Undercover Inside A D.C. Islamist Network - with David Gaubatz

A former federal agent joins us with a claim that still shocks people years later: he assembled a team, trained them to move quietly inside Sharia-driven spaces, and sent them undercover to assess the Council on American-Islamic Relations (CAIR). What they say they found, including the recovery of roughly 13,000 internal documents, shapes the entire conversation and raises urgent questions about how influence campaigns work when they don’t look like “terrorism” on the surface.

We dig into the difference between kinetic violence and what we call cultural jihad: the slow, persuasive strategy aimed at institutions, education, and public opinion. David Gobbitz argues that another 9-11 style attack may be strategically delayed because it would wake the country up, while “lone wolf” activity and ideological pressure can keep fear alive and momentum moving. We connect that argument to Texas, local community debates, and why law enforcement often feels handcuffed when investigations touch mosques, schools, or anything labeled religious.

The hardest part of the conversation is a disturbing allegation involving a child inside a Sharia class and the long fight to get authorities to act. We also discuss what “freedom of religion” protects under the First Amendment when an Imam describes Islam as a political, economic, and military ideology using religion as a tool. If you care about national security, constitutional boundaries, and protecting kids while keeping a clear head, this is a challenging but important listen.

Subscribe for more conversations at the intersection of faith and culture, share this with a friend who wants sources not slogans, and leave a review with your biggest takeaway.

Transcript

Rick Green [00:00:07] Welcome to the Intersection of Faith and Culture. It's the WallBuilders Show, taking on the hot topics of the day from a biblical, historical, and constitutional perspective. Sure seems like one of the hottest topics out there is Islam and the Islamification of not only Texas, but the entire country. We're gonna hit that one head on today with the author of a book called Muslim Mafia. You're gonna be amazed by this interview. By the way, I'm Rick Green, here with David and Tim Barton. You can find out more about us at our websites, wallbuilders.com for everything that we've got. So, wallbuilders.com is our main website. Wallbuilders.show for the radio program and previous programs you might have missed. Let's take a quick break I know right up here at the beginning of the program and then we're going to spend a lot of time with David Gaubatz. And you're going be blown away by what we're gonna learn. Stay with us, you're listening to The WallBuilders Show. 

Rick Green [00:02:00] Welcome back to The WallBuilders Show. Thanks for staying with us. David Gaubatz with us, got to talk about this book, Muslim Mafia. He was way, way ahead of the curve while the rest of us were asleep at the wheel, most everybody in the country. And man, now a lot of people are waking up and a lot of the things he warned about 16, 17, 18 years ago are actually happening now. David, thank you so much for coming on, sir. 

David Gaubatz  [00:02:22] Thank you Rick. I appreciate it. 

Rick Green [00:02:25] Well, you wrote a book eight, I guess it's 18 years ago now, 17 years ago, Muslim Mafia: Inside the Secret Underworld That's Conspiring to Islamize America. And a lot of people didn't take you serious and here we are. We're now watching it happen. The background of this is quite amazing and, and I would love to get your story for our listeners and, just how this all came about. 

David Gaubatz  [00:02:52] Sure, no problem. This book actually came out in 2009. A little bit of a background. I had first started studying Islam in 1979 upon my first deployment to Saudi Arabia and I continued up to this day, so about 45 years. In 2007-2008, I was contacted by Frank Gaffney and his crew at the Center for Security Policy, and he was the Undersecretary of Defense for President Ronald Reagan. And he asked me at that time, he said, could I put together a team of about six people to go in CAIR headquarters, Washington DC, for approximately six months to determine truly who CAIR is? Are they friend or foe? And I did, I said, yes, it would be difficult initially because you have to have the right people and you have to understand the security of CAIR. And at the time we had very little information about how CAIR headquarters operates. So, Rick, what I had to do first would do some individual security tests within CAIR, like sending an individual to the front door. To see how hard it would be actually to even get into the lobby. And then what would be the process to put an intern or an employee inside. So that took a couple months before the actual operation even began. 

Rick Green [00:04:28] And this was what year was this that you that you did the undercover operation? 

David Gaubatz [00:04:33] This was 2007-2008 that I did the undercover operation. The book came out in 2009. 

Rick Green [00:04:41] Gotcha. Okay. Great. And I don't know if you know, Frank Gaffney now is working with us at Patriot Academy. He actually teaches our students and is working on a new effort essentially to inform the nation of a lot of the stuff that you discovered back then and how to respond to it. So, amazing how these things come, come back around. So, once you started doing that initial, you know, assessment, what did it, what it take to actually get inside the operation? 

David Gaubatz [00:05:11] Well, I knew from my experience with studying Islam that the key to getting an insight in Islamic organizations such as CAIR, defined as Hamas Muslim Brotherhood, would be the individuals I chose would have to be people opposite from the way law enforcement goes undercover. Dealing with law enforcement, I was a federal agent for over 15 years. And undercover operations, say, going into gangs or narcotics areas, an undercover officer has to have what we refer to as the gift of gab to be able to just go in and talk, talk, talk, talk, talk continuously. And that's how they get the people and gangs and narcotics operations to open up. To go inside undercover inside an Islamic terror group, It requires just the opposite. You have to have someone who goes in and is very, very quiet, doesn't ask a lot of questions. And number one, they have to understand Sharia law because that is the way to get in undercover. And that's what I train before I put people undercover inside CAIR headquarters. I train my individuals simply to understand Sharia law, how to dress, the mannerisms, things to say, things not to say, things to do, things not do. And for your audience who really maybe not understand Sharia Law. Sharia Law covers a Muslim's life 24 hours a day. Everything they happen to do from the way they eat, take a bath, go to sleep, prayers, physical jihad, laws within Sharia, the Hadoo, the punishment laws, what is a death penalty and what is not. Individual that goes undercover must fully understand Sharia. So, the six people I picked to go undercover knew absolutely nothing about Islam. I mean they could not define what Islam was. They had no idea what Sharia law was. So, day one, I taught them Sharia, accordance, how to act and behave inside like CAIR headquarters. So that was a couple of months process there. So, they went in in 2007 and stayed approximately six months. During that time, my son, Chris, was the lead researcher and the team, he and his team were able to get approximately 13,000 documents out of CAIR, documents that CAIR was in the process of shredding that contained criminal information about their activities such as their support for al-Qaeda, Hamas, et cetera. So, we got 13,000 documents out and it lasted approximately six months and eventually about a year later ended up writing the book Muslim Mafia. 

Rick Green [00:08:28] And, and in the book, you, I mean, you basically lay out their game plan for, you know, domination essentially, I mean, to, to the Islamification of, of America and, and warn people about what was coming. 

David Gaubatz [00:08:41] Yeah, Rick, and exactly, and being a former federal agent, I only rely on first-hand evidence. So, it wasn't my opinions, it was what documents we found, plus what they personally discussed is what the book is all about. It's based on first hand evidence, not just personal opinion. And I can tell everyone now that CAIR, the Council on American-Islamic Relations is not a peace loving, assimilating, organization that wants to follow the US Constitution in America. They're exactly opposite. CAIR is headquarters Hamas and friends with Al Qaeda, ISIS, Hezbollah, et cetera. 

Rick Green [00:09:29] What, you know, now 17 years later, what, what do you recommend? You know, everybody's kind of scrambling right now. There are a lot of people waking up to the problem. Obviously, the problem is a thousand times worse than it was in 2009. You know, when you look at the landscape, what do you recommended that we need to do? 

David Gaubatz [00:09:50] Well, something that I wrote in actually 2007, and people can look this up if they just Google Gaubatz- sleeper sales. I wrote an article, an extensive article in 2007 talking about the sleeper cells, Islamic sleeper scales scattered all across America. And since I have been in 425 mosques, I can tell you firsthand that we have tens of thousands of sleeper sails ready to partake on the ideology of, in this instance today, Iran, but ISIS, al-Qaeda, whatever, we have Sunni and Shiite sleeper sales, and they were just waiting, you know, for the word, which they got partial clearance from Ayatollah in Iran, and we've seen three or four sleeper cell type terrorist activities in the U.S. plus across the world. I can tell people that they need to be prepared, prepare your families, because one can only imagine 9-11 was awful, but could you imagine 10 9-11s going across America at the same time? And something, Rick, that I'm told by moms as I go across the U-S, I've asked them. Why haven't we had another 9-11 such attack in America? Now we've had individuals like the Boston bomber, et cetera. But why have we not had another nine or 11? And over and over again, the Islamic leaders tell me, they say, Dave, they call me Diode, my Arabic name. They say, Dave, right now in America, we, meaning the Islamic ideology is winning in America. It would set them back 25 years to have another 9-11 type of attack in America. They don't need it right now. They have enough what they call lone wolf sleeper cells to keep the terror in the hearts of the American people. And right now, they're not ready for another 9-11, but when they feel that it's needed, they are very capable of carrying it out. 

Rick Green [00:12:09] That confirms so much what we have been saying from the standpoint of they don't need or want a kinetic jihad, they're winning the cultural jihad and if they go kinetic, that riles us up, right? That wakes up more Americans. Like you're saying, it would set them back because it would draw the line clearly, whereas the cultural Jihad, they're able to fool most Americans into thinking we're just here because we want freedom and we all want to get along. That game is that they're playing that game well and frankly they're winning at that right now. 

David Gaubatz  [00:12:43] They're winning and they know that and something when I was in Iraq in 2003 at the beginning of the war, I had the opportunity as a federal agent to interview dozens of al-Qaeda and Saddam Fedayeen terrorists and one of the questions I would ask them I asked them what is going to be the next type of attacks in America aside from a 9-11 type of attack and over and over again, Rick, I was told by Islamic terrorists that the next type of attack they're going to go after the hearts of the American people and I wanted them to clarify that and they said the hearts are the American people are the children of Americans and that is who is going to be targeted next by Islamic terrorist. Now keep in mind this was 2003 and they even further clarified they said it doesn't mean physical attacks initially, they were going to go after the hearts and minds of our children and then turn them against their own parents, turn them against America. And right now, if we look back, right now they're doing that and they've done a very good job of it in our colleges, everywhere from elementary schools all the way through universities. So, they said when it is time, they will conduct physical jihad against our children but right now they are going out to the hearts and the mind because they say America can be destroyed from within and it's going to be the younger generation that does that. 

Rick Green [00:14:21] Wow, wow, it's so true too. I mean, even, even now we're fighting in Texas over textbooks and, and, you know, Islamic calendars and you know getting all kinds of holidays and things into. You know, like you're saying the hearts and minds of the kids and getting them to sympathize and, frankly even convert in large numbers. So, it's real. And, and I guess the first step really is the wake-up call, it's why you wrote the book. You know, 17 years ago is to get people educated on this and then get them willing to, to take action and not, you know, not just sit back and watch it happen. I think we're, do you feel like David, are we improving on our strategy at all? I mean, like, are, are starting to get our feet under us and start to realize here's some ways we can push back and, and, uh and fight, you know, peacefully in the, within this, you know, fight the cultural jihad? 

David Gaubatz [00:15:18] No, I have to say that from what I've seen in 45 years of studying Islamic matters, overseas, like in Iran, Iraq, Syria, etc., we are doing an outstanding job of fighting Islamic-based terrorism. President Trump is probably the best president we've ever had to go after them. But inside America, I see it all across from the east to the west coast. We are doing a very, very poor job because they are attacking our children openly in America. And I'll give an example real quick of something that's going on that I see in almost every mosque. We talk about child marriages within Islam. Prophet Muhammad married a six-year-old girl, Aisha, and... did awful things to that young lady for many, many years, that young child. So, when I go to mosque, I'll try to find out anything I can pertaining to child marriages at the mosque. I went to one in Nashville and I've been to dozens like this, similar to Nashville. And inside the mosque, they were having a two-week Sharia course. Myself and a female researcher were in the mosque as Muslims, which I'm not Muslim, but... We were going through Sharia classes and sitting beside us was a little girl about seven years old. And she told my female researcher, she said, ma'am, my arms are hurting, my back is hurting. Can you help me? And then my researcher said, honey, what's wrong? And the little girl raised her sleeves and showed her welts on her arms and back. And she said that Islamic leaders beat them when they don't do Sharia correctly. And then the little girl, remember, seven years old, she told me and my female researcher, she said, and my husband does this to me, and my husband does that. 

Rick Green [00:17:26] Wow. 

David Gaubatz [00:17:27] That was sad. I called time- out at that point. I immediately went to the sheriff's department, the police department, contacted the FBI, congressmen from the left and the right. And Rick, it literally took me months and months before Child Protective Services went in that mosque. They did protect that one girl, and in my understanding, others who were also being abused. And they ended up closing that mosque in Nashville, Tennessee. And that mosque came out, originated from Minnesota. It was a Somalian mosque and a group of approximately 100 Muslim men and their wives moved to Nashville to set up an organization there. And I can tell you from the 425 mosques I've been through that child marriages are being advocated right here in the United States of America, and we have no one who's willing to step up and protect those innocent girls. 

Rick Green [00:18:30] So, so David, I mean, that sounds like it did work, but, but only because you had infiltrated only because were in there and able to hear that girl's cry for help and I just have to assume then that in mosques all over the country that's still occurring and there's, there's no one that's infiltrated, there is no one there to hear like that little girl's cry for help. Is that fair statement? 

David Gaubatz [00:18:55] That's a fair statement and that goes back to what you said. What are we doing in America? Are we doing enough? If I can go in there as a private citizen and obtain that information and within a few days, and I can to almost any mosque in America and get that type of information within a few hours, why are law enforcement not inside these mosques getting the same information? It's very, very clear what's going on. It would be very easy to do with just a small amount of training that myself or others could provide to law enforcement, but politically they are not allowed to go into the mosque to do any type of investigation. And I, and I have to relate this to what we saw in Iraq in 2003. Remember I was a civilian at that time, civilian federal agent, and we were told; you cannot go in mosques, you cannot go into hospitals, you cannot in schools. They were off-limits, anywhere else. So, what did we do? We went in mosque, schools, and hospitals, and that's exactly where we found the Islamic terrorists hiding, and we found the weapons inside the mosque and the schools and the hospitals. Same things going on here in the U.S. Mosques are essentially safe houses for Islamic terror cell sleepers and to as many headquarters across the United States. They have over 3,500 mosques and I've been told by many Islamic leaders; these are safe houses. Something I need to add real quick and I can't go into great detail right now, Rick, but I can tell you, the Attorney General's office in Texas... doing an outstanding job of trying to get a hold of all of this. I've been in Zoom meetings over the last couple weeks, a couple times, and they are pursuing criminal activity at some of the mosques across Texas. 

Rick Green [00:21:01] It's it sounds almost like when we when we talk about solutions and things we need to be doing to combat this that that one of the big ones is going to be really changing our perspective on local law enforcement. Sheriff's departments are going to have to get better and better trained on this and almost have, you know, literally create departments within that department that this is their focus. I mean we're talking. You know, 2000, well, three or four hundred actual mosques in Texas now. Two-thousand, I'm told by our mutual friend, Frank Gaffney, if you count their version of a home church where they're beginning them in, in, and communities and not yet having buildings. I can't imagine there's going to be a county unaffected. So, it's just going to have to become a huge part of our law enforcement efforts. 

David Gaubatz [00:21:45] Exactly, and I lived in Texas for about seven years total. I've probably been to a hundred plus mosque in Texas, and I've also trained every Texas state trooper back in the early 2000s, they were required to go to my classes and I trained them exactly how to go undercover to do this type activity, yet we have good law enforcement on the ground street level, but their hands are actually handcuffed because once it gets into any type of investigation, it immediately goes to the Joint Terrorism Task Force, which is led by the FBI. Inside of America, our law enforcement are not allowed to go in mosques. It would have to be an active type shooter situation before they would be allowed to do so. But otherwise, they have free rein to do what they want in America. 

Rick Green [00:22:46] That's got to change. Man, it's got a change and I think it's going to require, it's gonna require a lot of education just on what freedom of religion really is and when something's subverting the public good that it's not protected by the first amendment and that's a big that's a big shift in the American mindset that's going to take time 

David Gaubatz [00:23:03] Well, if we would just listen to them, Rick. Because I asked them to, I asked Islamic leaders to define what Islam is, and they kind of laugh and smirk sometimes. They say, first of all, Islam is not a religion. This is not what my opinion I'm coming up with, this is what I'm told by imams all across America and all through the Middle East for my 45 years plus, they define Islam as a political, economic and military ideology that uses religion as a tool to achieve their goals and their goal is to form an Islamic Ummah nation worldwide under Sharia law. They are the first in their materials and in their lectures to tell their worshipers they are not a religion. So that should be enough for us right there. 

Rick Green [00:23:55] Wow, that's so, yeah, yeah. I mean, that just, yeah in their own words. Is that in your book what you just mentioned? 

David Gaubatz  [00:24:03] It may be in my book. It's in some of the documents that I've got the 13,000 documents. But it's in all kinds of material that I got from the 425 mosques. I've been in 

Rick Green [00:24:15] Man, I want to follow up with you on that. That's exactly the kind of intellectual ammunition that we need to win this. David, we got to have you back. Thank you. Thank you so much for continuing to pursue this, you and your son both. And thank you for coming on air with us and helping to alert the American people and our listeners. I look forward to having you back and having further discussions. I appreciate you, sir. 

David Gaubatz [00:24:39] Thank you Rick and I pass on my best to Frank Gaffney and David Urashamie, they're great people. 

Rick Green [00:24:47] I will absolutely and by the way the book Amazon is at the best place for us to see it. I know it's available on audible as well for those that prefer to listen. 

David Gaubatz [00:24:55] Yes, Amazon is probably the best place. 

Rick Green [00:24:59] Alright folks, you need to get it and it's time for all of us to get up to speed on this thing. Stay with us, we'll be right back. You're listening to The WallBuilders Show. 

Rick Green [00:26:15] Welcome back to The WallBuilders Show. Thanks so much for staying with us, and thanks to David Gaubatz for joining us. Muslim Mafia is the name of the book. You still get it in bookstores everywhere, and I got it on Audible, actually, and man, I'm telling you, we've got to get this information out to people. We need to wake people up to understand what we're dealing with, what we are facing. This will not be the last time that we talk about this here on WallBuilders, where we take on those hottest topics of the day from a biblical, historical, and constitutional perspective. Thanks so much for listening. You've been listening to The WallBuilders Show.