D-Day's Legacy Lives On As Modern Political Battles Unfold - with John Graves

https://millionvoices.org/

When titans clash, nations tremble. The recent public dispute between Elon Musk and Donald Trump represents more than just a personality conflict—it embodies a fundamental tension between principled idealism and political pragmatism that could reshape American politics for generations.

Against the backdrop of D-Day's anniversary, we explore how this modern conflict mirrors historic challenges that required both strategic compromise and unwavering purpose. David Barton shares fascinating insights about how D-Day's success hinged on elaborate deception, with General Patton serving as a crucial decoy that drew German forces away from the actual landing sites. Just as those coordinated tactics changed the course of World War II, today's political battles demand similar strategic thinking and unity of purpose.

The heart of the Musk-Trump disagreement centers on America's fiscal future and how to achieve meaningful reform. Musk, the world's richest man and a brilliant business innovator, approaches government spending from a principled stance rooted in fiscal responsibility. His frustration with Washington's inability to address the national debt resonates deeply with many Americans. Trump, having grown through his first term, now navigates the practical realities of a narrowly divided Congress where the recent spending bill passed by just one vote (215-214).

Most concerningly, history warns us about the devastating potential of this rift. John Graves of Million Voices draws powerful parallels to Ross Perot's third-party campaign, which split the center-right vote and delivered the presidency to Bill Clinton—twice. Yet there's hope in that painful lesson: following Perot's failed presidential bid, his supporters helped Republicans gain 54 House seats in 1994, delivering many of Perot's policy goals including a balanced budget.

Rather than choosing sides in this conflict between powerful allies who have both made extraordinary sacrifices, we explore how their complementary strengths could unite for greater impact. The wisest path forward may be channeling reform energy toward competitive congressional races, creating the legislative majority needed for meaningful fiscal discipline while maintaining executive leadership committed to conservative principles.

Join us for this timely conversation about principles, pragmatism, and the prayer-centered leadership that has carried America through its greatest challenges.

Chapters

• 0:07 Welcome and D-Day Remembrance
• 5:02 The History Behind D-Day
• 11:00 Prayer's Role in America's Victory
• 15:45 The Elon and Trump Conflict
• 19:30 Principles vs. Pragmatism in Politics
• 23:57 Finding a Path Forward Together

Transcript

Rick Green [00:00:07] Welcome to the intersection of faith and culture. Thanks for joining us on the WallBuilder show. Check out our websites today at wallbuilders.com for all of our information on events coming up, tools and resources, all of it available to you there at wall builders.com. And that's where you can make that one time or monthly contribution. And then also at WallBuilders.show, if you want to catch up on the radio program from the last few weeks, you might've missed Rick Green here with David and Tim Barton and our special guest today, John Graves with us from A Million Voices and guys, of course, we missed a D-Day over the hadn't had a chance to talk about it last week, but certainly a day we should not only be recognizing, but reminding people of the sacrifices that have been made so we could even be talking on a radio program today. 

David Barton [00:00:46] Yeah, absolutely. And it is a, it's a big day. Uh, you know, Trump did a good job recognizing it and we're in the middle now of doing another book on the American story and this one's World War two and so we're on, on the final stages of editing that, getting ready to send the printers before long, but just going back through some, but it's going to be fun. 

Tim Barton [00:01:07] I would like to add that this comment about being on the final stages, that's I feel like, you know, when you're in church and the pastor is like, okay, my closing point and you're like, that's the 18th time you've said that, right? The pastor takes off his watch, puts it in his pocket, and you just going, oh my gosh, this is going to be a long one, right. That's how it feels a little bit. We were teasing. I think we were telling people like November, December, hey, this is gonna be at the beginning of the year. And the more that we have researched to footnote things, the more things we have and, dad, it really is gonna be interesting when it comes out because there's gonna be so many things are gonna be exposed just like we can say with Columbus you know all the way up the pilgrims in Jamestown Washington Jefferson. So many noted people that the way their stories have been told in a lot of ways have fundamentally been incorrect It's interesting that some of the narratives even surrounding things from World War two whether it be from Pearl Harbor to the internment of the Japanese to The atomic bombs or the European theater or even things like D-Day There's so much more to that story than what's been told There's a lot that's been left out and there's some things that have been totaled in correctly So it really will be fascinating when this comes out. But with that being said, I'm giving the caveat for all the listeners. We've been saying for six months, this thing is about to be done. We're in the final, the final edits right now, the final stages, please join us in prayer that this really is the final stages. I am so anxious to have this thing ready and done and out, but to the best of our knowledge, we now like light it into the tunnel. We think we don't think it's like a train moving. We think it is light into the tunnel and we're almost there. But certainly one of the big things that,  Dad, that you have spent a lot of time researching and writing on is things surrounding D-Day. And there is so, again, so much more to the story than what most Americans know. 

David Barton [00:03:06] You're right Tim. I mean this thing we thought it's gonna come out long time ago I keep digging around and keep finding bigger diamonds and the question is which diamond do you take out to replace it with a bigger? Diamond or do you just put more diamonds in and there's a lot of stuff that's gonna be a lot of fun So just kind of going back over D-Day, you have to, to get D-day right, you gotta back up about 18 months before D- day. 18 months D- Day, the very first group of Americans that landed in Europe and North Africa to fight the Nazis was Patton. There were three groups that landed, but Patton's only all American group. He got in and nobody knew exactly what he's gonna do. He's a young general at that point. He has not led in combat as a general. This is his first combat as the general. And he gets in and absolutely kicks tail in three days. His objective is over and done. He's taken that part in North Africa. The other two teams that come in it takes them four months and they can't get it done. And finally Eisenhower says George you go try and George went and in a matter of weeks had the whole thing knocked out took all North Africa moves over into Sicily just mopped up Sicily embarrassed that the British he was moving so fast and taking so much ground goes up in Italy. And it's now real clear to the Germans that this is the best American general we have. This guy is kicking their tail. Rommel was their best tank general and Rommell head up against Patton. Patton just nailed him, just whipped him. And so now it's really clear to the Germans the best general we've got is Patton, keep your eye on Patton wherever he goes, that's our next problem. And so they take Patton out of the theater, they move him over to England and have him start building up the forces for D-Day. So Germany sees Patton over in England. He's doing all these forces for D-Day and it bothers them. So they get Rommel out and, and Rommell, Hitler tells Rommal, go, go just fix the French coast so he can't land there. And he put 400 miles of defenses there, 5 million landmines. They had water mines out to stop ships coming in. They put artillery machine guns all along 400 miles. And so Patton is getting ready to come from Dover, England over to Calais, France. The Germans know that they move a whole lot of their forces up to get ready for Patton. As it turns out, Patton was a complete fake. We knew that they were watching him and the landing happened about 200 miles away. It was not even close to where the Germans thought because they're watching Patton. So when D-Day comes ashore, which was last, I guess, Friday, now, I know it was Friday or I guess it was Saturday, wasn't it? So D-Day! On Saturday was the commemoration of that. 160,000 Allied troops landed. 7,000 boats brought those troops ashore, landed on five beaches. The Americans had Omaha Beach and Utah Beach and Omaha was by far the deadliest beach of all of them. And the good news was it would have been a whole lot worse if Patton's fake had not drawn so many Germans away from there. So when you get to Omaha Beach, there were about 2,500 casualties there that day. Compare that to Utah, which is the other American beach. And there was only 197 casualties. So Omaha was really a rough area and they intended to do D-Day a month earlier. But then they thought, you know, if we don't get some paratroopers landing way behind the beaches, then when the Germans come rushing forward, they'll pin us on the beach and we can't get there. And so they took 23,000 paratrooper. They trained them for the mission that put them the mission off a month. But now they're landing the paratroopers as they land the troops on the beach. That way the paratroopers can keep the Germans pushed back from rushing to the beach and that'll protect the guys on the Beach. And the weather really turned bad in that month, that month of training. So when it comes time to land, it is really rough for the ships. They don't think they can get it done. It is so bad that Germans don't think it's going to happen. And that's when Eisenhower says, pull the trigger, let's do this. So they start coming ashore on those beaches. And it was brutal on the time, but it's interesting what happened. This was obviously a top secret mission. We tricked the Germans. We had everybody tricked. And the Americans did not find out about it until Franklin Roosevelt announced it. And when he announced it, he said, hey, we have this big operation going. Let's stop and pray. And the president led the nation in prayer for six minutes. That's how Americans found out about D-Day, was the president lead a six minute prayer. So they've been landing for a while. Now the prayer is going for them. And it's interesting, we had a thousand bombers in the air trying to protect those troops on the beaches. And it was complete radio silence because we didn't want the Germans knowing we were there. And even they broke the radio silence to pray for the troops as they were watching them land 7,000 boats below them. 

Tim Barton [00:07:44] And it is also worth noting that people can go on YouTube right now, they can search for FDR's D-Day Prayer and you actually can listen, that was recorded. You can listen to his voice leading the nation in that prayer. Which is a super cool thing to do, to go back and review and hear that. And actually there's some videos that have been done where they have actual World War II footage, things from D-Day. So as you're hearing the prayer, you actually can see real footage from D-day as it's unfolding, but, but that's something we would definitely encourage everybody when you have a chance, go to YouTube, look for FDR D- day prayer and just take six, six and a half, seven minutes and listen to it, it's really power. 

David Barton [00:08:20] So they have the landing going, there's prayer going forward, and it's interesting. They landed 160,000 troops. It grew to two million within two weeks. That's how many troops were put ashore. And so the other thing that's interesting about that is that prayer, that D-Day prayer, in Congress they stopped, and as the landing was happening in Congress, House and Senate, they recited the 23rd Psalm, and they recitated the Lord's Prayer together. School stopped and had prayer in classrooms. Stores closed early so their employees could go home and pray. The New York and the Chicago stock exchanges even stopped for prayer. For two days, churches were open and they were praying across the nation. So that's the background of D-Day, and that is the beginning of the fall of the Germans. D-day is what broke their back, and essentially we just don't lose after D- day. That changed the whole complexion. But Patton was key and that prayer time was absolutely essential for what happened with D-Day. So that's a little look back at D-day from this weekend. 

Rick Green [00:09:21] Yeah, great way to remember D-Day, and of course, you know, I always throw out Lincoln's Gettysburg Address, we have an increased devotion to the cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion. So anytime we honor those who paid such an incredible price, it's a good reminder for us to do more to honor their sacrifice by actually protecting the cause, the American exceptionalism, the value system and the Constitution and the Declaration. And of course, John Graves does an incredible job with that over at A Million Voices. We love teaming up with With John, he's going to be with us when we come back from the break. So stay with us, folks. You're listening to the WallBuilder Show. 

Rick Green [00:10:59] Welcome back to the WallBuilder show our friend John Graves with us from a million voices and John we know you've been watching this Do we call it an? UFC MMA Smackdown and the octagon with Elon and Trump or do we do we need to reframe that? That's probably not the best way to set this up off 

John Graves [00:11:18] You know, that's that's one way to set it up that with the big UFC fight that was this weekend, but another way to Set it up is politics is war with no blood and we're talking about D-Day, right? It's this blows up between Elon and Trump on the 5th of June and D-day is the 6th of June. And I was heavy that day. I don't I know a lot of people were confused or think, they're just working on chess, but it was a true schism like, you know, the Apostle Paul and Mark got into the Bible. So the Bible... Shows us that these kind of things happen and these guys are in the middle of a war and there's there's huge conflicts that happen with these people and they both have sacrificed one of them you know almost lost his life got shot in the head within millimeters of dying and Elon has put his whole business his whole life his whole credibility he's lost over a hundred billion dollars and and everybody's like well Elon's talking about the debt Trump's talking about the bill and it's like here's here's the truth guys is as believers Elon's stance is principled. Trump's stance is practical based on the reality of what we have in Congress right now. You know, Elon's like Trump used to be. He's running a business. He's used to making a decision and fixing things. And that's why he's built these massive, the largest companies in the world. Trump has to deal with a tiny, tiny, tiny margin. The house passed this bill by one vote and so the Senate's now gonna make massive changes. I don't even know if this bill's gonna get passed. It's literally on the precipice. So talking about D-Day, Rick, to me is very similar because if something goes wrong in D-day or you didn't have the paratroopers or you did it earlier, this thing can blow up. And this Elon Trump fight, if you will, war has the potential to blow up in such a way that there could be a bloodbath next year in the midterms and it could be devastating. So we need to think through this and pray through this. 

Tim Barton [00:13:26] Well, John, one of the things too that I think is so interesting about the conflict is that I think they're both right. That, I mean, ultimately, Elon looked at the bill and he's like, you guys aren't even being serious about this. Look at all this ridiculous spending you've left in, which is correct. But I think Trump, and I love the way you pointed out that, you know, there's principle and there's pragmatism, and Trump being very pragmatic going, hey, we recognize, I don't think Trump is ignorant of the bloat and what is there, but I think he's also understanding of the reality. Mike Johnson, just an example, Speaker of the House, we've known Mike for years and years and we think he is an incredible guy and he's gotten a lot of criticism and maybe some of it justifiable, but, I think a lot of it is just the reality of him trying to herd the cats and people are frustrated that right, I mean, these aren't like geese flying in unison. And, and I think Trump is looking at that going, hey, look at what we're getting done. This is beautiful. And I think both of them are correct, which is why this fallout is maybe even more disappointing

John Graves [00:14:32] It is because the the beauty of them coming together is you got the richest man in the world and the most powerful man in the world and when they're coming together you for good to save the country focused on the country good things can happen and so you know here's another way to say it Elon is is fighting for the world the way it ought to be get out of debt, debt is bondage. He's even calling it bondage! Which is a biblical principle based in Proverbs that the borrower, servant, or slave to the lender. He is focused on that, and that is a good thing. But Trump passed this bill in the House by one vote. One vote, 215 to 214, there was no margin. And they barely got that done by one boat. Now, the Senate doesn't agree with that, and it's got to come back. And so it cuts 1.7 trillion. Elon's right and here's here's honestly my biggest silver lining in this whole deal guys. It's it's a nightmare if Elon goes off and starts a third party and does the Ross Perot thing. If you're old enough to remember how Ross Perrot took 20% of the votes, you know away from the kind of libertarian conservative center, right and gave us Bill Clinton twice, but the silver lining is he also woke people up to the problems because he was a passionate successful businessman. And two years after that bad decision of 1992, it was in 1994 that 54 house members. So my prayer and my focus is that Elon focuses in laser on the house to give us a whole lot more margin than one margin of victory. And if we get 54 housemembers next year, Ross Perot woke people up about the debt, about jobs going overseas. About opening the border. All of those warnings have now come to pass, but there's a silver lining if we can turn this right. 

Tim Barton [00:16:31] And it's also worth noting you have guys like Chip Rory, who's already pointed out that of that majority vote, there's already several of those members who voted in favor of what they thought the bill was doing. They didn't realize that some of the cuts actually were as drastic as they were, and they look back now and said they regretted their vote because they didn't realized like these electric vehicle subsidies, whatever else, they were giving those away. And so the idea that... Whatever happens in the Senate if it changes and comes back to the house It's gonna be even harder in the house when you already have people saying that they wouldn't vote for it again, which again is where I think President Trump even though Elon was right President Trump understanding the pragmatic reality he's navigating, you have to take the step you can take, not the step that you want to take, but the step you have to take. And right, ultimately, if you're trying to cross the river and you're like, I wish I could just take one giant step and be there. Yes, that would be amazing. But if you had to take a tiny step at a time on these river rocks to get across, well, you got to start the journey. And I think this bill is helping start the journey. Again, I mean, going back to the reality, I think they're both right. Elon was right. Trump was right, but if we had to go back and do this again, I think it's even harder to get as much good as there already is in this bill based on who we have in the house. 

David Barton [00:17:51] I'd point out this this 215 to 214 vote that John as you said a one-vote margin it wasn't like it was 215 conservatives you had a bunch of guys from New York and a bunch a liberal Republicans and that was as conservative as they could get it to get the 215 votes they needed there's a whole lot more like Chip Roy and the Freedom Caucus and Josh Brekeen and Eric Burleson all those guys that want to see a big change but that was that was as conservative they can get it and still get 215 votes to pass anything. Because passing nothing is not an option on this. They've gotta get something done. So it's, yeah, I mean, it's a process thing and it's incrementalism for sure. 

Rick Green [00:18:30] We just can't forget the the human element here right and I apologize to all of our flashpoint viewers that also listen to WallBuilders we talked about this Friday night at the live event in Bedford, but You know, John, you said it, you know, it's the most powerful guy, the richest guy. These are human beings that that that are at the highest level of competition their whole life, they're used to winning and they're used to exactly as you said, Elon is used to getting results. And if he doesn't get results, he changes the team up in order to get those results. And so for him, it has been a wake up call into what we all know. I mean, the four of us are used to this, right? We've been in the political process for three decades. We know it's a tough, tough process and that you never get everything you want. And you got to do incrementalism and all those things. And Elon put his life on hold like you said it costing billions of dollars. It's it's his reputation. I mean he he roll the dice bet on the fact that he could make a difference and he did like he brought attention to all of these things that we've all been wanting people to pay attention to and he just it's hard for him to stomach the the the making of the sausage we joke about that all the time right legislation's making sausage and this is hard for him to deal with and and then Trump it feels like a betrayal so you've got the personality side of this and we've got to pray for that to be healed and I know they're both like the fawns. They're gonna have to say I'm...ssssss Sorry, right it's gonna be hard for them to do that but let's pray that that happens because John to your point If if Elon really does go forward with this third party idea, it would be horrible for the whole thing. Let's hope we can get what you just described which is the wake-up call without the disaster of a third party and and if we could channel it 

John Graves [00:20:04] That's what we have to pray. 

Rick Green [00:20:05] Yeah, what you were saying is right. We could get you get some huge victories but man, we got to pray for some wisdom and discernment and some some some of the team coming back together here 

John Graves [00:20:15] Let, let me give our audience something to pray for. There were 68 house seats out of the 435 house seats that were the experts deemed to be competitive, which means they were within the margin of error. They could go either way. And as I, as this happened on the fifth, um, a few days ago, I was so heavy because I do think I, I feel both of them passionately. I'm sacrificing with them no, nowhere near the extent either one of them are. But I own technology companies, I own software companies, I know how to build companies and don't put up with things, fire people, hire people, build things, make it happen. That's where Elon's coming from. This is wrong, guys, we can't live with this debt. And yet I also serve a nonprofit, Million Voices, where I understand how complicated politics is. It's taken me a long time to figure that out. And so, you know, Elon's new to this, right? Trump. Who had this struggle in his first term. He's much smarter in his second term with getting things done and being practical. And like David pointed out, you've got to bring along, not everybody is the freedom caucus. There's a lot of these people that they had to give salt deduction increases and all this stuff just to get their vote because otherwise they're not going to keep their job. So what my prayer after several days of praying about this, I thought, wait a minute, the danger. Is the Ross Perot effect, where 20% of people like us that are passionate about stop the debt, stop the waste, stop the fraud, stop that bloat, stop the pork, stop all the open board, all this stuff, we can only do one step at a time. Politics is the art of the possible. And yet, what we can pray for is, God, help Elon see. And I pray that somebody gets even this interview to him, or we can say, listen, you are right. But the powerful thing that Ross Perot did was the next year, even after he lost that presidential election, he mobilized 168 house races. The Republicans swept 54, first time since the 40s, the war we've just been talking about, since the forties that the Republicans held it. And they held it for 12 years with a huge margin. Well, if we had a huge margin in the Senate races, in the House races, we could come back with a much bigger, beautiful bill that stops the debt. 

Tim Barton [00:22:39] Well, John, one of the ironies a little bit of this too is when people look at Bill Clinton, he's often painted as a very good economic president, but they don't, they don't understand the politics behind it, that the Republicans had a super majority of the house in the Senate, that they had a veto proof majority, so he couldn't stop anything they did, but he was a brilliant enough politician that when they were doing things, it was working well, he was taking credit because he was going, hey, I'm signing these, this is the stuff I'm doing. He was a great politician. I mean not an honest person in a lot of ways 

John Graves [00:23:09] Contract with America Newt Gingrich Tom delay they forced him. It was the last time we had a balanced budget So the very thing Elon wants is a balanced. Budget can happen if he helps us flip 50 to 100 seats 

Tim Barton [00:23:22] Yes, but but I want to put this caveat because if he does listen or read this transcript, right however it gets to him I'm believing he will we we would encourage right the the the problem is ross perot Gave us bill clinton and and we don't need Elon Musk to give us Hillary Clinton, we don't need Elon Musk to give us Kamala or AOC or whoever, Gavin Newsom, whoever they're going to run, even if we get a super majority, because you can prevent a lot of the nonsense, you can get things done, but ultimately, it would be far better having a guy like a J.D. Vance and the House and the Senate, or whoever that might be, whether it's a Ron DeSantis, we can go down the list, but I'm saying that because Ross Perot was so principled in his own mind of what he was doing. He said, I don't care if we lose. I don't care what it costs us. I'm standing up on principle. And it cost us the presidency for eight years. Even though we had the House and the Senate, we prevented some of what Bill Clinton was doing, we didn't stop all of what was doing and we also didn't get everything done that could have been done. And so best case scenario. Is Elon Musk mobilizes Americans to get involved in the House and Senate without putting them against the presidency of a J.D. Vance or Ron DeSantis, whoever else, that actually would come in again with some of those principles. And if they had a House and senate, I have no doubt that a J D. Vance or Ron DeSantis would say, guys, balance the budget. What are we doing? This is crazy. If they had the votes to do it, they would do it. That's it. You need a stronger House and Senate. And I'm saying this because, John, I'm believing with you. This can totally get to Elon, but the wisdom, the strategy is that even though you need to have the principles of Ron Paul be willing to stand, be wiser than Ron Paul was, and don't be so determined to stand on principle that it costs us the presidency, and you don't care because you stood, quote unquote, on your principles. No, be wise, stand for your principles, but know where there's the greatest advantage and the greatest opportunity for advancement and where it can make the greatest difference. 

Rick Green [00:25:24] And do good math, right? Because you need a few Ron Paul types out there that are staking out the ground based on principle so that everybody can strive for that. But then you couldn't have 435 like that or you would never pass a bill, right. So it's also just like, Elon's just such an important figure in this whole thing. Like I'm like you, John, I was grieving. It was like, it hurt to know how much damage this could potentially do. John, thank you so much for coming on today, man. Million Voices give us the website and ways people can get plugged in as we're closing out. 

John Graves [00:25:52] Millionvoices.org you can check us out there or just you know that that's probably the easiest way to do it you can text vote to 80550 if you're driving and don't want to look up a website but millionvoises.org should do it. 

Tim Barton [00:26:05] And Rick, let me jump in too real quick because John is somebody that we interview lots and lots and lots of people. John is someone that I think helps us on everything we do from working with teachers to pastors, state legislators. There's not much we do that John doesn't help us with on some level. And I'm saying that because there's not many people I would more confidently say that this is some of the best ground you can sow into, that investment you can make. Definitely support Million Voices and their efforts because what John is doing is making a difference all over the nation. 

Rick Green [00:26:39] Millionvoices.org. John Graves, our special guest today. Thanks so much for joining us. You've been listening to The WallBuilders Show.