The WallBuilders Show
The WallBuilders Show is a daily journey to examine today's issues from a Biblical, Historical and Constitutional perspective. Featured guests include elected officials, experts, activists, authors, and commentators.
The WallBuilders Show
When Faith and Science Meet: ICR's Quest for Truth in a Skeptical World- with Dr. Tim Clary
Standing at the crossroads of tradition and innovation, our hosts share their diverse July 4th experiences across America, from witnessing spectacular fireworks displays in St. Louis to launching their own celebratory explosives via grenade launcher. Their playful banter about "what the founding fathers intended" sets the tone for an episode that balances patriotic enthusiasm with thoughtful reflections on community, science, and faith.
In a significant announcement, we learn about the birth of Constitution City, Texas – launched symbolically on July 4th. This isn't merely a conceptual community but a legitimate municipality in formation through Texas' legal framework. With 177.6 acres (cleverly referencing 1776) and future addresses like "1776 Patriot Way," the city represents a practical application of constitutional principles and restoration of property rights. The timing of this announcement proves particularly meaningful against the backdrop of devastating flooding in Texas' Hill Country, demonstrating how constitutional values translate to community service during crisis.
The conversation takes a fascinating turn when Dr. Tim Clarey from the Institute for Creation Research joins to discuss an extraordinary opportunity for listeners – participating in a real dinosaur dig in Montana's Hell Creek Formation. Open to all ages and experience levels, this August expedition promises participants the thrill of uncovering fossils buried for thousands of years while learning about creation science. Dr. Clarey also highlights ICR's upcoming commemorative event on the 100th anniversary of the Scopes Trial, suggesting that recent skepticism toward "expert" narratives during COVID has created fresh openness to questioning mainstream scientific claims about Earth's age.
Throughout the episode, practical wisdom emerges on how listeners can genuinely help disaster victims, support creation science education, and engage with both constitutional principles and scientific inquiry from a biblical perspective. The Discovery Center museum in Dallas offers families and students resources to explore evidence supporting young Earth creation science – providing intellectual ammunition against challenges to faith that many young people encounter in academic settings.
Ready to dig into creation science yourself? Visit icr.org to join the Montana expedition or explore their museum resources. Want to support Texas flood victims? Consider donating to Mercury One or Patriot Academy's flood fund.
Rick Green [00:00:07] Welcome to the WallBuilders Show, the intersection of faith and culture. Thanks for joining us today. Rick Green here with David Barton and Tim Barton. We're talking, taking on the hot topics of the day from a biblical, historical, and constitutional perspective. Got a lot of great interviews coming up this week. And you of course want to tune in Thursday for foundations of freedom Thursday and Friday for some good news later in the program today Tim Clary is going to be with us. We'll be talking about a really cool dinosaur dig going on. And lots of other fun stuff. David, Tim, what a weekend. July 4th, we talked about last Friday, we were gonna be spread out all over the country, doing fireworks and July 4 celebrations. What was it? Let's see, we had Missouri, Texas, and was it Arkansas? We had those three states covered, right?
David Barton [00:00:46] That was it. I got to tell you, Missouri is not what I thought being in St. Louis, cause that's that had, you know, that had one of those source prosecutors for a long time, got rid of her, but it's still, that's, that's a blue part of Missouri. And I was absolutely shocked. Well, the 4th of July stuff was going on because about every, around the hotel and convention center where I would stand, just about every home was sitting off fireworks. And I mean, they were sitting off big fireworks. And here I am in the land of freedom in Texas, my County. I can't hardly have fireworks in my entire County. We're rural County, or we used to be anyway. I can get into my house and I was just sitting there at the window, looking out the window seeing the best fireworks show I have seen in a long time. It's like a hundred houses all had fireworks going off and it was a lot of fun.
Speaker 3 [00:01:33] But David, that's the show me state. They were showing you. That's what it was.
David Barton [00:01:37] They did, they showed me and I never expected that coming out of St. Louis, but I tell you, it was great to watch so many and what I love was so many people wanted to celebrate. And I mean, they were really taking advantage of it. And it was just, it, was real refreshing to see average common people saying, hey, I'm going to celebrate and do what I can. Man, if I'd been up in an airplane or a helicopter, I think it would have been awesome. The whole city seemed to be lit up from what I was seeing, but it was fun in Sint Louis
Tim Barton [00:02:05] Now in fairness, if you only saw the fireworks going off, you don't know if they were average common people or not. It could have been the rednecks driving in from their truck, shooting off fireworks. I'm just saying, right? Like you saw the explosions and maybe the reason it happens in big cities is Democrats are just used to, you know, those loud bang noises happening in some of their crime-ridden areas. So fire, you,
David Barton [00:02:27] Tim, if you only knew brother, if you only know when you said rednecks driving in firing off their fireworks at the campus last Thursday night before the big fireworks show, I'm not kidding you, we had a grenade launcher and we were shooting fireworks out of the grenade launcher. It doesn't get any more redneck than that.
Tim Barton [00:02:43] And that, you know, is what the Founding Fathers intended.
Rick Green [00:02:47] That's right.
Tim Barton [00:02:47] This is the way they wanted us to celebrate freedom. This is what it was all about.
David Barton [00:02:52] This is why we have the Second Amendment, guys. This is the whole business thing. Well, maybe not.
David Barton [00:02:58] And it's funny you said what you said David about you know even in Texas in your rural county and in the regulations and the things you can't do and everything we we launched officially last Friday on July 4th constitution city Texas for that that was one of the main reasons was regulation and overregulation and having our own city allows us to curb some of that and restore property rights
David Barton [00:03:19] Now wait a minute Rick, it sounds like you got a David Koresh compound sit up here. So explain, explain the fact that in Texas, how it works in Texas to set up a legitimate city. This is not a breakaway city. I mean, this is a legitimate city.
David Barton [00:03:34] That's right. We're literally and really, honestly, it's, you know, but God's providence at the timing was also the same day of the flooding in the Hill Country all around us, neighbors 10 minutes away that just completely wiped out.
David Barton [00:03:46] Wow.
Rick Green [00:03:46] And so doing the city of Constitution City has reminded us how important community is and how to be good neighbors. And it's going to give us the the infrastructure to be able to do that and put in place a lot of the the programs and the and the departments that we can then go serve these areas, because we found over the weekend and searching, doing some of the search and rescue stuff and just. Working with a lot of the first responders from around the country that descended upon the hill country and they're still at it. I mean, even as we're recording this, out looking for some of the missing folks and the kids from those camps. It's just been heartbreaking guys, but like all of these tragedies that we've seen in North Carolina and other places, the American people just shine in these moments. They just step up. The church is stepping up, people all over helping. And that's the kind of city Constitution City is gonna be.
David Barton [00:04:30] Yeah, but go back and explain that it's a legitimate legal process, right? You didn't just buy a cow pasture and set something up.
David Barton [00:04:37] Right.
David Barton [00:04:37] I mean, you're going to have the services and the fire trucks and everything else as part of the city.
David Barton [00:04:42] That's right. And it's also important to point out, David, it's not going to be like what those folks in the Muslim community in Dallas are trying to do, where they're trying to get around the Constitution and state law to do Sharia law. And what we're trying do is restore the Constitution, and uphold state law. So in Texas, it is pretty cool. There's about five different types of cities you can form, and this one's one of the small ones. We're only, get this, 177.6 acres. So I'll let that sit for a minute. 177.6 acres, 1776, get it guys, come on. Okay, anyway, so we're a small, but you had to be less than two square miles to be a type C municipality in Texas. And that's what we'll be. And just over 200 inhabitants, that sort of thing. So there's some statutory requirements. And then exactly as you said, we'll have a mayor and commissioners and we'll do our own law enforcement and fire and you know all of all of those things and it's gonna we're in an unincorporated area So it allows us then to do interlocal agreements with the county fire and and all of the other groups in the in the county so it's a really good blessing for Kendall County in the hill country area and gonna be great for us at Patriot County because guys guess what our address is gonna be 1776 Patriot Way Constitution City, Texas come on building Independence Hall on that address. You gotta love it
Tim Barton [00:05:58] It's absolutely incredible. Guys, one of the things also worth noting as, as probably everybody around the nation, has seen posts about the flooding, we have already mentioned it a little bit, there's been so much prayer, one of the, the cool things in the midst of a significant issue and tragedy, like what has happened. But one of positive things governor Abbott issued a prayer proclamation calling on Sunday to be a day of prayer. And in the era of the restoration of some basic foundational things, what President Trump has done. We've been talking about a long time where we've seen some really positive things happening in a lot of ways in the nation. We've talked for decades about the faith foundation of the nation and how what Governor Abbott did on, calling on Sunday to be an official day in Texas for prayer for those that were lost and missing and whatever else. Like this is. Exactly what the founding fathers did when there were things going on Whatever that situation was and whatever looked like whether it was the revolution whether it was a drought it was flood whatever it was i mean the pilgrims that the very first day of prayer and fasting on a record in american history to speak of where there is a a governor calling on all the people of that colony well it was governor bradford it was 1623 there was a drought going on and so they had a day of praying fasting asking god to send the rain This is the kind of legacy and tradition that's been rich in our nation instead of see governor Abbott say everybody on Sunday Let's in the midst of all the religious services that he already knew was going on He said let's make sure we're asking God to intervene and of course people all around the nation have been praying On behalf of those victims from from this flooding that this terrible tragedy in Texas but it was great to see again a governor do this and in the middle of a a recent couple of weeks where we've seen the ACLU come out suing Texas for wanting to put the Ten Commandments up, suing texas for wanting to have a time where teachers and students have a quiet time where they actually can pray or read their Bible in classroom in Arkansas, the ACLUs still in Arkansas for trying to put The Ten Commandment up in schools. We've seen a lot of hostility toward religion, but to see governors still show courage times and recognize that there is a God. And we need God's help in some of these really significant and tragic moments. It was really encouraging to see Governor Abbott do that.
David Barton [00:08:28] Yeah, there's been so many people coming in and I do want to address that very quickly because a lot of people are calling and asking because they know we're right here, you know, where this has happened. Um, this is not, I'm, some people may disagree with me on this, but I'm gonna say this is the time to get in your truck and come down to the hill country and volunteer where we are inundated to the point of it being a problem for, for the first responders. So, you, we've been through this 10 years ago with our Wimberley floods seven years ago with Harvey and all those things. So we kind of knew when to hold back and when to be there for first responders. And so anyway, for people that wanna help right now, the best thing you can do is pray for the first responders and for the families, the best you can if you wanna help, get ready to help because we're gonna be rebuilding homes and doing things for weeks and months to come. And so I've just, you know, people have been asking us, can we come down there and stay? Can we come there and help? Not yet, not yet. And they've been asking where to give. And so we're right here by these people. We're saying right now, if you want to give either give to Mercury one or give to Patriot Academy and we're setting up a flood fund and we'll redirect that to people that all the money will get, we'll go to them. But it's just one of those situations guys. It really has been impressive how many people have come in, but man, these first responders are incredible. I, I am normally not, um, you know, uh, normally I'm just like, let's, let's get the neighbors together and go. There have been so many first responders come in from all over the place that they, that have had the training. And we're even, as part of Constitution City, this has inspired us to create the training for search and rescue so that in the future, we can provide people, you know, more people with these teams. So it's been impressive, but for all those people that are calling and asking, just hold your fire. I felt like Mel Gibson in Braveheart with the blue paint on going, hold, hold hold because now is not the time to fire right now is pray and and be prepared to come and help when we when we make the call.
Tim Barton [00:10:15] Rick, as you mentioned, there really are a lot of great organizations and teams that are down there already doing this. Again, just to reiterate your point, one of the things for people that follow social media stuff, you have a huge high level special force veteran community down. In that Austin surrounding area and there's a lot of them that have brought out some of their teams and said hey let's go down and help and so you have some of the the best trained individuals yeah um you have national guard people coming in rescue swimmers uh i mean again really high level people and then as you mentioned organizations like mercury one that are are working with people that are on the ground partners on the ground that are helping bring in pallets of water and food
Rick Green [00:10:58] that have done this dozens and dozens of times, right? Like they're not going in and learning how to do this. And the sheriff just today actually said, I'm sorry, yesterday there were two points that proved this. Number one, they had a big rain and a damned bust and so part of the river was gonna swell again. And they had all the first responders connected, but they couldn't get ahold of all the volunteers to tell them to get out of that area when that happened. And then the second thing, we're out there, we were with the sheriff's department, I'm Sorry, the fire chiefs. Group they they'd asked us to provide some drones for them so we were down doing drones and spotting drones and helping with search and rescue in that way and And and suddenly the rumor went all over town that two girls to the girls have been found in a tree 27 feet up 72 hours later and and it was verified by the newspapers and the news outlets so everybody started repeating it including me well Then the sheriff has to hold a press conference and say guys that did not happen and so it's just to your point Tim There's some really good professionals. And if you have one of them saying, come help me with this, like they did asking us with the drones, then do it. But if not, man, right now just kind of stay out of the way and be ready to help. We're gonna be mucking houses and rebuilding houses for months to come.
David Barton [00:12:07] And let me add to that. This is not to discourage you next time there's a disaster.
Rick Green [00:12:10] That's right.
David Barton [00:12:11] Just say, Oh, I'm going to let the professionals do it.
Rick Green [00:12:14] Good point, David.
David Barton [00:12:15] It is just in this particular setting, in this disaster.
Rick Green [00:12:19] That's right.
David Barton [00:12:20] And this one right here, this one, we got the guys on the ground, the need, but let your heart be always. I want to go help. I'm going to, I'm gonna go help my people, wherever it is. Yes. Great point. This is a no way to discourage that instinct. It's just that right now, this, this was taken care of. You can give definitely give though. That's There, there's a lot to be done. And as Rick, as you just missed all the rebuilding everything else. So definitely give.
David Barton [00:12:44] Well, guys, we do have an interview today. We're actually talking about speaking of we've been digging around in the river the last few days, they're digging around in the dirt for a dinosaur. I mean, this is about as cool as it gets. And we're going to learn about a great way for people to be able to teach their family about creation and also to get actually get hands in. There's a great opportunity to go, be a part of this dig. Tim Clary is our guest from Institute for Creation Research. Stay with us folks. We'll be right back on the Wobbler show.
Rick Green [00:14:20] Welcome back to The WallBuilders Show. Thanks for staying with us. We are excited to tell you about a cool dinosaur dig and plus you need to know about the Institute for Creation Research anyway, so Dr. Tim Clary is with us, Dr. Clary, thanks for joining us today, man.
Dr. Tim Clary [00:14:32] It's great to be here.
Rick Green [00:14:34] So you guys, I didn't know you had a big dig going out in, were you in Montana? I forget where it is now. Watch the video.
Dr. Tim Clary [00:14:40] Well, it's out in eastern Montana near a town called Glendive, so you're almost in North Dakota, but it's in the Hell Creek Formation, which is famous for its T-Rexes and other so-called cretaceous dinosaurs that were buried at that level in the flood. We did this last year too, but I didn't go last year, but ICR did it, and this is the second year we're doing this. We still need, I think, two people to fill two more spots to fill it out, but it's going to be a good time.
Rick Green [00:15:06] How long will this go? Like how long will you be in the dirtor is that the unknown because you're
Dr. Tim Clary [00:15:11] Well, actually, I think the program goes from the August 13th to August 16th of this year. And so there's several days of digging, there's some talks to kind of get people ready and a few things to give you some background information. But a lot of it's, you know, you get out there and dig and the temperatures could be 90 degrees, 100 degrees, but it's a little dry heat, as they say, at that time of year. But it's not bad. It's a good time. I mean, you'll get a chance to find some bones, I mean everybody's going to find some bones. So.
Rick Green [00:15:40] Nice, nice. ICR.org, your best place to go and sign up and find out about the schedule and everything.
Dr. Tim Clary [00:15:46] Yep, yep, I would go to icr.org. Even before that, we actually have a, some of us are going out to Chattanooga, Tennessee. We're doing a scopes trial thing in Chattenooga, Tennessee, August 6th through the 10th. So just before that I'll be in Chatenooga with some of our science staff going over the 100th anniversary of the whole, you know, the monkey trial, as they say.
Rick Green [00:16:07] Oh wait, we got to come back to that, but let me wrap on the dig first, just to make sure everybody understands. So this is a chance, because what I saw in the video, I mean, it's people of all ages. You had young ones out there, people my age, so I mean you had people out there that for them it's a chance to, even if they've never done anything, right? You don't have to have any experience in this.
Dr. Tim Clary [00:16:28] No, not at all. They'll teach you what to do. They give you the tools to do it. I mean, you just kind of show up, you know, in your little field gear, where that's the sunscreen and they provide the, you know, all the resources of water, you know, lunches, everything, I believe. And so they'll take care of good, good care of you. I've done many digs, you know, but this is going to be my first time to dig with ICR. It's going to, it's going to be a fun experience with learning for everybody from, you know, age, young age is all the way up to a hundred years old. So it's like. We can, it's not, you know, you're not really working too physically hard, but you're having a great time because you're finding bones that had been buried there for thousands of years and you're the first person to see them.
Rick Green [00:17:07] Wow, very cool. Very cool. OK, so now let's fast forward to and again, folks, if you want to sign up for that ICR.org is the website ICR.org. You were saying that you guys are actually going out there. Is it is it going to be almost like a recreation of the trial? What are you going to do?
Dr. Tim Clary [00:17:23] Well, no, we're just going to talk about it a lot, you know, there's going to be talks, different people are coming out speaking, there are going to some legal people talking about the legal ramifications of the Sculpt's trial in Chattanooga, and we're going to be at a church, I think, out there. That's also on our website, iscr.org, you can look up the 100 years of monkey business it's called, basically. And so we're gonna give a lot of talk, so we are gonna push back against, you know, they complained about the geology in my field. They complained that the geology showed the rocks are old, but the rocks don't to show how old they are, rocks are interpreted to be old, and even the radioactive dating is an interpretation, because you can't go back in time and actually verify these things. So there's a lot of things we're going to push back on. In my field, I'm going to put back on the geology of what was said at the trial. They basically convinced people the Earth is old, you know, they kind of made that sound, because at that point, scientists were starting to push that agenda. And so the Earth was becoming billions of years old. And of course now the mainstream science claims it's 4.5 billion years old and all these rocks are hundreds of millions of years old, but when you look at the evidence, the evidence stacks up that the earth is young, the rocks are young. There was a global flood that produced most of our sediments filled with fossils all over the earth.
Rick Green [00:18:35] I'm wondering if there's not just a really great opportunity right now for people to revisit this subject because of, with COVID and the last four years and how much the supposed experts lied to us and, and got everything wrong. And, you know, because you're right. It's like, everybody just, just bought the lie. And so they've assumed that that quote unquote science was settled, quote unquote, science was solid, all this, you the carbon dating I mean all of that they were everybody was taught that for so many years in school as fact Without any questioning but now there seems to be more of a willingness to say, you know what? Maybe the experts aren't so expert. I need to do my own research and start studying these things Is that kind of what you're feeling as well in terms of an open opportunity here?
Dr. Tim Clary [00:19:21] I think so. I thought that same thing, and I talked to some audiences about that. I think people are more skeptical now. They realize that science has been saying this and this and this and with the whole COVID thing, they're realizing maybe science got it wrong. Maybe they're not telling us the whole story or telling us even the truth. And so I think there's a lot more people out there that are kind of hungry for, okay, what is the truth? And we go back to, you know, we stand at the Bible as truth, but science is a way to confirm the Bible. So I think that there's lot more because the skepticism that was brought on by COVID where we realized we were lied to, you know, do masks or no masks and all this has opened an opportunity for people to really question what they've been taught.
Rick Green [00:20:00] And all we're asking really is for them to, like you said, question and research and do the study and what an opportunity. And I think a lot of our listeners may not be aware, they can come to the museum anytime, come to a tour, do some homework right there. And for not just people in the DFW area, you can fly in, you're right in between Lovefield and, DFW, so people can fly in and, go visit the museum. Is that a, you guys, do you, do kind of recommend that as a one day thing, is that a several day thing? How, what, what do y'all recommend there?
Dr. Tim Clary [00:20:30] Well, I think it's pretty much a one day thing. You can you could probably do the whole thing thoroughly in several hours, three hours, maybe in a planetarium show as well thrown in there. So it's and it's really affordable compared to a lot of museums out there that, you know, we keep the prices as low as we possibly can. So a lot people, it's maybe a half day thing where you could come in. We're open, I thing, 10 to five. If you're a member, if you sign up for an annual membership, you get a little earlier. But it's it's a one-day thing at the most. I would say that not to not a two day thing, but It's really spectacular because it does show there's a lot of science that supports the young earth, a lot science that support the Bible, and that there really was a flood and all these catastrophes like Mount St. Helens, you really bring that into light. And so there's lot of really interesting things to see in our Discovery Center here at ICR. So if you look up icr.org again, as you mentioned, look at the Discovery Center. It's open Tuesday through Saturday most days, occasionally some holidays as well. And so just check the website.
Rick Green [00:21:28] Icr.org, icr.org, and for those that can't necessarily travel in, you guys have curriculum and kids books and all kinds of great stuff for people to get a hold of as well just to begin that education at home and you know, that whole be ready to answer thing, we haven't done that well and I'm so thankful for y'all and what you're doing and the helping to get people ready to answering and for us to raise our kids to be able to know these things that we lose so many kids to you know from the faith because we don't equip them for these questions and this especially in this area and they go up college and they're made to feel like fools because they don't have this information so what a great opportunity to get equipped icr.org
Dr. Tim Clary [00:22:07] That's how a lot of our science staff, we all went to the public schools. We heard all the millions of years, billions of years. We heard of all the evolution, but we had resources from Henry Morris, our founder, and other people that work for ICR and other Christian creationist organizations. They kind of kept us knowing that there's another side to the story here of not being told. And that's one of the biggest things. They teach you one thing only. They don't teach, they'll say like, here's these two layers you can see like in grand canyon that are separated by 160 million years. You could put your hand on both, isn't that cool? But nobody asks, why is there no erosion between those layers? Why aren't there river valleys and gullies and stuff that's been sitting around for 160 million years? Those kinds of things aren't asked in the classroom setting. They're just, you just talk, talk, you know, accept, accept. But as we mentioned, the skepticism now amongst the general public, I think, is getting people to ask a few more questions and getting people think about things, not just accept things, what they're told.
Rick Green [00:23:04] Which is healthy, healthy, healthy, and hopefully we get a lot more of it. Dr. Clark, God bless you guys. I know you've got a busy, busy year for the second half of the year. A lot of things coming up. So appreciate you taking the time to come in, tell folks about it. ICR.org. And let's get you back again. Dr. Tim Clary, appreciate you brother.
Dr. Tim Clary [00:23:20] Thank you so much. It's been a real pleasure.
Rick Green [00:23:22] Stay with us folks, we'll be right back with David and Tim Barton. Welcome back to The WallBuilders Show. Thanks for staying with us. Thanks to Tim Clary and the Institute for Creation Research. We'll have a link at our website where you can sign up and go be a part of that dig or just go visit the museum. They're right here in Texas, guys.
Tim Barton [00:24:42] Actually, it's a mile from where we are right now. My dad and I are doing a teachers' conference over at the American Journey Experience, actually, with Mercury One, who we talked about early on, how they're helping work within the teams and some of this flooding disaster relief effort that's going on. But, I mean, guys, if you're going to do a dinosaur dig, already super cool to be in Montana, where it's absolutely beautiful and you're doing it at a time when it's really hot in Texas. That seems like a no brainer. It's a great time to go to Montana. Look for dinosaurs, right? Be part of that team. And as you mentioned, they have an incredible museum here. And we know as we study history that there's a lot of stories that are told, historically speaking, that are not historically correct. It's not grounded in original source documentation. And one of the amazing things they do, like we've tried to do, is they go back and say, Look, a lot of people are saying this about science, they're saying this about creation, they're thinking this about evolution, but let's just go through some of the science, let's look and see what's actually there, and they do a brilliant job at their museum where you can come and go through, they have so many brilliant people there, these scientists that are actually there. They give lectures, they give tours, it's worth going through, because it does give such good ammunition to rebut some of nonsense, but again, the opportunity to sign up and go. To Montana to look for dinosaurs? Montana's a place my dad and I love. I don't know what our schedule looks like, but we're probably gonna look at it because that'd be pretty amazing to join up and be part of this dig.
Rick Green [00:26:15] Especially like you said, when it's 110 in Texas. So what, what an opportunity. Well, lots of news, that we didn't get to that we'll get to, uh throughout the week, talk about Elon's third party potential and, and some of the other things that are happening. And to David, you were talking about the legitimacy of the city. I forgot to mention, we aren't a city yet. We, it goes on the ballot now that we have enough people here and we did our declaration of independence on July 4th, and then it'll be on the ballot in November, but we're working towards that. Thanks so much for listening today, folks. You've been listening to the WallBuilders Show.
