to that sport. But it wasn't exactly the right fit for me. Like I made it work. for college, I made it work so that I could get through and get an education. And I really enjoyed it and enjoyed that team aspect. But eventually, I was like, really want to try this climbing thing. And my uncle and dad used to talk about Yeah. And so when I stopped playing wheelchair basketball, after my four years at Mizzou, I had to do a victory lap at Mizzou. What does that it's a fifth year. Okay, so during my fifth year, I started getting into rock climbing. So a friend of mine sent me to a bouldering gym. And he stopped climbing after that time, he took me to the bouldering gym, and I never stopped. I pulled onto the wall and started moving through some of these movements. And I was like, oh, it just feels like I'm supposed to be doing this. It was like the first sport I actually tried. And I've tried every possible adaptive sport out there. Sub skiing, ironically. Okay, I've never done skiing. And I just felt like it was just right. It was like my body was made to pull hard and figure out these different problems that I see. And it just kind of all made sense. Yeah.

Dave Crenshaw:

So I want to pause on this for a second, because you kind of hinted at it. But I just want to say it out loud the marriage of the influences in your life, right? Your mom with the sports with the team sport, your dad, with being outside and your uncle, right? And doing those sort of things and how that came together for what you're doing. Now, it doesn't always work out like that for everyone. But that line of influence is very powerful. Before we go into the climbing, what was something that you gained in college, or maybe was there a teacher or a mentor who had an influence on you in that continues to be an influence today,

Unknown:

I would say my coach from wheelchair basketball, we did not see eye to eye, okay, necessarily all the time, I could have gone back and done a fifth year of wheelchair basketball. But due to the fact that we didn't really see eye to eye all the time, I decided that it was better for me to take a step back. But some of his coaching principles were immensely influenceable. While I was in college, like what he used to have a saying called next play. It was a way to take a basketball game by possession by possession. So if you take each possession of the ball, and you win one possession at a time, whether it's a defensive possession, or an offensive possession, whether you get a bucket or rebound, eventually, if you win enough of those one possessions, the game is gonna go in your favor. And so he always said next possession all the time. So if you screwed up in one possession, right, there's 40 minutes of basketball to make up for that one moment of a mess up. So it's

Dave Crenshaw:

that trial and error principle again. Yeah, right. Like we learned from the last one, move on, don't spend a lot of time thinking about what went wrong. Just move on to the next play. Next.

Unknown:

Exactly. Yeah. And if you move on quick enough, that one mistakes not even going to be present. And

Dave Crenshaw:

I think so many people listening to this, who aren't athletes have these moments, and they really get mired down and I experienced that, right, you do something and it didn't work out the way you expected. And you just start to beat yourself up and say, I didn't do what I meant to do. And that was terrible. Instead of saying, next rep. Next problem, next client. Right, and moving on to the next thing. I think that's a powerful principle and that I don't think you could have accomplished what you've accomplished without having that mind. So

Unknown:

and even though like, I don't talk to my former coach anymore, or that we didn't see eye to eye all the time when I was playing, they were still huge principles about life and sports that you could take away from it. Another one was like ritualism. Talk to us about that. What is that ritualism is basically you taking control of what you do in your preparation for a game or preparation for, let's say, a work meeting or something like that, so that you can perform at your best, especially when you're looking at wheelchair basketball or climbing. You have competitions that you have no idea what's going to happen in a day. There are so many uncontrollable factors that are going to happen throughout your day that you create slight rituals to take control of your day so that you can ease your somatic anxiety around certain issues. I found it super helpful when I was doing wheelchair basketball that I developed a specific line of rituals. I even have specific clothing that I wear for a game day and now for Compass. Hitting climbing. I have specific shorts and pants that I like to wear.

Dave Crenshaw:

And how does that help you to have that,

Unknown:

it's just me taking one little control. Like, if you look at a lot of people that do something very, very well, they take control of small aspects in life. Like what they eat, what they do before, the small rituals just kind of helps you have a sense of control. And it kind of puts your mind at ease, and reminds you to get in that mindset of the next play or the whatever is going to come ahead of you. Because you know that there's going to be an unknown once you get there, right. But you taking control of those small rituals allows you to better perform later, when those uncontrollable circumstances happen. So especially like free throw routines, we were always told to have a routine or ritual before free throws. I had a certain amount of bounces and a certain amount of spins with the ball before I shot it. Yeah, you know, you only get like 10 seconds to shoot. I think

Dave Crenshaw:

we see that like in the NBA a lot. Right? There's a certain pattern that they follow. Yeah, as a Utah guy, I particularly remember Karl Malone had his thing. And he'd say, in the ball and say that thing every time. It's interesting. So I have a course on LinkedIn learning called unique habits. Yeah. And that's sort of what we're talking about. And I do want to make a distinction, too. I'm sure you'd agree with this. Like, I've had kids who deal with some OCD, their negative rituals? Yes. Right. And I was just going to ask you, but tell me if you agree with this, because it just hit me for the first time. One of them you're conscious of and controlling? Yes. And the other one is the ritual that's happening without you being aware. And it's just controlling you. Yes. Would you agree with that? Yeah, I

Unknown:

would, especially with OCD, like stuff like that definitely comes into play, like the ritual, you're not controlling it, right? It's controlling you, right? And it's making you do these lists of behaviors, that makes no sense. I've actually had to trim out certain parts of my ritual, because I was like, Oh, if I don't have this, I'm like, done. That's not actually the case. So over the years, I've actually trimmed and assorted, what healthy rituals were good for me, and what rituals were actually bad for me. So

Dave Crenshaw:

I'm gonna break from the chronology of the story for just a moment, because this is a great place to talk about it. When we met, you said that you had read The Myth of Multitasking, which was very exciting for me. And you said that you had incorporated some of the principles for that in your own unique way to climbing so that you were more focused. And I remember you talking to me a little bit about one of those rituals that you use to be more focused when you climb? Can you talk about that for a moment.

Unknown:

So I have a list of rituals. There's always one that I do even while I'm training. Most of my comp day, rituals come up only when I'm doing competitions, or the day before competitions, okay, but there's one that I consistently practice over and over and over again. And it's the clap and smile. So no matter what I do before I pull on a climb, I do kind of a quick ritual breathing, I hyperventilate myself, which improves focus increases oxygen in your blood, and allows you to delay this pump sensation that you get from rock climbing. You

Dave Crenshaw:

do that briefly right now so that people get a sense of

Unknown:

smell. Nice 10 breaths. Okay, a really quick psyching up and it just hyperventilates here just a little bit over oxygenates your blood you get a little bit of a head rush to. And then we do this clap and smile after I'm chalked up. That clap and smile is a physical cue for me to say, hey, nothing else around you matters, not the crowd at the blaze. Now what's going on in your personal life, all that matters is what you're going to do on this wall. And that is my specific cue to let myself know it's time to go. And it's time to get it done.

Dave Crenshaw:

So you've attached a series of thoughts or principles to the action. Yes, the action signifies all of these things that you believe in, and you do it and it just brings them all back to you. And

Unknown:

it just recalls everything. I love that clap has always been in my routine for competitions and always been in my climbing ritual. The smile was recent. I started doing the smile in 2022 My fiance realized, Hey, you don't smile. Do you actually enjoy this thing? Good for her. I actually like climbing and almost like yeah, I love climbing. And she's like, You don't smile. And then I started going back Do my footage. I'm like, Oh, I don't

Dave Crenshaw:

at all. I love her awareness and that perspective outside. Yeah, offer that to you. And

Unknown:

she was worried that it was becoming work, rather than just pure enjoyment. And so I decided that I was like, okay, I can do a smile. And what is the smile, remind you, the smile reminds me of everything. It reminds me of all the people that have been in my life that have supported me through this endeavor, and reminds me of the people that have influenced me. But it also reminds me that I love the sport. And if I didn't have the sport, with me, I don't know where I'd be. And that clap and smile was so important to helping continue my ritual. When I added that into my ritual for 2022, I won two World Cups back to back, I'm the first US male to win back to back World Cups for pair climbing. There's been other able bodied people that have done it, but I'm the first male to do it in pair climbing. And just that smile just reminded me like, this is the stupidest sport in the world I'm pulling on holds to get to the top of something that really doesn't matter in the moment, but also in the moment that it matters so much. And that's like the rough dichotomy of rock climbing. It's like, we're purposely trying to find the most efficient way up the hardest part of Iraq. Yeah, when we could simply take a long walk around it and be at the top of it. Put up a ladder. Yeah, put up a ladder type of deal. Yeah. So

Dave Crenshaw:

this is a good turning point, then to go bring us back to your climbing career. Where did the transition happen from trying for the first time and saying, Boy, I feel comfortable here to I'm going to compete, I'm going to be one of the world's best, how did you make that transition?

Unknown:

I think that was a slow transition. Like, when I started climbing, all I was doing was climbing in the gym, training, and then going outside with friends. Eventually, someone in my gym was like, hey, they're having an adaptive climbing festival. Let's put on by this guy named Ronnie Dixon. And I was like, Okay, I'll go check it out. So I packed up my van, and drove from Bel Air, Maryland, all the way down to Steele, Alabama, which is like a 1214 hour drive by myself to go to this festival. I'd never been around adaptive climbers before. And it's just climbing on my own. I heard that they were competitive options, but wasn't aware of like, how to sign up for them, how to do them, how to get everything in place for them. So I was a little bit lost in that process. And I went to this festival and got connected with all these amazing climbers in these organizations that we're putting on competitions. In fact, one was happening an hour and a half from my house, I went down there ran into somebody that lived two hours away from me that was putting on adaptive climbing programs in my own gym system. So the gym that I was going to add multiple locations, and then the southern most location, they were doing adaptive climbing, and I had no idea because I was all the way up north.

Dave Crenshaw:

So you didn't have anyone else that was even remotely dealing with the kind of things that you were dealing with. Before that. Right. Which here's another principle to call out is the power of group a power. You know, a lot of people refer in business as a mastermind. Yeah, it sounds like you found those people to help you. I

Unknown:

found that community that allowed me to take in different learning aspects. And so once I got tapped in with them, I ended up going to a couple more competitions, I ended up going to adaptive climbing nationals and ended up taking second in my first nationals. Wow, it's just because I had all those competitive principles and competition principles before from growing up around a sports family and being a collegiate athlete at that in a very intense collegiate athlete at that, that I just was able to carry that energy over and do extremely well.

Dave Crenshaw:

Who influenced you during that time? Or who provided coaching to help you learn new principles that applied to climbing,

Unknown:

a lot of it was just kind of self taught. Okay. Specifically, the one person that kind of helps me around the competition mindset of like, taking what I learned from wheelchair basketball and applying it to climbing was this head route setter and next professional climber Matt Bosley. He kind of helped me prepare For the competition scene, he's one of those dark horses that kind of just doesn't really boast much about himself and is a very humble guy. That's

Dave Crenshaw:

why I asked Yeah, because a lot of times, there's somebody who influences you that no one else really knows about. But they made a huge impact in you in your mindset. And

Unknown:

yeah, and guys made a huge impact. Once I said I was getting into competing, he started just giving me tips. It wasn't even like full like coaching. It was just like, hey, remember, this type of thing. And baz competed against like the best climbers like Chris Sharma, and Daniel woods and Paul Robinson, in Balzers, heyday, he was going against some of the highest names and climbing and keeping up with them and winning in a few circumstances. And just taking small lessons and small hands from him. Throughout my career, was definitely some of the biggest influences I've gotten. That's great.

Dave Crenshaw:

Talk to me about failure. As you first started to embark on this, you started to compete. That's great that you won. What was a moment that beat you up? And you question what you were doing? Did that happen? Yeah,

Unknown:

there were a couple points. First one was World Championships in 2018, first year competitive climbing, I started climbing in 2016. And I was in my first world championship in 2018. And I went into that, pretty confident, I was like coming off of three competitions where I'd gotten second, or better. And I was like, Yeah, I'm expecting the podium, I'm expecting to make finals and stuff like that. Got 10th. Okay, it was immensely disappointing. And shortly before that time, I found out that I was bipolar, and that I had a lot of ups and downs and a lot of highs and lows. And I kind of looked at myself for a little bit and was like, what's going on in my life that I can create some sort of baseline? What is something I can create these small rituals that can affect my daily life, not just as a climber, but also affect me for the better. And so I kind of took a look at myself, and I was like, hmm, I could probably, let's try getting rid of substances for a little while. So I cut out alcohol, I cut out weed, which I was smoking a lot at the time. And I just kind of took all the things that were like, bad that was going into my body and removing it. Yeah, you're eliminating variables, eliminating the variables from the equation? Yeah. Especially when I first started out training and needed to take in more movement data. I eliminated those bad substances and decided that I was going to try and be sober for a whole year till the next World Championship. And then I realized I was like, how much practice that I actually get in perfecting my routines and my rituals for climbing. I know I've had plenty of practice in wheelchair basketball. How much practice that I have here. I'm like sitting there. It's like, I had to maybe three competitions before my first world championship. But first World Championship was like, third or fourth competition. I was like, alright, let's find some competitions. Let's make some competitions. And so I started going around to local gyms that had citizens comps is what they like to call them, which is usually like, they'll have a youth comp during the day. And then afterwards, they let all the dads and local community members and coaches do a competition afterwards. So I asked them to put in an adaptive category in a lot of these local gyms. And they were like, yeah, we can do that. I

Dave Crenshaw:

liked that you created that. You didn't wait for someone else to create it. You did it. I

Unknown:

did it. Yeah. I was like, Hey, can we have an adaptive category and see what happens? And they were like, yeah, why not? Like, seems like a good inclusion part. And I kind of networked with a lot of local gym owners to kind of allow us to bring in a bunch of people and I started organizing events, and comps and we just kind of did it. I was able to find a good practice while doing that. So found a good ritual practice, went into nationals got second again, and then went into 29 teams World Championships, a much stronger climber, much more composed climber, eliminated a lot of things in my life to kind of figure out what was essential and ended up getting second the following year. So, so

Dave Crenshaw:

many positives. Yeah, came out of that that failure taught us so much and you learn from that failure and created a totally different approach. Yeah,

Unknown:

and I've had to adapt the approach over the years, just as I've gotten older, and new things in my life have popped up. But it's always figuring out what is essential to my baseline. And then what can be sacrificed for something new, or something more positive, like the clap and smile, and sacrificed a specific line of rituals. And before the clap and smile. My ritual started two days before. I don't need two days before now. I need a day before. That's about it. I love it. It's more of an evening, rather than a full

Dave Crenshaw:

day. And it's probably easier for you to execute on it because it is simpler. Yes. It's not quite as demanding. Yeah, yeah. That's powerful. And

Unknown:

it's like, for so long, it was like so, two days before a competition. I need to get this done. I need to get that done. It's kind of like the if you ever watch Major League, the movie

Dave Crenshaw:

blessing scene that you haven't seen? No. Okay. So tell me what the scene

Unknown:

there's a scene where they have a beautiful man. And he needs to bless a chicken before he goes out on the field. But they can't find a whole chicken. So Wesley Snipes, so this character brings him a bucket of KFC, and he's blessing the KFC as like a sacrificial, okay to his voodoo God. All right. And that's kind of like how my rituals words like, they were very long and very specific and processes. And I was like, this is a lot. The rituals became more stressful. I would

Dave Crenshaw:

think, though, too, you wouldn't feel quite as dependent on that much stuff, the more confidence that you gain. Yeah, you start to win. And I don't think this is a negative thing. Say, all right, I'm winning. What can I trim away from it? Maybe I don't need quite as much. Yeah, to get in that point.

Unknown:

That was the big thing. Especially when, in 2021, I miss podium for the first time in an IFSP event in a few years. And that happens, that just naturally happens. I actually have never done well in an IFSC event that was inside of the US. I've done well in USA climbing events, never IFSC event. I had so many rituals before that. I was like sitting there was like, What can I like, take out of this because like I'm doing too much. But I'm doing well in World Championships. What's the big factor? And it was my fiancee again, she's like, you're just doing too much. You're not actually enjoying life, you're so focused on the actual goal and the ritual, the goal that you're not taking in what's around you. And so in 2022, after another Miss of finals and podium, in Salt Lake, actually, it was here in Salt Lake I missed podium and I was like, I wasn't allowed to be mad cuz she still had to compete cuz she's a competitor as well. Okay. And I was like, I wasn't allowed to react in my typical failure way. I was like, I have to be the supporting person right now. My days done.

Dave Crenshaw:

That's great awareness on your yard. By the way.

Unknown:

It was a very hard lesson. Yeah. Because I have so much pride in what I do. But I realized that a monster has final sell, I have to be here for her. It's not about me anymore. It's, I have to let go and be supportive for her. And that's what I did. I came to her side and helped her prep. Unlike me, she has no routine, okay? She's very in the moment in the present. And that's how she likes to do things, which

Dave Crenshaw:

I think is illustrative. Everybody has their own processes, and that's fine. And that's

Unknown:

fine. And so I was like, you want to pack your bag the night before? And she's like, No, I'll just do it in the morning. I was like, oh, like, Are you sure?

Dave Crenshaw:

Sure.

Unknown:

Do you want to get your stuff? No, it's fine in just things laying around. And then next morning, she's just throwing things in her bag. And I was like, You have everything and she's like a thing. So when we get out the door and she's like, wait, and runs back in and forgot her jersey. So that ties will cause you which would cause me to a truckload of anxiety. Yeah.

Dave Crenshaw:

All right, I'm going to step away here from this interview with Ben May fourth. There was so much in here so much to unpack. And I want you to be able to hear the whole interview and get as much value out of it as I got. So we're going to step away here for part one, and then next week, I'm going to release part two of the Ben may 4 interview, it will be worth the wait. Thank you for listening.

Darci Crenshaw:

You've been listening to the Dave Crenshaw Success Show, hosted by my dad, Dave Crenshaw, and produced by invaluable incorporated research assisted production by Victoria Bidez Sand editing by Mark Lamorgese JC placed by me Darci Crenshaw, and the music is by Ryan rady via con five licensing. Please subscribe to the Dave Crenshaw Success Project on Apple podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you'd like to get your podcasts. If you have a suggestion for someone my dad might like to interview, please send it to guests at Dave crenshaw.com. And please don't forget to leave us a five star review. See you next time.

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