77 - Steven Stayner

It’s Monday December 4th, 1972, in a city called Merced, California. Seven-year-old Steven Stayner has spent an ordinary Monday in elementary school. When his mother arrives at school to collect him, there is no sign of Steven, and it soon becomes clear that Steven has not made it home on foot either.

Theme music by MVM Productions.

Transcript

Benny 0:00

This podcast covers a variety of true crime, mystery, and unexpected stories. A warning that episodes will contain graphic details and may not be suitable for everyone. Welcome to another episode of Death and Taxes, a True Crime Podcast. I'm Benny.

Carrie 0:25

I'm Carrie, and I'm Claire.

Benny 0:28

Now I have a long one for us today, ladies, so we don't have time to talk about the Gweneth Paltrow case updates, I'm afraid, and we don't have time to thank fan -of -the -pod Christine for her feedback, for our latest Spotify review, "the worst podcast ever and beyond irritating". So let's just get right into it, girls.

Clare 0:44

Love you, Christine.

Benny 0:51

It's Monday, December 4th, 1972, in a city called Merced, California. It's about 210 kilometers or 130 miles east of San Francisco, inland from the bay towards Yosemite National Park. Seven-year-old Steven Stayer has spent an ordinary Monday in elementary school. Now this is a newish school for Steven. The Stayner family have only very recently moved from the rural area of Merced County into town. They had previously owned and operated a 20-acre farm where they had this sounds gorgeous by the way, an almond grove, peach orchard, lots of animals. Um they had a cannery for like the the fruit on their property. But they'd been experiencing a few hard seasons in a row, drought primarily, I think, and the crops just weren't enough to make ends meet. And on top of that, Steven's father Del had done himself a serious um injury on the farm. He'd slipped a disc in his back. So they'd made this difficult decision to sell the land and move the family into town.

Clare 1:57

Oh, that sucks.

Benny 1:59

Do you know the name, Steven Stayner?

Clare 2:01

I know the name Stayner, but I'm not sure if I know the case. I don't know.

Benny 2:06

No googling. It's been about twelve months now. The family are kind of settled into routines. Steven's new home and school are about a quarter mile walk from one another, and the kids, like his siblings and he walk to school each day together. The eldest is eleven year old brother Carrie, he's in year six. Then there is nine year old Cindy, seven year old Steven I mentioned, and lastly five year old Jody. Now there is one younger sister who's not yet attending school, so in total there's five kids in the Stayner household. Jesus. They're a Mormon family too, so they're quite large families, I don't think. Now Steven's class finishes at 2 pm before his siblings who finish at 3 pm. And I'll be honest, I tried to figure out like the whole US elementary school system because I can see why like the older kids carry them there might go until 3 pm, but I don't know why his younger sister doesn't finish at the same time as him. So like why does it why is it just him? Um but it varies state by state and the school system over there, some some go to from like K to 5, some go to K to six. So maybe a listener can help us understand why this might be the case, but either way, I don't know why Jody doesn't finish. Steven finishes on his own before his other siblings. So Steven has become accustomed to making his own way home, but with friends who also finish at 2 PM, and they usually walk most of the same route home together. Today is different though. It's cold and raining. There's been a light covering of snow on the night prior. Um so Steven's mother, Kay, has decided that she'll be there at the gate for him when he finishes today. And this isn't something that they planned, like it's nothing she'd planned with Steven, but she's got some errands to run around town, and given the weather hasn't picked up, she's decided that she'll just time it so that she can be there at the gate to intercept him. However, she has gotten caught up in a line at the hardware store. She's running a little bit late. She keeps an eye out as she drives, just in case, like she's you know, she's past him and he's already started to walk, but she doesn't pass him. And she arrives at the school gate just after ten past two, so only ten minutes after the after he got out. Kay looks around the playground to find that there's very few of the two PM finishes still there. It's cold, nobody's loitering around after the bell, and Steven certainly isn't among them. Now Steven had been known to cut through people's yards to kind of take shortcuts, and I think this might be kind of one of those things about just growing up in on a farm in the countryside in this little Mormon community. Um it's maybe just something he doesn't realise isn't kind of not the dumb thing in town, but he's kind of made a habit of doing that.

Clare 4:42

Would he know how to get home by himself? Like would he know like the route. Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely.

Benny 4:48

Yeah, yeah, yeah. She thinks that she's just he might have cut through some yards and she's missed him on the route or whatever, but they've just kind of passed each other.

Carrie 4:56

Kids are quick too, ten minutes in kid time, they they can get far. Yeah.

Benny 5:00

It's about uh twelve blocks, I think it said. So she drives home only to find that there's no sign of him there. He hasn't arrived home yet either. At 3 pm, she returns to the school for the rest of the kids. And now at this point she's a little bit worried, but she's probably more so cranky. Stevie had on several occasions in the prior months gone off to play after school without permission. Um the most recent of these was only on the first of December, so just three days earlier he'd done this and got into gotten into quite a bit of trouble for it, so it would be surprising if he had done the same thing again so soon when he knows that he'll get in trouble. But she's not really thinking the worst. She gets on the phone to call around a few of his friends' houses and asks if Stevie's there or do they know where he is. A girl named Sharon says uh that she walked part of the way home with Steven that afternoon. That's kind of what they'd normally do. They usually do walk together, and today, as normal, they had parted ways at like a certain intersection when they kind of need to go after the different houses. And Steven would normally continue on with a boy named Hector, but his mother had met him at school today, they needed to needed to go shopping, so he wasn't there to walk the rest of the way with Steven today.

Clare 6:09

Did she say whether or not Steven had remember like had he forgotten that he was supposed to meet his mum there and he just like got questioned?

Benny 6:17

He didn't know that she was gonna meet her, so that was kind of sorry, yeah. Yeah, that was her decision. So there was there was no plan, she just wanted to try be there to meet him. Yeah, yeah. So he would have just walked if she wasn't at the at the gate. Kay and her husband Dell get in the car together and they drive around for a few hours searching for him. When 5 p.m. arrives and there's still no sign of him, they call the police to report him missing. The police don't take it too seriously, given it's only been a few hours and Steven has gone off playing before. But they do get in their cars and they continue kind of helping the search for on the streets too. They search parklands, they search places that, you know, a boy might be playing around after school. And they do question a few neighbours and shop kind of owners who are on the on the walk home that might have seen him pass. There is one service station attendant who was pretty confident that he'd seen Steven walking past that afternoon in the direction of home. And the police do also coordinate with local radio who broadcast an announcement about a missing boy, what he was wearing, and just a general description. The Stayners organise for their children to be left in the care of some family friends while while they search into the night. By about midnight, police are starting to treat this differently though, and they come to the Stevie's father with an accusation. They start insinuating that he has harmed Steven and that he's even killed him.

Carrie 7:37

That seems to have come out of nowhere. Yeah.

Benny 7:40

Yeah. I guess this is kind of 1972. It's sort of that period, you know, the Johnny Gosh period where people they just didn't think these things happened. There was kind of this this safety, I suppose, and they didn't really understand that these predators were out there and things, and I guess that might be the common thing is that the parents are involved or that he never went to school, or yeah, I don't know. So this infuriates Dell, and he volunteers that he'll do a polygraph test, and the police say, Yes, we would like to do one on you, but they don't actually have a machine, they need to kind of send for one from another police um department, and it'll take a few days apparently to get one. The next day, police attend the Stayners house to install a phone tap. They're thinking maybe this could be a kidnap for ransom situation, and they want to be able to record someone who's who might call with instructions, but no such call comes. Over the next few days, there's a number of locally coordinated searches. Um, hundreds of people are involved. However, on the 8th of December, the police announced that they won't be performing any further searches. So it's four days later.

Clare 8:41

That's so quick to just it's weird that again, like you said, it doesn't happen a whole lot, and it is in the early 70s, but four days? That's it.

Benny 8:52

This next bit, I guess, might help make it sense. So it it's been freezing overnight, and they've kind of looked everywhere in the in the area where they can. So they think, look, if he's if he's in the area injured, he's after four days in these temperatures, he's not alive. Um, their their view is that he's no longer in the area, it's no longer worth searching in the area. It doesn't mean they give up, they're still kind of putting out notices to police departments and they're still the case is obviously still being worked on, but just the active searches in the area they see no point anymore.

Clare 9:21

Especially because any type of trace of them, if it's been freezing and then it's just like if the ground is just re-freezing every day and with more snow and any kind of evidence or anything's gonna be so hard to find as well.

Benny 9:36

Yeah. And they I mean they don't know that a crime has occurred, really.

Clare 9:44

Yeah, true.

Benny 9:46

So the stainers essentially go through the Christmas period without Stevie. Parents Kay and Dell, by this time, are of the are of the opinion that Stevie has been abducted, and they try to stay optimistic, but it's looking less likely that whoever did did abduct him intends to release him, or you know, they're not organising a ransom. Kay, in particular, is said to have really kept the family together from here on, staying strong in front of the other children and keeping the household running. Sadly, Dell is later quoted as saying, I had a lot to do with my kids before Stevie's disappearance, but afterwards I was a hard guy to get along with. Seven years pass.

Clare 10:28

Whoa.

Benny 10:29

Yeah. It's now Valentine's Day, February 14th, 1980, in Ukaya, California. A five-year-old boy named Timothy or Timmy White is walking to school when he passes a Ford Maverick, a pickup truck, parked on the curbside. Did it just click to you? Yep. What about you, Carrie? Is it familiar?

Carrie 10:53

No.

Benny 10:54

There's a man who seems to be struggling with a tire issue of some sort, and he calls out to Timmy to ask if he can hold something for him. Timmy says, No. It's with an exclamation mark, so I can just imagine that it sounds like no. And he just keeps on walking. But a second man within the pickup then yells, get the kid, and the one outside begins running after Timmy. Timmy does run too, but he's five, obviously. He does actually manage to reach a fence, though, and he kind of holds on as hard as he can to with his arms wrapped around the fence post, like trying to, I guess, stop himself being grabbed. But the man is obviously much stronger, and he manages to pull Timmy's arms off the post and drags him, kicking and screaming, back into the vehicle. Timmy is covered with a blanket and the Maverick speeds off. He asks the two men what's going on, and they both they answer at the same time, but they give contradicting answers. So one says that Timmy's mother is sick and they're taking him to her, but at the same time the other one says that they're picking him up to take him to the dentist. So he's confused by this, he he gets a bad feeling about it, and for the rest of the trip he stays quiet. Um initially he's just too scared to ask anything else. But once the van reaches a freeway, Timmy is given a fruit juice and a sleeping pill to swallow. They only drive for about 30 minutes. Timmy is taken to a remote cabin west of Boonville. Um it's near Manchester in Mendecito County, California. The man who first ran after Timmy, his name is Sean Porman, and he's now given payment for his role in this abduction to whole bottles of Jack Daniels.

Clare 12:34

Amazing. Wow, that's really that's He could have asked before. Yeah, or at least a case. Like goodness, the risk. Wow.

Benny 12:50

Something a bit high shelf.

Clare 12:53

Also, I guess like that um the stranger danger stuff back then too. Like, I mean it's it's interesting to this one, you know. Yeah, yeah. So like it's interesting to hear like Timmy was so resistant to go with them initially, rather than, you know, like walking along by himself at five and not willing to help, kind of thing. So like it's I mean, it's obviously comes from a family who'd either prepared him for that or I it maybe it's just a personality thing. It's interest it's interesting for the time period. But yeah, two bottles of jack is two bottles of Jack in exchange for abducting a kid's pretty pretty crazy.

Benny 13:30

I'd have said three and no less. I think you're right though, like I think this is probably slight this is slightly after Johnny Gosh, and he was the one of the first milk cotton kids ever. So advertising missing kids and like the whole phenomenon was kind of unheard of, and it was only really just becoming a a thing to worry about in America.

Clare 13:49

Yeah.

Benny 13:50

The man who had remained inside the van during the kidnapping is 48-year-old Kenneth Parnell. He carries Timmy into his cabin now, where the boy is changed into different clothes. He's the ones he was wearing is discarded, and still asleep, he's put in bed.

Carrie 14:04

These guys have definitely done this before. They've got sleeping pills ready to go, extra clothes, like this is a well-oiled machine.

Benny 14:13

Yeah.

Carrie 14:14

Jack Daniels, ready to go.

Benny 14:16

Later that day at 3 p.m., Kenneth Parnell needs to go and collect his son, Dennis, who's been at school. Dennis's school bus will drop him off soon at a fairly remote bus stop, and Kenneth usually would kind of drive and meet him at this bus stop and drive him the rest of the way home. He picks up Timmy, who's still asleep, and puts him back into the Maverick to come on this drive. So Kenneth's son, a 14-year-old Dennis Parnell, is waiting at the bus stop, and he gets into the Maverick with his dad and Timmy. He sees Timmy, he sees that Timmy is sleeping, but says nothing. He doesn't need to ask who the boy is and why he's in their car. His dad has been trying to get him to be an accomplice in this kidnapping plot for months. In fact, Tim Dennis has been on several scouting drives to Ukaya specifically to monitor and learn about Timothy White.

Carrie 15:06

Well, this is the most horrendous sick father-son bonding in history.

Clare 15:13

And it goes to show how confident he is, right? Like putting Timmy back in the car. Because like on one side of things, you go, Oh, it's so that he can keep an eye on him or whatever. But it's also like this brashness of well, I've abducted a kid only a few hours ago and now I'm gonna parade him around town. Like there's something very like confident about doing something like that.

Benny 15:36

He like this is the like I mean, you abducted him on the way to school. This is the time that if school didn't notice he didn't come in, this is the time that they're now gonna notice he's missing, they're gonna this is the time when people are gonna be looking for him and panicking. So um you're right, it's a weird I mean that they're thirty minutes away, but it's it it's very bold. So they all return to the cabin together, and Timmy is again placed on the bed, still asleep. And this is a one-room cabin. There's only one bed and a very uncomfortable couch. So Timmy is placed in Dennis's bed where Dennis would normally sleep, and Dennis now gets to sleep on the couch. And he feels some jealousy towards Timmy. He's Kenneth's son, not this new boy. That's where he sleeps, not this new boy. But this is something that he's felt was coming for a while now. Ever since Dennis was kidnapped seven years earlier, on December 4th, 1972, he's been growing up. The man that he calls Dad has been less interested in him sexually, emotionally. And at fourteen years of age now, Dennis Parnell, or real name, Steven Stayner, is too old and he's being replaced.

Clare 16:44

It's so it's so heartbreaking because how what a what a um what a tough position he's in of being taken at such a young age and now watching that like it that's like a Stockholm syndrome thing, right? Of like that pain of jealousy or like knowing that this like plot to bring somebody else in and the the like Yeah.

Carrie 17:10

Yeah. So it's Stockholm syndrome, but mixed in with a father figure.

Clare 17:16

Yeah.

Carrie 17:16

Your love, your your whole way of being, your whole support system, yeah, your framework for growing up.

Benny 17:28

Now, just for simplicity, I'm gonna refer to Dennis as Steven again from now on, but he's obviously been living these past seven years under the alias Dennis Parnell. And as we know, he's been attending school. He's been free to take the bus and be out in public alone. Don't get me wrong, there's been lots of abuse as well, which we will get into a bit later. But Steven has seemingly never tried to escape this life, to identify himself as a missing kidnapped boy, or to return home to his real family in Merced.

Clare 17:58

Makes you wonder what he was told when he was taken. Like, you know how when um they took Timmy and they're in the car and they're like, Oh, your mum's sick, or we're taking you to the dentist, or like again, like setting up that um relationship with your previous life straight off the bat, of like at at five or seven, even though they're taking you away and stuff, there'd probably be an element of you going, Oh well, they know my parents, like they they knew mum goes to the dentist, or they knew that mum, like they were gonna take me to mum. Like, so that in itself, I guess, like there's an element of that of whatever Kenneth has been telling him when he was first gone about like I'm sure you'll get into that, but yeah, just makes sense.

Carrie 18:40

It's very impressionable at that age too, and you you are really open to being manipulated, um, particularly by someone who then becomes your authority figure.

Clare 18:52

Yeah.

Carrie 18:52

I can see he might think he's gonna be in trouble if he if he tells the truth, or that's true. He might think he's risking his family, or very true. Very good.

Benny 19:03

We'll certainly find out later, but I'm gonna make you wait a bit before we get into those details. But yes, yeah. On this first night in Kenneth Parnell's cabin, Timmy sleeps on the double bed with Kenneth and Steven on the couch. It's understood that no sexual abuse towards Timmy occurs on this first night. Again, we're gonna come back to that whole element later. And on the following night, Kenneth goes to work. He is employed, he works a graveyard shift at a local hotel, so he's usually gone overnight every night. Um he returns in the morning after Steven has left for school. Each morning when he finishes work at this hotel, he goes to a bar called the Samoa Club for a morning beer. So at night and first thing in the morning, Steven is responsible for watching his little brother from now onwards. And when he goes off to school, um he's instructed to give Timmy a night old sleeping tablet just before he leaves.

Carrie 19:58

Oh gross. So he's certainly graduated to being an accomplice through his trial.

Benny 20:05

I guess he's doing what he's told. He doesn't want to do it, but he's doing it just makes it more heartbreaking. Now there is a landline phone in the cabin, but Parnell keeps it locked up. So even if he did wake up before Parnell got home from work, Timmy would be unable to access it. From the time Timmy is abducted, Steven begins to miss a lot of school. He'll go in in the morning, but he'll leave at kind of lunchtime and go back to the cabin. And the reason that he does this is because he's afraid that Kenneth will be alone with Timmy and will sexually abuse him. So, you know, because he works Kenneth works nights, he doesn't want them to be home alone together. Eleven days after Timmy's abduction, Panel returns home one day with a box of hair dye. Timmy is like a very blonde kid, and this is to make Timmy's hair look dark and unrecognizable. And once it's applied, he takes the boys out to Pirate's Cove, which is a nearby hamburger bar and grill. So bold, isn't it?

Carrie 20:59

So bold. I hope he did a better dye job than Gone Girl. Shocking.

Clare 21:05

Absolutely shocking. And also, what about when she becomes blonde again? Like the implication that like she didn't leave that cabin and she got that tone herself.

Benny 21:15

With a home kid.

Clare 21:16

Give us a fucking break. Give us a fucking break. Um it it's it's it's so rushing it's poor Steven, like there's just there must be just the most conflicting feelings because he's now no longer just protecting himself or doing what he has to do to keep himself safe. He's now risking his own safety to ensure that Timmy is okay, but also not helping like not trying to get away again. Like you said, like they're just going out in public and it just says so much about, I guess, like the that that positioning that Kenneth has done about who he is to Steven. It's um it's a really tricky

Carrie 22:00

But also he's now caring for and making sure someone doesn't escape who he's c who he's jealous of, who's taking his place.

Benny 22:19

Is it to protect Timmy or is it a jealousy thing? Is it you know? Yeah, how much of this is the indoctrinated jealousy that he's feeling versus a real real need to protect Timmy? Yeah, yeah. Does he not want him to be sexually assaulted because he doesn't want to be replaced?

Clare 22:37

Because do we know, like obviously Kenneth has been trying to get Steven involved in the plot before they took Timmy and they'd been pl he'd been planning it for months and stuff like that. But had he do we know if he'd said anything to Steven around like, if you don't help me, you are gonna be replaced, or like had he kind of outwardly told him that like essentially this is like you're you've aged out, I don't need you anymore. Do you know what I mean?

Benny 23:05

Like he had sort of implied that you're getting too old for me now, so yeah, there is that kind of that you're being replaced, then maybe not in those words. Um I'm not sure if there was any kind of threat towards him, mate or anything like that about helping him, but That's just sickening. Yeah, yeah. It's now Saturday, March 1st, 1980. Timmy has been in the custody of Parnell for sixteen days. Parnell has slept all morning and day after his night shift, and he wakes up at sundown that evening and gets ready for work again after he gets in his pickup truck and disappears down the road. Steven makes himself and Timmy dinner and they eat together. When they're finished, Steven tells Timmy to put on his coat to dress for cold weather, and Stevie takes a pocket knife as as he dresses. Together the two boys leave the cabin. Steven's plan is to return Timmy to his family, but as for himself, he's not sure what he'll do. They walk together down the dark road, and Steven is terrified that somehow Parnell is gonna circle back, that you know, that he's gonna find out they've left the cabin. Timmy begins to complain, he's crying and saying that he's cold and wet and he wants to go back to the cabin, but Steven makes him keep on walking. After they're about a quarter mile down the road, they see headlights approaching from behind them, and as it gets nearer, Steven sticks out his thumb. It's not Pinel's car, it's a Volkswagen. The very first car that they try to flag down pulls over. And it's a Mexican national. He speaks very little English, but the two of them can commun communicate enough to know that they are both heading for UK. When they arrive in town, Timmy pipes up that they are near his babysitter's house. So Steven asks asks that he and Timmy be let out there, and Timmy helps guide them to a house that he's apparently familiar with. They knock on the door for a while and there's no answer. That's amazing. Like five years old, I don't think I can recognise or navigate anywhere.

Clare 25:10

So maybe depending, I guess, on the size of the town, maybe maybe that was pretty common to know where to go.

Carrie 25:17

I'll tell you right now, would not happen nowadays. That might be okay, it might fly in the 70s, but no one's letting their five-year-old walk to school alone. No way. In the 2020s. Oh no.

Benny 25:28

And if it's near your house, if it's something you walk past regularly or whatever, then I can understand it, but this isn't so like I'd I'm surprised that's a different part of town that he would usually have to drive to or something with his parents that he kind of knows his way around there. So either way, they knock on this door and there's no answer.

Carrie 25:44

Which feels like a moment in a movie where you're like, yay, they're gonna get saved.

Benny 25:49

Yeah.

Carrie 25:49

And then everything, the knocking, the endless knocking, I can just see it in my mind.

Benny 25:55

Well, there is a movie of this, we'll get into that. There is a mini-series. Timmy says that he lives south of where the boys are, uh south of where they are, so the boys walk the quiet streets together for a while, hoping to find something that's recognizable to Timmy. But after a while it's clear that he's lost. They continue wandering for a while, and by absolute chance they find themselves briefly passing the Palace Hotel, the very place where Parnell is currently working.

Clare 26:24

No dear stop.

Benny 26:26

He believed the luck. Now, by some miracle, Parnell doesn't see them out on the street. It's two late nights, two young boys walking alone, literally passing the corner of the property, it's and and he's a security guard working there. It's very lucky that you know.

Clare 26:41

He has some he has so much confidence too, so like it would never even cross his mind that they would try and get away.

Benny 26:47

True, yeah, yeah, yeah. So Panel doesn't see them on the street, but Steven is kind of spooked by this, and just there's more of an urgency to get off the streets as soon as possible. So they change plans, they're not looking for Timmy's house anymore. Um, his five, he doesn't know where he is. Yeah.

Carrie 27:02

When you're like, oh, they lost. I'm like, yeah, his five.

Clare 27:06

It's it's actually sort of crazy. It's crazy that after after a while, once they realise that they don't know where they're going, they don't start looking for a police station.

Benny 27:17

Well, that's exactly what they're about to do. Yeah. Oh, well, sorry, but they do, yeah, they're not going to say that. Yeah. No, no, no. No, because you're right. It's I mean, so they look for a phone booth and they look through the local the directory in the phone book to look for the address of the police station and kind of a a map. So that's yeah, that's their new plan. They do find one close by and they make their way there. At the police station, Steven tells Timmy to go in alone. He says, Go in and tell the first police officer you see your name, and he will take you home safely.

Carrie 27:48

He wants to go back, he wants to go back to Kenneth.

Clare 27:53

But how does he go back? How does he go back with t without Timmy though?

Carrie 27:58

You just say he escaped, I was asleep.

Benny 28:03

He watches Timmy wander in. Timmy's nervous, he opens the front door to go inside and does briefly step in. He sees a police officer, but then he leaves the building and returns to Steven. By tremendous luck, this police officer does see the boy briefly step in, wandering in alone at this time of night, and it's obviously very unusual, let alone a five-year-old boy. So he kind of discreetly follows Timmy back out, and he sees another boy lurking at a distance, and he sees Timmy go up and approach this boy. And afraid that he knows that something suspicious is going on here, it's unusual. But he's afraid that if he kind of takes chase after these boys that they're gonna run away. So he kind of waits and he calls on the news radio for backup for and basically there's another police car just on its way towards the police station now, anyway. So once he's confident that they're kind of covered on both sides, he then approaches the two boys. Timmy is recognized instantly, even with his dark hair. He's obviously very fresh local news, he's everywhere at the moment.

Clare 29:02

Fresh box dyed hair, too, stands out like a sore thumb. No, but none it never looks natural, so it would have been especially on a child year old. Yeah. Yeah.

Benny 29:13

He's probably got the stains running down the hairline running down the cheeks.

Clare 29:18

I was thinking of the episode of The Office when it's about ageism, and then Creed comes in and he's got like the jet black kind of like boot polished hair.

Benny 29:26

So every every police officer would be familiar with Timmy, um, probably even carrying a picture of him, to be honest. Like they've probably all got like something on hand, so like they're they're all looking for him actively. Now they turn to Steven and ask who he is, and he gives them his real name, Steven.

Clare 29:41

Oh wow.

Benny 29:42

They seem to it takes a while, but I think they start to register who that this might be the missing boy from Merced as well. I guess they're putting them the missing boys together in the connection. Now they take the boys inside, they separate them, and Steven is and while Steven is questioned, Timmy's parents are phoned. Timmy's parents are asleep when they receive a call from police saying that there's a boy who's been found, that he's going by their son's name, and he matches the description. And Timmy it's kind of an amusing story, Timmy's mum is the one who takes the call, and she's kind of frantically relaying this to her husband as she's getting dressed and like throwing on clothes. And he's listening, but like they've just woken up, and I guess he's understandably thinking, like, has she just dreamed this or has she in her delirious state wished that that's what she heard? Um so he actually phones the police back just to make sure that his wife got the right the right message, that they're not getting their hopes up, isn't that all?

Carrie 30:36

Believe women. Believe women.

Benny 30:43

So they race to the police station and they're pointed towards a room as soon as they get there. And when they enter, they see a boy and their hearts sink. Mrs. White says, This is not her son. What she's convinced to take another look. She's told, you know, this boy's hair has been dyed. He's grubby, he's fidgeting in a strange way that she's never seen her son do before, and it takes a few moments for her to realise that this is really Timmy and she does have him back.

Carrie 31:09

Okay. Maybe you shouldn't believe her. She seems unreliable. Take it back.

Clare 31:16

That's crazy. Like he was gone for what, sixteen days?

Benny 31:21

Yeah, yeah.

Clare 31:22

Like uh, he's in different clothes, he's grubbies, but his behaviour seems different.

Benny 31:27

But I think part of it is her psychological this is too good to be true as well, I think.

Carrie 31:30

Like that's very true.

Benny 31:32

Getting her getting her hopes up as a few years.

Carrie 31:33

That's a very generous take, Ben. Yeah, you're being very generous, Ben. I'm like, how do you not know you're a child?

Benny 31:39

She's a bit a bit dim trauma. Meanwhile, in another room, Steven's on edge and going through some very complex emotional struggles. For starters, he's worried that he's going to be seen as complicit in Timmy's abduction, and that kind of makes him guarded with the police. But secondly, he's reluctant to say where he's been and who his quote dad is. Kenneth Parnell is to him, the man that's raised him and the man that he considers dad or has considered dad for the last seven years. And he feels some guilt about turning Kenneth in.

Carrie 32:11

Well, look at Elizabeth Smart. I mean, they had her in the police station, and she was like, no, no, no. Because you're traumatized. You of course it'd be terrifying. I'm proud of him.

Clare 32:23

Mm-hmm.

Benny 32:25

After a lot of convincing and building trust, the police manage to get a name and place of employment for Kenneth Parnell, and they soon after arrest him at the hotel without incident. Steven is forced to face Kenneth in person in the same room and confirm that this is the right man.

Clare 32:43

Oh my god.

Benny 32:44

Isn't that awful?

Clare 32:46

Because he's still a minor, right? Like he's in what did we say, 14? How is that the 80s, man? Jesus.

Benny 32:57

Yeah, and the way he tells, like the way he tells the story is that he I he did it in a way, like maybe it was the through one-way mirror or something. I don't know. He kind of identified Parnell from a distance to yes, that's the right man, but the police officer kind of shoved him closer and said, like, and forced him to kind of be in his personal space and make sure, like That's insane. Yeah. That sends Steven into massive distress, but um he confirms that they've got the right man. Steven's real parents, Del and Kay Steiner, also receive a call from the police soon after, saying that they have some news about their son and they'll be arriving soon to deliver it in person. Now they think the worst, but they don't think the news is about Steven. They think the news is about Steven's older brother Carrie, who's currently on a camping trip with friends in the Yosemite National Park. So they think something dreadful has happened to Kerry, but obviously soon learn that Steven has been found alive.

Clare 33:49

It'd be so hard in these in these scenarios. Like seven years is such a long time, and there's I imagine a point where you almost, just for your own sanity, have to say we have to accept that they're gone. We've grieved home at the same yeah, like you've You've clock closure somehow. Yeah. Like it must be such an a hard, hard scenario to be because you the like the odds of seven years later finding them alive is so rare.

Benny 34:22

Yeah, I don't remember seeing anything about like the where they were in terms of hope and things like that. As I mentioned, like Kay was the mother was very um strong, um like stonefaced in terms of like keeping the the family going and not showing the emotion to the kids. So I can imagine her probably being a bit more optimistic. Whereas Dell he openly admits that he gave up on life really and was just miserable. So I I imagine he had come to the conclusion that Steven wasn't coming back.

Clare 34:51

That's my take. Just like a Dell computer, boxy and lifeless.

Benny 34:59

That takes me back to um Jan uh Janelle Potter. I bet you was Adele. Oh my god, yes. Betrip was a Dell. That's so true. So funny.

Clare 35:11

Nice throwback for our OG fans.

Benny 35:15

It's one of my favourite episodes still, to be honest. One of my ones I've done, I mean.

Clare 35:20

Me too. I love that one.

Benny 35:21

Oh, good. Steven remains with the police for about 24 hours before he's finally released. They've obviously got a lot of questions for him and a lot of statements to take and things like that, and um, I'm sure there's breaks and things like that in it as well. But um, when he's released, he returns home to Merced. His siblings have made a banner over the front entrance, welcoming him home. Del and Kay have notified their friends and family and neighbours, like um, and Del actually recounts that him going to one neighbour, like a friend's house, and saying that his missing Steven has been found and he's coming home. And the friend tells him, Now you can start living again, Del.

Clare 35:58

Oh, this is perfect for a movie. It is, it is, but it's also like I mean, we've just advanced so much in terms of like the like what mental illness and what trauma does to a person, like the idea of like him just going through all of this, and it's like, yeah, just go home with your parents and your siblings to the house that you haven't seen in seven years. Yeah, you'll be fine. Like it's crazy to think that he would just like just climatize back to that and just be old to be able to do it.

Carrie 36:29

And too, that they will just yeah, oh you can be happy now, like like that didn't occur.

Clare 36:35

It's over, yeah, like that life's over. Yeah, crazy.

Benny 36:39

Absolutely about to get into that. So this now you can start living again. Del this is like an emotion that he shares himself, so just like the weight and the distance that he's felt from his family. He he describes this as just instantly dropping away, like all this kind of darkness just is gone immediately and he feels alive again. When he returns, Del and Kay hug him for about 15 minutes nonstop. His older brother Carrie, so he's the one who's off camping, remember, he's driving home from his camping trip in the Yosemite when he hears the news on the radio that his brother has been found alive and well, and he recalls he almost drove off an embankment in shock.

Carrie 37:18

Did his mum recognize him? Uh yeah, seven years did he recognise him?

Benny 37:24

I don't know. D you know what I don't know what they what their reaction to his physical appearance was. I I didn't read anything about how they felt about his behaviour, they're gonna certainly notice as ch like is kind of hard to adapt to, but I don't know how they felt about his appearance. Now Steven remembers his siblings, but not all of their names, which I found quite interesting. Being seven when it, you know, with old with two older and one younger siblings, he kind of remembers them, but he doesn't remember their names.

Clare 37:50

I wonder if there's like an element of like when you've been taken like that, that you basically like freeze out your former life where you're like, well, that's gone now. And especially because he was Yeah, and especially because he was for all intents and purposes, had built a whole new life. Like he was at a school, he had a new name, he had a dad, like so it's not just that he was sitting in a room with all of his time thinking about his whole life. Like, I wonder if there's an element of that of like that felt like a dream, if that makes sense.

Benny 38:21

Like Absolutely, yeah. I think he I think there was some element of like compartmentalizing going on there where he's kind of block blocking certain things out, I think.

Clare 38:29

Totally.

Benny 38:30

In fact, he's not even sure of his own name. So Steven has provided the police with a written statement to back up what he's told them, and it starts as follows My name is Steven Stayner, and he spells Stayner incorrectly. I'm 14 years of age, I don't know my true birth date, but I use April 18, 1965. I know my first name is Steven, I'm pretty sure my last name is Stayner, and if I have a middle name, I don't know it. So I think you're right. I think there's um to to to be confident of your your own name or you know, I think I think there's some element of blocking going on there.

Carrie 39:07

Your brain would have to do that to help you survive.

Benny 39:11

Yeah, yeah.

Clare 39:12

I wonder as well if like the from the second that he was with Kenneth, if Kenneth was like, That's not your name now, your name is now this, I'm gonna call you this, no one's ever gonna call you Steven again, like instantly kind of almost like kills that identity away for him. Yeah and at seven, I guess you're so impressionable at seven still, so I guess you just accept that, maybe.

Benny 39:35

So the statement itself continues for about two and a half pages, and in it he he he also wrote, quote, getting back to Ken Parnell, I call him dad. He has never molested me sexually, he had never been mean to me, and he never said why he stole me or why he stole Timmy. He's been like a father to me and has always sent me to school. End quote.

Clare 39:56

Wait, so he was not sexually assaulted by him? He definitely would have been.

Carrie 40:02

He he'd be covering up for him, for sure.

Clare 40:04

Yeah. Because I guess if he's your f if he's the father figure, he he must be really conflicted about him getting in trouble at this point.

Benny 40:12

So in the 1970s and eighties, the subject of male sexual abuse was incredibly misunderstood and taboo. The public and legal systems in the US at the time widely believed that men couldn't be raped and assumed that male victimization was impossible. Um, like you know, the that if it happened, the victim was complicit. There's the masculinity aspect, there's the belief that males should be strong enough to resist an assault, and if they are assaulted, then their masculinity comes into question. There's the physiological aspect, and that is the myth that if a male is erect or receives physical pleasure during an assault, then that means he's consented and benefited from it. And in the case of childhood male abuse, there's also the widespread acceptance that these boys were not really victims at all, and the experience was somehow beneficial, educational, or inconsequential. So that's kind of the attitudes towards an end of the day.

Clare 41:05

Oh my god, that's so heartbreaking. That's so heartbreaking. Those poor kids.

Carrie 41:10

I don't feel like we've come that far from that. I don't know. Maybe that's controversial, but I don't really sadly I think there's a long way to go.

Benny 41:20

Yeah, I think you're right, actually. I think we'd like to say we have, but when you think about it, like yeah, I think you're right. I don't know that it's any easier for men to to talk about these things. Um there is of course also the homophobia and the attitude towards the Le Jepitequa community. So that's the idea that like male-on-male assault is a gay issue, and that the implication is that if it happens, then it's because you're gay, or you know. So it's likely for these reasons and many more that we'll never truly understand that Steven denies the sexual assault initially to police. And once it is admitted, it's rarely, if ever, talked about or acknowledged again. The media firestorm surrounding Steven's reappearance won't acknowledge it at all. It's kind of just centered on the kidnapping and where's he been all this time?

Clare 42:04

Crazy.

Benny 42:05

Now reunited with his parents and family. It's something they don't ever ask about or talk about. And Steven's sister Cindy will later recall, quote, I've never talked to Steve about that. During the trials, people would ask me questions, and I had to tell them I don't really know. I never really talked to him. No one talked about it. Our parents wouldn't talk about it.

Clare 42:26

Wow, so he's been through the so like pretty much exactly what we described of like, come home and you know, just like, you know, go and get some sun, eat a banana, you'll be fine. You're back home with your siblings, like life is good now. Wow, that's so difficult.

Carrie 42:42

That's really challenging for the family to them to cope with that. I mean, in reality, today I would like to think the entire family would be having counselling talking about it openly together.

Clare 42:59

Even just the dynamics from a sibling perspective, like he's been gone all these years. So as a group of four siblings, you've like the pecking order's changed and and how you've grown up, and and particularly that kind of like um shift from childhood into into teenhood, like so much has changed, and so adding him back in there and like that, like they still have those like nostalgic memories of him as a child of going, oh well, he was like this and his personality's like this. So even trying to find a balance as a sibling group, I I I that would be a very good thing.

Carrie 43:44

I I also think they would have grown up underneath the cloud of his disappearance. That would change who they were as people. And in their formative years, how would how would they have coped? How would that make them different?

Clare 43:58

Very true.

Benny 44:00

Have a section on it later, but I'll just put it now anyway, just because it's so relevant. But um yeah, the family really struggle to with that whole concept of like seeing Steven as not just that seven-year-old boy, like they they really struggle with accepting that this new boy who kind of behaves differently and has all sorts of other issues, um, they struggle with how to treat him because in their minds he's frozen as that seven-year-old boy, and they're continuing on from who who they knew back then, which kind of feeds into it. But they also deny him going to any sort of psychological therapy, any counselling.

Clare 44:31

Wow, again, like early 80s. So I mean again, like such a stigma around s seeking mental health support and things like that. That's that's something that you didn't do.

Carrie 44:44

It's um intensely damaging for for him and for the entire family. Must hinder his recovery.

Benny 44:54

I'll now briefly jump back to the actual abduction of Steven himself, okay? Um, back in 1972. So, in similar circumstances to Timothy's abduction, Steven was walking past a parked vehicle on his way home from school. In it were two men, Kenneth and another man, Irvin Edward Murphy. So this is a different guy to the one who was involved in the first in Timothy's. Murphy and Parnell had worked together in the past, and Murphy was said to be a very simple-minded person. Parnell is said to have convinced him that he wants to become um a minister, and that he wanted a boy to raise with religious values. Oh my god. So Steven passed this vehicle, and the two men told him that they were collecting unwanted clothing for the church, and asked if his parents might be interested in donating. Now, the Stayners, as I mentioned, were devout Mormons, so maybe this is kind of something that helped build an element of trust or something, you know, someone from a religious community. Um, and he agreed to get into their car, they would take him the rest of the way home and ask his parents for any unwanted clothing.

Clare 46:00

And if you are from a a religious community as well, because like um if they're such a big um family and they're raised in the Mormon faith, I believe, and I could be getting this wrong, but I'm pretty sure that Mormonism is also very community-based. So so at a request like that probably would have been not totally out of the ordinary, like to to have somebody to do like a drive or give your clothes away or Yeah.

Benny 46:25

And that's actually there's a book about this which is my main source, and um the subtitle, you know how they put like a bit of a slogan on the front of the cover? It says Steven was taught to respect and trust his elders and it nearly got him killed. So it's kind of I think you're right, I think that element of the community he was raised in and kind of probably did, and the fact he was so new to town and living in around, you know, so close with neighbours, and I I think the maybe he wasn't as street wise, maybe, or as um equipped for it as, say, Timmy was.

Clare 46:55

And you're also um like raised to respect the people who work or run the church too. So if they've positioned themselves as they're doing something on behalf of the church, even if he didn't want to, there was probably an element of like, oh well, I have to because it's the church.

Benny 47:14

They drive past the turn off, of course, and to the cabin. That afternoon Steven was told that he's going to spend the night there in the cabin with these men, and they staged a fake call to the Stayner household asking permission for Steven to stay over. The following day they did the same thing for the second night sleepover, but on the third day, Steven was told that this had all been a ruse, that his parents didn't actually want him. They'd arranged for Parnell to adopt him permanently. A judge had approved it, and he was now Steven's dad. And Steven reluctantly believed this.

Carrie 48:01

And I guess he's not saying that they're trying to find him, so no one's come to get him. So this must be true.

Benny 48:10

Yeah, yeah. And why he's so willing to maybe forget their names and to uh take on this new persona and yeah.

Carrie 48:17

And block out that past.

Benny 48:20

Exactly. Now, one of the most fascinating aspects of this case to me is the freedoms that Steven was afforded during the seven years he was missing. He wasn't chained up in a basement whilst Kenneth went to work. He wasn't kept alone and isolated for all these years. At the time of Steven's abduction, December of 1972, Parnell was starting a new job at a holiday inn, so he wasn't going to be home all day, every day. Which is why on the 2nd of January 1973, just one month after the abduction, he enrolled Steven in second grade at Steele Lane Elementary School, Santa Rosa.

Clare 48:56

Wow.

Benny 48:57

So bold.

Clare 48:59

So bold and so bold.

Carrie 49:04

But he believes this is his new dad who's looking out for his education. He's he fully believes that he's been manipulated.

Benny 49:11

And he's kind of set up with like Parnell kind of gives him a bit of like Parnell family history. Like he kind of gives him some, I guess, facts and things to use to kind of start indoctrinating him as well, like into, I guess, prepare him for questions that people might ask him. So the forms used to enroll Steven in school had this new identity, Dennis Parnell, and birth date on them, and uh the name of a real school that this Dennis had supposedly previously attended. These enrolment forms were later to track were later tracked down by police, and some school administrator had written on the back of them, still Lane did not receive any record any records from former school. So without obtaining a copy of a birth certificate or following up with the previous school to obtain Steven's records, the school kind of just accepted him in for new enrollment in the new year. Um so we're still in California here. This is a school that would be aware of Steven's disappearance. And in fact, the Bellevue Union School District Office, and this is the district office that kind of still Lane Elementary sits into, fits into, received a stack of missing juvenile bulletins about Steven's disappearance, including his photo and an and an accompanying letter from Delan K. Stayner. It read, Would you please distribute the enclosed bulletins to all primary schools in your district? Hopefully we are sending through enough. If not, please let us know. It also read, Steven may not be in school, but a child may have seen or heard of Steven in his neighbourhood. We must cover any and all possibilities.

Clare 50:40

Wow.

Benny 50:41

Steel Lane and other schools within the district confirmed to the Stayners that they never received the bulletins. They were thrown out by the district office.

Clare 50:57

Potentially.

Benny 50:58

And I think even even still, I think it's it's kind of easy to put blame on Steel Lane Elementary, who, regardless, would be aware of the media hype surrounding this missing boy just three hours away, you know. Um so this school basically gave Dennis Parnell the foot in the door to get Steven back into the schooling system. And over the next seven years, Steven moved around a number of times. In fact, he went through about half a dozen different schools uh following Kenneth Kenneth's employment around. He formed relationships, he would play outside, he would stay over at friends' houses and be around other adults. And as I mentioned, Steven did reluctantly believe that he had been adopted by Kenneth Parnell. He'd been told that a judge had ordered it. But in his early teens he'd begun to question this, or maybe was beginning to allow himself to process the truth. But growing up, Parnell never talked about the abduction or the adoption. They never talked about his real parents or siblings or the method or the sorry the um uh circumstances under which he was picked up.

Clare 51:55

That's so sad. Because if you're if you're under the impression of like your parents gave you away and we're not going to talk about your previous life, it's not surprising that at 14 he doesn't have vivid memories of it, because he probably has just boxed those away of like mentally.

Benny 52:12

So he'd never totally forgotten his family. He did he said he did think about them regularly, but I guess in a way he felt that he was being given a pretty good life with Pinel. He was fed and given personal freedoms. He liked to be alone with his thoughts, and he was given space by Pinell. And maybe that's something he didn't have with the Stayners, you know, with so many kids and things, maybe he kind of did appreciate kind of for being a bit more, maybe being the the focus and having time to yourself. He was also given extravagant and expensive presents for Christmas and birthdays, like he was given a $300 bike, and this is 1970s, remember. Um, Levi's jeans, sneakers, brand-made clothes. Um he was even bought a dog, he had a pet dog.

Carrie 52:53

It's part of what makes this kind of grooming and abuse so horrific is that part of it would feel great, part of it would be comforting and fun, and then you'd have that guilt and shame that's tied to that feeling.

Clare 53:08

And so any kind of like pushback or what he did with Timmy of like leaving, it's such a almost like a betrayal, right? Where you've been given all this freedom, freedom in advertent commas, and this like um independence from your dad, and you get all of these things. So, to your point, Ben, about like he's gives the impression that he's led a good life with under Kenneth, which again just talks to that grooming that you're talking about, Carrie.

Benny 53:36

Yeah. And there is the like obviously the sexual assault component is still going on at the same time, but he just accepted I mean, this is his words, he's he kind of just accepted that this was a normal thing that happened, and he kind of just assumed that, oh look, I was naive, but like they hadn't told me about that before. My dad never told me about that, but this is just something that happens. So he kind of just he never really saw what was happening to him as abuse that he needed to run away from. He thought this was a normal thing that he just would have been naive in his uh in his younger years about.

Carrie 54:04

Incredibly insidious, isn't it? Yeah, that's so sad.

Benny 54:09

Uh people who knew the um that you knew Parnell and Steven and Dennis, sorry, um, said that they appeared to have a close bond, like they were quite um they, you know, they were always together, they seemed comfortable, they would seem quite affectionate and things like that, they seemed to have a good relations, father-son relationship from the outside. There is a few paragraphs in a book titled, and this is the book I've used as the as the primary source for this uh for this case, a book titled I Know My First Name is Steven by Mike Eccles, that perhaps explains this emotional conflict best, and that's because it comes from Steven himself. Steven collaborated with Eccles on this book, so I'll read this bit in full. Quote Steve characterized his relationship with Kenneth Parnell as a genuine love-hate relationship, one which he has never been able to fully resolve in his own mind, and one which he never felt comfortable talking about with his parents. One summer night in 1984, Steve tried to bring this up with his parents at the kitchen table, and ended by telling Del and Kay that he wanted to go to Soledad prison to talk with Ken. Del and Kay didn't even respond, they just stared off into space. Then when they did begin to talk again, they pointedly ignored their son's statement as if it was never made. In the same book, Steven is asked what he would say to Parnell if he saw him. Steven answers, quote, I spent seven years with him. He treated me well, he looked after me. I thank him for keeping me alive. I am grateful for that.

Clare 55:32

Wow. It must be really drif difficult too, right? Because by like you were saying, by all accounts, his relationship with Kenneth, they were really close. They'd spent all this time together and stuff like that. And then now he's back with his actual parents and they're ignoring him and like not listening to what his needs are or expecting him to be something that he's not, whereas it sounds like he kind of just got to be whoever he wanted to be with Kenneth. And that's again, like that's all part of the grooming process, right? Of but like it must be just such a tricky, complex space for Steven to sit in to watch his parents now not listen to his wishes or not be willing to acknowledge what happened to him.

Carrie 56:18

It's easy, I think, for us to judge the parents and think, well, they should have been more emotionally intelligent, they should have been more well equipped. But I think it's a pretty high standard to think they would be able to talk about this man in a positive light who took their son, who caused their family so much pain, who they know abused their son for years and years. I can see it from both sides. My heart breaks for him that he didn't get that support. But I can understand why it would be intensely hurtful and hard for them to acknowledge this man or want to have anything about this man in their lives.

Clare 56:59

That's so true. And even them being able to reconcile, like we were saying earlier, about like the son that's returned is not the sun that they've been immortalising for X amount of years. So there's an element for them too of like this is just such a heartbreaking, like that ripple effect of this to everybody in his in Steven's family. It's yeah, it's heartbreaking.

Carrie 57:23

Do you think it's a religio a religious element too? I don't know much about Mormonism, but do they talk much about sexuality? Is it quite a taboo topic within Mormonism? Yeah. So there could be that element too that they don't talk about that in general.

Benny 57:41

It's the protective undergarments. You know it's in the book of Mormon, you know.

Carrie 57:45

I do know about the special undies. But do you think, yeah, like they're not going to talk about sexuality in any context, let alone this painful difficult context.

Clare 57:57

Very good point.

Benny 57:58

So Steven has just said, I thanked I thank you for keeping me alive. I'm grateful for that. There is evidence that Kenneth Parnell was perhaps days away from murdering Steven Stayner. Parnell had, in the days leading up to kidnapping Timothy, paid two of Steven's friends to dig a deep hole, and it is believed that this was to dispose of Steven once the new boy had arrived and settled in.

Carrie 58:22

He had a younger replacement. Even this even this man doesn't love him.

Clare 58:29

Yeah. Oh man.

Benny 58:35

Now for the trial of Kenneth Parnell, a woefully inadequate legal system is in place when the trial begins in 1981. The statute of limitations for sexual assault on a child is at this time just three years. Wow. Meaning Kenneth could only be prosecuted for any abuse that took place between 1977 and 1980 when he was released, not the first five years endured by Steven. Oh wow, that's there's so many shocking elements of this case, and that might be Furthermore, even with an estimated 87 counts of assault in that period, it was going to be difficult to investigate and highly traumatic for Steven. Reflecting later, prosecutor Joe Allen says of it, quote, prosecuting him would have been would have been a reasonable decision, except after that con after considerable meditation on the subject, I decided that balancing the harm I thought it would do to Steve, it was not right. In retrospect, maybe Steve was stronger than I thought he was, and maybe from the standpoint of public safety, it should have been done. But it is an issue that I've never been quiet about in my mind, because the value of taking Parnell off the streets forever is so obvious. The statute of limitations for kidnapping is also three years, meaning it could not be prosecuted after December of nineteen seventy-five.

Clare 59:56

That's insane.

Benny 59:57

Thankfully, however, the prosecution successfully argue to a judge that the duration of the kidnapping event is as long as Kenneth Parnell had him in his custody. In other words, the statute of limitations doesn't apply from the when Steven was abducted, it applies from when Steven had escaped. So the judge approves that going ahead, but that was what the law was was at the time. They had to argue that. Following a trial that lasts only two weeks, Kenneth Parnell is found guilty of kidnapping in the second degree for both Steven Stayner and Timothy White. And I had to ad I admit I didn't know what in the second degree meant in terms of kidnapping. Um, and it does vary state by state in the US, but essentially it means a kidnapping that lacks the aggravating factors such as ransom sexual assault or serious injury. So because they're not pursuing any sexual assault charges, it's second-degree kidnapping, but it wouldn't be first.

Carrie 1:00:53

Should have been first. Should have been first.

Benny 1:00:56

With a prior conviction considered, Kenneth Parnell is given the maximum allowable sentence under Californian law being seven years.

Carrie 1:01:07

Seven years jaws on the floor. He's gonna get out and do this again.

Clare 1:01:13

That's terrible. Wild, isn't it? Was he was he charged with kidnapping of Timothy as well? Like is so that seven years is for both of them. Is that right?

Benny 1:01:27

I believe it I believe they're concurrent sentences. So I think yeah, I think they maybe got the same sentence for both, but because they're concurrent sentences, I think it's seven years is what he got. That's the maximum that the law allowed. That's um that's so heartbreaking. Yeah.

Clare 1:01:43

It's infuriating.

Benny 1:01:44

Edward Murphy, who assisted in the initial abduction of Steven, was sentenced to five years, but was later paroled after serving only two. Sean Porman, who assisted in the initial abduction of Timothy White, he was only fourteen years old himself and was therefore sentenced to a term in a juvenile work camp.

Carrie 1:02:03

That makes a lot more sense when you think about the Jack Daniels that he's only fourteen.

Benny 1:02:07

Yeah.

Carrie 1:02:08

That does make way more sense. And that he did it for like his brain isn't developed enough to know that that's a really dumb decision.

Benny 1:02:16

Yeah, they both, I mean, that I didn't hear much about Sean Pullman, but the other one was um like a simpleton, basically, is kind of how they were described. So I think easily easily convinced, easily um persuaded to do these things, which is obviously why Parnell chose them. Now there's so much more to the kidnapping itself that the case that I I didn't go into all the details here, but there's just a few kind of quick elements that I didn't know really where to put them in. I didn't want to get bogged down in detail, but these are kind of points that I think are really interesting or important. Firstly, prior to abducting Steven, Parnell was already a sex offender with a criminal record. In 1951, he'd used a fake sheriff's badge to impersonate a police officer and raped a young boy. And for that he's got four years in prison.

Carrie 1:02:59

I'm not shocked at all that he has prior history. Not at all. And look, with this amount of years, he'll probably have future history like future offences too.

Benny 1:03:10

I'm gonna make a pessimistic guess here, and I bet that the four years he got in prison was more so because he impersonated a police officer and not so much about the sexual assaults. Were you about to say the same thing?

Clare 1:03:20

I was just about to say the same thing. Yeah.

Benny 1:03:23

Seven years for Steven for Steven, but three years for this boy. Like it's um I'm guessing that there was a lot of weight to that police badge. So, secondly, Panell sexually abused multiple other boys during the time Steven was with him, including friends of Stevens and the sons of his own friends. At least one of these victims that I know of reported the abuse immediately to his parents, but it seems that it either wasn't taken seriously or it wasn't formally reported. And as I dim as I mentioned, Panell did move around quite regularly with jobs and schools, and I suspect this is probably why. And lastly, other adults were aware of Parnell's abuse of Steven, if not the kidnapping itself. Parnell actually had a brief relationship with a woman named Barbara, who moved in with Parnell and Steven, and together they would both occasionally have sex and rape nine-year-old Steven.

Carrie 1:04:13

Did anything happen to her? Any consequences?

Benny 1:04:17

No, so because the sexual assault charges were never really investigated or prosecuted against Parnell, Barbara was never charged, however, she did cooperate with police during Kenneth Parnell's trial. In the years following his return, Steven Stayner struggles to reintegrate fully into his former life. His parents say the same. They're kind of torn between treating Steven as this seven-year-old boy that he is in their mind still, and the fourteen-year-old adolescent that he is now. Steven likes his independence, he doesn't like to be controlled or told what to do. He's not used to the rigid structure of life in the Stayner household. This is perhaps made all the more difficult because Dell and Kay Stayner are strongly opposed to Steven receiving counselling for his ordeal. And this might seem cruel, but again, it kind of has a lot to do with the stigma that seeking mental health had at the time. Many who know him believe that Steven's behaviour and struggles are adjusting are the result of him being removed from a religious moral upbringing and not to do with the trauma that he's received. So it's kind of like you didn't have church in your life, and therefore that's that's why you'll be having these behavioural issues now. Yeah.

Carrie 1:05:28

Wow. No words. No words for that.

Benny 1:05:31

Initially, Steven does continue with his schooling in Merced. However, with rumors circulating about his sexual abuse, he's often called gay and does struggle to make male friends. He's often absent and ultimately drops out of school without finishing. He moves into a trailer home with a cousin for a while, works a number of different jobs, including as a landscaper, he works at a meatpacking plant and a management position at a pizza hut. In nineteen eighty five, he marries a woman named Jodie Lynn Edmondson. In the same year, 1985, Kenneth Parnell is paroled, having reserved five years of his sentence.

Carrie 1:06:09

I can't even imagine that. Is he gonna seek him out and try and contact him? He definitely is.

Benny 1:06:16

Steven and Jodie go on to have two children together: a boy named Stevie and a girl named Ashley. In 1989, a two-episode miniseries is made of the story, or made for TV movie, called I Know My First Name is Steven, and he does appear in the in this um film as he has a cameo as I believe it's of like a police officer in the rescue scene. On the afternoon of Saturday 16th, 1989, nine years after returning home, Stevie finishes a shift at Pizza Hut and gets on his motorcycle and begins his 15 minute ride home. It's recently rained and the road and the roads are wet. A woman who is driving a friend's car and isn't totally familiar with it accidentally pulls out in front of Steven and stalls, and he isn't able to stop in time. He's thrown from his bike forty-five feet. He's riding without a helmet because it had been stolen a few days earlier. He's rushed to the Merced County Medical Center but has sustained massive head injuries and is pronounced dead at 5 35 p.m., aged 24.

Clare 1:07:22

It's it's so yeah, what a life. Wow.

Benny 1:07:28

Ten years pass, and it's now March 18th, 1999. Just outside the Highway 140 entrance to Yosemite National Park, in a clearing overlooking a lake, police discover the bodies of 42-year-old Carol Evans, Carol Evans Sund, and 16-year-old Sylvia Pl Silvana Peloso in the trunk of their burnt-out rental car. Carol has died via strangulation with a rope, while Sylvina has been raped and shot. Carol had been on holiday in the area with her daughter and her daughter's friend Sylvina. The daughter is not found at the scene. One week passes, and the police receive a note that reads, We had fun with this one, along with a marking on a hand-drawn map. The map leads police to discover the deceased body of Carol's daughter, Julie, who has also been raped and her throat cut. Several months later, on the 22nd of July, the decapitated body of a 26-year-old naturalist named Joey Ruth Armstrong is also found in the park. Police find that the deaths of these four women all have a common connection. They'd all stayed at the Cedar Lodge Motel in El Portal, California, in the days before their murders. This leads police to interview guests and staff working at the motel, and eyewitnesses do provide some useful information. They recall seeing a blue 1972 International Scout, which is an SUV or like a truck truck type thing, and they learn that the vehicle belongs to a 37-year-old handyman who works at the lodge but who's not shown up for work since Armstrong's murder. They put out a be on the lookout to the police force, and on the local news they put his picture and a and a car and appeal for public information on his whereabouts. One day later, a woman who has seen the broadcast phones the police to say that she's just seen a man who matches their description. He's with her now at a bar in a resort, and she tells them that he's that he's sitting in a corner booth. He'll be the one wearing clothes, she says. Police arrive at the at the location, which is a nudist colony.

Carrie 1:09:36

Ah it's like wearing clothes.

Benny 1:09:41

They take the man in for questioning, and with minimal effort he confesses to the murder of all four victims. He says that he'll give them all the details they want about the crimes in exchange for some quote child pornography to view while in prison. They tell him they cannot and will not do that. The man is 37-year-old Cary Stayner, Steven's older brother.

Clare 1:10:06

I was watching your face, Carrie, for the reveal. Wild.

Carrie 1:10:12

Wild. He obviously wanted to get caught, the letter, you know, him confessing straight away, him making it he's not clearing his tracks. He obviously wants to be found.

Benny 1:10:24

Yeah, and and for the fact that he has stopped turning up to work, like I think it was kind of an all-in on the run. I don't think it was like I'm gonna get away for this as long as I can. That was I think you're right, there's some element of giving up at that point. Cary Stayner does end up cooperating, lead leading them to physical evidence and providing them with detailed information that could only be known by the perpetrator. He's found guilty on four counts of first degree murder, among other charges, and is sentenced to death. He remains on death row today. And he is, as a side note, there are quite a few other unsolved murders with similar circumstances in the area that he's maybe connected to as well. So he's committed to these four, but they there is a whole list of different disappearances that they think he could be um connected to. So Cary, who by definition is a serial killer, has said in interviews that he can't explain why he did what he did. But he says that these are urges that have been with him since the late 1960s when he was a boy himself. And if his statements and recollections are to be believed, this means that he has been fantasizing about committing these types of actions since before his younger brother's abduction. So many fascinating elements here to think about the impact of his brother being gone and abduction and the sexual assault and to now be a perpetrator. It feels like there must be some connection there, and yet he's saying, I was always like that. It was I was like that before Steven.

Carrie 1:11:44

I think to be I mean, I know there's nature versus nurture and and he's definitely been through a lot of trauma and maybe that accelerated these feelings into action, but from my personal opinion, if he was capable of that, I d I think that's that's something broken in his brain, not just trauma.

Benny 1:12:03

Yeah, I mean, yeah, there's something broken. But I in my head I'm thinking, okay, if he was like that before, surely the experiences of what your brother went through would cancel that out, would would ruin that fantasy for you, I would think.

Carrie 1:12:15

But maybe him hearing it is like putting fuel on that fire. I guess they didn't talk about it though.

Clare 1:12:30

I wonder if it's like a infantilization. Like I know, like as an adult, he's saying he had these feelings before what happened to Steven happened. And I mean, you can kind of paint that picture when you're an adult, maybe, but I wonder if there's almost like a, you know, like while Steven was gone, it was like this like I wonder where he is, like, I wonder what's happening to him where he is, blah, blah, blah. Then he comes back, and again to your point, Carrie, they never talked about it, so then he's filling in the gaps. So maybe if he did have these feelings or urges, then his brothers almost like shape potentially his story's kind of like shaped his fascination of like what would I do in those situations, maybe?

Benny 1:13:13

Like, yeah, I I I should have clarified, sorry, so this is 1999. So this book, the book, the book that I'm kind of using as a source came out in 1991. So by so gro growing up, his brother wouldn't have known about what was going on and it wouldn't have been talked about when Steven was alive. But since his death when this book came out, he would now presumably have read it and know all the details and things like that. So he's had a good, you know, got nine years or so to learn about what happened to Steven and things like that. But um, yeah, it's but uh yeah, I I know what you're saying though. A lot of people talk about the fact that um he grew up with the focus being on his brother and quite a lot of neglect and kind of the the family was lost and a lot of resentment. So a lot of people kind of connect that the fact of jealousy towards his brother in a way, and um though those sorts of emotions as to why he might have gone and sought out control and which is what rape and sexual assault is, right? It's uh you know it's about controlling someone and uh from a lack of control, maybe in his own childhood.

Carrie 1:14:12

But interestingly, they were grown women, is that all four of the victims?

Benny 1:14:17

Uh well yes, but he he did ask for child pornography. Yeah. He also admitted that um the the last woman he killed who was decapitated, he admitted that his first plan was to kill his girlfriend and her two underage daughters. So I think there was an element of child sexual abuse. I think that that plan fell through and he just went with this other person because of an element of a preference for children as with him as well.

Clare 1:14:48

I do wonder as well, like just feeding on what you were saying, Ben, about like the focus always being on Steven and things like that, there's an element, and you were talking about it before Carrie, that like he clearly wanted to get caught. So there's like an element of like wanting the notoriety of like I'm a serial killer, so I will be the name you remember in this family. Like that kind of I could see that.

Benny 1:15:10

Exactly. Which is why I kind of like do I believe him that he's always had these urges? Yes, maybe they were there, but I do think that there is a lot of things that probably are playing into this, exactly what you just said. This is maybe a way to become more famous than the brother that always overshadowed him growing up. You could speculate forever, but it's so fascinating.

Clare 1:15:29

Yeah. But especially because Steven died as well, right? So, like, not only did this thing happen to him, but then he died when he was young and his kids were young, and so just like the tragic life of Steven. Do you know what I mean? Like that that weight on the family of like the you know, like the boy who never got to live a life kind of thing. So not defending him, but that motivator of going, Well, I want to be the the one that you think about when you think about my family, and I want to be the one that dictates the trauma in this family.

Benny 1:16:02

Like, I reckon, I reckon I think that's part of it, whether he's whether it's subconscious or not. I think that pleasing too. Yeah, I think there's a "Marsha Marsha Marsha!" situation going on. Yeah.

Carrie 1:16:15

I wonder if these parents will let themselves go to therapy now. My goodness.

Clare 1:16:21

Have we ever heard anything from the siblings? Like, have the siblings ever spoken about the other siblings spoken about him either Steven?

Benny 1:16:30

Good question. In um so I have a copy of this book. I know my first name is Steven. It came out in 1991, so it came out before Cary's arrest and crimes were revealed. Um, but there is an updated version which includes Cary's things. So his siblings, Cindy and um others, did provide a lot into this book. I don't know what they've said about Cary's crimes and the later developments. I don't know what they've said there. There's a lot, obviously, on Steven. Um, but yeah, I don't know how they feel about now that their brother. I'm gonna have to get the updated edition, I think.

Carrie 1:17:03

And I've just put it together when they found Steven, wasn't he camping in the Yosemite?

Benny 1:17:10

Exactly. Oh, I've made sure to include a few little tidbits in there too.

Carrie 1:17:16

That's a sick, a sickening Easter egg, Ben. Yeah. Oh, that gives me a gross feeling.

Clare 1:17:25

Um, this is a side question, Ben, but I'm just curious with the book and everything coming out, or like I guess like the proper details of his story happening after he died. I'm curious whether they talk if the siblings or his wife or anybody talks about whether or not they would whether he would have wanted that.

Benny 1:17:46

Yes, that's a really good question. So the um so the author worked very closely with Steven and in in many, in a lot of situations, including when Steven gave the story about at the table telling his parents he wanted to visit Kenneth and the way they shut down and the abuse and things like that, Steven made it very clear that I want you to write it like this. Um this might be the first way my parents ever processed this information. Wow. So it's very um I'm gonna I would be almost uncomfortable with how much detail this book goes into in terms of the sexual abuse and things like it'd be in a normal situation, I'd be like, oh I don't I don't know that it's it almost becomes gratuitous. Yeah, if I yeah. But knowing that Steven approved it and specifically wanted these details to be seen and to be heard by his parents, and you know, this was kind of his way of of speaking for the first time makes me be okay with it.

Carrie 1:18:33

But it is Yeah, maybe he was processing processing it himself through this mechanism.

Benny 1:18:40

The author did also, after Steven's death, he was still working on the book, but he did also get permission from the family to continue with putting the book out. So he kind of covered both angles there, but Steven's intentions were definitely captured properly, yeah.

Carrie 1:18:52

Did Steven remain in contact with Timmy and what happened to Timmy?

Benny 1:18:57

Good question. So yeah, Timmy was a pallbearer at his funeral.

Carrie 1:19:02

Oh stop, no. I just had a feeling that they would have kept in touch. No one else would have understood.

Benny 1:19:10

I'm so glad you asked that actually, because I didn't think to I f I completely forgot to include that in my in my telling set, but yeah, isn't that a nice thing?

Carrie 1:19:19

I can't contain my emotions around that.

Clare 1:19:21

Yeah.

Carrie 1:19:22

I actually can't.

Benny 1:19:24

So look, we're almost there, people. The story's almost over. Um in 2004, at aged 71, Kenneth Parnell is arrested again after attempting to buy a four-year-old boy for $500.

Clare 1:19:37

What did I say, people? And five hundred dollars is cheap.

Benny 1:19:42

You know, inflation from Jim Beam.

Clare 1:19:44

Inflation from the Jack Daniels.

Benny 1:19:46

Jack Daniel, Jack Daniels.

Clare 1:19:48

Oh my god.

Benny 1:19:49

He's arrested as part of a as part of a sting, having paid $100 up front, and whilst attempting to conduct the final handover of this non-existent child. Oh, that's so disgusting. He's sentenced to 25 years to life under California's three strikes law, but dies in prison several years later on January 21st, 2008. So he serves another four years and then and passes away in prison.

Carrie 1:20:14

Rot in hell, Kenneth. Look how much he got for that. Yeah. I mean, I'm glad justice prevailed at some point. But honey, it's too slow. It's it's not right. It's makes no sense.

Benny 1:20:28

So that, ladies, is the case of Steven Stayner. And again, I just want to call out the primary source I've used for today's case, the book. I know my first name is Steven by Mike Eccles. I've kind of said all this through the case anyway. Um, but it's as close as an account of Steven's experiences as you can get, having been kind of directly written by him and you know, worded by him by him in certain parts. It wasn't published until after Steven's death in 91, with his family's blessing, and there's also an updated edition available which includes the later developments regarding Carrie Stayner's own crimes.

Carrie 1:21:01

Wow.

Benny 1:21:02

What a case eh. I'm going to need a still diet coke, and a real minute to myself. J D and Coke.

Carrie 1:21:10

Well, no, thank you. Gross fan.

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