Stronger Men, Stronger Families - with Josh McPherson

A lot of men feel the pull to be strong, but they’re not sure what strength is for or who it’s meant to serve. We talk with Josh McPherson about a definition of biblical manhood that cuts through the noise: strength that dies to comfort, refuses cowardice, and shows up as protection, provision, leadership, and love. Along the way, we unpack a simple but demanding pledge and why power isn’t the enemy, misuse and abdication are.

We also get practical about Christian fatherhood and leadership training. Josh explains why your family is your “resume,” why ministry success means being respected by the people who know you best, and how to raise boys with a clear path into manhood. That leads to gospel-centered rites of passage, the Project Man Card framework, and the idea that manhood isn’t a destination you arrive at once, but a daily starting line with real tests and real responsibility.

Then the lens widens to what’s happening in Washington state through Gray City Church: extended gatherings, a sense of revival aimed at reformation, bold moves in Christian education, and a big vision for building leaders. We also hear about doors opening through the White House Faith Office and why religious liberty and public policy matter to pastors and churches. If you care about biblical masculinity, men’s discipleship, Christian leadership, and rebuilding strong families, this conversation is for you. Subscribe, share this with a friend, and leave a review so more people can find it.

Transcript

Rick Green [00:00:07] Welcome to The WallBuilders Show, where we take on the hot topics of the day from a biblical, historical, and constitutional perspective. Rick Green here with David Barton and Tim Barton. And today we're going to jump back in with Tim interviewing Josh McPherson on The American Story, which, by the way, you can get on YouTube and there at wallbuilders.com. But it's a great conversation about what we can do to raise up men that will lead patriotically, but biblically as well. And Josh, of course, has gotten on fire and really state of Washington is going to benefit greatly from this, but also the entire nation, Grace City Church. And that whole story got part of it yesterday. We're going to get more today and tomorrow. So today we'll be diving right back in, in the interview with Tim Barton and Josh McPherson, and then tomorrow we'll get the conclusion. So not our normal Foundations of Freedom Thursday tomorrow, but go ahead and send in your questions. We'll get to those next week or the other week after you do that by emailing radio@wallbuilders.com. That's radio@wallbuilders.com. But for now, actually, let's take a break early in the program today. When we come back from the break, we'll pick up where we left off yesterday with Tim Barton and Josh McPherson. Stay with us. You're listening to the WallBuilders Show. 

Rick Green [00:02:21] Welcome back to The WallBuilders Show. Thanks for staying with us. Jumping right back in from where we left off yesterday. This will be Tim Barton and Josh McPherson on The American Story. 

Pastor Josh McPherson [00:02:31] To be a stronger man means you have to die to yourself, die to your desire to be comfortable, die to your desires to be served. It is a sacrificial. So we say like this, as a stronger man, I will be as a choice of my will, ready, willing, and able to do my job in the service of others no matter the cost to myself. And so that's like the Stronger Man Nation pledge. And so we unpack that as I will be as choice of will, ready of mind, I've thought it through. Willing of heart, I want to, and able of hands, I am capable of, doing my job as a soldier, farmer, athlete, son, these are the categories that Paul gives us in Timothy, or protector, provider, leader, lover, doing my in the service of others. So it's not about wielding my power for me, but wielding it for the good of others, and that's a huge part of our movement because we believe God made men powerful. So this whole Marxist kind of push in our culture where power is bad, no, no God's powerful. We've been made in His image. We've made powerful. Women have a kind of power. And the oldest trade in the book, they use it all the time to topple kingdoms and men. Men have a kind of power and we often abuse it by flexing it or abandon it by abdicating our role. So when men abuse their power or abdicate their power, everyone suffers. So stronger imagination is a call to men of God to submit their will to God and then wield their power for good. So I will, as a choice of my will, be ready in mind, willing of heart, able of hands, to do my job as a protector, provider, leader, lover, in the service of others, no matter the cost of myself, and there's no nobility of it. I would rather die doing my job than live as a coward. 

Tim Barton [00:04:16] Well, I would say that this resonates so deeply, too, because when I was growing up as a kid born in the 80s of the 90s, I mean, the heroes, every boy wanted to be a Maximus Decimus Meridius, right? We wanted to be William Wallace. It resonated with us because it speaks to the things you're talking about right now. We wanted it to do something of consequence for the good and service of others. And I mean again, backing up, we want to kill the dragon and win the girl. That's the epitome and when culture has been teaching that men are bad, that masculinity is bad, et cetera, et cetera. Culture has been speaking. I mean, really, it's kind of a demonic thought that you should not be who God made you to be because the devil doesn't want warriors he has to fight. 

Pastor Josh McPherson [00:05:03] That's exactly right. 

Tim Barton [00:05:03] And so he can take you off the field. He's already winning. So, so how, how did you come up with this Stronger Man Nation idea? Where was this birthed? 

Pastor Josh McPherson [00:05:15] So here's what I tell pastors, and this may not be the answer you're looking for, but here's where I tell pastors, your job is not to be the best pastor your people know. Your first job is to be the best husband your wife knows and the best father your kids know. And so many pastors run past their family to do the sexy work of ministry. And it was just built into my bones from my parents that if you run around your family to go to ministry, you're avoiding the training ground, qualifying ground, and ongoing equipping ground for ministry. So it was really popular. I'm gonna go take a long answer. I'll get back to your question. It was very popular when I was growing up for pastors’ kids to like gripe about being a pastor's kid. You could write a book about it and make, you know, oh, my life is so hard. I live in a glass bubble and nobody knows me. I thought that was stupid because I thought being Greg McPherson's son was the best thing in the world. I loved my dad; I adored my dad. I still wanna be like him when I grew up. He was my hero. And as I've reflected on why that is, I think I put my finger on it with this explanation. For the sons who felt like their dads sacrificed them for the sake of ministry, they were bitter. They were bitter, my brother and I never felt like our parents sacrificed us for ministry. But what my parents did do in a very brilliant way is they brought us along so that we together as a family could make sacrifices for ministry. Those are entirely two different experiences. So it wasn't that we weren't on the field making sacrifices, working 50 hours a week. My parents just did it in such a way that we felt a part of it. 

Rick Green [00:07:00] Another break today guys, we'll be right back, you're listening to the WallBuilders Show. 

Rick Green [00:08:11] Welcome back to The WallBuilders Show. Thanks for staying with us. Jumping back in with Tim Barton and Josh McPherson. 

Pastor Josh McPherson [00:08:17] When my parents were gone all weekend doing marriage seminars and we were home alone, and they'd come home and share about the victories that God had won, we felt like we were a part of that. And we didn't feel like we're missing out. We felt like, we contributed it to it. And so my parents brought us along in that. And so I just never grew up bitter or jaded towards ministry. I wanted to give my life to ministry. Now I say all that to say, when I tell parents or pastors, If you sacrifice your family for ministry, you'll lose both. But if you invite your children to make sacrifices together for ministry you'll be more effective in both places. So I tell pastors this, your family is your resume. And I've talked, bro, with mega church pastors whose names people recognize in massive churches across the country whose kids don't even wanna go to church and listen to them preach. And I have sat in their home and they've sat in mine and I've said, bro I don't mean this to be harsh but if your son doesn't wanna go listen to hear what you have to say. Why should I care about what you have to say? Because, bro, it's easier to be impressive to the masses who don't know you than it is to be respected by those who do. And so I tell pastors, make it your life's aim to be respected most by those who know you best. And if a pastor does that, he's well on his way to being a success, no matter what happens out in the world, because, bro I think God anoints and blesses integrity. And so many times we see good intentioned men Because, bro, it's sexy, it, it it's, I told a bunch of pastors last week, when that phone call comes in, and they're telling you their life's on fire, and you're the only one that can help, it can attract that in your heart like, that's right, I'm gonna go be Superman. It takes a man who knows his priorities to say a fire emergency on your end does not necessitate an emergency on my end, and I'm going to be at home with my family tonight because they're my priority. And so for me, this is long answer. Where Stronger Man Nation came from? Stronger Man Nation was birthed out of the heart of a dad who was trying to figure out how in the world he was gonna help his sons understand biblical manhood. And so for me, you know, my son's eight years old and I'm looking around, I'm look at how my grandpa raised my dad and my dad raised me and how I wanna take an amount, I wanna a combination of my grandpa, my dad and prepare it to bring it to my son. I asked myself, how will I answer the question, dad, what is a man? And then I realized, Tim, that it's my job to answer that question. And I thought, what if I could hit by a bus? I still wanna be able to answer that question for my son. So I started writing it down. And I started articulating so that I could answer for my son the question. Dad, what does it mean to be a man? And I could have that answer for him if I died before he was ready to hear it. And then the second step was, I realized that, you know, throughout the entire history of humanity, cultures and tribes have always noted the necessity of them getting boys into manhood, otherwise they won't survive. That's been the story of humanity up until about, well, you could probably help me with history, maybe 100 years ago, 150 years ago. It's like up until then, if we don't get these boys into the manhood so they can hunt and kill and defend and walk the perimeter, If we don't get these boys disconnected from their moms and dangerous in the field, our tribe is toast. Because when we talk about the four roles of a man, protector, provider, leader, lover, they go in that order. You have to be a protector, otherwise it won't matter if you can provide because the bad guys will come in and kill your family. So if you cannot protect your family, you'll have no one to provide for. If you protect them but don't provide for them, you're worse than an unbeliever, Paul says, and you're not doing your job. And then you have to lead them so that they're going somewhere. But those first three, leadership traits are also true of mob bosses. They protect, they provide, they lead. It's that last piece, that lover piece, where we say lover of God, lover of our children, love of other people, that's what sets us apart. And so as I began thinking about how to get my sons from boyhood into manhood, I realized that most tribes in human history have had rites of passages, and we don't have rites of passages anymore in our culture. And then I changed my thinking on that when I realized, no, actually we do, they're just all the wrong ones. 

Tim Barton [00:12:36] Right! 

Pastor Josh McPherson [00:12:36] And so I developed this thing called Project Man Card where it was my attempt to build a framework to help dads raise boys to be men through structuring a series of rites of passages they would walk their sons through. And I realized most historic rites have passages or separate from your mom, be tested, pass the test, receive the approval of the tribe. And I realized there's something a little backwards about that because the gospel isn't, prove you're worthy and then I'll love you. The Gospel’s, I love you and then you live into that with a worthy life. That's the Father with the dove on the shoulder of Jesus. Here's My Son whom I'm well pleased.. That was a Father’s blessing. Question, was that before Jesus did ministry or after? It was before. It was giving him the fatherly blessing in that this is the affirmation of my son whom I am proud of. And it was from that place of affirmation that Jesus walked into his life of ministry. And so for me, the rite of passage process is a father. bestowing his blessing on his son, presenting challenges his son can overcome, reflecting on the lessons learned and the skills gained and then going to the next challenge. So for me, I told my sons, look, I wake up and face a rite of passage every day because I could stop being a stronger man tomorrow. I could roll over, I could break my vows, I could start protecting, I could stop fighting the sin in my heart. I could to stop being a man, which means we need to see manhood, Tim, less as a destination we arrive at and more of a starting line we arrive every day with new tests. So every test you pass as a man is a rite of passage into more responsibility, more influence, more opportunity to play the man for the sake of the kingdom. And every time we fail that test, we get to go back and take it again. So as I began building this rite of passage process through our Project Man Card, we wrote a documentary on it. I'll send it to you, you can watch it. It's this four day, three night experience with the best man I know running these boys through a 15 mile. 8,000 foot survival course with military special ops checkpoints they have to endeavor and problem-solving challenges. Because if you ask my sons, what do men do? My 13 year old son would say, we challenge ourselves to do hard things that matter for Jesus sake. 

Tim Barton [00:14:50] Come on. 

Pastor Josh McPherson [00:14:51] And so it's just building into a family and then a church family, a culture of challenging young men to do a hard things for Jesus' sake. And so Stronger Man Nation. Was not a ministry I started to wake up the men of America. Stronger Man Nation was me trying to be faithful as a dad to answer my son's questions when they would ask me, dad, what does it mean to be a man? And from there it grew to my church. 

Rick Green [00:15:18] Alright folks last interruption of the day got to take another quick break. We'll be right back. You're listening to the WallBuilders Show. 

Rick Green [00:16:30] Welcome back to The WallBuilders Show. We got Josh McPherson and Tim Barton. We're gonna get one more segment with them today and then we'll get to the conclusion of the interview tomorrow. But here's Tim Barton interviewing Josh McPherson on The American Story. 

Pastor Josh McPherson [00:16:42] Stronger My Nation was just me trying to help the men in my local church be stronger men, and from there begin resonating with other men. And so through writings and books and conferences and things, it began to grow. But the point I want to make is to encourage pastors, don't run past your family to ministry, because God wants to use your family to both increase your credibility for ministry and birth potentially your most important ministry. So that's how Stronger Man Nation got started, me trying be a dad. 

Tim Barton [00:17:09] It's so good. I know there's people that are going to want to find out and so we can probably put a link to Stronger Man Nation in our notes, but As you did this what what's happened in your church? When you started obviously there's a few of you in a living room What's it like now? What is God doing in your church? 

Pastor Josh McPherson [00:17:29] Well, it's an incredible story. It's the story of grace and mercy and power and vision. Our church, you have to really watch the time because I could brag on our church a long time. We have some of those remarkable men, the most remarkable women, what we're seeing God do in our youth, in our college students, in our children. We're just in a season of revival right now. And I don't say that lightly. John Tyson defined revival for me as a concentrated, a concentrated work of the normal ministry of the Holy Spirit. And so we're just seeing the Holy Spirit do an accelerated work right now, Tim. We've kind of stopped all of our normally scheduled programming; we're doing Sunday services and Wednesday night sacred assemblies. And we're gathering with hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of people in the presence of God for hours on end. God's giving visions, revelations, prophetic words. And this is from a reformed homeschool kid. Who doesn't move in charismatic circles very often. I'm like, I believe, I belief it's all real, but we're having incredible experiences in the presence of God. And we believe revival is given for reformation. And we belief that God wants to bring reformation to our state and to our nation. And so we see the end of which God is reviving our soul. So we're a couple of thousand folks in a church of a town of about 35,000 people. Our people have given over $65 million in the last 10 years to build out a 14-acre 125,000 square foot campus that God gave us a vision to be a hub of ministry. So people come here as a regional church. We just bought 50 acres to build a university. We're calling Vector West University. It's a university that will stand as the kind of the counterpart to West Point Academy. In that West Point academy raises generals to lead our military to victory. Vector West University will raise generals to lead Christendom to save the West. It is not a summer camp for Christian foot soldiers. It is bootcamp training for generals to lead Christendom to save the West. It is rigorous. It is physical. It is intellectual. It is challenging. It is difficult. It is hard. We have a school of Bible, a ministry, a school a business, and a school of politics that I'm hoping to get you connected with, as we talked about. And so Lord's just doing crazy things. 50 acres purchased, $5 million came in in a very short amount of time. I'm all over the place here. We're just seeing miracles, financial miracles, supernatural miracles, God's saving men, saving families. We have a lot of people leaving Washington because of the tyrannical, terrible policies of our state. What's crazy is as a church, we're seeing people move to Grace City, from Idaho, literally from Arizona. I had someone who goes to a buddy's church in Texas, and they're like, we love our church, but God kind of built us for a fight, and it's pretty calm down here. So we're moving to Washington. I'm like, wow, okay, so. It's our endeavor to build the family capital of the world. That's what we're calling it. So we started a Christian school two years ago. You'll love this. Never been done on the history of the state. We stood up a Christian School K through 12, all grades full, three or four sports offered, I forget. Never been down the history of state and ask yourself, is it because no Christians ever want to start a Christian in our state or the government has made it so difficult and so impossible that nobody could do it? It's the latter. And so we're trying to kind of break the mold and see if we can kind of move the Overton window, into the breach, whatever you want to say. So that school is two years in, thriving, 312 kids, something like that, K through 12. Our two-year college is up and running. We're gonna turn it into a four-year university this year. Bro, we're just trying to put points on the board, man. Trying to do whatever we can to get the word out. Jesus is alive, the family is amazing, men need to lead, women are worth loving and serving. Let's call youth to do hard things and see what might happen. 

Tim Barton [00:21:23] Josh, man, I love all of it. It's so great what's happening, but I do, as we're kind of wrapping up some of the thoughts, I do want to point out that that God has also laid some other things in your heart. There's some big things happening, where God's given you some unique opportunities to connect at the highest levels in our nation. And I say this so for people that follow us, we, at WallBuilders, will talk often about some of the incredible godly people that serve in Congress at that are around President Trump, we highlight some of this, but one of the things that is different for you is this isn't me telling people, God has some amazing people around President Trump, you're literally somebody that has talked to President Trump about matters of faith and God has just opened some incredible doors. So if you would for just a minute, if you'd speak to that, but then also there's a really big event happening this summer that... I'm excited about and I would love for you to tell us about that some as well. 

Pastor Josh McPherson [00:22:25] Okay, dude, you're asking all these great questions. You're getting me all excited. So that was just a fortuitous event. I was building my chicken coop in Monitor, Washington, population 238, invite to the White House. Not even quite sure how I got it. I attended a White House briefing with the Whitehouse Faith Office, was overwhelmed as you have been in these meetings with how many sincere, genuine, spirit-filled Jesus-loving Christians are in the administration doing really wonderful work. And President Trump in starting the Faith Office, a historic act, and then he appointed the head of Faith Office, Paula White, and then brought her into the West Wing essentially, functionally putting her at a cabinet level, meaning proximity is power and before, you know, the Faith Office was across the street and some, you, know ambiguous federal building. Bringing the faith of us into the West Wing was Trump's way to say, I value pastors, I value churches, I value religious liberty and freedom, and we're gonna prioritize policies that allow the church to be the church. When you get to hear and see all of the incredible work that Paula White, Jenny Korn and their team have done for religious liberties, it's emotional. When you realize how much our rights and liberties had come under attack, quite frankly, under the Biden and Obama administration. How many wicked and evil things were being done in terms of wickedness being prioritized with federal dollars and Christian charities being starved to death and really, you know, discriminated with through the federal government. President Trump, and I'll say this to my dying breath, I think he is a good man. He just has intuitive instincts that are righteous. And of course, that just always screws people when I say that. But having had a chance to be around many of the people he's appointed, he doesn't appoint charlatans. He doesn't point a slick political, he points genuine hardworking believers. And I think he understands intuitively, Romans 13, better than most pastors that took it out of context during COVID and just butchered it. He understands righteous, the role of government in punishing evil and rewarding good and protecting the nation's boundaries. And so it's just been wildly encouraging to be close to the White House Faith Office, just relationally, there's no official relationship at all, but people need to hear that there are good, Jesus-loving, God-fearing men and women in the White House working hard to restore the foundations of our distinctly Christian nation. They understand it, they see it, and then they want pastors at the table shaping policies, speaking into these things. I've experienced President Trump to be a, well, he's a workhorse. I've probably heard, I've had a chance to meet with or listen to 20, 30 different people that are close to him from cabinet members to chief of staffs and deputy chief of stuff. And to the man and to the woman, they respect his integrity, they respect his work ethic and they speak highly of him as a man they're honored to work for because he works harder and runs harder than anyone else on his team. And he and he's doing objectively righteous things in his policy, which I admire and respect deeply. So I just had a brief chance to speak with him, as you mentioned in the Oval Office a couple of weeks ago, and I just told him, God sees your humility. We observe the fear of God on your life, and we honor you, and you have our sword. Do all that God has put on your heart, and we want to support you however we can. 

Rick Green [00:26:13] Alright folks, we're going to have to take a long break. In other words, we are ending the program for today and then tomorrow we'll get the conclusion of Tim Barton's interview with Josh McPherson. And of course, tomorrow's normally Foundations of Freedom Thursday, as I mentioned, at the top of the program today, you can still send in your questions. We'll just have to get to them next week. But those are sent to radio@wallbuilders.com, radio@wallbuilders.com. And tomorrow we will get the conclusion of this interview with Josh McPherson, then be back on our regular schedule on Friday for Good News Friday. Thanks so much for listening today to The WallBuilders Show.