The Dave Crenshaw Success Show

The Emotional Intelligence Expert, Jenny Woo - CEO & Founder of Mind Brain Emotion

• Dave Crenshaw • Season 4 • Episode 9

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Jenny Woo, CEO and Founder of Mind Brain Emotion, is an emotional intelligence expert and educator. Jenny shares her journey from being a young immigrant from China to becoming a renowned leader in interpersonal skills. She discusses her diverse career path, from considering becoming a doctor or computer scientist to eventually finding her passion in training and developing people. Jenny also talks about the challenges of becoming a parent and how that led her to pursue a Harvard education and start her own business focused on making emotional intelligence accessible through educational games and products. Listen to her story and choose which action best fits your needs today!

Action Principles

Pick one to do this week:

1. Experiment. Trying new things and experiences will open the door to more opportunities. ACTION: Take a chance and do something you've been interested in but nervous to try.

2. Listen. Improve your listening skills to better understand those around you. ACTION: Take an active listening course.

3. Continued education. Expanding your knowledge is an investment in yourself. ACTION: Sign up for a LinkedIn Learning membership and schedule time to take courses that interest you.

4. Self-reflection. Understanding yourself and reflecting on your goals leads to long-term success. ACTION: Schedule a recurring time to spend time on self-reflection.

Guest Resources

Learn more from Jenny Woo on LinkedIn or by visiting MindBrainEmotion.com.

Suggest LinkedIn Learning Course

Delivering Results Effectively



Dave Crenshaw develops productive leaders in Fortune 500 companies, universities, and organizations of every size. He has appeared in Time magazine, USA Today, FastCompany, and the BBC News. His courses on LinkedIn Learning have been viewed tens of millions of times. His five books have been published in eight languages, the most popular of which is The Myth of Multitasking—a time management bestseller. As an author, speaker, and online instructor, Dave has transformed the lives and careers of hundreds of thousands around the world. DaveCrenshaw.com

Jenny Woo:

I never thought of myself being a teacher for a little kid, but yet, being in that context, I realized you also work with big kids, which are the parents, the adult who throws just as many tantrums, if not more.

Dave Crenshaw:

That is sadly true. Yes, in this episode, you'll get to know Jenny Wu, the emotional intelligence expert, and you'll hear the story of how a young immigrant from China became a world renowned leader in interpersonal skills. I'm Dave Crenshaw, and this is my success Show. Welcome back, friends to the Dave Crenshaw Success Show. This is where I speak to some of the most successful people in my life's journey, and I'm looking for universal principles of success to help both you and my family, in particular, my children. In case it's your first time here, I'm the best selling author. I speak around the world of Fortune 500 companies, and I've taught millions of people how to be successful through my online courses. With this show, I wanted to create something interesting, something different, to help my family succeed, and I thought you'd enjoy learning along with them. I'm always looking to interview people who have multi faceted success in many areas of their lives, not just career or financial success as important as they are, I'm looking for people who can teach you actions, show you things you can do right now to become more successful. So as you listen to today's episode, listen for something you can do, some action you can take today or this week to make my guest success story a part of your success story. And my guest today has a fascinating story, a very interesting and colorful career, and you're going to gain several excellent success skills from her. Dr Jenny Wu is a Harvard trained educator, EQ researcher and the founder, CEO of mind brain emotion. She's passionate about making science practical, so Dr Wu created award winning card games that help kids and adults build emotional intelligence. Her games, 52 essential conversations and 52 essential coping skills are popular in over 50 countries, earning her features in CNBC Fortune and Forbes, just to name a few. Jenny also teaches at the University of California, Irvine, and is a celebrated keynote speaker. Jenny lives in Southern California with her husband, three kids and their beloved poodle named oxytocin. Jenny, thanks so much for being on the show today. Well, I'm happy to be here. Thanks for having me, Dave. Yeah, and where are you located today? I am in San Diego, California. San Diego is a beautiful place. I like that area. I was down there for a speaking engagement not too long ago. I really enjoyed it. Yeah, it is gorgeous. We're actually new to San Diego, so I'm really excited to be exploring all the neighborhoods. Yeah, lots of fun neighborhoods to see. So let's dive into this. I always like to ask my guests the same first question, Jenny, which is, what did you want to be when you grew up? When you were young and first forming ideas about your future career. What did you think was going to happen? Yeah, you know, Dave, I was actually all over the place. I had a lot of interest, and so I wanted to be a surgeon, because I actually salivate in a good way when I see a surgery. And this was touring our local hospital while taking AP Bio as a teenager. And I was like, Oh, this is so cool, right? So that gave me sort of the green light, Hey, maybe I could do this. But yet, at the same time, I also really enjoy just learning how to code, teaching myself the different coding languages and so on the other hat, I'm like, Oh, what about a computer scientist? That would be really cool. And then, ever since I was little, I wanted to be I didn't even know this existed, but a motivational speaker. And partially because, honestly, I just love making people smile and making them happy and confident and believing in themselves. So you can imagine, honestly, all over the place, and when it was coming time to like a major I'm an immigrant, and so didn't really have a lot of network around us in the community, and really knowing role models and what are sort of the career path in different professions. And so being the most practical person that my dad was, he was like, you know, I don't trust doctors. I don't understand them when they talk to me, and they just bill me a lot of stuff. So he was like, and honestly, it is a long exp.

Jenny Woo:

Expensive, hard road. So don't be a doctor, right? So very counter intuitive to being a Chinese parents, and so he suggested going into business. It's the most practical thing you can be a generalist. And honestly, that's something I've been interested. I've always sold on the playground, door to door my whole life, I never really quite thought that was actually a profession, so I ended up majoring in that. Oh,

Unknown:

that's interesting. I want to back up just a little bit talk to us a little bit about your experience as an immigrant. You said you're Chinese. Is that where your family came from? How did that all come about?

Jenny Woo:

Yeah, so my parents actually came to the US five years prior to me. And so I was born in China. I came over around the age of 10. So for the prior five years, I had been living and raised by my grandparents. And so coming, yeah, coming over to Houston, Texas, it was bewildering in the sense of not just new culture and new language, but it was also reuniting with my parents, whom I hadn't seen for five entire years. I mean, back then, we didn't have face time, didn't even have a landline where my grandparents lived. It was sort of that kind of situation. And so to see my parents for the very first time in five years was kind of mind blowing. Yeah,

Unknown:

you'd be introduced someone new. Here's your mom and dad, right,

Jenny Woo:

exactly. And my grandparents obviously said a lot of things about my parents that I believed in, but it was sort of now my time to live with these two people that were my parents and finding out on layering, uncovering who they were.

Unknown:

And was that in California that you started Houston, Texas, and did you find that experience welcoming difficult? What was that like for you to live the first part of your life in China and then come to the United States, it was

Jenny Woo:

a lot of adapting and coping and kind of dealing with the unknown and the uncertainty. And I think for me, I was very outgoing. Loved talking to people strangers, especially just having a conversation and to be here, not even knowing the alphabet. It just felt like I couldn't fully express myself or communicate. And so in some ways, you know, it forced me to really read the social cues, to really be observant and pay attention to my surroundings and the people around me, but honestly, it was such a slow process, lots of patience required and positive self talk.

Unknown:

Well, you brought up what I was thinking, which is, you know, your work is in emotional intelligence and an empathy with people, and it seems like from a very early age that unique experience was forcing you to develop those kinds of skills. It's interesting how that early adversity or struggle that you dealt with seems to have shaped where you ended up with your career.

Jenny Woo:

Yeah, absolutely. It really forced you to unpack it and break it, breaking it down, and, you know, building empathy, a lot of the times is that we've been there. We've struggled. We know how it feels, and so that enables us to really connect with the people that we're helping, to have that common language. Yeah,

Unknown:

okay, so let's return back to your college education. Talk to us a little bit about what you learned during that time. Did you have mentors? What was that experience like?

Jenny Woo:

So I ended up majoring in business with a minor in information systems and an unfinished minor in interactive media and game design. This was at the University of Southern California, and it was a fabulous experience, in the sense that it was eye opening, coming from Houston to Los Angeles, a metropolitan city where it's rather non conformist, lots of different diversity and of opinions, experiences and socio economic status. But I ended up graduating that year early, because for me, I think I get really bored just simply learning and not applying or doing. In college, I did juggle multiple jobs. So what I learned was that juggling, you know, jobs in finance, doing stocks, commodity, even life insurance, I realized, you know, numbers, that's not quite for me. I can't really get passionate with numbers. And I also worked as a personal banker, and I was, like, not really into numbers, but really into helping people and talking to people and clients. And I also sold software, this is, like, by phone and fax at an internship. And I realized, you know, pro. X not quite interested in that either the features and the design. What I was really interested in were working with people. And so I ended up owning a business, starting a business during one of the summers, and really working with companies to sell their services to new students coming in, and so as brokering people and knowledge together. And so that's when I was like, Okay, I really enjoy problem solving and working with people around that.

Unknown:

For those who have not been in a sales position, they may not realize how much of it is about understanding other people and helping other people and being empathetic with them. So even though that wasn't for you, I'm assuming you learned a lot of valuable lessons for your business that helped with that success. Yeah,

Jenny Woo:

you know, it was all about active listening. You can't really connect with someone, or get to know their needs, or selling to them until you actually know what's truly important to them, and being able to communicate to them and the type of language that they can really digest and internalize. So that was one of the biggest learning for me.

Unknown:

So that first business, which is, I'm going to call it, I don't know if it's still the business, but typically that, yeah, so you're shaking your head, because typically the first business doesn't work out so well, is what I've seen in my work with entrepreneurs. So how did that go and how did it end up?

Jenny Woo:

So I was at USC very well to do right resourced campus. And so here I am thinking, wow. You know, these kids coming in, fellow students, have so much money and lots of international students as well, but what they need was where to spend the money, right, and what's best for them. And so for that business, it was a way of creating a student guide, but in a very interactive format. So back then, Flash, I don't know if you remember this, oh my goodness, just coming out. Yeah, we go way back. Yeah, yeah. So for those of you who don't know, it's one of the very first interactive, almost website, app design, in some sense. So my goal was, honestly, I just wanted to learn how to use the software. And so I said, why not learn it? Why make some money? So I created, wanted to create this interactive guide where I hook up with local businesses like Bank of America, where I was working, at office, default, different nightclubs, tattoo parlors, cryo banks and restaurants and buildings and residential places, so that they have an interactive directory of themselves with some marketing bullets and pictures so that incoming students, or even existing students, will know where they can go procure services and get different things. And so that's what I did.

Unknown:

And where did you make money in that process? Was that advertising for those companies? How did that model work?

Jenny Woo:

Exactly. It was advertising based. So I literally went, sort of door to door or fax by fax or call by call with the different businesses, and basically said, Hey, we have this X number of students coming in and to USC, and you know right now Your presence is not being known on campus. So do this interactive directory. I'm going to hand it out for free during on campus orientations and tours to the students, and this is where they will access and you can include discounts, everything tailored toward the students needs. And so I made money with businesses,

Unknown:

okay? And what would you say is the outcome of that.

Jenny Woo:

It was profitable, but I was still a student myself, and I was tinkering and exploring, and I knew it wasn't going to be the thing, and so I ended up dropping it after that year, so as one season of student guide, but

Unknown:

it was valuable from that learning experience, that that was a educational success,

Jenny Woo:

absolutely. That's when I learned that I can fake it till I make it. And that was also when I learned, oh my gosh, these people actually believe me, because it felt like very Playhouse ish, but they believe me, and these companies actually paid me, so it gave me a massive dose of confidence, of self empowerment.

Unknown:

Oh, that's beautiful. So how did you transition into the training industry and this side of emotional intelligence?

Jenny Woo:

One of the mentors, amazing that I had, was a professor that I had TA for in college, and when it comes to time for. To graduate to apply for jobs, he recommended that I look into consulting, because he knew I liked problem solving and working with people, and so I ended up interviewing with Deloitte Consulting, and that was my first job. So I interviewed for it, which is more of a technical analyst bro at Deloitte. But unbeknownst to me, my interviewers and staffing managers would have really looked at my experiences, and somehow they decided I was more of a fit for human capital.

Unknown:

For those who are not familiar with it, what is human capital? Human

Jenny Woo:

capital is where you do more learning and development. So you are a trainer at different fortune, 500 companies, you would train anywhere from new employees, onboarding them, to working with seasoned employees around leadership development or system training, business training, anything that is needed, as well as building organizations, teams and the communication plan related to running a business. So very different from the technical aspect,

Unknown:

what skills did you need to learn to be successful than that? Because that seems like a pretty big departure from what you were doing, which is a little more information systems, a little bit more sales. How did you adapt to that position?

Jenny Woo:

I didn't even know it existed, honestly, and I didn't find out till my first day of work and but what I learned was, you know, you needed a lot of people skills. You needed, again, that listening skill to understand what your clients need, and really that professionalism in engaging with someone, in my case, as a young, 20 year old, you know, someone who's 30s and 40s, to be able to really prove your credibility and that you're authentically Listening and you are here for them. So that type of social skills and people skills, again, going back to empathy, were critical in this role. What

Unknown:

you're saying is something that I can really relate to. Because when I started my career and I was working with entrepreneurs, I already kind of had a baby face, so I was, you know, 23 and I look like I was 15, and I started coaching entrepreneurs who were in their 40s and 50s. For me, the confidence that I gained was relying on someone else's credibility and someone else's material. How did you develop the confidence in that setting to consult people who were older than you and may have thought, why is this young person trying to tell me what to do? Yeah,

Jenny Woo:

absolutely. I certainly relied on the brand of Deloitte, right? It was absolutely filtered, but yet, at the same time, I felt pressured to represent Deloitte at a positive light. Because, you know, internally, we have the stroke saying, you know, if you're a new consultant, don't read consulting for dummies book in front of your client, right? So all those career limiting moves, those landmines that you had to watch out for. So I relied honestly in just really listening and acting mature, right, instead of your demeanor, in some sense, and also your results right at the end of the day, it's also what you create and what you recommend.

Unknown:

Okay, so this is a great place for us to pause and dive into a principle that you've already brought up, and a principle that I'm sure you teach with all of your work on emotional intelligence, which is listening. And the reason why I want to emphasize that, and have you kind of teach us a little bit is a lot of times people think that it's about me showing someone else that I know what I'm doing, I have the knowledge to help you. And in fact, in consulting and coaching and on a lot of things, it's not about what you know, it's about your ability to listen to the other person, share what they know, and then help them make good decisions based on that. So could you talk to us a little bit about how someone could do a better job of listening.

Jenny Woo:

So listening is really about getting curious of the other person, right? It's not about simply listening so you can respond, and you're crafting your answer, trying to show off while the other person's listening talking, you're absolutely listening, and it's you're not just listening to what they're saying, but you're also listening to what they're not saying, and one of the fundamental important thing to also keep in mind is leave the judgment aside. We have biases assumptions, so we need to really check how we're internally responding to. People while we're listening. I think it's really important to be a clean slate and listen to understand instead of listening to judge. And I

Unknown:

would add to that, it puts people at ease, but they, I believe, perceive you to be more intelligent when you actually don't say quite as much you said, you know, listen to what they're not saying. But also, I would say paying attention to what you don't need to say, and instead allow it to breathe and allow someone else to say it, and then they go, man, Jenny's really smart. Dave is really smart. Well, actually, no, I just kind of was quiet and I allowed you to express your intelligence, rather than me trying to fill in everything that you were saying

Jenny Woo:

exactly. And you know that poignant pause, right? Sometimes you if you just give it a little bit of a pause and be comfortable with that, the person will keep going and perhaps reveal something that they weren't actually intending to reveal, and it gives the psychological safety right, the space to allow the person to carry on and to sort of self reflect and synthesize what they're saying themselves in the process.

Unknown:

Yeah, that's such a great principle. Okay, so you had a lot of different things you said in the beginning when you were a kid. You had lots of different things that you're interested in. Your career has not been a straight line, right? Lots of different experiences that you've had. I would love first of all to have you talk generally about that, like, why did you do that? How do you feel about that? And then maybe share one specific job that you had that influences what you do today.

Jenny Woo:

It seems to be all over the place, but there certainly is a common thread of working with people, people development. But one thing that has really worked for me, that I've learned along the way, again, that common denominator is you can create your own opportunities. And by opportunities I mean something that's even unimaginable. So one example is while I was at Deloitte, I ended up getting a little bit bored, and the typical path for a consultant is to go to business school. And so that's sort of the point where I was thinking, Oh, maybe it's time to move on. Yet I still needed to make a living while applying to grad school. And so what I ended up doing, which is sort of far off, is, you know, at the time, I really enjoyed this coaching people, but not just professionally, but also personally, and that mind body connection, so I didn't know it's possible, but I was just kind of having fun and exploring. And so I worked out at, say, 24 hour finish the gym, and I saw these fitness trainers, and I was like, that looked like a fun job, and I bet there's some transferable skills I can use to be able to do the same thing, but I need to learn the skills of a fitness trainer, right? The basics. And so I ended up getting a job, and I got the job as a fitness trainer, and they paid for me to get certified. And so you can transfer and make these opportunities, and there were also, when I say the impossible, the unimaginable, what I mean was that when I decided to leave Deloitte, my client was Chevron, and part of being in an established consulting firm is the non compete cloth. You cannot work for the same firm, and you know, you have to move on, but my clients at Chevron really enjoyed my work and my contribution, and so what had happened, again, unbeknownst to me, was that they ended up making a deal with Deloitte, with the partners, so that they ended up hiring me directly After as a contractor, which you're not supposed to do, but somehow it ended up being on good terms, and I was ended up charging the same billable rate that Deloitte was charging on behalf of me, but now it's it was all going into my own pocket. So that was eye opening. And I don't want to say it was just kind of materialized, right? Obviously, there will be lots of hard work involved, and you would plant some seeds, and obviously results, again, speak louder, right? So I think it's that knowing that process and putting in the hard work and knowing where you can broaden the hard work to that made the difference. The

Unknown:

phrase that comes to mind that I love is Chance favors the prepared, and these opportunities came about because you were doing great work, because you were working so hard, and then something new happened. I mean, that's what happened with me, with with LinkedIn learning. I've now been with them for close to 15 years, but that. When that opportunity first came in 2010 I wasn't even aware of something like being an online educator, but the work that I did in coaching others and consulting others, and the work that I did in writing a book set me up for that opportunity. So when it came was like, oh, it just happened. Well, no, I did the work and you did the work to put yourself in that place so that when the opportunity came, you were able to seize it absolutely.

Jenny Woo:

Understanding those building blocks, right, and having a general vision of where you're trying to go is important. Yeah,

Unknown:

what was something that did not work during that time, what was a failure that you had, that you learned from? Yeah,

Jenny Woo:

I hate calling things failure, because everybody makes mistakes, and it has such a negative connotation. I think we learn as long as we learn something, it's part of the process. But to answer your question, right here, I am helping people to learn, be poised, be better, leaders, human beings. And yet, you know, it was eye opening when I became a mom, and here I am at home, not composed, crazy, crazy and being so stressed out, going, Oh my gosh. I'm supposed to keep these human beings alive. And by the way, I had one and two, very shortly, twins. So I had three, under three, all in diapers.

Dave Crenshaw:

Oh my goodness. So

Jenny Woo:

it was Yeah, exactly so not quite failure, but it was humbling, and seeing myself in this light and going, Who am I anymore? Do I know this person and what am I supposed to do? So it entirely flipped my life upside down. And in fact, I ended up changing career, leaving jobs, and, you know, all that good stuff that I can talk about,

Unknown:

yeah, well, please do talk about that, because I think a lot of people experience those transitional moments like that, where maybe they become a parent, or something changes with their health, whatever it is. So I would love for you to talk about how you came to the decision that, yes, I need to change my career because of this change in circumstance.

Jenny Woo:

So my twins were preemies, one was for less than three pounds, and the other one couldn't breathe on his own. So it was not, yeah, so it was, it's very scary, right? When it's always health related, and it was not a smooth journey. And so I think the combination of needing to take care of my kids and also, to be very honest with you, Dave, I didn't have the most ideal childhood, so part of me is very much really wanting to be that parent that I didn't have to have that childhood and give that to my kids. And so coupled with all of those, I decided, you know, it was really hard to stay engaged at work. And at the time, I was in a leadership rotational program at Cisco Systems in the in Silicon Valley, and it was, you know, stressful, high expectation, high visibility job, and I just felt like I couldn't give it my all in terms of employee engagement. And so that gave me the difficult decision to leave the job, and so I left, focused my time with the kids. Did some contracting on my own for training, leadership development, but really it was both of my kids, but I have to say it was from that experience that I also again, learned some of the unimaginable, or the possibilities are much wider than I thought. And so I ended up starting a successful Etsy business, oh, and then later on becoming an educator, and got educated at Harvard myself and doing what I'm doing now.

Unknown:

Okay, I want to talk about Harvard, but first of all, that's just really curious. An Etsy business. What were you selling in the Etsy business?

Jenny Woo:

Yeah, lots of things. I always liked. Do it yourself. DIY did that for my wedding. Did that for a kid's birthdays. And so at the time, Photo Booth props were just coming out. So I made Photo Booth props, the mustaches, the eyeglasses, the Tierra, all you can think of for weddings and kids, birthdays and kids, banners and honestly, Dave, these were all just came out of my own creation for my own parties. And it was really it just took a friend who said, Hey, Jenny, you know, people actually buy these things on Etsy. And my response was, what's Etsy? Yeah, right, right. And so you just get curious look into it, and that's how it happened. Would

Unknown:

you consider that like a side hustle, a side hobby, or were you actually trying to turn it into a full business when you did that? Yeah.

Jenny Woo:

It was definitely a side hustle. My priority were still my kids, but I ended up engaging with the other fellow parents, moms, and they worked for me, and we ended up working on some high celebrity wedding events and misbuts and things around that.

Unknown:

And if you're comfortable with it, I'd be curious to know a little bit about what the what the conversations were like, what the decision making process was like with your husband at that time, right? Because there's a lot of changes that are happening, and you're experimenting with a few different career paths. How did you two come together and come up with a plan together to make it work?

Jenny Woo:

There are lots of conversations to be had, because I've had a lot of twists and turns, but I have to say, having a supportive partner who also listens is incredibly important, and he is one. And in my youthful days, I definitely I was, you know, headstrong, stubborn, you know, have my ways, and sometimes I also had sort of like a victimized outlook, in some sense, because being a mom and being a mom of three and preemies were really hard, and I honestly had my resentful moments. Because for me, I think the initial conversation of leaving my job was really partially like we need to take care of the kids and economically and make more sense that I take care of three. But for me, I was feeling also a bit resentful and just mourning over my identity in the business world, because I got my MBA from Berkeley, you know, was on this track and leadership development, but I had to leave despite being partly, you know, my choice, really. And so he was there not only to support my decision, but to help me understand what I had to offer and my opportunities. So he would say, you know, I'm on your team. I'm your biggest cheerleader. And that was one of the thing that really just saved us on the same page. What a

Unknown:

wonderful thing to say and be for someone else. That's fantastic. And I want to say too that, do you have to have a partner to be successful? No, but it does seem like that is a bit of a pattern of the people that I interviewed that they have someone in their life who is highly supportive, like that, it gives them a reservoir of of strength that they can depend on. It sounds like that was that has been certainly a factor in your success.

Jenny Woo:

Yeah, absolutely. And you know, this ability to divide and conquer. You don't need someone who's doing exactly what you're doing in order to understand you. In fact, he's sort of a bit of an opposite in that sense. But you just need the understanding, the empathy for each other, right? And being on the same team together,

Unknown:

that's wonderful. So Okay, let's talk about Harvard. How did that come about? What were you planning on studying there? What did you study there?

Jenny Woo:

Harvard was something that really came about after I had been a Montessori school director at the kids, my kids' schools. And you know, I never thought of myself being a teacher for little kids. But yet, being in that context, I realized you also work with big kids, which are the parents, the adults who throw just as many tantrums, if not more. That

Dave Crenshaw:

is sadly true. Yes.

Jenny Woo:

So I was like, hmm, that I began to think, Well, why can't they teach these emotional intelligence, human decent, empathy skills, much earlier on, so that I don't have to deal with adults that we see today. And Dave, you know, working in companies, right? Coaching leaders to be able to be good managers, not the toxic workplace, sort of that environment, right? So those all came into my decision to study at Harvard, and this was at the School of Education with a special focus in developmental cognitive neuroscience, because I really wanted to understand, what does the science say in terms of how we learn, how we think and how we act,

Unknown:

and what did you gain from that education in particular to help with that?

Jenny Woo:

You know, a lot of the times when you go to school, especially being older, I think it's not just what you learn inside the classrooms, but really outside the classrooms, the informal conversations, the observations, and for me, then, as a 35 year old, a rather non traditional person going into graduate school master's program, I was not just there to really learn from the professors, but I was there to observe what kind of. People were successful enough to go to Harvard, so I very much observed my colleagues, the fellow students, and that is where I learned, you know, this importance of as a child, having these supportive relationships, whether it's a teacher, you know, a parent, or a relative that really makes so much difference, and having those incredibly important conversations, not just learning to learn, but conversations about life, life lessons, experiences that were important. And so those are the things that really inspired me to create, the cards, the products that I have today. And, you know, it's funny, in the beginning, I said it's really hard to get passionate about products, and ironically, I'm doing products, but my mission was really to distill, and almost, yeah, I used the word smuggle To be honest, because I'm the first one and my family to graduate college, and so to go to Harvard was beyond my dreams, and so I wanted to smuggle out all these amazing knowledge research and these informal lessons conversations I was having in and outside of the classrooms, so that everyone can understand, learn, apply and enjoy, as accessible as it can be.

Unknown:

What's an interesting word, smuggle. Does it seem like it's protected knowledge? Like, what is it about that where you felt like, Oh, I'm getting away with something, or I'm taking something that other people don't know? What caused that mindset. It's

Jenny Woo:

two folds. It's actually the institution, but also my own perception of myself. So academia, especially within the ivory tower, there is a sense of prestige meritocracy, right? You have to get in to get access to this information, and that's what today's unfortunately, college admissions is all about this craze, right? So smuggling in that sense is, well, I'm sneaking all this out of the ivory tower of research of higher education, and in my view, I'm creating it in a way that the average Joe or Jenny down the street doesn't matter if you're a teenager, you've never gone to college, never intend to that's perfectly fine that you can apply, because application is the most important thing to me. So that's one fold. But the second one is, you know, to be honest, I've always had this imposter syndrome. You know, maybe it's carried over of being the immigrant, being the one who's always on the outside, not quite trying to, you know, belong and fit in, and understand the language, the culture, and you know, all that resourceful things that you're supposed to know. And so for me, it's also like sometimes, you know, to be honest, I do question like, did I earn it enough? So that probably also, is also why I use the word smuggle. Yeah,

Unknown:

that's really interesting. I can relate to that concept. The way that I think of it is one foot in, one foot out, meaning I'm not fully indoctrinated in something. I can appreciate it, but I can look at it say, what do people need? So for example, like with my first book, The Myth of Multitasking, my job was not to be the expert. My job was to be the evangelist. Someone else is the expert. They've already done the studies, they've done the research. But the question is, how do we get people to change behavior. Use the Word application, right? That's the question. How do we take all this wonderful research and knowledge that other people are doing and actually get human beings to act on that knowledge? So I think you and I are kindred spirits in that

Jenny Woo:

respect. Yeah, absolutely, Dave. I love that briefly

Unknown:

talk about what is the value of a Harvard education like in your career, that's a pretty heady name to have associated with you. Do you feel that that has made a significant difference? Do you feel here's the big question people wonder. Do you feel like it was worth it, like you're getting the ROI back from that?

Jenny Woo:

Honestly, it's how you make it worth it for you. And in some ways, in the case of Harvard, right this huge, internationally, well known brand, I hate to say it, it's also how you milk it. So how do you use and leverage this brand? And it was until Harvard that I realized that, you know, I should own it, because I've earned it. And again, going with that imposter syndrome, I've always felt like, you know, I already have had a master. Degree from Berkeley before then, you know, and some certifications, but I always felt like I shouldn't brag, otherwise, in some ways, I'm a sellout to my upbringing, you know. And I've always been taught to be very modest and humble, and so having attended Harvard was actually the first time where I realized, you know what, I did it, and I should celebrate it instead of hiding it, which is a tendency I like to do. Because, honestly, I like people to just see me for who I am. I don't like to leverage. Again, we talked about depending on something, right, depending on the brand. But yet, the cruel thing is that in the business world and the entrepreneur world, you need these things to give you credibility, to automatically help people filter out who they're talking to and why they're talking and your potential in some way, right? And so for me to answer your big question, it absolutely was worth it 1000 times, and it has really done a significant impact on my life, partly because I leverage it, and partly because of the brand itself and the network. Well,

Unknown:

it's also the nature of what you're doing. You are a subject matter expert, and an expert has expertise, and so to be able to tie yourself to, as you mentioned, an internationally recognized brand in college just adds more credibility to your expertise. So I think that's brilliant, and I love your response to that. Talk to me now about what your days are like what is a daily life in someone who is trying to reach people and help them learn greater emotional intelligence.

Jenny Woo:

Honestly, my day first is really a mother, again, still that mother of three, but now there are three middle schoolers. And you know how it is, Dave, just what you thought you you're done with my one milestone. You have the routines, something else comes up. So we are at a new school and a new city, so my days are really open to, you know, what things might come up, and really adapting, adjusting to this new environment alongside my kids, but really, you know, I created this business so that I can have freedom financially, but also from a time perspective. And so I honestly, right now I'm really treating my business again like a side hustle, so that enables me to do what is needed and what is fun, right? The extra curriculars, the traveling and all the good stuff. And that's by intentionality. And you know, this really came about about two years ago, because I had been running the business since 2018 the year I graduated Harvard, but I continued on to earn a PhD. So I have been a student, a parent student, for a long time, and so it was until two years after

Unknown:

there's a lot of stuff that's going on. So as a time management expert, I look at this and I go, Okay, what's going on with the math here? Right? 168 hours. How's she spending those in the week? So how do you wrangle all of those different things that are going on?

Jenny Woo:

You know, honestly, it's about working smart, and you're not chasing perfection. You need to understand your priority. And for me, the hardest portion was really being the student parent, and so how I split my time was really before kids got up, I did some work, but it was really prioritizing what on, what needed to be done, and also while kids were in school, as well as in the Evening. So obviously, you know, I traded watching TV to getting stuff done, but at the same time for me as a parent, I was really adamant about being there for my kids, right, making the concerts, the talent shows, the performances, and having sort of those golden hour to three hours to interact with them, to understand how their days went. And

Unknown:

are you, I'm assuming, you're protecting those times, for example, like you're not allowing yourself to be interrupted with text messages and emails and that sort of thing while you're focused on family activities.

Jenny Woo:

You know that is my goal. I can't say 100% I'm perfect in that. And in fact, I was just speaking on this term phubbing. Right? For those of you who don't know, phobing is when you are browsing your phone, whether it's for work or for leisure, while someone else is next to you, talking to you. I think we're all guilty of that, right? So. I do my best to not. Fub, well, I am spending quality time with my kids. And yes, you are correct even now. You know, working wise, I tell people, you know, I can be available between the hours of

nine or 10am to to 2:

30pm those are really my golden working hours. Anytime after that, I prefer not to work.

Unknown:

Yeah, that's great. I so I actually do an exercise Jenny on my keynote speeches, where I have someone Fub on someone else. We have one person listen the first time someone talks about something they're passionate about for like, 30 seconds. Oh, I love the sport, or whatever it is, and then they switch roles, and the other person fubs, while the person is talking to them. And I ask, how does that make you feel? And everyone uses some phrase the form of the word unimportant. They feel less valuable because someone is doing that. So speaking of EQ, that's a really important thing for us to be aware of. And in fact, let's, let's use this. We do have to eventually wrap up here. This is a fantastic conversation. Could you share with us something that someone would learn in one of your classes or in one of your brilliant games, your card deck? Share a principle with us, please, of how to have more emotional intelligence with the people around us. One

Jenny Woo:

thing I say is we do emotional intelligence because we want to know how to make emotions work for us and not against us. We've all had these incidents where we blurted out or done something that we later regret, and so one thing to know is that no one is perfect. It's not like a subject that you ace it and you move on. It's a continuous process, and it's context specific. So the fundamental things we need to do is to build our self awareness. And by that, I mean to really take some time during your day, whether it's five minutes, 10 minutes, to self reflect. What are some of the emotions you're experiencing, and how are those emotions causing you to think the stuff that you might say to yourself, are those positive or negative? Do you see things as a threat or as a challenge? And how is it causing you to take some actions? For example, are you avoiding something? Avoiding doing something because you're afraid, right or not sure? Or are you launching into it? Maybe because you're rather impulsive. So it really starts with those little sprinkles of self check to build your self awareness, and then from there, you understand how to regulate your behaviors, emotions, and how to do the same with other people. Yeah,

Unknown:

the way that I'm reinterpreting that is almost view yourself like you're a passenger, like you're looking at and saying, What is this? What is this person? Jenny, doing? Why is Dave running away from this? And if you can be a little bit more objective about yourself. You can see those patterns easier. Is that a proper way to look at it?

Jenny Woo:

Great. Summary, be that fly on the wall and observe yourself.

Unknown:

Yeah. Well, this is fantastic, Jenny. I've really enjoyed getting to know you. So at the end of every episode, what I do is, because I'm a fan of application like you, I like to help the listener find something they can do, something they can do today or this week, so that they actually take action on our conversation, not just be inspired by it. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to summarize three actions that stood out to me, and then I'd like you to suggest one additional one at the end. Does that sound good? Sounds great. Okay, so the first one that we've identified throughout your story and throughout your journey is being willing to experiment, being willing to try lots of different things, even if you don't know how it's going to turn out. In the end, you were confident in starting that experiment of having the business in college, and then you've you experimented with Etsy, and you experimented with all these different job opportunities that you've had, educational opportunities like Harvard. All of it is useful if you do your best. And Jenny created lots of opportunities for herself because of her willingness to try different things. So I would ask someone listening to this to consider what's something that maybe I'm afraid to try and maybe just experiment with it. It's okay if it doesn't work out the way you intended, it can still open doors in the future. The second one is the value of listening. And Jenny said, listen to what they are not saying and leave the judgment aside no matter what you're trying to accomplish, whether it's grow in your career, make a sale or build a relationship. With your partner, listen. Just pause and leave room for people and spend time listening to them. You cannot go wrong. You will always benefit from taking that time to listen to others. And then the last one is just a general example from Jenny's story. Is the value of education. Jenny has always been learning throughout her life, she's a sponge for knowledge, and I think that's something we all can do a little bit more with. You don't have to go to Harvard to do it. You don't even necessarily have to go back to college, but you can carve aside time in your week. For example, you could take courses on LinkedIn learning. And every time you devote time to gaining education, it's always time well spent. So create a schedule for yourself to do just a little bit more with that. Jenny, what's an action that you would suggest from this conversation? Yeah,

Jenny Woo:

well said. Dave, so I would combine actually your number two and three, you said, listening to others in education. And I would say, also, listen to yourself and learn from yourself in terms of what is it that you really want to do. And by listening, I mean, give yourself the time to really think this is really is an environment where I see myself thriving. Do I really have that much energy in my body when I think about doing something right? Because a lot of the times these days, I see people, especially emotional intelligence. Standpoint, is that we have this sense of FOMO, right? We don't want to miss out on the next biggest thing, or, you know, we have that shiny object syndrome of, we need to get into this, because this is where the market is going. Yes, but are you listening to yourself in terms of, is that really what you're interested in, what you really want to do? So take the time to listen also to yourself.

Unknown:

Yeah, that's fantastic. Thank you for that, Jenny, I've really enjoyed our conversation. You have such a fascinating career in life. If someone wants to continue to follow you and learn from you, where is the best place for them to go?

Jenny Woo:

LinkedIn is the best place just look up Jenny Wu or you can find me on my website, which is mind brain emotion.com, same with Instagram and YouTube at mind brain emotion.

Unknown:

Mind brain emotion. Jenny, it's been a real pleasure to get to know you. Thank you so much for sharing some of your time generously with us. Well, thank you for having me, Dave, and thank you everyone for listening. Remember, it's not just about the knowledge that you received or how you were inspired. It's about the action that you take. So do one thing this week, from what you heard in this interview, and you'll make Jenny's success story a part of your success story. Thanks for listening.

Darci Crenshaw:

You've been listening to the Dave Crenshaw Success Show, hosted by my dad, Dave Crenshaw, and produced by invaluable incorporated research and assistant production by Victoria Bidez, Sound Editing by Nikic Wright, voiceover by me Darci Crenshaw, and the music is by Ryan Brady via Pon five licensing, please subscribe to the Dave Crenshaw success show on Apple podcasts, Spotify, wherever you like to get your podcast. If you have a suggestion for someone my dad might like to interview, please send it to guests at Dave crenshaw.com and please don't forget to leave us a five star review. See you next time you.

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