So you're thinking about running but not sure how to take the first step. My name's Brian Patterson and I'm here to help, and welcome to Brian's Rumpod. Well, welcome back to Brian's Rumpod and thank you very much to listening to the second part of my interview with Colleen McKenna. In part two of my interview I started off by asking her if feeling comfortable with her running comes naturally to her. Do you?
Speaker 1:I always sometimes look for when I'm going for my run. I'm kind of, maybe this is the promised land I'll go for my run, but I'm not struggling and I'm enjoying it and whatever There's my come naturally to you? I mean, is this something that when you go for your run, after five minutes you're really enjoying it and you enjoy the feeling of running and you enjoy the? you know you're outside, you're taking in the surroundings and you're enjoying that? you're working hard and that kind of thing? I suppose what I'm trying to say is that for me sometimes it can be a struggle but I have to complete it. You know I said I'll do 5k or whatever. Is that something that comes naturally to you or not?
Speaker 2:So, interestingly, i yeah, as I said, i almost always have a distance set out in my, like a minimum distance. I'm going out the door, you know. I know I kind of, and I've got little roots all around.
Speaker 1:That I know roughly how long it takes.
Speaker 2:So usually I have a distance and I try not to come home in less than that distance, but sometimes I think, oh, this is going really well, i'll just. I can extend it with this little loop here or there And I really like to get to that. So usually the first mile feels rubbish, no matter how, what kind of shape I'm in and you know how much. That's 20 yards.
Speaker 2:It's awful And so I kind of consign myself to thinking the first, the first miles are warm up, but I really like to get to that place where it feels good and you're looking around you're thinking, oh, i like this. There's a really nice poem by a guy called Tony Harrison, called a cumquat, from John Keats, but he's got a line in it That is this is how a good life ought to feel. And so I sometimes have that in my head when I'm thinking, okay, this is it, this is what this is good. And it might be in Bushey Park, it might.
Speaker 2:It's usually somewhere, not on a busy road, where you just you're feeling comfortable, nice pace, but not not really gasping, like I usually am at Park Run, and just just kind of enjoying the moment. And I think I guess that's one of the things I really like about running is it's one of those times in my life where I feel I really think this is a good moment, here and now. I'm enjoying what I'm doing. And I maybe sometimes get that on my bike, but but I really can sometimes get that not always, but in running, and I know that's been a good run And usually it's got to be decent enough weather. You know, i don't feel like that in the pouring rain or when I'm absolutely frozen, everything kind of comes together.
Speaker 1:Yeah, sort of thing, you know sort of all. Yes, and, like you said it, sometimes it does depend on on the you can. You can go on a route and then you in and you know you're running a good pace. You can even take a phone. you know you can, even if you want to take a telephone conversation or whatever, and it's and it feels good.
Speaker 2:But every now and again it's just like you know if I can get that feeling again And you know, in a strange thing, i think, when I was like a younger runner, it was always about running fast and running good times, and I think, as an older runner, that it's great to have those moments. I mean that it's really nice for that to be the kind of goal of running, rather than constantly thinking, oh well, i'm not going to be as fast as I'd like to be yourself, you know, if you kind of reorient yourself to what it is running can give you and how you can appreciate it. I think for me it's those kind of moments of a little bit of clarity and just just feeling positive. And you know, there's some bits. It may be running downhill slightly or something. You know that feeling where it's a little bit less effort and you just can really enjoy running and your hair flying back or whatever.
Speaker 2:You know, as I don't know as adults, where do we? it's almost like that freedom that you can have as a child. You know, it's almost like. I think there are very few other elements in my life where I get that kind of absolute freedom again that you got as a kid, just running around, and I feel like that's. That's one of the. I think that's like, apart from all the other sports I've tried or done, it's running that kind of gives that to me And I think that's one of the reasons I want to kind of hold on to running as long as I possibly can in my life, because it's just such a I don't know, it's such a kind of special moment that you sometimes get And but I, you know I'm trying, like you said, i don't want to paint too rosy a picture of my running, because quite a lot of it's just a bit of a slog and I'm working hard or out of breath or whatever, thinking Oh God, another three miles, but, but.
Speaker 2:But you do get those lovely moments And I think there's something really special Do you ever look at other people and watch them run?
Speaker 1:Because I'm doing that in drinking increasingly now, even doing this podcast. is I look at other people and watch them run. I'm thinking, Oh, I wish I could run like that.
Speaker 2:I'll tell you when I do that, when I volunteer at park run, that's the only time I see the front runners and they some of them are just flying in their elegant and long stride and tempo and rhythm all looks so good, yeah, so you do see that. Or if you go out in one and I think about running in bushy, is there some really top notch runners who run there. I mean Becky Briggs, for example. I often see her out running there and she was the where you used to get the Kenyans.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right, that's right, that's right, see them And you see, you see, you see some really top notch people out training there and that's that's a nice place to just look at the forum and you think that's incredible. The form and the speed are really impressive.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, it's like watching ballet or it's effortless. Yeah, the way they do it. You know it's and it's something, yeah. Something to strive for inspiration. Yeah, that's, that's one way of putting it, do you? So what do you do? you listen to music, or you're?
Speaker 2:an audio book. I like sort of podcasts about running, but I actually don't listen to them. While I'm running, i always listen to podcast, i always listen to music, and I find that it's funny because I actually naturally just run a little bit faster when I'm listening to music. It's without, without even really trying, so yeah, so I've got just a list of my playlist on my phone. That just is. That's only for when I'm out running. Have you.
Speaker 1:Do you ever think that running without music Do you ever think? I haven't tried that for years, but do you think having without having that distraction if you call it distraction Do you think it might help you?
Speaker 2:Well, i think it does something different. So I do run without music, at least once a week, and it definitely makes me more aware of my surroundings and in a way that maybe I can be a bit more appreciative of where I'm running is. I think the thing with music is it almost blocks everything out, so I'm really just so focused in a kind of zone, whereas without that It means I'm much more, i guess, present in the area I'm running and so I'll. So I'm yeah, so it's. So I find a run is more enjoyable with music. So that's probably why I usually play music. But But I do run, at least usually once a week without music, and it just kind of keeps me a little bit more. It's hard to explain, it's, it's. I feel like I'm just engaging with the sport a little bit differently.
Speaker 1:Yeah, okay, and and do you listen to sort of quite uptempo music? was that you do?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah yeah, it's quite an eclectic mix, but it's all. The main thing is all has a pretty fast beat or is quite or has a kind of I don't know kind of rousing chorus, that kind of thing. That kind of gives you the extra bit of spark to keep the pace going.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's good. Are you doing any? you've got a target coming up. Have you got any runs that you're Long, runs that you're going to be aiming for?
Speaker 2:Well, the events I've got. I'm doing the Turk said 10 K in a couple of weeks. And then I've got the long. The longer term event is I'm doing the cabbage patch 10 miler in October. I try to do that most years that I can. And then I'm doing a read. I don't have you ever done any of the Richmond run fest runs? So they usually do 5 K, 10 K, half marathon and marathon in a weekend in September.
Speaker 1:Yeah, i remember is that the one that's starting Kingston?
Speaker 2:What is the longer runs, or maybe both. The longer runs go through Kingston, but the 10 K and, i think, the half marathon, both starting Q gardens, and so I've got doing the 10 K for that and I'm dithering whether to do the half marathon the next day, and so I don't know if I'll do both of those. But anyway, so the short answers I've got a handful of 10 K's and 10 miler coming up And I've probably try and put in a half marathon for the, maybe Novemberish, but that the maybe the one in Kingston, because I've done that a few times, because I did that I think a long time ago, i think, when Anna was in a push chair and it was the year of the foot and mouth.
Speaker 1:So we started off in Kingston but we couldn't. And we went down to to all Zisha but we couldn't go certain route because of the foot, mouth and whatever. So I don't remember. Wow.
Speaker 2:So I think we're sort of spoiled for nice runs in this area. Yeah, not nice ones in Kingston and Ditten and so on, not to mention all the all the big London ones. So I did the vitality half marathon a couple of years ago in London and really enjoyed that. That was a nice run.
Speaker 1:So do you go running when you're on holiday? I do.
Speaker 2:I do. I think it's a really nice place.
Speaker 1:Oh gosh, good question. I think you said you went running in the US, was I?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah. So I've run a fair bit in the US. I'm trying to think where I've run recently, on holidays I suppose around in Florida, which was, which was, which was really hot but but fun, really warm. Yeah, i usually, if I usually just do kind of a short run if I'm in like a city, if I can even just a couple of miles just to kind of get get my bearings around around.
Speaker 1:I mean, that's the thing now, is that you can? you can look online on Strava and you can see the local.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and just kind of. Just kind of get a quick flavor of a place, because I think the nice running is you can go, you can cover a fair bit of ground in a short, fairly short period of time.
Speaker 1:So that's what I usually do, so struggling to come up with some good examples, but that's always like that If you do run, kind of if you're going away, then it doesn't seem as hot because it's new, everything's quite new and which is quite nice Yeah, although it depends on you know where you are, if the kind of kind of work quite Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there is that, There is that Yeah.
Speaker 1:So is there anything else you'd like to cover, You'd like to tell us about Well?
Speaker 2:just that I think I mentioned to you that I recently read Richard Asquith's book called Race Against Time. You're right, and I loved that book and so that's really influence. I read that about when it came out about a few months ago I think it came out or maybe. Yeah, it's not that long because I read it, was reading some reviews about it.
Speaker 1:Is that about? because I just started listening to it and on your recommendation So it started off. Is about trail running, is that right?
Speaker 2:Well, he starts out with his own experience of trail running, but really it's about he's looking at runners who are mainly 70 plus between 1705, and just looking at really exploring masters running especially, and looking at firstly what's possible. So there are a lot of individual stories of these incredible runners I would say most of the people in his book are over 80 and what they're doing and how they're training and why they're doing it, but also just the amazing. But then that's kind of interspersed with some really interesting evidence for the impact of running on longevity and quality of life as people age. And it's so um compelling that you think Oh, my goodness, why would anybody stop running? You know, you just want to keep running because, because the benefits are enormous.
Speaker 1:The phone density, obviously the aerobic.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and and and and um, but equally the, the individual stories are so inspirational to, and and. You think, i think often you think, as I said, i think I said earlier that when I was, you know, starting out running, you'd go to runs and there'd be very few people over a certain age. It wasn't, and now things are really changing. But there's this idea that that if you're kind of in middle age, late middle age, there's still this whole opportunity, this whole opportunity to continue to run and pursue running and get incredible enjoyment and benefits open to you that maybe I don't know, 10 years ago I wouldn't have thought really possible. And so he.
Speaker 2:So he looks at all kinds of different countries and and and and um, kind of varieties of running, from, you know, 100 meters to ultramarathons, okay, and I think the lens he keeps coming to back to is the kind of masters running. So in the book, part of it's about his own story of being in his early sixties and feeling his running was just kind of no longer so much fun and he was getting injured and he wasn't as fast as he used to be, and it starts out kind of from he was in a fairly negative mindset And then, through this exploration, he he actually represents Great Britain in a master's 10,000 meters, so he talks about the 200 training for that.
Speaker 2:So that's the kind of one of the narrative threads through it. But in the meantime he really just comes to reinvigorate his own running And anyway, i found it a mix of really. I found it really quite inspirational but also quite motivational. And one of the one of the groups he talks with early on in the book are the up to generic and runners who meet, i think, annually at Bushy Park. So they've got it, they all get together And so he's he's interviewed that there's masses of park runners who are over 80 who meet on an annual basis. I mean they obviously run really regularly there. But and he talks to them and there's a chapter about it And it's just, it's just fascinating to read any any any one of them says it makes more sense to focus on what you can do rather than to kind of moan about what you no longer can, and I think that kind of just that kind of mind shift about running and about how. For me personally it's really been powerful And so it's maybe just because it's not like you've got.
Speaker 1:You know, there's a certain age where then suddenly, well, i should be doing this Yeah, yeah. Doing the gardening.
Speaker 2:Yeah, or just because my times are going to decline naturally it doesn't mean there's not still something I can really get from running, so, and also there's just the sense of camaraderie and it sounded I would really recommend it. I've really, really found it, and my father is still running. He's in his 80s now and he ran a 10k last weekend. So this is I'm sending him a copy of this saying look, you're, you're, you're in the young side of things And in terms of the subject of the book, so yeah.
Speaker 1:I know, and if something you just did touch on, upon, which I do see a lot beginning to see a lot more of nowadays, is ultra running, yeah, yeah, and you know, you know women and men sort of thing, and a lot more people are doing that now. Absolutely, sophie. So she's amazing, yeah, she is Yeah, so she does it. but it's not just you know, that's not just for the, the, the, the main yaks, but it's also. you do get that. you know people, who, who will do that and take that on So.
Speaker 2:And also it looks. I mean, i would love to do something like that actually, and I noticed that there are some try and remember the group who do it, that they set up runs around the country And I think they vary from in the same weekend. You could do between, i feel like it's 25K to 100K And they set it up, but they're they look, they look really interesting And they're all back in the lakes or down indoors at a wherever. And and the other. Because the podcast I really like is running commentary Rob Deering and Paul Tonkinson And, and I've been listening to that for a while. But they've quite got into ultra, some ultra running, and so they've had some really interesting podcasts where they, where they talk to you, they're talking about training for for some of these runs And then a couple. Then I don't know if you've listened to their podcast, but they record it while they run.
Speaker 2:So last summer they were doing run to the stones And that was an amazing set of podcasts that they did with where they're recording as they're running it And you kind of hearing about how, how challenging some of those And the other person I like on that is Vasas Alexander has written a couple of nice books about doing moving into ultra running. Oh, right, because I think he's on. He's also a radio broadcaster, i think in, yeah, yeah, virgin radio, i think. Oh, okay, yeah, so I've been, i've enjoyed that. So, yeah, if I, i would. That's that's kind of maybe, maybe a longish term goal I think I'd like to like to try. I love the idea of really running camp overnight and then you finish the next day Yeah.
Speaker 2:That would be. That would be really appealing to me.
Speaker 1:But yeah, yeah, depends of idea, But no, yes, it's like, because I mean, years ago it was, you know, it was, like you know, the marathon, like the 81, which was the marathon here, but now it's kind of moved into a different sphere It has. You know, so obviously with the park run And that kind of thing, but now you know if you, if you really want to take up running, then you know there are. Or well, if you want to really extend your ambitions in running, then you can do things like ultra Yeah.
Speaker 2:And again, i think, with some of those I know this one that starts really locally, feels like it starts in Richmond and goes to Brighton, i feel like it's in maybe even this time of year, in May, june. Anyway, some people walk the whole thing. That's the other thing. You see, you see the images of the start, the people who just Walk it fast, or some people who run all the all hundred K and you think, well, there's, there's something there. Then if you feel you're fit enough, you could at least have a go. But you could know you can also walk some of it and you wouldn't be on your own.
Speaker 1:So notice, you've got Garmin. Oh yeah, yeah, and it wouldn't be, you wouldn't, you wouldn't put it leave anywhere. but I mean, so You know, i know you listen to music, as you said, sort of thing, but is it's taken portent to you?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it is. I've got a friend who lives on my road who runs and he runs without anything like he doesn't.
Speaker 1:Yeah, where? what? anything?
Speaker 2:and I was thinking myself would I even do that and I think I would feel pretty. Yeah, I think I should do it, but I don't think I would do it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so, yeah, so I think the answer to your question is it is actually it's been well, not quite a crutch, but I like to know how far I've gone, i like to know how fast I'm going. Yeah, i like to be able to load my runs afterwards. And then I think, why? Why does it matter? So, so I think it is important, but I really admire my, my neighbor, who just goes out and just runs and I think actually that's, that's probably the spirit of running, really, yeah, but but so for me, i still use my. I still use my. Yeah, i always have my. I always have my garment on, okay, okay.
Speaker 2:Do you run? do you run with a what with your?
Speaker 1:yeah, well, i use the Apple watch because I'm a bit of a Mac nerd. So When they did The last update for the Apple watch last last year major update, they did put a lot of focus on on running right. So you know there was a lot more features for runners, that kind of thing. So they used to. Because I think the thing that I used to find very, a bit frustrating with the Apple watch is that you couldn't do, you couldn't set your intervals or do anything with that. Because I found For me And it's everyone's everyone's obviously different is that for me to work hard, i do, you know, doing interval running, sort of that kind, and then obviously there's you long ones and whatever, but I just found it.
Speaker 1:The only app that was doing it was Runkeeper That we do where you could set your own intervals and that's part of the program. And I know a lot of people you know kind of like I kind of got the feeling like serious runners had the garment and You know so, whereas having something like the Apple watch. But then when they came up with this update, it kind of meant there were two. They kind of shone a light on people who do regularly run.
Speaker 1:Yeah because I know they want. You know their focus is on health and fitness. So, no, i like that. And I also means I can just, you know, run with them or watch, put my headphones in and you know I can listen to music, podcasts, or even take a call or whatever.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, i don't have to carry the My phone with me, or like I think, yeah, i think that's quite amazing That tech has come all this way. I mean the days when I used to I mean, i don't know if you remember used to Take my walk, man.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, Well, I didn't even bother, I just had this really old Casio watch. Yeah that I think all it did was record when you started and when you stopped tell you what pace you were going or anything else, just, and then yeah, yeah, and they didn't upload it to anything.
Speaker 2:He just then went home and wrote down I did 36 minutes running today And and you knew you had to think, and I think that was a five minute or five minute mile route, so that must have been, you know. Then work out the pace, but yeah, that's all it did.
Speaker 1:I mean, i used to have an Adonis on a bike and I used to measure the distance, so I used to do that, yeah, and then I'd go for a run Days before GPS that's right, i know I know young listeners.
Speaker 1:But no, i mean idea. I mean, like you said, you know, the technology has come, leaks and abounds. I mean not just in terms of what we're wearing, but also that I mean the shoes as well and the Clothing that we're wearing. You know, so having you know Sweat disbursing clothes and that kind of thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely Yeah for me, actually seeing When, when I first switched to Garmin, whenever it was it was a while, i don't know a long time ago, but but just being able to see how fast you were going, what the pace was, that was amazing to me.
Speaker 1:I think they're very good at that. Yeah, in terms of helping me.
Speaker 2:I Understand. You know How fast I was going or wanted to go, or was it going too fast? Whatever that was, that was quite incredible, just having that.
Speaker 1:One last thing Do you do any kind of and something on really bad? Do you do any kind of like flexibility work?
Speaker 2:No, the funny thing is I do do that because that that is something that I yeah, i do a lot of stretching just normally, and that's because I guess because I learned to do that When I did gymnastics a long, long time ago, and I've always kind of stayed with me and that's always part of dance. Now, the funny thing is be interesting to know your thoughts of this is I've read more and more though that So and I absolutely know this. So if I so sometimes I do a dance class and then Pick up and just either run home or do a run from there, and I'm always running more slowly, and I'm sure what I've been reading more recently is, if you are, or your muscles are, really stretched, they're actually not as fast immediately.
Speaker 2:So that you so that you don't have quite the spring because your muscles are actually quite so. So that, while stretching is really good overall and in the long term, i Don't know ever stretch right before I really want to do a decent run Or or or really minimal stretch. I'm more I warm up like I walk and then gently run, but I don't do lots and lots of stretching anymore and I stretch when I finish a bit. But That's something I found quite interesting and I don't know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean my thoughts from sort of Personal trainers That you kind of want to be doing sort of dynamic exercises before you, before you run. Yeah and then maybe afterwards.
Speaker 2:Then you, do the stretching Yeah yeah, the stretching but I found about, like, if you've done a yoga class, something where you're really, really stretching out, that's when then, when you try and run, i feel, oh, i feel good, but you don't, i just can't get the pace, yeah, if you're quite slow, yeah. so you know, that's just a kind of do you do anything?
Speaker 1:something we have, we are about to cover on that or have covered on classes, sort of ply metrics, sort of explosive type stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah, i really enjoyed that um episode actually and it really made me think I don't do a lot of that and I probably should so.
Speaker 2:So, doing kind of like Squats and things like that I do but not they're like but but I haven't done the burpees or the like, the jump up to a box, that Kind of thing, yeah, for a long time really, and not definitely not as part of part of like a cross training or an or or A training to support running. And I made me think I really should do that, because I think That is somewhere. I, because one of the things I've noticed is that I think I've always done this a bit, but Probably more recent I don't really pick my feet up that high off the ground and, as a consequence, the injury I'm most likely to get these days is by tripping and falling. So I've got to so and I know I need to pick So so I think probably doing plyometrics and that sort of thing might just help me lift a little bit higher.
Speaker 1:I think the I think I think the main thing is is to do cross training like the strength work. There's flexibility, yeah, and then it will kind of Give you kind of become more balanced. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, well done. An hour, oh my gosh, that's amazing. Honestly, we could have talked for ages, but I just want to say a really, really big Thank you for coming along clean, so and Yeah well.
Speaker 2:thank you, it's been a pleasure, and thanks for the podcast. I've learned a lot through the series.
Speaker 1:Yeah, thanks very much.