America’s Founding Formula - with Eric Metaxas

America’s 250th birthday is more than a party date, it’s a stress test for our national memory. We ask a blunt question: what actually made the United States free, stable, and resilient, and why are so many cultural gatekeepers determined to tell the founding as a story of nothing but oppression. From a biblical, historical, and constitutional perspective, we dig into the principle that shaped the Revolution: rights come from God, not government, and the purpose of government is to protect those God-given rights.

Then we’re joined by Eric Metaxas to talk about his new book, Revolution. Eric explains why he set out to tell the whole Revolutionary War story in one place, without the modern “meh” tone that drains courage and meaning from the past. We explore the founders’ own spiritual framing, the repeated references to Providence, and the Exodus and Sinai covenant imagery that even the more secular founders understood. Whether you share that worldview or not, Eric makes the case that we owe the founders the basic honesty of seeing the founding the way they saw it.

We also get specific about the war’s moral stakes, including brutality that pushed fence-sitters toward independence and sobering facts about prisoner of war conditions. Finally, we connect the past to the present: how a nation drifts when memory erodes, why this moment feels like an existential crisis, and what ordinary citizens can do to recover the American spirit with truth, prayer, and civic action.

If this conversation helps you, subscribe, share it with a friend who loves history, and leave a review so more people can find it. What part of the founding story do you think Americans most need to relearn right now?

Transcript

Rick Green [00:00:07] Welcome to the intersection of faith and culture. It's the WallBuilders Show, taking on the hot topics of the day from a biblical, historical and constitutional perspective, a topic we've talked about quite a bit, but it's going to continue to be a big topic the rest of the year. Since this, the 250th day of the nation is where we came from as a nation. What was it that created America as the greatest nation in the history of mankind? What's the formula and what are those secret ingredients? Rick Green here with David Barton and Tim Barton later in the program. Eric Metaxas will join us talking about his new book, Revolution, of course, David and Tim, a topic very familiar to us here at, at WallBuilders, but love Eric Metaxas' books and just the perspective he takes on them and super excited to learn about this one. 

David Barton [00:00:50] You know, I was thinking about this last night and the revolution aspect, it's kind of a revolution but it really was more of a principle driven thing. There's revolutions all over the world and they happen all the time and they happened because somebody different wants to be in charge or because whatever. We were really principle driven in what we did and as I was thinkin' about this last night, 250 years, it struck me that we've gone through some 80-year cycles because if you go back to the American Revolution, George Washington, that's when at that point in time We won liberty for the first time. We're a free, independent nation. We have a Constitution, Declaration, principles, we have liberty. But then it slides down over the next two generations. And we ended up in the Civil War. And here comes Lincoln and he brings a rebirth of liberty going back to the documents he wrote and talked about. And it really did a rebirth liberty. And we get back to a solid America again. And then we go through another couple of generations and we get to World War II. And at that point in time, FDR, FDR literally has to defend liberty and save liberty for us from all these bad guys who have now attacked us and are after us in the world. And here we are now two generations later and we're having to renew liberty and it really is I think a historic time. I mean what we've got going here what we've seen in the last couple years and the change of attitude of people and the way they look the American Revolution you know just even five, eight, ten years ago in most places the American Revolution well those are those Founding Father guys and you know they were all the bad guys, all the all the adjectives were signed to them by universities. And that's just not the tone right now. There's something really positive happening across the nation in so many communities big and small regarding this and hopefully this is going to be a significant time where that we restore and regain some of that liberty 

Tim Barton [00:02:34] I think, Dad, there's no doubt that that is a general tone from so many American people and certainly the people that we interact with. But we know, actually in just a day or two, the Smithsonian is gonna come out with a lot of their history of America and the American Revolution and Some of our friends in DC have given us a heads up, like, hey just in case you guys want to be able to talk about this later. You know what? We might have been invited to help with some other initiatives and projects going on and rebuttal to this, but the big picture is that Smithsonian is coming out and the way they are celebrating the 250 years of American independence is not going back to the principles of liberty, the principles of freedom, the religion and morality, the idea that the Founders believed that our rights came from our Creator, they came from God, they didn't come from government, that no tyrant should be able to rule over man and that government's primary purpose was to protect our God-given rights. Not to determine if we had them or dictate what they were. All of that being said, the Smithsonian, literally this week, they're going to release their kind of 250 in America and it's gonna be really about the impact of slavery. America was evil because this is what America was birthed on, it was oppression and et cetera, et cetera. You know, all the narratives we've been hearing since you can go back to the 1619 Project when it came out in 2019 and all of that nonsense, Part of... part of what we did in our American Story book, the American Story: the Beginnings was a rebuttal of some of the nonsense coming out from 1619. And so honestly, we can just recycle those same rebuttals because it's the same nonsensical stuff they are bringing up again, and instead of celebrating a nation that has been the most free, the most stable, the most prosperous and the most benevolent nation anywhere in the world, not just for the last 250 years, maybe ever. Instead of celebrating the good that came from America, we know that academics want to continue to criticize this. And again, even from the Smithsonian. So Dad, I agree with you that I think so many Americans, they're so tired of the woke, of the criticism, really unwarranted, where in Marxism, people are saying that you're just evil, you're an oppressor because you're a Christian, because you are male, because you're white, whatever they want to throw out there. There are so many Americans that are so tired of this woke nonsense and they want to celebrate it. It doesn't mean that the academics aren't going the opposite direction. And they're going to double down on this. So it really does matter that this summer we spend time relearning the truth of American history. So if you don't have the American Story: the Beginnings would highly recommend that. And of course we have an entire series coming out. We actually, God willing the end of this month. We'll have a new book out on the Signers of the Declaration. It should be available before the 4th of July, and we will definitely highlight that as we get closer. The book is called Lives, Fortunes, and Sacred Honor, the Signer of the Declaration, and we do a short bio on all 56 of them to reintroduce them to American people, and part of why it matters, if you know their stories, it's easier to identify the lies and the nonsensical attacks when they come, because we know their story. So this is really a time to dive in and relearn that story. And of course, we're excited about our friend, Eric Metaxas and his new book because he is gonna tackle this very topic. And based on what he's done with Martin Luther and Bonhoeffer and some of these other books, this probably is not gonna be a thin book. This is probably gonna be a massive collection telling a detailed story. So we are very excited about his work. 

Rick Green [00:06:15] Yeah, man, it's great timing. And like you said, I mean, there's the, the academic world loves to put their spin on this. I am so thankful. I just happened to come across a couple of days ago, I was looking for some good videos to play at a, at a celebration. I was speaking out for the, for the 250th and, and, man the stuff that the, even the federal agencies and the 250th committee and all that from three or four years ago, that was so woke and so leftist, it was so bad guys. All the videos were just so bad. I'm so thankful that President Trump put good people in. That he gave you guys and a bunch of our other friends such good access and influence on what's going on because it, you know, you got to go back to the Bing Crosby song, man. You got to accentuate the positive. We can tell the good year of celebration. This is our birthday as a nation. Let's talk about good stuff as well. So anyway, this book, I think from, uh, Eric Metaxas probably is going to do that, but also sell the bad, the ugly, but the overall story is amazing. One of the most incredible stories in in history for sure. So, Eric Metaxas, when we return, you're listening to the WallBuilders Show. 

Rick Green [00:08:23] Welcome back to the WallBuilders Show, Revolution. I love the title of the book and I love the author, Eric Metaxas back with us, man. Good to have you back on Wall Builder, bro. 

Eric Metaxas [00:08:31] Excited to be with you, it's important to be with like-minded people, it good for the soul, thank you. 

Rick Green [00:08:39] Well, not just in, in person, I'm telling you, man,  all of the controversies in our own movement and with what people call the right, which I think is a weird definition now, but, your posts and your show and the things that the positions you've taken and the stances you've taken against so many of the poisons and evils that are now coming from. I don't even like saying our side because I don't think they really are anymore, but I just want to say thank you, man, you, you've, you have offered wisdom and discernment. Honestly, you and Jeremy Boreing right now, I think are two of the most important voices for our movement because you're bringing sanity to a lot of this conflict. I know it's not our topic today, but I hadn't got to talk to you in a while. So I just wanted to want to tell you thank you. 

Eric Metaxas [00:09:17] It's all related, isn't it? It's related. My book on the American Revolution is kind of like, how have we drifted? We need to know our story. It's not optional. It is vital. Vital. I mean, that's why I wrote the book, because I realized most of us either don't know the story or forgot parts of it or whatever. And I mean the reason, Rick, that I wrote it is because I looked around and I thought, you know... There's a lot of books on the revolution, but there's not one book that tells like the whole story. I said, like, I got to tell the whole story so you don't have to read 12 books. Here it is. And honestly, it is the greatest story. It's so, I mean, it's not The Greatest Story Ever Told, but it's like, you know, second greatest. 

Rick Green [00:10:03] Yeah. 

Eric Metaxas [00:10:04] The birth of this country is just almost an unbelievable miracle in history. And we need to understand that because that's real. That's not just, you know, patriotic hyperbole. 

Rick Green [00:10:14] That's right, man. And, and you're, you know, the 250th, obviously perfect time, we're, you know 40 years out from Reagan warning us of quote, an eradication of the American memory that would lead to an erosion of the American spirit, that's clearly happened. So you're bringing back the memory in order to help get the spirit back. And, we got a lot of people right now that, you know, apparently America is the bad guys in history, you know, um, they've got this negative black pill twist on everything we've ever done as a nation. So I think starting where you are and, and even telling the story of the Revolution in simply a truthful, but passionate and inspiring way is needed. 

Eric Metaxas [00:10:48] That's... I definitely couldn't have said it better myself. That's exactly what my goal was. And it's funny too, because when you tell it straight, it is the most inspiring story. We need to hear this. And what we've been hearing for the last 40 years has been a lot of kind of negative blather or slightly negative blather. And I thought for the 250th, we need the whole story in a kind of definitive way. And honestly, I forced myself to watch the Ken Burns PBS thing, you know, And it's shocking. That they managed to make the American Revolution seem like, meh, not that big of a deal. 

Rick Green [00:11:25] Yeah. 

Eric Metaxas [00:11:26] You have to actually work hard to make a great story seem, eh, not-that-great. And that they did it, though. They managed to succeed to make the American Revolution be like, ah, you know, who won? Like, ah, I don't know. Like, it's kind of sad, but you know it happened. I mean, it would be like if you watched Rocky or Braveheart in a version that you're like, Yeah, it's it's unclear who the good guy is. Like really? 

Rick Green [00:11:52] That's crazy! 

Eric Metaxas [00:11:53] You're telling the story that story in that way So this book is meant to be an antidote to all that. And listen, the thing is, It's not like I mean, you know that I'm a radically conservative Christian, but the book is just a standard history book. You can give it to anybody. They don't have to be on the same page as we are because it's true. What I'm writing is not making a case for what we believe is just telling the truth. When you tell the truth, you tell this story without skewing it, it makes its own case. And that's, to me, it was overwhelming, I have to say, writing it, researching it. It was overwhelming to see how God's hand is involved in this country and how the Founders were motivated by God and godly principles. I mean, we kind of know that, but when you actually see for yourself the way I did writing the book, I was overwhelmed. I was absolutely, I said this needs, every American needs to know this. This is. This has been taken away from us and we need to know it and, you know, people who maybe aren't sure of it or don't know the details, I wrote this book for them. It's like, here it is. You tell me what you think. Like, it's pretty clear that they understood what they were doing was like a mandate from God to create a government where the people govern themselves. They don't look to a man like King George III as their king. They look to God as their King, the way the ancient Israelites did in the Sinai Covenant. That's the narrative and they all got it, including Jefferson and Franklin. They all understood this is what we're doing. It's never been done in human history, but we're doing it now. I mean, that's a big deal and we need to know that. 

Rick Green [00:13:25] Well, and then to tell it in the, you know, like the good, the bad, and the ugly, all of it, we learned from, from all of it and the stories are just so overwhelming. It's not like, you, if you had one instance of, of say, you know, the hand of Providence being seen or one of the Founders saying that, and that's your whole story is nothing but that, then you could go meh, but man, it's just over and over and over again.

Eric Metaxas [00:13:44] Not only that, but they said it. I mean, George Washington could not shut up about how we have seen Providence over and over and this is the man who lived it. He knew it. And he's the one they say he was a deist. We know he was not. And if only because of those statements, but it's like this guy knew this is a sacred cause. If we honor God, we have a covenant relationship with God. If we honor God he will honor us. And the big thing that comes out of my research, which I really didn't know before, is that the British were really wicked. I mean, it's not just like they were the other side, they were barbaric. The way they fought the war, I mean our men would surrender, they would bayonet them to death. I mean you see this over and over. This is like the Japanese in World War II, like the Nazis. 

Rick Green [00:14:32] Right. What they did to Dr. Warren, Dr. Joseph Warren, I mean, he's horrific. Yeah. 

Eric Metaxas [00:14:37] I mean, you know this stuff. I didn't know it the way you know it. And so doing the research, I was astonished, but it's over and over. It's not just a few instances. It's the entire war. The British were wicked and they were really not just, I mean the Americans were like radically Christians. Most of the leaders were radically Christians, the British were not just not Christians, they were anti-Christian. They were they were irreligious, godless, mocking the faith of you know, the Boston, Massachusetts Christians, I mean, it really is, I had not seen that before, that they really were, if you're watching this movie, you'd say, oh, those are the bad guys, like they're really bad. What they do, the way they treat their prisoners, the way the treat those who surrender, what they do to win, the barbarism, that's what pushed a lot of people on the fence over to the American side, because they said, these are evil people. They're hiring the Hessians and the Native Americans to terrorize and torture the civilian population. You think, those are the bad guys. Our side would not do that. And if anybody did do that, Washington would come down on them like a pile of bricks because he was absolutely committed to fighting this war in a way that honored God. And I did not know that, Rick. You know that stuff, but I'm telling you, most Americans, we don't know that. So the more I researched it, the more thought. I have not known the depth of the story or the spiritual nature of it. It's just astonishing to me. But it's also very inspiring. It makes me happy that we're at a moment where people will get to know this stuff. 

Rick Green [00:16:10] Well, I was trying to, I can't remember the number, but, but one of the grievances in the declaration is, is, as about what you just mentioned, you know, I'm basically siccing the savages on them and that we're barbaric. I mean, there's a whole grievance in the, in the Declaration about that. Listen, Eric, I know you well enough to know you don't, you don't write a book like this just to tell the story. You, you want people to have a takeaway and you want them to act on it. And, and I'm assuming it has something to do with reviving that American patriotism. What do you want to take away from The Revolution, from the birth of America? 

Eric Metaxas [00:16:37] Well Honestly, I was overwhelmed writing this book. Now, sounds like, again, hyperbole. I knew that I wanted to tell the story and tell it straight, right? I wanna tell the stories straight so the generation of Americans can say, if I read this book, I got the whole story. Everything that's important is in this book because there's so many books out there, so many. I just wanna put it all in one book and obviously I wanna be readable and fun. There's crazy, funny stuff. There's amazing heroes. And some despicable villains. But in the course of writing it, when I started, people said, what's your angle? I said, I have no angle. I just wanna tell the story of America and the birth, 250 years ago. But the angles that came up make you realize this was a spiritual birth, that God's hand was in this. This was not just some nation. And the reason the book is titled Revolution and not American Revolution is I said there has never been a revolution. That was a real, true revolution that succeeded, that gave the people what it claimed. The French Revolution is a bloodbath. The French revolution fails miserably. They say, oh, we want equality, fraternity, and liberty. We want liberty. Guess what they got? They got a dictator, an emperor. They got rid of the king, and then he's replaced with a blood bath followed by a dictator emperor. In our revolution, which is the only successful true revolution, which is why the book's called Revolution, is we got rid of one monarch and turned to the Monarch, God, directly. It's going back to the Sinai covenant. So people need to get that that's real. That's what the Founders understood. This is not some Christian version. This is what the Founders understood. And when on August 1st, Samuel Adams gives a speech on the steps of Independence Hall. He says, we have this day restored the Sovereign. In other words, we had a bad sovereign, we had King George III, we restored the True Sovereign. So we're going back to the Sinai covenant 3,000 years earlier where we get rid of Pharaoh, we come out of Egypt, and we look to God as our King. That's the narrative. And even the most, how do I put it, the most secular, the least religious figures like Benjamin Franklin, Thomas Jefferson, they understood this narrative. There was no doubt that they got this when they created a seal for the country. Franklin comes up with the Israelites in the Sinai.  

Rick Green [00:19:07] Yeah, that's right. 

Eric Metaxas [00:19:09] Uh, and Jefferson comes up with the passing through the Red Sea. I mean, ladies and gentlemen, everyone understood what this was. And so to me, that the takeaway is to understand that our founding is it's inescapable that God's hand is in it and that all of those men understood that. That's to me the key. That's how they saw it, even if you don't see it that way, you need to do them the honor of seeing how they saw it. And when you see it most people are gonna be convinced, yep, they got it right and I have not been taught this, you know in school or I haven't heard this on TV. This is very important that we kind of get back to What is what is? What is our DNA ? When, you know... 

Rick Green [00:19:51] Yes. 

Eric Metaxas [00:19:51] When, Lincoln I start my book with you know quoting Lincoln. In my introduction that Lincoln says we were a nation conceived in liberty. Conceived... There's a moment of conception in liberty and dedicated proposition, all men are created equal, what about this conception? What about the DNA in that moment of conception? Have we followed that? And the fact is, to some extent we have, but lately we've gone off and we need to know what is the DNA? When we started, what was the idea of liberty in the mind of these men that gave their lives, their fortunes, their sacred honor? So I wanna kind of get people back to understanding this is, this is the actual version. This is what the Founders saw, which has been secularized. I don't need to tell you, I don't need to tell WallBuilders, it's been secularized. So I said, I want to write a book that kind of encapsulates it in a way that's very readable that you could give to anybody who maybe isn't where we are and they they'll get it. So that was the goal. 

Rick Green [00:20:49] Revolution by Eric Metaxas, anywhere books are sold. Um, Eric, can we get it back? Let me, let me just, let's close out with that. Can we recapture that American spirit and that foundation you're talking about. 

Eric Metaxas [00:21:00] I, Eric Metaxas, have no doubt that that's God's will and that we will get it back. But we are in a war, a spiritual war, it's the third existential crisis of our history. The Revolution, things didn't look so good God's hand was with us, we prevailed. Civil War, it wasn't looking so good, God's Hand was with we prevailed. We're in the third existential crisis. So it is a war. Its a spiritual war. It's a strange thing we're going through but I believe God is with us and part of my writing this book is to recall us to what do we need to know to fight, to pray, to, you know, and I don't mean fight with weapons. I'm talking about fight as citizens for what is right and true. To me, that's why Longfellow wrote Paul Revere's Rite in 1860. He said, how are we gonna get through this existential crisis? We need to look back to 1775. And the reason I wrote this book is to look in the same way to 1775. We need understand who we are and we need to reanimate the spirit that got us through the first existential crisis for the third. So I'm seriously hopeful. I don't just say that, but we have to understand it's a fight. But you know what? God called us to the fight. He made us for the fight, so I am genuinely hopeful that by prayer and all of the men in the Revolution, they looked to God. They said, if we look to God and honor God, He will give us the victory. If we fight our way, we will lose. That's where we are today. 

Rick Green [00:22:28] Mmm, man beautiful! Brother, I never ever thought I didn't even realize Longfellow’s poem was that long after. But the fact that it was you know, right like you're saying right before the Civil War to remind us who we are. 

Eric Metaxas [00:22:40] Yeah,. 

Rick Green [00:22:40] Great stuff brother. God bless you Eric Metaxas. Thank you for coming on, man. 

Eric Metaxas [00:22:45] Thank you.

Rick Green [00:23:53] Welcome back to The WallBuilders Show. Thanks for staying with us. Thanks to Eric Metaxas, new book Revolution. Of course, wherever books are sold, as we're back here with David and Tim, the new book you guys have coming out, when do you think it'll be ready? You said July 4th is kind of the kickoff? 

Tim Barton [00:24:07] Well, hopefully we're going to have it available. The printers right now think that they're going to be able to ship it back to us the week of June 16. But given the nature of printing in that world, it could be another week. So we should have it in hand at least one week, if not two weeks before the 4th of July. And so we're definitely going to keep this at the forefront of people's information as it gets closer. And then wallbuilders.com is the best place to go initially. I'm sure Amazon is gonna pick it up and they're gonna sell it as well. But a lot of times they wanna see if there's a demand before they get it. And then they wanna jump on board. So at this point, wallbuilders.com and then probably after the first week or two it's released, it'll be available on Amazon and then lots of other places as well, but initially wallbuilders.com is the best place to go and we'll keep people updated through our radio program and even our podcast and other things as we go along. 

David Barton [00:25:02] And you know, Eric was talking about how different America was from Great Britain, how Great Britain really was vicious in many ways. And I've just been working on this week some of the things that happened with the POW camps. Americans and British both had POW camps, but in the British POW camp, they had somewhere between 25 and 32,000 American prisoners and more than half of them died in those camps, just the abuse, the sickness, the mistreatment. And it's like nearly none died in the American camps. As a matter of fact, when we won the Battle of Saratoga in 1777, we captured 6,000 British prisoners. And we told them, if you guys will promise not to shoot at us anymore, we'll let you go home and be with your families and you won't have to be in any prison. And we took 6,000 British prisoners and they gave their word. And so we believe their word and it's just totally different. In the American Revolution, you're three times less likely be killed as a soldier in the middle of a firefight than if you're made a prisoner of war. And incarcerated by the British. So there's such a moral difference between us and the story just is not told well, and hopefully that's gonna be some of the stuff that's coming out over the next few months as part of the American story. 

Rick Green [00:26:10] David, as we're closing out, do you think that has anything to do with God's blessing on the country and just that we, we had more of a moral compass from the very beginning? 

David Barton [00:26:18] Yeah, there's no question we added moral compass and that's indisputably documented and that that's gonna be some stuff that they're gonna put out through the National Park Service over coming weeks. So it's gonna publicly available with all the documentation and footnotes to it. 

Rick Green [00:26:33] What a great year to cover these topics. Be sure and get on our email list folks, wallbuilders.com as the new materials come out and we'll of course have more guests on to talk about this very same subject. Thanks so much for listening. You've been listening to The WallBuilders Show.