The Table California
The Table is a church family in Arroyo Grande, California. Our desire is to give Jesus His desire...a house where He can be Himself with His family. This podcast hosts the weekly teachings from our Sunday evening gatherings and occasionally supplemental conversations throughout the week.
The Table California
Is That God Speaking or My Imagination?
BONUS MATERIAL - This is a mid-week conversation Neil & Lindsey had as a followup to our gathering on Sunday.
Many of us have questions about hearing God's voice and how to discern His voice from our own. Lindsey and Neil sat down to have a conversation about some of the things the Lord has shown them over the years on this subject.
To see the video of this conversation, check out the new AROUND THE TABLE YouTube channel:
https://www.youtube.com/@AroundTheTable-xs6ld?sub_confirmation=1
For more information on THE TABLE please visit:
www.thetablecalifornia.com
Oh, hello, I feel like I'm sitting at the kids table, all right. Well, sitting at the kids table, we are Okay. So Sunday we talked about obedience, a continuation of what we've been talking about for like three months now the kingdom of God, qualities and characteristics of kingdom people is what we're talking about now. Kingdom people are family. They're not just a collection of individuals who assemble once a week, but they're family. Kingdom people understand the power of their words. They know that their tongue is a weapon it's a flame Kingdom people understand that. And their words. They know that their tongue is a weapon. It's a flame. Kingdom people understand that. And their words are disciplined, and few Kingdom people are generous. We talked about this and then, sunday, we said kingdom people understand obedience. So when God speaks, kingdom people don't wait for understanding to arrive before they obey. They obey. They obey by faith, and so if you haven't listened to the message yet, go back and listen to it.
Speaker 1:There were three points that were made. I'm not going to reiterate those now, but what was interesting is at the end of the message. You know we want everyone to contribute to the gathering questions, comments, contributions, that sort of thing and so I said is there any questions? Does anyone have anything they'd like to add? And the majority of the questions that were asked were not so much about obedience, but they were about hearing the voice of God. How do I know? It's God speaking and not my own imagination, and so I thought more about that on Sunday night.
Speaker 1:You and I talked a little bit on Monday, and one of the thoughts that I had is as much as it would be great to be able to give the quick fix answer, do this, and then out will come this understanding that God's voice sounds like this.
Speaker 1:It's not that way, right. It's a long, slow process of learning what his voice sounds like, how he speaks to us, in the same way that when you and I met, you were a stranger to me, even though I was infatuated with you, I was falling in love with you. If you and I were in a crowd and you called out to me, I wouldn't necessarily know your voice compared to someone else who would call out to me. And so now that we have 20 years under our belt, I know what your voice sounds like. But that didn't come immediately, it didn't come with covenant, it didn't come with infatuation. It came with time Time spent learning how you communicate to me, learning what your voice sounds like, learning the character that you speak with the type of things that you say, getting it wrong sometimes, learning from mistakes. All of those things can be applied to how we learn how to hear God's voice, main point being it takes time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, human beings are so varied in the way that we communicate, the way that we give communication, the way that we receive communication, the way that we give communication, the way that we receive communication, and you know there's so. So often I could hear something from you and I filter it through my own lens and I miss 90 percent of what you're trying to communicate to me me and I end up misunderstanding and maybe saying the wrong thing or responding differently than if I had understanding I would respond, and I think with the Lord it's similar. We're human beings learning how to hear the voice of God and learning how to you know, kind of remove our filter and receive from him and really understand what he's saying. And I think it takes asking a lot of questions but then also getting it wrong.
Speaker 1:I think we put an emphasis on I have to hear the voice of God. I've got to get this right. I think God puts the emphasis on I want you to come near to me.
Speaker 2:So good yeah.
Speaker 1:If the priority was you hearing the orders and walking out the orders, I think God would approach this differently. But the point is not so much that, as it is, I really want you to draw near to me, I want you to be close, I want you to lean in and so when we understand that, we can then understand okay, he's going to speak in a whisper, he's going to speak sometimes in parables and riddles, not so that we are confused, but so that we lean in to hear him better, so that we, like you were saying, ask questions in to hear him better, so that we, like you were saying, ask questions so that we don't just hear from him and then we're off and running, but we take his voice as an invitation into a conversation that he wants to have. So now, it's not me listening for God to tell me to do something and then I go do it, but it's me listening. The God of the universe is speaking to me and in a similar way in our marriage.
Speaker 2:If we have a misunderstanding and a miscommunication, it doesn't mean that we break relationship and now we're not talking anymore or that I start to not trust you because we had a misunderstanding. I actually try to lean in deeper, ask more questions and oftentimes with the Lord, I think there's such a fear of making a mistake and then when we do, we pull back and we stop asking questions and we stop drawing near and pursuing that. Just growth in communication, yeah.
Speaker 1:Let me interject some scripture in here to back up what you're saying, because it's so good Psalm 25, verse 14. The secret counsel of the Lord is for those who fear making mistakes.
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:The secret counsel of the Lord is for those who fear him. So we're not afraid of making mistakes, we're not afraid of getting it wrong, we're not afraid of missing it. We turn our attention to him and we're in awe of him. We fear the Lord and because of that he shares his secrets with us.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:One of my other favorite verses on this topic is Psalm 32. Psalm 32, verse eight what a promise. I will instruct you and teach you in the way you should go. I will counsel you with my loving eye upon you. So good, he's not some aloof distant, far off. God. He's entering into our situation, like Psalm says. He's intimately acquainted with all of our ways and he counsels us with his loving eye upon us. He speaks to us, he shares his heart with his loving eye upon us.
Speaker 2:I love that so good.
Speaker 1:And then, of course, we can't talk about hearing from God without John 10,.
Speaker 1:Jesus saying I'm the good shepherd, his sheep know his voice. He says this, john 10,. I'll begin in verse five. A stranger no. It's back in verse four, when he puts all his own sheep outside. He goes ahead of them, speaking as a good shepherd, and the sheep follow him because they know his voice. His sheep know his voice. However, a stranger, they simply will not follow. They'll flee from him because they don't know the voice of strangers.
Speaker 1:The reality is, when we begin walking with Jesus, he is a stranger to us and we don't yet know his voice. He's a good shepherd. He understands our frame, he knows that we are his sheep, but he also understands where on the journey we are in terms of our ability to understand his voice, to discern his voice. So, because he's good, he speaks to us where we are, knowing that in the beginning it will sound like the voice of a stranger and we'll get confused. Is that my voice? Is that my imagination? Is that you, god?
Speaker 1:But he knows our frame and he's going to meet us where we are. But, it's the important thing, he's not going to leave us where we are. He's going to meet us where we are, with the intention of taking us where he's going and where he's going is well, like you and I, 20 years now, we've been doing this. We don't need to speak to each other the same way we did when we first started dating. Thankfully, we've been doing this. We don't need to speak to each other the same way we did when we first started dating, right, thankfully, yeah, and jesus doesn't want that either. As we walk with him on this journey, as we get to know him in his voice more so, the intention is not to leave us the same where he found us on day one, but to bring us to that place where he can just look at us with a look in his eye or a particular nuance in his voice, and we know what he's saying.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's good.
Speaker 1:You want to bring up that Elijah thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so this morning Neil and I went out surfing and I was out.
Speaker 1:We got hammered.
Speaker 2:Yes, really bad.
Speaker 1:I feel like I have half the Pacific Ocean in my head right now. Yes, same, really bad. I feel like I have half the Pacific Ocean in my head right now.
Speaker 2:Yes, same. But as I was out in the still water and just kind of sitting on the board no-transcript, I can speak softly, you know and I was like, of course you know, my mind was kind of on us having this conversation today, and so when we got in from surfing I thought, oh, I need to look up the passage where Elijah is fleeing from Jezebel, and it says that God comes to him in a still small voice, and so I was sitting with it this morning, and so I was sitting with it this morning and I was, you know. It says that Elijah fled to Mount Horeb, which is the mount of God, and it was called this because this was a mountain of encounter. And so Elijah knew this, everybody around him knew this, and so I picture Elijah, terrified, desperate to encounter the Lord and hear his voice like knowing I need help.
Speaker 2:So he runs to this mountain where Moses encountered God in ways that you can't deny that God was there the thunderings, the lightnings, like the presence of the Lord. So Elijah runs to this place and he doesn't encounter God in the earthquake or the fire, or the wind, and you know these are all ways that God showed up to a prior generation with fire, the burning bush, and it got Moses's attention. But God didn't choose to speak to Elijah that way. He chose to speak to him with a still small voice and Elijah knew it, and it was that voice that brought him out of the cave where he could have a conversation with the Lord, so good.
Speaker 1:So it was an invitation into a conversation.
Speaker 2:It was and it actually to me was an encouragement. You know was and it actually to me was an encouragement. You know, god can speak however he wants to, but we can't assume, because he's spoken a certain way to a prior generation or because he's spoken a certain way to you, that that's what I need to expect and it's part of that relationship, and it's part of that relationship us learning how is he communicating to me and walking that out so we don't miss it, because we're looking for the way that he speaks to you.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I want to point out something. I picked this up today off the bookshelf. I got this man 15 some years ago. It's a book I would highly recommend.
Speaker 1:It's by Jack Deere. It's called Surprised by the Voice of God, and I remember this book. It helped me so much when you and I were making a transition from a relationship with God that was solely focused on the Bible into a life of the spirit, where not only is he speaking in his written word, but he is also speaking to us through his Holy Spirit, the indwelling spirit of God within a man, revealing the mysteries of God to the man. And that was a huge transition in our life. And I remember being so afraid of being deceived. I remember being afraid of getting it wrong, being in error, all these things. And I found this book by a man named Jack Deere, who also came out of a similar conservative denominational background, like we did, and so I felt like I could trust his voice. He, like he, spoke our language. And then this book helped me so much. So I would recommend this to anyone who's wanting to learn and grow in discerning the voice of God speaking of God's humility, and God speaking in whispers. Jack Deere says this God's humility is both a blessing and a very great problem for us.
Speaker 1:A blessing because his humility leads him to fellowship with people as low as we are. So he humbles himself to come down to our level, wrap himself in flesh, become a man, enter into our situation and speak our language. This is his humility. It's a problem for us because his humility leads him to come to us in ways that make it easy for us to reject him. It is so good, it's easy to have the burning bush encounter. Yeah, it's easy to have the burning bush encounter. Yeah, it's easy to have the angelic visitation and be like, okay, that clearly was God. But when he humbles himself to speak in a dream or a whisper, or just that internal knowing when you're reading scripture, just that internal knowing when you're reading scripture, when he speaks in such humble, meek, gentle ways, it's easy for us to disregard it, ignore it, outright reject it. This is the tension of being kingdom people.
Speaker 2:Yeah, these are his ways.
Speaker 1:And then Jack Geer writes this, speaking about how the birth of Jesus was an incredible act of humility, obviously, but also who was there to experience the birth of the Messiah? The humble in the land, the meek and lowly shepherds out in this manger? The religious leaders of the day did not experience the coming of their Messiah. It was those who had a humility about them that did so. With that in mind, he writes this. Desperate circumstances, like Elijah running away from Jezebel, whether driven to it to his voice through desperate circumstances or having acquired it through careful cultivation, the quality of humility is essential for hearing the voice of God. That is so good that is so good.
Speaker 1:So let's summarize Perfect Humility, yeah, understanding. Summarize Perfect Humility, yeah, understanding that he is a humble God. He's going to speak in humble ways. We ourselves must have humility about us and not expecting the burning bush or the angelic visitation to be the only primary way that God speaks to his people. It's not yeah, it's whispers to be the only primary way that God speaks to his people. It's not.
Speaker 2:It's whispers and even humility enough to be willing to get it wrong, because I think it takes a really humble person to risk getting something wrong and trusting that God's good enough, like his goodness is greater than my mistake. When my heart is pure and it takes humility, that's like I'm probably going to mess up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you know, yeah, humility, intimacy, so that leaning in being the priority being drawn into that conversation being a priority asking questions, I was going to add to that.
Speaker 2:Ask a lot of questions. Don't assume that you know what God is saying. Ask him a lot of questions.
Speaker 1:Tell that story of when we moved to California and the Lord spoke something to you. You assumed one thing in hindsight yeah.
Speaker 2:So when we moved out to California, our, we had none of our things. Our house was it echoed. It was so empty, like no table and chairs, I mean very empty home, and I could feel this internal agitation, this internal agitation. I want to make a home, I want to have a place of rest.
Speaker 2:I was ready to settle and the Lord spoke to me one day and said you need to be okay or learn how to sit in this emptiness. And it really was an invitation from the Lord sit in an empty space and let me fill this space. And so I knew two things right away I'm not to go out and buy furniture Praise God I couldn't have done it anyway but I wasn't to go out and buy furniture, um, and then the second thing was be okay with emptiness in ministry, because we had nothing to do but be together at home. And so I was like, okay, I can do that. I asked no questions. I'm like I have your orders. Now I'm off and running.
Speaker 2:And I didn't realize. I found out the hard way. I would say that part of what the Lord, if I would have asked, I would have known, but part of what he wanted me to also sit in was an emptiness in relationship and not try to fill our life with close, intimate friendships too quickly, because we had left a place where those intimate friendships were there and Now they weren't, and so that was this empty space. And but he wanted to fill that space first with himself, so that the things that were brought into that space would be healthy and whole. And if I would have asked questions I would have known, but I just I didn't ask and he used the mistake to grow me up into knowing his voice better and learning to ask more questions.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's so important, trusting that we can ask him questions. He's not afraid of the question, he's not offended at the question. Yeah, I mean, if you look at scripture, jesus himself was constantly teaching through the questions.
Speaker 2:Yeah, he asked a lot.
Speaker 1:He would use the questions to pull things out of people, and I think one of the reasons is he's teaching us his nature. We can ask questions to pull things out of him again because it's that interaction that he wants with us, that intimate encounter with him, that matters so much more than getting it right.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Paul says in second Corinthians two, I think it is he always leads us in triumph.
Speaker 2:He's going to cause us to get it right.
Speaker 1:Romans 8, 28. He's going to cause it to work out for good, the priority, if we see it this way, being Jesus. I want to be with you. I hear your voice, I'm not sure that's you and then using that as an invitation to lean into him more, draw closer to him, mission accomplished.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's what he wants, yeah.
Speaker 1:The outcome. He's going to take care of it. Yeah, so to tie it all together with maybe a couple of the bullet points, this big one being and which initially wanted us to, or provoked us to have this conversation anyway was there's no quick fix to hearing the voice of god. It's, it's part of a journey, it's part of growing in maturity, it's part of learning. So just settle in for the long haul, enjoy the ride and get to know his voice, and and and don't be discouraged if there are mistakes. Maybe that would be a second bullet point there will be mistakes, but that's okay.
Speaker 1:He's good. He's the good shepherd. He knows our frame. He counsels us with his loving eye upon us.
Speaker 2:It's part of the mistakes, are part of us learning what is his heart and his nature and what's not, and that's we have a lifetime of exploration. When it comes to knowing the heart of God, that should be exciting. Nobody ever arrives at. I know everything about him and I know everything about his voice, and now I'm on cruise control. We get more steady, you know, but it's, we have a lifetime to search him. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Third point would be humility. He's humble, we should also be humble. It's the, it's the humble, it's the meek, it's the lowly. We're the first to receive his voice. So remain in that posture of humility. And then fourth would be questions.
Speaker 2:Yeah, ask lots of questions.
Speaker 1:Ask lots. And then fourth would be questions. Yeah, ask lots of questions, ask lots of questions. So when we think that the lord is speaking something to us, lean in, ask those questions, which leads to maybe a fifth point would be have people in your life who you can also ask questions to yeah so someone who's discipling you, pastoral voices, friends that are maybe a little bit further along in their walk with Jesus than you are, who you can bounce these questions off of?
Speaker 1:Hey, I feel like Jesus is saying this to me. What do you think about that? Yeah, yeah, and then in that, in that multiple voices of counsel man, there's so much wisdom in that. So how many is it? Four, five, six points?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I I would say that the like overarching thing of this all is just to kind of take a deep breath and exhale and know that the Lord because we are all so different and so varied he communicates with us in ways that we personally can understand. So just because he communicates with you in a certain way doesn't mean that that's the way that he's going to communicate with me, and if I stay so focused on hearing his voice the way that you do, I'm going to miss it in the way that he wants to communicate to me.
Speaker 1:So true, yeah, we even see that with our kids.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Like we can't talk to Layla the same way we talk to Asa.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's so true yeah.
Speaker 1:Awesome, this is fun. Should we do it again?
Speaker 2:Yeah, let's, it was fun. Should we do it again? Yeah, let's, it was fun. It was like talking to my best friend About my best friend.
Speaker 1:About your best friend.