Sports Will Save Us All: Sasha Graham's Insights

In this engaging episode of "Brian's Run Pod," host Brian Patterson sits down with Sasha Graham, the dynamic host of "Sports Will Save Us All." Together, they explore the complex journey of athletes transitioning from professional sports to new identities, discussing the emotional and psychological challenges they face. From the thrill of competition to the search for purpose beyond the field, Sasha shares insights from her conversations with athletes like David Bruton Jr. and others. Tune in for inspiring stories of resilience, the impact of social media on sports, and the evolving role of women in athletics. Whether you're a sports enthusiast or simply curious about the human side of sports, this episode offers a thoughtful look at the power of sport to shape lives.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

So you're thinking about running, but not sure how to take the first step. My name is Brian Patterson, and I'm here to help. Welcome to Brian's ROM pod. In part two of my discussion with Sasha Graham, the host of Sports Will Save Us All, we dive deeper into some of the guests she's had on the podcast. I started off by asking her about how professional athletes cope with retirement. If you haven't listened to part one, please do. So without further ado, let's get into our discussion. Did you I mean when talking to, because I understand that you do talk to quite a few with professional athletes, did you sort of approach, I mean you talked about someone who was playing for the Denver Broncos or any others, but were there any anxieties for them post-professionalism, you know, because obviously it's not like nine to five you either retire in your fifties or sixties or something, you know, in terms of sport, it's a very small window. Um although, you know, they could take, you know, they make a lot of money, but at the same time, they're not getting the thrill and the high from competing at a very high level. Um did you get that from them? Were they kind of worried that what's going to happen, you know, when I'm not in the field or or on the track?

SPEAKER_01 1:49

Yeah. This with this this question of sport and identity is one that, you know, I think that anybody, even if you just played sports in high school, right? That if that's your identity, if you see yourself as an athlete before anything else, that transition into another identity can be really rocky. And with professional athletes, it's, or even college athletes, I have talked to so many who have really suffered because not only is it their identity, but here at least, everything is taken care of for these women and men. So they have everything is scheduled down to the minute. They have their nutrition is taken care of, their their, you know, sport is taken care of, their training is taken care of, they're they're in college, their academics are taken care of, they have tutors, they have study halls, all of this stuff is all handled for them. And so when they come out then of that environment, it is brutal. So the ones who do the best, what that I have found, are ones who really take the time during the process. So either while they're in college or while they're playing professionally, to build an identity that is separate from that, right? So they they already know where they're going. And the professional leagues are getting better at this now because they have recognized that there's a problem. But even in the best case scenario, you know, I I also interviewed David Bruton Jr., who is now a doctor of physical therapy. He was on the Super Bowl winning team for the Denver Broncos. Yeah. And even he talked about it. You know, he went to physical therapy school after, you know, after playing for the in the Super Bowl. And, you know, even for him, this question of identity was a big one. So I think it's a great question. And I think that um everybody, and you don't have to be a professional athlete to go through it, you know, anybody who regularly runs and gets an injury understands that feeling very, very well.

SPEAKER_00 3:46

I mean, our sporting landscape over here in the UK is very different compared to the American system, because um, even at high school, televised football, uh, American football, basketball games, even maybe I don't know, baseball, but it is very much at a at a younger age that is kind of you are tracked through to a professional sport. Do you, in your opinion, do you think it's too young?

SPEAKER_01 4:16

Of course. Of course. Yes. Yeah. No, I am a huge advocate for going back to a recreational model.

SPEAKER_00 4:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:24

So we have here a recreational model and we have a club model. So the club model is where these private teams are formed and they tend to travel. Parents pay just thousands and thousands of dollars for their kids to be on these teams with the idea that it's going to pay off someday with a college scholarship or with a professional contract. And so what's happening? So the recreational teams are getting cannibalized for these club teams. So the rec teams tend to not be very good. And so the kids who can't afford to play on the club teams aren't getting the looks, aren't getting the tournaments, all those things. Not to mention, we are just eliminating all of these kids who might turn into incredible athletes but never get the chance. Yeah. So if you end up quitting a sport, you know, when you're 11, which 11, 12, 13 tends to be when people are quitting sports here because they are completely burned out because they've been playing baseball year-round since the time they were four years old, you know, it just breaks my heart a little bit. I want everybody to play every sport and find that joy and um find success in a way that is healthy and balanced and fun.

SPEAKER_00 5:33

Yeah. And let's not, I mean, let's not forget that you are still growing as a human being. And for you to get an injury, be it like a a knee injury or something like that, at 17, 18, 19, that must be tragic. And that must be, you know, we talked about mental health. I mean, imagine the the uh the disappointment. Um I remember watching a film, one of my favorite films, uh Saturday Night Lights. Um there's the guy Friday Night Light.

SPEAKER_01 6:04

Friday Night Lights, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:05

Friday Night Lights. The film version, yeah, about the American football and about the the high school. And you had one of the star players who had a knee injury and they just wouldn't they would only go to the doctor who tell them what they wanted to hear, sort of thing. And yeah, no, that was a that was uh it was an uh a a really good example of just how someone so young his career could be tragically uh shortened.

SPEAKER_01 6:30

Yeah, yeah. No, it's uh and that is a very, very common thing to have happen here. You know, and then imagine you're paying for college with that scholarship, you know. So then what happens? You know, they they don't need you if you can't play. So, you know, it's uh there's a there's a big ripple effect. And um again, you know, that resilience that you have to have built up at that point sometimes just isn't quite there.

SPEAKER_00 6:52

So Yeah. Yeah. Now we we did talk, uh we did say uh the the the dirty phrase earlier, social media. Do you think social media, in your opinion, I mean it has its pros and cons, you know, but do you think that has either helped or hindered people, um, be it recreation or even professional sports today?

SPEAKER_01 7:21

Yeah, that's a good question. There are two there's two ways of looking at this. One is that, you know, here we have NIL, so name image likeness. People are now getting paid in high school for playing their sport if they have a certain high profile on social media. So really young kids are really motivated to build a huge social media following. I don't think a huge social media following is good for anybody. I think that it is um it makes us vulnerable to strangers having parasocial relationships with us and thinking that they know us and that we owe something to them. I think it makes us vulnerable, you know, just from a confidence and a um, you know, again, mental health standpoint, that it's really hard when somebody is saying mean things about you because you've got a million followers and they think that you are impermeable. You know, you're a person and we see this happen all the time. The money that's involved, you know, that we've had a debate here for a long time whether college athletes should be paid as employees of the university. And that the sort of trade-off has always been that you get a free education, right? That if you get a full ride scholarship because you're playing football for a school, that's your payment. But you know, it it I it doesn't work out. Like it, it it's um, it's a false narrative, sort of to say that. So I think that college students who play a sport for their school that is bringing in money for their school should be compensated. I don't think that this current model is a great way to do it because it it asks so much more of these athletes, you know, that it is having a huge social media empire is a job in and of itself. And to ask these athletes to be a full-time student and then a full-time athlete and then a full-time social media marketer. I mean, that's it's just too much. And these are kids, you know, you know, having a 22-year-old, like they're they're still becoming and so and like you said, that that that tight rope of you're you're looking at the feedback.

SPEAKER_00 9:32

And if if it's not great, professional sports people, you know, they they can get really bad feedback and then it can affect really affect them. Um, but imagine the fact that that's happening to someone who is, you know, at high school or or even you know, early years at college.

SPEAKER_01 9:50

Well, and I think that on the professional level, the main advantage that professional athletes have when it comes to social media is that they may not be doing it themselves. So they may just be have insulation around themselves. Whereas a 16-year-old girl who has, you know, a promising volleyball career, who is building this social media following in order to get more name image-likeness money from these sponsors, you know, she doesn't have that insulation. You know, she's the one, you know, in her room at night who's creating these posts and things. So so, but that said, you know, I've curated my social media feeds very carefully to follow all of these super cool and inspiring and like just badass athletes and you know, people involved in the sports world. And it brings me so much joy. So I think that the flip side, you know, you've got the sort of dark side of social media, and you've got this flip side of so much joy and so much connection and so much positivity. But I think you have to be really deliberate about it. I think that you have to really take a hard look at yourself and your own reactions. You know, am I watching this because it's rage baiting and it feels kind of good to be, you know, be the person who knows that you're in the right? Like, why am I watching this? And and is it really good for me?

SPEAKER_00 11:09

So and you kind of have to stop to being that keyboard worry. I mean, there's things I watch on TV, and you know, like they might be, I don't know, a particular perfor perform or sports person you don't like and they haven't done, you know, sort of thing, and you and you you kind of you kind of feel, oh, you know, your hands twitching, you know, oh, get on the thing. Um, but you but I don't but you just let it have to let it pass. Of course.

SPEAKER_01 11:33

Of course. Because I mean, no good comes from that. I mean, literally. Like you just have to ask yourself, is this putting something good out into the world, or is this putting something bad out into the world? And you know, if it's if it's something bad, like just don't.

SPEAKER_00 11:44

Yeah. Switching tone a little bit is that I know when I I listened to one of your podcasts about a lady who was talking about the strong women and kind of the history of strong women, you know, it kind of started that started about circus, you know, a hundred years ago, and how is it Catherine Switzer? The the the girl, the lady who ran the Boston Marathon and um uh that kind of thing. So um has the profile of women in sports um in the last, I don't know, maybe 10, 15 years in Europe, has that really grown? I mean, we've talked about the the emergence of the the American, the foot football team, the the female football team, and that kind of thing. But do you think that's getting a lot stronger and they're getting the recognition they deserve?

SPEAKER_01 12:36

So the guest you're talking about, her name is Haley Shapley, and her book is called Strong Like Her, just to give her a little shout-out, because it's a dynamite book. And it it she teamed up with this photographer who took these beautiful photos of uh women athletes, and then she wrote these cool essays just about exactly what you're talking about, the history of women and sport and physicality. I mean, of course, like women now, it is a really, really um fun time in a lot of ways, I think, to be a woman in sport. Do we have a long way to go? Absolutely. Right. You know, that it's um so I think both of those things uh can be true. There are a lot of women who have been working for a really long time to get us to where we are finally starting to get. The risk, of course, is that when something swings this way, there's always a backlash. And so we're seeing that backlash now. And um one of the ways that we're seeing a backlash is this um, in my opinion, ridiculous argument that trans women are somehow damaging women's sports, right? That that is something that um that people, especially here, have picked up. And, you know, it is a non-issue, it is a non-problem. The vast majority of women who compete in sports say it is not a problem, stop it. Like trans women are women. So I think that we will see more and more of that because that is just, you know, the sort of the path of progress isn't linear. So interesting.

SPEAKER_00 14:08

But yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:09

To answer, you know, I mean, to go from I think Katherine Switzer ran the Boston Marathon in the you know mid-70s, you know, to go from there to where we are now and you know, is it's pretty remarkable when you look at it.

SPEAKER_00 14:23

Um because I know I think uh the 1964 Olympics, I think women could only complete that the highest distance, the longest distance they can compete in was the 800 meters.

SPEAKER_01 14:37

And to go from further than that. Yeah, nobody wants all those dead ladies' bodies all over the track.

SPEAKER_00 14:46

Yeah, exactly. It's a way it wasn't until the LA Olympics in 84 when you had the marathon, you know. I think um, and it was uh an American, was it Rosa? Can't remember, I can't remember the name.

SPEAKER_01 14:57

Uh well, and the irony, of course, is that now they're seeing that women might be stronger at these long endurance ratios. Women are beating men. And so, you know, it is one of the very few places in sport where women's um accomplishments and their times and all those things may soon outstrip men's, which is um which is also just fun to see, you know, that it's um if you have, you know, what is the the old saying about if you have a fish compete on a bicycle, they're gonna lose every time. But you know, if you put the fish in the water that they that they're gonna win. So, you know, it's it's finding, I may have just butchered that saying something like that. You get the idea.

SPEAKER_00 15:34

Yeah. We could put a the real quote in the show notes or something like that.

SPEAKER_01 15:40

Weird wisdom from Sasha.

SPEAKER_00 15:42

Yeah. Because I know um on the news yesterday they were announcing the there was uh one of the top female tennis players was gonna be playing uh the an Australian tennis player. He's a bit little mis misogynistic. I don't know whether that's a bit of PR spin sort of thing, and they were gonna play this game for, you know, because um but then that takes us back to uh Billie Jean King, who did the same thing in the 1970s. But uh I think when they asked Billie Jean King about it and said, well, she was doing it for very different reasons compared to uh this particular game, that's that's gonna happen.

SPEAKER_01 16:20

Yeah, and I mean I will say, you know, with the misogyny, I you don't have to look very far to find it.

SPEAKER_00 16:27

Right. Right.

SPEAKER_01 16:28

So whether it's being played up for the publicity, like even if it is, like it's just um there's a lot of that still. And I tend to run in a circle that um there just isn't a lot, you know. And so it's always a little shocking for me when I get out there and I'm like, oh no, that people really think this, you know, with our weak little arms and our tiny little brains.

SPEAKER_00 16:48

So we haven't, I mean, we've talked about a lot of sports and about other sports and your podcasts or whatever, but we haven't talked about Sasha's sports. So what I I understand you you go to the gym because apparently you got you got shoulder boulders or something like that. Because I got oh oh I got bolder shoulders. Boulder shoulders, bolder shoulders, yeah. That's it. Yeah. So I was listening to that story. This I was I was listening to that story that someone saw you putting away the weights and they they saw your shoulder from behind. So but um um, but um, so are you do you do you run or are you just in the gym or do you do any other sports?

SPEAKER_01 17:35

Yeah, so my favorite sport to play now is sand volleyball. So my husband and I have been playing sand, we've been playing sand volleyball for years. And um so we have a team that's called the Marmots, and we play every week. And the funny thing, actually, the connection to Sports Will Save Us All on my podcast is that I have been recruiting people who I interview on the show to play on our team. So we now have somebody who played Major League Baseball for 17 years. We have someone who played juniors hockey in Canada and then played hockey for Iowa State. For a long time, we had a former professional softball player on our team.

SPEAKER_00 18:13

Oh, right. So you get some ringers in.

SPEAKER_01 18:15

We we do, we do. You know, it's uh it's all about who you surround yourself with. So volleyball is my thing. I love uh I love playing volleyball. I also um, and you know, as we get older, volleyball is one of those things that is um really active, but is also um pretty easy. Sand volleyball is pretty easy on your joints. So it's a good one to play. Um I and then like you said, I go to the gym, I lift weights, which there's more and more evidence, particularly as women, that if we continue um lifting weights as we get older, the benefits just are extraordinary.

SPEAKER_00 18:51

Like not just physical, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:54

Physical benefits for sure, but also cognitive benefits that there's there's something about that our bodies really like to have that resistance training. So um, you know, for any of your listeners who are women, um, weight train, you know, even just once a week, like if you can get in there and just push some weight around. So um I like those things. I have run, I've run a couple half marathons in my life.

SPEAKER_00 19:16

Good.

SPEAKER_01 19:16

Um, and uh I vowed to never run one again. And then I interviewed Jeffrey Weiss and suddenly and read his book, and suddenly running sounded good to me again. So we'll see. I might, but I I also I have run um really a lot of 5Ks. Yeah. So that's that distance is uh um that's that's like me.

SPEAKER_00 19:37

I'll get rid of a 5K junkie.

SPEAKER_01 19:40

Yeah, yeah. Because they're fun and you know, it's um it's so much of running is the community, right? Like in those races, those 5Ks, like they always give like cool medals and fun trophies, and they always have you know good snacks.

SPEAKER_00 19:54

Yeah, we have a thing over here called Park Run. And I think it's worldwide now. It was started in a place called Bushy Park, which is not very far from here. But basically, uh it was started up by a guy who was uh from Zimbabwe and he started off because he got an injury, and then he just put some friends together and said, you know, we're gonna run a 5K and it's grown and grown and grown. You know, I know they they have park run in the States, Australia, um, all over the place. And it's like every Saturday, people will turn at the various whatever location near you, wherever it is, and people get together, you don't have to pay an entry fee. It is um it's a lot more organized now. You can you can wear a wristband and they can sort, you know, you can do your time. And you just turn up at nine o'clock and then that's it.

SPEAKER_01 20:46

So are they almost like training runs or are they raised?

SPEAKER_00 20:49

No, no, no, no. It's it's it's just all it is, it's a fun run. There may be one in your local area. I mean, I can always send you, give you a link. So you're gonna, yeah, it's just called it's called park run. I'll send you a link if you want. And then that's um and then you just turn up and then away away you go. And then what they do is they record your run and they they put a lead table as to where you were on that, and then they'll say, um, have you is this still best time for the year? Or you know, they do an age bracket thing, you know, for your age, you know, where did you worry, that kind of thing. But it's just great. It's just, you know, it's a really good community thing. You know, you tend to see the same people at the park run. Um, and or if not, you know, it's a good time to sort of like, you know, chat to pit to other people and to just sort of you know make friends and that kind of thing. So yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:38

It's interesting because, you know, you you're a little further along than I am as far as your kids getting older and things, but it's an interesting time of life, you know, when your kids who have always been sort of the center of your social life or have been for a long time, that then when they're getting older and getting out of the house and doing their own thing, that suddenly, you know, you're looking around going, okay. Hey, who am I now? And what do I do? You know, that and where where is my community? And I think that that is something like that, like a park run where you're seeing people probably from your neighborhood, you know, getting to know people in this way that is um it doesn't have to do with your kids, you know, it doesn't have to do with your work. Yeah. That it is uh that's a that's a really lovely thing. That's cool.

SPEAKER_00 22:23

I mean, it's like there's a guy who I know who's come with his kids and family, and they run together. I mean, you know, I've gone from seeing his his little his son who was eight, you know, nine years old, um doing it, and then over the years, um because he was like behind me and now he's like 10 minutes in front of me. So I'm feeling really old.

SPEAKER_01 22:49

You might be on opposite trajectories or something.

SPEAKER_00 22:52

Exactly, exactly, exactly, exactly. Right. Now, before we go, uh because I mean I could talk to you forever, but I mean it's and I've had such such fun, but I just wanted to do a quick fire round. So what was the first sport you ever loved?

SPEAKER_01 23:12

Um, I will go with swimming.

SPEAKER_00 23:17

Swimming. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 23:18

Yeah, yeah. I um I was on a swim team when I was a kid. I'm telling you, I've done everything. I was on a swim team when I was a kid and found early success with it. And I also just like um I'm I've always been a water bug. Like I love being in the water. That is really, really good to me. Um, so I think probably swimming.

SPEAKER_00 23:37

Swimming. So what stroke? What's what stroke?

SPEAKER_01 23:42

So I um when I competed, I can be competed in the IM. I mean in everything, but in the IM so the individual medley. Yeah. Yeah. So um uh back butter breastfree. And so, you know, did did all of them. Um but the one that I liked the most was breaststroke because I had the most opportunity to breathe.

SPEAKER_00 24:02

Oh right. Yes.

SPEAKER_01 24:04

Butterfly, I think, is just the devil in a swim stroke.

SPEAKER_00 24:08

Yeah, yeah. Very, very, yeah, you need uh good shoulders and and endurance for that.

SPEAKER_01 24:14

So and yeah, and and great like breath work, you know. I mean, your head is really underwater for a long time. Backstroke also was fun because you know you can kind of read the whole time. But I had I had one incident where I the flags, you know, they would put the flags over the pool so they can. Oh, yes, that's right.

SPEAKER_00 24:30

So you can know it's turn, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:32

And I that flags had come down, and so they had pulled the flags down, so there were no flags, and I was looking for the flags and they weren't there, and so I ran headlong literally into the side of the pool. And I mean, I wasn't very old, I wasn't going very fast. I don't think I was concussed or anything, but that's always stayed with me, right?

SPEAKER_00 24:49

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 24:50

Always know where the edge of the pool is. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:51

Yeah, yeah. Um, most inspiring athlete you've met.

SPEAKER_01 24:59

Oh, that is a that is a hard one because they've all been inspiring in so many different ways. But one of them who I um really came away super impressed and um very just I felt like my perspective had really changed was a little boy named Theo who came on the show. He was eight years old at the time.

SPEAKER_00 25:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:21

And he played baseball for a program called the Miracle League here in Arizona.

SPEAKER_00 25:25

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 25:26

And Theo has a condition called osteogenesis imperfecta. And he what it means is that he, by the time he was eight, he had broken over 200 bones. So his bones were really inclined to break. And this is a kiddo who, under normal circumstances, would never be able to play a sport, right? That it would be too dangerous and you know, he would he would be at too much risk. But because there's this baseball league here where I live in Arizona, where it's completely designed for people with disabilities, he was able to play baseball and listening to him talk about baseball and his roll-up song. You know, he uses a wheelchair, so instead of a walk-up song, he has a roll-up song. And talk about the the fun of of him playing baseball was such a great reminder to me that it isn't really about winning and losing. You know, we get we get pretty competitive, but it's about the joy of of competing in sport and taking place, taking part in sport. And that for me was really inspiring. I think about Theo a lot.

SPEAKER_00 26:30

Yeah. Do you have a favorite comeback story?

SPEAKER_01 26:33

Oh, a favorite comeback story. Um, you know, I can I use my own.

SPEAKER_00 26:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:41

Can I use my own comeback story?

SPEAKER_00 26:42

I mean, yeah, no, that is brilliant. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:46

So so this is uh um a very Saucha story, which is that I was working out with my trainer in the gym a couple of years ago. And I she I just switched to a new trainer because my trainer left after three years. But yeah, she was wonderful. Her name is Annie, and she was wonderful at helping me set goals. And so um one of the times that I went in, she said, you know, okay, what's what's your new goal gonna be? And I said, you know, in volleyball, I want to increase my quickness a little bit, you know, that I my endurance is pretty good and you know, my placement's pretty good, but I want to get quicker again. So she said, Oh, perfect. We'll do some quick feet exercises. So she laid out, you know, one of those ladders on the f on the floor.

SPEAKER_00 27:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 27:28

And I was doing quick feet through the ladder and then sprinting as I got out of the ladder. And so I I've always been fast, like I've always been a sprinter. And so that was something that I took pride in. And so she lays down this ladder and I quick feet through it and I go to take off. And the we were in the gym, and there was a little divot in the turf that my toe caught just at that first or second step of my sprint. And I felt myself going down, right? And I it's weird as an adult to feel yourself falling because I think you fall a lot as a little kid. You have the potential to fall as an older adult, a much older adult, you know. But but this this area where you and I are right now, we just don't fall very often. And so it everything slowed down. And I thought to myself, I am going to have the most vicious turf burns if I just slide out on my belly. So I thought, okay, I will tuck and roll, right? We it was during football season, you know, American football season. And I thought these guys roll all the time on the turf. So I thought, I'll just tuck and roll. But I was going so fast that I actually ended up doing a flip in the air and landing on my back.

SPEAKER_00 28:46

All right. Oh no.

SPEAKER_01 28:47

So I'm I land on my back and my trainer comes running over. And she's like, okay, don't move. Don't move. She was like, let's assess. She was like, what? And the wind was knocked out of me, and I was like, I think I'm okay. I think I'm okay. So I carefully stand up and we jog around the gym a little bit. And then I was like, you know, maybe, maybe the bike. So I get on the bike and I am riding on the bike, and finally I said, you know, I really think I just need to go home and take some Advil.

SPEAKER_00 29:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:13

So I'll spare you all the gory details, but eventually I discovered that I had um later that night after an x-ray that I had broken four ribs. Oh they were all, they were all minimally displaced. Oh no. And it was the hardest week of my life that you could ever imagine. It is um breaking ribs is no joke. Breaking four ribs is really no joke. And it wasn't until, you know, I just at the back healed.

SPEAKER_00 29:43

At the back. Oh, right. Okay. Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 29:46

And, you know, because they wrap all the way around the. So later I found out that anybody who breaks uh two or three ribs, they recommend actually admitting them to the hospital for pain control, but nobody told me this. And so I was just at home, like trying to like muddle through, you know, asking my husband and kids to, you know, bring me things. But incredibly, and this is why it's a comeback story, is that these freaking ribs healed so fast and so beautifully. I think I was playing volleyball again within four or five weeks.

SPEAKER_00 30:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 30:23

And to go from feeling absolutely devastated and like I would never move my body again to feeling like I could go out on the volleyball court and it wasn't perfect, but you know, and do it gave me so much appreciation for my own body and what I was capable of and our ability to heal that it um it was very, very, very heartening and inspiring for me because I think as we get older, we spend a lot of time thinking about what our bodies can't do. And this example of, you know, being really injured and then getting better was um it was definitely felt like a comeback story for me.

SPEAKER_00 31:04

Yeah. And I mean, I think it's that's kind of a good way to finish the this part of the podcast, which is, I think it's kind of testament to you that exercise has been part of your life for quite a long time. And obviously you've kept going to the gym, and I think that helps, you know, you kept the strength training, you're very active, that kind of thing. So, in terms of when you do get a break like that, which maybe some people who don't who aren't such regimented about their uh exercise, the healing process would take them a bit longer. Um, whereas yourself obviously means that because you your body was was strong, then it means that you were able to heal a lot a lot better.

SPEAKER_01 31:52

I will say, uh, you know, my trainer at the time would always say that age is just a magnifier. So if you have two 20-year-olds and one is one is really active and one isn't, that you know, their fitness level is, you know, about you know, it's not quite as far apart. But if you have a 60-year-old and one of them is really active and one of them isn't, yeah, their fitness level and their ability to to do things in life is vastly different and they look and they, you know, physically look vastly different. You know, your your 60-year-old who doesn't do any exercise versus your 60-year-old who does like they look like they're, you know, 20 or 25 years apart in age, right?

SPEAKER_00 32:27

Yeah. Right. I think we, if you can stick around when we say goodbye uh for a little bit. And then um, but what I would say is where can we find you and sort of your Instagram over to you?

SPEAKER_01 32:41

Absolutely. And I, you know, we are always welcoming new people to what we call our sports fam. We would love to have you and your listeners. The podcast itself, again, is called Sports Will Save Us All. It's available on all of the major platforms. So Apple and Spotify and all of those good places. The and everything else is under that same name. So our website is sportswilsaveusall.com. We've got some fun stuff on there. Our Instagram is at sports will save us all. So jump in there, see what we're up to. It's uh, you know, we we uh publish a lot of clips on there and different things of interviews. So even if you never listen to the show, you can glean some knowledge from the people who we have on the show and their clips on there.

SPEAKER_00 33:22

Yeah. I mean, um uh I I just want to say, I know this is a little bit different to our regular guests, but I've thoroughly enjoyed today. And I hope our audience will uh, because you are you're so energetic and have some have given given us so many uh good stories. But I just want to say thank you very much for agreeing to come on. Um, because I know it's a busy time of year, Christmas and all that.

SPEAKER_01 33:46

Christmas is coming. I know, I know, yes, I know.

SPEAKER_00 33:50

Um it's a nightmare. What's the weather? What's the weather like over there?

SPEAKER_01 33:55

It is busy. You know, this time of year in Arizona is just our high season. It is absolutely beautiful here right now. Okay. So everybody is outside, everybody is having a ball. So um, you know, during the summer, not so much, but right now, December, January, February, it is pristinely beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 34:12

Yeah, well, over here it's pretty mild. It's kind of, I know you don't work, I think you work in Fahrenheit, but it's centigrade, so it's about 14 centigrade over here. So it's pretty mild. So but um okay, I just wanted to say goodbye from Sasha. Thank you very much for coming on and goodbye from me, Brian. Um, I hope you enjoyed the podcast. And um, don't forget to listen to all of our other um podcasts as well. So thank you very much. Bye bye.