American Constitution at 239: The Bedrock of Liberty

Have you ever wondered what makes the United States Constitution the most successful governing document in world history? As we celebrate Constitution Day, marking 239 years since its signing, this episode dives deep into the remarkable durability of America's foundational charter.

The secret to the Constitution's unprecedented longevity isn't just clever wording or political genius—it's rooted in something more profound. Through fascinating historical research, we reveal how the Bible influenced the Founders more than any other source, accounting for 34% of their direct quotations—far outpacing Montesquieu, Blackstone, and Locke combined. This biblical foundation provided the moral framework necessary for constitutional self-government to flourish.

We tackle common constitutional misconceptions that threaten our republic today: the myth of three co-equal branches, misinterpretations of the "general welfare" clause, and the imaginary "wall of separation between church and state" that appears nowhere in our founding document. These misunderstandings haven't happened by accident—they represent fundamental shifts away from the Founders' vision of ordered liberty.

Most critically, we explore John Adams' prophetic warning that "Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." The document itself hasn't failed America; rather, the question is whether we still possess the moral character necessary to maintain it. Recent events surrounding Charlie Kirk have sparked renewed interest in constitutional principles, with 54,000 new requests to start educational chapters nationwide.

Whether you're a constitutional scholar or just beginning to explore America's founding principles, this episode will deepen your appreciation for the remarkable document that has secured American liberty for generations—and what we must do to preserve it for centuries to come.

Chapters

• 0:00 Constitution Day Introduction
• 4:13 239 Years of Constitutional Success
• 8:32 Biblical Influences on the Constitution
• 13:14 Morality Required for Freedom
• 16:35 Common Constitutional Misconceptions
• 22:05 Charlie Kirk's Legacy of Faith

Transcript

Rick Green [00:00:07] Welcome to The WallBuilders Show. Thanks for joining us on this Wednesday in which we are going to do a Foundations of Freedom Thursday. Yes, we're doing all of this just to confuse you. No, not really. The calendar is unique this year. Constitution Day falls on Wednesday, today, and we thought, you know, we need to talk about the Constitution, so we're going to swap out and we're gonna do our Foundations of Freedom, Thursday show on Wednesday today, Constitution Day. And then tomorrow, we got a special guest, Pastor Alan Jackson from Tennessee that will be joining us. So David and Tim Barton, I'm Rick Green. This is David and Tom Barton. And guys, we get to talk about the constitution today. I love it. 

David Barton [00:00:41] Can we start with a happy birthday? 238. 

Rick Green [00:00:44] Happy birthday to the, as long as none of us sing. I think that would probably be not good for a ratings. 

David Barton [00:00:49] Yeah, let's, let, let let's do a pantomime, we'll do a silent version of it. 

Tim Barton [00:00:54] That would be really good for our radio program. They would really enjoy. 

Rick Green [00:00:58] If only it were a video podcast. No, it is pretty cool though. This is, you know, David, you were the first one I ever heard talk about the fact that we break the record every year and just how unique it is to have so much success under a constitutional Republic and not have to have a new government every few years and a coup and a, you, know, a civil war and all the things that most, most nations experience. I mean, we're, we are in a pretty good roll. 

David Barton [00:01:19] Yeah, we're in a pretty good roll, even having gone through a civil war and coming out with the same constitution at the end of that, very, very few nations are able to go through a civil and recover and keep their form of government and come back strong in that same form of the government. And that's what America's been able to do. And there is nothing like our constitution anywhere. You know that the closest you get is the hebrew republic and they had the Bible for the constitution so short of that we got that we get the second best slot in the history of the world and for for constitutional republic we are number one and then we missed it before but it's worth mention again the study done by the academics is an average of seventeen to nineteen years for constitution over the last several thousand years of history so here we are not seventeen to ninety were not average were way above average. 238, nobody else has been close to that number. 

Tim Barton [00:02:08] Well, dad, no, it's 239 today. 

David Barton [00:02:12] There you go,. There you go. 

Tim Barton [00:02:13] It was 238 up to this point. And just to keep everybody on track, the Constitution was done in 1787. They finished it on September 17, which then became Constitution Day. And so 1787 is 11 years after 1776. So a lot of people are thinking we're coming up on the 250th, 250 years. Since America declared independence and we separated from Great Britain, ultimately creating our own nation. But really, all of the colonies became independent colonies. We weren't a unified nation yet. That didn't happen until 11 years later with the Constitution of the United States. And of course, we could go through some of the details and point out that in 1777, they drafted the Articles of Confederation, which, they were trying to figure out a way to work together that ended up being not a good system at all, for lots of reasons. It actually wasn't ratified until the 1780s, but as soon as they drafted it in 1777, they were kind of following that as guidance. And because of the brokenness of the system, there were a lot of people that were calling for a new constitution. Everybody from Noah Webster, who did the dictionary, he wrote a lot early education books. But even people like James Madison and noted, noted founding fathers were saying the Articles of Federation are not good, we need something different. And so it was 1787 in a penitentiary. And ultimately, what they concluded was on September 17, which is why it became Constitution Day, because that's when the Constitution was actually done. 

David Barton [00:03:40] So it is a remarkable document and you just kind of wonder how long can it keep going? And I think that all comes back not to how good the document is. I think the document has proven itself to be really, really good. I think question comes back to how the people are, because I think that's the deciding determining factor now on our Constitution. It's not the document itself. It's been through all sorts of stuff. It's now do the people want to keep it and want to use it and what apply it? And I that's biggest challenge we've got on Constitution Day is where the people 

Tim Barton [00:04:10] And, Dad, to that point, when you're saying that the Constitution has kind of proven itself, I think that's where it's unfolding a little bit, because this is also where there's another great study we could point to. There's a book that was done by Donald Wutz. He's a professor at the University of Houston. At least he was. I don't know if he's still there. He was there for, like, ever. Tim, let me re- 

David Barton [00:04:29] Let me interrupt you for just a second, because I think I know where you're going to head. Let me throw out an interesting conversation I just recently had with the guy. Now, for me, in the last two and a half days, I've been in five states, and I don't remember which state this was in, but he came up to me, and we were talking about Charlie Kirk and what happened with Charlie, and of course, we talked about that over the last week as well. But looking at what happened, he said, you know, people are asking me, with the Constitution we've got, we've got this thing where that we have free speech. So why are we arresting those who are or why are firing those who are celebrating Charlie's death? Don't they have a right to free speech? That I don't like it, but people are asking me that none of the constitution and thinking about that. I went back to kind of the original intent, which we talk about frequently, but this is where I go to the John Adams quote that our constitution is made only for moral and religious people. You'll never have enough laws passed to control people's bad behavior if you don't have internal self-restraints. And I think that's kind of headed to where you were headed, Tim, but I've been thinking about that today. We'll never get past this Charlie Kirk stuff if we don't get back to those original atmosphere that those guys wanted the Constitution. 

Tim Barton [00:05:41] Yeah, and I do want to unfold that further. That's my point number two. So let me back up the point number one. So Donald Lutz, a professor from the University of Houston, led a study back in the 1970s. They were getting ready. In 1997, it was the 200th anniversary of the Constitution. And they asked a very simple question, recognizing even at that point, the Constitution has been one of the most stable governing documents in the history of the world. In fact, America, I mean, Rick, as you pointed out, I'd add that you are somebody that has brought this to a lot of people's attention. The Constitution is the most successful governing document, and we are the longest lasting ongoing Constitutional Republic in the history of the world. And if you get on the internet, Wikipedia might say, well, actually, there's this one other nation, and there's a lot of reason that's not really correct. However, not to digress from it, we've enjoyed more stability, more prosperity, more freedom in our nation's history than anywhere else in the world in that same timeframe. And so Donald Lutz said... We want to see where do these ideas come from that have helped America be so strong and stable and all the things that we've enjoyed and he determined that he started this back in the 1970s and again part of the buildup and there were there were a lot of research he was writing a lot at that point here a lot of books that came out dealing with the constitution some of those foundational ideas but as you're building up to again 1987 was a 200th anniversary and he said we I wanna see where did the founding fathers come up with the ideas that led to American independence and what they determined they would do to try to figure this out they said if we go back and read from the founders writings we can from their writings if we find quotation marks we can go look up the people they were quoting we will track all the people they're quoting we'll make a list and then almost like a a excel spreadsheet we will be able to see who were the ones that most quoted and whoever they're quoting the most was probably the greatest influence. We'll track all this and when we see who they quoted, then we'll know the people that were influencing their thinking. And therefore we'll kind of know where the ideas came from that gave us a constitution. The project was originally to go through 15,000 representative writing. They were going to start from 1760, which was going to be a buildup to the American revolution. They were gonna go all the way to 1805, which takes you through the revolution. Through the Constitution, through the Bill of Rights, through the first several presidents. And they said, this is kind of the formation of the nation, period. Let's go back and see where did they come up with their ideas. And as they're going through these 15,000 documents, they finally came to the place they had found the 3,154 quotes. When they got there, they said we have now enough data. We have a really good sample size. We can go evaluate this and make a really good list to know who was really influencing them. Now it's worth noting, it took them about 10 years to come up finding where all those quotes came from because, you know, for back in the day, those of us that remember, before there was an internet, but then now before there is AI technology when you can just ask. Your phone to find something for you and it finds it online amazingly quickly, not always accurate but it will give you an answer quickly. Well, back in the day, if you're trying to find something, if your reading one of the founding fathers writings and you find something in quotation marks and you go, hey, I wonder where this came from, what you would have do is go to the library. You just have to start going through books and read this book and that book and you just have to keep reading until you found that quote. Well, this is what they did again. It was like a 10 year period finding all these quotes. But when they released their findings, it was in a book called The Origins of American Constitutionalism. And from that book, they identify where a lot of these thoughts came from. And it is interesting that even this book, they talked about some of the covenantal aspects of America, the early state constitutions, and ultimately when they build up as going through kind of the foundation of what leads to the Constitution, they point out that when you look at the Constitution that the most significant names that were quoted by the founding fathers, the number one was Charles Montesquieu. He was quoted 8.3% of the quotes a pound from him. William Blackstone, who did Blackstone's commentary on laws in England, very formative in the legal process in America. He was quoted 7.9% of the time. John Locke was quoted 2.9 percent of the time and foreseeded the two treaties of government. John Lockey is the one who was actually the most quoted during the American Revolution. He's the guy that came up with life, liberty, and property, which Jefferson then kind of gave a little spin on it and said life, liberty, pursuit of happiness. Well, those are the top three most quoted individuals. John Loc, 2. 9%, William Blackstone, 7. 9% and Charles Montesquieu, 8. 3%. But what he identified, and it's worth noting, Donald Lutz worked with lots of other professors. They had grad students, they had lots of helpers as they're collecting and analyzing his data. He's working with lots people, but what they discovered was that even though Charles Montesquieu was the most quoted individual, he wasn't the most-quoted source. The most-quartered source was the Bible with 34% of the quotes coming from the Bible. And then Donald Lutz, his professor, acknowledged that what they included in the study was only what was in quotation marks. He said, when we were reading the founders writing, trying to find these quotes, we found way more Bible references. They just weren't in quotation marks so we didn't include them. Had we included the obvious Bible references that were also in the letters, not in quotation, marks the number would have been far higher than 34% and I would argue have been well over 40% probably over 50% just how much we've read the letters of the founding fathers and not seeing direct quotation marks, but seeing them quoting scripture and why it matters. Is we're talking about today celebrating the most successful governing document in the history of the world for a nation. And then dad, as you mentioned, maybe outside of Israel, obviously the Bible would take precedence, right? That's way more important. It's way more successful, but we're a governing document. The constitution United States is the most successful one. Why has it been so successful? And the thing that's worth noting is the Majority of the ideas that influence the Founding Fathers came from the Bible. The guys who did the Constitution were influenced by the Bible more than any other source, and it wasn't even close how much they were influenced by it. And there's a lot of writings we can go through documenting as well. But I think that that's an important foundation. Like step number one, understand the Bible was the greatest influence of the Founded Father. So when they write this document to help America learn to govern herself, their ideas are coming from the bible more than anywhere else. And the reason it matters, we know God's ways work. So we're looking, going, man, our constitution is so suggestible, why, how it's been influenced by the Bible more than anything else. But then to your point, the second thing, Dad, is there's a lot of people that today might argue we're in a constitutional crisis. I think Charlie Kirk, right? Even in some of his interviews, people might have seen videos over the last week or so. He talked about this, where he says, you know, people say we're a constitutional crisis. The problem is not the constitution. The problem as the people. Why? Because that's your point. The really famous John Adams quote, it was in a letter written to the militia of Massachusetts in 1798. And he said our constitution was made only for a moral and religious people, it's wholly inadequate to the government of any other. Our constitution doesn't work for people that don't have a religious and moral foundation because our constitution is built on giving freedom to people. But when you have freedom to immoral people, they do immoral things, which is what has filled our news feed over the last several weeks. Immoral people doing very evil and moral things. Well, the founding fathers knew. Freedom really only works with the right foundation. And so dad, kind of to your point, even as we are celebrating Constitution Day, if we don't have a moral restoration based on Christianity in our nation, the Constitution might not last a whole lot longer, because the foundation the Constitution was built on were not only the influence of the Bible, but it was built with the idea of people that were influenced by the Bible to to live under it, because it was giving them freedom and freedom only works if you have a more old people. 

Rick Green [00:13:26] All right, we're going to take a quick break. We'll be right back. We're celebrating Constitution Day. And of course, that celebration means getting educated about it, understanding these foundations that David and Tim were talking about in order to be able to preserve it for the next generation. We have to know all of those things. So stay with us folks. We're right back, you're listening to the WallBuilder show. Welcome back to The Wallbuilders Show. Thanks for staying with us. Constitution Day today. So we're sort of doing a Foundations of Freedom Thursday on a Wednesday because today is Constitution Day. And then tomorrow we'll actually do a regular Wednesday-type program, which will actually include Pastor Alan Jackson out of Tennessee, talking about Charlie Kirk and some of the things that are now happening in the culture and how the Church can stand up. And of course, guys, doing that under the Constitution and churches knowing what they can do under the constitution, very important. As well. Of course, we want to point people to Biblical citizenship in modern America. You can get that at PatriotAcademy.com or at wallbuilders.com. And it was one of the things actually we did with Charlie Kirk was teach the Constitution to a lot of people. Turning Point Faith and Patriot Academy and WallBuilders all teaming up to get churches to actually teach the constitution along with a Biblical perspective on the Constitution, which goes right back to what you guys were saying about being a moral and religious people. 

Tim Barton [00:15:40] Alright guys so knowing it's Wednesday but normally we do foundation to freedom and there's questions I then have the question for you guys today and I didn't even email this one in. 

Rick Green [00:15:52] Wait a minute, wait a minute. That's not allowed. It has to come, it has to, we got to pause the program and wait for you to type this up and then send it in. 

Tim Barton [00:16:01] I could do it, I could so well, my question for you guys, I mean, Rick, you know, America's constitution coach, dad, you the OG, the advisor on the constitution as as we are processing where we are in American civic literacy, knowing it's not great. What do you guys think? Is one of the most misunderstood parts of the U.S. Constitution. And what should people know about it? On Constitution Day, what do people not know? What should they know? What do you think? 

Rick Green [00:16:35] Oh man, we got to pick one each. We got like 10 minutes left in the program, David. How in the world? Oh, well, let's go to the constitution coach first. Well, we harp about this one a lot, right? We talk about it a lot in the, in the constitution classes is just the, the belief that we have three equal branches of government and then even treating the court as a higher branch when it's actually supposed to be the weakest. I think that one thing getting corrected or or just the limited power of government based on the constitution or the fact that we shouldn't be funding science and arts and all of that. We're just supposed to protect it. Okay. I cheated. I did three. Okay. All right, David, your turn, man. 

Tim Barton [00:17:09] Well, well, hang on, let's unfold this for a second, because if there's people listening, right, I'm probably they listen to our program, they've heard us more than once, and maybe they have a foundation board. But just in case, on Constitution Day, if somebody doesn't know, Rick, why don't we have three co equal branches? Because clearly, the government tells us today, our history books tell us today professors today tell us we have a three critical branches. So why would you suggest that they are not co equal? And I know you get to pick multiple reasons why between the Federalist Papers and the Founders Writings and the Constitution itself, but what would you like to offer as your evidence? 

Rick Green [00:17:45] Well, I would say that my opinion means nothing and doesn't matter, but the guys that gave us the constitution, their opinion definitely does and they said, you know, Madison talks about it and I think it's Federalist 51 about the legislature necessarily predominates, meaning it's the most powerful. And I always think of the necessarily as being because we can hold them accountable faster than we can the courts or even the president. We can elect that house every two years and it's the law-making authority. It's the law making body. So it should be the most power making those, making those laws. That would be my first piece of evidence. 

Tim Barton [00:18:15] Well, and I think it's at federal 78 where they say that the judicial is beyond comparison the weakest. 

Rick Green [00:18:22] Yes, that's... Yeah. 

Tim Barton [00:18:23] So if the legislative necessarily predominate, so it's the most powerful, the judicial is beyond comparison to the weakest. And then of course, you have the constitution. In Article 1, it has the layout of the most power, and that's the legislative branch. And then you have Article 2, which is the executive branch, and then that's given the next most things, constitutionally, the authority it has. And then the third is, the third article is the judicial, and the legislative most words, most power executive, second most words, second-most power. Judicial is the third article and it is smaller than the first two and is given way less power to even the views of the Constitution. There's no way you would read the Constitution and realize a legislature is given so much more power, so much more responsibility than the executive branch is given power and responsibility. And then judicial, there's only a couple things they're told they could do, you wouldn't even read the Constitution and come away thinking that these are three co-equal branches. And then you have the federalist papers and the founders writing. So so much evidence that we could offer. But certainly that is one of the big myths. They are not Co-Equal branches and if Congress whatever get in their mind that we could actually do some things instead of I feel like at times they really feel comfortable hiding behind the skirts of the courts and like no We're gonna let the court solve this problem because they don't want to be leaders They're oftentimes very cowardly and they're afraid of their next election or whatever the case might be But if if Congress ever asserted themselves There is far more they can do and there's a lot of things that could be resolved if Congress do their job That's not to digress dad. What do you think is one of the most misunderstood things from the Constitution? And what is the truth to the answer? 

David Barton [00:20:12] I think the preamble of the Constitution creates a lot of misunderstanding, a lot of confusion in the way that it states itself and the way this interpreted today. Preamble, real simple, it's the overview. We the people of the United States in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, ensure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity. Do ordain and establish this constitution for the United States of America. The fact that it talks about the general welfare is what is often used to justify social programs and justify a lot of government programs. And general welfare did not mean that to the founding fathers. Founding fathers, the general warfare just meant the general good, and the general goods was secured by what they put in the document, which did not allow for social programs and welfare. That was states. So I think that's the part that I would point to and I've heard congressmen talk about the general welfare clause and therefore we do this for the elderly and we do for the young and we this for education and we for the homeless and that's just not the role in federal constitution at all. All of that was left to the states and that was really clear in their debates at that point in time when they wrote this. So that's what I would probably point to is the general welfare and the preamble. 

Rick Green [00:21:33] Yeah, I would add to that too, David, the general welfare clause in Article 1, Section 8 is actually tied to paying off debt and making sure that we're not hurting the nation. We're supposed to be protecting the system itself and the states and the free flow of commerce between the states. And now we've got this individual warfare concept that's breaking the bank for sure. Tim, we've gotta turn the tables, man. What about you? 

Tim Barton [00:22:00] I think probably the phrase found in the Constitution that is the most misunderstood is the separation of church and state. I think that's the part of the Constitution. People are confused by the most. I think they're the most confused by that fact that it's not there and they think it is. 

Rick Green [00:22:21] The imaginary part. 

Tim Barton [00:22:22] I mean, it's so crazy, right? And they're like, no, no. It's really there. And you're like no, it's not. And we've been so ingrained to think, I mean dad, almost like , w mentioned with the general welfare clause, so ingrain to think that certain phrases means certain things when that's not what they were intended. It is not what they were written for. Well, I think the separation church and state, man, it is crazy. The life of its own, it has taken on when people have so ingrained in their mind that we're not supposed to have religion in government, which also we talked about Senator Tim Kaine from Virginia just a couple of weeks ago when he talked about how it bothers him. It's kind of a dangerous idea that we would have rights that come from a creator and not from legislators, not from law, like the audacity that people would think that was a good idea, obviously. The founding fathers believe that our rights come from our creator, but part of why it matters, is when people have worked to say separation of certain states. They're not suggesting that we shouldn't allow the government to dictate our faith and the operation of our faith. What they're saying is, we don't want religion in government, we want a secular government. Why? That's even more dangerous than most people realize is like the move we saw from Senator Tim Kaine. When you're saying there are no God-given rights, instead the legislature And the legal system, that's what grants people's rights. That's the danger. If there is no God, there are no God given rights. And then you have government officials who think they are the ones who get to determine and dictate what our rights are. And as we even pointed out in the first half of the program, our constitution, according to the founding fathers, was made only for a moral and religious people that the foundation that we need to allow this to work. In our nation, big picture on constitution days, we celebrate 239 years on the constitution. It only works when we have a moral foundation. So the more people have bought into this notion that separation of church and state means we need a secular government, we need the secular public square, we need secular arena, the more dangerous it has become. And guys, one of the things that we so appreciate about Charlie Kirk over the last several years was how much more clarity he had in his message of faith. How so much of what he had done in his early years was very politically oriented, but not with the depth of faith. And over the last several years, he realized as important as it is to have these political conversations, if we don't restore some faith foundation. Then the nation is not going to exist and last going forward. And I think not only is that something the founding fathers knew and understood, that's something that we saw growing in the nation, a rebirth of some of those thoughts and ideas. And I am really excited. That there are so many young people now that are catching some of that vision that not only this weekend where there are more people in churches, the highest attended weekend for church apart from Easter. This is number two in the year and I do think over the next several Sundays we'll continue to see people that are coming to church for the first time, largely because of Charlie Kirk's life and example. Some people didn't even know who he was. And then because of the assassination, they went and looked up his videos and they were challenged by what he said in the videos that they need faith, they need God in their life. And I really do think we're gonna see some of this restoration happen. We've seen this week on college campuses, prayer vigils, and at times, huge turnout, stadiums full of people coming to have time of prayer. And I think we are starting to see some of that foundational restoration that it's going to take for our Constitution to remain for many years going forward. 

Rick Green [00:25:56] No doubt about it. And of course, you know, it's that education of ourselves, our neighbors, our friends, our family, people in our church, people in our community, that is how we get the Constitution back alive so that people understand what it is. I was just reading, you know, as of this program going on the air on Wednesday, I just seen an email from Turning Point saying 54,000 requests to start Turning Point chapters now. Those are chapters that will teach the Constitution. They'll even use some of our WallBuilders and Patriot Academy material to do that. I mean, that is an answer to prayer right there. What an incredible impact. The Constitution is once again being studied across our country. So very good news. Happy Constitution Day to everybody. We'll we'll do our Thursday program tomorrow instead of a Foundations of Freedom Thursday program like we did the day. We'll have special guest Alan Jackson with us. Don't miss it. Thanks for listening to The WallBuilders Show.