Kelly Hale Part 2 : The Surprising Connection Between Gut Health and Your Running Performance

Discover the surprising link between gut health, nervous system regulation, and optimal performance, whether you’re an athlete or a health seeker. In this eye-opening episode, Kelly Hale reveals how your body’s plumbing and nervous system control more than just digestion; they influence your energy, injury recovery, and mental clarity. If you’re frustrated with repeated injuries, fatigue, or stubborn digestive issues, this episode could transform your health and athletic performance.

Kelly shares the groundbreaking concept of early reflexes and nervous system patterns that sabotage your progress. Learn how gentle organ releases, brain-body exercises, and simple daily routines like PACE can reset your energy, reduce injury recurrence, and boost your running mojo. Discover specific, actionable techniques that take only a few minutes but deliver profound results—no equipment needed. Whether you’re striving for longevity in your runs, overcoming nagging injuries, or simply want to understand your body’s signals better, Kelly’s insights will revolutionise your approach.

Explore the vital role of trauma release, the importance of real-time body awareness, and why over-reliance on data might be distracting you from your own sensations. From addressing anticipatory anxiety to optimising spinal reflexes, this episode offers a fresh perspective on holistic health that integrates mind, body, and nervous system. Perfect for runners, coaches, health enthusiasts, or anyone eager to upgrade their inner systems and enjoy more pain-free, energised days.

Kelly Hale is a holistic health practitioner specialising in nervous system regulation, visceral organ work, and injury prevention. With her decades of experience in manual therapy and performance coaching, she’s dedicated to helping people reclaim their resilience and vitality through simple, effective tools.

If you’re ready to simplify your health routine and experience effortless movement and energy, this episode is for you. Unlock the secrets your body is trying to tell you—and transform how you run, recover, and live.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

So you're thinking about running, but not sure how to take the first step? My name is Brian Patterson, and I'm here to help. Welcome to Brian's RomPod. And it's me, your host, Brian Patterson, on some hints and tips about running. In this eye-opening conversation, you learn why focusing solely on nutrition is missing a huge piece of the puzzle. Kelly Hale, a specialist in nervous system recognition and visceral organ work, shares some simple yet powerful techniques like brain-body warm-up exercises and the PACE method that can reset your energy and banish persistent digestive issues. From a surprising role of early reflexes and injury prevention to playful insights about poop whisperers, in this second episode of my chat with Kaylee, it's packed with concrete tools to optimize your health effortlessly. Before we get into a chat, I just want to warn you that we did occasionally have a bad line. However, in the main, um, Kaylee gave us some pearls of whiz pearls of wisdom in this subject area. So without further ado, let's get into the chat. So when you talk about gut health, you're not talking about nutrition, are you?

SPEAKER_01 1:36

That's a great question. Yeah. Well, sometimes I'll dip into that, but very often I refer out to other professionals for the nutritional side. Really, what I'm talking about is the structure, the plumbing. Are you, yes, you want to nourish properly. And I have some training in something called bodyology, which is all about the gut flora. So we'll talk about it a little bit, nutrition from that standpoint. But then I'm also saying you can put all the most pristine food and supplements in your body, but if you're not absorbing it, if your organs aren't working with you, if your vagus nerve is irritated and that's affecting your digestion, kind of tasting all that that you're putting in there. And also, another part of that is elimination. If you're not regular, if things aren't happening with ease, all those toxins just continue circulating around in your pelvic goal. I I have worked with a fair bit of runners that have challenges with that. You know, it's sometimes the running can change the way their policy floor works and the way their control of bowel and bladder happens. So there's definitely so much more than nutrition to talk about when it comes to digestion, assimilation, and elimination.

SPEAKER_00 2:50

I I don't know if you'll be interested in this. I remember there was a my wife and I used to watch this program about this lady who was very much into gut health. And it was a program on the television. So she was quite famous for getting people to poo in a plastic bag, and she would look and analyse their poo, and she could tell whether, you know, about the nutrition, and she could give sort of like a complete detailed diagnosis on their poo sort of thing. And she was this old little Scottish woman, about sort of four foot tall sort of thing, and she, you know, you it was it was either my road or the high road, you know, sort of thing. And um it was quite fun. It's hilarious, sort of thing.

SPEAKER_01 3:42

And I love that. That's right. Yeah, I love that song since since we're going there. Yeah, one of my nicknames is the poop whisperer.

SPEAKER_00 3:54

Because I did see that. Yeah, I did see that, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:56

Yeah, a lot of people struggle with constipation um or the other end of the spectrum. And part of my training as a manual therapist is visceral organ work. What that means, it's very gentle, hands-on, outside of body, helping to get things moving. And it's honestly one of my favorite techniques that I use because the results can be so profound. I'll get tons of text from people with little pool emojis because they finally had some ease.

SPEAKER_00 4:24

Oh, right. Okay. So that so there is sort of some science behind it, obviously.

SPEAKER_01 4:30

Oh, absolutely. And then again, I can't get everyone on my table. So I teach the organ release exercises in my virtual community. But I love what that woman was doing because it was probably about 25 years ago the first time I had a stool analysis. And I encourage people to get that because there's so much information, right? Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:49

And I agree with it.

SPEAKER_01 4:52

Yeah. And there's so, I mean, funny story, remember the first time I had it tested about 25 years ago, and I had to like take the sample and then you have to package it off, and the delivery people pick it up. And my husband on lunch, and he it doesn't say what it is, it says biohazard, right? But it doesn't say what it is. And my husband saw that the UPS guy picking it up was the same one that came to his office. So he like didn't want him to see him. He sort of had a freak out, and I'm like, it's no big deal. He doesn't know what it is. And yeah, so again, that was 20 years ago, and more and more people willing to talk about it. And that's actually one of my passions talking about that because yeah, starting in multiple at a young age, I had major digestive issues and I lived in shame. And I don't want any feel that I want people to feel they have a safe space. Like I have the stuffed and like a stuffed animal, but it's a stuffed colon that we named Colette. I have little crochet coup of these, all that stuff, because people that feel comfortable talking about it, they can feel supported around it.

SPEAKER_00 5:55

Brilliant. Yeah, that's that's good. Well, I well, it's good we we brought it up. And I think especially nowadays where in terms of bowel cancer, and you know, it's it's important that we, you know, people are made aware of it. So I know um it's I you know, I think we've had I've had you know been various personalities over here who may have been diagnosed with bowel cancer and and they have tried to encourage people to to look at their own poo, sort of thing. Because you know, it you never know, it could be, it could save your life.

SPEAKER_01 6:29

Absolutely. I really appreciate when people that have a large platform will come forth with that. And it's so important because younger and younger people are developing different types of digestive cancers. And you know, early detection, it's key. So having, I know a lot of people don't want to have their colonoscopies here. And I'm always telling them look, it's something that informs you and can save your life. So it's definitely important when we have people that spread that message and they have a lot of reach. So I love that. And well, I also think in addition to screening to make sure there's nothing scary, we also need to teach. Like I wish young people would learn about bowel health in their early developmental years so they could be empowered and not feel like they have to hide about it. That let's bring this as a normal conversation. And to all of my clients about it. But I read, I read, you know, it may take a while and I might bring it up in a certain way versus someone who I can tell is ready to talk about it. So you just kind of have to meet them where they're at and when they're comfortable, bring in the dialogue and then help them feel safe discussing it.

SPEAKER_00 7:44

Yeah. Now, if um just moving on, and if I'm a runner, I've sort of I'm not feeling sort of I've got the running, feeling a bit lethargic, I'm not into the training, and I'm not talking about someone who's serious about running, but someone who may go, let's say, two or three times a week, sort of thing. Is there anything that you kind of you can do in your tool bag which can sort of get your running mojo back? Is it something that you know, some of the techniques you've talked about that can help us reset ourselves?

SPEAKER_01 8:22

Oh, that's that's a great one. And that is very common. I think a lot of people run into that at different times in their life, whether it's running or other activities or sports. Yes, I think doing, and I like to make things five to 10 minutes and boosting energy through those crossbody movements. There's actually a civil technique called pace. It's P-A-C-E. It stands for positive, active, clear, and energized. And this is from the brain gym body of work. And it's a preparatory exercise. And we use it to prime people's brain and body for learning, but we also use it to boost energy. And so it's very simple. I can describe it here and y'all have the deal, but people would take us to the water, always starting with a water, yeah, and then one hand on their belly bone, and the other hand makes a C. This is the second part of the four steps. And I'm first finger come to where the breastbone and collarbone intersect. And they just gently rub that while the other hand is on their belly button. I'd like to point out that we're right there in the midline. This is for focus and concentration, and it helps with energy.

SPEAKER_02 9:36

Right.

SPEAKER_01 9:36

And as people do it more regularly, we add in eye exercises, but I usually don't invite people to do that at the start.

SPEAKER_02 9:43

Right.

SPEAKER_01 9:44

Then the third step of this four-step process is that crossbody or cross-crawl movement, the one where you're marching and then you reach the opposite arm to the opposite leg.

SPEAKER_02 9:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:56

And we have lots of fun variations. We do back body variations, we do turning, we do all sorts of combos of those. And then the fourth step is called a hookup. And what we do is we cross one ankle over the other. This could be done seated as we are now or standing. And then you bring your arms in front like you're gonna clap, but miss, yeah, and then threw your hooks together, interlace, bring them to rest on the body.

SPEAKER_00 10:24

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:24

Yes. Yeah. And then that's uncomfortable for someone's wrist or shoulder. They could make an X across their chest and keeping the tongue on the roof of the mouth, breathe there for a few moments, yeah, and then yes. And then the second part B of this fourth step, this part, the hookup, is uncross the libs and bring the hands to the midline, here or here. So like in a preposition or here. It doesn't matter which one. And so this four-step sequence is a brain and body warm-up. I have everyone do this before they do Pilates. I'm still doing tap dancing for joy in my life. And I will do this before I walk into a class to help myself pick up the choreography more easily. And certainly this is one step that they could build on, but then I would also encourage that person that's feeling challenged with energy and motivation is maybe to start with a five-minute walk.

SPEAKER_02 11:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:23

And walking helps to stimulate that gait reflex. Yeah, that's true and is easily. But then I would add a visual exercise to walking. And so as they're walking, I would look as far away at the furthest tree as possible and then bring their vision to something closer, like a beautiful flower or something, and continue as they walk, far my close. So we get the convergence divergence. Because when we're under stress and a real energy depletion is an eye lock, and the screens that we're all on today will cause us to go into an eye lock. And so by getting the eyes moving and the body moving in that automatic way with walking, as they do that for five minutes, maybe 10 minutes, then they might feel energized. And let's say they started with that pace sequence, that four-step sequence, and then they start walking and then they start running because they might need a little extra warm-up, not just for their musculoskeletal system, their myofascial system, but also for their brain connecting to their body.

SPEAKER_00 12:24

Right.

SPEAKER_01 12:25

That would be simple without having to show a ton of movement.

SPEAKER_00 12:30

Yeah. But also that, you know, let's say if someone's getting over injury or is going through uh injury, you know, process in a process. So there may be some exercises they could do without it being overstimulating for their own body sort of I I I know some people will go to a physio and maybe having to do strength exercises, but but even just doing those, going through those different exercises that you've just talked about, maybe something that one could do to help sort of center yourself and reset yourself.

SPEAKER_01 13:06

Absolutely. And you know, on the topic of injury, the nervous system is really important, those early developmental movements, because you know, I work with a lot of athletes and performers, in addition to people who are, you know, training for the sport of life, as I like to call it, because life can be an but what I find, I get a lot of people that say, you know, I feel like I'm strong, I feel like I'm flexible, I'm training well, I've got a well-rounded training program, but I keep running into this reoccurring injury.

SPEAKER_02 13:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:36

And very often, an early developmental movement is behind that, one of those early reflexes. For example, with runners, I'll see a lot the foot tendon guard reflex gets tripped up.

SPEAKER_02 13:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:49

And they don't go back and nourish it. And again, maybe it had done its work and gone into the background as were designed, but then they ran so much they had some micro injury that built up to a greater injury or they had a fall. And so by going back through and finding out which of those, these are this is the tricky stuff. This is when I put my detective hat on and go, there's something else going on here. And that's why a lot of people end up to see me or sent to me because their doctors are like, I don't know, she always can figure out the missing piece of the nervous. And so when we go back through, and in that example, we re-educate, we re-nourish that foot tendon reflex, then that person can return to running without constantly going back into that pattern that caused them to get injured.

SPEAKER_00 14:39

Yeah. Um I'm I'm at that place. I I last year I had a a hip, which was diagnosed as a glutus medius sort of problem. I did the went through some strikes worth, got stronger, did running, whatever, and now it's come back again. And it's a bit it was really quite frustrating because now I'm getting I'm feeling the same soreness within that area within within my within my hip, and I was like, oh no, sort of thing. So whether, you know, there is a uh like some kind of nervous tension there, or there may be something that that maybe something else that I need to sort of address, or it's kind of a very weak, weak side of my my body.

SPEAKER_01 15:24

So absolutely. And I think what you're really speaking to there is anticipatory anxiety. You know, for sure. I think your your audience will benefit from knowing that you're an attorney there. And it's good to see that other people that we admire and look up to, look at as experts, have their own struggles behind the scenes. But a lot of times what I find is that people will get into that anticipatory anxiety, and we can do a very simple hands-on nervous system tool to dial down the anxiety and the fear, the fear that that injury is going to be provoked on this run or this training session, right? So that's where I would really empower someone to work with the fear of paralysis reflex.

SPEAKER_02 16:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:08

And I, you know, that that's a big name, but I just tell people we're gonna do the one that helps us move away from anxiety, yeah. Even anticipatory anxiety, and back to a place of feeling calm and secure so that you can enjoy your run, right? You run for joy as well as the benefits of fitness, I imagine.

SPEAKER_00 16:27

Yeah, yeah. We're coming near to the end of our podcast, and I feel that I could talk to you about this fascinating subject for for hours. But before we go, and I hope you just like stick around after we've finished recording. But one what would be one thing that runners or I'll ask you a few questions, but one thing that runners kind of over overcomplicate the most in terms of your experience, you know, especially from you know your subject area.

SPEAKER_01 17:01

Sure. I mean, I think every runner is so unique, but I think a lot of them overcomplicate somewhat of the the whole, it depends on if you're talking an endurance runner or more of your everyday runner.

SPEAKER_00 17:15

Everyday runner, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:18

Seven-day runner for fitness, but not necessarily an athlete who's competing in running, right? I think what they will complicate is the idea that you know they have to train in just a physical structure way.

SPEAKER_02 17:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:35

And they're missing the piece of the brain connection. And that everything they do, not only when they're training or doing a run, let's say they run three or four times a week, but there are things they can do on their off days that's not running.

SPEAKER_00 17:49

I agree.

SPEAKER_01 17:50

That will enhance. And it can be as simple as that four-step sequence of pace. It can be as simple as moving through movements that support the lower body, but from a nervous system standpoint. And those things take three minutes. So I think I don't know if it's overcomplicating as much as it is missing a piece of the puzzle, which is that brain and nervous system connection. Because if people want longevity with running, they have to bring the brain body piece into it. They have to be able to, you know, and it could be as simple as an exercise on all fours, like the bird dog, if you can imagine that opposite arm and like bird dog. A lot of runners will go for the spinal stability. And I agree, it's a great spinal stabilizing exercise, but it's also a grain exercise. That opposite arm on all fours, and then come underneath your body and touch your opposite hand to your knee and then go back out. Yeah. And you're gonna go a little deeper into that. So I like to see runners do more of those kinds of off-day trainings that build stability of the spine and the structure, but also nourish the nervous. Do things for spinal reflexes. The morrow is actually a spinal reflex. This one, it's upper spine, but it's also breath and anxiety and fight, flight, freeze. And then, you know, do things for spinal reflexes that are simple moves on the floor or standing that allow their structure to support them when they're running all those miles, even if it's a few miles a day, but adding up over time.

SPEAKER_00 19:25

I think the other thing is that we are a generation or maybe a few generations where we're we're ruled by data. And we are whether you're recording it on your watch or your phone or what and that in some ways tends to sort of overcomplicate you and sort of restrict you. So and even just trying maybe these different exercises will help free you to enjoy the run or or all the exercise that you want to do.

SPEAKER_01 19:56

Oh, yeah, that's such a great insight. I I love the idea of biohacking and collecting data, but I've also seen people get into a spiral of anxiety with it, and then they're not in the present moment. And you're absolutely right. Doing nervous system exercises, keep them present and allow that data to be collected in the background and use it as just one piece of information. I'd like people to be more in tune with their own sensations and their own noticing instead of relying just on the data from all the devices that are out there now.

SPEAKER_00 20:29

So is there is there a particular, how can we sort of is there a sign where your nervous system needs attention? Is there anything that we can sort of pick up? Maybe any anxiety, or maybe we can, you know, again, maybe I think maybe it's something we've we've covered throughout. But is is there anything, any early warning signs that maybe we need to restock and reset?

SPEAKER_01 20:55

Yeah, sure. So anxiety is definitely a piece, but a lot of people don't even understand anxiety. I mean, children today, there's so much more talk about mental health, at least here in the States, and I appreciate that. So they're talking about anxiety, but we've got a lot of, you know, 40 and up people who didn't grow up where mental health was discussed. And so they just feel like they worry or they're stressed out. But there can be anxiety underneath, and it can be a challenge with focusing, it can be a challenge with sleeping, it's the challenge maybe staying in the present moment, it's the challenge stepping, you know, the person that can't step away from activity and be in a true restful place. So they might feel challenges connecting interpersonally. There's so many different ways. They might feel like their eyes either lock or their eyes go a lot. They might feel muscle tension, they could have changes in digestion and elimination. And so all of these different facets could point to nervous. Service system dysregulation. And honestly, everyone is going to experience it at some point in their life. The key is to help ourselves not to live there on the regular.

SPEAKER_00 22:10

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Good. All right. Well, as I said, we could I think I've really enjoyed this chat. I I hope you have Kelly as well. Likewise. Is there any so where would our list listeners point to? I know you said you were having your website re you know, upgraded, although I have looked at your website and it looks brilliant. So so I just wanted to know as to where we can get hold of you, see you. Do you have a I think you have Facebook? Is that a Facebook site?

SPEAKER_01 22:42

Yes, thank you, Brian. I I'm on Instagram under Inspire, the number two wellness. Great. Um, so I'm there on Instagram and pretty active. But where I'm most active and what I love because it's very engaging is my Facebook group, Nervous System Regulation with Kelly Hale.

SPEAKER_02 23:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:00

And that's where I show up every week live and teach an exercise for the brain, the body, or the gut, or how they're all connected.

SPEAKER_02 23:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:08

And then that's people ask questions. It's a lovely group. It's a private group, and people get to ask questions or share their triumphs and their challenges. And so in that space with like-minded and like-hearted people, it feels very interactive. So I really love that. And we welcome people to join us over there and bring their questions. And their questions very often turn into the next live topic, for example.

SPEAKER_00 23:33

Great. Great. Okay. I'd like to say goodbye from Kelly. As I said, if you just stick around for a little bit afterwards, I'd like to say goodbye from me, Brian. And I hope all our listeners have enjoyed this conversation. And don't forget to listen to me next week. Cheers. Bye bye.