The Trout Show

Liquid (Musical) Therapy With Chris Saunders Music.

January 15, 2023 The Trout Season 3 Episode 3
The Trout Show
Liquid (Musical) Therapy With Chris Saunders Music.
The Trout Show
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Show Notes Transcript

 Chris Saunders is a native New Yorker, born and raised in Manhattan. Coming from British and Jamaican roots, he had an innate love of music, which was nurtured by his family. Chris was raised on the music of icons, such as Jimmy Cliff, The Beatles, The Temptations, Marvin Gaye, and Sting & The Police. In his formative years, he studied the piano, trumpet, and flute, but found his place with a guitar in his lap. Bob Marley and Eric Clapton were some of the early artists that shaped Chris’ music style, later adding the sounds of Oasis and Eagle Eye Cherry. Chris and his producer, Segnon, visit with The Trout about Chris's music and upcoming projects for 2023 that includes animation and music.
 https://www.chrissaundersmusic.com/
https://www.thetroutshow.com/ 

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Hey, everybody, it's the trout. Hope you're having a great day. If you're new to this channel, I interview musicians, I should say very talented musicians located all over the planet. You're going to find out some independent artists that I hope more people get to listen to them and discover them and listen to their music. And then you're going to know about some of the famous people that we got coming up on the show that get to tell their story about their musical careers. Today's episode is about two guys that have been friends for a long time that have started making music and I should say, really cool music. It's Chris Saunders and his producer, Signon. They're out of New York City. Well, one of them is they met in New York City, but now one of them lives in New York and the other one lives in La. So they do cross country production. I got to hear Chris Saunders, and I thought he was really unique in his songwriting. But what's really cool about these two is the difference in their personalities and their backgrounds. Chris comes from a Jamaican and Scottish heritage, and Signon got his start writing beats, and now they put some music together that I think you're going to like. But they got some projects coming up that are very interesting, that I think you're going to hear or like to hear about. We talk about their music, we talk about how they're developing a new project, and we even talk about NFT's non fungible tokens, what. So before we get to Chris Saunders music, remember, if you like this channel, please subscribe to it. If you like this episode, give us a big thumbs up. We'd appreciate it very much. The next up is Chris Saunders. Music. I think you're going to really like it. And you know why? Because that's next on the Trout show. The one thing that really caught my ear, so to speak, Chris, was I listened to Ghostband in my behavior. go through my head before the thing. Get going. Okay. I watched you play it live and I said, oh, I like that. I like the chord pad. Of course, I know you used all my guitar is behind me, but used to capo. I'm looking at stuff because I've been playing league guitar for so long, but then I read about you, and that really was really the thing that got me was, here's somebody, although you're a native New Yorker, Jamaican, and what's the other Caribbean? Was another island involved in this, or American or what was the whole story behind sort of an island? Scotland. Scotland. Dad's Jamaican, mom Scottish. They met at the UN in Geneva through a mutual friend. Oh, wow. That's how it started. Then you came about. Yeah, my brother first the golden child and then me. Yeah. Is that it? Just the two of you? We have a couple of step brothers and a half brother. But that's even longer story we'll get into when you guys met and all that stuff, because I know you perform on the new Allen just come out or is it been out for a while? The one that's on your website? The website, yeah. Liquid Therapy has been out for a while. There the website. And that was another collaboration between Segon and myself. That one was more I'm writing a lot of songs up in my guitar and then Segnan, the genius, is like, translating that into fully produced things. And then there was a few songs that he just produced from beginning to end. Segnan, I want to get to that because I've had people ask me to produce stuff for him. I'm in the same boat you are. You're in La. And he's in New York. It's kind of like, are you going to play for my trip to Go? I can't really sit in my office and produce. Yeah, man. Could you go back in to do this track? Yeah, so I understand that, but that really what caught my eye, Chris, and then the music, and I'm just going to tell you upfront, I'm not a rap guy, I'm not a hip guy, hip hop, that much. But the way you guys put it together really was cool. I mean, it just really sounded great. And I know a lot of artists that and music business has completely changed, but you're not somebody, Chris, that you can pigeon, which is a good thing and a bad thing, you know what I mean? And I'm not telling something you probably don't already know. So just kind of lead me through the fact that a little bit about how you started and all that stuff, and then the next thing you're playing in and you got the band that used to have is the 11th Ward still together or are you guys still a gigging? We're on our 77th version of the band. I tour under Chris Saunders now with some light maintenance of the 11th towards social media. But to your point, I have that diverse background with my parents made Jamaican and Scottish. As you know, Jamaica is a huge music nation, despite I'm a reggae guy, love reggae. I was pretty much raised on it. And then my mom's side of the family, the Scottish side, all of her brothers and even my cousins, they all play guitar. So I was kind of raised in this atmosphere. Right. And it took me a while to really get into this. I started writing in 2005. Oh, my, you are late bloomer. Yeah, very late. But really helps that I hate to say this, but I had a girlfriend at the time. When I first started writing, it was all happy lovey dovey stuff. And then I started working, so I like, you know how it is. You don't have time, as much time as you'd like to do the music and then we broke up and then the music came pouring out. So if I'm going to draw a silver lining on a failed relationship, that's it. You started writing in 2005. Did you self taught yourself how to play guitar or did you have somebody helping you out? A little bit of both. In like middle school, I took some lessons, but one day the the teacher calls, my mom says, this is a waste of my time and your money because I was always at the gym. Are they playing basketball or watching the basketball games? High school games. So I was hundred were like, well, say 98% basketball when I was younger. So that got ended within months. And and then I had a friend, a mutual friend of Segnant and Tamer who saw my guitar in my house. He's like, you have a guitar? Like, let's jam. But he essentially retail me a few things and then that was like the early age stages of the internet so I can look up chords and started kind of teaching myself that way. When did you start writing, though? Were you writing right away? Because a lot of people play guitar or play an instrument, but they don't write. Yeah. No. When I first started playing, let me just say this. I don't really love performing. I'll tell you the story. When I first played in front of people, but I would just play sometimes in front of my high school friends when Tamer retail me some stuff. And it was covers I loved Oasis, Wonderwall, Aircraft and Jason Heaven. Bob Marley, of course. Of course. And literally for years, even going to college, it was just like Save Tonight, Eagle. Iteria it was like four or five songs that I would play. Right. So you like doing studio work? I like it because I don't have to have tons of eyes on me. That's what heightens my anxiety. Well, I think going to studio and segment, you're a producer, you understand this. You've probably been in a lot of people. Some people get more they get more anxious in the studio than they do performing live. Because you probably seen that, I'm sure. Yeah. And so you got to get used to it. It's a very different muscle. It's a different muscle entirely. It's exactly right. I think there are artists who love to do who love live performances and you get them in the studio and they're uncomfortable. I've worked a lot of artists. The repetition of takes, doing it over and over again, that doesn't jive with them. They're more like in the moment. The reaction from the crowd just kind of feeling it and going off it and not trying to, like, work to okay, that was great, but let's perfect it. Let's tweak that. Let's do that 70 more times. Like, that as much. So it varies. It really just depends. I also love going to the studio and the people that probably don't like it where you said, take 70 takes. I kind of get off on that a little bit. To a certain level, it's got to be difficult. So you don't like performing, but you like going to studio. And I really believe anymore that seems to be the way of the world a lot. But what is it you want to do? I mean, you got a great producer there. He didn't come in because you suck. He loves sucky music. Only one of the sucky artists. No, I do it. I perform anyway. Obviously, as you said earlier, the Pandemic really put a lot of artists careers on hold. But I've gotten past the early stages. I remember the first time I went to perform, I was just bar hopping in Hoboken, New Jersey, with a co worker, and we were on our third or fourth bar, so clearly in good shape. And we walk into one that has an open mic on, and he had her even played before. He's like you should play. Oh, yeah, I've heard that. Get up there and play, Chris. Get up. Play. And I tell him, like, sure. Because I figure by the time it gets to me, like, we'll be out of there, you know, go to our 5th, 6th bar. Yeah. And he comes back from the host and is like, you're up next. My heart stops. Meanwhile, there was a girl that I was interested in, like, at the front of the bar. Like, I didn't we weren't there together. Like, he was just there. I went to Deadly. Yeah. So I get up on the chair. I got the guitar on my knee, and I'm playing the two songs I know the best, which is Tears in Heaven and Wonderwall. But because my leg is shaking and my guitar is on my leg, I'm messing up everything. Yeah, because Tears in Heaven is not the easiest thing in the world to play. Also, now we should play at a bar, and it's trying to help people. And I get off stage, and I'm I get a drink, and for the next half hour, my hand is just shaking with my drink. I'm just telling it's been that was like 2000 and 910. So, like, since then yeah, I'm a lot more comfortable on stage now. So what's your I'm getting ahead of the game here a little, but what do you want to do? What's your goal? I mean, ideally yeah. I think making a career out of music would be what I want to do. I love creating music. I love affecting people with my music and doing what you love. Everyone wants to do that, and most people don't, so trying to get there. So how did you two meet? I mean, here you got a producer down there. How did you meet with them? Well, we've known each other since, I don't know, 2001. Are you from New York? Are you in La. 2001? We were born, right? Yeah, exactly. Okay, guys, so a friend of mine from college went to high school with Chris, basically, I think I want to say, like, after freshman year. So I started getting into making music early days, using Fruity Loops. Now it's called FL Studio. Much more professional, sounding, pretty loops. But in the early days of food loops, like when it was Freed loops two, I think it was. Now I don't even know, they're on Flu 2021. I think it was literally free loops. Two. And so early on, I kind of got into making beats just for fun. Me and our mutual friend orpheus I was doing it, too. Chris got into it, too. Chris got into it a little bit, too. You said you were using FL Studio. Is that what you're using? Yeah. Okay. I always kind of made music. I always made beats for myself, for other artists, for my brother, for singers, just for anyone who kind of needed beats. They weren't very good, but it was what I could do at the time. And over the years, Chris kind of started to pick up his music thing. He started playing more and more. And I don't know what year it was that we eventually started collaborating, but it was before the Liquid Therapy album. It must have been like late 2000s, right? Sounds about right. Yeah, we recorded a bunch of stuff that we haven't done anything with. It's just kind of sitting on your computer on your hard drive. That's true. Here's the question I've always had, because I follow different people on music places and all that, and they're always talking about doing beats. Back then, what were people using the beats for? I mean, anything that could just throw it on something. I mean, there had to be some was there any money in it? I mean, everybody wants to do beats, but I think they're selling them. I think people are buying them for different things to use them for. Yeah, I sold a couple of beats early on, like $50, like really cheap stuff. There were a couple of websites back then around for you to upload your beats and you could put your beat tag on it so that people wouldn't just steal it. I sold a couple of beats that way, but I mainly worked with artists that I really respected and wanted to work with on longer term projects and build albums with. So I looked at those early days as basically me, like, honing my skills and refining what it is to actually work with artists. Because making beats and being a producer, there's overlap, but they aren't the exact same thing, because that piece of human piece of having to interact with another human and work with them, it's an entirely different skill set than just making beats. And then also, like, how you actually produce music when you're thinking about making a beat, that just sounds good. For someone to listen to an individual beat versus making a song where there's got to be space for vocalists and it's got to be arranged. You got to think about, okay, where the chorus is going to come, where are we going to do a bridge? That took some time as well. Just kind of like this beat sounds good, it's catchy, it's hot, someone might want to wrap on it. But in the early days it wasn't a ton of money in it. It was more just looking at it as building the experience. Maybe if I break even on some gear I want to pick up, I want to pick up. At the time, actually, it was less about Midi keyboards and more about actual keyboards because the sounds were when I was looking at the Triton and the Phantom and actual keyboards. Nowadays I rely on my Midi and just have everything in VST and with my dog. But that was it at the time was trying to buy, see if I could get a sure mic, a solid mic that I could record into, solid interface the Pro Tools inbox, so I could get that set. So it's really just about breaking even. diplomacy. It's also like therapy. It's coming together in a way because I've worked in the past where I've kind of pushed my ideas as producer, this is what I think. I'm the one in charge. I made this beat. I had all these ideas in mind when I made it and I'm putting it on the artist. That usually doesn't always work out that well because you can hear it if they don't get it, if they're not into it, you can hear it in performance, they don't fully grasp it or they're just not into it. The audience will know. And you'll know, as a producer, it wasn't quite right. And then it can be that way around where you kind of give just, okay, here's it do whatever you want with it. And then at times where I've kind of been like, oh, I didn't really hear that. It's not really exactly what I had in mind as a producer, but the vocalist kind of did whatever they want to do with it. And so what I've learned is kind of that marriage of my thoughts, my ideas, my initial impressions, but then also being malleable and kind of working with artists and what is it that you want to express? What is it you're hearing? More often than I'll listen, I'll create something and I'll say, what are you here? Because I know exactly what it is I hear. But I don't want to force my ideas before I get their initial kind of reaction. What was the first thing you felt when you heard this? We did that with Countdown as well. Yeah, exactly. When did you guys record the first stuff together? I mean, you said you were doing it for a while, but when did it get real? I mean, I think well, Liquid Therapy was the first album we did. And when was that released? That was 2014. Okay. I don't really recall releasing any singles before then. We released stuff after. Yeah, I think we record a bunch before that. Just kind of loose stuff. But I don't think we fully because we didn't have a project in mind, I don't think we fully took the songs from, like, oh, this is record your guitar and to build it into a full song. I think that really happened with the Liquid Therapy project. So he's been a friend for years, for a long time. How was he as a producer? Did he help you? I got to go, everybody. I'm just kidding. I'll mute him. Hold on. A lot of the stuff that Sagnan was saying about developing as a producer, I think I was lucky enough to catch him. We didn't start working when he started making beats in the early 2000. We started a little later. So every time I've been in the studio with Segnan, I feel like, well, one, we've kind of evolved together in certain ways, but he's always been able to suggest, things get more out of me. Push your vocals harder here. Don't do false that are really insultful things that really bring out what the instrumentation is doing. So we had a pretty fruitful relationship. I think we've made a lot of good music over the years. Segnon, why did you want to work with him? You could have been a friend and said, okay, I'll go in the studio with you, or whatever. We're going to do this at to help you out. But you're a serious producer. So what was it about Chris that you said, oh, I got to do this project? A couple of things. Like, one, obviously, there's got to be a baseline of just, like, talent, right. And liking the actual music and liking the actual lyrical content and what you've got to say. And Chris has always had a really great songwriting. He's always been someone who I also just connect with as a human, which I think is the biggest part, because if you're going to be in the studio, it's a commitment. It's time. You're going to be in the hours and hours working on the song while you're recording it, then post production, then mixing and in promotion. It's a relationship, it's a job. Yeah, it really is. And so you've got to be on the same kind of wavelength and also just vibe, just want to actually be around them. And then musically, I think it was also just like, a challenge for me and something different and pushed me in a different kind of way because I've been focusing primarily on at the time, primarily on hip hop, pop, R and B. I've done a couple of I think maybe I've done some film scoring stuff. Of course you have. I'm trying to think of the time around 24th by then. Yeah, I think I'd done a couple of film scores. But, yeah, it was a new challenge, a new kind of new way of exploring things artistically and creatively that I hadn't pursued before. And so I was just eager to see, okay, what can we do together? I've seen Chris perform live a bunch. I've seen him with his band. What does that translate? Like, in a studio setting, that going to sound like an actual recording and what's that going to sound like with my influence? How can I bolster that? Not go in there and change it and say, okay, forget what you've done in the past. Now you're working with me, but build upon what it is that you've been doing. I think, in a way, you haven't actively done that, but I think you have rubbed off on me. And just from the way you produce and the stuff you produce, which is phenomenal. Go on is like a very R and B song, which I hadn't really done before. I listen to your album and don't take this offensively. It's kind of all over the place. But that's what I liked about it. That's what I liked about it. Because I played a couple of tunes on that album, my wife said, I don't like this song. And I think, well, that's okay, because you didn't like a lot of stuff I did, too, either. But then I play something else. Oh, I like that song. And I've already got my mindset. When you said Jamaica, I went, okay, man, he's going to have some little reggae stuff here going on. He had one song with a part of reggae in there. Well, no, but I mean, as I said earlier, that was what makes you unique. You have your own style. Liquid Therapy was out for several years ago. Have you matured in your songwriting? No, it's always been amazing. I just kidding. definitely just by the nature of getting older, I think you have to. But I've also had not just other music, new music that's come out that influences me. I started out Bob Marley, obviously, and early on, Eric Clapton, but then, like, cold play. I'm a big Cold Play fan, and that started influencing me as well. But then you have even newer artists, like Chronic, like, he's a reggae rapper, reggae kind of artist. He's amazing. And I feel like something that you kind of heard in this song is similar to that countdown. And of course, as the Go On song I mentioned, that was what the file was titled, that Segnon Made. And that's how I made the song. Right. It was just based off of that. And I think instead of using my own personal experience all the time, I've been matured into being able to use thoughts, ideas and other things to write songs. So segment in your business world, so to speak, is your favorite thing to help rap artists? Or do you I mean, you have a stable of different artists that you obviously, Chris doesn't do that that so much. I mean, you had some wrap in some of the songs, which I thought would sounded good. What's your favorite thing to do? Not necessarily the performer, but if somebody comes up with you and says, this is what I do, what kind of genre do you like producing? I hate to cop out by saying I don't really have one in particular. Okay. But it's true. I think it depends on the artist. I think that I like to work with artists more than I like to work on particular genres, because I just worked on the track a few days ago with an electro pop group, and it was super inspiring and very different and something that I loved exploring. But then I also worked for the hip hop artist a couple of days before that, and that was inspiring in a different way. And me and Chris are working on other music that's going to come out probably next year. That's different than anything we've done before. To me, it's less about particular genres. I think I get in modes every once in a while. If I'm in a mode where I'm like, oh, I really need something high energy, maybe I'm in the mood for some high energy. And even within genres, subgenres. So within hip hop, it might be a very anthemic, kind of like loud, 808 heavy, booming, Southern kind of influence kind of track. Or maybe I'm in a more pensive, thoughtful, more jazzy, 90s inspired, boom BAP, hip hop kind of track or RMB, so it could depend on in that particular day. But overall, it's usually I get more inspired by a particular artist than I do by genres. I'd say, unless there's something that I just haven't done before. And I go, I've never tried doing that. I've never tried blending heavy metal and country music and trap music. Let me try that. Let's see what it sounds like. So that might be interesting, but usually it's more like artists. I get excited about just particular artists and concepts. If someone comes up with a concept or something, just kind of seems exciting or interesting, okay, let's do that. But as a producer, you can do that. Artists can't. The thing that you have going for you is you have all these different people that you can work with and have that ability and say, oh, man, I want to work with this kind of genre. Segon with you. What do you see with Chris? I mean, here you're the guy with the record industry the way it is. Do you feel that? And this affects you, chris, what's the best way to do this now? Do you want to search for a record deal? I mean, do you want a label to own you or do you want to just have a gazillion? I want to be on Spotify and people listen to me a million times and I made $0.53. But what do you see as a professional in your business? What do you see coming? How do you work with somebody like Chris? Well, it's interesting timing, because me and Chris have been speaking about this. I think that the industry it's funny that the Rapid labels are making a lot of money off of streaming, right? They're doing really well. Yeah, they're not paying anybody. They're making a ton of money. Yeah, the model works really well for the industry. Yeah. For a while, I think when Napster kind of pirating music hit, the music industry took a hit. And then when streaming kind of came on, the labels have now they've made more money. They're making more money than they were in the early 2000s. They're making a ton of money now, but the artists aren't, right? In the meantime, you also got artists in these 360 deals, right, where, like, now, the labels are getting a piece of everything now. They're getting a piece of the touring, they're getting a piece of your merch, they're getting a piece of any appearances that you make, so they're getting all of it. So where it used to be, you have to deal with the record label and everything else is yours pretty much, besides your management agent, all that stuff. I didn't know they were doing that. They're doing that now, 360 deals. So you make an appearance at a bar and get $50,000 to show up because you're famous, they get a piece of that. You do a commercial RV, they get a piece of that. So it's been a model that's not really worked very well for artists. It's worked exceptionally well for the labels, and they're making tons of money. So what I've been kind of doing lately, and Chris and I have been speaking a lot about this and he's kind of delving into it, is kind of Web three and music NFTs, which is kind of a new space that's been emerging in the last year, two years or so. It's still in its infancy and it's definitely not where it's going to be, but it allows artists to be able to sell music directly to fans, to collectors, to consumers, at whatever rate that they choose. No label necessary. It's using cryptocurrency. But a lot of artists are very successful in that space and allows them the ability to kind of sell these NFT's. They can add different what they call utilities. So if you own the NFT, maybe you get access to screenings for performances, or you get access to VIP backstage, or you can get to have conversation with the artist when they're working on their record, things like that. So it allows a lot of opportunity for artists to kind of actually generate some money. I've sold some NFTs and made more money off of NFT's than I made off of all the streams that I've done combined. That's amazing. It really is. Yeah. And so I work with artists, an artist who sold a music video for $50,000. So it's a real thing that has real possibility of reempowering artists and bringing back that artistic sovereignty and not having to go through the industry machine. So I see there being a lot of potential. The project that me and Krista were working on for next year, it's one that combines both music and animation, which works very well for also, like, the Web Three space, which has worked for a lot of visual artists and who sold a lot of work. Beeple famously sold a piece of his for $69 million last year. NFC, you're kind of like crypto to me. What are your next steps? Just working on this next project with the animation. Is that your next thing you're working on right now, Chris? Yeah, we're intermittently doing that. We have a lot of a long way to go. But the music is close, which is great. Really exciting. The animation is like the big thing that's going to take a longer period of time. Can you tell me anything about the concept? Yeah, why not? We don't have any agreements. Right. Segment? Okay, so the project is called the Man With No Name. And it is a wait a minute, it was Clinton Eastwood. Okay. Yeah. You know what? I wish I had known that before I named it, but we're keeping it now. I don't know if it's trademark. There you go. Well, that's a very good question. But it is also a Western style animation project. And the music is all like country, western, rock kind of stuff. So, again, as Segment said, very different from anything either of us has done. And we're working with another producer, co producing, who you were talking about doing everything on digitally. He has done a lot of orchestral work just on the digital side. He's done a lot of live instruments that he's put in and got other musicians to record for us. But it's how I pictured some of these songs to be in my head, as you had said earlier. And it was just us sitting on a zoom like this and me going, just humming stuff. And he was able to actualize that. Segment you're producing it or helping produce it? Yeah, me and he mentioned Mike. Mike is a guitarist and also coproducer on it. And it's funny because we've done the entire thing remotely. Right. I don't think we've even done one session. We met up for beers once, I think, in New York. I came to you because you were in town once, recorded re recorded vocals. That was just to clean some stuff up. But the three of us have never the three of us have not actually sat in the room together to work on. It numerous. I think that's cool. But, yeah, I think it's a very ambitious project just because of the it's a whole full story and the songs kind of flow into one another. It's very, very cinematic. And then the animation piece of it and then just, again, just taking on a different style musically for all of us has been a challenge. When you asked before about genres, this is the kind of thing that just I love this big, ambitious project with a vision, a story. This is what gets me excited. as I walked down the street well, that's it for this episode of The Trout Show. I hope you liked it very much. If you need to know more about Chris Saunders, just go to his website. Chrisandersmusic.com, you know, mine is the Troutshow.com. Until next time. Remember, people, it's only rock and roll. Bully. Love it. See you.