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Oklahoma's Bold Move to Reclaim Republican Government- with Senator David Bullard
WallBuilders Teachers Conference
Senator David Bullard of Oklahoma delivers a masterclass in constitutional governance with his groundbreaking reform of the state's initiative petition process. Having identified how progressive groups exploit ballot initiatives to liberalize conservative states, Bullard crafted Senate Bill 1027 to restore republican principles and strengthen pro-life protections.
The ballot initiative system, a Progressive Era remnant that creates direct democracy within states, has become the preferred weapon for liberal organizations seeking to bypass conservative legislatures. As Bullard explains, outside money and professional signature gatherers have previously succeeded in Oklahoma with measures for medical marijuana and Medicaid expansion. Now, they're targeting abortion rights.
Bullard's reform requires remarkable transparency and genuine grassroots support for any initiative. Petitions must use Oklahoma volunteers and Oklahoma money only. Critically, signatures must come from at least 20 counties rather than just Oklahoma City and Tulsa, preventing the 2.5% of counties from dictating policy to the other 97.5%. The bill ensures that truly statewide issues have statewide support.
Drawing from his background as an AP history teacher, Bullard articulates why this matters fundamentally to our system of government. Citing Article 4, Section 4 of the Constitution, he reminds us that America guarantees each state a republican form of government—not a democracy. The Founding Fathers "despised democracy," preferring representative government where elected officials make laws on citizens' behalf.
What makes this reform particularly impactful is the progressive reaction. Their fierce opposition to gathering signatures beyond urban centers reveals their strategy: using coastal money and urban voters to force policy changes on conservative states. As Bullard notes, "If they really want to know the truth, I would completely remove the initiative petition process."
This legislation presents a model for conservative states nationwide facing similar progressive tactics. By requiring initiatives to demonstrate broader geographic support and relying on in-state resources, states can better preserve their values against well-funded outside influences determined to reshape state policy through direct democracy—a concept our founders rejected.
How will you help preserve republican government in your state? Consider supporting candidates who understand these constitutional distinctions and recognize the progressive playbook targeting conservative strongholds.
Rick Green [00:00:07] Welcome to the Intersection of Faith and Culture. It's the WallBuilders Show, taking on the hot topics of the day from a biblical, historical, and constitutional perspective. Sure appreciate you joining us today. Make sure you visit us online at wallbuilders.com and wallbuilder.show. The .show is for all of the radio programming. You can catch up on any shows you might have missed over the last few weeks and please share them with your friends and family. Really important to be a force multiplier out there and spread the good news. That's wallbuilders.show and then wallbuilders.com. Is where you can get all of our resources, learn about all the different programs coming up throughout the summer and into the fall, and also make that one time or monthly contribution come alongside us and let's do everything we can during this year of the 250th to spread the good news and restore the foundations. I'm Rick Green here with David Barton and Tim Barton later in the program. Senator David Bullard will be with us from Oklahoma. Some great victories up in Oklahoma, as well as in Texas and Arkansas and all across the fruited plain. We've got a lot of good news to share from various pieces of legislation, but we'll talk to Senator Bullard about what's been happening up there in Oklahoma.
David Barton [00:01:06] Man, Rick, I thought you homeschooled your kids and now find out you're a public school grad. You didn't even get the geography right. Look, the good news is not from Texas and Arkansas and Oklahoma, it's from Texas and North Texas and Northeast Texas. It's real simple. It's okay. Yeah, all right, we're from Texas. We have an attitude problem, I understand. But this is good coming out of Oklahoma and David Bullard, such a good guy. He's a Senator up there, very conservative. He ran for leadership this election. Did not make it. I think he missed it by one vote being in leadership and Oklahoma is one of those interesting states. It's kind of like Wyoming and Montana, North Dakota, South Dakota, very conservative state, but the legislature is not necessarily very conservative. And we talked even I think week, week and a half ago how that the Supreme Court of Oklahoma not conservative at all. The attorney general does not appear to be conservative at, even though they're Republican. So what happened was in those stage to get elected, you got to run as a Republican. So you appear to be conservative, even though you may literally be a Democrat in values. This is the only way you're gonna get elected in those states. And so David Bullock didn't win the leadership race. He came within one vote, but he's from a true conservative constitutional side. And so, I mean, I saw something he did in the news I thought was so good. Where they went in to reform the initiative process up there so that you can't have outsiders coming to start running all these initiatives in your state trying to make you more liberal. Take a conservative state and try to turn it blue. That's how they've done so many of these marijuana initiatives, so many of the voting initiatives like the rank choice voting in Maine and Alaska. It's outside groups that come in, put the money up, put the front up and do it. And they flood the state with advertising money, misrepresent what it's all about. And they get these liberal policies as a result. So David Bullard did some really, really good stuff up there to prevent it and to make sure that it reflects the state values, not outsider values, trying to be pushed on the state with money and outside help. So I thought it'd be a great thing to talk about. Hopefully some other states will pick this up and do it as well. A lot of states have that I&R process, initiative and referendum, and it has been used particularly over the last several decades, to liberalize states through I&R. It's not where the real core values of that state are, but with outside pressure and money, it has really taken down a lot of solid policy. So David's gonna be fun to interview, really good guy.
Rick Green [00:03:44] Tim Barton has a chance to visit with Senator David Bullard when we return on the Wallbuilder show.
Tim Barton [00:04:52] Welcome back to the WallBuilder show. This is Tim Barton and I am joined now by a special guest, a state Senator, David Bullard from Oklahoma. Senator, thanks for being with us today.
Senator David Bullard [00:05:03] Yeah, I know, it's my pleasure. I love getting a chance to talk about all of these events going on in our country.
Tim Barton [00:05:09] There is a lot happening right now, and now that we are at the end of what it at the end of the legislative session for most states, we are able to look back and kind of evaluate and see a lot of what's happened. Of course, some states are still wrapping up. Some states go a little longer. Texas has wrapped up Arkansas. Several of your neighboring states have wrapped up and Senator as you know, as a Texan, it's a little hard to talk about how good something has happened in Oklahoma as we get a little jealous and we want to be the best. But you came up with a really brilliant idea that actually has now been signed into law by Governor Stitt there in Oklahoma. It's Senate Bill 1027, and it actually is helping strengthen the pro-life legislation in your state, which already Oklahoma is one of the leaders in the pro life movement. But you found a way to make it even stronger. Will you explain to our listeners what you were able to do with your Senate bill?
Senator David Bullard [00:06:09] Be happy to, you know, we, we in Oklahoma, our state was a constitution was written in 1907 and unfortunately at the same time, there was something called the progressive movement happening right about the same and they snuck into our constitution, this concept of initiative petition, which is a direct democracy. And so we have spent a lot of our time trying to educate members in the Oklahoma legislature and a lot our citizens, to be honest with you, that we are not a democracy. Matter of fact, if you read the words of the founders, they will tell you very handily, we, they despise the idea of a democracy, we are a constitutional republic and I believe, that this initiative petition process is actually a violation of article four, section four of the U S constitution, but we can get into that later if we want. And so what we've run into is the liberals playbook on how they liberalize the states. And they've really moved from a national scene into trying to take over states. And they're going after the reddest of the red states as we speak. And so we've gotten medical marijuana. We've gotten Medicaid expansion to 138% of the poverty rate. We've got so-called criminal justice reform, which is anything, but they're trying to sneak in blanket primary. Some people call them open primaries. It's not. And they were trying to speak in a pro-choice abortion, anytime, anywhere by anyone. We know their playbook and because we, the people of Oklahoma are conservative and they elect conservatives into the legislature, they know that we're not going to pass anything that's pro-choice. So their next job is to go, have an end round around the legislature through that direct democracy process. So what we've done in 1027 is we put guard rails up against it. So for example, the gist, where they have to tell that's how they get people to do the signature process. The gist has to be honest. Imagine that what a novel idea that they would have to tell you what they're actually trying to do, they have to say, what's going to cost, they have to, tell you all the things about it. If they don't, the secretary of state can just toss it out. They have use Oklahoma volunteers and Oklahoma registered voters. They have, use Oklahoma money. Imagine that they can't take outside money.
Tim Barton [00:08:21] Now, Senator, let me stop you for a second, because as you're saying that, it seems so profoundly common sense to say if there's going to be something that becomes law in Oklahoma, it should be done by Oklahomans. And yet the fact that you had to say, no, no. We're not allowing outside people to come and do all these petitions and all these ballots and money and whatever else goes on. It seems to indicate that that has been a strategy of some on the left. To say, let's just take money from outside the state and let's work to turn a really red state into a different color, a purple state, a blue state, by not encouraging or like winning a philosophical discussion or debate with the people of Oklahoma, not changing their mind as much as influencing them with outside dollars. And so this helps prevent some of that.
Senator David Bullard [00:09:16] Well, that's correct. And I've always been able to tell when I've hit the liberal nerve, because that's when they start squealing the loudest and their heads start spinning around and around and spinning out pea soup. We know what these people are like. This is their plan of, of, as you said it really well, this is how they liberalize red states. And they go in through the outside process of a direct democracy, which is directly rooted. The genesis of all this is in the progressive movement. So we know the purpose of this. And they use this process to come in outside and go around the legislature because they, and they've told us this, um, they, they have screamed probably the loudest that they can't use outside money and that they can't, use, uh, outside professionals to come into here and get those signatures. Well, if you want to pass a law that Oklahomans have to live by, and are going to have to pay for, and are, are going have to live under, then you better be using Oklahomance to go gather those signatures and you better be using Oklahoma money. To get those things done. And so George Soros is, is part of that. And, and we know lots of those billionaires and that are out there that they seem to complain about all the time. Those are the ones trying to push in this liberal agenda in Oklahoma. It's common sense approach and it's just fundamental there's nothing devious about this. And the other side of it is, right now, if they want to get the one of these through, they just have to go to Oklahoma city in Tulsa. I, all I did was require them to go to about 20 different counties to go get those signatures and they have screamed their heads off, you're taking our freedoms away, but they don't mind ignoring us out here in the rural areas. And it's because the rural parts are conservative.
Tim Barton [00:10:57] And let me let me unpack that bag for a minute for everybody listening. So when when you're talking about avoiding a direct democracy, as you rightly point out, the Founding Fathers were against. And maybe it's worth pointing out to people that you are a former AP history teacher, right? I mean, you taught American history, government, like you got into this. And even earlier in the conversation, when you are citing specific articles in the Constitution, that just warms my heart to hear somebody say that. But what what liberals have done, is there's only so many signatures needed for some of these ballot initiatives to happen and when they go to that there's a couple really big cities and they're very liberal in Oklahoma that as you mentioned Oklahoma City and Tulsa and if they're able to go and one of the other things that the progressive left has done a very good job of is they do a very good job at framing so instead of saying like we're pro-abortion they say we're pro-women's rights and so when you can control and manipulate with language and you can influence a mass in a mob. In one area that's already has a bent towards you and and then you're able to get votes from Oklahoma City and you're able to do something that impacts the whole state even though you wouldn't necessarily be able to give the whole State on board, what you've done is said that if you're gonna do something impacts the whole state You can't collect all your signatures from just Oklahoma City in Tulsa You have to get signatures that support this as you mentioned from like 20 counties, maybe all together and so from ok- and just for me from my reading and correct me if I'm reading this incorrectly is for my reading of the bill only like 10 percent of the the names on this ballot petition can come from Oklahoma City only 10 can come from Tulsa that they have to go to multiple places to be able to get more more names and signatures on this Ballot Initiative petition and that's where you're making sure that they're they're covering more of the state than just going to a mob in one of the major cities.
Senator David Bullard [00:12:55] So we made a slight change to that from the standard, the part of it you're reading. It's 11.5% of the signatures of the registered voters who voted in the last movement or election. So that, you know, they kept us trying to use this Westbury v. Sanders, one man, one vote, uh, it does not apply to signature gathering, but we said, okay, fine, we'll do it that way. So it's 11 point five is 20.8%. If you're going to put it into the constitution, 11. Five, if you're gonna amend the statute. And they're getting smart about how they do these things. So for example, you brought up a pro-life measure earlier. They're not trying to put that in statute because they know that the legislature will go in and immediately take out if they put in a pro abortion law within our statute. They know that we have been sent there with a mandate to protect life and that there's a constitutional right to life, liberty and the pursuit of property. They know, that so they're gonna try and put it into constitution where we can't go in and do the will of the people in that way. And so the danger lies in that they sell people and they twist words and they tell you, oh, this is about women's healthcare. If abortion is women's health care, then slavery was human services within a company. You know, that's not the way that that works. And we have been sent there with a mandate not to tinker with abortion, not to just fiddle with abortion. But in Oklahoma, I had a very clear mandate for my people to end abortion in Oklahoma. And so they're trying to end run to us, but if they can get it to a ballot, they can go spend 20, 30, $40 million to get it switched. And we've seen that in other States. And so what we're working on is to make sure that if you're going to run that process through, you're gonna talk to more than more Oklahomans around the state right now. Uh, just to give you an example, they only have to talk to 2.5% of the counties, they can ignore 97.5%. Of Oklahoma in order to get something on the ballot, I'm just pushing them out to 20 counties, but I'll tell you how revealing it is they're out there screaming right now that I'm taking away their direct democracy because there's no way for them to get these things through the ballot if they have to go talk to more Oklahomans. So they're, they're telling you what they're up to and they're telling you, what their problem is.
Tim Barton [00:15:10] That is so incredibly telling that when your Senate bill takes it from just talking to 2.5% of the counties, which is ultimately looking at Oklahoma City, Tulsa, right? The major cities that are very liberal. When you're saying talk to 20% of state and if you get 20% the state, then it absolutely makes sense. Do this ballot initiative. Let's vote on it. And the fact, as you mentioned, that they're flipping out and squealing, you know, the old adage was you, you throw a rock into a pack of dogs and the one that yelps is the one they got hit. Well, you can tell you got something on this because there's some yelping going on. And all you did was encourage that they talked to more people in the state. This wasn't saying that you're not allowed to do any of the initiatives or you're not stopping their freedom of speech or expression. You're not stopping the process. You're saying talk to more Oklahomans, which actually makes total sense, but also... The reason this is considered such a strong pro-life measure is because you know, we know, that the vast majority of the people of Oklahoma are not gonna support some of these very pro-abortion, pro-death of unborn children policies that some of the left, the Planned Parenthoods, whoever else would wanna promote. And so what you did is make sure it goes back to more people in the state. So more people on the state, from a a wider area or having a voice in this, and that's making a difference.
Senator David Bullard [00:16:35] Yeah. And, and I'll give you an example. If they, if they really want to know the honest truth, I would go back into the constitution and completely remove the initiative petition process. And they, they squeal loud that, you're taking away your democracy. And I said, no, I'm not. I would love to, but I'm. I would to restore it. And one of the big lines on the floor, I had one of the senators, the Democrat senators say, uh, in your, in your road to, uh destroy democracy. How do you anticipate this happening? And I said, I'm not destroying democracy. I'm restoring a Republic. And I would love to do this and keep in mind, there's only 26 states that have this, there are 24 states that don't have an initiative petition process. So none of those states have lost democracy. None of those States have lost their freedom of speech. None of the matter of fact, the States that are losing their democracy, that they're losing their democratic concepts found in the Constitution are the ones that have this direct democracy process in. The ones that don't have to deal with this and have to elect people, they're the ones right now that their freedoms are more safeguarded now than ever. And I don't know, I love the competition between Texas and Oklahoma. You know, I've run the gold and silver bill for years now. And my number one goal is to make sure that I beat Texas to the punch on this one. But if memory serves me correct, Texas doesn't have this process that y'all have to do with this job. And go through this mess and Texas is better off for it because this is how they turned the country blue.
Tim Barton [00:18:05] Yeah, and we certainly have ballot measures in Texas, but you're right. It's a very different process. And this is not dissimilar to even the first amendment where the first amendment says that you can petition Congress for redress your grievances. But that's you going through your elected official, which is the Republican process. That you elect those officials, they represent you, you can talk to them about getting legislation done for you. And Senator, I know that this is exactly how you would do this very thing. If people came to you and said, Senator, this is our idea. Would you please draft something? Would you work on this? That's how you come up with some of those ideas is talking to your constituents. And that's part of what you're talking about restoring and we could spend more time, but I want to save some time because I know my dad and Rick probably have some thoughts on the backside of our conversation but we are so greatful for you using your creativity and understanding of the Constitution of, as you mentioned, it's not that you're against a democracy it's you're in favor of Republic. You are working to restore the Republican ideals in Oklahoma. And in this case, it also helps restore some of those pro-life positions in Oklahoma, Senator, thank you so much for your work and all you've been doing.
Senator David Bullard [00:19:12] Yeah, you know, it's my pleasure. And if we think for a second that liberals are going to give this country up without a fight, you are not thinking straight and you are not paying attention to history and what's happened in the past. So we're going to have to be smart. We're going have to creative, but we're gonna have to be bold to stand up for this Republic.
Tim Barton [00:19:31] That's it. It's time to roll up our sleeves and get to work. Senator, thank you so much.
Senator David Bullard [00:19:35] My pleasure.
Tim Barton [00:19:35] Everybody else, we'll be back in just a moment with David Barton and Rick Green.
Rick Green [00:20:45] Welcome back to the WallBuilders Show. Thanks for staying with us, Tim. Thanks for having that opportunity to visit with Senator Bullard. You know, we had him what four or five months ago, I guess they were just starting their session. And so he was projecting, you know, hoping to get a lot of this stuff done. So it's great to get some positive reports.
David Barton [00:20:59] Man, they did get a bunch of great stuff done, but I just really appreciate the fact that he so readily right off the bat immediately quoted the Constitution that you guaranteed every state a Republican form of government. And the I&R process is not a Republican form of Government. That's a Democratic form of Governor. Founding fathers, as David pointed out, they hated democracies. They put that, I think they actually put that down below monarchies and below a lot of the. The single leadership kind of, you know, imperialistic nations over there. They said that of all the forms of government, democracy is the absolute worst. They called it a mobocracy. And so I think David just immediately going to the constitution to quote that on maintaining a Republican form of government and then talking about the founders on that. That is such a well-informed position and is so good. And you know if you're gonna do something in Oklahoma, we've talked about this before. You have so many conservative folks in New York state, but why does that matter when you have New York City that represents about 65% of the vote and they cram everything else down everybody else's throat or Chicago does that in Illinois? What do you do with all the southern Illinois farmers and farmlands and conservative folks in southern Illinois that get very little representation because Chicago just runs over them? And the same in so many places, Michigan with Detroit and California with LA and San Francisco. Or so. He's he's moving in the right direction of giving everybody a representative voice and as Tim is Tim brought out I mean you're you're talking the way it had been 2.5 percent of the state could tell the other 97.5 what to do and that's just not the right right way in any Republican form of government
Tim Barton [00:22:46] And you know, guys, it's interesting that Oklahoma, I mentioned one of the most conservative states, one of most pro-life states in the nation. And Governor Stitt, of course, said that any single piece of pro-live legislation that came to his desk, he would sign it. And not that there's not drama, not that they're not challenges in Oklahoma. Some of our friends there would tell us that they are not able to get everything done. They want to. There's some pushback. There's infighting. Look, that's politics. We get it. That happens. There's different strategies. There's different agendas But when at times you have to navigate what you can do to make your laws even better or stronger or protect inalienable rights to an even higher level, when you see, okay, well, what is a tactic and strategy being used to undermine our inalientable rights? To come against the unborn. And when you say, wait a second, this is all coming from Tulsa and Oklahoma, and they're able to do these ballot measures and that doesn't even make sense. The majority of the state. Doesn't support it, but then because sometimes the wording of these ballot measures, people don't always know what they are, what they're for and then there's so much out-of-state money coming in to fund these that's influencing and impacting the outcome of these. It really was a brilliant idea to say, look, if we're going to do something that's going to impact the whole state, I'd include more of the state in the process. And the reason it came up with this strategy wasn't just to, to slow down a specific movement. It wasn't just to. Say, we want to make sure more of the states involved in the initial process. It was strategically saying, what can we do to make sure that we are doing an even better job of protecting unborn children and preserving unborn life, which is just incredible. And of course we applaud Senator Bullard for that strategy and that move.
David Barton [00:24:34] You know, I was really kind of, I guess I hadn't associated it, but I hadn't t thought about the fact he pointed out that INR came in with progressive movement. So that was an issue that progressives put in more than a century ago, and that it's in nearly half the states as he pointed it out now. But it definitely has been the means by which those states have been liberalized. They've just taken so many in the wrong direction. In so many states, we were surprised at the outcome of that. But when you can pour that money in and Tim, as you pointed out, not everybody knows or reads what's on the initiative and what it means and the thinking process behind it. You can just do those soundbites on social media and get people to vote for something. This is just, to me, such a healthy, healthy thing. And I hope a bunch of other states pick it up and move with it and go in that right direction. Because this really is a progressive tool by which you undermine Constitutional Republics, which, you know, we're fighting to preserve them. At the state level, including at the federal level.
Rick Green [00:25:33] Now such good stuff. And, and of course we, the only way to make these things continue to happen is to keep sowing seed, keep sown seed, watering that seed. So folks, there's lots you can be doing between now and the two 50th get plugged in, go to wallbuilders.com today, get you some good resources, get people over to your house or talking about these things, you just never know what that issue is going to be that comes up in the next few months or later next year, and you want people to be trained on that and I want to encourage people if you've got pastors that are listening right now, in fact, speak boldly. On Sunday mornings. Come to one of our Liberty Pastors trainings. We're gonna be doing three or four of those throughout the year and getting people together. Come to on of our pastors briefings in D.C. And get to do the tour and hang out with David and Tim. Meet a lot of members of Congress. There's just so many opportunities to get plugged in. And personally wanna invite you to a Liberty Pastor's event. And just the next couple of weeks is gonna happen at the Patriot Academy campus. Go to libertypastors.org and check that out. Libertypastor.org. It's practically free for you and your spouse. As a pastor, 99 bucks. And you get three days at our amazing campus. You get to hear from Pastor Paul Blair and a lot of other folks. So check that out today and come join us in a couple of weeks. That's at LibertyPastors.org. Wallbuilders.show and Wallbuilder.com. Those are the two websites you can check out to learn more about us here at WallBuilders. Appreciate you listening to the WallBuilder Show.
