Building a Community: Women in Influencer Marketing with Jessy Grossman
Jan 09, 2024Episode 162
SheSpeaks, Inc.
On today's episode, we sit down with industry expert Jessy Grossman, founder of Women in Influencer Marketing (WIIM). Jessy shares her journey from talent management to founding a community for women in the creator and influencer space. We discuss the evolution of the industry, the distinction between creators and influencers, and the empowering opportunities the influencer space provides for women. Jessy also offers insights into the future of the industry.
Highlights: 00:00 Jessy's impact in women's influencer marketing. 09:40 Social media democratizes content creation and influence. 12:54 A strong role model; How Jessy's mom helped shape her female perspective. 14:01 Empowerment and impact through building and serving a community. 18:51 Why creators should embrace a business mindset for success. 20:47 How rapid growth in industry brings learning opportunities.
Links & Resources: About Jessy: https://www.jessygrossman.com/ WIIM: https://iamwiim.com/
On today's episode, we sit down with industry expert Jessy Grossman, founder of Women in Influencer Marketing (WIIM). Jessy shares her journey from talent management to founding a community for women in the creator and influencer space. We discuss the evolution of the industry, the distinction between creators and influencers, and the empowering opportunities the influencer space provides for women. Jessy also offers insights into the future of the industry.
Highlights: 00:00 Jessy's impact in women's influencer marketing. 09:40 Social media democratizes content creation and influence. 12:54 A strong role model; How Jessy's mom helped shape her female perspective. 14:01 Empowerment and impact through building and serving a community. 18:51 Why creators should embrace a business mindset for success. 20:47 How rapid growth in industry brings learning opportunities.
Links & Resources: About Jessy: https://www.jessygrossman.com/ WIIM: https://iamwiim.com/
I grew up with this idea of how strong you can be as a woman, owning your lane, owning your space and the power that comes from that. I always appreciated that perspective. I've seen a lot of women not necessarily maybe grow up or just be exposed to that concept and struggle.
Speaker 2:
Welcome back. We have a terrific guest for today. Today's guest is someone I've known for a while. She is an industry insider. She understands the creator and the influencer space quite well. This is Jesse Grossman. Jesse is the founder of Women in Influencer Marketing. Prior to that, jesse spent time as a talent agent. She got her start from the perspective of managing talent, successfully built that business up, sold it and then started Women in Influencer Marketing.
Speaker 2:
I know we've talked about this before on the show how women really fuel the influencer creator space. Over 80% of all influencers are women. Not surprisingly, a lot of the people who are supporting the women in the influencer marketing industry are women. Jesse created a group called Women in Influencer Marketing which has become really a go-to group for people talent agents, talent themselves, people who work at agencies All kinds of women who are involved in the industry are working with women in influencer marketing. Jesse has just a great perspective, a very broad-based perspective, on what's going on in the industry. In today's conversation, jesse and I talk about the influencer space, what it means for women, how women really are changing their futures by participating in the industry. We talk about the evolution of the industry and then we talk about some outlook for the future. What do we think is going to be happening in this space? I really enjoyed my conversation with Jesse. I hope you will too, and we're going to jump right into it. Jesse Grossman, welcome to the show.
Speaker 1:
Thank you so much for having me. I'm excited to chat with you and I have a feeling we're going to get into some good stuff.
Speaker 2:
I'm someone who I have been following and you've built this amazing community of women in your organization, the Women in Influencer Marketing. You yourself are an influencer. You're your creator because you're creating tons of content for your community, and you're also someone who understands the influencer space from a business standpoint just based on where you've been. How did you get engaged or interested in being in this space?
Speaker 1:
In this space generally. I used to work with actors, I used to work in entertainment and commercials and so from the representation side, just frankly, I saw the writing on the wall in that field, which is I'm most attracted to innovation, I'm most attracted to being involved in newness and excitement. That wasn't what I was feeling when I was in a pretty antiquated industry that had its excitement, but I wanted more. I worked at a talent agency at the time. The briefest version of that story is that I launched their influencer division. It was somebody a best friend of mine, who actually used to work at that agency, who was like you should really look into creators, you should really look into influencers and there's something there. Maybe you could represent them For me.
Speaker 1:
I'll always say I'm never necessarily the one to come up with the big idea, but I'm a really good listener. I give my friend full credit for putting that idea on my head and I got into it just because I was looking for something that the creator economy which wasn't called it at the time encompassed. That's how I got into it at the beginning and I think that even at that time, 10 plus years ago, I was still saying I think the sweet spot is when you find people who you know, who come from the traditional space, but when they get the influencer online digital space, it just takes everything that they're doing to the next level. So we were trying to sort of identify who those people were so we can, you know, connect them with the right folks to just amplify their work.
Speaker 2:
So there's been this evolution. We've talked, you know, talked a little bit about this. People who, you know, have started in different places but still all end up in this space, right, in terms of being creators, being influencers. I want to just quickly, if we can for a minute, talk about the difference, because I personally use them interchangeably. I know that the industry is trying a bit to distinguish between the term creator and the term influencer. What is your perspective?
Speaker 1:
So I was just like you. If I'm being completely honest, I used to use them interchangeably and not really think much about it. I lately have sort of changed my tune because I've been educated by people who are giving me some pretty interesting distinctions between the two, the main distinctions being that creators aren't all influencers and all influencers aren't all creators. So I think that it all sort of started really when, like TikTok really took off, because you didn't necessarily have to be a creator. I want to clarify that and just say, like, there are some TikTokers that do insanely creative things. So there are absolutely creators on TikTok, but there are also people on TikTok who literally have there's no production value and it's really just about their thoughts. What they're saying, just being very open and vulnerable. Is that creative? Like it can be, but it doesn't have to be. And I think before that, with Instagram and YouTube, which are highly produced, like they were the main platforms, I think that, like it wasn't, there wasn't that much of a distinction. So TikTok opened things up. I think it gave like another route to go, and the main distinction between a creator and influencer is really important, because I think most brands these days are looking for influencers and what they're looking for are people who actually have influence and a salesmanship quality Like they can to a group of people and they can actually influence them to do something, whether it's, you know, make a purchase or sign a petition, or they can move them to action. You know, I appreciate when you're saying you know, if y'all creators are influencers like what they would define themselves as it might be different, and I agree with you and I think I wish that more people had the self awareness to know like this is my forte. We can't all be good at everything, and so I think like it's certainly not good or bad if you're one or the other, but I do think having that self-awareness to know where you excel is really important. So, you know, for example, ugc has been really really big this year.
Speaker 1:
Creators all day, every day, are all over UGC work because they're coming up with really interesting, creative ideas and content, but they aren't necessarily tasked per se with the sales part of it, because some of that content doesn't even go live on their channel. I emphasize the user aspect of it versus, like you know, jesse, generated content. Right, it doesn't necessarily have my opinions and my stamp on it. I'm just like this user of the product, this general user, and I'm just creating content showing that I love the product. But am I infusing my personal thoughts and opinions and my spin and my personal brand? Usually not. That's usually not what UGC is about. So that's perfect for creators.
Speaker 1:
But when you really want to move people to action and you want to utilize, like, your brand voice and your brand to influence and move people to make a purchase or, you know again, sign up to show whatever it is, then that influence is where that comes in and I think that it'll continue to ebb and flow in terms of, like, what brands are looking for and there's never a one size fits all. Anyway, based on where I said, I'm just seeing more and more brands really want and demand, honestly, expect that influence. They're really holding influencers accountable these days, where it's not really so much of like an awareness play. They really just want to move product. They want to see like real, tangible results. And you know I have a lot of opinions about why I think that shift has happened, but you know it is what it is.
Speaker 2:
You can be somebody who creates great content, but it doesn't necessarily mean that you are presenting it in a way that is going to influence people. Let's talk a little bit about this influence idea, because I think, on the one hand, it's wonderful that the what social media has brought about is this place where everyone I mean I love the democratization of it right, it's like anyone can create an account and build a following. Anyone can do that if they choose to do it. I'm not saying everyone's good at doing it, but, let's say, any person. There's no barrier of entry.
Speaker 2:
I think that that's one of the amazing things about what social media has done it has introduced us to people who we never would have known about right, talented, amazing, smart, great people who we never would have known about, and that's a lot of the positive. I am so grateful that social media has given so many women this opportunity. I mean, what is it like? 86% of creators, influencers, are women, and I think that it's given women such an opportunity to earn income where they wouldn't have been able to otherwise, or it would have been a much different way of earning income. I'd love to get your perspective on that.
Speaker 1:
I freaking love what our industry has given to women in particular because, yes, I've heard the same stats that huge percentage, a huge majority of creators are women. And what a great type of job to have. Because if you can really hone in your processes and really treat it like a business and really get traction, it gives you flexibility, it gives you like, in comparison to the amount of energy and effort that you're putting in I mean, you're getting paid so much. In comparison to that it can just grow and grow and grow Like the opportunities are endless. You are working for yourself. You have so much more control, freedom, the whole thing.
Speaker 1:
So, yes, I'm in the women's space. It's women and influencer marketing, not people in influencer marketing. Our organization is women's focused and wanting to always empower women, and I think that to be able to have those things opens up so many opportunities for a more fulfilling life, just generally because you have so many more options when you have more income. You have so many options when you have more freedom, and there are so many people in the world who just don't have that, based on the historical career trajectory that they're in and the industries that they're in. So that's fantastic and I love that You've built this community of women.
Speaker 2:
I'm a big believer in building communities of women. What inspired you to focus on women in this space and what is the value of women gathering as a community?
Speaker 1:
I mean transparently, I actually give my mom a lot of credit for, I think, the reason why I feel it's so important. I sort of brought up with the idea of why women's rights are so important and what it is to be. You know, my mom was an entrepreneur and always had her own business. I never knew her working for anybody else. So I grew up with this idea of how strong you can be as a woman, sort of owning your lane, owning your space and the power that comes from that. And I always appreciated that perspective. And I've seen a lot of women not necessarily maybe grow up or just be exposed to that concept and struggle. And I vote and even those women though I will get to know them, let's say, and I'll see there's like so much potential there. I think to myself if only they had the awareness, the education, the exposure to their power, they wouldn't be struggling as much as they are. And so it's just been something that's so important to me to just serve this community that I'm obviously part of and to be able to help people. It was always something in the back of my mind Like I hope that in my career I'll be able to actually truly help people. Like that's something that's really fulfilling to me and when I was representing actors it didn't quite feel like that and talent in general, like sure, there are things that I could, you know, say, oh well, I helped, you know, pay for their kids' college education, blah, blah, blah, blah. But I think that the impact is so much more when you have a whole community of women where it's actually not just me directly, one-on-one helping people anymore. It's grown to the point where they're all affecting each other and I think that, like that's probably the most beautiful part of community and when it's actually working and effective, it's not even really about the person who started it in the first place anymore. Once it grows and it really gets traction, the community is servicing the community. Like the community is helping and growing itself and morphing into what it wants to be. It's its own entity.
Speaker 1:
I think that a community of women is just so special. I always want to be careful about generalizing any group of people you know in general terms, and even women, right, I'm not, you know, your traditional girly woman and I have interests that I would consider more masculine, whatever. It is so like we're all multifaceted, of course, but I think if I could say some generalizations. I've just really appreciated the women that I've met in so many different generations too. You know where they're right out of college, or people who are 30 years into their career and everything in between. But I think that it's less about each woman individually and more about what I've been able to observe when a group of women come together. It's a really powerful, cool thing, and it's just something that I honestly I know it sounds so cheesy, but I really truly feel it's like the privilege of my life to be able to like be at the intersection of that and like have this be my job.
Speaker 2:
I like that perspective you shared about how you sometimes, as the community organizer leader, you really have to allow the community to kind of morph into what it wants to be, assuming that you are okay with the direction, that it's going right, I mean, you obviously still have to provide whatever shaping that is important for you in thinking about this space that we're in. It's gone through so much evolution over, you know, since we've both been involved in this space for you, starting out on the talent management side and then creating this amazing community of women who are all parts of the ecosystem. Right, You've got creators and influencers who are in your community. You have talent agents who are in your community. You have brands who are in your community who are hiring these creators. Right, you have agencies. You have the whole ecosystem in there. So you've seen the evolution. What do you think is next for our space?
Speaker 1:
That's a big question. I think that next is the next level of like adulthood for our industry. I think for the longest time we were like very much in our infancy and I think that that's natural in the beginning but, transparently, I thought we would have been a little bit further along at this point. But I think we're getting there and I think that, like that includes things like really holding people accountable for, you know, for producing results and I think that you know, really holding people accountable for pushing themselves creatively and to really truly innovate. But also from the business side of things, because I feel like I've definitely fallen into the space of being a creator myself. It still feels very uncomfortable and I like so much so that I feel like I have to use different terms to describe it, but nonetheless, I've always considered myself like a business person first and foremost, and I think that that is incredibly important for all creators to infuse in their business.
Speaker 1:
You know the idea of having, like, basically, a COO of your business, a chief operating officer, to be able to create systems and processes and run your business like a business. Incorporate yourself, take advantage of writing off things for taxes, because I you know, if you're, the more income you're able to retain because you know how to properly file taxes and write things off, the more opportunities open up, the more you can invest in your business if you choose to invest in yourself or hire a team and just being able to and all of that takes time and takes access to learn. So I don't think I wouldn't want to diminish and say, oh, it's so easy to do. It's not, and a lot of people who get into the creator side of things don't necessarily have a background in business.
Speaker 1:
I literally have a degree in theater, but I can say personally that even myself with a BFA in theater which is like if so many thoughts about that I was able to grab. You know all the resources that are available out there and learn as I go. And if you prioritize, you know running your business like a business, you'll make it happen. Frickin' YouTube University is amazing, you guys, and you know creating, finding your own community, finding your own network of people that you can share information with each other. But yeah, so the next iteration, I think, of our industry is just sort of growing up and becoming more adult and I think that it's a little overdue, but I'm glad that we're here and I'm excited to see what comes from it.
Speaker 2:
I think that's a very interesting way to put it that it's about. You know, we've kind of been around as an industry for a bit of time, you know. Go back to 2015,. It was, I think, a half a billion dollar industry. And now here we are, and I saw Goldman Sachs projecting it's going to be, you know, 400 plus billion dollars a year. So lots of growth in a relatively short period of time. And I think you end up, you know, with that growth. You have some things that you learn that are good and some things that you realize. Well, maybe this isn't the best way to do it, but I agree with you. I think the measurement's getting better, I think the content is getting better. Right, the tools are getting better and people are really kind of stepping in and these influencers are creating these amazing businesses. This has been such a wonderful conversation. I feel like getting your perspective, given where you kind of sit in this world the influencer, creator, economy world has been, I think, really valuable. So thank you for spending this time with us.
Speaker 1:
Thank you so much. I always have fun when we get to chat, so I hope everyone else did too.
Speaker 2:
Where should people follow you and look out for more about your content?
Speaker 1:
Yeah, I mean I would say two places LinkedIn I'm like super, super active on there, Jesse Grossman with a Y, Jesse with a Y and our website. If you want to learn more about WIM, it's I am WIMcom, that's I am W? I I M dot com and you can find all about all about WIM. Thank you, jesse Grossman. Thank you, so nice to chat with you today.