The Gap Year That Builds Leaders - with Krish Dhanam

Your teenager is smart, motivated, and still unsure what they’re called to do. Or maybe they’re already in college and feel like they’re paying to “find themselves.” We talk about a different path: a focused, high-intensity gap year that builds character, clarity, and real leadership skills instead of just collecting credits.

We sit down with Krish Dhanam, dean of the Patriot Institute at Patriot Academy, to break down what a full academic year of Christian worldview training actually looks like. Krish explains the “baptism by fire” approach where students learn apologetics, research quickly, and present confidently, plus deep dives into worldviews like Islam, atheism, Hinduism, and scientism so they can engage culture with both conviction and kindness. We also get practical about how parents can think through college decisions, why purpose should come before a major, and how mentorship continues long after graduation.

Along the way, we share stories of student growth, the impact of community and accountability, and memorable experiences like end-of-year travel to Philadelphia and Washington, DC that connects American history and constitutional principles to real places and real responsibility. David and Tim Barton also zoom out to a bigger challenge: resetting our assumptions about education and government by going back to biblical principles and foundational ideas that shaped the American experiment.

If you care about civics education, apologetics, leadership development, and raising the next generation to serve well, listen now, subscribe, share this with a parent or student, and leave a review so more families can find it.

Transcript

Rick Green [00:00:07] This is the intersection of faith and culture. The WallBuilders Show taking on the hot topics of the day from a biblical, historical, and constitutional perspective. An awful lot of programming over the last few months about the 250th and not only celebrating it, but doing the things necessary to move forward past the 250th as strong as we possibly can. Yesterday we had Dave Kubal on from Intercessors for America talking about some of the celebrations. And then of course the important things to be doing for the future. Today, Krish Dhanam will join us. We'll be talking about the next generation, how to train them to be prepared to lead America in this next chapter of America's history. Rick Green here with David Barton and Tim Barton. And guys, of course, we've always been involved in youth. We've got our internship in the summer that you guys do. We've Got Leaders Academy that we send people to up in Hot Springs, been doing Patriot Academy for a quarter century now. We support Summit and all these other groups. I mean, obviously a focus on the youth when we do education is important. And training them, really literally training them to be patriots, teaching them patriotism, teaching them how to be good citizens, such an important part of our responsibility. 

Tim Barton [00:01:11] Yeah, Rick, there's no doubt we have spent a lot of time and energy and focus on the next generation and we've seen a lot things moving in that direction where I think Turning Point a year ago started a program. We've seen lot of groups start giving more attention to where it should be paid. Now, we mentioned Turning Point. Now I'm thinking that Charlie Kirk, I mean, he definitely was of the belief that, man, so much of college is not necessary. It's he would often say college is a scam unless there's a specific focus that a degree is needed for. There are definitely some much better ways to spend time, energy, and attention for so many students. I was talking very recently with some friends and reiterating that even for our crew, our family, our friends, the thing that I'm encouraging the most is, not that you go to college to figure out what you want to do. No, you should be praying about what you wanna do. If you don't know, talk to friends, get some people that know you, that can offer input, suggestions, advice along the way. And then if you're not sure, go get a job. Work in a few different fields or areas so you start to get an idea of what you and don't like. And then if you feel either A. that God's called you to a specific area or B. that you really like a specific area that a degree would be helpful or necessary for then by all means go get a degree But if you're not trying to be an engineer or a doctor or it'll take something where you need a specialized training, then there's a lot of university that doesn't make sense and maybe even it would make more sense after you've done a program like, Rick, what you guys are offering, that year-long internship where people come and they get a better foundation for what they should think, they are more prepared for how to answer some of the questions, biblical worldview related, America related you kind of whatever it might be, but getting a better foundation. And it's really great to see so many groups move in that direction. And throughout the year, I would say a decent percentage of the times I am going to speak somewhere, it is going to speak to some of these groups that are offering these kinds of programs. It's far more than it used to be. And it is, to me, encouraging to see that in the midst of what we've been saying is probably a revival, maybe another great awakening, that part of maybe the fruit either that's helping produce or that's because of the revival and awakening is many more young people that are going places where they are getting a far better foundational education that will help them more in the future. 

David Barton [00:04:00] Yeah, I think, Rick, I was I was thinking about like Patriot Academy and what's going there. And in so many ways, what happens at Patriot Academy is not very consistent with what happens with American education or relationships or anything else today. But it is consistent with what happened with scriptural definitions of how education and relationships should occur. And I've been thinking a lot recently about how it's so easy for Americans to take what we think about the Bible and wrap it in what we know about America rather than the other way around. And so I really think that what's happening with Patriot Academy is really a good reset in so many ways. And the education that you see the kids get as they come out of there is so far ahead of where they get after years and years and years in traditional American pedagogy now. And so, I think it really is part of a good reset that's starting to happen. I think it's... It's just a great way to encourage kids to really take all the other years they've been putting in and actually make something of those years through what they do at Patriot Academy. 

Rick Green [00:05:04] Yeah. It's super healthy. And as Tim said, there's, there, it's kind of the trend now. Summit Ministries started a one-year program last year. We started ours two years ago. Turning Point Prep Academy started last year, in fact, we had the Turning Point Prep Academy down to the Patriot Academy campus and gave both groups a chance to kind of intermingle and do some training together. I, I'm really hoping and praying that we get a lot more of these programs across the country. I mean, honestly, we need them sort of like the way the founder started college is. We need to be starting these kinds of programs. Leaders Academy, of course, has led the way, been doing it 40 years up there in Hot Springs, our friends at Christian Ministries and, and, and four of my six kids have been through that. I think there's just, it just does something special for young people in that, you know, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21 years old, trying to figure out what they want to do, the purpose, the worldview, the foundation, I know we benefited from it in our family as a result of Leaders Academy. And, and so I'd love to see more people doing this. Krish Dhanam runs the one for Patriot Academy and he's going to be with us when we come back from the break. Stay with us folks. You're listening to the WallBuilders Show.  

Rick Green [00:07:14] Welcome back to The WallBuilders Show. Thanks for staying with us. Krish Dhanam back with us, Krish my good friend for 30 something years now and Dean of the Patriot Institute, just a phenomenal patriot and apologist and minister and just thrilled to have you, man. Krish, thanks for some time here on WallBuilders. 

Krish Dhanam [00:07:30] Good to be again with you, Rick. I know we're just crossing paths, trying to get a lot of what we have accomplished in the last two years to the next level. So I'm excited to see what the good Lord has in store for us. 

Rick Green [00:07:42] Well, it's so exciting to see what the, you know, the kids from last year, our, our Patriot Institute, we did our second year for, for listeners that aren't familiar with what we've been doing. Of course, Patriot Academy around for a quarter century. And Krish has been a part of that for 20 years. And we used to do it. We had them for one week. Krish, we always would say, man, if we just had them for a year and now we're about to enter our third year of doing that and having them for a year, and it does make a big difference to have that extra time with them. And of course you're the Dean. You're the one that gets to the most time with them. Pretty rewarding to watch the growth in their lives, huh? 

Krish Dhanam [00:08:14] Yeah, in fact, funny you bring that up because as we're working on the curriculum and doing a lot of the assimilation, one of my scholars from year one, and I say, my, it's almost like our kids as we see them grow. 

Rick Green [00:08:27] That's right. 

Krish Dunham [00:08:28] Yeah, Sidney has been my curriculum specialist and research assistant now and so she's helping us put together. And I was just watching her growth from how a shy kid she was, and now she just... doesn't, I mean, she can second guess me in what we need and it's just a joy. 

Rick Green [00:08:45] Yeah, I actually got to see Sydney for just a few minutes at the Idaho Capitol last week. I didn't get to be there for much of the Leadership Congress there, but she was there and it was really good to see her. But yeah, that's been one of the coolest things is not only these students that come through the one-year institute, they get the apologetics, they the history and leadership skills and speaking skills and all those things and we see them go into every kind of field you can imagine medicine, you know politics all of that. But we've seen so many of them come on board with Patriot Academy or go join WallBuilders or American Journey Experience or these other really culture changing institutions. And so they initially come just to get some training to find their purpose, but then we've see so many of them become a part of the mission with us. That's really cool too. 

Krish Dhanam [00:09:36] Yeah, and I vividly remember when we began this journey, you know, the whole concept of the institute was, and, I tell them this on day one when they join, I said, listen, you know what? For every step you take forward, we'll take one right behind you. God forbid you ever fall. We'll be right there to catch you. Don't be afraid to succeed. And I think we have built this institute as a wall behind them even after they've come and been with us and left. So the community has followed them and our mentorship and all that has gone a long way. I've had the chance to officiate three weddings already. 

Rick Green [00:10:11] Wow, man. 

Krish Dunham [00:10:12] That's been fun. And of course, so, but yeah, as you mentioned, apologetics and all, as I'm looking at the curriculum and all of that, I think it's much needed in this day and age of the culture that is shifting around us in such a rapid way. And the influx of people, I'm an immigrant and I, you know, did it legally. So, I'm not against culture assimilation, but I just think the Christian worldview that we present, not only do they need to know what they believe, but they need to understand what others believe so they can give a good defense and do it with humility and kindness. 

Rick Green [00:10:45] Yeah. Amen. Amen, and it is such a challenging time for even just knowing who they are, knowing who we are as a nation, knowing what it means to be an American, what it mean to be a Christian. Those are all big, big questions that are being challenged in crazy ways online, of course, what they're dealing with social media and everything else. And so this institute really gives them a place to get grounded, and not only grounded, like you said, in what they believe, but understanding the rest of the world and then having the incredible relationships and interactions and sharpening each other. For listeners that maybe aren't familiar or maybe haven't even, you know, been to a Leadership Congress or seen any of the things that we do, PatriotAcademy.com is the website, but if you go to PatriotAcademy.com/institute, then you can learn more about this academic year. Basically, it's the first of October through late May, and we have room right now. In fact, we have scholarships available. And so, check that out. You may have some young people in your life that you're thinking of, even as Krish and I are talking about this, send them to the website, give them a chance to learn more about it. There's some videos they can watch what it's like a day in the life of, of an Institute scholar and, and see how the year breaks down. Krish, we got to take home at the end of the year. I guess it's only been a month and a half ago that we took them to DC for their end of year trip. We had planned a trip to Israel and of course, everything happened with Iran and we couldn't go. And so we had an amazing trip to Philadelphia to DC to, I mean, they got to see so many things. And you got to take them on some of that, including the Bible Museum in DC. We got to them to the Capitol for a late night tour. What was that like after you had spent all that time teaching them and just having the around the fire discussions and the walks across the campus. I mean, you built great relationships with them and poured so much into them. 

Krish Dhanam [00:12:32] You'd mentioned DC, and they didn't know, many of them didn't know that I was going to be there, so I'd flown up there and actually was at the Bible Museum before they got there, and when they got out of the van, how they ran and hugged me in the middle of nowhere. Just so excited. And then they dragged me to different parts, and then I got a chance. I told them as a special provision, I bought them extra tickets, and we went to see the Dead Sea Scrolls, so I took a separate group from that and they were just so happy to do that. But one of them said, hey, Mr. Dhanam, I want you to come with me to see the Jewish story of the walk to Emmaus. So that perspective, I just got a letter yesterday from one of our California grads who told me that offering a counter opinion and making them think differently was one of her greatest takeaways. And these are things that, you and I have been doing this a long time, Rick. We never, we do what we do because we're called to do it, but. As Mr. Ziggler, our common mentor, always said, five years from now when you receive a letter saying you touched their life, that's when you realize that you were really glad to have been part of that movement. So it is so exciting to see their growth and now getting feedback as one day a year or two removed. And then the new ones coming in as we're traveling to these Leadership Congresses, the siblings are getting excited. So I think we'll have a really good conduit very quickly. 

Rick Green [00:13:55] What would you say, how would you summarize the academic portion? Let's talk about that for a second. Just kind of what does a student expect or a parent that's listening to thinking about sending them? I tell a lot of young people, best thing to do is to do this before college so you know what you wanna do and find your purpose. But even if you've already got your college degree or you, we even had, I think we had two students this last year that had gone to seminary already. But kind of how do you summarize that year of the academic proportion of it? 

Krish Dhanam [00:14:24] Yeah, as a pre, what I tell people is if you've decided college is not for you or you've decided that you don't know or you're absolutely sure that something else is on the thing, I tell the parents, just send your kids to us for a year and we'll give you back a better citizen and whatever they choose, you'll be proud of. So that's one side of a guarantee. But as far as them coming on the academic side, we cover apologetics in great depth. We cover worldviews in great depth from Hinduism to Islam to scientism to atheism, just about everything. And it's all baptism by fire, which means if I teach on Monday, by Wednesday, they have to present back to me on something they just learned 48 hours ago. So they're heavily steeped into doing research. We do Renaissance philosophy. We have added early American history, pre-revolution and the people who have built America. We go through the financial people who built America post post-independence and post-civil war. What happens is we give them a good grounding of the 250 years that made this republic great, but then we add the parameters of the 5,000 years of global history surrounding that. I always tell my American friends that America is too young to have problems because most of our antiques are plastic. We are fairly brand new, but we bring them the global perspective. I think the parents who come and sit in the gallery or attend the classes are quite fascinated. By how we cover in-depth a lot. And my own journey of about 80 different countries over 30 years has allowed me to amass the research and a good faculty of offering and things that we have managed to build together. 

Rick Green [00:16:05] Yeah, yeah, no, no doubt. And then, and then we bring in incredible, you know, guest speakers, Frank Gaffney on national security, of course, David and Tim Barton coming in and Joseph Backhome, Mark Meckler, there's a lot of people that come and, and, and pour into them over the, over the course of that year. And then the fun stuff, of course, they get these trips and they get handgun training, they get you know, all kinds of fun stuff. And I've always said, I think the most important or I guess, epiphany moments for them tend to be around the fire or sitting in the coffee shop, you, know, talking to you or me or, or each other. I, I loved watching them just sharpen each other last, this, this last class, there was something special there where they just elevated the. Intensity, they held each other accountable. It was really. It was a camaraderie that I guess we saw a little bit of that in the first year, but it was a smaller class This one it was just it was really special and I'm hoping we can recreate that this this next year as well. But that was that was cool. You saw it more than I did but even in the debates and the different things that happened, they really learned from each other as well 

Krish Dhanam [00:17:03] Absolutely, and I told them, if you can't learn around the fire, set yourself on fire. At least other people will come to watch you burn. 

Rick Green [00:17:10] That's right. 

Krish Dhanam [00:17:13] But yeah, and based on what Reagan and Faith are telling me, I think we've got a healthy interest already. About 15 or 16 people have already shown some kind of good interest, and we've received a good number of applications already. I'm excited about that, but like you said, the scholarships that are being offered right now, this is a very generous side of what our donors do for us, that if anybody is wanting to consider this, go to the website, as Rick pointed out, that www.patriotacademy.com/institute, and you'll see a brand new website that is built up there which has kind of up-to-date information on just about every aspect of the Institute. I think. I think we're way ahead of where I thought we'd be two years into it, but I'm really grateful that we get a chance to do this. 

Rick Green [00:17:58] So important, man. So important. This is, you know, I've always kind of somewhat jokingly said this is the Navy SEALs of Civics training. It's like the BUDs, you, know, BUD's training is about a year long when they, when the SEALS go in there. And, and in many ways, this is, you know the mental side of that and preparing them to kill bad ideas. Instead of killing bad people, they kill bad ideas and just being ready to answer, you know, that scripture in 1 Peter 3:15. I mean, it's literally learning how to answer well for the hope that is within. And the confidence that's the other thing I was gonna ask you about is just watching their countenance and their confidence from the time they arrived in in September, October to the time that they graduated in May. Speak to that a little bit how you saw that growth in them. 

Krish Dhanam [00:18:41] And yeah, and one of the formulas we give them is we say, you know, just having confidence without the competence allows you, you become arrogant and you become overconfident. That's when Buster Douglas knocks out Mike Tyson, but we teach confidence plus competence, and that allows them to win every time, all the time. So that confidence and competence, the way we offer it to them is the will and the skill. Bobby Knight often said, the will to win is nothing without the will to prepare to win. So we get them as excited about the preparation process. As much as the execution is fun and they love the speaking and they love traveling with us and they loved doing the things that we do, I want them excited about preparation and I've shown that's one thing that you have to do by visual example. So they see me preparing and we have a running challenge in class. I said, if any of you ever beat me to class. I'll send you a $50 gift certificate and so far in two years nobody has ever made it to the class before me 

Rick Green [00:19:43] So I cannot say the same for sure. Oh man. And, and, and just the fun of it too, man. We, we, I think we create a really good environment. The, the Lord's blessed us with the campus and just a great place for them to grow and at this time. So yeah, parents out there that are listening, young people that are listening, uh roughly 17 to 23, we do make exceptions. You can do it in your, as your senior year. You know, if you've, uh if you're going into your senior year of high school and you want to double up and, and get this kind of training. And like you said, Krish, this is master's level education that they're getting and it really will strengthen them whatever their career is going to be. But if you want to spend your senior year with us or you finished high school and you're looking at college or you're wanting to just figure out what you want do with your life or you already know perhaps that the government realm is where you want be and this would be a great place to get some good grounding on that or you just want to strengthen your faith and get a better foundation there. All of those things can be met and like we said, these 27 that graduated last, they went into just about every area of the culture you can you can imagine so patriotacademy.com/institute is the place to learn more. Patriotacatemy.com/institute. Krish Dhanam, the Dean of the Institute. Thank you so much for coming on today, brother. 

Krish Dhanam [00:20:54] Thanks a lot bro, we'll see you soon. 

Rick Green [00:20:56] Alright, stay with us folks, we'll be right back with David and Tim Barton. 

Rick Green [00:22:06] Welcome back to the WallBuilders Show. Thanks for staying with us. Thanks to Krish Dhanam for joining us today and for all he's doing to lead those students at the Patriot Institute and back with David and Tim Barton now. And of course, guys, as, as Krish was talking about, you know, it's not just studying the things that, that, you know, that we love or that we want to know. It's also being prepared to counteract a lot of the attacks on America and a lot the things are going on in the world and therefore being knowledgeable about Islam and everything else is a big part of what we've got to take serious in teaching the next generation 

David Barton [00:22:39] And Rick, even in thinking about Patriot Academy, I'm really kind of struck with a new thought that I'm kind of dealing with right now. I've been asked to go down to Mexico and teach political leaders down there, new political leaders. They've started new parties down there. They're trying to get some corruption out. They're doing good things to try to make a difference. But the problem I've got is when I go in and teach about government, they're going to interpret what I say in terms of what they've experienced for the last hundred years with Mexican government. That's all the government they know. And it's the tendency we have in America, when we talk about government, all we know is what we've had since the three or four generations we've been around with us and our parents, maybe grandparents, that's all we now. And so how to reset back to, no, no we've been doing it wrong for several generations. And that's the problem we're gonna have with Mexico. And so what I'm telling them is, guys, you need to go back and read John Locke's Two Treatises of Government, where he references the Bible more than 1,400 times on how governments to operate. And then let's talk about what Mexican government should look like. Let's ignore what you've had for your Constitution in the last several Constitutions. Let's see the same with us. And so in thinking about that, even with Patriot Academy, I was going back over, okay, if you have groups of young people, what scriptural guidance do we have? Forget the American experience, forget the American youth group, forget what we've done with education for the last hundred years under progressivism. And we would say, well, you never separate your academics from your character and your life skills. And you teach those life skills with academics all the time. The Bible says that to knowledge, you had faith, goodness, self-control, perseverance, and God, and that's how you learn. And then we would choose people of character for our leaders because the Bible tells us that everyone will be, when he's fully trained, will be like his teacher. So do we really wanna be like the teachers we have in school? Or, no, that's not the example we want. And then I'm just looking here at Proverbs 18:17, and Job 23, and Luke 4, all these verses I've got. It's time for us to rethink how we do it, and I think what you guys are doing at Patriot Academy is a rethinking of how you really train people right. 

Tim Barton [00:24:39] Well, and as Rick you we're talking to Krish about Patriot Institute and all the training that you guys have done. When Krish mentioned Washington DC. I was just thinking about that trip and how cool it is that now you guys because of now Rick your decades of doing this not that you're old, but you've been doing it for a while. Because of your decades of doing this, you have people now, not only that are working in state legislatures that are doing businesses and initiatives in the state, the fact that you now have people that are work inside of the Administration that have been part of your programs and your training for years that well. y'all were able to take students up there and get some behind the scenes in places like the White House among others. Like how amazing is that? And then of course for parents out there that are navigating, you know, what's the best thing for my kids hearing Krish has officiated several weddings. I just thought, you know, there's a lot of benefits for people that are going man. What's for my kids? What are they gonna do? Like Patriot Institute, there's lot of advantages for people who are interested. So just so cool to hear about some of the positive things coming from what you guys have been doing 

David Barton [00:25:51] Even with something like Patriot Institute, people don't need to be thinking, hey, this is great training for government because that's not what it's really about. I mean, it is that, but it's like all the Founding Fathers, they were good at government, but then you have people like Benjamin Rush, who's a physician, and you've got people like Francis Hopkinson, who's musician, and you got all these other things out there, and that's what Patriot Institute is. Yeah, it'll teach you how to be good in government. But every citizen needs that. It'll also give you all the things you need to build a foundation for the rest of your life. 

Rick Green [00:26:24] Patriotacademy.com/institute check it out folks there's a lot to, a lot of information there on the website. Let us know what we can do to answer any questions you have and like I said we got some scholarships available for this coming fall and we look forward to seeing your young people there and seeing them grow. Thanks so much for listening today you've been listening to the WallBuilders Show