The Man Book Mindset - with Nick Freitas

Masculinity is getting blamed for everything and then repackaged into something ugly, and a lot of young men feel stuck between shame and swagger. We sit down with Nick Freitas, a combat veteran, former legislator, and one of the clearest voices on culture, to talk about The Man Book and the bigger question behind it: what does God say a man is for?

We get concrete fast. Nick explains why “share your toys” can accidentally teach coercion instead of generosity, and how small parenting habits shape a child’s view of private property, responsibility, and authority. We also talk about why strength is not the problem, and why it matters who your strength serves. If your identity is in Christ, then discipline, competence, emotional control, and the ability to protect others are not optional extras. They are part of faithful leadership.

From there, we go deeper into Christian apologetics and why men need an intellectually serious faith that can handle hard questions, not a thin version built on slogans. Nick also hits a nerve with marriage and communication, pushing back on the “yes dear” myth and making the case for respectful, honest disagreement as a skill every husband must develop.

We close with what Nick is seeing on college campuses: the biggest confusion is not policy, but truth and identity, and parents cannot delegate the responsibility of discipleship. If you care about biblical manhood, Christian parenting, and raising leaders who can stand firm, this conversation will give you language and next steps. Subscribe, share this with a parent or young man you know, and leave a review with your biggest takeaway.

Transcript

Manhood And The Guest Setup

SPEAKER_00 0:07

Welcome to the intersection of Faith and Culture. Thanks for joining us today. It's uh of course a place where we take on hot topics of the day from a biblical, historical, and constitutional perspective. We're going to be doing that today with the issue of manhood. And uh what a great guy to have on. Nick Freitas is going to be with us to talk about his new book. It's actually called The Man Book. Uh David Tim, this ought to be fun, man. This is uh this is one of those guys that we've all just kind of recently started getting to know and uh and just super enjoyable guy, but what a what a track record. 10 years as a legislator, um doing a great job, influencing things out there on college campuses. Yeah, uh really somebody that that we want kids to hear from and learn from. Not just kids, us.

SPEAKER_03 0:47

Well, and and to add to his resume, right? I'm a military combat veteran with a green beret, lots of deployments. Um, so all kinds of real-world experience. And also one of my favorite social media follows. Um for people listening right now. If you're not quite putting the face to the name, he's the one that always has the mug at the end. He'll make a comment and then drinks the mug to end it. It's it's he's just one of the best. Follow him on social media. Um, but he is he is somebody that is one of many of the voices that that God has raised up, we would argue, strategically, like in this kind of Esther thought for such a time as this. And he's been able to get on college campuses. God's expanding his horizons in many ways. Uh, I think there's a lot of things yet to come for him and from him, but he is someone that is now addressing one of the big issues. There's young men that are coming to faith, and yet there's a lot of unanswered questions for them. And he wrote a book literally to try to help young men know what it means to be a man. And guys, I I went to the book, I was texting Nick along the way, like, man, this chapter is so good. This was so great. I loved it. And so I messaged you guys and was like, hey, we need to get Nick on the program to talk about his book. It is so good. I I love the fact that he did something to encourage young men. And also, in fairness, this is for young men. Uh, but I would say this is not something that only men could or should read because uh, girls, if you want to know what kind of standards you should have, right? Moms, grandparents, uh, if you want to help your women, your young ladies know what a man should look like, what they should be able to do, this is a really great step-by-step guide in his book. Um, so really excited about having Nick on the program.

SPEAKER_00 2:32

Well, Nick will be with us when we return. Stay with us. You're listening to the Wall Builder Show.

SPEAKER_03 2:43

This is Tim Barton from Wall Builders with another moment from American history. American Patriot Paul Revere wrote to alert Americans of the impending arrival of the British, but he also stopped Patriot leaders Samuel Adams and John Hancock to warn Minim that the British were sticking their execution. Adams and Hancock were staying with the Reverend Jonas Clark in Lexington. When they asked Pastor Clark if his church was ready for the approaching British, he replied, I've trained them for this very hour. They will fight and, if need be, die under the shadow of the House of God. Later that morning, 70 men from his church faced several hundred British in the first battle of the War for Independence. As Pastor Clark affirmed, the militia that morning were the same who filled the pews of the church meeting house on the Sunday morning before. The American church was regularly at the forefront of the fight for liberty. For more information on this pastor and other colonial patriots, go to wallbuilders.com.

SPEAKER_00 3:43

Welcome back to the Wall Builder Show. Thanks for staying with us. Great to have Nick Fretos with us. Do I say your name right? Fritos Free Frito. What do I say, Nick? What's the right way to pronounce it?

SPEAKER_01 3:52

Technically, it's pronounced Freitas, but my drill sergeant taught me to respond to anything close.

SPEAKER_00 3:57

All right. Freitas is the right way to say it. One of our favorites out there, uh, great legislator, author, speaker, all of that good stuff. And new book coming out. And I will say, Tim called me and said, Nick's got a new book coming out. You gotta, you, you gotta get Nick on the program. And then my son-in-law is hitting me up, going, Man, I'm learning all this great stuff in this book by Nick. And he's like, I literally talked about how to get a date, how to, how to cook a steak. I mean, I'm like, man, this is good. I'm impressed. Anyway, so thanks for coming on. We appreciate you being with us.

SPEAKER_01 4:27

No, thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_03 4:28

Well, and Rick, I would, I do want to say it it's not coming out, it's out. I listened to it on Audible. I texted Nick while I was listening to it. And man, it's incredible. Literally, I was encouraged. I was challenged. I was convicted in a couple areas, like, ooh, I need to do a better job there. It is so good and practical, Nick. Incredible job.

SPEAKER_01 4:48

No, well, thank you. Thank you very much. You know, it's funny on the Audible side, they asked me, like, do you want to narrate your own book? I'm like, well, if I want the sarcasm to come through the way I intend, I probably should.

SPEAKER_00 5:00

No, yeah, and I was trying to, I was trying to find my notes for my son-in-law. Yeah, he's he said, I'm not, I'm not doing this to blow smoke up your skirt, Nick. Okay. He said, one of the best this is my son-in-law, one of the best books I've read. Uh, it'll be the one that our guys' group goes through uh next. And and and and just because of your rivalry with Lovell, um, I will let you know they've already gone through Warrior Poet Way. And so if he comes back and says Nick was a lot better, I'll give you some you know ammunition for your uh Well no, that that's actually how you should do it.

SPEAKER_01 5:28

You should start off with Warrior Poet Way and then you should go up to the advanced study with my bo.

Two Ditches Around Masculinity

SPEAKER_00 5:34

I love it. I love it. Well, I I know he's told me a lot that that that he got out of it and and and he basically put it this way, he said and and he had a difficult family situation uh coming up, and and and he said this is this is great for guys that had good dads, but it's really great for guys that didn't have dads that just taught them some of these manhood things in life. And so I'm assuming that was kind of part of your goal to fill that gap of some of these basic things that you need to know to be a good man.

SPEAKER_01 6:01

Well, I I think masculinity has been under attack from the left um for about, you know, well, for decades, but like really the last 20 years have been bad. And it's amazing how many young men have grown up in an environment where they've told they've been told that every instinct that God put in them to be men, to be masculine is wrong, it's bad, it's toxic, it's the source of all the world's ills. And uh and so they're looking for guidance because they see the results. They see the results of of denigrating masculinity as being horrible, universally horrible for society. The problem is that they're not just getting lies from the left, they're also getting lies from some people that would, I guess, colloquially be considered on the right. And the lies coming from the right are hey, everything the left told you, everything the feminist told you, all of that is wrong. You need to be strong, you need to be capable, but you need to be strong and capable so you can sleep with a lot of beautiful women, so you can have a nice house, you can have a car, so you can be powerful, so you can intimidate, so you can get what you want. Essentially, it's the reject toxic masculinity and actually engage in barbarism, right? Like this kind of hedonistic approach, two ditches.

SPEAKER_00 7:04

You're in a ditch either way, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:06

Yeah, and and my whole question is okay, but what does God say about masculinity?

SPEAKER_00 7:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:11

And uh that's what I really wanted to hone in on is this idea that um no masculinity, those those instincts that he gives men are good. Now, there's negative manifestations of them and there's positive manifestations of those instincts. And it's all a question of where do you get your identity and who do you serve? And once you identify those two things, mostly if I get my identity in Christ, I serve him. Well, now, of course, if I want if I want to be a representative of Christ, I better be strong physically, intellectually, emotionally. I better be professionally competent. I better be the sort of men that other men can rely on in a dangerous situation. I better be the sort of guy that when my kid goes to school and says my dad can beat up your dad, there's at least a reasonable chance that that's true, right? Like, so these are the sort of things that um I wanted to go over to encourage young men that, yeah, you want to develop these skill sets, but you got to know who they're in service to.

Strength With Identity In Christ

SPEAKER_03 8:00

Well, Nick, I love the fact that you get into some very uh practical things. Um, and then and in in my mind, some was maybe a little more theoretical, like pitting a card, you were giving practical advice, and I'm like, I don't know when I'm gonna use this, but I kind of want to go try it now. I'm kind of excited about this. Um, but but also you said something. So I have a seven-year-old, a four and a half-year-old. And as I'm listening to the book, I'm going, man, this is such solid information. And every now and then you're dropping these nuggets, and I'm like, oh my gosh. I've never, I've never thought of it quite that way. You explained it so well. So, just as an example for everybody listening, one of the many reasons you should get the book, uh on a quick thought, all of the chapters are short, they're easy, you're so concise, you're so well spoken, and or actually well written, and you just read it well. So you sounded well spoken, but the section on parenting, you talked about how if we're not careful in teaching our kids to share, uh the way that I was perceiving it is you can come across almost like we're raising these entitled socialists because mom and dad always took things from everybody else and gave it to you, and I was like, oh my gosh, I I'm literally like in the process of teaching my kids to share, and I haven't taught them enough about private ownership in the midst of teaching them to share. And so again, you just give such great thoughts and insight along the way. And and the and I'd not to give away too much of the book because we want people to go read it, but when you said it actually was seeing a an encounter, an experience an encounter with a kid, I don't know if you remember this part of the book, coming and screaming and yelling, can you tell part of that story?

Teaching Kids What Sharing Means

SPEAKER_01 9:36

Sure. Um, you know, we our our kids were out there playing with a toy. I think in this case it was my son. He was playing with a toy and it was a brand new toy, and he'd gotten it. He was excited about having it. And it's not like my son has a it's not like my son, who was like six at the time, had a difficult time sharing. It's just that he wanted to play with his toy. And um, the person that wanted it started to get all like pushy and shubby and like, share, you need to share. And and he's like, Well, I want to play with it. And so he runs to, I think he ran to my wife Tina and was like, Luke's not sharing. And she looks her dad in the eye and goes, Yeah, he doesn't have to. And there's a lot of parents, well, isn't it important to teach your kids to share? It's like, yeah, as long as they understand what sharing is. Sharing is a voluntary choice that you make with your property in order to give it to somebody else. And you can share for altruistic reasons, you can share because you think it would be the nice thing to do for another person. You can share for cooperative reasons. I'm gonna share my toys because then you'll share your toys. And now we're engaging in voluntary transaction. I said, but the moment you teach your kids that they are compelled by force to share, it's not sharing. What you've done is you've taken you've taught your kid that the moment they don't get what they want, run to an authority figure who's gonna use force or coercion in order to give you what you want. I said, Yeah, those kids grow up and and they become members of Congress, right? And so we we need to teach it within the proper context. Here are the benefits of sharing, but here's the benefits of of being nice and respectful. And no, you don't have to share your property with someone that's being a little brat or a little punk or is gonna break it. And when you put it into that context, all of a sudden it's like, oh yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

SPEAKER_00 11:13

Wow, that's good.

SPEAKER_03 11:14

And and there were so many guys, I'm telling you, there were so many chapters like that where there were many things I was like, I feel like I kind of know this topic. And then you drop this nugget, and I'm like, that's such a good thought. Was there a specific chapter that you enjoyed more than others, or are there some that that you were more excited about thinking that man, this is something people really need to know?

Disagreeing Well In Marriage

SPEAKER_01 11:35

Um, I I like the I like the chapters on how to effectively defend your faith. And one of the reasons why that's so important to me is because I was raised in the church. I have always considered myself a Christian, but there were many years there where I wasn't living that way. And and the reason why is because I found a lot of the arguments for Christianity intellectually unsatisfying. And then on top of the intellectual component, I also saw a lot of Christian men who I didn't respect. It was almost like they demanded respect because they were Christians. It's like, no, you should be worthy of respect if you are gonna claim Christ. And so talking about this whole idea of if you're gonna claim Christ, well, then you better be living and acting and and performing in a way that resonates that. And the intellectual component, it's one of the reasons why I love wall builders. I love the intellectual arguments you make for the principles which I feel are true, but I want to know are true. I want to be able to, I want to be able to effectively articulate and defend these positions. And if you believe that that the word of God is true, well then it has, then then it's equipped you with all the abilities that you need to be able to effectively defend it. You just need to dig in, you need to understand, you need to understand context. And so learning about Christian apologetics and learning how to effectively provide an intellectually rigorous uh defense of my faith, that was huge, not just for the impact it had on other people as I was having these discussions. It was huge in my walk with Christ. Because now all of a sudden, if you if you think about any meaningful relationship you have with another person, there's an emotional component, right? You might be attracted to them or you might like some of the same stuff. But when you talk about really meaningful relationships, there is always a deep intellectual bond there. There's the ability to talk through with this other person meaningful things and discuss challenges and to work through problems. And that's the relationship God wants to have with us. But if if you treat Christianity as if it's a fad diet, right, or it's oh, it's this emotional thing that I do because it makes me feel happy, as opposed to a genuine relationship, well, then you're missing, you're you're missing this entire component, which is absolutely critical. And so going through the chapter of explaining my experience with that and really finding like just the richness of what it means to embrace your Christian faith and your relationship with God, that that was a that was a fun chapter, um, a very rewarding chapter to write. Um They're like, Nick, you wrote a chapter on how to defend or how to win an argument with your wife. They're like, so this is a fiction book. And uh and I said, no, I that I'm actually very serious about that chapter because I think one of the worst pieces of advice married men give to young men as they're about to become married is, oh, don't argue with your wife. Just I'm gonna teach you two words, the key to a happy marriage. Yes, dear. No, that's not. That's how to destroy your marriage. Um, because you should lead, you should be the man and you should be wise. And so if you disagree with your wife, you should be capable of having a good conversation with her about whatever the problem is and the challenges. And you should be able to articulate those reasons in a way that she can respect. And oh, by the way, if you're dating a woman right now where you can have a reasonable discussion with her, for the love of God, don't marry her.

unknown 14:45

Right.

Campus Questions Shift To Manhood

SPEAKER_01 14:46

Like, you know, and so I I that was another chapter that I really enjoyed that people get kind of a kick out of, but I'm deadly serious that this is this is so important about understanding fut or effective communication with your wife, because that's the most important earthly relationship you're gonna have with another human being, and you better be able to discuss things and work through things and to do so in a mutually respectful manner.

SPEAKER_00 15:08

Nick, how much are you getting to to dive into some of these subjects when you're at at the campuses and doing some of the tabling events you've been doing?

Parents Cannot Delegate Responsibility

SPEAKER_01 15:15

I'm actually that's another reason why I wanted to write the book, was because 10 years ago or five years ago, when I would speak to students, it was all about politics, right? I'm a I was a state legislator at the time. They wanted to know about tax policy or communism or whatever. And I still get those questions. But it's amazing how many more of the questions now are about being a father, being a uh a husband, uh, about your your your your faith, how do you effectively defend and live out your faith? And so this is in in in one way you might look at that is that's a little bit concerning that we have so many young men that don't know the answers to these questions. But another way to look at it is oh no, the harvest is ripe. We have young men who recognize that something is wrong with the world. And instead of trying to solve that just through political questions, they're actually getting to the fundamentals about their relationship with God, about the potential relationship with their spouse one day, about their duties and roles and responsibility as a man, as a husband, as a father. And so this is the time for men to be able to offer that sort of discipleship that is desperately needed.

SPEAKER_03 16:15

Nick, along those lines, uh obviously for our audience, we have a lot of parents, a lot of grandparents, a lot of the Christian school, homeschool world, et cetera. And so I'm curious, knowing that we want to equip people to disciple the next generation, what are some themes that that and I I'm asking this knowing you've done several tabling events for Turning Point USA recently? Um, and Charlie used to tell us that when he would go from campus to campus, he heard a lot of the same questions. Um, and usually there were themes behind it. What are the themes that you are hearing that you think are the best discipleship opportunities to make sure parents and grandparents are pouring into their kids and their grandkids to have the right answers for these questions?

The Real Crisis Is Identity

SPEAKER_01 16:59

Well, the the first thing you need to understand, and Vody Bacham said this best, he goes, you can't send your kids to Caesar for their education to be surprised when they come home as Romans. And um, I I say this as a member, uh I say this as someone who sat on the education committee in the Virginia House of Delegates. I say this as someone who was the subcommittee chairman on higher education, I say this as somebody that regularly interacts with college students on campuses all over the country. Um, I see a lot of students that were raised by Christian that that the parents think they're the ones that raise their kids. No, they didn't. The public school system did. And now the university system is. And when those students come come home with questions to mom and dad, let's say they still have a good relationship with mom and dad, mom and dad get scared and intimidated by the questions. And instead of engaging with their kids, they say, We didn't raise you that way. Or they say you just need to pray more. And what I would tell parents is that one of the most one of the most upsetting things I have learned is the number of Christian parents that didn't raise their kids in the faith, didn't raise their kids with their values. What they did was they taught their kids an authority structure. And the authority structure that they taught their kids was when you live under my house, you follow my rules. Okay, great. I'm sure you had good Christian rules. You don't they don't live under your house anymore. They're on the they're in the college dorm. They're in a different world, they're off my own. And what they what you taught them was is you listen to what the authorities say. And well, the authority on the college campus at University of Seattle is telling them to come and spit and yell and scream at me for two hours straight. And they think that's an argument. And so the the thing I would tell parents is understand something. You can and should delegate authority to proper resources and proper um experts and whatnot in order to assist in the education of your children. I was very happy to use the curriculum that wall builders designed in order to help teach my kids about American history. Why? Because I knew it was coming from a place that was rooted in my faith, but was also academically and intellectually rigorous. And so I didn't mind delegating authority to wall builders to help me in that process. But parents, you can delegate authority, you cannot delegate responsibility. It is your responsibility to raise your children in the way that they should go. And if you are regularly and routinely taking those kids and putting them into an environment with different authority figures that will challenge and question your faith, that will mock and denigrate your faith, that will mock and denigrate your values, you are causing confusion in your children. And then they go off into the world and they're no longer equipped to fight for the values that you thought you taught them because you didn't. Now, the good news is this there has never been more resources. There have never been more people that are willing to come alongside and assist you. And you would be shocked at how God blesses imperfect yet faithful attempts to raise your children the way that they should go. I one of the greatest things I love about homeschooling and the experience I've had in raising my kids is that I love being around my kids. People, oh, wait until you get to the teenage years. Teenage years were the easiest. And it's not because we didn't expose them to different ideas or concepts. We challenged them in their faith every chance we got because we wanted them to be equipped. But if you want to know the common theme, what's going on in college campuses with kids, it's confusion about the truth, about the concept of truth, confusion about identity. It's not confusion about socialism versus capitalism. That is like seven questions down. No, it's about who am I? Who do I belong to? Where do I get my identity? Is identity is truth objective? Those are the fundamental questions that are informing all of the other ridiculousness that you see going on.

Why Small Habits Shape A Nation

SPEAKER_00 20:35

Man, I'm uh I'm just thrilled that you're out there able to answer those questions with those students and and hopefully you know get this book in as many of those hands as well. David?

SPEAKER_02 20:44

You know, one of the things, Nick, that that I'm loving about this is all these little things you're focused on, even going back to kids sharing. And you're right, so often parents say, now go share with them. Wait a minute, that's private property. That's a choice to share. There's not a mandate to share. And so those are little things. But what I love is if you grow up with that, you're not gonna buy any part of socialism when you hear it. I mean, these are all little ideas that grow into big things, and oh, you shouldn't have an argument with your spouse. Wait a minute, Bible says iron sharpens iron. If you can't contend for your beliefs, then you're not gonna be worth anything in a classroom when a professor says something crazy and you just you bow down. And you know, I'm I'm going through all this, and and and it's just so many cultural things that come from these little habits that you're focused on. And those are the cultural things that will erase a generation that will fight for a country, fight for a civilization, fight for a structure that we've had. You know, we're celebrating 250, but not if we keep going with the the kind of thinking we've got today. That's another 20 years, maybe 30. But it's so cool. The stuff you're hitting, these are such core principles, and they're not just for individuals. When individuals start thinking this way, it'll change the whole country.

SPEAKER_01 21:58

We can win this thing in one generation. Because we have more kids. We just have to take more responsibility for raising them in the way that they should go.

Patriot Academy Leadership Invitation

Biblical Strength And Final Takeaways

SPEAKER_00 22:04

It's called The Man Book, a point-by-point guide to sucking it up and getting the job done. Nick, God bless you, man. Thanks for coming on with us today. Thank you all very much, and thank you for what you do. Stay with us, folks. We'll be right back on The Wall Builder Show. Have you noticed the vacuum of leadership in America? We're looking around for leaders of principle to step up, and too often, no one is there. God is raising up a generation of young leaders with a passion for impacting the world around them. They're crying out for the mentorship and leadership training they need. Patriot Academy was created to meet that need. Patriot Academy graduates now serve in state capitals around America, in the halls of Congress, in business, in the film industry, in the pulpit, in every area of the culture. They're leading effectively and impacting the world around them. Patriot Academy is now expanding across the nation, and now's your chance to experience this life-changing week that trains champions to change the world. Visit Patriotacademy.com for dates and locations. Our core program is still for young leaders 16 to 25 years old, but we also now have a Citizen Track for Adults. So visit the website today to learn more. Help us fill the void of leadership in America. Join us in training champions to change the world at Patriotacademy.com. Thanks for staying with us. Welcome back to the Wall Builder Show. Man, what a what a fun interview, guys. And how important this is to get if we don't get manhood right, if we don't get fatherhood right, uh, we're not gonna make America great again. I mean, this is at the heart of it.

SPEAKER_02 23:36

You know, we we've gone through a generation of of what they call toxic masculinity, where they're just being a man was toxic somehow to the culture. And and so we've started raising generational whips, but I was thinking even during Nick's interview, okay, you're Jesus, you're in the temple, you see something that really ticks you off, and that is that they've turned the house of prayer into a house of commerce. So you braid together a a set of whips and you go through and you overturn private property, you destroy private property, you chase people out. There is not a single indication that anybody fought back against Jesus. And at that point, he's just a man walking through the temple with a whip, and he's just letting them have it. And there's no indication of that ever being toxic masculinity. That exercise of strength that Jesus did is what set an example for the rest of us to know that hey, there are things worth fighting for. And so I think that's what Nick hits here is pushing back on that culture that says, hey, you shouldn't stand up and fight for things, and there are things you should stand and fight for.

SPEAKER_03 24:38

Dad, I completely agree with everything you're saying. I do want to point out, and I I you would agree. Nick would agree when you stand up and fight for what matters, there will be opposition. So even though the Bible doesn't give us examples of people in the temple opposing Jesus, uh, there was a group of religious leaders that led to Jesus being crucified because it did create opposition, but he did it in in a godly way. The Bible says that we can be angry and sin not, and and there are times that we should be angry with evil. The fear of the Lord is to hate evil, and and it takes a masculine man to be able to oppose and stop evil at times, which is exactly what Nick was talking about.

SPEAKER_02 25:19

And you know, even when Moses came down off the mountain after receiving the Ten Commandments, and there they built a golden calf, and he just went physical on them. He went, he launched, and you know, the Bible doesn't condemn that because it was something that needed to be done. And there are times for that exercise of strength, Tim, as you said, it did lead to opposition later. But the the wimpy man kind of thing has got to go away. It's not biblical, and if we're gonna restore a biblical nation, this book that Nick has written is is just you know, I think Tim, you said there's fifty short chapters in it, fifty pieces of wisdom that help put us back in the right direction.

SPEAKER_00 25:54

The man book, a point-by-point guide to sucking it up and getting the job done. You can get it on Audible. Uh, Tim said that was fun to actually listen to to Nick read the story. So you you got his sarcasm in in the audio audible part, huh?

SPEAKER_03 26:08

Oh man, yes, because and there's a couple parts where he pauses to make like the sarcastic comment along the way. I loved it. Uh the book itself would have been great. I spend a lot of time behind the windshield. And so listening on Audible is my preferred method for going through a lot of content. But the sarcasm from Audible is worth the listen on Audible. Otherwise, the book I would highly recommend.

SPEAKER_00 26:30

So during the pauses, you just imagined him taking a drink from the mug. That that's probably what happened as as you were listening to the book. All right, we appreciate Nick coming on today. We encourage you to check out the book. Again, it's called The Man Book. Appreciate you listening to the Wall Bover Show.