76 - Reeva Steenkamp & Oscar Pistorius

In the early hours of the 14th February 2013, world record holding athlete Oscar Pistorius phoned emergency services to report that he had fatally shot his girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp. Steenkamp, a 29 year old paralegal, model and TV presenter had allegedly been mistaken for an intruder within the bathroom of Oscar's own home. 

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Transcript

Clare 0:00

This podcast covers a variety of true crime, mystery, and unexpected stories. A warning that episodes will contain graphic details and may not be suitable for everyone. Welcome back to Death and Taxes, a True Crime Podcast. I'm Claire.

Benny 0:25

I'm Benny.

Clare 0:26

And I'm Carrie. Welcome back, Carrie. Lovely to have you here with us today, this evening, for our case. It's great to be back. I've missed you guys. We've missed you. Okay. The year is 2012. The Olympic Games held in London were a buzz. Hundreds of athletes who had spent years pouring their talent and determination were finally taking the world stage. This Olympics also had something extra special that had most of the world tuning into the athletics program. Because for the first time in history, a double-leg amputee sprinter from South Africa was taking on the Olympics in the 200 and 400 meter events. Oscar Pastorius, known around the world as the Blade Runner, was a world champion, gold medal-winning Paralympic sprinter whose speed had shocked the athletics community. Many tuned into this monumentous history in the making moment. When the starting gun went off, Oscar showed the world something that he'd been saying for years. I'm not a Paralympian or an Olympian. I am simply an athlete. While Oscar didn't make the finals, his impact on global sports could not be matched. He was a household name, an ambassador for many brands, a motivational speaker, and a hero in his home country of South Africa. The public simply couldn't take their eyes off him. But just a few months later, on the 14th of February 2013, Oscar's name was about to become a household name for a completely different reason. The shooting death of his girlfriend, Reaver Steen Camp. Today we are going to examine the case, the media that followed, and explore did Oscar deliberately kill Reaver, or was it as he claimed a mistaken identity for a burglar? A burglar? A burglar. Terrible start. 2012, the height of the Olympics. Both of you obviously remember who Oscar Pastorius was.

Carrie 2:29

I absolutely do, and it goes to show you his, I guess, range of touching the community because as most of the pod fans will know, I'm not a sporto. I'm not into the Olympics. Apologies, athletes out there. I know you're incredible. But I did know this guy's name. That's that's the kind of reach this story had. What about you, Ben?

Benny 2:54

Yeah, I watch the gymnastics, I watch like the floor routines, the diving, I like those sorts of things. I'm not sort of into watching sprinting myself. I don't think I knew him from the Olympics, no, I don't I don't think I caught on, but obviously afterwards, yes.

Clare 3:06

It's funny because I I my family's are quite a sporty family, and so we were very into the Olympics, but I didn't really know him as famously as I did in the lead up to the 2012 Olympic Games, and I do remember watching him run um during those Olympics. So it's interesting, like you said, Carrie, the reach that he had. Uh even in 2012, like that's still he was everywhere in every magazine, he was all over the place. But obviously, as I said, only a sh a few short months later he would be in the headlines for a very different reason. So I might even ask up front. You obviously both remember when this story broke.

Benny 3:46

Yeah, yeah.

Clare 3:48

Very much so, yeah.

Benny 3:49

I was surprised by how much I didn't know about the case or how much I'd forgotten, I guess, in kind of brushing up before this before this episode. Um I think that I'd say you'll probably have a lot that I didn't that I haven't heard or that I had completely forgotten. Because it was everywhere, it really kind of oversaturated the media for such a long time, and it was kind of exhausting at the you know, back in the time, and maybe I didn't have the true crime enthusiasm that I do now. So I I don't remember absorbing as much details as I probably thought I did.

Clare 4:14

It's um it's interesting. I agree with you, Ben. As I was um doing some research for this case, I had forgot, oh, there was parts of it that I just didn't remember, but I did remember that it was a big headline case. It was everywhere that was on every magazine, and I actually went back and found some of the headlines from the time to just kind of like brush up, I guess, on the way that people were speaking about it. This is like as it happened. So the Daily Mirror had headlines, things like Blade Gunner, and we had the Blade Runner charged with murder, Oscar arrested, girlfriend killed, Blade Runner may have flipped out on steroids. Gronk Oscar kills girlfriend. I didn't even know that Gronk was beyond an Australian term, but there you go. Um, so there are many reports, many articles, documentaries, podcasts about this case, and many really spend time starting with the rise and the fall of a national hero and the man at the center of the crime. But I'm gonna start today by talking about Reva Steencamp. So Reva Rebecca Steenkamp was born in Cape Town, South Africa on the 19th of August, 1983. She had two half siblings from her parents' previous marriage and grew up in a safe and happy home. Reva was incredibly bright and athletic. She excelled all the way through school and graduated with a Bachelor of Law degree from Nelson Mandela Metropolitan University.

Benny 5:46

And she did quite well from what I re from what I heard, she graduated in like the top ten in the class or the year or something. Like she yeah, she bright through.

Clare 5:54

Absolutely. Yeah, super bright. So she so she obviously wanted to pursue a career in law and really wanted to focus on supporting domestic violence survivors and wanted to be an advocate for women across South Africa. That was kind of really the realm that she kind of um latched onto. Um, she was also an accomplished horse rider, so she'd been riding most of her life. Her dad was a horse trainer, from what I read. But in her early 20s, Reva had a terrible fall off a horse and she broke her back. Um, she spent months in hospital and basically had to relearn how to walk. So she kind of had to put her life on hold um while this was happening. And she obviously that was a very hard time for her. So when she finally recovered enough to, I guess, get back into her life and really start pursuing her direction and her dreams, she decided that before she would launch her loyal degree that she would pursue another fun dream that she'd had, and that was taking modeling seriously. So Reva had always dabbled in modeling, she was a finalist in the post-faces of the future competition in 2004. So this was kind of like she was like 14 or something when she was first kind of scouted for modelling, so she was always kind of dabbling in modelling while she's also incredibly bright, very athletic, so just a triple threat, really.

Carrie 7:18

Yeah, imagine those being your choices. I might just uh put my laudigree on the shelf for now and do some modelling. What a woman.

Clare 7:27

What a woman. Mm-hmm.

Carrie 7:28

Yeah. Look, I can't put myself in those shoes, but good on her.

Benny 7:34

She's doing social work, she's she's bright, she's beautiful.

Clare 7:38

Unsurprisingly, based on what we're saying, she she found success pretty quickly. And she became the first face of Avon in South Africa. Also naturally charismatic, she moved into TV, working as a presenter on fashion TV and appeared in a number of advertisements. Um, I also did see this, and it feels very millennial to talk about this because it was kind of like this is like early 2000s or like 2010-ish. But she was also featured in FHM's 100 Sexiest Women in the World in 2011-2012. Those were big publications back in those days.

Carrie 8:16

Oh, yeah, every boy had like a FHM on their wall, didn't they? This is true.

Benny 8:21

That's that's international news and that's not just like South Africa. That's wow, okay, yeah.

Clare 8:25

Reva was also a staple in tabloid media. She was often seen at public events. She was very big in the social scene around South Africa, and her high-profiled relationship with South African rugby player Francois Hog Hogard. Sorry, South African people if I'm getting that wrong. I don't know how to pronounce it. Hogard? We're gonna go with that. It's probably wrong. Apologies, listeners. Apologies. So around the same time though, Oscar Pastorius, also an up-and-coming social star, he would also become a staple in the social scene. So it's not surprising that the two would meet and quickly begin dating at in the late part of 2012. So before we get into the relationship, let's talk a little bit about Oscar Pastorius. Oscar was born on the 22nd of November 1986. Can you guys believe that he's like our age?

unknown 9:18

No.

Benny 9:18

I know I couldn't believe he's younger than me.

Clare 9:20

I thought he was way older than that.

unknown 9:22

Anyway.

Benny 9:23

Serever was a few years older than him.

Clare 9:25

Yes. Yeah. Um, he was born in Johannesburg, South Africa. The Pastorius family was an affluent family with the extended Pastorius family owning, I did see over a hundred companies. So they had money and were kind of like entrepreneurial from what I understand, as a extended family. So there's a lot of money in their Pastorius name. Oscar had two siblings, an older brother and a younger sister. Oh my gosh, I'm gonna I'm gonna attempt to pronounce his disability, but I don't know if I'm gonna get it right. Okay, so Oscar was born with fibula hemil hemolimilia.

Carrie 10:06

Where is Meredith Grey when you need her?

Clare 10:08

Fully. I was like, I even practiced it today, but I fumbled on burglar, so you know, like that's where that's where we're there's our guest spot on the pit going up in flames.

Carrie 10:17

We can't even pronounce these names. I know fibula is like a a leg bone, a foot bone. I want to say it's a leg bone.

Clare 10:25

It is a leg bone. This could be described as an absence of the fibular bone. So these are the bones in kind of like the lower extremity of the leg, like below the knee.

Benny 10:36

And his feet were deformed too, I believe.

Clare 10:38

And his feet were deformed. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So when Oscar was just 11 months old, his parents made the difficult decision to amputate both of his legs halfway between the knees and the ankles. So if you imagine um the knee joint is completely there, and then just maybe a few inches of the lower leg are left, and then the rest has been amputated. So not long after this, Oscar was fitted for his first pair of prosthetic legs. His parents set the tone for Oscar even at this early age that his disability would not define him or hold him back from any opportunities. And it certainly didn't. Once he began school, it was clear that Oscar had a natural ability for sport. All sports really. He was incredibly athletic and naturally picked up most sports that he played. However, during his teen years, he would take rugby as his primary sport that he excelled in. Many of his classmates had commented that they didn't even realize he was wearing prosthetic slegs because his talent was talent and I guess that lesson instilled from an early age that he wouldn't be held back or treated differently. So he just really just took it all in his stride, and you really couldn't tell unless um, you know, like his prosthetic came loose or something like that.

Benny 11:52

I saw quite a cute interview of him talking about like growing up and things like that, and he mentioned that he didn't see himself as having a disability when he was a boy. He talked about like his parents would say, like, go put on your shoes, and his older brother would put on his shoes and he would put on in his he just thought he had a different pair of shoes, he said. I thought that was quite cute.

Clare 12:07

Yeah, absolutely. And I think even um in those uh you're right, Ben, in a lot of those um interviews that he does, and this is I guess where he becomes a pretty quick motivational speaker in his in his sporting career, is because that that attitude of just talent and the pursuit of greatness, I think that's something that he pushed quite a lot. And I guess like his parents kind of did that as well, like kind of instilled that you could you could excel as much as anybody else, you have the same opportunities as everybody else. But when Oscar was 15, he tragically lost his mum at only 43 years old. He has often credited her influence to the pursuit of sporting excellence, so similar to what we were saying. In 2003, he also suffered a serious knee injury that would change his sporting direction forever. After being told that he was unlikely to ever play rugby again, the doctors suggest that he take up sprinting to get the movement back in his legs. Unsurprisingly, Oscar was a natural. And not long after being fitted for his first pair of racing blades, Oscar entered his first race that he would win and he set a new record. By all accounts, he was outrageously fast from the get-go, like just crazy fast. Oscar then spent the next few years perfecting his sprinting. He would compete across many world championships, Paralympic Games, and set a number of world records. He certainly had his share of controversies in the sporting world. So the type of running blades that he was using were pulled into question a couple of times because of how fast he was. So people had maybe implied that they were giving him an unfair advantage. So something about the the angle of the blades that the spring that the blades have in them, some were implying that he was getting a, I guess like a push-off advantage. Um, but he was forced to undertake a number of tests with scientists to like see how the blades were operating and how they were moving. And they declared that he was that he was so naturally gifted that the blades were actually probably slowing him down. And if he had legs, he probably would be faster than he would be with the blades. So I did see another podcast refer to, and I couldn't find this interview myself, but um, that some people had kind of spoken about him the same way they speak about Michael Phelps as just somebody who is just like just a like freak of nature, just born to do it, just has did that natural athleticism, like the I guess the length of the body and all that sort of stuff. Like everything was in his favour, I guess, to be a natural runner.

Benny 14:50

So these blades he were using, were they kind of a new thing that only he had or something? Like I guess like was he kind of using some sort of experimental or new version, and that's why they were sort of critiquing him as opposed to other Paralympians?

Clare 15:02

Yeah, I don't think they were experimental, but they think the I think the type of fibre they were using was um relatively new. And because he was winning by such a large margin, that was what people were saying of well, there must be something in these blades. But apparently the blades he was using became pretty common not long, not too long after all of that was sorted.

Benny 15:23

Yeah, because looking at say like the 2012 Olympics that you were talking about, like they they all seemed to be running with the same blades by then. So that's why I was wondering. Like, I wondered why he was being called up. Okay, so that makes sense.

Clare 15:34

Yeah. So in his final Paralympic Games in September of 2012, um Oscar would walk away with gold in the 400 meters, gold in the 400 meter relay, and silver in the 200 meters. Throughout his career, people would always speak about him as being extremely competitive, very motivational, and inspiring. As his fame grew though, those around him did comment that he was becoming increasingly egotistical and could be quite demanding. Regardless of this, Oscar was living the high life. He'd purchased a new home in the gate in a gated community in Pretoria, had released a memoir, he'd had many brand deals with like very top-notch brands. He's been in every magazine cover. He was on the cover of Time magazine as well. So like he certainly like on a global scale, he was really starting to excel.

Benny 16:25

He had a Nike contract. Yes, Nike contract. Yeah, big stuff.

Clare 16:29

Yeah, big, big stuff. And now he was enjoying the social scene alongside his beautiful new girlfriend, Reefa Steencamp. Many described this relationship at the time as being in the honeyfoon, honeymoon phase and quite a good match. However, the relationship would not see past this time because only three months later, Refa would be dead. So it's probably worth throughout this case just remembering that they were only dating for three months. Like this is a really, really new relationship, and they were like a staple in the social scene. They were attending a lot of events together. There were stacks of paparazzi photos of them together. So they certainly were making, like, I guess, like a statement early that they were like very committed very early on. So I think it got serious very quickly.

Benny 17:13

That was an aspect that I had forgotten or perhaps didn't even know from the case was just how short the time frame of their relationship was. I don't think I realized that it was just three three months or so.

Clare 17:22

Yeah.

Benny 17:23

I did see that um their first date together was to like a sporting award, so like quite public right from the get-go, I think.

Clare 17:29

Totally. Yeah. And I guess there's probably an appeal in that um of that level of celebrity too, right? Where if you find somebody else who's already experiencing celebrity themselves, being able to kind of not have to shy away from that or not have to get people used to that, and not having to worry too much about how they're going to cope in a situation like that. So maybe there's like an appeal there as well of that social standing, maybe.

Carrie 17:56

And I guess they're both they're both public figures, they're both getting probably paparazzi attention anyway.

Clare 18:02

Yeah.

Carrie 18:03

What's the point in hiding it?

Clare 18:04

Yeah, good point.

Benny 18:06

And she's used to the camera. Like I saw um interviews of her on the red carpet talking about him and his performance and things. Like, she was obviously quite media trained, so I'm sure I'm sure she'll get right in like from the get-go.

Clare 18:16

Yeah, and especially because so this is the when they started dating, this is after the Paralympics and the Olympics. So he is now like he is everywhere, and this is only kind of like a month or two after that's happened. So he's really probably at the peak of his fame, and for her as well, now she's like, she's quite a known name in South Africa, and now she's getting global recognition, I guess. Now being associated with him as well. Um, there's probably that element as well. Yeah.

Benny 18:45

I was listening to the Red Handed podcast. I know I talked a lot about them in their last case, but I also listened to their coverage of of Oscar Um and Reaver's story. And they they almost likened them to for South Africa, they're almost becoming like a Posh and Beck's type figure. Like they're not quite there because they were so new, but that's kind of the intensity of their fame and their celebrity was kind of growing at that rate.

Clare 19:05

Yeah, absolutely. And to see, I mean, let's call it out, they're both incredibly attractive, and they're both young and fresh and interesting and ambitious in different fields. So, like they really are, I guess, like in terms of celebrity, they're like a bit of an everything couple, aren't they?

Carrie 19:26

You can see why they were media darlings. As you said, beautiful, yeah, yeah, easy on the eyes, successful, so much kind of vibrancy around them.

Clare 19:36

Vibrancy is a good word, yeah. So this brings us to the 14th of February 2013. The outline of what happened that night comes from the account of Oscar, the only living person who was there. So it's important when listening to this to remember that it's a version of events. So Reva and Oscar spent the evening before, so this is February 13, eating dinner and chatting. They had plans for Valentine's Day the next day. Reva had instructed Oscar that he was not allowed to open her gift to him until the morning. Before retiring to bed, Reva did some yoga and Oscar removed his legs, a process that he would do at the end of each night. He also placed a 9mm gun underneath his side of the bed, so like tucked underneath the bed. And the pair then went to bed around 10 p.m.

Benny 20:25

Do you think it's unusual that yoga before bed just kind of strikes me as a bit odd? Like, doesn't that wouldn't that kind of wake up your body in circulation? Isn't that kind of a quite a um a stimulating activity to be doing before you go to bed?

Clare 20:38

I guess some people use it for meditation. So I guess maybe if it was like a wow like maybe she was using it to like wind down at the end of the day. I think there's relaxation type she can do.

Carrie 20:48

I think it depends on what style.

Clare 20:52

But it is, but it's a good call out then because it's not generally a activity that people talk about late at night. They kind of talk about it early in the morning or wake you up. Yeah, yeah. Like set you for the day kind of thing.

Benny 21:02

But you're right, maybe it was more a meditational style. Yeah, okay. Yeah.

Carrie 21:06

I don't know if you're gonna talk about this later. So if you are just tell me to be quiet. But I know some people think, oh, it's so strange that he would have a gun under his pillow, but they're in South Africa, which is a very dangerous place. There's a lot of gun violence, it's extremely different to where we live.

Clare 21:24

Yeah, it's a really good call out, Carrie, and I was gonna talk about it a little bit later, but I think it's worth talking about it now. So you're absolutely right. So later on in the trial, the defence do talk a lot about Oscar's ongoing fear about home invasions, which I think is worth talking about now, because in Pretoria the home invasions were extremely high. So the country in the early 2000s was seeing approximately 300,000 home invasions annually, and Pretoria was known as a hot spot. Also, the murder rate in Pretoria was extremely high. As well. So you're right, Carrie. Having a gun in your house was not totally uncommon. So I think it's a good call out up front.

Benny 22:09

Yeah, apparently South Africa had the highest crime rate in the world at the time. I'm not sure about today, but at the time was highest. And one in ten people had guns and multiple guns at that. So it's yeah, it's it certainly wasn't that unusual. Yeah. Particularly when you've got that celebrity status and that money. I mean, he bought into this essentially a gated community, you know, like they had full 24-7 guards, patrolling guards, electric fences, biometric scanners, like they were paying for security because of exactly that fear.

Clare 22:36

Yeah, exactly. And there was like I did I did read in a couple of different places as well that he was even scouting homes in other countries for this, as his like celebrity was rising out of I guess like fear of being targeted, or and I guess also him and Reaven now being on the red carpet staple. Now people if they know where his house is, assume she's there as well, potentially. Like there's probably a number of factors that could play into that.

Benny 23:07

He did own a couple already uh that might come into the story later, but I know he had a he had a place in Italy, and I think they mentioned somewhere else as well.

Clare 23:14

So they go to bed around 10 p.m. In the early hours of the 14th, Oscar says that he woke up due to the heat and humidity, and he got up to open the balcony doors and move a fan inside to cool the room down. He says that Reaver awoke here and said something to the effect of can't you sleep, which he then explained the heat to her, and then he continued to bring the fan inside. So this is around 3 a.m. Oscar says that he heard a noise during this process. He heard a noise coming from the bathroom. He described it as sounding like someone opening the bathroom window. Oscar says he immediately assumed that this was an intruder. He reached under the bed and grabbed a gun and he whispered to Reaver, called the police, and began walking down the hallway to the bathroom. It's important to note that Oscar says that they slept in the pitch black, so they had like blackout blinds and everything, and that he didn't turn on the lights, and he also didn't wait for Reaver to respond to him before he started moving down the hallway. Also worth pointing out when I say that he did walk down the hallway, he was not wearing his prosthetic legs. However, he was able to walk at a slow pace on his stumps. Once he got to the bathroom, he saw that the bathroom window was indeed open. So worth explaining the layout of the house at this point. So in the house, so if you picture the bedroom, there was a small hallway that ran off the bedroom that led into a bathroom. So the bathroom had, as he described it, a window, but it also had like the basin and a mirror and like um like the shower. Um, but then there was also a toilet cubicle inside the bathroom with a lockable door. So you could be in the bathroom and then the the toilet itself is separate. So it's inside the bathroom, but it's got its own door.

Carrie 25:12

I'm just looking at that map now.

Clare 25:14

Yeah, can you see the map now?

Carrie 25:16

Yeah, and it's actually helped me. It's helped a lot, yeah.

Benny 25:20

We'll put a picture of this on our Instagram people at Death and Taxes Pod so you can kind of see the I think it's helpful to see the layout, yeah.

Clare 25:26

I think it would be super helpful. While in the bathroom now confirming that the window was open, Oscar says he realized that the toilet door was closed and locked, and that the intruder must be inside there. He claims that he yelled for the intruder to leave the house and that he yelled out for Rever to call the police. Oscar says he believed the intruder was trying to come out of the door towards him, and as a result, he fired his gun four times in quick succession into the door. Oscar then moved back to the bedroom. He says he didn't turn the lights on because he was afraid. He says it was at this moment he realized that Reaver wasn't in the bed. After looking around the room for her, he says that it was in this moment that he realized it must have been her in the toilet. He says he then went back down the hallway to the bathroom door and tried to open it. So he's trying to like bash the door in and yelling out with no luck. So then he says he went he then walked back to the bedroom, he put on his legs, and he grabbed a cricket bat. So he says that the reason why he put on his legs, because he can walk on his stumps, but it's at low slow speed. And when he realized that he couldn't break the door down, he realized he was going to need a cricket bat and he needed that extra force. So that's why he put his legs on.

Benny 26:50

I think he tried to kick the door initially and it wasn't effective, and I think and he got the bat.

Clare 26:54

Yeah. So then he returns to the bathroom with the cricket bat and he uses the bat to break down the door. When he breaks down the door, it's revealed that indeed it was Reva inside the toilet. She has been shot by him three times. I'm gonna go through the injuries now. So, listeners, if you would prefer not to hear it, just scroll ahead a little bit. The first bullet hit Reva in the right hip. It fractured her right hip bone, causing her immediately to drop to the floor. She also sustained a shot injury to her arm, likely as she raised her hand to protect her head, and finally a fatal bullet that struck her in the head or in the skull. So when Oscar breaks the door down, Reva is weak but still alive. Oscar says he then moved Reaver's body downstairs and called the gated community manager, Jonah Strander. He then called an ambulance and the e-security officers. So as you were pointing out earlier, Ben, they're part of a gated community. So there's like security, there's um like private medical people, there's like public ambulances. So he kind of calls everybody essentially in this time period.

Benny 28:09

So he calls the manager of the building manager or whatever before the ambulance. Is that what you said?

Clare 28:15

Yeah, but I believe that I believe when he called him, he called him and said, I've I've shot Rita. Like he he announces it pretty quickly of I've shot Rita, I thought it was an intruder, we need an ambulance. I don't know, and maybe us uh if we've got some South African listeners, they might be able to fill in the blanks here, but I believe that there's a number of like private hospitals in South Africa. And so like when you call an ambulance, it's not like a national service, from what I understand, which might also explain why he called the manager, the community manager first, and then an ambulance himself, because I think it might have been like an ambulance company potentially or a specific ho hospital or something like that.

Benny 28:55

Yeah, and the manager might have all the details and like the process for letting them in the gates and stuff maybe. Yeah, okay, that makes sense. Yeah. Yeah, okay. Yep.

Clare 29:04

So around 3:20 a.m., this is roughly when police and paramedics arrive on the scene, but sadly it was too late and Reva Steen Camp was pronounced dead on the scene. So before going to the next bit, what are an initial thoughts on what we've heard so far?

Carrie 29:21

There's just so much to me that doesn't make sense. It's just it's just not logical to me. A lot of it.

Clare 29:28

Yeah.

Carrie 29:28

Like if I thought there was an intruder, like I would be looking for my partner.

Clare 29:34

Mm-mm.

Carrie 29:35

Would be the first thing I would be doing.

Clare 29:37

Yeah. The thing that I find really interesting too is the the logic of if he really did think it was an intruder and the intruder's inside the toilet cubicle, the intruder has nowhere to go from there. So the decision then to Yeah. I guess like you've got the power then to like keep them in that room, block the door, or you know, so then the the decision to then shoot so many times through the door, I can't. But again, I guess like panic exists. So like if that intruder version of this is true, uh it's it's difficult to kind of explain, I guess.

Carrie 30:17

I mean, if you hear someone in the bathroom in the night, you would think it was your partner first.

Benny 30:24

Well, I guess he's thinking because he's just gone out onto the balcony to get this fan, and I guess in his head he believes Reva's still, he's just spoken to her, she's woken up apparently and said it's hot. I guess if he's just r turning around to get the fan, then bringing it back inside, and then he's a noise mentally he still thinks she's there beside him in bed, I suppose. If it's as dark as he says it is.

Carrie 30:44

Well, that also doesn't make sense to me. He says, I'm too scared to show him light, but he's able to think about getting a bat. He's able to think about like he's making all these other decisions that seem quite panicked. Yeah.

Benny 31:00

And he's able to bring in a fan and plug it in and turn it on in the dark, but not it's too dark to see whether there's a figure in the bed next to you. That seems a bit strange.

Clare 31:08

And also to your point about like protecting your partner too. If you like, so you get the gun out, wouldn't you tell your partner of like get under the bed or like call the police, get under the bed? Like something to like shield them, I guess.

Carrie 31:24

Uh and like, are you okay? Have they hurt you? There could be other people in the house, run.

Benny 31:30

Well, he's just been next to her though, like she's been next to him this time, like like so she hasn't he knows she's not hurt.

Carrie 31:38

That's true.

Benny 31:39

And he's told her to call the police allegedly. He's whispered call the police to her.

Carrie 31:43

But wouldn't you also be saying, have you called the police? What's happening? I think there's someone in the toilet.

Benny 31:49

So you mean come back from the bathroom to say these things to her?

Carrie 31:52

Well, looking at the apartment, it's very small. It like if I thought someone was in an intruder in the toilet, uh maybe guard the toilet and be like, Reaver, I think someone's in the toilet. Have you called the people? What are they saying? How how far are they gonna be? Yeah. Is it can you see anyone else? Make sure you're safe, you know. Yeah, whatever the case may be. That is true.

Benny 32:14

Because as Claire says, like she's he's got the advantage there. It's a it's a tiny little cubicle. There's not a gang of people in there, there's potentially one person, if anything, in there.

Clare 32:22

Yeah.

Benny 32:22

Um you've got the upper hand, you've got the gun pointed at the door, you've got time to ask whoever these questions to call them out.

Clare 32:29

The one thing that I didn't look up, and I I wonder if this is a thing in these ghetto communities of like noting that like security is important to them, whether or not there's like duress alarms inside these houses, of like especially if there's like a high crime rate, if there's a duress alarm or something like that. Again, I guess like in the moment, maybe you don't think about that stuff. I yeah, I don't Yeah.

Benny 32:53

Yeah. And he said that he's heard the door opening, like he's heard that they're about to come out or something that's unlocked, or allegedly, and and he feels uh threatened and shoots and so I guess he's in a in some he thinks he's in a hurry.

Carrie 33:05

Yeah. To say he hasn't even thought about the possibility like a thought about his partner in any way until it's all over, I find very odd and strange.

Benny 33:16

And I'd like to know where the phones are, like because he says go call the police and then goes into the bathroom himself, but then he comes back to find that she's not in bed. I believe this is a two-story apartment. There was some some stairs in the in the video walkthrough I store. Like, would you not think, like, if she's not in her bed, would you not think, oh, has she gone downstairs to call the police, or has she gone out to the security desk? Or it's strange that immediately he realizes it's her instead of thinking, like, has she gone to get help?

Clare 33:40

It's a really good point. So it's interesting you asked that question, and I wasn't sure whether or not where we would talk about this, but apparently when they do start the investigation and they look at the scene, Reva had two phones, two mobiles, and she had those inside the cubicle with her. So she had her phones with her in the cubicle. So the other part that I find interesting or doesn't quite make sense to me of if he got to the toilet door and he thought there was an intruder in there and he screamed out of, hey, get out of my house, blah blah blah, he yells for Rivera to call the cops. The part that doesn't make sense for me is assuming that he's like right in front of the door, surely she said something back to him at that point and went, What are you talking about? Like it's me in here, or I'm in the bathroom, or I'm going to the toilet, or like he he doesn't volunteer anything like that, that there was any indication that she was in there. I find that part hard to understand.

Carrie 34:40

If he's screaming at Yeah, if he's screaming, is she just gonna burst out of the door? No way. She's gonna be like, Babe, what are you doing?

Clare 34:48

Yeah, but at this on the flip side of that, I guess, if he's screaming at the door, maybe you would just stand up and go, What are you talking about? And like go to open the door and be like, What are you talking about? Maybe, but the door was still locked. Like he he the his his comment around he thought that they were gonna come out, the door was still locked. So I don't know where that logic comes from. And I don't know the timeline between him screaming, like calling for her to call the police and him shooting. I don't know, like that could have been super close in succession, I'm not sure.

Carrie 35:23

It just also doesn't make sense that you would go to the toilet in the middle of the night, like the middle of the night, take your phones with you and lock the door.

Benny 35:33

Good point.

Carrie 35:33

Locking the door is an unusual thing at this hour of the night. Well, why would you do that? Yeah. Because you're scared of the person on the other side. Why would you have your phone with you? Why would you lock the door?

Clare 35:47

I did also see that apparently they had also questioned the outfit she was wearing because she was wearing kind of like workout clothes, but clothes that you would assume somebody would be going out in, not sleeping in, and wasn't in like pajamas. However, as somebody who wears so many clothes to bed, this is not a red flag for me. Like I wear clothes I would leave the house in all the time to bed because I like to wear lots of layers.

Benny 36:17

So it's a hot humid night though, here. So I love it.

Clare 36:19

That's a good point. That's a really good point.

Benny 36:22

You would still wear multiple layers in that screen.

Clare 36:26

Never nudes, never nudes.

Benny 36:30

I have heard people talking about like why didn't she call out or something? And and I don't know if this came from Pristorius himself theorising this, but if he calls out there's an intruder in the house, she may have been staying quiet thinking I'm safe in here, I'm not gonna make noise, there's an intruder out there. She may have thought that staying quiet for her own safety in the bathroom was a good idea.

Carrie 36:50

Yeah. And lock the door in there, do you think? True.

Benny 36:54

Yeah, like I'm gonna stay in here, I'm not gonna make a sound. If there's an intruder in the house, I'm gonna stay here and be out of sight. That's that's one defense that I've heard as to why she may not have replied to him calling out.

Clare 37:03

That's a really good point because if he screamed that out and she was already in the toilet, so let's say he didn't realise that she wasn't beside him, he's run into the bathroom and he's carrying on and saying, Call the police, and she's got her phones with her. She didn't call the police, so we'll say that. But say he yelled that out and she then locks the door in the bathroom of going, Oh my god, and then so that's a really good point. If you did think there was an intruder in there, maybe you wouldn't yell out.

Benny 37:28

Make a sound, yeah, exactly. She may not realise that he's pointing at her thinking the intruder's in the toilet cubicle, she may think it's he's somewhere else in the house.

Carrie 37:37

Is this the balcony he's getting that's the fan from right next to the bed? You there's no way you wouldn't see her in the bed, like that she's not in the bed. There's no way. It's right next to the bed. For the listeners, you to bring the fan back in, you would be looking directly at the bed. Yeah. You can't tell me he wouldn't have seen if she was there or not.

Benny 38:01

I will, in his defense to Devil's Advocate, I do know that there's a massive issue with power in South Africa in general, particularly in the city areas where I don't know if you know this, but there's not 24-7 power. They don't have street lights. Power's rationed, and they actually have an app on their phone that tells them what hours of the day you have power because there's such a short supply, so they ration it off. So you might just have power between 1 and 4 pm and then it drops out for two hours. So potentially there's no street lights or city lights outside to illuminate. I think it's probably just worth mentioning that it could be a very dark, dark night, even with that door open, there may not be light coming in. Just something to consider. Yeah.

Carrie 38:39

He d he did use the the language pitch dark or pitch black in describing the light in the But if it's so dark and pitch black, how can you see your cricket bat and pick it up?

Clare 38:50

Yeah, that's fair.

Carrie 38:52

If you can see a tiny little cricket bat, I mean I don't know how big they are. How big would they possibly be? Smaller than a human.

Clare 39:01

Surely. Okay, so we're we're now bringing ourselves back to uh they've they've made all the calls. So I mentioned before, during the calls, Oscar openly admits I've shot her, I thought she was an intruder. So that story, he from from the second it's happened, that's his story, and that's the story that he's leading with. The first neighbor that arrived in the house did say that when they walked in, he was kind of like praying over her body and stuff, and she'd already passed. And again, openly admitted, I shot her, I thought she was an intruder. So when the police begin to canvass neighbours for what they might have heard, several neighbours claim that they heard a man and a woman arguing before hearing four loud bangs. And other neighbours say they heard a woman screaming before they heard the bangs. So at this time, the police really don't waste any time. They arrest him pretty much immediately. He's he's admitted it that he killed her. But it's probably similar to what we're talking about. Some of the elements of his story just don't add up for the police pretty much from the get-go. Um, and but Oscar maintains his position in the affidavits that he provides pretty much straight away in the days that follow. But the police don't let up and they do continue to pursue murder charges. The public fallout is swift for Oscar. Major advertisers and sponsors quickly drop in, mostly from public pressure, actually. Um initially some brands are kind of like they kind of like sit on it for a little bit, and then the public fallout is happening super fast, and I guess like the push to distance themselves happens pretty quick.

Benny 40:41

Which is hard because he hasn't, I mean, he's been charged with murder at this point, but he hasn't been he hasn't been legally been found guilty or anything.

Clare 40:48

It's yeah, agreed.

Benny 40:49

I I mean I agree it's the right thing to do, but it is kind of tricky when he's mate still maintaining innocence at this point.

Carrie 40:55

Yeah, absolutely. Do you guys think it's odd that every single person he interacts with he immediately says, I shot her because I thought she was an intruder? Like at this point, does he even know if she's alive still? Like, wouldn't you be like, oh my god, help her, help her, and then worry about that later. Do you find that odd, or is it just me that thinks that's strange?

Clare 41:15

I think by the time she got down, they took her to the second floor. I think she was I don't think there was much they could have done. I don't think.

Benny 41:25

Yeah, because I know that he used hollow point bullets, which he shouldn't have had. I think that was his something he's additionally charged for. But they essentially they look like a normal bullet, but they have kind of like a little claw on the top of them. And basically, once it penetrates your flesh, this is a bit awful. Um, they basically peel back and it becomes like a claw that sort of just rips through your skin. They do a lot of damage, and that's what they're designed to do, and it's why they're so illegal. Um, and given that she was shot in the temple, I imagine regardless he did try to perform CPR on her, but I think it'd be pretty evident that there's that she's gone.

Clare 41:56

They have a pretty horrific name too, don't they, Ben? Like they call them something.

Benny 42:00

Um forget it.

Carrie 42:03

Um he himself had made a tweet about them saying they were zombie killers.

Clare 42:08

Zombie killers, you're right. Along those lines. Yeah.

Carrie 42:10

I can't remember what the tweet was.

Clare 42:13

So if you're wondering if this was Oscar's first incident involving a gun, it certainly was not. Oscar had been familiar with guns since an early age, as we said earlier. Um, and it was not uncommon for him to have one or more guns in the house or on his person. In the months prior to Reaver's death, Oscar had been involved in three separate incidences involving a gun, noting that like two of them are kind of simultaneous, so we'll just refer to them as two at this point. So in September of 2012, Oscar was driving a car with his then girlfriend Samantha Taylor, so this was before he was with Reaver, and a friend. And after a verbal altercation with a traffic officer, so I believe they were stopped, um, either for speeding or I'm not exactly sure why they were stopped, but he the the officer either touched his gun or made some comments about his gun, and Oscar got quite aggressive with the policeman. And then when they left, he then shot his weapon through the car's sunroof, and then he also shot his gun at a traffic light. So he kind of has this kind of like rage outburst and shoots the gun several times um with people in the car.

Benny 43:25

In view of the police officer, or is this the first one? No, the police officers, yeah, they've driven off. Yeah, yeah. The friends kind of have later reported this, obviously.

Clare 43:32

Yeah.

Benny 43:33

Well, I didn't know that.

Clare 43:35

Yeah. And then in January of 2013, Oscar and his friend Darren Fresco were at a restaurant during the run the lunchtime rush. Oscar was handling a gun under the table when it accidentally went off and just missed his friend's foot and made a huge hole in the ground. So Oscar initially asked his friend to take the blame so that he wouldn't get media backlash. This is January, so like the Olympics has just happened. Um, and which the friend did. The friend did take the blame for it, but later on it comes out that it was Oscar. And Ben, you mentioned the types of bullets that Oscar was known to use. And Carrie, you mentioned a tweet that Oscar had referred to these bullets as zombie killers in the past. So his I guess like fascination with guns or familiarity with guns is something that was like pretty prevalent and he was pretty open about it. He certainly wasn't hiding it at all.

Carrie 44:32

Yeah, like I think he had a well-documented history being at gun ranges. He was certainly trained in how to use weapons and knew what their impact would be.

Clare 44:40

Yeah, exactly.

Carrie 44:41

So you could never argue he didn't know the impact of what he was doing.

Clare 44:46

Exactly.

Carrie 44:47

I had actually heard that he shot someone's toe off in that restaurant thing, so that's interesting.

Clare 44:51

Oh really? I don't know if that's true. Oh, I don't know.

Benny 44:54

She was she was wounded, is what I is what I heard. Yeah. I don't know if it was from the marble shattering or if it was the bullet ricocheting or whatever, but she her foot was wounded in that in that incident.

Clare 45:04

Oh, okay.

Benny 45:04

I will just remind you that, like, to devil's advocate, I guess, just reminding that one in ten people have guns here. So, like, yes, he has a strong interest, and yes, he owns multiple guns, but so do most people, is the is the reality.

Clare 45:15

That is true.

Benny 45:16

And I did hear that he was in the process when this happened, he was in the process of applying for six more guns or something, another license or an other types of licenses that would now allow him to carry these other high-powered weapons. So he was in the process of getting more.

Carrie 45:28

But I definitely agree with all of that, but I guess for me, it's like, and we'll probably talk more about um the defence's arguments for him at a later point, but it doesn't strike me his behavior as someone who's particularly scared, worried, feeling like he seems to have a quite a blasé attitude towards using weaponry.

Clare 45:52

That's a good way of putting it. Yeah. Because similar to what you were saying, Carrie, I I think about it a lot around as well of going, okay, so let's say he thought it was an intruder. He either thought it was Reaver or he thought it was an intruder. Either way, he knew the damage that those gut those bullets would do, and he shot through that door knowing you did not shoot to wound, you did not shoot to warn. Knowing the impact. Knowing so, like, regardless of who was behind the door, that impact was a deliberate decision to do that. Absolutely agree. So it's important to mention these incidences, as by the time he gets to trial, so it was set for August, Oscar not only faced the murder charges, but also reckless endangerment charges for the two weapon incidences. The prosecution were taking absolutely no chances with this case. They wanted to paint a full picture of what they were alleging Oscar was, a man quick to anger and it and with a history of weapon misuse. When we do get to trial, we meet a very different version of Oscar Pastorius. Not the one the public had become so used to. The confident, competitive, and charismatic athlete was replaced by an extremely emotional and downcast Oscar Pastorius. Flanked in court by his family who stood by his side throughout the trial. He was faced with Revis family for the first time. So the South African court system is a little bit different than other countries might be expecting for a case like this. So there are no jury trials in South Africa, but instead they have a singular judge who makes the determinations of a case. So worth just calling that out if people are curious about who was in the room. So it was, um, and you can watch footage of the trial. Um, it's all uh it's all available to you on YouTube, and um they did allow journalists in there as well. So there's a lot of documented photos and footage of the actual whole proceeding. Um, but at the end of the day, that the judge was the one that makes the final call on the whole trial. So during the trial, we got to hear the prosecution's version of events for the first time. They claimed that Reva and Oscar had likely gotten into an argument in the bedroom after shouting at each other, which they claim is supported by the neighbors' versions of events. So those neighbors that heard say they heard arguing and screaming before the bangs. That Reva then took her cell phones into the toilet and locked herself in there as a way to get away from Oscar. Then, in a fit of anger or rage, Oscar had shot Reva deliberately through the door four times. So there were disputes through the trial about the angles of the bullets hitting the door and whether or not Oscar had actually been on his stumps or his legs. Basically, kind of like implying that the angles of the bullets might have implied that he was on his legs. But this was pretty quickly debunked. So I'm just kind of calling that out there, but noting that it was debunked really quickly that he clearly was on his stumps based on the angles.

unknown 48:58

Okay.

Clare 48:58

To support their version of events, the prosecution who had seized Oscar and Reaver's cell phones spoke about a number of text messages between the pair. The lengthy exchanges of text messages, like a crazy amount. And again, remembering I guess they'd only been together for three months. And when you're first with someone, you are texting a crazy amount. So it was a lot of messages, but it's not uncommon. I don't think that that's necessarily an uncommon thing. So what the lengthy exchanges showcased, though, according to the prosecution, was a relationship that was wonderful one minute and then turned nasty the next. The prosecution noted four text messages from Reaver, one in particular from just two weeks before her death. Reaver had spoken about Oscar's possessiveness and that despite her efforts to make him happy, he was never happy with her. In two examples they shared, Reva had written, I am scared of you sometimes, and how you snap at me and how you will react to me. And in another text, she had said, I can't be attacked by outsiders for dating you, and be attacked by you, the one person I deserve protection from. So it is worth calling out to play devil's advocate that he was quick to acknowledge these in the response text messages to this and was pretty apologetic. Again, though, they had only been together for three months. Like this is like pretty heavy commentary to be having with someone that you've only been with for three months. Like these kind of problems this early on in a relationship or at all is not okay. But writing messages like that this early on doesn't look good.

Benny 50:36

Yeah, and there were so many, weren't there? There were so many messages, like, yeah, there were some loving ones, but there were also lots of um forcing her to leave hard like socially awkward things where they'd have to leave early because he flipped out about something and exactly arguments where he'd um she said things along the lines of like I'm not your M quotation marks bitch or ho, or like obviously using words that he was using against her. Yeah.

Carrie 51:01

Um that's why that's how definitely coercive control, definite evidence of coercive control. And even though he may have said sorry, I think it's quite common for abusers to commit acts of coercive control or violence against someone, and then yeah, say sorry and be really loving, and that's why it's so such a complex situation.

Clare 51:24

Yeah, and you're right, Ben. There's they they do talk a number of times in the text messages about like embarrassing incidences that had happened in front of friends or in the public. So he also they also weren't hiding this stuff, wasn't happening just behind closed doors. Other people had seen this stuff happening, and again, but they were like that flipping kind of thing of like this media darling couple and stuff with the harsh reality of these text messages or exchanges. It just seems so early to me to be happy.

Carrie 51:54

Like doesn't it? Just a couple of months. Yeah, yeah.

Benny 51:58

It's so surprising given her her advocacy for women in domestic abuse situations. And in fact, I heard that the the very next day, that the day that she was murdered, she was due to go to a school and give her talk on domestic abuse, and it's it just seems so at odds with her character to be in that situation herself so early in a relationship.

Clare 52:19

Yeah, absolutely. The prosecution also called Oscar's former girlfriend Samantha Taylor to the stand. Um, so Samantha talked about her time with Oscar. She also shared that she had experienced him being super controlling and emotionally volatile, is how she described him. She said that he often had angry outbursts and was always carrying guns. Um, she's done a number of interviews post-the trial. I think she might have even written a book or commentaries about her time with him, but certainly she does paint him in a very similar light to, I guess, what the prosecution has implied in the court. Um the layout of the house was also called into question Oscar's versions of events. The prosecution put to the court that it was impossible to believe that Reva would not have responded to Oscar's yelling and that she, even if the shots had been in quick succession, would not have yelled or screamed when being hit the first time. Reva's two phones, I mentioned this earlier, were found in the toilet as well where she had been shot. The prosecution argued that at 3 a.m. it was likely that she had them as either a way to flee or to contact someone. Um they also disputed Oscar's claims. So when the neighbors say that they heard a woman screaming, Oscar had told the police that it was him screaming and that he screamed like a woman.

Benny 53:43

So like Ned Flanders.

Clare 53:45

Yeah, exact fully. Yes, exactly like that. Yeah. Um they also used Samantha, who says when she was on the stand, who says that she had confirmed that she had heard him scream before and that he did not sound like a woman when he screamed.

Carrie 54:00

I don't want to know how she knows that, but okay. Yeah.

Clare 54:06

So when the defence laid out their case, they did not deny that Oscar had shot and killed Reva, but that he had, as he had claimed all along, mistaken her for an intruder. The defense worked to debunk some of the neighbour's testimonies who, under examination, couldn't be sure if the banging that they heard, so the four bangs that they heard were gunshots, or were they that of the cricket bat of when Oscar was breaking down the door? So if you think about him like doing like really strong, heavy swings of the bat, those kind of like chopping sounds. The pros the defense kind of claimed that that could be mistaken for the bangs.

Benny 54:45

And the witnesses were quite a distance. I don't know if you're planning to get into this, but they were okay, right, yeah, yeah.

Clare 54:51

No, no, no, keep going. Yeah.

Benny 54:52

It was misreported initially. They it was I think they said 600 metres. That's not true, it was 600 feet. It was about 300 meters, was the furthest witness who said that they heard the screaming the gum shots, which is in a gated community, 300 metres away is pretty that's pretty far to be hearing that and to know where it's coming from, or to you know.

Clare 55:10

Yeah.

Benny 55:10

And the other was just under uh uh what was it 130 metres or something? With uh away was the was the closest one, so still quite away.

Clare 55:18

Yeah. I guess if it's like dead silent though at 3 a.m. Like if you went out on your street right now and you screamed, actually, no, let's that's that's too easy. If you screamed in your house at 3 a.m., could somebody down the end of your street hear it? I don't yeah, I don't know. It's a good point. I mean the balcony door was open, but I mean, yeah.

Benny 55:39

And the bathroom window was open, so yeah, that's true.

Clare 55:43

That's true.

Benny 55:43

It's interesting. It's yeah, it definitely puts into question their reliability for sure. And it did in this in the Yeah, it did.

Carrie 55:50

Yeah. I'm just saying, what kind of a robber hits the toilet as the first? I mean, what are you wanting? The toilet paper, the toilet brush? What what you going for? Yeah. It's not COVID. We've got enough toilet paper. It doesn't make sense.

Clare 56:06

You're right. Especially because if they had opened the bathroom window, so like or like why would they not have just jumped out the window? If they if it was an intruder, why wouldn't they have just jumped out the window?

Benny 56:17

Do you know what floor the bathroom was on? Because in the in the video we walked through of the house, it was on this on the like up the stairs on the first level or whatever. But I don't know if the first level was below ground or anything. Do you know like was that window? Outside a second story, was it on was it a ground level window? Because I in my head I assumed it's a second level.

Clare 56:34

I think it's a second st I believe it's a second story, but that's a good point. Is it a second story, but there's some underground? I actually don't know the answer for that. That's a good question. I'm not sure.

Benny 56:44

Looking at the house, like the exterior pictures, it's there's more than one floor above ground. So I I believe I I imagine that that he thinks I've climbed in a window that's not on ground level.

Carrie 56:53

Yeah. If you're so terrified of getting robbed that you put a gun under your pillow, why are you opening the windows? Why is the balcony door open?

Benny 57:03

I had thought that's because it's off ground, I guess. Like, yeah, it's if it's not story up to the street. It makes no sense. Okay.

Carrie 57:09

No. Yeah. But then you don't need the gun. That's true.

Clare 57:13

So the defence also refute the summarization of their relationship, highlighting that a large volume of the text messages between the pair were loving and demonstrated a high level of long-term commitment and plans.

Carrie 57:24

All I want from my lover is a message saying they're scared of me. Yeah. That's true love.

Clare 57:30

After three months, after three months. It's wild. Um, I uh I mentioned earlier as well, the defense also talked about Oscar's ongoing fear of home invasions. So I mentioned earlier around the stats around Pretoria. So they did call out those stats. Um they also explained that Oscar's mother had also had strong fears of home invasions and that the ha the family would often have guns in the house to protect themselves. And I believe I did hear in a couple of podcasts that there, but I don't know how they could really prove this, other than Oscar's family talking about it, which might have some biases come into it, so I don't know how reliable this is. But that there'd been some incidences when he was a child of the mum thinking that she'd heard something in the house and like gathering everybody into a room, so like that kind of like panicking actions, but I couldn't find anything that proved that.

Carrie 58:26

So like even the place or leave that where they live and the rate of crime, it wouldn't surprise me. I mean, you'd have to say to probably be normal to be worried that that would happen. But in the same breath, it's happening so often, it wouldn't be as yeah, as if it would happen, you know, somewhere more safe in the world. Do you know what I mean? I'm not articulating it well, but you mean if it's happening, you know, to one out of three houses, it's not you think you would become desensitized to it to some degree. You know, it's probably happened to a lot of people you know and they don't end up dead.

Benny 59:05

True. I know what you're saying.

Clare 59:06

So there were also several of the examples where Oscar had demonstrated this fear, including a tweet in November of 2012 where he said, nothing like coming home to hear the washing machine on and thinking it's an intruder to go into full combat recon mode into the pantry.

Benny 59:25

So I mean it supports them being scared.

Carrie 59:29

See this this I don't read as fearful. I don't read that as fearful at all. To me, that's a joke.

Benny 59:36

I think that's making light of something that was probably pretty terrifying for him at the time. I think he's laughing about it in the tweet, but I think I think I I believe that there was a real fear in him. I don't I'm not saying I believe that at the this particular night he thought there was, but it sounds like security was a concern for him. Um and he's got flashy cars and he's got money and he's got you know his celebrity name. You know, he's he's becoming a target and that might be on his mind.

Clare 1:00:02

Yeah, that's true. So this revelation may have hurt the defence's case a little bit as well, because a friend also testified that he'd been staying at Oscar's house and he'd gone to get a drink from the kitchen. I don't know what time of day this was, but that Oscar pulled out a gun, like pulled a gun on him, explaining that he thought he was an intruder. So again, it kind of like highlights this pattern of fear of this type of incident. But alongside this and the other gun incidences, it also demonstrates a recklessness or an impulsive attitude towards guns, that he was just quite happy to have these guns just yeah, quick draw. Yeah. When Oscar took the stand in his own defense, he was highly emotional with a number of bouts of hysterical tears. In fact, throughout the trial, they had to have a bucket beside him because he threw up a number of times. He was highly emotional but continued to hold the same story. While on the stand, he tearfully addressed Revis' family, expressing his remorse, his pain, and the love for their daughter. You can find clips of him on the stand on YouTube that are pretty jarring to listen to because he he really is hysterical, and several times they have to kind of prompt him to try and compose himself. They take a number of breaks for him to try and compose himself. Um, but he doesn't let on about his story. He holds pretty steadfast that this is exactly what had happened. Um, the prosecution, though, they do push him really hard, they question him a lot, to the point where the um the judge also even kind of says to them, okay, like you've made your point. Like, so again, like it's difficult to kind of call this stuff out. But the defense also then claimed that he was suffering from mental illness and PTSD. So the courts then ordered a panel of three psychiatrists to go and test him, and so they have like a six-week break from the trial for him to get all of these tests done, which they conclude he is not, he's not suffering from either of these conditions. There is also a pretty famous moment of the trial where Oscar walks across the courtroom on his stumps. So this was done to demonstrate to the courts that while he can walk on his stumps, he cannot move at speed. And also explain why, after realizing Reaver was in the toilet, he took time to put his legs on before trying to break down the door. Um, so you you can find these photos. There are photos, pretty famous photos from the trial of this moment. Um, some had kind of pointed this out to trying to like humiliate him or embarrass him in front of the courts, but really it was kind of the benefit, I guess, for both sides to either prove that one he could move at speed, or that even though he didn't have his legs, he could still absolutely fire a gun. It does it's kind of irrelevant of whether or not he was on them or not.

Benny 1:03:10

I think it's a bit of both. Like I do remember that being reported heavily in the media, and I do think the media certainly picked that up because of people's like people I think were fixated with the the not the humiliation but the curiosity, I guess, of like this disabled man and and how what does he look like when he walks. I think there was kind of like a morbid interest in it as well.

Clare 1:03:28

Absolutely.

Benny 1:03:29

But I agree it it was relevant to the case, it wasn't a humiliation exercise. Like I remember those photos going viral.

Clare 1:03:36

Yeah. So in September of 2014, after a six-month trial, Oscar Pastorius was found not guilty of murder, but he was found guilty of culpable homicide of Reversteen Camp. So this is similar to a manslaughter charge. Oscar was then sentenced to a maximum of five years in prison for this crime. He was also found guilty of those two reckless weapon charges as well. So there was a huge public outcry about this verdict and sentencing, particularly the sentencing, with many believe that both failed to provide true justice for Reaver or demonstrate adequate punishment reflective of the crime. This outrage would only increase when when just one year later it was announced that Oscar would be released from prison and would be able to see out the remainder of his five-year sentence from his uncle's mansion in Pretoria. So his uncle lives in this like very lush mansion in the very ritzy part of town. His uncle had been basically the spokesperson for the family throughout the whole trial, and he'd been very much around that Oscar would he would support Oscar and he would live with him until his crimes were um or his sentencing was completed. So public outcry and fights for justice for Riva were so loud through South Africa that the Supreme Court took over to review the case and the sentencing. Following the review of the case, the Supreme Court overturned the culpable homicide verdict and found Oscar Pastorias guilty of murder. In July 2016, Oscar was then sentenced to an additional six years' jail for murder of Reversteen Camp. The state had pushed for them for the 15-year maximum, but the judge stated in their determination that the fact that he was a first-time offender had a low likelihood of re-offending, and the public opinion, while strong, could not influence the outcome, and believed that a long term of imprisonment would not serve justice.

Carrie 1:05:49

How they can say he's a first time offender when he literally had other gun offences that you guys charged him for and a low possibility to re offend.

Benny 1:05:58

Well, he wasn't charged for them, was he? There was he? That came out afterwards, I think, that he wasn't charged for those, remember? Because they one friend lied for him and the other one was out of sight of the cop, so I guess he didn't have any prior offences. I did find it interesting that the judge who gave the initial sentencing, when the Supreme Court overruled it, the same judge, the one who gave the incorrect ruling, was the one to then re-sentence. So they changed the verdict, but the same judge tried to give him a lenient sentence. It's bizarre.

Clare 1:06:26

On 5th of January 2024, Oscar Pastorius was released on parole after serving eight and a half years. He is currently living with his uncle in the mansion in Pretoria under strict parole conditions until his sentencing is finalized in December 2029. He is not allowed to give any media interviews, must attend anger management and gender-based violent orders. He's not allowed to consume alcohol, and his movements are subjected are subjected to supervision.

Benny 1:06:58

So he's kind of under house arrest still, is he? Basically.

Clare 1:07:03

In a mansion. Like he's allowed to leave, but he's basically under supervision. Yeah, pretty much the whole time. So following his release, Reva's family made the following statement. Has there been justice for Reaver? Has Oscar served enough time? There will never be justice if your loved one is never coming back. And no amount of time served will ever bring Reva back. We who remain behind are the ones who serve a life sentence. Following her death, her parents have dedicated themselves to pursuing her dream of supporting through supporting those who experienced domestic violence by creating the Reva Rebecca Steenkamp Foundation to educate and empower victims of violence. Ben, you mentioned this earlier, but the day um Reva was killed, she was scheduled to do a talk at a school with young girls. At the launch of the foundation, Reva's mother shared the speech that Reva had planned to share with that school.

Benny 1:08:04

Oh wow.

Clare 1:08:05

It included the following excerpt.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:08

Accept who you are. Acknowledge your absolute can-dos in life and work on your maybes so that you can be a better person for the ultimate upliftment of those around you. No matter how many people say they love you, if you do not love your own self, you will never step out some of the physical you. The physical can only do so much. If your mental you is locked in some of you in all confusion. Be brave and always be positive. Make your voice heard, your physical scene, and the presence of your mental health. It's that combination of your person that will leave a legacy and uplift. I hope that you all had an amazing Valentine's Day and you were spoilt with love and roses and chocolates. Go home and tell your parents, your siblings, your neighbors that they are appreciated. Appreciated. And you will go to bed with a happy heart and an open mind for the future.

Benny 1:09:18

Oh wow, I didn't know this. That's so sad.

Clare 1:09:21

Yes, so sub. And that's brings us to the end of our case.

Benny 1:09:26

So 2029 you said we will be his end of his sentence.

Clare 1:09:30

He'll be December 2029. So I I believe that there's been sightings of him out and about again supervised. He's not allowed to speak to the media. After his initial sentencing, I believe he did like some very basic clips, uh interviews where he talked about how Reaver would want him to dedicate his life to charity and all this sort of stuff. But I mean, her family certainly don't support him. And um they also called out, Reaver's mother in particular had called out that while he was serving his jail sentence that he was not attending the prescribed um like anger management or the gender-based violence courses, which to her indicate a man who's not shown true remorse for the actions.

Benny 1:10:21

What else has he got to do?

Clare 1:10:23

That's exactly right. That's exactly right, yeah. And um, I mean, I I don't know if we want to talk about this or not, um, but he has moved on with his love life and he does have a new girlfriend who it's quite jarring how similar she looks to Reva, and yeah, I mean, could be a coincidence, but it is quite jarring to see.

Carrie 1:10:45

But I feel like we should give our opinions. What do you guys think? Do you guys think he knew it was her? Do you believe his story? What do you think?

Benny 1:10:53

I I don't know. I'm I'm a little bit torn, I have to admit. I I think he did it. I think he knew it was her.

Carrie 1:10:59

Yeah.

Benny 1:11:00

But there is a little part of me that thinks there could have been genuine fear for an intruder. Um, but I think you've kind of swayed me a bit, Carrie, with the whole having her phones on her.

Carrie 1:11:09

But let's say, because this is kind of going back to something you said earlier, Claire, which is kind of the crux of it for me, is even if you believe his story and he thought that was an intruder, he went and used a weapon that he knew would kill somebody against someone who was locked in a room that wasn't a direct threat to him. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So does it matter?

Clare 1:11:35

Yeah. I also must say, and I encourage readers to read us, I encourage our listeners to go and have a look at the layout of the house. I must say that that for me probably cemented my feelings that I do think he knew it was her because the layout is very tight, it is very small, and I just think in terms of the the moments that he could have realized it, if it was an intruder, if he thought it was an intruder, there's several moments in his story that w he absolutely could have debunked that. So the you know, going to the the bathroom in the first place, not checking that Reva was there, yelling out, I don't I don't see a plausible reason of why she wouldn't have yelled back, of going, what do you mean? Or call the police about what? Like, what are you talking about? Yeah, before you shoot. Yeah.

Carrie 1:12:30

I do think they had an argument, and I think she was trying to leave, and that's why she was dressed. Yeah. And that's why she had her phones. And I think and my heart breaks for her and her family.

Clare 1:12:43

Yeah, me too. I think it also is um and I think what what um makes it really difficult is because and it's a really good, I guess, case study of like a fall from grace is kind of how this was pitched in the media. He was so famous and he was so inspirational, and he kind of built this whole image of himself, and then showing up in court as this kind of forlorn, just broken man. But I didn't mention this in there, but it's worth saying. So when he was out in b on bail, he was seen out on the scene, he was out at nightclubs, he did get into a number of kind of like altercations with people, and like he was all over the media, but he was still going out and things like that. So again, I you know, I just think that there's so many things that I go, I just don't know that I can buy the story.

Carrie 1:13:39

It's a good lesson too, in that we're seeing this social media or you know, this representation of this perfect couple, so successful, so beautiful, have you know, and the fact that a woman who can s be in one breath in their life speaking to other women about you know, being safe in domestic violence violence situations, but also being a statistic of one as well, and that that juxtaposition exists, yeah. And what we see on the outside, we'll never know what's happening behind closed doors.

Clare 1:14:17

Yeah, that's a really good point, Carrie. And even reflecting on the text messages that she was sending him that were clearly like having her own agency and calling him out for shit behaviour, and even in spite of that, staying with somebody, it's just heartbreaking of how these situations, like you said, are happening behind closed doors, and you just don't know that they are. And it's and it can happen to anyone.

Carrie 1:14:42

Yeah.

Benny 1:14:43

I do wonder, and I probably shouldn't put this in the podcast, but I wonder how much like his massively rising celebrity at that time played a part in her staying with him, you know. Like yes, she yes, she was a smart girl and she knew these things and she was independent, she could speak up, but there was you know, there was a red carpet and there was doors opening by being with him over there. Well, some money being flushed around.

Clare 1:15:04

Yeah, totally.

Benny 1:15:06

Totally leave when she knew she should.

Clare 1:15:09

They um there is a um on the I Could Murder A podcast episode, they talk a little bit about his a little bit more about I guess like the people around him seeing like a big flip of as his star was rising, him becoming kind of like openly volatile and a bit like really difficult to be around and just like just like big man on campus kind of like spoiled brat brat behaviour. Yeah, totally, totally. And um, I did think that side of it was quite interesting. Again, I didn't go into it because I was like, well, I mean, everybody's got a comment to say about this type of thing post something like this happening, right? Like everybody becomes an asshole after something like this happens.

Carrie 1:15:52

Of like And it would be hard not to be if you're just all into that, you know, you are an inspirational person, you are achieving incredible things, you know, you're doing the impossible, everyone's praising you, you're making all this money, like and that doesn't make you a murderer either. Yeah. You can be an asshole.

Clare 1:16:14

Absolutely, yeah.

Carrie 1:16:16

And fame and money could get to your head, and that doesn't make you a murderer.

Clare 1:16:20

And even that rise to like extreme fame, if if the if the Olympic Games and the Paralympics in 2012 were say like the peak of his fame, or that's when he became like a world-known, like across the world, people knew who he was, and this is only three months after that, or like four months after that. So, like that that period of when she first meets him, like that could have been like the absolute peak of being just told yes, being thrown money, you're this, you're that, you're everything, and then you've got this beautiful woman on your arm, like that that all of that environment could potentially play into some of that as well. Again, doesn't make you a murderer, but also doesn't excuse and so it was, you know.

Carrie 1:17:09

You can see why it would feed into the image he wants to have totally someone like her with him, and maybe her leaving him. Good point, yeah, and not only leaving him, but probably, you know, she's now got she's in the media, she's on TV, she's speaking about domestic violence. Is she gonna out him? Is she gonna bring this all crashing down if she speaks?

Clare 1:17:33

That's a really good point. That's a risk. It's a really good point, yeah.

Benny 1:17:37

And they're being like praised as this power couple in the media, like it's gonna the breakup is gonna be big news, regardless of whether or not she speaks about him. Just the fact that the that she left him is gonna be uh is gonna be front page news for a while.

Clare 1:17:49

Oh yeah. If um if any of our listeners are interested in learning more about um the foundation, you can find them um at reva steamcamp foundation.org. They also have an Instagram page with the same name. So I used a number of different sources for um the episode today. So Red Handed did a fabulous episode on this case. Also clues with uh Morgan Ashber and Kaylin Moore and I Could Murder a Podcast. Um, do a fabulous episode on this one as well.

Benny 1:18:24

What's it called? I Could Murder a Podcast?

Clare 1:18:26

Mm-hmm.

Benny 1:18:27

Haven't heard of that.

Clare 1:18:28

It's really good. It's these three guys, American guys, it's pretty good. It's uh they kind of like do the whole case and then they give their theories at the end or their opinions on the end.

SPEAKER_03 1:18:38

Yeah.

Clare 1:18:38

It's uh a good listen. Welcome back to Death Intact. I forgot what our podcast was going for a second there. Hemamilia. Okay. Oscar Oscar was born with fibula hemolema. Gang, this is gonna be tough. Fibula hemolema. I'm trying. I'm trying for I'm fighting for my life here. Don't put that in either. That's hold on. I found a little video, hold on. Okay, we're just gonna give it a good old crack.

Benny 1:19:29

Hemamilia.

Clare 1:19:30

Hemamilia?

Benny 1:19:31

Let's let's go with that. Hemamilia.

Clare 1:19:33

Okay. Oscar was born with fibula hemolema in both legs.