Linda Sleath, Group HR Director at Tayto Group

In this episode of the HRD Talks podcast, host Nic Elliott speaks with Linda Sleath, Group HR Director at Tayto Group, the UK's largest family-owned snack manufacturer, and home of iconic brands including Tayto, Golden Wonder and Real Crisps.

Linda shares her route into HR, moving from operational and manufacturing roles into people leadership, and reflects on a career working with some of the UK's most recognisable brands, including United Biscuits, Molson Coors, Boots, Topps Tiles and Tayto. She discusses why HR is most effective when it works shoulder to shoulder with the business, helping leaders navigate challenges, support their people and find practical solutions.

The conversation explores some of the biggest issues facing HR today, including hybrid working, recruitment and retention challenges in manufacturing, the importance of commerciality, and the ongoing criticism often directed at the profession. Linda discusses perceptions of HR, the value the function brings to organisations, and why understanding the operational realities of the business is critical to effective people leadership.

Nic and Linda also discuss the emotional demands placed on HR professionals, from supporting people through organisational change and difficult personal circumstances to managing their own resilience and wellbeing. Linda shares her views on the importance of professional networks, supervision, coaching and maintaining perspective in what can often be a highly demanding role.

Packed with practical insights, career advice and a healthy dose of humour, this episode is an honest and refreshing look at modern HR leadership and the vital role people professionals play in helping organisations succeed.

We hope you enjoy this episode!

The HRD Talks is brought to you by Actons. For more information on our podcast please visit our website.

Transcript

Introduction and Meet Linda Sleet

Nic Elliott 0:00

So, welcome to this episode of the HRD Talks podcast where we talk with HR directors and people directors about their journey into HR, get their insights into current trends in the world of work, and take their advice on the future of HR and how HR professionals can deliver value and progress their careers. Today I'm very, very excited to have Linda Sleet, who's group HR Director at Taito. Welcome, Linda.

Linda Sleath 0:25

Good to be here. Hello, finally.

Nic Elliott 0:27

Yes, well, I was going to say we've been wanting to do this for a little while, so it's good to get going. Would you like to explain a little bit about who you are, what you do, and a bit about Taito?

Linda Sleath 0:38

Yes, I'd love to. So uh yeah, so I'm Linda Sleet, I'm the Group HR director at Taito Group. Um so that is a snack business. In fact, the UK's largest family-owned snack business for uh snack and crisps. So we make uh the iconic Tato Crisp, which is uh a real thing in Northern Ireland. Um there are two Tatoes, as we know, there's a Southern Irish and a Northern, ours is a Northern one. As well as making Golden Wonder, real crisps, and lots of crisps for supermarkets, third party, but Tato is our jewel in our crown.

Nic Elliott 1:10

Absolutely. Well, and and I have to say I'm particularly excited about this episode having been born in Northern Ireland, all my family being there, and Tato was a real a real big deal, cheese and onion in particular.

Speaker 3 1:20

Oh yes.

Nic Elliott 1:21

And um, so I'm just genuinely excited to be talking about that. Yeah, a taste of home. Absolutely, and I think it's interesting, isn't it? Because although some people in England, let's say, um, may not be familiar with the Taito brand, Golden Wonder and Real Crisps, you know, I think they will be. And certainly they should try Taito if they haven't.

Linda Sleath 1:41

Oh god, yeah.

Nic Elliott 1:42

Available on the website?

Linda Sleath 1:43

They are, yes, yeah, uh Taito.com.

Nic Elliott 1:45

There we go. Great, we got that out of the way. Excellent. So um tell us about your journey into HR. So you've been at some incredible places. So I was looking back at your CV on LinkedIn, and you've been at United Biscuits, Molson Cause, Boots, Tops, Tiles, Bensons for Beds, and now Taito. Yes. Like that's a really impressive list. But were you have you always worked in HR? Do you start out doing that?

Linda Sleath 2:09

No, no, in fact, um, I always joke that I defected into HR, which actually 25 years ago, I started when I was three, obviously. Um so prior to that, because after uni, um I wasn't really sure what I wanted to do. I was going to follow my dad into the army, but I have uh celiac disease, so you can't go into the army if you've got celiac disease. Which, given some of the businesses I worked in, is quite ironic, biscuits and beer. Lots of gluten-free ones now, but at the time. So um but I started off on a scheme at 3M. Okay. So 3M healthcare, so pharmaceuticals. I was there for about a good five years and in manufacturing and supply chain, and that was brilliant in terms of learning about process rigour. Um, as you can imagine, it's quite stringent making pharmaceuticals and healthcare devices. It was great, but quite frankly, I was bored. Okay. Uh it was a very linear business in terms of you have to do this first before you move on to somewhere else, but got involved in the people side of things quite a lot. Then I went to work for a um a chilled food organisation that made um sandwich fillings, yeah. Uh such as uh cream cheese, uh, egg mayonnaise, but I worked in the plant that did hard-board eggs and egg mayonnaise. Yep. And I look back now and forget just how stinky it was. I mean, I we used to go to the pub on a Friday, there's quite a young group of us that were managers, and we must have just stanked the place out. But um uh yeah, so I was a production manager there. Okay. Um, but I got again very involved in the people side of things because as a manager, you do that on a daily basis. And the head of HR there, who's still a dear friend to this day, said, You'd be great in HR.

From Operations Into HR

Linda Sleath 3:42

And I went, Well, probably do a better job. The arrogance of uh being a live manager, yeah. And I thought, actually, she's got a point because I'm really fascinated by people, what makes them tick. Can't say I always like people, but I'm fascinated. And then thought I'm gonna go and work in HR. But it took me a while to get in because I hadn't got my CIPD at that point, I'd had no experience, despite going, well, I do it on a daily basis. And I think what I've been really proud of in my career is I take an open mind to okay, well, let's see what comes up. And so therefore, if a door opens, I'm like, I'm gonna try and go through that.

Nic Elliott 4:15

Yep.

Speaker 4:15

And I went for a job at McVitis, a factory that used to be in Ashby that's no longer there. So United Biscuits, which is you McVitis, KP, and Jacobs at the time. And the HR uh lead there was an ex-operational manager, so I ended up getting the job. So I spent a fantastic 10 years at UB effectively learning my trade. I mean, I did, I sucked up everything. So I I I'd say I'm a true generalist.

Nic Elliott 4:39

Yeah.

Linda Sleath 4:40

So yeah, so 25 years ago, stepped to stepped through the HR door and never looked back.

Nic Elliott 4:44

Absolutely. And then obviously a few moves to some you know really great brands since then. Highlights of that?

Linda Sleath 4:50

Highlights. I think working for some iconic brands, because I love it if uh you know people go, What do you do? Who do you work for? And you say they're like, Oh my god, you know, I love that particular beer or love that biscuit. Yeah, I can wax lyrical about um the whole Jaffa cake being a cake and not a biscuit. But I think my highlights are working for big brands with some fantastic people. So, yeah, we were just talking earlier about the podcast you did with uh with Kim Knight, who was also at Boots International. So working in Boots International and working across different countries and learning about different contexts um and getting to go to some fabulous places. I mean, that's been a real highlight. And even when at the time it feels like a lowlight, help navigating businesses through some terrible times. So my time at Topps Tiles through the COVID uh pandemic, yeah. Looking back on that and going, we did right by our people. Yeah, that's been some real highlights.

Nic Elliott 5:40

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And COVID we we kind of forget in some ways, happened. Yeah. When you say you did write by your people during that time, what what kind of thing are you thinking? Was it a furlough situation?

Linda Sleath 5:53

And presumably, yeah, a little a little bit of everything. Because it because it was one of those things, remember sort of uh at five o'clock every evening going right. So Boris has just said that, yeah, WhatsApp's going crazy, like what's that mean?

Nic Elliott 6:03

Usually on a Friday.

Linda Sleath 6:04

Oh, yes, yeah. And I oh, thanks a lot. Um next slide, please. Um but working through okay, so we were a retail business, but we also supported the construction to traders, etc. So we had to put a certain amount of people on furlough, but we took the decision to go, well, actually, we won't take them right down to the bare minimum. And and as an exec team, we also took a cut as well in going, well, if it's impacting them, it's impacting us, and then working through on a case-by-case basis, making sure that actually people were supported, um, helping try and navigate the business through what this means. And unfortunately, we have we we lost a couple of people, yeah, and then doing right by their families and their friends. So yeah, because ultimately, yeah, it it really is unprecedented. Yeah, but it's fine. That balance between actually, we need to make sure we've got money coming in because being a PLC business, our duties to the shareholders, but also making sure that we're looking after our colleagues that and for us, because everybody sat at home and went, I don't like my tiles anymore. We saw a massive boom as people went DIY crazy.

Nic Elliott 7:12

Absolutely. Yeah.

Linda Sleath 7:13

Well, you want your colleagues on board to be able to sell those uh deal with that

Speaker 7:17

rush.

Nic Elliott 7:17

Yeah. So and then um I sometimes think when I'm thinking about kind of the world of work at the minute and the trends that we're seeing and that kind of thing, that we must still be impacted by what happened during COVID. And the the obvious one is work from home hybrid stuff. Do you feel like that's impacting even now?

Linda Sleath 7:37

Yes. I mean, just reading some of the articles about Draconian, everybody back to the office. I think you need to be pragmatic. We're having similar conversations around finding that balance between actually want people to come into the office because the vast majority of our colleagues can't because they're working in operations. You know, we haven't quite worked out how to do crisps in bulk in people's homes. Yeah. Maybe that's something for the future. But finding that balance in terms of a, I think people work better, you know, collaboration, teamwork, etc. But it is finding that balance. It's about what's right, but also as well, you get people that apply for jobs going only want to work at home. And you know, there are some roles that you can, and but I think for people's mental health, you've got to find that balance. You know, I I like working from home when I need to, but I also need that social interaction.

Nic Elliott 8:22

Yeah. Because it feels to me that there is a kind of new expectation of flexibility, isn't there? Where you know, it it that time, that COVID kind of change almost changed things forever, and that that that expectation does seem to be there. And you know, we even see it in things like occupational health, recommending working from home as a reasonable adjustment and that kind of thing. Often I you know, I'm I'm not entirely clear that that's the best idea, but but there is this sense of a kind of an expectation or entitlement, even to a certain extent. And I think for employers that's quite tricky at times.

Linda Sleath 8:58

It is, it is, and I think again, this is where our function can help navigate that case-by-case basis, and you know, the difference between working flexibly and agile and okay, well, I've got to work from home tomorrow versus affordable, flexible request um and and navigating the two. But I think what has been interesting is you know, I think about many leaders who are like, nope nobody works from home, can't trust them, they'll be doing the washing and you know walking the dog. Actually, you can trust people. If anything, I think the the boundaries for people to actually not taking breaks. I know when I work from home sometimes, I look at the clock and go, I've been sat here for hours.

Nic Elliott 9:36

Yeah.

Speaker 9:37

So yeah, it it it's a tough one to navigate, but I'm not in favour of a jaconian. That's it, everybody back to the office when you can find some middle ground.

Nic Elliott 9:45

Yeah, yeah, that makes sense. And then focusing it in on Tayto. Yes. Tell us about what's going on there, exciting things, less exciting things, whatever it might be. How how's HR, you know, kind of cr uh because it's essentially it's a family run business, isn't it?

Linda Sleath 10:03

Yeah, I mean, channeled a bit of history. Yeah, absolutely. So uh yeah, founded in 1956, which um and and a full disclosure, the reason when when I had the phone call about the the job, um I got dead excited because A, having worked for United Biscuits

Career Highlights Across Major Brands

Linda Sleath 10:16

OK, uh my family are from Northern Ireland who went, Oh my god, I know Tato. Um, you know, when you you turn up at either of the airports and you see Mr. Tato stood there. Um so yeah, so founded in 1956, um uh there is a castle where we make our crisps in Northern Ireland. It is a proper castle. Um I've stayed there a couple of times. That's just so cool to say where Mr. Tato lives. So, yeah, so we're we're the third snack organisation in the UK, so but there are others that you will know, but I'm not gonna name them, I'm not gonna name check them on this podcast. So, yeah, so we are very profitable, we're very successful. The challenge we've got though is most of our work is on the on the shop floor and it's about achieving good quality Chris at volume. And that can be a challenge when you're trying to attract people, retain people, because it's not the most glamorous of roles. And our job in HR is to help navigate that, and you know, all of our challenges is around recruitment at the moment and retention. So part of that is making sure that we hire right first time. Um, I mean, that's universal, but even more so going be really clear in the outset that it's gonna be hot in there, it's gonna smell of oil, it's gonna smell of flavourings, it's not particularly glamorous, but we make some fantastic products and we've got longevity. And when people join us, how do we help equip them to be able to do their job effectively as quickly as possible? Uh, even more so now. So a lot of focus on our onboarding and induction, thinking about the change to the law, you know, for people that join after the first of July, let's make sure we set them up for success. But yeah, a family-owned business but it's becoming incredibly successful and large, and helping them understand the certain things we need to do from a rigour perspective, from a legal perspective, that you doesn't really matter that much when you're a small organisation. So, and what I'd say for me is is bringing HR out of the back and bring it to the front in terms of we're there to help find solutions. Yeah. Um, so yeah.

Nic Elliott 12:18

Well,

Recruitment and Retention in Manufacturing

Nic Elliott 12:19

and and again, having known you a little while, the impression I get is that you approach HR from a kind of we stand alongside the operation side. I'm sure partly driven by your own operational kind of background, but it feels very much like we're not here to do the stuff that other people suggest HR do. We're here to actually help them achieve what they want to achieve. Yes. Which again, I think we'll probably talk about some of the criticism of the profession that that's going on at the minute. But kind of explain how you approach it in that way.

Linda Sleath 12:51

Yeah, I think I really love working at HR. Not always, as maybe so I'm like, what on earth? Um, but I I love the difference. I know I can make it as a person, but also as a function. So I approach it from the fact is that we're there shoulder to shoulder with the organisation, but also looking after our employees as well. Because you know, you very often hear, oh HR, are only there for the business. Our job is to manage or find the solution, make it a great place to work, but also mitigate risk for both sides. And I think that that symmetry is possible. So what I always try and do is understand the context that I'm working in. So, you know, if you're a first-line manager on the shop floor with fryers, ovens, packets of crystal all over the place, I need to make sure that the solutions that we give them to help them do their job are as simple as possible. Yeah, and you know, what might work for an office worker isn't gonna be the same for somebody that's running a shift. And if you're a shop floor worker that hasn't got access to a laptop, how to make sure that they understand the policies that they need to do and make them really simple because you know we can overcomplicate things.

Nic Elliott 14:01

Yeah.

Speaker 14:02

Um, but yeah, I definitely see us as you know, we are there to create solutions, but shoulder to shoulder.

Linda Sleath 14:08

Yeah.

Speaker 14:09

Um and and I always manage or measure rather my successes when sometimes I've got a revolving door of people going, Have you got a minute? I just want to talk this through with you. Yeah. For me, that's brilliant.

Nic Elliott 14:20

Yeah.

Linda Sleath 14:20

Let's talk it through first rather than me going, okay, what have you what have you done? Uh and uh I said I get this in, but to call the phrase of one of my old team, clean up in R5, HR calling. Um yeah, so we're there to create solutions, and ultimately the things that we can do basically take away the noise and allow people to focus on their job at the best of their ability.

Nic Elliott 14:44

Yep.

Working Shoulder-to-Shoulder With the Business

Nic Elliott 14:45

And it's interesting to hear you talk about um symmetry when you're describing the kind of looking after the business objectives and looking after the people. I've often described that as a tension that HR have to uh kind of manage, which it doesn't feel particularly positive. I like your way of describing it. How do you see that working in practice? Because it's like a it's a line that's tricky to walk a lot of the time, isn't it?

Linda Sleath 15:09

And you're right, uh a lot of the time it it's tension, but you should always strive for that symmetry. I think very often it's not anything, it's kind of understanding what's really the root of of the issue. Um because invariably a lot of the things that end up being massive problems are the root is people not understanding where each other's coming from or with not being clear, it's understanding what is the root of it, yeah, and then going on how do we find the best solution? And sometimes it is it is what it is, and this is how it's gonna be. So, for example, a lot of the work we have to do sometimes is you know separating from from individuals, that's a terrible phrase, but you know how do you do that uh with respect and recognising there's an individual at the end of the end of that conversation who has a mortgage to pay, has a family to look after, um, and always keeping that in mind. And to do that is making sure A, we're doing it legally, but also making sure we're doing it with humanity.

Nic Elliott 16:09

Yeah.

Linda Sleath 16:09

Because I've seen some terrible instances in in my career, and also people ring me for advice in my personal life, and I'm like, oh gosh, what's happened?

Nic Elliott 16:19

Yeah.

Linda Sleath 16:20

So yeah, I think that that tension comes from lack of understanding. Yeah. Um and I suppose what I'd say to that is it's really important in HR, we understand, we have the technical expertise to be able to spot when something's gonna become an issue, sniff it out, should I say.

Nic Elliott 16:36

Yeah.

Speaker 16:36

Um, but be there in the first instance. So actually you find a solution so that doesn't happen. Yeah. If that makes sense, yeah.

Nic Elliott 16:42

Yeah, and I

Being Commercial With Data

Nic Elliott 16:43

and I think the the in recent years has also been a real focus on sort of HR being more commercial in vertical commerce. And and again, some of the best HR people that I work with tend to have come from a commercial background, an operational background, that kind of thing, and therefore are wired in a way, it seems to me, where they understand that a business is there to achieve something, particularly in the kind of private sector commercial world. But but can you get that experience another way? Can you train that into an HR professional to make them better at that?

Linda Sleath 17:17

Oh, yeah, absolutely. So I think that goes back to understanding context. So we make we make snacks, snacks and crisps. So there's only a certain amount of margin you can get from that. So we need to think about if we're if we're doing things actually, let's what value that's gonna help to create as our ability to make that that margin. Um, I think also as well, cutting your cloth accordingly. So, you know, I've come from some way bigger organizations. If I were to take my playbook of we're gonna do it this way, they don't need that.

Nic Elliott 17:49

Yeah.

Linda Sleath 17:50

So being pragmatic, but also I'm a great believer in speak with data. So, okay, for example, our focus is on retention. You can measure retention, you can measure the hidden cost of that. Right. So now we need to focus on that and let's drop that down. Um, and that's data, insight, and action. Um but ultimately uh, and I probably learnt this one my Molson Calls Day, is I expect my team, if they're sat with their friends and family, or down the pub and they go, What do you do? Focus on the business first and go, actually, I work for a business and we make snacks. So you can talk about the snacks that we make, our customers, and what our customer dynamic is, but also, oh, and by the way, a potato comes at this end and pops out the other. So we expected people at Molton Cause to be able to explain that really simple. It's called pub talk. So if you do that, you understand the business. Yeah, but you can teach it, and and I take a lot of time going, okay, what's the return on investment on that? You can measure pretty much anything, even when you go, well, legally, we've got to do that, but you can still do that in a pragmatic way, in a commercial way. Um, because ultimately, somebody once said, if they walk into a room, they wouldn't be able to pick out who's HR because everybody's having that commercial, we lead with commercial first.

Nic Elliott 19:10

So yeah, I like that. And I guess I was chatting with a people director recently, and and his view was we shouldn't really even be having this conversation because it should just be taken for granted that that's a thing. But clearly there's still uh a school of thought that HR people are not commercial enough. Yeah. What is that your experience too?

Linda Sleath 19:33

Or yeah, yeah, and I think landing in a new business, yeah. I've there probably has been a couple of assumptions sometimes that uh oh well they're they're numbers, you don't get those numbers. Yeah, and I take great pride then in going, I really do know my numbers. I mean, I I would said to uh an old CEO of mine, I go, I like to feel the numbers though. I might go about the numbers a different way. Um and he was an ex-CFO, was rolled his eyes, yeah. But you can tell a story with numbers. Um, but there is that element of going, Yes, I do understand that.

Nic Elliott 20:05

Yeah.

Linda Sleath 20:05

Uh and sometimes I think we do have to try then twice as hard. Um because I think what's interesting, you wouldn't go to a finance person and go, you don't know how understand people, do you? By the way, that's not necessarily the case for all finance people. Yeah.

Nic Elliott 20:21

Factrap. Yeah, no, I I get what you mean though.

Does HR Have an Image Problem?

Nic Elliott 20:24

Okay, and and I guess that that probably then comes down to this perception that there is at the minute uh around the HR profession and uh particularly some press coverage that has been quite um unpleasant actually towards towards the HR community. Uh, there was a recent one where a CEO in America came out and said, I'd fired my entire HR team. You read the detail, you find out how you'd actually just slimmed them down and you know made them more operational focused um in reality. But there seems to be certain quarters, you know, or areas of the press who are drum uh beating a drum that is very anti-HR. Where do you think that's that's coming from and and how how best do people respond to that?

Linda Sleath 21:06

I think some of it is just broadly is driven by it used to be personnel and welfare. And I think the element of just staying behind the scenes all about policy, and you can't do that, and saying no, because you know, we all know that the very often leaders don't like to be told no. Yeah. Um sometimes you could do that, but you might want to think about doing it slightly differently. So uh I think we've created some of that ourselves. Uh that particular example, I think some of that is born out of the the broader political sphere around you know, HR are seem to be driving lots of um you know EDNI schemes, etc.

Nic Elliott 21:45

Yep.

Linda Sleath 21:46

It it's quite scary though to see the the the vehement sort of distaste sometimes I'd say is of of HR. Um I think something yeah it's driven by a lot of the times we don't simplify, we we do. Get in the way. We do get in the way. Um, and then with businesses that are have that ability to spin them all off and change them, that they can do that. So I think you know, we have to look at solutions, we have to be solutions driven. I think that's I've always tried to be. What are you trying to do? Let's look at how we can do that. Because me saying no should be the the last port of call. Because don't get me wrong, I will absolutely say you're not you're not doing that. I can do that my stage of the career, but try and find solutions. I think when you've got functions when that don't do that or aren't allowed to, because they actually might not even report into the business, you know, they might not have a seat at the top table. Yeah, it makes it very difficult to do that.

Speaker 1 22:43

Yeah.

Linda Sleath 22:43

Um, but yeah, that particular example, I did read that and go, you've just changed the the structure of it. And and actually that'll probably work really well. And you know, and I know that we've we've read some of the similar articles by a particular journalist.

Nic Elliott 22:56

Yeah.

Linda Sleath 22:57

Um, twitching, just even thinking about it. Um they're not helpful though, because they're generalized.

Nic Elliott 23:03

Yeah.

Linda Sleath 23:03

You know, it is those, you know, I I sort of see it on social media posts or HR the fun police. They don't care.

Nic Elliott 23:10

Yeah.

Linda Sleath 23:11

Actually, we do. We care a lot.

Nic Elliott 23:12

Yeah.

Linda Sleath 23:13

We care a lot. Or managers going, oh, HR told me I had to do it that way.

Nic Elliott 23:18

Yeah. And but at the same time, you must have plenty of examples where other like other professionals that operate within the business are like, we actually value HR. Yes. I've certainly seen you know, seen that in my working experience where you where you see a CEO who is sat next to his people director or her people director, and is like, I am absolutely having this person in the room for any of this really complex stuff because they are the expert in this area and they will guide me through this and help it go much better than it would otherwise. Yeah. And and that yeah, so that is regularly happening. Although I do appreciate what you say that that and I've kind of made this point, with any profession, there are some good professionals and some less good professionals, and therefore, you know, there's always room for improvement. But there's plenty of examples of this going well, yeah, and organizations succeeding as a result of the people side of the business, you know, contributing.

Linda Sleath 24:17

Exactly, because you know, I've I've been really blessed. I mean, I had a CEO that said, you know, um, he's given really good counsel, and you know, if I was worried, he should also be worried. Um, you know, my current CEO is he involves me, speaks to me, you know, what do you think about this? I think that's just really, really important because again, we we can help find solutions. But you can only do that once you've built relationships, is really important, you know, building that trust really early. And I've made a real point of of doing that in my current business because that helps the broader team to provide them with the confidence that you know we can do this, we're gonna get involved earlier rather than right, if I'd have known about that two weeks ago, I could have I could have helped you. But also, it isn't just about cleaning up the dirty stuff, it's it's going by the way, these this is what's going on externally with our competitors. We might want to think about doing X, Y, and Z. Yeah. Um, you know, innovation around systems, AI, you know, total rewards, all those things. We should be bringing that to the fore. But we need to take time for ourselves to do the outside in. Because I find it sometimes you get so involved internally you forget to see do the horizon scanning.

Building a Network That Supports Your Career

Nic Elliott 25:28

Yes.

Linda Sleath 25:28

Um, yeah, and that that gives you that credibility with your CEO.

Nic Elliott 25:32

And that that again, I I know we've spoken previously about how you feel like you've benefited from your network to that external view. But how how has that kind of been a positive for you? And have you kind of sought that deliberately, or has it kind of just happened?

Linda Sleath 25:48

It it kind of happened. I think I'm just a natural person to do that anyway, because um, you know, I think back to my time when I was in operations but it wasn't HR. I I talk to people, yeah. Um, you know, the CIPD do you call it curious? Or I just see it as being nosy, kind of going, oh, hello, what what are you doing? And I think it's interesting. So I started off again in pharmaceutical, very, very structured and linear. Um, and I haven't necessarily got an engineering brain. I mean, I've got a bit of a brain all over the place, but I'm fascinated by how things work, but fascinated by how people work. And just by that, I've just ended up just building an organic network, and I love introducing people to other people as well. Um, so for example, when I was at United Biscuits, I was um stepped out of my comfort zone and was part of a project to put in um a SAP HR and do a whole shared service implementation. And uh I remember I think the post office at the time had recently put a SAP HR. I just basically sent one of them a message going, Hello, can we come and have a look? And they were brilliant, came in, came to one of our meetings, etc.

Nic Elliott 26:53

Yep.

Linda Sleath 26:53

Um, and I just shamelessly do that and go, Oh, hello, that's really interesting. Um, and they just over time that just built. And then people go, Oh, speak, speak to Linda. Yeah, and I love helping people. Um, and and that stood me in good stead because, as I said to you earlier, uh, you know, I think since leaving UB, I've not actively gone for another job, it just happens.

Nic Elliott 27:16

Yeah.

Linda Sleath 27:16

Um, you know, somebody rang me and said, Oh, by the way, you've been recommended for this job, which happened to be Tayto.

Speaker 1 27:23

Yeah.

Linda Sleath 27:23

And the head hunter said, You're the first one that went, Oh my god, Taito! A taste of home.

Nic Elliott 27:29

It's the dream job, absolutely, absolutely.

Linda Sleath 27:32

Um yeah, especially because I'm gonna get to see my family when I go to the castle. But um, but yeah, I think being using your network is really important because and especially in HR, the the higher up you get, um sometimes you just need to bounce something off with a fellow HR professional and go, what would you do in this situation? Because it's very, very lonely at times.

Nic Elliott 27:54

Yes. U and and my experience is that's not something that HR professionals do naturally. No, they don't necessarily think what I need is a really good network because that's going to be beneficial to me in my career or to help me develop or to help me, you know, achieve what I need to achieve even in this role. It's not just about finding other jobs, is it? It's nothing good people that can help with with things where you are. And I've heard other people talk about the importance of that, and it tends to be the more successful senior people that have kind of cottoned on to the fact that that's a useful thing. So that makes sense. The other thing

Advice for HR Professionals

Nic Elliott 28:25

that we that I know you feel passionately about is resilience within the HR profession. And again, it kind of links to what we were talking about earlier about there, you know, being a bit of a pounding of the pre profession at the minute. How do you think that's going at the minute in terms of you know, because because actually HR professionals, there's a lot, you know, there's a lot thrown at them. Um, and that takes a toll, doesn't it?

Linda Sleath 28:50

It it does, because yeah, I I pride myself on being a true generalist, so you know, uh, sometimes it's mental whiplash. It could be, you know, somebody asks a question about employment tax, which I'm a bit of a geek about, through to organisational design, all that kind of stuff. So there's a lot that we're expected to know, and I think sometimes you don't have to know everything. Again, use your network, use your your your um people that you trust. But I think because of that, and because of the nature of people aren't black and white, and and actually I personally love playing in the grey, I love that. Oh, that was interesting. Um we get landed with some very, very extreme emotional circumstances, be that going through wholesale change, redundancies, etc., through to people come to work and they can't sometimes leave their personal life behind. Some of the things I've heard have been quite traumatic that people are going through. And we're not just expected to help the manager navigate that, but the individual. And you know, I know I've taken stuff home, and I can think of cases to this day that just bring me out in a cold sweat. So we have that and then have to then help the business navigate through that because sometimes situations where you have to part ways with with people, and it's when's that gonna be done? When's that gonna be done? It's emotionally trying, and again, especially through COVID, trying to navigate. What did Boris mean? I don't know, I'm just trying to get my head around it as well. Yeah, um yeah, it's a pounding, and if it goes wrong, HR, because we haven't got names, we're just called HR, which always makes me laugh. Um and uh and you and if I think a lot of people go into HR because they like helping people. Yeah, I'd argue I was fascinated by people, I like helping find solutions. So both very virtue, you do take a lot on board, and I think sometimes businesses forget that we also are human and we have we have our own lives that sometimes don't help matters. You know, I I know I've been through some personal challenges when it's difficult to help people navigate what they're going through when you're going, My life's a mess.

Nic Elliott 31:09

Yeah, I'm just holding it together myself.

Linda Sleath 31:11

Yeah, yeah, and and it's being kind to self and I think there's also that element of actually this is this worth it but I do think and I've only learnt this through being so I'm an uh an executive coach as well, and a going through the supervision you get being a coach, but also some other studies that I did, uh I've been lucky enough to go to Henley Business School, the importance of that, the importance of going to unpack what's been said to you. I mean, I've been caught all sorts of things, um, and uh I think that's really important, and I don't think it's seen necessarily as an in something that organisations should invest in for their HR teams. Yeah. Um, and again, we talked about you know Dr. Joe Burrell, who I think is amazing. Yeah, um never met her, but I think she's amazing. She's absolutely right, because you get supervision for therapists, for coaches, but we're all those things sometimes. Um and you know, I see a lot of I see a lot of burnout, you know. I think if I'm being honest, you know, there was a phase when I absolutely burnt out myself.

Nic Elliott 32:26

Yeah, yeah.

Linda Sleath 32:26

And actually that's okay. Yeah.

Speaker 32:28

Well it's not okay to be in that position in the first place, but it's okay to say that.

Speaker 1 32:31

Yes, yeah.

Linda Sleath 32:33

Um, yeah, because we do see a lot. I mean I've seen a lot that makes me laugh to this day, but a lot because ultimately, you know, when in the workplace there you see so many aspects of of society, um, you just don't know what people are going through. But very often HR, we find that out, and it's just yeah.

Nic Elliott 32:56

Yeah, and and and it's interesting. Uh I think it probably is in the context of the HR profession getting a bashing at the minute that I often think about that kind of stuff that you've talked about, and the fact that actually HR professionals can't really share that with many people, if anybody at all, because it's it's often so sensitive, so kind of emotional, or however you traumatic, whatever it is. As the person that's responsible for trying to make that better for the business and for that individual, that's a that is a lot to carry and it is a lot to process when actually from a pure confidentiality perspective, you can't really tell anyone about it. And and I think therefore a lot of that work probably goes under the radar, even with you know, fellow exec level people, because it's not appropriate to be sharing everybody's personal information left, right, and centre. Yeah. And and and that maybe is why some of the value of HR isn't seen in in quite the way that those of us that are in that world and dealing with it regularly, yeah, you know, see it.

Linda Sleath 33:59

Well, yeah, very often a lot of the stuff we do will never be right, the award goes to HR for this, you know, we you know, you can't quantify it, it goes, you you can't share it. Um, and you're right, there's times when, you know, A people come to you and they expect you to have you need to have all the answers there and then, and you're processing quite a lot of information, or you're sat there and you're having to absorb somebody's um, you know, they're not happy about a situation, and you can't say, Well, yeah, this is really difficult for me. You can you can't say that you need to we're like charcoal, you have to absorb it. Um and uh you know, still to this day, some of the some of the secrets I carry um and I take that responsibility and that obligation really seriously. But you're right, the business uh don't see that. Um and again, I think that's the role my role is to remind the business that hang on a second, the it's not easier for the function.

Nic Elliott 35:04

Yeah.

Linda Sleath 35:05

Um because you know, a process is a process. Numbers are, you know, add two together, you make an absolute. When it comes to people, it's not absolute. Yeah people will do silly things, people will say silly things, people will be going through some awful things, and invariably there's a HR professional at the end of it just soaking it all up. You know, again, there's a fair few HR professionals making a mess of all that as well, because I of advice from friends outside of work, I'm like, oh, okay. Yeah, not sure why they're doing that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh and we won't always get it right. Yeah, I'm not sitting here from a perfect perch.

Nic Elliott 35:41

Absolutely.

Supplier Shout-Out: MRA Executive Coaching

Nic Elliott 35:42

So with that in mind, um, again, one of the things I often ask guests is you know, advice for the profession. What would you say to that?

Linda Sleath 35:53

Um first of all, actually, don't give us that don't beat yourself up too much, because we we have a habit of doing that. I think um yeah, build a network, seek support. You know, if I just think of my day-to-day, somebody like, uh can I just talk this through with you? I think it's it's very rare that I get presented with something I haven't seen before. I'm like, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah. My mental roller decks. Um try not to take it personally as well, you know, providing you do right by people, and some of that is finding the business with the right culture for you as well. That's that's really important. And can you look yourself in the mirror at the end of each day, even the difficult decisions? Um and if you can't, go and do something else.

Nic Elliott 36:39

Yeah.

Linda Sleath 36:40

And then I think above all, have a sense of humour. I think that that's got me through so much. Um not always, yeah. I I my rule of thumb is if I'm my sense of humour goes out the door, oh hang a minute, this is this is not good. This is not good. Yeah. Um, but also knowing when to deploy that sense of humour. But I think knowing what you stand for, um, and then having that building those credible relationships, if you've got those, that makes life so much easier.

Nic Elliott 37:09

Yeah, yeah.

Linda Sleath 37:10

So um, yeah, because ultimately when you land in a new business, you know, you've got two ears and one mouth, just listen, seek to understand, and just soak it all up. But yeah, it's just loads of really good devices. Yeah. Oh, sorry. No, no, that's brilliant. Pearls of wisdom.

Nic Elliott 37:26

That's so good.

Linda Sleath 37:26

I don't want to take them myself, though.

Nic Elliott 37:30

And then and then finally, the other thing we have is a supplier shout-out. So uh we don't have a sponsor, although I'm I'm tempted to suggest Taito because they're so great. Um, but we've probably shouted that out enough for this episode. Um, but we do like to essentially highlight someone that you've worked with or an organization that you've worked with who you just think are great and and give them a bit of limelight um on the on the podcast.

Linda Sleath 37:58

Um well actually I'm gonna slightly different to what I said earlier. So um this is uh an organization that's always my go-to, um, and especially helping leaders be their best unbiased because I'm I'm a coach, but there's an organization called um uh MRA executive coaching, so Matt Radley Associates.

Speaker 1 38:18

Yep.

Speaker 38:18

Uh and uh I met Matt 15 years ago now and went through a coaching programme. It's his fault I became a coach.

Linda Sleath 38:25

Yep. Um, but pretty much every business I've gone to, I've brought him in some capacity with his fantastic um coaching associates who have helped people in my organizations but also me personally. So they are brilliant. MRA executive coaching, they're brilliant.

Nic Elliott 38:41

I've met Matt and I'm I have a feeling we've done quite a few episodes of the podcast now. I have a feeling that's not the first shout out for him and his team, which is great.

Linda Sleath 38:52

Unsolicited. Yeah. Actually, he's paid me 50 quid, but I was gonna say something's up.

Nic Elliott 38:56

No, no, I think you know it's testament to the impact that that he and the team are having, I'm sure. Yeah. So that's really good.

Linda Sleath 39:03

Yeah, I think that's a bit like having a network, kind of um having organizations like that that you trust and go, actually, do you know what you're gonna come in and you're gonna add value? Yeah, and I love that moment when I bring him into an organization, people go, Oh my god, that was that was brilliant.

Nic Elliott 39:17

That's really unlocked some performance. Yeah. I told you so, yeah. Yeah, well, and it reflects well on you, of course, doesn't it?

Speaker 39:23

As well, exactly, exactly, exactly. Important too.

Nic Elliott 39:26

Yeah, Fab, um, any closing thoughts? I think your advice to the profession is probably something we should just repeat.

Linda Sleath 39:33

Me.

Nic Elliott 39:34

Just because it was so good. Um, but any kind of final thoughts on any of what we've talked about?

Speaker 39:39

Yeah, I mean, first of all, I've really enjoyed this.

Nic Elliott 39:41

Me too.

Linda Sleath 39:41

I'm I'm conscious it might have been a stream of consciousness of my part, but maybe like therapy. Um no, just I think for me, uh genuinely I I'm really passionate about being a HR. I'm really proud. And I do love it when people go, Oh, HR, you work in HR, Matt.

unknown 39:56

Yeah.

Speaker 39:57

But we're not all we're not all the funpleys, far from it, in fact, invite us to a party. Yeah. Um, yeah, I think go into the profession with an open mind, uh, find a business that works for you, and you know, ultimately, I know I can look back on my career and just by the people that still are in contact with me, still those moments where I bump into people, yeah. I like to think I'm making a difference and and you can too. So um, so yeah, I've really enjoyed it.

Nic Elliott 40:26

That's a good rallying cry. That's it. Well, and I and I appreciate you coming on, it's been really good. We've been wanting to do this for a while, as we said. Um, I just love your enthusiasm for what you do, um, and you know, the product, obviously, as well. Um, but so yeah, thank you so much. I think it'll be really useful for all our listeners.

Speaker 40:43

That's it. And I will send you some cheeselinion because I have them in a cheese onion sandwich, is which is iconic and uh check it out, everyone. Yeah, but the right Tato with the right Mr. Tato. But thank you.

Nic Elliott 40:54

The perfect note to finish on. Thanks a lot.

Speaker 40:56

Thank you.

Nic Elliott 40:56

Thanks

Final Reflections

Nic Elliott 40:57

for listening to this episode of the HRD Talks podcast. Hopefully, you found the discussion helpful. If so, please follow us on your podcast provider to be notified of future episodes and share with friends and colleagues. For more information on the podcast, please visit actons.co.uk forward slash the HRD Talks.