The WallBuilders Show
The WallBuilders Show is a daily journey to examine today's issues from a Biblical, Historical and Constitutional perspective. Featured guests include elected officials, experts, activists, authors, and commentators.
The WallBuilders Show
No Kings, No Fascists, Know History
Seven million in the streets—or a narrative that outran the facts? We unpack the “No Kings” rallies with a clear-eyed look at turnout claims, media framing, and the surprising historical flubs that turned Boston Tea Party lore into prop work. From there, we trace a bigger thread: how redefining loaded words like fascism isn’t just sloppy, it’s strategic. When a term once reserved for Mussolini and Hitler gets reduced to shorthand for “policies I dislike,” the debate tilts from evidence to emotion, and the public loses its compass.
We walk through what fascism actually meant historically—authoritarian one-party rule, suppression of dissent, cult-of-leader nationalism—and measure today’s accusations against that yardstick. The presence of permitted protests and noisy opposition doesn’t fit the totalist mold. So why does the label stick? Projection. Calling your opponents what you fear in your own camp blunts accountability. We explore how that tactic shapes voter behavior, including why polls in places like Virginia can swing without voters switching sides; fatigue can make people sit out rather than cross the aisle.
The conversation also draws a hard line between protected speech and incitement. Protest is core to a free republic; urging violence is not. If you hate a law, the constitutional fix is representation and reform, not threatening agents who enforce statutes. That civic clarity connects to a deeper foundation: rights rooted in God, not government, and a culture capable of self-control. Without a moral backbone, rhetoric escalates, definitions melt, and the center cannot hold.
If you’re hungry for grounded history, honest terms, and a roadmap for principled civic action, this one’s for you. Listen, share with a friend who’s wrestling with the headlines. Your voice keeps this conversation honest and alive.
Rick Green [00:00:07] Welcome to the Intersection of Faith and Culture. It's the WallBuilders Show, taking on the hot topics of the day from a biblical, historical, and constitutional perspective. Rick Green here with David Barton and Tim Barton. And we have such a benevolent king, guys, that everybody was able to say no kings this weekend. And I was hoping he'd show up at some of the rallies with a scepter. Might have been really, you know, entertaining at least.
Tim Barton [00:00:28] What y'all think of this? Well, the social media posts are some of the most incredible trolling there has been. Certainly.
David Barton [00:00:36] Wait wait my guys. Before you go there. What are you guys talking about? Did something happen this weekend?
Rick Green [00:00:42] Supposedly seven million people came out. I I have a really hard time believing that, but I guess it was all over the country and now we know who all of the left wing Trump derangement syndrome people are.
David Barton [00:00:55] So allegedly seven million a and and so does this mean the shutdown is now over?
Tim Barton [00:01:01] No.
David Barton [00:01:03] And see, this has been the most underreported event I think I've ever been around in my life. It's all pre reported, but now that it's happened, I've seen nearly nothing. And so that's why I say almost facetiously, are you guys sure that an event happened this weekend? 'Cause I just haven't seen much at on at all.
Tim Barton [00:01:20] I think It was MSNBC that showed footage of how large the crowd was in Boston. It's huge. They said millions of people were there. And then it had there were people exposing the fact that the footage they were using was not from the Saturday No Kings rally. So they found old footage of an actual crowd, just not the crowd from the No Kings rally this Saturday. Certainly it does seem to be underwhelming to some extent, although guys. One of the things that I I did a social media video on, which I don't know if we've even posted that yet, but Bill Nye was marching in one of the No Kings protests, and he had I think it was like the pocket constitution with a declaration because he held it out and he said, Here's all the grievances when we were resisting the king under the Tea Party. And so what we're doing is similar to the Tea Party. We're protesting, and you know, here's where they listed all their grievances, and I encourage you to go back and read it. And I was thinking, what grievances did they have listed for the Boston Tea Party? Obviously, the declaration had the list of grievances. There was 27, the final draft, there was I think 24 in the original draft. That's that's the listing of grievances I know about. What in the world are you talking about, Bill Nye? That you're pulling out some declaration-related document and saying this is their grievances from the Boston Tea Party. There, there's just so many things that is coming from the left that is misrepresenting that is dishonest. It makes no sense. And Rick, to your point, the idea that we are protesting a king after he won the election in November with not only the electoral collage, but also the popular vote. And now you're saying he's a king after having won that. And I was up in Boston last week, and I flew out to California over the weekend while I was in the Uber on the way to the airport the Uber driver was talking about the shutdown, and he said, well, you know why President Trump has shut the government down. And I could already tell this Boston Uber driver was not the person I wanted to see debate in that moment. It wasn't going to be productive. And I just wanted a safe ride to the airport. So I said, really? Why? And he said, Well, it's because Trump's on the Epstein list. And he knew if the government stays open, they're gonna release the Epstein list. And so he had to shut the government down. That's why Trump shut the government down. And again, in my mind, I'm like, Trump is not the one who shut the government down. That the Republicans literally had proposals the Democrats wouldn't vote to allow passage of. But again, this is just where so much up left is coming from. The misdirection, the dishonesty, the accusation, it makes no sense at all.
David Barton [00:04:12] You know, one of the things that was fun to me was just in looking at this, I I pulled up the historical definition of fascism and the the No Kings rally is supposed to be an anti fascist rally because the the administration and what's happening now, this is fascism in America, and these guys are fighting for freedom and they're against fascism. And and so I looked up historical definitions of fascism, and then I asked AI, what is fascism? And the AI answer is radically different from what the traditional definition should be. And the AI sounds like it's just picking up all the MSNBC comments and everything else, which I know AI take takes all the current stuff, but the the definition I got from AI was not even close to historical, and it sounded like it was an anti-Trump definition that had been written specifically for this event. And it was kind of funny because as I went back through and looked at some of the historical characteristics of fascism, and and these guys are out and they're, you know, allegedly they're protesting what fascism stands for. I'm not saying this that this is fascist at all. I just want to point out some things. One of the things that that according to and by the way, Wikipedia and and Britannica both kind of update their articles to make it reflect current stuff, but opposition to Marxism and socialism is one thing that fascists are known for. So I guess these guys that are protesting must support Marxism and socialism. And then as I went through some of these other characteristics that that are, you know, again today that the that it says that, you know, these are the things that they're protesting. Then another another one of the things that popped up was they have an opposition to liberalism. So these guys protesting must support liberalism. And then one of the things they say fascists like the free market system, they don't like socialism. And I just went through all these definitions and man, this is such a strange definition. And if you just took the definitions that they're spouting right now, and if you didn't know anything about America, just took those definitions, you would think that they were describing the Obama and the Biden administrations, not the Trump administration. And I just I found it really humorous to see how the definitions have changed just in the last few weeks.
Tim Barton [00:06:32] Well, so Dad, that then I think the valid question, because you haven't brought this up or pointed this out yet, is you said the old definition, very different than how it's being defined now. We of course know from basic debate ideas and strategies that whoever defines the terms often has an advantage when it comes to the conversation and debate. And whoever controls the words and controls language can kind of control future and destiny. So certainly they're trying to redefine it, but let's back up. You said the historic definition very different than the modern kind of explanation of what's going on. So, what's the historic definition of fascism?
David Barton [00:07:07] You know, it's interesting. In all the old encyclopedias, and I went back to those that have not been updated in the last few years or few months or a few minutes, going back, they they s they point fascism as not being a modern movement, but being an older movement and that it is represented and the two epitomizations they put of fascism is Hitler and Mussolini. And they're they're authoritarian governments where there is no no rule of the people, there's no election by the people. These are dictators that put themselves in, and then you have to worship them as worshiping the nation. And so they're ultra nationalists. They're they're there to, you know, create the nation to be what but only through their eyes and there's no opposition allowed. You don't have protests like we just allegedly had this weekend if if there were actually protests, but I guess if you have to make up your your photographs to have protest, maybe it wasn't a big protest, but
Tim Barton [00:08:05] Well, at least making up making up videos or replacing videos to show the size of it. Because obviously there were protests. Where I was speaking this weekend in California with a family research council was doing an event out at Jack Hibbs church, and they had free Palestine protesters out there with the other kinds of all of the signs that you'd expect to see in silly places. Like all of those signs were there. So it was the anti-Israel, it was a free Palestine. It was the anti-Trump, and then that was on Friday and then on Saturday, you had the no kings joining in all of that, which of course Jack Hibb was great. As as he was talking Friday night, he said, you know, I feel like maybe somebody should go over and tell them like the Free Palestine thing, like, hey guys, there's peace, right? Like this it's it's kind of been resolved some now. Of course, we're getting reports today, or even on Sunday that Hamas has started firing, and so Israel responded. So it was already a miracle that anything happened. And the only unknown thing was how long the miracle would last, because we didn't expect Hamas to be peaceful and to keep their word in any degree whatsoever. Nonetheless, there definitely were no kings things out there, but it it seems to have lost some momentum and steam for sure.
Rick Green [00:09:27] I'm I'm so confused by something you said though, David. You you you said that they define fascism as someone like Hitler or Mussolini. I just I find that really Hitler's really changed his stripes. I mean, if he's now, you know, he he was killing all the Jews a hundred years ago, but now he's actually the best friend of the Jews in Israel that they've ever had, if if supposedly this president is a fascist. I don't get that part. Like how do how do they make that mental leap?
David Barton [00:09:52] Well, also the the historic ones had they literally had Holocaust. And the closest we're gonna come to a Holocaust right now is the abortion stuff, and that is certainly not what's happening on on the Republican conservative side. That's what's happening in the on the liberal side. And just in and looking at the way they have done the things and the way they have done the and by the way, here's another interesting thing. There were allegedly thirty seven hundred and fifty separate rallies across the nation. And maybe they had 'em, maybe they didn't, maybe it's only two people or some, who knows? You know, I I'm making fun of it because I just don't see I see a vast underperformance of what they were promising. But nonetheless, even if they did have three million or four million or five million out of three hundred and thirty million, you're still talking only one to two percent. And so within that what showed up, the the one group that was consistently identified as part of this group was the Communist Party. So when the Communist Party is taking the position that it's taking and you're lining up with what the Communist Party supports, you've got a really weird definition somewhere. When when communists are your allies in this thing, and and they're the ones who come to the rallies with you. So you know, I don't think this would be possible if we h had had as good of education as we should have had in the last twenty, thirty years, but I definitely think that this did not catch on with the people and that people aren't buying this and other than the media, they're not really keeping this alive.
Tim Barton [00:11:19] Well, I do think it's interesting too that so often the people that have been at these rallies, and I've seen many videos of some of the different protesters and some different media outlets, even conservatives showing how silly some of their arguments or chants were. Along those lines, somebody pointed out, you know, at the rally where I'm looking, it's primarily white, old retired women that are here. That this is not representative, by and large, of the American people. These are old white retired women. And and I do think that that's something significant as well when you start looking at the breakdown of the people that are identifying Republican, the people that are identifying Democrat or conservative or liberal or faith or anti, et cetera. It's it is interesting how many of these unhappy women have been at the forefront of some of these anti-Trump protests. And I don't need to get into psychology of that. I have a lot of thoughts and ideas behind it, but certainly the demographic most largely represented is not the demographic that seems to love and appreciate America the most. And again, the irony that they're having a no kings protest when the reality is, Dad, kind of to your point, if there actually was a fascist in charge in America, that fascist doesn't allow the people to do things that oppose the leader. That fascist would never allow it. If there we, if we had a king, there never could be a no kings rally. Bottom line, pretty safe to say if you have a no kings rally, you don't have a king, and you certainly don't have a fascist. And when it is the socialists, when it is the communists that are accusing the people that are in favor of freedom of being the fascist, you also can recognize that's projection. That's when you are accusing your opponent of what you yourself are doing. And we certainly saw that on full display.
Rick Green [00:13:16] Yeah, I think the projection thing is that's really been their recipe for the last few years, right? I mean, that's what they called all of us, even during the minus Biden administration, to in the J6ers, everybody else to try to shut them down and to and to silence the movement and to really get people to to to be unwilling to speak up, let alone protest, but not even say anything on Facebook or or on social media. And yeah, everything for them is about projection for sure. All right, quick break, guys, we'll be right back. You're listening to the WallBuilders Show.
Rick Green [00:14:51] Welcome back to the WallBuilders Show. Thanks for staying with us. Hope you had a great weekend and you weren't you know, didn't have your traffic stopped up by these folks in the streets or any of these other No Kings rallies. No, I think David, what you said earlier, definitely either under-reported or they just didn't have near the big crowds that they thought they were gonna have. Even though Kamala Harris asked them to come out, you know, I I'm just shocked that she wasn't able to convince people..
David Barton [00:15:15] Well, you know, part of this may be reflected in what you're seeing in Virginia now, where it apparently the the Dems are have lost ten or twelve points in the upcoming election, is what polling shows now. And so the Dems may not be, you know, getting the ground they want, and their their messages may not be resonating because there are so many things happening that that people are are liking. And you know, again, my if you will, my prediction is that I don't think that the Democrats are going to start voting Republican, but I do think they may sit it out and not vote for some of their candidates and kind of see what happens. You really they they really can't make that jump sometimes from being Democrat to being a Republican, but they can make the jump from being Democrat to being independent, and then later they go from being independent to being conservative. And Rick, you were talking before the break to about how they project things. And that was one of the the lessons I really learned very early in a Bible verse that stood out to me was Romans 2:21, and it says, thou that accuses another accuses thine own self also. And it's the kind of deal that w when you're really sensitive to something and you accuse others of it, it really is projection. It's very often it's like, well, look in the mirror. You you understand that so well because you do it yourself. And that's why you can recognize it so quickly, is because it's part of who you are. And that literally is very often, I mean, everything they're complaining about with with Trump is very easy to demonstrate proof of of concept, if you want, that it happened with Obama and Biden, both. The very things they're talking about happened very frequently with those two, and that's why they're so sensitive to it, maybe, but they're projecting onto Trump things that really aren't happening, like total control of government and and and total control of elections. And you know, this as Tim as you pointed out, this is the guy who won the electoral college and the popular vote. So how did that work? So there there's just a lot there, Rick, with what you said about projection, but I think that's human nature that God identified way back in Romans two. And you see that in everything from school board election through president of the United States election.
Rick Green [00:17:26] Well, and it's proved to be effective in some ways for them, but I think you're right. I mean, in terms of, you know, trying to label us so that then when we point out what they're actually doing, then it doesn't have as much punch. But I think their game plan's losing steam. If you you need I think you said, David, there's huge shift in in Virginia. Is that what you would call voter suppression, where their people are just they're just out of steam. They're like they're they're tired of of their own team embarrassing them and they don't and they don't even want to show up to vote. Do you think that has a lot to do with it?
David Barton [00:17:58] Well, there's a couple things I think can happen in Virginia. Right now, the polling is showing that that race has shifted about ten points toward the Republican, both in the attorney general race and in the the governor's race. But that doesn't mean that's how it'll turn out. What I'm looking for is okay, if the polling is shifted, it could be that those Democrats hold their nose and go vote for the Democrats. But if it is shifted and you have a lower voter turnout on the Democrat side, then we'll know that not only did that message not resonate against Republicans, the Democrats didn't even buy that message about their own people. So the polling is not necessarily an accurate indicator always of what's going on. Sometimes it's a precursor or pre indicator, but until you actually see the elections numbers and see what happens, everything is a guess. But at this point, my guess is that there has been a shift in attitude, and usually when you have a shift in attitude, you will have the shift in actions. And I don't think that those those Democrats in Virginia are gonna start suddenly start voting for the Republicans. But I do think they'll say, Hey, look, I can't support our guys. This is just ridiculous. When a guy calls for the murder of his appoint hit his opponent and that he's gonna dance on the graves of the guy's dead kids, I may not vote Republican, but I'm not gonna vote Democrat on that. And that's what I think may happen, but but again, we'll see. But the polling is usually the first indicator of some type of shift that may happen. Done guarantee it will, but it might happen, and I think we'll probably see that to some degree. And even if if if Democrats win by two points, that's that's like twelve points lower than what was projected. So even if they end up winning doesn't mean that there wasn't a shift in what happened to Virginia. It just means it may not be a as big as was needed to make the difference right then, but certainly they've lost they've lost some steam.
Rick Green [00:19:50] Well, I gotta ask you guys about that. You know, the the AG candidate, of course, the things he said, just vile and disgusting, literally wishing death upon people, including children. Apparently one of these maybe m multiple of these No Kings rallies, there was a guy, you know, calling for the death of I think it was ICE agents, I can't remember it was I think it was ICE agents, and saying, you know, they should be murdered, that people should take out their guns and start, you know, fighting back and all this. I mean, how far that's definitely not free speech. Like, how do we explain in a simple way where the line is that when you're actually calling for the death of other people, because we've had people now saying, you know, burn Patriot Academy down, kill everybody inside, that kind of stuff. I mean, that surely is not protected by free speech.
David Barton [00:20:33] Well, I I would go back to even something else. It shows a fundamental misunderstanding. Are the ICE agents upholding federal law? Yes, they are. So why kill the ICE agents? Why don't you go back to Congress and say we want a different law? Change the immigration laws. I mean, this is a fundamental misunderstanding of how the government works, what the Constitution is for. You're you're going after people who are upholding the law because you disagree with the law. You don't change the law by killing people. You change the law by getting different people in office or whatever. And and I think that that's that's part of what's so crazy about this is it's in many ways it's utter stupidity, but it's dangerous because they mean that or they could spur someone that might do that.
Tim Barton [00:21:13] Well, and guys, this is exactly why John Adams, for example, said that our constitution is made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the governor of any others, because if you give freedom to people that don't have that moral compass, and in this case, maybe even a civic understanding, then they it can lead to encouraging a very wrong, sinful, evil, illegal acts. And yet, that is certainly some of what we are seeing happen. Rick, I think maybe even Don Lemon, that might be one of the clips you saw where Don Lennon was saying, hey, if you are black or brown, go get a gun. And if you see ice show up, use your guns to stop them, is essentially what he called for. Now he said, right, get a gun legally, carry it legally, but don't be afraid to use your gun to stop ICE if they come your direction. I don't mean to misrepresent him. I think that's what I remember him saying.
Rick Green [00:22:01] Wow.
Tim Barton [00:22:02] But right, this is.
[00:22:03] I did not see that, man.
Tim Barton [00:22:05] This is what's quite interesting and significant about it, is on some level, he's kind of right. The second amendment did exist to stop a tyrannical government. But where he's totally wrong is this is not the government being tyrants. This is the government's actually enforcing the law. But because we had so many years or even decades where the government neglected to enforce the law, then it looks even more extreme when they are finally doing what needs to be done according to the law. And and I don't remember the exact quote right now off the top of my head. It'll probably come to me later. You guys might remember it, but those that speak truth, right, and in the era of lies and it seems, or what is it about truth being extreme? When you speak the truth and it seems extreme, when truth is outlawed, then those that speak the truth seem extreme, something like that, right? That that's kind of what we're seeing when it comes to people upholding the law. When you haven't upheld the law for decades and then you uphold the law, you seem extreme or intolerant, or right, whatever they might want to do to accuse him of now being the fascist or the communist or Hitler, all the things they're accusing Trump and Republicans and the White House, et cetera, of they're none of those things. They literally are just upholding the law that was passed. And dad, back to your point, if you don't like the laws, well, there's ways to get around those laws, and not to digress too far in this, but the founding fathers did believe there came a time that you should not obey laws if they were ungodly, immoral, unbiblical, but that's where also they had a clarity of standard that you know even backing up at the No Kings rally, the idea no king but King Jesus, that was a real idea in the founding era that they really believed, and that's why in the declaration it says that we all these truths to be self-evident, all men are created equal, endowed by their creator,
David Barton [00:23:59] And by the way, Tim, you you said that backing up to the No King's Rally. That No Kings but King Jesus is not part of the No Kings rally. That was the Founding Fathers motto that they had back in seventeen seventy five. And and so just so nobody thinks that that was what No King's Rally was using, Tim's talking about something that happened way back in the founding era.
Rick Green [00:24:18] Well, and it goes to Tim's point about a moral and religious people too, right? If it's no king's king Jesus, you're saying we're going to be self governing and we're going to have a government that can be small because we're a moral and religious people. That's why, guys, I'm more excited. I mean, all the stuff Trump's doing with regulation and taxes and everything else is great. But I'm more excited about the restoration of a of a God consciousness and all the things that they're helping to do on that end more than anything else, because it it's exactly what you were just describing, Tim. None of these doesn't do any good to have the laws on the books or or, you know, you know, prevent certain types of protests or any of that kind of stuff. If you don't have a moral and religious people, that's the most important part.
Tim Barton [00:24:56] Yeah. And that's why, again, from the declaration, when they start in the second paragraph, we hold these truths to be self-evident. All men are created equal. They're endowed by their creator with these rights. That this was the fundamental foundation that, again, we seem to have lost today. Our rights come from our divine creator. They come from God. And when we have lived in a secular era for now decades, largely speaking, and I say secular era in the sense of that's what education has taught us. This is what academia has upheld. It's what politicians have told us. They might believe in God personally, but you can't really have God in a lot of the governmental arenas. You can't have God in education and in business and all these things we're told God's not allowed to be. And so then if God's not allowed to be in government and they're passing laws that determine what we can and can't do, well, then who's the one that determines our rights? It's not God. These aren't inalienable rights. This is government that is now the one doing and promoting those things. And so the restoration of that religious and moral foundation is the only thing that allows freedom to work. And upholding laws, not unconstitutional, doesn't make you a fascist. And if you don't like the laws, that's why we get involved to work to change those laws.
David Barton [00:26:04] And Rick, going back to something you said earlier, there are definitely statutes against inciting violence. You got the right of free speech, but you don't have the right to incite violence that would violate the inalable rights of life, liberty, or property. And that's what those kind of bright and insurrections do. If you want to go protest it, protest it, but you cannot incite violence to overthrow inalable rights and going after the likes of ICE agents or going after property, et cetera. That's just that's not acceptable within the parameters of free speech in the Constitution.
Rick Green [00:26:38] An excellent point. Well no king but king Jesus, guys. Thanks so much for listening today. You've been listening to the WallBuilders Show.
