Overcoming Evil with Good: Lessons from Charlie Kirk's Legacy

The assassination of Charlie Kirk has left many reeling, searching for meaning amidst tragedy. In this deeply moving episode, we navigate the complex emotions of grief while offering a distinctly Christian perspective on death and legacy.

We begin by examining what Scripture teaches about mourning with hope. Unlike those without faith, believers can find comfort knowing death is merely a doorway to eternal life. As Tim Barton notes, "Charlie is living his best life right now." This doesn't diminish our loss, but it transforms how we process it. We explore the fascinating parallel between Jesus standing to welcome the martyr Stephen in Acts and how Christ might similarly welcome modern martyrs.

But how should we respond to such evil? The temptation toward anger and retaliation is strong, yet we're called to something higher. David Barton challenges listeners to "overcome evil with good" by doubling down on Charlie's approach – confronting dangerous ideologies while showing genuine love to the confused individuals influenced by them. This balanced approach requires both courage and compassion.

We also celebrate recent victories for religious liberty, including Liberty Council's continued legal success defending Good News Clubs in public schools nationwide. These constitutionally-protected after-school programs allow teachers to share the gospel with students, providing much-needed moral foundation. Additionally, we discuss President Trump's announcement of new Department of Education guidelines protecting prayer in public schools and his strong defense of the foundational American principle that rights come from God, not government.

The episode concludes with Abraham Lincoln's timeless challenge from the Gettysburg Address – to take "increased devotion to the cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion." In honoring Charlie's legacy, we're called not to civil war, but to civil discourse; not to hatred, but to renewed commitment to truth spoken in love.

Chapters

• 0:00 Good News in Tragedy
• 5:29 Finding Hope in Christian Faith
• 8:48 Confronting Evil with Love
• 14:37 Legacy of Civil Discourse
• 19:38 Religious Liberty in Schools
• 22:52 Truth vs Transgender Ideology

Transcript

Rick Green [00:00:07] Welcome to The WallBuilders Show where the intersection of faith and culture and we take on the hot topics of the day from a biblical, historical, and constitutional perspective. It's Good News Friday and guys, I need some good news today. I don't know a lot of other people out there to do as well. And of course, all of our programming available at wallbuilders.show for previous programs over the last few weeks and months. And yesterday we had a tribute to Charlie Kirk. For those of you that missed that, be sure and go to wallbuilders.show. And check that out, David, Tim, of course, everybody's still reeling today. And, I know a lot of our listeners,  you know, they want us, of course, to stay in the fight and there is a time to mourn, and a time to fight and we're going to get some, some news today of, some of those victories that have happened in the last few weeks and maybe even some of the victories that Charlie had a lot to do with, so looking forward to get into some good news, Tim. Go ahead, man. 

Tim Barton [00:00:58] Yeah, I would say one of the things that certainly we should celebrate. I don't think we spent a lot of time, yesterday, early morning as we were, we're navigating lots of thoughts and emotions, still, you know, things very raw and all of us have talked, to a lot groups, our phones have been blowing up with text messages. We've been checking in on our other friends, that are kind of in these, these same circles that knew Charlie well. And there were several verses that really just struck my mind. One of them, Paul wrote in in 1st Thessalonians chapter 4, that as Christians, we don't mourn like other people in the world mourn. We don't morn as those who have no hope, and the reality is that all of us as believers, we know exactly where Charlie is. We know that Charlie is living his best life right now, and he is not sad for himself at all. You know, we can recognize the loss, and certainly we are sad for Erika, for their family, their kids, everybody surrounding them. But we don't mourn the same way because we know life is temporal. We're just going through. Also in Psalm 116 in verse 15, it says, precious in the sight of the Lord is the death of the saints. And one of the things that I've heard several people point out over the last 24 plus hours, as so many people have been posting, so many conversations have been going on, but with the martyr Stephen in the Book of Acts, We know the Bible tells us that that Jesus Christ is sitting at the right hand of the Father but in the book of Acts when Stephen was being stoned to death he said that he looked up and that Jesus was standing up and one of the things that I've heard again a couple pastors say this I think Jack Hibbs maybe was one of ones I heard say this yesterday was what's interesting kind of in this thought is it was as if Jesus was welcoming in, Stephen, a martyr, even though traditionally like the image is Jesus is sitting and until Revelation comes when He's on white horse returning He's gonna be sitting there the throne on the Right Side of God the Father but he stood up to welcome Steve and the martyr coming in and a lot of people made the parallel that you know this this might be something that when people are martyred for the faith that Jesus, you know, maybe stands up and greets him as they come in and I thought a really interesting Idea and take on on some of what's there In the midst of us still kind of processing the loss, we also know that there is great joy. There is great hope. We know ultimately evil may sting in a moment, but evil will not triumph. That God wins in the end. That those of us that know God, that follow God, death is just opening the door to the place we want to be and this is something that as we're processing this, I would say just remembering as we start Good News Friday that ultimately the good news of the gospel is that even though we are broken, flawed, imperfect people, that a perfect Savior came, He laid His life down that we could be forgiven, that we can be saved, that we could redeemed and restored in relationship with God. All the things that God wants to do and accomplish in us and ultimately, that death is not the end, it's just the beginning. I was reminded of Billy Graham, I think Franklin Graham is the one that shared this, that Billy Graham said it and And then I went to look it up and... There were many people saying, actually DL Moody is the guy that came up with this. And so whether it's Billy Graham, DL, Moody, either way, it's a really famous pastor that said this, that when you hear of my death, don't be deceived. I won't have died. I will be much more alive than I've ever been. My address just will have changed. And with Billy, that was true. With Charlie, that is true and so I would say the first thing is we're going to get into some good news. There are good things. God is on the move. God is still moving. In spite of pain, in spite of evil happening, God is still on the move. But the first piece of good news we should start with is that God is real, Jesus is real. Heaven is real death is temporary. Eternity is forever. And ultimately death is just a door that we pass through to get to the place as believers we really want to be and that's the ultimate piece of Good News that we should start to remember said perspective. Life is temporary. We're just going through and the good news is that heaven is real, God is real, Jesus is real we know the end of the story evil may have its moment. It will not triumph. God will win in the end 

Rick Green [00:05:29] That's the best news we could share on a good news Friday. That is the good news. Good, good word, brother. All right, David, over to you, man. 

David Barton [00:05:38] I'm going to jump on a little bit with that because I want to make sure people don't have an attitude that, okay, this is enough. This is the breaking straw. We've had it. We're not going to put up with this anymore. And we're going to basically have a get your attitude. Bible says you overcome evil with good. If you want to, if you want a really give Charlie a legacy, just take what he's been doing and put it on steroids and go even more positive, go even bigger in that direction. Look we have, we're now from Romans 13, the government has been given the sword of justice. They'll do the justice stuff. We need to take the ideas and spread those ideas even more and not let the hate side get inside us, not let retaliation, not get it eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth, that was the old way, the new way is overcome with love. And so overcome anything, any bad any bad thoughts you've got, get rid of them, overcome them with positive stuff, let the Holy Spirit give you the right kind of ideas and turn that into positive action. That's a good way to give Charlie a great legacy. 

Tim Barton [00:06:34] Well, and data reminds me, we talked about it some over the last couple of days with MLK where when MLK was assassinated, that was something that a lot of people really rallied around. It was actually his death that led to some unity to some extent in Congress that they actually got some civil rights legislation done. But MLK, was the guy who said that hate doesn't drive out hate, right? Only love can do that. If you were any part of the movement. Go back to the Birmingham March, and for people that haven't done this before, I would encourage you look up the Birmingham 10 Commandments for the MLK movement or for the civil rights movement. And when you look at the 10 Commandment, there were 10 pledges, and this is what the commandment thought came from. You're commanded, if you're gonna be part of the movement, there were ten pledges or ten things in the pledge you had to take. And among them was you had to... Live peaceably, you can't go out looking for violence and force. You had to read your Bible daily. You had a try to live and act like Jesus. You had the speak in love. And these were all of the things, dad, kind of to your point that Charlie was really promoting and stood for. And it's as much as we could say, and certainly as Christians, we'd say, look, we shouldn't be following Charlie's example. We should be following Jesus's example, but the apostle Paul did tell people. He said, follow me. As I follow Christ because there is something that is significant about when you have a visual in front of you of somebody who's doing something right you can then say hey do what that person's doing because they're doing the right thing right now and Charlie certainly was the embodiment of that in many ways Again, we talked about it yesterday with some of that tribute but dad to your point There's a lot of people on the left on social media the last couple of days that have been posted a lot of really hateful wicked evil things celebrating the death we've already seen a lot people have been fired from universities from media outlets from businesses because they posted on their social media rejoicing about what happened to Charlie Kirk. So there already is a level of consequence for people that are celebrating evil and and I think dad the one the one thing, and maybe we could have a discussion on this if we need to go down that route, but the one thing that is interesting is even though we are supposed to turn the other cheek and respond in love, that doesn't mean we stand idly by and watch evil run, right, freely. No, you stand up and oppose evil everywhere you can, but what Charlie did so beautifully, and we kind of mentioned this yesterday, Charlie confronted the evil ideology, but he tried to show love to the people he was talking to. Who were confused by the evil ideology. He was very bold and courageous in standing up and saying no to what was wrong, promoting what was good, celebrating what was good, he had the courage to do that, but he still had respect for the individual because he recognized the Christian idea that everybody was made in God's image. And with that being said, he had a security team around him because, He understood that there is a lot of vitriol, there's a lot of hate, and we would argue there's a lot, you know, a lot of this that's very demonic and spiritual in the midst of it. But I'm saying this, the buildup, the reason that the security team around them is Charlie wasn't against using force to stop evil force that is aggressively coming at you, right? If there would have been someone walking up with a gun, his security team, if they would have seen and been able to respond in time, they would have taken out their guns and they would've dispatched the evil person trying to do evil things. And that would be the biblical notion of self-defense, right? So Charlie wasn't against these things. And to say that we should respond in love doesn't mean we sacrifice some of the other biblical truths. Because one of the things that happens in our culture is people often like to take one part of who God is. And pretend like that's the only thing that God is. No, God is a God of love, but he's also a God of justice. He's also God of war. He is also a god of wrath. There's a lot to who God is and, of course, Jesus came and revealed a lot of who God was and people are lost in their culture that they misunderstood. And Jesus even set new standards and definitions. He had a new command I give you. As I love you, so you should love other people. He showed a new standard to do things, but he also said until one jot or one tittle is done away with... We're not removing the old, it is staying in place until it's all been fulfilled. And all of us would agree it hasn't been fulfilled which means that we're doing away with some of the other basic notions of self-defense, et cetera. I'm saying that only as a caveat because as much as we should have the courage and boldness to stand up and speak up. It doesn't mean that we should not be willing to try to stop evil perpetrators while they are doing evil. Sometimes the most Godly thing you can do is aggressively confront evil. If you were one of the people that was on the train when that crazy dude got up and stabbed that Ukrainian refugee, and everybody kind of gets out of the way, and maybe not everybody really knew what happened. I mean, there's a lot we could kind of caveat and talk about, but no, the most Godly thing. If you were someone on the train seeing what happened... The most godly thing to do would have been try to stop that evil from happening. And at times you have to confront lethal force with lethal, lethal force to stop the evil. And I'm only saying that as kind of an, an add on contribution, not a contradiction, but just saying that multiple things can be true at once. We should not be going and looking to be violent. That's not who Charlie was. It's not what he would want us to do. And that's not, what was so effective. What was effective is communicating the truth and as Direct but as loving of a way as possible and and that's what we should be thinking about how can we reach people that are confused with truth and have courage to speak it but do it in love 

David Barton [00:12:22] Yeah, totally agree, Tim. And I would say even in that same direction, I'm reminded of Proverbs 25, I think it's verses 21, 22, where it says, look, if you really wanna keep heap coals of fire on the head of your enemy, you double down with good and good stuff. And that's a great, I mean, take all the things that Charlie was doing because he was not coward, he didn't back away from evil. Tim, you're right, self-defense was all around him. He believed in that, that's biblical. But at the same time for us, It's like, we're not looking for a way to get even with everybody else by hope, hoping bad things come on them. We want to double down, but doing even more good. Take what Charlie was doing, just do even more of that. Get in more conversations, get it and get in more willingness to listen. I mean, even when people went crazy at him, he didn't retaliate kind and kind, he overcame the evil with the good, which is another verse from the Bible and that's something we can all do absolutely. And that doesn't mean we're weak or namby pamby, or don't believe in self-defense in any way, shape, fashion, or form. But just don't get into that hateful mentality that'll eat your soul away because it won't change the circumstances. It will change you and it won't be for the good. So keep that right attitude, keep an internal perspective, keep moving forward, be biblical in all that we do. And that includes the self-defense and it also includes how you address an enemy and how you respond to them when they come after you. Yeah, and you know, guys, I was thinking. 

Rick Green [00:13:38] I usually use Lincoln's Gettysburg Address when referring to military sacrifice and people dying in the military for us, but it certainly fits here that we take an increased devotion. This is how we honor the dead. We take an increase devotion in the cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion. And look, Charlie was devoted to the gospel of Jesus Christ, and he was devoted to a patriotic Biblical citizenship of people living out their freedom and a hundred percent what you said David taking that frustration or anger or whatever it is and Channeling into action to double down on just doing what he was doing civil discourse not civil war civil discourse Don't take the bait of Satan everybody this this this push to get us to hate each other Don't do it instead do exactly what David just said so good guys. It's so good quick break. We'll be right back It's good news Friday on the WallBuilder show 

Rick Green [00:15:39] Thanks for staying with us today on the Wallbillers show and jumping into some of our other good news stories. The good news is the gospel. Of course, we start with today, the good news of the legacy of Charlie Kirk and the attitude that I'm hearing from everybody to say, man, we're going to create a thousand Charlie Kirk's millions of, of others that, uh, you know, love the Lord and, uh are called according to this purpose and are actually learning to articulate those purposes. That's a big part of what we're working on here at wall builder. So David, go ahead, share some good news. 

David Barton [00:16:07] You know, from a sporting perspective, going back to sports, Rick, in your sport that you like so much in baseball, it's amazing to me that you can be a pro and be one of the best in the world and fail three out of four times every time you step to the plate. I mean, if you got a 250 batting average, you're still a real decent pro, which it means you whiffed on three out four. And so you look at stats and there's very few sports where you have something that... I don't know, not only sports, very few areas of life where you hit on something all the time, but one of the ones that continues to amaze me is our friends over at Liberty council on the legal side, uh, for about 20 years, they have not lost a single case and I think they're now into scores of cases. I think it may be a hundred cases or so they have not lost a single on good news clubs and public schools and good news clubs. It's really It's such a cool thing. It goes all the way back to earlier Supreme Court decisions that set this up. But teachers are allowed to evangelize kids at school in good news clubs, share the gospel with them if it's after school hours, but it can be on school grounds and school teachers can lead that. And so they have fought this thing for decades and they continue to win. It's okay for school teachers to do this. It's OK to do it on schoolgrounds. It's ok to do before, after school, et cetera. And so what happened out in California, particularly Oakland area, which is, you know, that Bay kind of area that's so crazy out there, when COVID hit and they just shut clubs down, they let everybody come back except the good news clubs. And they said, no, no we're not having those kinds of clubs, that's unconstitutional, et cetera. Here comes Liberty Council again to the rescue, they're back in court again and they win yet another one. It is just amazing that their hitting rate. So that's really good news to be able to have, I don't know basketball my sport anything else if you're shooting at at a thousand level that's phenomenal and over decades that's even more amazing and given all the different kinds of judges that have been appointed by a whole bunch of different presidents it's still really amazing that these guys have not lost a case yet on this and they now win another one out in California in weird country with a not very good Court of Appeals out there the Ninth Circuit You know here they are again so good news and by the way if you're not aware of this You ought to look at getting good news clubs into your schools. Good news clubs are really good things They share the gospel with the kids They get kids involved in after school activities a lot of fun a lot Of engagement a lot a fellowship a lot Of good stuff good leadership so you might look at that in your public schools They are absolutely constitutional most school attorneys will not be aware of these at all The schools that have them, they're fully aware of it and what the legal stuff is. But the ones that don't have it, it might be new for them. But if you need to go to good news clubs and they will have all the information on how you can get these clubs started at schools around you. They're really good. 

Rick Green [00:19:07] Yeah, it's a big part of you know what we're pushing for throughout the 250th is to get some good stuff back in the schools where there's Bible curriculum 10 Commandments the release time stuff and then hear that the good news club so very good place to put some time and energy Tim how about you man what's your first regular piece of good news today 

Tim Barton [00:19:25] Well, this harkens back to something I think we talked about earlier in the week. Um, I, we were up in DC all week for pastor's briefing. And then with the death of our friend, uh, you know, that it's, it's been a crazy week, but I think talked about it earlier in a week, uh President Trump on Monday, when he was at the museum of the Bible for the religious liberty event, and lots of things happening there. This is an article that highlights it. Dad, I'm pretty sure you talked about this already, but that's an article that gives a few details about it. And part of what Trump said, the department of education will now have new guidelines to protect the right to pray in public school. So reiterating something we already mentioned, but then a quote from president Trump. He said to have a great nation, you have to have religion. And he goes on a little bit about this and what that means. And we know that the commission an article kind of highlights this there were several students that came up and talked one of them was the boy I think was fifth grade was supposed to read to the kindergarten students and the book he was reading just not at all lining up with truth or reality about gender human sexuality expression, etc and when he got up, he said I believe kids like me should be able to live out our faith at school without being forced to go against what we believe. I hope no other family has to go through what mine did, Trump later got up and slammed Senator Tim Kaine for the comments saying that rights don't come from God. Trump said the ineffectual Senator from Virginia, man named Tim Kaine stated that the notion that our rights come from our creator is quote, extremely troubling to him. Trump said, but as everyone in this room understands, it is tyrants who are denying our rights and the rights that come from god. And it's the declaration of independence that proclaims We're endowed by our creator with the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. The Senator from Virginia should be ashamed of himself. Uh, Trump went on and again, Dad, you told us several details of some of what happened in the meeting. We certainly have seen some stuff on social media now, but this is an article, again, highlighting one of the things that we have celebrated and continue to celebrate when you have a president who is encouraging people. To have faith in their life. It's saying that we need kids to have faith in their lives and we need to protect religious liberty and rights don't come from the government. They come from God. These are things that we've been saying for decades and there's now a precedent of the United States echoing the things we've been saying that the founding fathers wrote. It really is incredible. And of course, as you know, we've been talking the last day and a half. About this, this tragedy with the, the murder, the assassination of Charlie Kirk. Obviously what kids are failing to learn in school is the basic morals, the decency found in the Bible, found from the 10 commandments, found from the teachings of Jesus. And so with president Trump saying that we're going to change department of education guidelines for public school to make sure faith has a place in public school, that's absolutely incredible because it will change the trajectory of every one of those students in public school when they know that there is a God our rights come from him and when they begin to learn some of those basic values and standards outlined from the teachings of Jesus and from the ten commandments 

Rick Green [00:22:49] Good stuff good stuff. All right, David. We still got time for some more go for it 

David Barton [00:22:52] You know, it was under the Biden administration that so much took off in the way of the transgender movement. I mean, it's where it really exploded. It really got mainstream and well, mainstream in policy. It was never mainstream in culture. And I love what Tim, I think you just mentioned when we were with the president when he was talking about school prayer. And at that point in time, he was talkin' about, and he actually corrected himself. He says, look, he said, this transgender issue, it an 80-20 issue. And then he paused and said, no, it not. It's a 97-3 issue. And I think that's really pretty much where it was, but under the Biden administration, nobody was really coming out against that kind of movement. And so we've now found pretty much how shallow that movement is. But under the Biden administration, they suppressed a lot of studies that came out and didn't release those government studies on the failure of their approach to work on. And it's interesting too, originally in the transgender movement, they said, look, this is a kind of a mental health crisis. There are confusion issues, mental health issues here, and that's what's at stake, and we've gotta deal with that. And so they started prescribing antidepressants, et cetera, and then they stopped calling it a mental health crisis and said, no, this is normal, this mainstream. And then they get into all these puberty blockers which are gonna help with the mental health crises, and that gonna help with being able to accept your different gender. And now we find out, and they've come out with the stats that were released by the Trump administration, but done back under Biden, that puberty blockers have no impact at all on this issue, because it really is a spiritual issue. It is not a physical issue so much as it is. Look, God, and I guess the best way to say, let me back up to two Bible verses. Deuteronomy 10:13, and Deuteronomy 6:24, God says, everything I tell you to do is for your good, for your benefit that you can have a better life and when you when you cross that boundary of what God says and you start believing things That aren't true. He did make them male and female that's and when You accept that it's a lot more stable because anything he tells you is for your benefit at least that's the belief We have we believe that God's smarter than we are that what he tells us to do if we obeyed It's gonna work for our benefit and that includes every aspect of life your economic life your finance your school life your educational life your job life sexual life, anything else. Bible gives guidance on all those issues. And so it's just striking now that this information is coming out that that whole Biden four-year approach that really blew up that transgender movement and helped mainstream in America was, it suppressed the evidence, statistical evidence that was there. This is not religious evidence. This is actual scientific statistical evidence that what they were doing was actually not working. It is not good. It is helpful for young people who are suffering with. Transgender, dysphoria, anything else. Basic approach to that is facing truth and doing what God says is always the first starting place for that. Just be selfish if you want to. Obey God is for your own benefit. 

Rick Green [00:25:57] That's interesting. Yeah, God's way is the best way so be selfish if you want the best do it God's Way. That's an interesting way to say it 

Tim Barton [00:26:04] Hey, guys, I think the word you're looking for is pragmatic. You do what's in your self-interest. It's not selfish, because you're doing what's not just good for you. It's good for all of society. But pragmatically, it's the best way. 

Rick Green [00:26:16] Yeah, you she little human nature there, you know, we obviously should want what's best for our family and for Posterity and all those things. So anyway good stuff guys. Thanks for for ending the week on some awesome good news Thank you, Tim for setting the tone with the ultimate good news Everybody as you go into the weekend and you're remembering the things that happened this week begin to think about how you can Increase your devotion to the cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion Thanks for listening to the WallBuilders Show.