The Works Podcast
The Works Podcast
A conversation with Luke Zelley
In this episode, we speak with Luke Zelley, CEO of the Disability Network, in honor of October being National Disability Month.
The Disability Network is a local, private non-profit in Genesee County that believes in a world where everyone has value. The Disability Networks connects people to businesses, with the thought process that everybody has potential. They help shine a light on traits that some would look at a person with a disability as a “weakness” and use it as a strength in the workforce.
Luke explains that if they can get people to rethink disabilities, it will remove the unconscious bias most people have for the disabled. Not everybody with a disability needs an accommodation. Their mission is to change the perception, the way people see others with disabilities, by being bold enough to have these conversations and change peoples minds about what a disability looks like or what it doesn’t look like, taking the disability “stigma” out of the workplace.
To learn more about the disability network, please visit https://www.disnetwork.org.
For a full transcript of this podcast, click here.
Welcome back to The Works podcast. October is National Disability Employment Awareness Month(NDEAM). At GST Michigan Works! we believe it is so important to raise awareness of the employment potential of people with disabilities. This year, the U.S. Department of Labor announced a theme for National Disability Employment Awareness Month and it’s The Right Talent Right Now and we couldn’t agree more. This aims to emphasize the essential role that people with disabilities play in our country’s economic success. Today, I’m pleased to welcome our guest, from The Disability Network, Luke Zelley.
Music Intro:[ Music]
Jessie Billiau:Hello and welcome to The Works! a podcast by GST Michigan Works! where we explore strategies to attract and retain the best talent Michigan has to offer. So, without further ado, here’s your host, Jessie Billiau. Welcome back to The Works! Podcast. This month we have the opportunity to talk with Luke Zelley from The Disability Network. For anyone who doesn't know, October is National Disability, Employment Awareness Month. And at GST Michigan Works! we believe it's important to raise awareness about the employment potential of people with disabilities. So we thought who better to invite to our table then you, Luke. So, welcome.
Luke Zelley:Yeah, thank you, I appreciate the opportunity to be here and really talk about this important population of folks that often gets overlooked and has a ton of talent and is ready like right now to be hired.
Jessie Billiau:Absolutely. So tell us a little about The Disability Network and the work that you do.
Luke Zelley:So The Disability Network, we are a local, private, nonprofit here in Genesee County and we really believe in a world where everyone has value. And so, part of that, at The Network, is helping to connect people. Uh, really people, anybody, people with disabilities, um, could be seniors, parents, um, young kids, old doesn't matter, age, disability. Uh, we want to connect them in the classroom, we want to connect them in the workplace, we want to connect them in their community. We want to connect them in their families cause we just believe everybody has potential.
Jessie Billiau:Absolutely. You know, a lot of the discussions that we have on The Works! Podcast, uh, center around community and you know, obviously we work very much in the talent space, but you know, without a place, talent, you know, can't thrive. And so, you know, it is very important to create a vibrant community. And I was looking at your site and some of the fun things that you're doing. Um, you were talking in the preparation time here about repelling from buildings and kayaking and kind of putting a whole different face on, uh, the work that you do. So, maybe we could talk a little bit about that.
Luke Zelley:Yeah, I'll kind of start by saying that, um, about four years ago, our board, uh, looked at our community, you know, what, uh, does the assets and talent look like? Uh, and well, we looked at, um, was for Flint, our goal is to have Flint and Genesee County have the highest percentage of people with disabilities working in the nation. And so again, I think, um, this conversation right here at this time is so important. Uh, but for the 20,000 folks with disabilities and Flint who aren't working, and you've got 43% of them have a college education. So there's talent there. And how do you get them off the sidelines? How do you reach out to them? And, they're not always signing up for, um, uh, a job fair or a resume workshop. So, uh, yeah, we're doing innovative things like inclusive kayaking. We are repelling over 10 story buildings. And when you see somebody in a wheelchair or somebody with a disability repelling 10 stories, I mean, all of a sudden the thought of working or accommodating somebody in the workplace doesn't seem so farfetched. It doesn't seem so difficult. Um, so a lot of what we've done over the last two, three years, there's really trying to change the perception and the way people think about disabilities.
Jessie Billiau:Wow, that's fantastic. In the prep for this, you had sent me a great resource, which I would love to share in the show notes for this podcast and our website. Um, but it really is such an eyeopener when you think about, um, you know, you mentioned in our conversation, um, being bold enough to have difficult conversations and yeah. And change people's minds about what a disability is or, or it looks like or maybe doesn't look like. Um, so I, I noticed that on your site there's a number of resources like that. Um, and you realize how often you're involved in conversations that maybe, are using even old language.
Luke Zelley:Yes. Uh, I'll tell you some of this started with, um, some conversations with local business leaders, but there was a corporate trainer that diplomat hired, uh, Dave Randell that talked about, um, his training is around'Freak Factor' and it's really embracing your weaknesses as a strength. And so we started to think like, what if disability wasn't a tragic thing? What if it wasn't a stigma? What if it wasn't just people in wheelchairs who are people who are blind and people who are deaf. It is those folks. But it's also people with diabetes is people with learning disabilities, ADHD, asthma. It's so much broader. Yeah. And as Dave Randell has training, you know, when he looks at weaknesses, you know, a lot of times folks, um, who might be perceived as a weakness that they are a blunt or rude. Well, it's also a strength. They're honest and they're direct. And when you start to look at people's weaknesses as a potential strength and put them in positions where they can be successful, uh, you might not want somebody blunt and direct on the customer service side of things, but you might want them in operations. Yeah. Or someone that, uh, is really, you know, viewed as a weakness that they're really rigid or they're too structured and that's a person you want in your finance department, someone that's going to follow the rules and interpret things the right way. Right. So part of that, uh, begin is trying to look at our community in Flint and that 20,000 people with disabilities who are just waiting to be asked to work not as a weakness or a population that doesn't have skills. It's just the opposite. They have college education, they have soft skills. And so how do you draw that talent in? Sure. And so, you know, part of what we're doing, uh, we can talk more about is, uh, some of the trainings that are happening at the Chamber of Commerce and some great initiatives in Flint in hiring and recruiting companies.
Jessie Billiau:Fantastic. When you talk about 20,000 people in a community that are on the sidelines ready to go to work, you know, the work that we do every day working with employers, I mean that the need for talent is so great and, uh, you know, the tools, I feel like, you know, trainings and additional opportunities for networking, for businesses around this conversation are so important because it's shifting from the limit limitation conversation to, um, accessibility as an everyday thought. Um, even as you're describing those particular characteristics, for example, the, the finance person being very detail oriented. You know, we're used to doing that every day and figuring out ways around it or we have expectations of, uh, individuals in customer service because that's, you know, they have the, the right skillset for that or personality type for that. And you know, I think that they're, the old way of thinking is that, um, we've had this conversation with our mrs partners a few times too, you know, a lot of times we make assumptions about the needs of individuals with disabilities and that person may not require those things that you think they need. Uh, when was the last time you gave them the opportunity to express what their needs were? And it's probably not what you're thinking.
Luke Zelley:Yeah, I think one of the coolest experiences I had with Michigan Works!, This was probably about four years ago and there were some companies in Lansing that actively wanted to hire people with disabilities. So Meijers was one of them and they just could not find talent in Lansing. And knowing the population we had in Flint, a Michigan Works! hosted a job fair. So just a 60 random people, you know, in the Michigan Works! systems, uh, took a leap, came to a workshop and we talked about disabilities, what they are. Um, and at the beginning of the, uh, training, you know, you've got 60 people in the room when you ask how many people have disabilities? None. I mean, no one's gonna self identify as having a disability. And as you talk through what it is, um, you know, a gentleman came up and said at the end, I'll kind of give it away. At the end, we had about 45 out of 60 that had disabilities. Uh, 45 got on a bus, they went to Lansing, they interviewed for jobs and 43, got hired on the spot. Amazing. And so again, when you're kind of rethinking disabilities, it's not always somebody in a wheelchair. It's not always, a these assumptions. And I'll tell you, there was, uh, a company in Detroit, uh, that was actively trying to hire people with disabilities and we, their assumption was just like you were saying, every person with the disability needs an accommodation. And, uh, this is a large corporate company, uh, tens of thousands of employees. And so I asked him, just curious, uh, you have employees who have diabetes and they said yes, I'm like, do they all have accommodations? No. You know, they know how to manage their own disability. And it could be something as simple as, um, somebody who is hypoglycemic. They might have some extra food or snacks in their drawer. They might need a break from time to time. Uh, these are not expensive accommodations or major things. It's just employers that want to have the most productive workforce and employees that reached their full potential. They're the ones that are looking at this talent pool.
Jessie Billiau:Absolutely. We have a lot of conversations around being an employer of choice. And so much of that has to do with really knowing and understanding the needs of your workforce. And many times, um, those accommodations are, are inexpensive or, or, you know, in some cases it just requires a little bit of flexibility that most people are more than willing to work within.
Luke Zelley:Yeah. You know, I wonder, uh, I think about every single study that's ever been done. I mean, you're talking major studies of folks with disabilities in the workplace for the past 50 years, all show the same thing. Whether it's, uh, DuPont, Sears, IBM, Meijers, Walgreens, it's employees with disabilities perform at a higher rate. They have less absenteeism. I mean, they are great employees. And then you wonder why. I mean, why don't folks tap into that? And I think over the last few years, we've really come to understand an unconscious bias that people have. So, and you see it, uh, you know, Starbucks shutdown all of their stores around an unconscious bias training and Sephora, same thing uh, shutdown their stores and I think around disabilities, uh, they did a study a few years back that 75% of people are just terrified to walk up and have a conversation with somebody with a disability. Because, when somebody looks different than you or talks or walks different than you, it's totally normal to have discomfort. Yeah. So once you understand that bias and you can overcome that, that's when you realize not every person with the disability needs an accommodation. And here's the real mind bender. I mean this is the one that, uh, really that document that we shared ahead of time, when you think about the hundreds and hundreds of disabilities that are covered under the Americans with disabilities act or the hundreds and hundreds of disabilities that, um, are out there, most people have a disability, they just don't know it or they don't self identify. Sure. Absolutely. There was a, the CDC, just as an example, uh, reports approximately 150 million people have disabilities. So these are kind of the medical diagnosis. And, but yet the census where people self identify- only 50 million- identify. So almost half of adults have disabilities, but they don't think of it um, in a way that's a negative or if it is, it's a stigma. They don't want to share it in the workplace. Sure. U m, there's a relative of mine that's a nurse and she was applying for a job and a lot of companies now have give opportunities for people to self identify if you are a LGBTQ or if you're a minority or if you're a woman or if you have a disability. And it's, it's really used just on the recruiting front end. U h, because companies want to be diverse, they want to be employers of choice. And, u h, she chose not to select that out of fear that they would discriminate against her. And it's really just the opposite. The employers that are asking that are not trying to weed people out. We're trying to weed people in. Right. They want great employees.
Jessie Billiau:Absolutely. You know, even as you're describing some of those different circumstances were, or for example, the fear of even approaching someone, it really calls to my mind that, uh, in many cases, depending on what the, maybe if it's a visible disability, that person actually may be uniquely qualified to handle troubleshooting and problem solving situations because they've had to, uh, interact with a community and a world of individuals that don't know how to react to them. Um, which is a strength really for most employers.
Luke Zelley:Yes. Uh, when you start to drill down, and again, I think, um, the chamber is training on an unconscious bias is really helpful, uh, when folks can really look at, um, Hey, these are some of the perceptions or stereotypes, but this is really my lived experience around disability that, um, you know, they tend to be great problem solvers. They tend to plan ahead. They are great communicators because they've had to be. Um, but again, it's, um, part of that, you know, I think is changing the perception of weaknesses, really as strengths. It's understanding your biases and then getting a really good game plan on, again, more than just people with disabilities. How do you have a culture and a workplace where everybody is reaching their potential? It's when you do that, um, people with disabilities tend to thrive.
Jessie Billiau:Right. But it makes sense. I'm a huge, I've probably brought it up on this podcast before. I'm sure I talk about Brene Brown all the time. I'm a huge fan, but you know, with some of the, and some of the conversations that we have in our organization, we did an unconscious bias training for our entire staff and, and um, and it was uncomfortable. I mean, it is certainly an uncomfortable, um, experience for some. Um, and very eyeopening. And you know, what's interesting about that when, when I think about, you know, your statement about being brave enough to have conversations and rumble around these conversations, but it's also consistently, um, keeping your team and your organization up to date. Um, you know, it's not something that everybody really wants to admit. I mean, you like to think, I'll speak for myself, that you don't have any unconscious bias until you're faced with a robust training that points out like, Oh, I guess I am still thinking backwards about that. Or you know, maybe there's an opportunity to think differently about that. And so creating those opportunities for change, but I think also just consistently as part of your, your hiring structure and yet your plan, um, most employers, most organizations have some level of turnover. Um, so you're introducing new people to your hiring processes all the time. Um, and just because you say it as part of your mission or your strategic goals, are you really living those things out in your practice day to day. So it's interesting to think about those organizations that, as you say, are asking those questions upfront to intentionally be more inclusive versus, you know, those that maybe feel like, well, we've, we've given it a good effort, we did an unbiased, I can unconscious bias training last year.
Luke Zelley:You know, it's, uh, it's really fascinating, and we get a lot of calls from employers that are asking for help with accommodations. We've got a great employee, don't want to lose them. How can we keep them? Or we've got an employee that, um, of a company that might call and say, Hey, I'm really concerned about this, you know, how can I self advocate for myself? Or how can I, um, you know, make a change in the workplace. And, you know, I was thinking this, um, one executive called, uh, and she said in her workplace, she's got coworkers that talk negatively about disabilities. So, uh, if, and again, it's just water cooler type talk, but it's, uh, man, you know, can you believe that a child with autism was screaming the other day? That- man, I would never, you know, if I had a child like this or a man, if I had this disability, I would just kill myself. I mean, these are conversations that we'll have. Sure. And here's somebody standing right next to them. It has a child with a disability or, or they have that disability. And so those type of conversations, you never know who has a disability. We, most everybody has a disability or know somebody with a disability. Um, I'll say just kinda one quick joke that I'm a friend share around how when you think of, um, people who have obsessive compulsive or anger management, uh, you know, conflict, uh, issues, these are typically your CEOs of companies you're talking about. So yes, there are leaders with disabilities, uh, but we did a training for a local company. We had 50 of their top executives come in and uh, asked how many had a disability and it was kind of an anonymous clicker activity and two out of 50 self-identified and the end to the training, once you kind of reframe it and you understand what it is, a 45 out of the 50. And it was really an aha moment that wow, it's not that we have to do some extra effort, uh, some new things to hire people with disabilities. We're already hiring people with disabilities. We have people with disabilities in our workplace. Yes. That we could be embracing, we could be championing. And that opens the door for those 20,000 people. I mean, who wouldn't want to work at a place? Um, yeah, I kind of draw the analogy that, uh, what a company, if they did an internal survey and they found that 95% of their employers who are LGBTQ, obviously they're open. Uh, they're, uh, an inclusive workplace. Um, but would they change their conversations? Would they change their recruiting? Yeah. And I think the answer is yes. So the same thing on disability, that once, you know, when you have that aha moment that 20,000 people on the sidelines and Flint doesn't seem like a scary population, it doesn't seem like a population that you can't reach. It's the opposite. They are just like you. Yeah. So.
Jessie Billiau:Absolutely. Well, and I, I love the idea of organizations that are doing work to create a more open and inclusive culture. So that it, for those that are trying to enter the workforce with a disability, if they don't have an extra unnecessary barrier to employment, and that's just undefined, there are already enough defined barriers that we're aware of just getting employed in, in, in cases for many people, transportation, certainly one of them. Um, that affects anyone, whether you have a disability or you don't. Um, but certainly I think that creating a community that is welcoming, opening, and constantly educating organizations about how to improve your culture and, uh, take advantage of the opportunity of hiring very skilled individuals in a time, especially, you know, all the time, but especially when we have employers every day that are saying how great their talent needs are.
Luke Zelley:And, you know, businesses don't have to do it on their own. We've got great partners here in Flint and Genesee County. So Michigan works is a partner. They can help with this. Um, Michigan rehab services, uh, you know, an employment agency for folks with disabilities. Uh, the chamber of commerce has great resources and I'll tell you the, one of the newest members of our community I'm really excited about is an organization called Peckham. Uh, they do advanced manufacturing, uh, military clothing. And I'll tell you, it was a really competitive, it took about four years to bring them to Flint. Amazing. Uh, they're hiring 200 people, uh, with plans to grow. Um, you know, I see the need and Flint out. They could hire 600 people in three years. Wow. The contracts are there. And these are contracts that are specifically targeted for hiring people with disabilities. So yeah, 70% of their workforce are people with disabilities. So you have people with and without disabilities working side by side. But this company, uh, Peckham really, uh, if folks wanted to see it in practice, what does an inclusive workplace look like? Uh, it's a great organization because sometimes you have to see it to believe it. I mean, you hear it and it sounds it's too good to be true. Um, and Peckham, um, you know, opened up their business here back in June. They did our grand opening just last week. And what they shared was that, of their 3000 employees across the United States, that Flint, uh, people with disabilities in Flint, making military clothing had a higher percentage of productivity, higher on time rate, less absenteeism. The best workforce they have is here in Flint. And people don't know that. And they've specifically targeted people with disabilities and it was competitive. You know, they could have looked at Arizona, they could looked at Detroit, they should've looked at grand Rapids. They chose Flint because of the disability population. It was not Flint because it was a weakness or the water crisis or a tragedy. It was the opposite. Flint has, um, we've got strengths, they have assets. They have people with disabilities who want to work.
Jessie Billiau:Absolutely. I couldn't think of a better success story than sharing that. What's, what's next? What do you, what are you looking forward to in the next year at The Disability Network?
Luke Zelley:So, uh, you know, I think with, uh, with The Disability Network, our goal is really to keep pushing out this change in attitude. Uh, we have been actively, uh, helping companies with job fairs and try to reach out to the disability community. And I'll just share one example at a job fair. Uh, there was, and I'll, you know, for folks that are in the Flint, Genesee County or you know, this about our community with, you know, the high poverty rate and um, what tends to happen is you get cycles of poverty or you get cycles of disability and you can break that. I mean, the people listening today, employers and service providers, you can break that cycle by including people with disabilities. At a recent job fair, there was a mom and a daughter. The daughter is in her 20s and was applying for the job and she shared that um, at a job interview the previous week she went to apply as a fast food place, 28 year old and she needed help filling out the application. And, the restaurant manager said, I'm sorry, we don't hire people with disabilities here. Oh my goodness. You can't say that, I mean, it's illegal, but it happens every single day. People don't feel welcome. They don't feel invited to be a part of the workforce and contribute. So she didn't apply and she felt like she'd never be able to work. But when partnered on a job fair, you got somebody that showed up. If somebody that trusted, uh, the Disability Network or trusted the employer that was intentional, it was sincere, it was a real opportunity. What was so exciting is not only did the daughter apply, but the mother who was on disability who wasn't working also applied. She had no intention of applying. But when she came in and she saw this is an opportunity, uh, she has skills and talents. So there are people that have had great work experiences that have been out of the workforce for health or disability reasons, but they've recovered or they're ready to get back in and they just need an employer to see the talent, not the weakness, see the strength, uh, and provide an opportunity. And these are for qualified employees. I mean, you have to have the skills, you have to have the talent. Uh, but if you look, uh, it's there.
Jessie Billiau:Right. Absolutely. Equal opportunity. Yes. That's fantastic. Well, thank you so much for joining us on the podcast. We're looking forward to hopefully partnering with you on some projects in the future. Um, but every day we're a, a willing partner to help spread the word and change mindsets and create opportunities for folks with disabilities to go to work in our community.
Luke Zelley:Well, thank you for again, Disability Employment Awareness Month, October, uh, putting a focus on it. Uh, we do this every month. Yes. So, uh, feel free to reach us. Uh, The Disability Network. Uh, our website is, DISnetwork.org and folks are always welcome to pick up the phone, eight one zero seven, four, two 1800, uh, reach out to partners, but thank you. Thank you. Yup.