Producing Confidence
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Producing Confidence
EP 11: The Importance of Project Controls with Donald Noland
Through our conversation with Donald Noland, Operations Manager for Project Controls at Performance Energy Services (a Danos Company), listen as we uncover the three essential pillars that form the foundation of effective project management: planning, scheduling, and cost controls.
Learn more about PES and Danos by visiting pesllc.com and danos.com.
Welcome everyone. Thank you for joining us today. I'm Samantha McGee, your host for today's Producing Confidence podcast, and joining me is Donald Nolan. Donald is Operations Manager for Project Controls at Performance Energy Services at Danos Company. Donald joined the Danos Group in January 2024 and has over 20 years of industry experience, with over 15 years dedicated to planning and scheduling. Welcome Donald.
Speaker 2:Thanks for having me. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 1:Glad to have you here. So, for someone who's not familiar, tell us what exactly is Project Controls and why is it so critical.
Speaker 2:Project Controls is somewhat interesting the way that the term controls. We actually don't control anything in what we do in the organization, but we're really a diagnostic in explaining where we've been in the past, where we are in the present and where we're going in the future on each individual project. And it's going to be three pieces to that it's the planning, it's the scheduling and then it's the cost controls. And those three items combined are what make project controls.
Speaker 1:Got it. So how does project controls and our team support our clients behind the scenes?
Speaker 2:So what we're able to do is we're able to give our client a look into what's going well or what did not go well in their projects and they can make changes in the present. They can look at past issues that they've had, make those corrections in real time. So what we the value we really offer to the client is giving them the ability to be able to improve each individual project and their bottom line associated with it.
Speaker 1:Got it. So if someone calls you at the beginning of a project, how would that play out? What does that look like?
Speaker 2:So it really starts with planning. Like that's where everything begins, and very much like a computer program or anything. It's only as good as the data that you put into the beginning. So planning is where we would start. We would sit down with the client, really discuss like their front end loading, like what needs to be done on the project. Is planning complete or not? If it's not complete, we could offer that service to them as planners. And then it kind of moves in after the planning into the scheduling phase.
Speaker 1:Gotcha, and so can you talk about how the scheduling and cost tracking really keeps the projects aligned with the client expectations and implementing that value of service that we provide and implementing?
Speaker 2:that value of service that we provide. Yeah, so scheduling and cost controls work hand-in-hand with one another. So scheduling, we're talking about time, how time elapses throughout the project, the flow of work happening in that space, and then cost controls are going to be layered over the top of the schedule to let you know how much money is being spent in that time. Obviously, time is money in our businesses, in all businesses, and cost increase can happen due to a number of different reasons. Number one is duration. Duration increasing and having the same workload. So what schedule is able to do? We're able to look at the cost, talk to the client and find out ways that we can reduce that duration while still giving them the end value of having a completed project.
Speaker 1:Got it, and so we're talking about, you know, a lot of money, as you mentioned, a lot of time, a lot of moving pieces. What are some of the biggest challenges that come up with project controls?
Speaker 2:You know, I wouldn't think that project controls would exist in a perfect world. That is, that is what we do. We are continually able to make changes on the fly. And give you a good example of that hurricanes. I mean, that's something that we deal with here in South Louisiana and it's absolutely makes a great impact on work that's being done, especially if you have a condensed timeline that you're working, such as a turnaround or a major project, and then you have a hurricane that shuts you down for could be anywhere from five days to three weeks, how do you get the client back up and running in a timely fashion?
Speaker 2:So project controls we're that diagnostic where they can go in. We can evaluate the scope of work that's remaining, and there's a couple different ways that you can decrease that duration. One is we could add more people if density will allow us to do that add more people if density will allow us to do that. And the second way is we can go with the client and we can do a scope evaluation like what items are of the highest risk, and we can go through those risk rankings with the planners and actually reduce some of that work scope for them that we could be doing at a later date.
Speaker 1:So I imagine working down here in South Louisiana you've run into a hurricane or two. Is there anything else that sticks out? You know how you were able to help a customer in that situation or what that looks like.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 2:So I think the last one that I really remember that sticks out in my mind was Katrina, and Gustav Devastated us as a state and a lot of these, the plants and facilities that we were working in, I mean completely shut them down.
Speaker 2:So Gustav probably I mean Katrina was just a, it was a game ender for for a lot of facilities, but Gustav sticks out probably as the one that had the greatest impact on Tom. Uh, we were working for a facility working two large heaters and Gustav took place and we were shut down for about seven days. I don't exactly remember the exact dollar amount that it cost for that plant to be down, but I'm pretty sure it was six digits or greater per day for them being down. Yeah, so we went in, sat down with their team, we somewhat did a little triage on what was taking place and we went in and we actually did a scope review and we were able to break out a piece of risk management that they had that they needed to work on and move it to a later date where we could still get everything done inside of their windows so they could get back up and running.
Speaker 1:I'm sure that was a lot of sweat and a lot of brain power, manpower going into all that.
Speaker 2:Again, it's quality planning on the front end their facility worked really hand-in-hand with us at that time and the quality of your plan. If you don't have a quality plan going in, there's no way of you knowing what you can remove, what you can't remove, the durations knowing exact durations on when things are going to take place and where they're going to take place inside the schedule. So I really can't speak enough about planning and how important it is on the front end.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so really important to not just call someone when you've got these problems, but to get ahead of it so you can plan the project from the beginning.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. Yeah, proactive is you have to be. But I'll tell you this, our industry, we're very reactive sometimes because we just don't have any other choice. So again I got to you know, beat that horse of planning. You have to have the right people in the right positions and that's the only way that you can handle these reactive issues.
Speaker 1:Got it. So let's talk about scalability. You know these project controls and planning logistics. It's not just for these huge, you know facilities. When hurricanes happen, what's that look like for a smaller customer?
Speaker 2:Well, that's the beauty of project controls and what we do Depending on how large that your project, that you're working. And whenever we talk about size, a lot of times it's not just dollar figures, it could just be the scope of work in and of itself. Like, how big is the scope of work? Uh, depending? I mean you could. You could have a project that just has one, one person that's that's running your schedule, um, also doing your, your cost tracking. But I really think that it's scalable because of the system that we use, having that framework of planning schedule, cost and our people, having people that are cross-trained, that are able to do those different items. That adds value to the client because instead of having three people, now that we can do it with one.
Speaker 1:So when you talk about the system, are you talking specifically about that process that you mentioned, those three steps? Are you speaking about a specific technology or just the way that our team runs it?
Speaker 2:It's our process, it's our team, the way our team runs it. I would love to say that I come up with it, but I did not. It's an industry standard. I come up with it, but I did not. It's an industry standard. I think of a good analogy. I mean everyone cooks a jambalaya a little differently, you know, but how do you get there and how consistent are you in it? And again, I mean I can't say enough about our people.
Speaker 1:It really all Some of the best jambalaya right, that's it. That's it Got it. So how does our team, the project control team, work alongside operations and safety and engineering?
Speaker 2:The more years that I have in the industry, the more I'm learning and I'm growing it's very interesting of how important that a schedule is for safety. So, first and foremost, whenever I think safety and I'm thinking about a client, I'm thinking process safety. And from a process safety standpoint, when are we coming down? When are we shutting down what? What valving is going to be blocked in? Uh, what needs to be blinded, that blind structure? Uh, all of that is going to. The schedule is going to lay it out in individual hours and days and when those things happen. So the value it really adds it allows you to sit down and have a discussion with the operations folks and we can actually talk about what's happening when, uh, we can talk about criticality of of what's the most important item that we're blocking in, what's the most dangerous, uh.
Speaker 2:So, from a process safety standpoint, working closely with operations, I'm kind of putting two together right there very, very critical in a turnaround schedule, especially from a safety standpoint. One of the things that I like to do is I like to do a overall risk review of individual work items and what we've done in the past is we will actually code inside of our schedule what we call them, we call them sticky with PES, the industry, we would call it life-saving rules and what we'll have is like working from heights, blunt force trauma, heights, blunt force trauma, the vehicles or heavy equipment and a safety person's able to go in and look at that schedule and they're able to filter out by what is my highest risk items I really need to be paying attention to for the next three shifts. So I really think that's where that probably comes into play.
Speaker 1:And you talked about breaking down the schedule down to the day, down to the hour. I'm sure things change, things happen. What does it look like when your team has to go in and reevaluate, reassess? Does that happen often? What does that look like?
Speaker 2:So again we go back to the hurricane discussion discussion we would call it a what-if scenario is probably the most common item in those. So what would happen is, whenever you have an issue or you think you have an impending issue that's going to be coming in the next 12 hours shift, however you're looking at it, we're able to go in and we're able to build a what-if schedule that tells the client what if this happens? What changes, how is that going to affect the end goal? So your cost is going to be overlaid in that what if schedule. But building what if schedules, discussing with the client in real time about what's going to potentially happen in the future or what is currently happening in the present, that's going to have an impact on it. That's how we're able to add value.
Speaker 1:And what role does technology play, particularly how you're able to communicate that to the customers.
Speaker 2:How we deliver the data. So Primavera software is industry standard. It is, since I think I've been operating in Primavera since 1999, 2000. So over 25 years the software has been in use. But the way that you explain that, how that data is delivered to the client I mean, if you look at a Primavera schedule, sometimes it just looks like a foreign language for those that haven't seen it it really is. It's tough. Even for people that work inside of the program every day. It can be a little daunting to try to get data out of it. So our scheduler is one of the things that we do. Not only do we teach them how to operate inside of the system, but we also have a system on the back end of how we deliver the data to the client. We clean it up, we make it much easier to understand and read. We're able to do those reviews with the client.
Speaker 2:Ai is probably the next well, no, it is the next frontier in what we do do. One of the things I see as the big value add from AI is us being able to analyze data and give the client an answer much faster. Are we there yet? No, this is something that we're looking into and trying to understand where do we fit in this AI world. But I see the future for us being able to analyze data and give client feedback much more quickly than humans are able to do it with AI.
Speaker 2:I don't think we'll ever replace the human element and that's not me selfishly saying that because we have people and people are our most important resource here but I don't think we'll ever replace people when it comes actually to the scheduling and the planning. Just because you're talking about time, you're talking about geographic locations, you're actually having to look and make assessments on the ground. But I do think there is a space for us for being able to analyze that data on the back end, even reporting I mean, that's some Power BI mixed with AI and us being able to give the client just a much more quicker and cleaned up, more concise reporting structure with it.
Speaker 1:So when we talk about, I guess, what you see for the future of your group evolving with that technology and taking on more complex projects what does that look like?
Speaker 2:It is interesting to see the journey that every client is on and where they're at, and project controls. Some of our clients are at a level one and some of our clients are at a level 10. In between the two, it is the technology that is consistently evolving and I really think that we just have to stay on top of these new innovations. I talked about clients being at a 1 and at a 10. It's because whenever you ask me that question, some people are not even beginning to start track calls finding out where they're at on projects. To start track calls finding out where they're at on projects. Prior to my working with Danos and with PES, that is one of the things that I would do. Working in my current job is I would go to different sites and actually explain to them and let them understand how easy it is just to manage your projects more effectively and how much money it saves you on the back end. So I was blessed to be able to learn that the technology piece it's continuously changing. The technology piece it's continuously changing.
Speaker 2:Primavera, I think, has went through 10 to 12 different variations of it since 19. I was in it in 98. I think it was around 92 or 93 when the software started Microsoft Excel, I mean, one of the most powerful tools that we use. We use that for all of our reporting. Excel today is a much different beast than it was whenever I dealt with it when I learned this industry 18 years ago. So we just really try to stay on top of that technology. The clients push us A lot of times. They'll be changing to a new version of Primavera which forces us to be able to go and learn the new ways. It's managing change with technology. That's probably the toughest thing we do in our industry.
Speaker 1:I'm sure the technology is constantly evolving. Going back to what you said about how you know when you got started, how it was different, how Primavera's changed and how also just Primavera's reading a different language to people who don't know about it, if someone was interested in getting into project controls, what route would they take or what would that look like?
Speaker 2:This is my favorite conversation. So in today's time, you know, a lot of the folks that we're picking up and bringing into the organization are that demographic of the 24 to 35. They're coming out of college, they're having a construction management degree and they're coming in and then we're training them the field so they understand what's happening in the field. My passion is finding people from the field and teaching them the project management and the project control piece. I think there's a lot of value in our men and women, craftsmen, that are working in the field. They have a lot of years, they have a lot of knowledge, a lot of understanding of what's going on, and you must capture that value and there's two ways you're going to do it. You're either going to try to have a conversation with those folks and extract information out of them, or you can bring them on the team, teach them our process and our technology that we use, and then we get to extract that value out of them that they have that someone in the field to get into this if they're interested in it.
Speaker 2:Is they really need to get Microsoft Excel in their toolbox? That's really it. That's where it all begins, primavera, if you look at the system and how it works. It is bits and pieces of Microsoft Excel that has been tailor fit into just building the schedule. So I really think going and getting some Excel classes for those men and women craftsmen that are working in the field, if they want to be able to get into this world, I think Microsoft Excel is a great start. Primavera. It's not something I usually tell folks to just go out there and take this class and try to learn it. It would be the equivalent of someone teaching me open heart surgery without me knowing anything or the other pieces of it. I can do it, but I'm probably not going to be as effective as I could be, and so I think Microsoft Excel for beginners, that's what's done.
Speaker 1:And there's a lot of online courses for just Microsoft. Excel that anyone could take.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. And again I mean we love our people. I really love to see people take that initiative and go learn it and say, hey, I've got this in my toolbox. I've also got five to ten years experience in the field. Can you help me? Can we like learn this together? And it's a lot of value in capturing that knowledge. A lot of value in capturing that knowledge.
Speaker 1:Yeah, a lot of experience that you're not going to get anywhere else other than just working out in the field.
Speaker 2:That's it. You got to have a few sunburns and a few blisters. And you know, I'll give you a good example, a great example. I can teach someone to plan. We can show someone how to plan. They can understand how much time it's going to take to fit a 12-inch pipe, how much time it's going to take to do a weld. But what you don't know is how does heat affect you in doing those items? And until you've been out there in the field, heat affect you in doing those items and until you've been out there in the field, I can't tell you how many conversations and little battles that I've had to mediate in between folks that understand how much time it takes but don't understand.
Speaker 2:It's not about that. You could double the duration of a task working in a 103 degree heat index, cold weather. I went and worked up north in freezing temperatures, which is something that I had never done before, and I had to go back to school. I had to learn. A steam leak here really means nothing to us. I mean local plants and facilities around us. Whenever you have a steam leak, it's just you know another day, no big issue, it gets fixed over time. It usually is ranked extremely low on their priority task, but a steam leak in New Jersey can cause a ice block as big as a Volkswagen. It's a safety hazard. It's an issue. The added weight that's added from that. You can't teach that in school. Those are things that you got to see yourself. So I hope I was able to answer that Absolutely.
Speaker 1:Yes, thank you. And so for employees and customers who may not interact directly with Project Controls, what's one thing you want them to know about the value that your team brings?
Speaker 2:I'm going to say we can let you see the future, we can correct your issues from the past and we can help you work inside of the present more effectively. How wonderful is it to be able to have a crystal ball, to be able to know where you're going with a certain level of accuracy one month out, one day out, half a shift out. That is the value that we add, and then, on top of that, we're able to work with the customer and show them what's that going to do to the bottom line of the project. How is that going to affect cost? If we decide to make this change, is it going to cost us more money? Is it going to cost us less money? Where does that fall out at? In large organizations that are spending hundreds of thousands of dollars a month? It allows them to be more rateable with their cost. A lot of times they're dealing with shareholders and they have to understand where they're going to be at a minute's notice with their financials, and project controls gives them that value on their projects.
Speaker 1:So your team is offering a lot of value. Clearly, you've helped me understand a lot about project controls, something that I didn't know a lot about before, so thank you so much for joining us. Is there anything else you wanted to add?
Speaker 2:I think the last thing is probably just people. I mean, you can have the greatest of tools, you can have the greatest of process, but what I value about this company and what I value the most in my organization is our people, and it's one of our core values at Danos and at PES, and it's something that I strive to improve on. Not only are we delivering these projects on time, ahead of schedule or behind schedule God forbid if something happens we're also developing people, and I think if you are not putting that at the top of your list in an organization, you're missing the boat, so to speak. So people I think that's the most important thing to end with.
Speaker 1:Yeah, absolutely, Thank you. You really helped me tie that up together, throwing our purpose in there. Honor God. Develop great people to solve big challenges for our customers and communities.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much, donald, appreciate you being here.
