Ep 24: Siobhan O'Donnell - Floor manager

Siobhan O’Donnell is an exceptional Floor Manager with decades of experience working on some of the UK’s most iconic television moments. Siobhan shares jaw-dropping anecdotes, from the time she had to literally crawl past dthe Queen to get to the Prime Minister, to wrangling the Teletubbies on set, and even the nerve-wracking moment she had to tell Cilla Black that someone forgot to press record.

We talk about making your way up the floor managing ladder, why you shouldn’t wait for your predecessor to retire and what exactly the gallery expects of you as the eyes and ears on the ground. Don’t forget to rate, comment, and subscribe!

You can find the Facebook runners group here

This episode is a must-listen for anyone fascinated by what it takes to bring live TV to life and keep the show on track—no matter what chaos unfolds on set.

Recorded by Ashley Golder - https://ashleygolder.tv/
Instagram @tvmakerspod
Email: Podcast@tvmakers.co.uk

Artwork by Benjamin Leon  -
Instagram: @benleondraws
Website:  www.benleondraws.com

Transcript

Automatically Generated Transcription

00:00:03:04 - 00:00:25:14
Ashley Golder
Welcome back to TV makers. I'm Ashley Gaudet, and in each episode I dive into the role of a leading industry professional, uncovering what they actually do and most importantly, how they do it so that we can learn from their experience before taking that next step ourselves. It's like mentorship, but without the awkward office coffee chats or accidentally scheduling the zoom.

00:00:25:14 - 00:00:55:24
Ashley Golder
For 7 a.m. this week, I'm joined by floor manager extraordinaire Siobhan O'Donnell. We cover everything from Teletubbies to Eurovision, with a side of crawling past the Queen to tug on Tony Blair's trousers before he makes a political faux pas. Yeah, you're going to want to stay around for that one. We talk about making your way up the floor, managing ladder, why you shouldn't wait for your predecessor to retire, and what exactly the gallery expects of you as the eyes and ears on the ground.

00:00:56:01 - 00:01:13:14
Ashley Golder
Remember, don't forget to rate, subscribe and comment. Let me know what you found useful and what you want more of. But for now, here's my chat with floor manager Siobhan O'Donnell. Siobhan. Welcome along to TV makers. Thank you for joining me in Hove.

00:01:13:19 - 00:01:16:02
Siobhan O'Donnell
Yes, thank you for welcome me to your beautiful flat.

00:01:16:04 - 00:01:39:09
Ashley Golder
Now I'm excited for this interview because being a floor manager is kind of what inspired me to get into TV. My first job in TV was Strictly Come Dancing. I was a runner. I had no idea what I wanted to do. And then I saw Al Conley for managing Strictly Come Dancing, and I thought it looked great. And after then it was like, okay, I want to be a floor manager.

00:01:39:09 - 00:01:54:16
Ashley Golder
That's exactly what I want to do. It looks a lot of fun. And then somehow turned into a director from there. But that was the spark that lit the TV life for me. So I'm very excited to talk to you. Siobhan about floor managing.

00:01:54:18 - 00:02:16:16
Siobhan O'Donnell
Okay. Yeah. Well, you mentioned, Al Conley there. The legend. He learned everything he knows from me. We joke about that. I think that's quite a common reaction, actually, because I think, certainly for audience members as well, it's one of those things where they go to a studio for the first time and they can't see the gallery, they can't hear what's going on.

00:02:16:18 - 00:02:35:08
Siobhan O'Donnell
They can watch the cameras moving around. But the sort of point of contact all the time is that they sort of see this person going in and talk to the talent and queuing up the applause and calling for silence and everything, and they sort of think, oh, that person looks really important. I quite like that.

00:02:35:08 - 00:02:45:07
Ashley Golder
Really important. And always looked like they knew everyone's job. And I thought that was really impressive. And al used to be your assistant.

00:02:45:10 - 00:03:06:22
Siobhan O'Donnell
He did. He did actually. Yes. I'm Al when he was, he was a runner at the London studio. So I think on television. And he was always, always really keen on the, on the floor managing. And he was an excellent runner and then he. Yeah, he became an assistant floor manager and, he assisted me on a lot of jobs.

00:03:06:24 - 00:03:08:08
Siobhan O'Donnell
Yeah. Good times.

00:03:08:10 - 00:03:30:14
Ashley Golder
Well, I mean, al, if you're listening to this, thank you for inspiring me to get into TV. Sorry that I didn't take up the floor managing. But enough about al. This is about you seven and your job as a floor manager. So, first of all, for those who don't know what a floor manager is, can you give me, like, an elevator pitch and a rough breakdown of your CV?

00:03:30:15 - 00:03:31:16
Ashley Golder
What have you been involved in?

00:03:31:17 - 00:03:51:01
Siobhan O'Donnell
Had TV works for those who, are new to this kind of thing is that if you were in a studio situation, you have a gallery which contains your director vision mixer. Producer is often in there. Sound is monitored from there, and they are watching through the eyes of the cameras so they can only see what the camera can see.

00:03:51:03 - 00:04:11:07
Siobhan O'Donnell
So a director, if they want something to happen, queues or things moved and all the rest of it, they can't physically go and do it. So basically they, they convey all their instructions to you and you feed it out to the various departments. That is basically the rolling in the studio very slightly on location. So that's the job of a floor manager.

00:04:11:12 - 00:04:14:10
Siobhan O'Donnell
Also we are kind of across health and safety.

00:04:14:13 - 00:04:23:18
Ashley Golder
So being the boss of everything that might be happening on set up in the studio where the director can't get involved physically themselves. Yeah.

00:04:23:18 - 00:04:30:20
Siobhan O'Donnell
I mean, basically if if it's happening on the studio floor, it should really be fed through the, through the floor manager so we know what's going on.

00:04:30:22 - 00:04:34:22
Ashley Golder
So that's a floor manager. What is under your belt for your CV.

00:04:34:24 - 00:04:42:16
Siobhan O'Donnell
From the days I worked on the, sort of big Saturday night shows, there were things like Blind date, surprise, surprise, Barry Love.

00:04:42:16 - 00:04:44:01
Ashley Golder
I loved Blind Date.

00:04:44:01 - 00:05:01:03
Siobhan O'Donnell
It was. I mean, it was required viewing. Wasn't a big, big show at the time. And then when I left, I moved on to, I did quite a few shows for Granada, things like Stars in Their eyes. And there was a lot of new shows coming out of there. And then I moved on to Teletubbies. I did Teletubbies for five years.

00:05:01:03 - 00:05:02:01
Siobhan O'Donnell
Can you believe.

00:05:02:01 - 00:05:06:06
Ashley Golder
We might have to talk about Teletubbies? How do you floor managed telly?

00:05:06:08 - 00:05:28:10
Siobhan O'Donnell
With difficulty. But there wasn't any four of them, so, So I moved on to done a lot of award shows. Brit Awards, MTV Awards, several years, Laureus done a few BAFTAs and, then things like I've moved into sport. So I do a lot of things for Premier League and stuff for the Olympics. So the Olympic closing ceremony.

00:05:28:10 - 00:05:29:04
Ashley Golder
2012.

00:05:29:04 - 00:05:49:06
Siobhan O'Donnell
2012 for you to focus on that. I love doing the big events, the sort of BBC events, world War one, World War two, just on the D-Day landings. I did the Duke's funeral and the Queen's funeral. Well, it's just a Royal Variety and that's what I really love, just having your fingers in lots and lots of.

00:05:49:08 - 00:05:52:06
Ashley Golder
I mean, a big one. I think you missed Eurovision a Eurovision.

00:05:52:06 - 00:05:56:17
Siobhan O'Donnell
How can I forget? Sorry. Eurovision. Yes, yes, probably the biggest, probably.

00:05:56:17 - 00:06:03:02
Ashley Golder
The biggest show. Live show I under the Olympics. Arguably.

00:06:03:02 - 00:06:06:22
Siobhan O'Donnell
Yes. And it did involve a lot of us. And I'm not saying that I was,

00:06:06:24 - 00:06:07:15
Ashley Golder
The single.

00:06:07:15 - 00:06:31:22
Siobhan O'Donnell
One. It was a big, big team of us. That was great as well, because we often work, you know, solely or maybe with a couple of assistants. So actually, when you do shows like Eurovision, all humans, it's really nice to get a team of you together. And, that's when it. That's the joy of live television.

00:06:31:22 - 00:06:34:15
Siobhan O'Donnell
You all doing a little bit, and it all comes together.

00:06:34:17 - 00:06:52:07
Ashley Golder
Absolutely. I mean, TV is always a teamwork. We always say it. And we'll be talking more about your team, for your full managing team, your asms assistant floor managers. And your biggest shows like Eurovision later, you also, you're also the admin for a Facebook group.

00:06:52:07 - 00:06:54:00
Siobhan O'Donnell
People in TV runners.

00:06:54:00 - 00:06:59:05
Ashley Golder
People in TV colon runners. Why?

00:06:59:07 - 00:07:42:03
Siobhan O'Donnell
Well, I got involved. I was asked by a couple of the other admins, to join because they were retiring and moving on. But I have to say, I really enjoyed my job and my my time in the TV industry. I've actually, you know, absolutely loved it. Passionate about television. I think it is changing and it's just helping new entrants to maybe navigate that change because the jobs that they possibly would have been doing ten, 15 years ago may not exist or the opportunities for those have been contracted, you know, very much so it's just to give advice, helping with the CBS, obviously working in TV, as long as I have, you know, a look,

00:07:42:03 - 00:08:03:00
Siobhan O'Donnell
I know a lot of people and I can point them in the right direction. There's not enough jobs for everybody. That's what worries me. But I think the people who really want to make it, if you persevere, there will be a place for you. It just might not necessarily be where you might have thought at the beginning of your journey, if that makes sense.

00:08:03:02 - 00:08:36:12
Ashley Golder
But you do a great job. I had meaning, it is our word. We will come on to the Facebook group again later. But yeah, if you've not seen it already, people in TV colon runners give it a follow. There's always some great advice. Or feel free to give you advice if you already in the industry. When I was inspired by Mr. Al Connolly from strictly to want to become a floor manager, it did seem like they knew everyone's job in order to manage expectations almost.

00:08:36:12 - 00:09:05:22
Ashley Golder
You know how long it would take to re rig a light, how long it would take to get the orchestra in, how long it would take to find a presenter, whatever it might be, technical or not technical, it felt like they knew everybody's role and how to do it. And then I thought maybe, naively, in order to know that I should go to university and do a TV production course now that I'm through it.

00:09:05:24 - 00:09:19:07
Ashley Golder
I personally am not sure I took too much out of that university course. I don't believe you need to go to university to be in TV. No one's ever asked me for my degree. If you have similar advice, do you need to go to university at all to to be a floor manager?

00:09:19:11 - 00:09:44:20
Siobhan O'Donnell
Absolutely not. I'm actually quite worried about the whole sort of, media and TV production degrees. I'm not sure they, they fulfill what people think they're going to get out of them and the like, as you said, you assumed you'd come out and you would have all of this knowledge about everybody's job in TV. And actually, the opposite is true because you actually work in very small groups.

00:09:44:20 - 00:10:07:22
Siobhan O'Donnell
So, you know, one of you who's camera operator, one of you is a director for the day, and, you know, this isn't you just isn't how TV works. There's also, you know, 20 to 30,000 media graduates coming, out every single year. And there just isn't the room in the industry to absorb them all.

00:10:07:22 - 00:10:24:12
Ashley Golder
The university, let's face it, is useful for some people, whether or not it's moving out of your parents house, going to London, going to Manchester or wherever, that that big city vibe is for you, where you want to learn your craft. You know it is useful for some people, but it's not a requirement.

00:10:24:13 - 00:11:05:14
Siobhan O'Donnell
It's not a requirement. My advice genuinely, to anybody who says, right, that's for me. I want to go into television. I would genuinely say, don't do, a production degree. I would go to a university that is in one of the hubs. So I would go London if you can afford it. Cardiff. Really good. Bristol, Manchester, Glasgow I would go, I do my degree in history or whatever your best subject is, and I would join the filmmaking society, get involved in any projects, volunteer to work on the student films because they're always looking for people in student films.

00:11:05:16 - 00:11:30:20
Siobhan O'Donnell
While you're there, try and get some running work. Learn to drive. The most important. And I think if you did all those things after three years, you would come out in a really strong position. You'd have a degree that would give you some leverage. Actually, most of the runners that I work with now, they've got degrees in history, politics, natural history, zoology, anything like that.

00:11:30:22 - 00:11:41:03
Siobhan O'Donnell
I think you, I just feel you're one step ahead, just much more useful. I think you've got something else that is another string to your bow. Rather than having put all your eggs in one basket.

00:11:41:03 - 00:12:11:01
Ashley Golder
Yeah, I'd agree you don't need the TV production university degree, but if you do want the university experience, then there are those other routes. I think that's great advice. So when it comes to film editing, then the point of TV makers as a podcast is yes, for new entrants, but also people looking to make that step up. So your assistant floor managers wanting to be that coveted floor manager in charge of the show, what was that jump for you from AFM to floor manager.

00:12:11:03 - 00:12:22:09
Siobhan O'Donnell
First, time you get a chance to do it is usually if your senior floor manager can't do one of the days on a program that you you've been working on.

00:12:22:09 - 00:12:27:15
Ashley Golder
So so you're suggesting maybe just trip them on a little.

00:12:27:17 - 00:12:46:09
Siobhan O'Donnell
Yeah. And it is literally that. So sometimes you might be doing a show that is recorded over a couple of days, and there might be a rehearsal day and they have to step out for a meeting or something and they're like, oh, could you run the rehearsal? And you're like, oh my God, please don't leave me. It's

00:12:46:11 - 00:12:47:10
Ashley Golder
It's nerve wracking.

00:12:47:16 - 00:13:17:23
Siobhan O'Donnell
It's absolutely nerve wracking. But yeah, a gentle introduction that was so lovely because you'd go and run the rehearsal a couple of times and then, oh, I can't do the the Wednesday. And it's like, oh, I get my chance, I get my credit. And then you say you do 1 or 2 of a series and then maybe a year later the new series comes around and your senior floor manager has moved on to something else, or there's something else that they want to do, and they look around and they go, what do you like to do it?

00:13:18:00 - 00:13:20:11
Siobhan O'Donnell
And that's basically how it happened for me.

00:13:20:11 - 00:13:24:20
Ashley Golder
What are the main differences, then, between an AFM and A and an FM?

00:13:24:22 - 00:13:50:01
Siobhan O'Donnell
Well, the AFM is part of the initial process. So during the day they are meeting and greeting and they've got they know everything that's going on with all of the moving parts and they know where the presenter is, what time they've arrived, what dressing room they're in. It's all the logistics backstage when the extras are arriving. If you've got children involved, they'll talk to the Chaperons and make sure they know when they need to have their break.

00:13:50:01 - 00:13:53:01
Siobhan O'Donnell
So they they feed you all of that information.

00:13:53:05 - 00:13:54:02
Ashley Golder
Feed the floor manager.

00:13:54:03 - 00:13:57:06
Siobhan O'Donnell
Yes. Yep. Yeah. Bring your tea. Obviously.

00:13:57:08 - 00:13:58:07
Ashley Golder
Don't forget the tea.

00:13:58:07 - 00:13:59:11
Siobhan O'Donnell
Or two pack movie.

00:13:59:16 - 00:14:01:18
Ashley Golder
Is made on tea.

00:14:01:20 - 00:14:27:21
Siobhan O'Donnell
Yeah. So very much as an AFM you are the enabler. The floor manager will in that situation be on the floor with with the presenter running the show and communicating with the director. As an AFM, you probably wouldn't be talking to the director that much. Maybe just to update if they say, you know, how how far away is so-and-so such and such you'll be, you'd be in makeup next to the chair and go, five minutes, ten minutes, whatever.

00:14:27:21 - 00:14:37:03
Siobhan O'Donnell
So, yeah, logistics, feeding all your information to the floor manager and, just being on hand to do whatever's needed.

00:14:37:05 - 00:14:48:14
Ashley Golder
So there's a lot of responsibility on the AFM. When you become a floor manager, can you sort of breathe a sigh of relief and just settle into it or is there still a lot of responsibility on your shoulders?

00:14:48:17 - 00:15:07:07
Siobhan O'Donnell
Well, you're across it, but if you've got a good team, you will trust them to do their job and to keep you informed. There's literally nothing you can do. Somebody isn't there. If somebody you know, they're literally not there and they're not in the building, they're in a taxi. They've just arrived at Heathrow. There's not lot you can do.

00:15:07:07 - 00:15:29:22
Siobhan O'Donnell
And as the floor manager, then you would work out with the director, right? What can we usefully do? How can we use this time? We haven't got our main guest. So let's rehearse. Let's do everything else around it so that when they do arrive, we can hopefully just wisdom straight in and we've rehearsed everything else around it. And so therefore we've got got time to do that.

00:15:30:01 - 00:15:36:02
Siobhan O'Donnell
So yeah, lots of responsibility. But I think it's, it is that whole cog in the wheel isn't it.

00:15:36:03 - 00:15:49:08
Ashley Golder
Especially on those massive shows. You know, you were talking about Eurovision, the Brits, Emmy Awards I mean surprise, surprise, blind date, etc.. How did those shows shape how you floor manage?

00:15:49:10 - 00:16:11:20
Siobhan O'Donnell
Oh gosh. Well this I'll give you an example actually, because surprise, surprise was such fun to work on. The whole, premise of it was that people would be surprised whether in the audience or they used to be the sort of I haven't seen my grandmother of or, you know, for however long. And then they walk on.

00:16:11:22 - 00:16:33:19
Siobhan O'Donnell
So there's a lot of subterfuge and, you know, you had to know the story and who was going to be where. It was all in the planning. So you had to make sure that the couple were in the studio or in their seats before you could bring grandmother around or so. Definitely. A show like that would definitely, hone your planning skills.

00:16:33:19 - 00:16:56:16
Siobhan O'Donnell
And you have to say with your AFM, right? You don't move until I tell you over comms or, you know, blah, blah, blah. And then suddenly one of the couples says, oh, I'm really sorry. Do you mind if I use the bathroom? Could you just hang on a second, please? Because we know that grandma is in the corridor right outside the blue, just things like that.

00:16:56:16 - 00:17:23:23
Siobhan O'Donnell
So it's being across all the moving parts with something like Eurovision. It is a massive, massive juggernaut because, it starts and it literally everything has to be lined up. So you are relying on everybody down the chain, making sure somebody has got the microphone that they've been might that they've been briefed that they are standing in the right position.

00:17:24:04 - 00:17:41:17
Siobhan O'Donnell
So it is a whole chain all the way along. It's something you discuss at the beginning of, of the run when you're building the show, building it up, and then once you get so far in, it's a well-oiled machine and you just relying on every single person to do their job.

00:17:41:19 - 00:17:59:13
Ashley Golder
But what happens if that goes wrong? Like, what do you do in that scenario? It's Eurovision. And actually you are running a bit late or you're not sure if someone's got the microphone. What what is your role in that moment?

00:17:59:15 - 00:18:24:06
Siobhan O'Donnell
I think Eurovision is quite a bad example for that because because it doesn't happen. Well, it just doesn't happen because it is so well staffed and there's checks on these double checks and there's, you know, it's almost literally impossible for somebody not to come in with a microphone because you've got three people checking it. I mean, literally short of them throwing it down the second they step on, the, on the side other shows.

00:18:24:06 - 00:18:33:13
Siobhan O'Donnell
Yes. I mean, there's times when when somebody walks on without on the microphone, you just have to be on it and know where the sound person is so that they can run on with the microphone.

00:18:33:13 - 00:18:38:22
Ashley Golder
So then is it your job to find the person that there needs to enable that to work?

00:18:38:22 - 00:18:53:20
Siobhan O'Donnell
It really depends on where you are. So if you are on the stage and you are stood in the environs of a sound person, it would be if it's if they've left it at the bottom of the stairs, you'd radio your FM very quickly.

00:18:53:20 - 00:19:12:01
Ashley Golder
Yeah, I mean, that moves me on to what you think are the key responsibilities of a floor manager. Timing. We've talked about timing. Timing is, obviously a key one. What are the, what other attributes do you think a good floor manager needs to have?

00:19:12:03 - 00:19:49:03
Siobhan O'Donnell
I think the most important thing is your people skills. Okay. You can be dealing with all sorts of, talent. I don't like the word talent particularly, but we'll call it talent. All sorts of personalities and a film manager is often trying to persuade people to do things that they don't want to do, which sounds a bit counterintuitive, but it's always like, you know, we want to rehearse now or we're not quite ready or we haven't done this, so I haven't.

00:19:49:03 - 00:20:13:21
Siobhan O'Donnell
Oh yeah. It's all, yeah. And it's like just getting that juggernaut moving and getting all the pieces in there together. So people, skills, diplomacy, just being able to talk to people, being able to give a very clear note and sometimes that's translating what the director has said, they want to happen into something a little more palatable. That was absolutely awful.

00:20:13:21 - 00:20:23:18
Siobhan O'Donnell
Like, can't use that into can we just try that again? Yeah. Sometimes you blame a technical issue. Yeah. You know.

00:20:23:20 - 00:20:27:21
Ashley Golder
Yeah, we just had it. What was wrong with it? The poor sound people. Yeah, yeah.

00:20:27:23 - 00:20:29:01
Siobhan O'Donnell
I think I think I blamed a lot.

00:20:29:01 - 00:20:35:06
Ashley Golder
I've just had a mic issue. Yeah. Sound person is like, no, no we didn't. We always have. We need it again.

00:20:35:06 - 00:20:55:15
Siobhan O'Donnell
I had one. That's when I, it wasn't really working and we were sort of trying it again and yeah, we, we blame the other sort of camera focus and the camera off. Right. It just, you know. Oh, it's fine. Leave me be. Well, nothing wrong with it. It was. Oh, sorry. Just trying to wake, you know, it's like.

00:20:55:17 - 00:20:59:02
Ashley Golder
Yeah, we forgot to press record up in the corner and do that one more time.

00:20:59:02 - 00:21:11:07
Siobhan O'Donnell
Yeah. That's happened a few times as well. Yeah. A little, little voice comes from VTI. Am I supposed to be recording? Oh, that's a hard note. Going in and telling, the host that we've got to do the whole top of the show.

00:21:11:07 - 00:21:12:10
Speaker 3
Again.

00:21:12:12 - 00:21:14:07
Ashley Golder
Because it wasn't recorded. Yeah, that's how we.

00:21:14:07 - 00:21:15:23
Siobhan O'Donnell
Had to do that.

00:21:16:00 - 00:21:20:24
Ashley Golder
I mean, we obviously won't name the show unless you want to name the show.

00:21:21:01 - 00:21:23:10
Siobhan O'Donnell
It was on a blind date many years ago.

00:21:23:12 - 00:21:24:06
Ashley Golder
Yeah. We can name.

00:21:24:06 - 00:21:25:05
Siobhan O'Donnell
Yeah, we can name many.

00:21:25:05 - 00:21:27:20
Ashley Golder
Many years ago. Yeah. Wow.

00:21:27:22 - 00:21:28:09
Siobhan O'Donnell
Yeah.

00:21:28:09 - 00:21:34:23
Ashley Golder
What is that like hearing that. So you're on the floor. You can hear the gallery, I assume.

00:21:34:23 - 00:22:02:02
Siobhan O'Donnell
Yes. We've done the whole opening. So the, you know, the audience are all warmed up and still used to come out and do a little thing to the audience. And then. Right, we're ready. And then the, the iconic music would start, come out, come down, you know. Hello, ladies and gentlemen. We go quite far on actually, I think maybe the, the first picker had got her to come on probably, maybe ten minutes in.

00:22:02:04 - 00:22:22:24
Siobhan O'Donnell
Oh yeah. Yeah. And then suddenly a little voice sort of came through and said, am I supposed to be recording? I can't remember the exact words. And that was a moment's silence. And yeah, I had to sort of stop it. And, there's nothing you can do. You just have to say, I she's she's absolutely fine.

00:22:23:01 - 00:22:29:17
Siobhan O'Donnell
Absolutely fine. Just like I'm really sorry. Can we just go backstage for a moment and just explain, you know.

00:22:29:19 - 00:22:33:06
Ashley Golder
And it's your job at that point to do that? Yeah. Be the voice.

00:22:33:06 - 00:22:48:04
Siobhan O'Donnell
Yeah. And the producer would come out and obviously, you know, but actually not not probably. There's nothing you can do. You just have to move on. There's no time for a witch hunt there. It was a simple mistake. Somebody didn't hear Rodrigo, Lorde or whatever. And you just got to go, okay.

00:22:48:06 - 00:23:03:17
Ashley Golder
So your job as a floor manager, we're talking timing, rehearsals, people, diplomacy. You know, knowing what everyone's role is, as we've discussed earlier, making sure people know what they're doing, you know, the talent to show that they know why they're there.

00:23:03:18 - 00:23:04:07
Siobhan O'Donnell
Yeah.

00:23:04:09 - 00:23:06:18
Ashley Golder
Has anybody arrived not knowing why they're.

00:23:06:18 - 00:23:33:16
Siobhan O'Donnell
There and know a lot? Probably 70% of the time. Yeah. There was a time when, I was doing a show for BBC. It was, I think it was a Holocaust Memorial Day. It was a very serious, subject in some Westminster Hall, beautiful, beautiful building. The Queen, Duke of Edinburgh with, all of the politicians.

00:23:33:18 - 00:23:52:20
Siobhan O'Donnell
And we suddenly got word that, Tony Blair, who was then the Prime Minister, was coming straight from the airport and, but he would be there. He'd be there in plenty of time, plenty of time to be briefed. The idea was that the producer, the exec producer, was going to sort of brief them when they arrived.

00:23:52:22 - 00:23:59:04
Siobhan O'Donnell
And, the next thing we know, the Queen is arriving because they're always on time.

00:23:59:06 - 00:24:00:01
Ashley Golder
Always.

00:24:00:03 - 00:24:27:06
Siobhan O'Donnell
And, the message comes through that Tony Blair is going to be late. Nobody waits for the Queen. So we we we start the process. He arrives, manages to slip into the seats, which is right at the front. And he's got quite a key, role in the ceremony. So he follows the rabbi up, has a very important speech, and then he invites Her Majesty up to light a candle.

00:24:27:06 - 00:24:38:13
Siobhan O'Donnell
I think it was. And I realize he's got absolutely no idea what he knows. He's involved. He probably knows he's got to do a reading, but he doesn't know where he's got to go.

00:24:38:13 - 00:24:39:14
Ashley Golder
Oh, he's not being briefed.

00:24:39:14 - 00:24:40:12
Siobhan O'Donnell
He's not been briefed.

00:24:40:14 - 00:24:41:22
Ashley Golder
He was late. He's he's.

00:24:42:00 - 00:24:55:02
Siobhan O'Donnell
Late. He's just got got in the accept producers gone back to the gallery to watch everything on. And I thought oh my goodness, what am I going to do. So I wrote him a note.

00:24:55:04 - 00:24:55:17
Ashley Golder
Okay.

00:24:55:17 - 00:25:05:00
Siobhan O'Donnell
Back of a script. Yeah. Saying you know, you are after the rabbi here is your reading because I had a copy of the script.

00:25:05:00 - 00:25:05:21
Ashley Golder
Right.

00:25:05:23 - 00:25:38:11
Siobhan O'Donnell
When you have finished, invite Her Majesty to light the candle. Then go back to your seat and wrote it on a piece of paper. Okay. The skill then was getting it to him because he was sat maybe two seats away from the Queen, right on the front row of, all the dignitaries. And I literally had to crawl along, on my hands and knees, and I could see everybody looking at me as I was, you know.

00:25:38:13 - 00:25:43:18
Siobhan O'Donnell
But of course, the one person that wasn't looking at me was him because he was, you know, really.

00:25:43:20 - 00:25:45:09
Ashley Golder
Being a very attached.

00:25:45:11 - 00:26:03:11
Siobhan O'Donnell
It was that sort of thing as well. You know, I do I pass it along, but that it might go to the wrong person. It was a just nightmare. And in the end I sort of crawled and I managed to sort of grab hold of his trouser leg and pull it, and he looked down at me as if to say, what the hell are you doing?

00:26:03:11 - 00:26:15:08
Siobhan O'Donnell
And I held up this bit of paper, you know, sort of waved at him, and he was looking around. Anyway, he took it and he read it, and he sort of looked at me as if to say, okay, got it.

00:26:15:14 - 00:26:16:21
Ashley Golder
Oh my God.

00:26:16:23 - 00:26:24:23
Siobhan O'Donnell
And at that point, I think the rabbi had just finished and walked off and he got up and went.

00:26:25:01 - 00:26:28:20
Speaker 3
I was just and breathe.

00:26:29:00 - 00:26:31:12
Ashley Golder
And that was the year you invited by the Prime Minister.

00:26:31:13 - 00:26:36:13
Siobhan O'Donnell
Well, I do remember the director saying, I don't know how that happened, but thank you so much.

00:26:36:15 - 00:26:47:17
Ashley Golder
Wow. I mean, I personally I would want it to be with the security at that point, watching you crawl, crawling long rows away from the Queen, the Prime Minister. I wonder what they were thinking.

00:26:47:17 - 00:26:59:14
Siobhan O'Donnell
I don't think you get away with it now. I mean, it wasn't that long ago, but it was. Well, yeah, obviously it was private. It was well, it doesn't seem like very long ago, but yeah, you're right. I mean, can you imagine now?

00:26:59:16 - 00:27:25:13
Ashley Golder
So we're going above and beyond as a floor manager to make sure that people know what they are doing. What are the differences for you as a floor manager between a TV show, a TV studio show, for example, where everything is usually self-contained and a big event, you know, you mentioned that you, with one of the floor managers for the Queen's funeral, the Duke's funeral, you know, big events.

00:27:25:15 - 00:27:26:16
Ashley Golder
What are the differences?

00:27:26:16 - 00:28:00:02
Siobhan O'Donnell
Something like a big event is actually the Duke's funeral and the Queen's funeral. They are planned with such precision. It's incredible to watch. And the people that are organizing the military, the movements, the parades, we are there, as I suppose, a conduit between the the gallery, the director and the type they want to bring, obviously the best coverage to, to the world.

00:28:00:04 - 00:28:19:07
Siobhan O'Donnell
And so we get very involved in rehearsing the music. So we would work with the director of music and the choirs, just things like rehearsing people like, you know, the Archbishop of Canterbury, all the all the dignitaries that have speeches and readings and all of that sort of thing. This is something that they do every single day of their life.

00:28:19:07 - 00:28:42:09
Siobhan O'Donnell
They are used to standing at a pulpit and doing a reading, and all the rest of it. But something like, you know, funeral. They didn't they needed to be rehearsed because there's a lot of moving parts. So again, just physically meeting them, getting them into position, sound checked, making sure all the camera shots work so that they go away happy and confident that they know exactly what they're doing and that it's all going to work.

00:28:42:10 - 00:28:55:08
Siobhan O'Donnell
So just making sure that everybody knows what's going to happen and where their place in the proceedings is. The difficult part is how you get there and where you go when you finished.

00:28:55:10 - 00:29:10:09
Ashley Golder
Well, what about learning from other people's mistakes on TV makers? So what what are some of the biggest mistakes a floor manager could make that we should learn from so that we don't do that if we were to become a floor manager?

00:29:10:11 - 00:29:33:17
Siobhan O'Donnell
Okay, so letting time run away with you is so yeah, you're talking about responsibilities. One of the responsibilities, particularly nowadays where time is really, really squeezed, is not necessarily being strong enough. When you can see the schedule slipping away, I just make a point of just saying to the director, like, we should kind of be on scene for now or.

00:29:33:19 - 00:29:35:13
Ashley Golder
Oh, so this is to the director?

00:29:35:15 - 00:29:40:20
Siobhan O'Donnell
Yes. Well, sometimes it might be, it might be, it might be the producer who's.

00:29:40:22 - 00:29:41:05
Ashley Golder
Yeah.

00:29:41:09 - 00:29:54:23
Siobhan O'Donnell
Doing autocue changes. So like, you know, there's all sorts of reasons why time is you suddenly find yourself with a gap where nothing seems to be happening and, you know, it's up to you to sort of go right, to grab it and get it back on track.

00:29:55:00 - 00:30:09:00
Ashley Golder
I see in my head, for some reason, I thought maybe I know the taxi was late or hair and makeup don't have a particular, guest in yet. And and then it's your job to make sure that we stay on schedule. But now you also saying that you're managing up.

00:30:09:01 - 00:30:31:22
Siobhan O'Donnell
Yes. Because sometimes, you have to remember, you know, for example, if you are the producer, you are obsessed with the content. You know, you want to get the script right, you want to talk to your presenter, you want to talk to your guests, maybe whatever. You might lose sight of the fact that there's six set changes that need to happen.

00:30:31:24 - 00:31:02:20
Siobhan O'Donnell
There's 50 people to put through costume and makeup, and if we don't get a move on, could that discussion be done in half an hour when everybody's gone off to makeup and costume and we're turning around for the dress run, maybe they could have that discussion. Then. So it's just, you know, sometimes subtly suggesting, you know, could we do the autocue changes another time because you've got a whole studio sat there waiting and.

00:31:02:20 - 00:31:04:15
Ashley Golder
That's usually received. Well.

00:31:04:17 - 00:31:22:12
Siobhan O'Donnell
Yeah, I think so. I think so, yeah. I mean there might be a reason why you absolutely have to do it now. Yeah, because they need to rehearse it or whatever. But, you know, sometimes it's just a case of pointing out that we need to be started by four. Otherwise we're not going to be ready for a show at offset.

00:31:22:15 - 00:31:40:16
Ashley Golder
What's the relationship like between you and a director then at the moment, all we've spoken about actually is it's over. Talkback. So it's almost like the voice of God, right? But do you you ever get to see your director in real life? Do you actually get to prep and and talk with and discuss, or is it that you just get launched into it?

00:31:40:17 - 00:31:40:23
Ashley Golder
A bit of.

00:31:40:23 - 00:32:04:05
Siobhan O'Donnell
Both, actually. It really depends on the size of of the show and, whether they get prep days. I think increasingly now, you know, the director's time is is cut right down. There might be a couple of emails backwards or forwards, or they might give you a quick call and say, this is the run through. You know, I'm really worried about, starting on time because we've got such limited.

00:32:04:05 - 00:32:20:10
Siobhan O'Donnell
So when you get in, can you make sure that the band are absolutely ready to go? So it's really good to have a heads up, on something like that. So you're not just arriving on the morning and looking at the schedule and thinking, okay, where is everything? That if you've got a point of where they want to start, that's really good.

00:32:20:10 - 00:32:42:23
Siobhan O'Donnell
So I always ask a director, you know, first thing in the morning, right. What do you want to start up? What do you want to look at at first? Physically seeing them is quite an interesting one now, cause I think, I think a director should always come onto the floor in first thing. Just just say hello. Just so that people who don't know them just put a face to that voice in the stands.

00:32:43:00 - 00:33:03:12
Siobhan O'Donnell
But if you're working on a big show, they might be in a gallery or an OBE truck, which could be half a mile away. I mean, outside a big stadium, it's not practical for them to come in and out every time if the gallery's on the same floor, or sometimes if there's an issue that they'll pop in and out and say, oh, I'd like to do it like this, and that's quite nice as well when you've got that one.

00:33:03:18 - 00:33:29:17
Siobhan O'Donnell
But increasingly, and I've done shows where the director and producer aren't even there, they're 40 miles away in a gallery. Wow. And live sport is going a lot like that, that nowadays where, you know, you're producer and director are often remote, right. And again, this comes down to finance. It's an OBE truck is expensive and they can do it down the line.

00:33:29:17 - 00:33:44:14
Siobhan O'Donnell
So you turn up somewhere and actually it would be you and, you know, 4 or 5 camera shops, a presenter and all the rest of it, and they are literally miles away. So, that's a, that's a way the technology is changing.

00:33:44:16 - 00:34:05:07
Ashley Golder
Well, let's talk about communication then. Communication is key in those areas. And it's probably fair to say a floor manager's number one tool is your comms system, what we would call talkback. But you guys have a pretty hefty system usually, you know, as a runner you might get like a small Motorola radio and it's got like nine channels on it that you'll never touch.

00:34:05:07 - 00:34:17:03
Siobhan O'Donnell
You'll be on channel two and you'll just press a button. But you guys have a couple of buttons, if not maybe 3 or 4. Sometimes big headsets, big cans. What is going on in your ears?

00:34:17:03 - 00:34:22:03
Siobhan O'Donnell
The Bolero one, which is a system you're talking about. So I think on Eurovision, I think we had six channels.

00:34:22:03 - 00:34:22:21
Ashley Golder
Okay.

00:34:22:23 - 00:34:33:07
Siobhan O'Donnell
So that can be quite a challenge. So for a show like that you would have a feed of the director. So your usual, gallery to floor. So you can hear the director.

00:34:33:09 - 00:34:35:10
Ashley Golder
It's that constant or it's it's constant.

00:34:35:10 - 00:34:51:19
Siobhan O'Donnell
Yeah. Okay. So you have that open all the time. Channel one. You can talk directly to the director, on a big show that's got lots of moving parts. Your Olympics, your Eurovision, whatever. You would also have a feed of the show cooler.

00:34:51:21 - 00:34:52:14
Ashley Golder
Okay.

00:34:52:16 - 00:35:16:20
Siobhan O'Donnell
Because you have a show caller who is literally running the event. And if you imagine the director is capturing the action, but the show caller will be the person who initiates the action, the lighting, the lighting changes. Yeah. You know. Right. The moving horse comes in now, though you might also have a little earpiece that you can pop in to talk to somebody else.

00:35:17:00 - 00:35:34:22
Siobhan O'Donnell
So, for example, I would have a button I could talk to sound. Yeah. And I can say, hi, we're moving on. I'm going to need six, six mics, for the backing singers. Can we sort that out? Yep. Coming right up so I can talk directly to them. Don't have to run off, and find them.

00:35:35:02 - 00:35:42:06
Ashley Golder
But again, all the while, you're still hearing maybe the director interact. Yeah, yeah. The show called on your left ear. That's a lot of people in your head.

00:35:42:12 - 00:36:06:01
Siobhan O'Donnell
It is, it is. And again, it's something you have to get used to, and you only get used to it by listening to it. Right. And one thing that I am very, very strict on, if I've got runners or femmes or anything like that, is people taking their headphones off. When you talk to somebody, they put it round the neck and that's the time you can guarantee when you miss a really important piece of information.

00:36:06:01 - 00:36:10:12
Ashley Golder
There you go. That is the big no no. You're gonna have him in a floor manager.

00:36:10:14 - 00:36:12:14
Siobhan O'Donnell
And I would never do that. Oh, to be.

00:36:12:14 - 00:36:13:18
Ashley Golder
Fair, they wouldn't.

00:36:13:20 - 00:36:28:16
Siobhan O'Donnell
But but runners do because they they've never done it before. They put the headphones on for the first time. Oh. So it's so distracting. It's so annoying. So, you know, Oh, I'll just take it off. I talk to you and, you know, you have to keep it on.

00:36:28:17 - 00:36:52:01
Ashley Golder
So keep it on. Yeah. Has it been a time for a live broadcast or a live event where things have really started unraveling? I mean, you spoke about Tony Blair, but that you managed to rescue that one as it was happening. But anything that's falling apart, you can hear the director screaming, what is the flow, man? His role when things are burning around you.

00:36:52:03 - 00:37:13:11
Siobhan O'Donnell
It depends. If it's a live show, as opposed to a recorded show, then your response is it's slightly different. I'll give you an example. We were doing the Brits two years ago live show going out on ITV, performances back to back. We rehearsed it. Everybody knows what we're doing and I'm just trying to remember what it was.

00:37:13:11 - 00:37:41:08
Siobhan O'Donnell
It was a chain that got wrapped around a piece of machinery, which meant a certain set piece couldn't be lowered into position, which meant the next performance was compromised. Right. It wasn't going to work as we'd rehearsed it. And as I say, there's a lot of moving parts, and you don't know by not having that, but how it's got you can't say, oh, well, let's just do it without it, because there might be dancers that need to be seen on a certain piece of set or whatever.

00:37:41:10 - 00:37:55:07
Siobhan O'Donnell
When something like that happens, you are relying on your producer to come up with the solution. But as the floor manager. So, sticky was our person on the stage.

00:37:55:09 - 00:37:56:01
Ashley Golder
Sticky?

00:37:56:01 - 00:37:57:00
Siobhan O'Donnell
Sticky, yeah. That's it.

00:37:57:01 - 00:37:58:19
Ashley Golder
That's that's a person. Yeah. Okay.

00:37:58:22 - 00:38:22:15
Siobhan O'Donnell
Michael Matheson giving you a shout out. They are in a position to offer the only solution, because they are the only person would have the knowledge so they can go to the stage manager and go, can we move on to the next one? And they'll look and see whether it's physically possible to move that. So I think we have to move on to Stormzy, who I think was still in his pants in the dressing room and somebody had to bang on the door.

00:38:22:15 - 00:38:41:01
Siobhan O'Donnell
No, you're all, you know, and in the meantime we write what can we, what can we do? So the producer, we think you write, what have I got backed up, you know what can we go to? I was doing awards on on that one, so I was thinking, right, I'll just line up the next five people.

00:38:41:01 - 00:38:56:10
Siobhan O'Donnell
Yeah. So, you know, run into the crowd because they're on tables and pull them and go. You might be going on a bit earlier, might be going on. And so you you can offer the solution so you can come back and say, I've got the next five awards. So they'll go, right, let's just, let's just you do five awards, we do five awards.

00:38:56:10 - 00:39:18:00
Siobhan O'Donnell
And then hopefully the set will be changed over perfect. And we've got a ladder up. We've managed to undo the chain. So we've got somewhere that we can go right. We do a few awards. Brilliant. Right. We'll do the performance. We'll come back into another few awards and turn it around like that. So it's a case of you've probably got a, information that they won't have at that stage.

00:39:18:06 - 00:39:23:17
Siobhan O'Donnell
You would know what was wrong. And we need to do X, Y, and Z to sort that out.

00:39:23:21 - 00:39:38:23
Ashley Golder
I think that's what we go back to saying, that you are not the director's puppet because the director is powerless at that point. And if if you as a floor manager aren't thinking how to solve the solution, then then it's just not going to get solved.

00:39:39:00 - 00:39:47:00
Siobhan O'Donnell
Yeah, absolutely. And you just need that, you just need that space as well. And, and it's all about keeping calm as well.

00:39:47:06 - 00:40:06:17
Ashley Golder
So it's great to hear that you can have that autonomy and that problem solving in that that is a huge part of your job. Are there any points as a floor manager? Again, to give advice to people who might be stepping up that you have to say, no, that's not my monkey. That's not to do with me, you know, where do you set those boundaries?

00:40:06:22 - 00:40:39:04
Siobhan O'Donnell
There's quite a few instances maybe on, on a, on a big show where something might be asked for or questioned. So, for example, you might be doing a big performance and the band will arrive and they will say, actually we we don't want the, the pool or we're going to do a different number or whatever at that point, hand it over, because there have been people planning that show for months, and we turned up two days ago.

00:40:39:04 - 00:40:50:01
Siobhan O'Donnell
There's been discussions behind the suit. There's somebody staff job that's been building the show. So it's just not worth getting involved. That's that's literally when I would just say really not my back.

00:40:50:01 - 00:40:54:22
Ashley Golder
So anything to do with editorial realistically. Yeah. Changes you says.

00:40:54:23 - 00:40:56:10
Siobhan O'Donnell
Yes. Yes.

00:40:56:12 - 00:41:26:20
Ashley Golder
Well let's talk about prep time. Because in all of our roles, prep time is being squeezed, you know, often foolishly. We don't need prep time. Let's put that money on screen for something else. But that is when things go wrong. And prep time includes the risk assessment and health and safety. So as a floor manager, do you get prep time or do you just sort of wander up on day one, 30 minutes before a live broadcast?

00:41:26:22 - 00:41:48:21
Siobhan O'Donnell
No, not most of the time. You might get, as I said, you might get a few emails backwards and forwards. Production manager usually does the risk assessment. That is usually sent with the call sheet. Really important people read your call sheet. I can hear all the production managers go, yes, yes, thank you. The call sheet should have all the information on it that you need.

00:41:48:21 - 00:41:54:02
Siobhan O'Donnell
And it is really important because people just look at it and say, what time do I wrap? What time do I need to be there?

00:41:54:02 - 00:41:55:16
Ashley Golder
What's for lunch? Yeah.

00:41:55:18 - 00:42:14:23
Siobhan O'Donnell
When do I need to go for lunch? There's often a risk assessment, as a separate attachment, which nobody ever looks at. And again, you know, if you turn up and go, oh, I didn't know that there was smoke and winches and all the rest of it. So read, read the risk assessment. So I always do make a point of reading the risk assessment.

00:42:14:23 - 00:42:20:22
Siobhan O'Donnell
So I know. And then if I've got any questions I can always fire it back to the production manager or possibly the director. You know.

00:42:21:03 - 00:42:44:13
Ashley Golder
I mean, I think it's especially important for a floor manager to read the risk assessment. I mean, everyone should. Health and safety is everyone's job. But as a floor manager, you definitely should know, because that is where your knowledge comes in on what's happening, when's happening, what do you need? Do you need Saint John's Ambulance to be on stand by, you know, waiting in the wings?

00:42:44:13 - 00:43:02:11
Ashley Golder
I think there's a lot that a throw manager has to be across, and health and safety is one of them. But if you don't get the prep time and that prep time is being squeezed even more, I see that being compromised further.

00:43:02:13 - 00:43:20:19
Siobhan O'Donnell
Yeah, I mean, it it is difficult to turn up on something. And, you know, the first thing is we're going to do a stunt. Do we need crash mats? Hopefully this is all on on the risk assessment. If you haven't had that prep time then hopefully somebody else has. That's the only way that you can look at it.

00:43:20:21 - 00:43:46:15
Siobhan O'Donnell
Trying to do anything really complicated at the beginning of the day is always a problem, because you are always it's getting everything moving. You know, the first, the first turnover is always the worst. And if you've got something that involves 3040 moving parts, you know you need the car moved. You need to look up. It takes forever. And people, it's always more satisfying.

00:43:46:15 - 00:44:08:01
Siobhan O'Donnell
At least you've got something in the can. So I like if I've got any say over the schedule. I always like to just do something really simple. Couple pieces to camera. Let's get, all those itty bitty bits out the way. Let sound go off and do some, you know, while tracks. And then at least everybody feels we've done something.

00:44:08:01 - 00:44:20:01
Ashley Golder
It's like that army technique. I heard that the reason why the army, cadets are told to make the bed first thing in the morning is that it's the first thing that gives them that sense of achievement for the rest of the day.

00:44:20:05 - 00:44:21:19
Siobhan O'Donnell
Yeah, that's a good point.

00:44:21:21 - 00:44:25:17
Ashley Golder
So that's what you said about TV. Just do something easy and then everyone's on the same. Yeah.

00:44:25:18 - 00:44:37:15
Siobhan O'Donnell
And it just means that you, you know you've got to turn over time something something has, happened. If you're doing something complicated it might take to lunchtime. So you've actually got something in the can.

00:44:37:15 - 00:44:38:15
Ashley Golder
It's a bit.

00:44:38:17 - 00:45:05:11
Siobhan O'Donnell
Yeah. It is a bit demoralizing. And and also as well what I find is if you can distract the director a little bit to sort of say, why don't we go and shoot X, Y and Z, the close ups, the ladder? You can start the process for the complicated thing and they're not over your shoulder going, how long, how long, how long?

00:45:05:13 - 00:45:10:13
Siobhan O'Donnell
Because that is very, very frustrating.

00:45:10:15 - 00:45:20:08
Ashley Golder
So with everything that you said so far in this episode of being a floor manager, who would you say the role is not suited for?

00:45:20:10 - 00:45:41:14
Siobhan O'Donnell
Ooh, good question. I think going back, I do think sometimes everybody thinks they can do it. And when things are going wrong, going right, they think, oh, that's fine. They just sort of stand there and, you know, I think you see those the old fashioned five, four, three, two, one, you know, people counting it down and thinking, yes, I could do that, I could do that.

00:45:41:16 - 00:46:06:12
Siobhan O'Donnell
But actually nobody really does that anymore because all the presenters are on earpieces and everything. I think if you are very, a very, anxious, nervous person, you might struggle because it can be a stressful job. I would say it's a pressurized job. There's a lot of pressure from first thing in the morning until you literally deliver because you are the person who's always pushing things on.

00:46:06:14 - 00:46:23:16
Siobhan O'Donnell
Right? Can we do this? Can we do that? You know, you don't ever have that sort of. Oh, okay. I could just sit back with my feet up for 20 minutes. Now. You're always looking, right. What's next? What's next, what's next? So even when something is happening and you think, right, we could be on about 20 minutes, what you're doing is looking and looking.

00:46:23:19 - 00:46:42:01
Siobhan O'Donnell
So if if that is a real problem for you, then I don't think it would be a great fit. And I think you probably burn yourself out. Punctuality, time, keeping all of those kind of things which you know are second nature to us. You can't be. You can't be like the floor manager because you kick everything off, all of those kind of things.

00:46:42:03 - 00:46:46:06
Siobhan O'Donnell
You know, some guy said to me, I don't really get going until the afternoon.

00:46:46:08 - 00:46:48:19
Ashley Golder
So what? Someone who wanted to be a floor.

00:46:48:20 - 00:46:53:09
Siobhan O'Donnell
Yeah, yeah, just, you know, I don't really get go. You all better start learning quickly.

00:46:53:11 - 00:46:54:01
Ashley Golder
And,

00:46:54:03 - 00:46:58:05
Siobhan O'Donnell
You know, if you're not there at the, you know, when it starts, you need to be there.

00:46:58:05 - 00:46:59:10
Ashley Golder
And it starts early.

00:46:59:15 - 00:47:19:08
Siobhan O'Donnell
It can do, it can do. Yeah. I mean, again, depends on the show but but yeah, I mean particularly if you're on location, you know, it's, it's seven, 730 and you need to be there. I think that's true of everybody. You know, it's like, well, if you're not 50 minutes early, you're late and all of that kind of thing, you know, with a bit of experience, you should know.

00:47:19:10 - 00:47:38:14
Siobhan O'Donnell
You should know everybody's job. You should know when somebody is swinging the leg a bit, you know, or if they're covering up for something or whatever, just tell me. Tell me the truth. You know, if you've broken a few broken bars and you've got somebody running down the road to get a new one, that's okay. Just tell me, because otherwise I'm going, where's the bells?

00:47:38:14 - 00:47:46:08
Siobhan O'Donnell
Whistles and you know, it's going to be 15 minutes because somebody's gone to John Lewis to get another one. Okay, fine. We haven't got the past.

00:47:46:10 - 00:48:03:18
Ashley Golder
And again it's that information because if you know you can then you almost, I guess a bodyguard for the director and for the crew. You know, you are that person who goes, okay, well, does the gallery need to know this right now? Can I take this? Do I need to let them know, and vice versa for the gallery?

00:48:03:18 - 00:48:12:21
Ashley Golder
You know who might be shouting, saying, where the f is that effing light? You know, you know that actually, maybe someone's tripped up and that's on first aid happening. Yeah. On the floor.

00:48:12:21 - 00:48:34:00
Siobhan O'Donnell
Yeah, absolutely. I think, you know, you're right saying and this also stuff that you, you can keep from your director because they actually don't need to worry about it. If it's something to do with hair and makeup or, you know, somebody's lunch not arriving, they don't need to know these things. You know, they can affect what happens.

00:48:34:06 - 00:48:51:14
Siobhan O'Donnell
And there's a way of sort of couching it. And and sometimes instead, you might just say, could we just have a look at that might just buy you the five minutes that, you know, somebody who's made a genuine mistake brought the wrong thing? Can go and sort it out. And, you know, TV should never be a witch hunt.

00:48:51:16 - 00:48:56:00
Siobhan O'Donnell
No. But at the same point, at the same time, I always say to people, I'd rather just know.

00:48:56:02 - 00:49:01:03
Ashley Golder
What have been some of your most memorable moments as a floor manager?

00:49:01:05 - 00:49:43:22
Siobhan O'Donnell
Oh my goodness me, I think. Yeah, I mean sometimes it's it is the big ones. It's the ones that you think, wow, I'm here. And you know, obviously something, something like the Queen's funeral. I mean, it's a huge, historic event. Historic event. I love doing the the sort of jubilee concerts in front of Buckingham Palace when you look down the mall and just see, hundreds of people, when you're in the wings, maybe watching Prince or your favorite artist or somebody playing on stage, that's pretty amazing.

00:49:43:24 - 00:50:07:07
Siobhan O'Donnell
I think as well, it's just meeting so many different people. I love that, I love meeting, guests. We've got incredible stories. Somebody who could talk about beekeeping for hours, you know, not just the famous people. It's. It's more about, just everybody's got a story, and you get to meet them.

00:50:07:09 - 00:50:29:15
Ashley Golder
Let's talk about the future of the industry, especially for floor managers. So the floor managing pool seems quite small. It feels like you know each other for sure. And it's been said before that until somebody dies or retires, it's quite difficult to move up.

00:50:29:17 - 00:51:00:10
Siobhan O'Donnell
Yes, I would say that is true. I mean, there's always an opportunity, but I think I think it's more the case of just the availability of the jobs. I mean, the TV industry at the moment is contracting a bit. There's not as much stuff being made. There's not so much stuff being made in studio. Yeah. So therefore less people are needed for less content.

00:51:00:12 - 00:51:17:02
Siobhan O'Donnell
Which means that less people are required. It's just, you know, so I think when people do sort of say, oh, I'll never get a chance, I'll never get a shot. It's not because somebody is keeping you back. It's just because the availability is not there. The demand isn't there.

00:51:17:07 - 00:51:30:16
Ashley Golder
So what's your advice then, for either somebody who wants to move into AFM assistant for managing or more so, an assistant floor manager that wants to make that next jump to a floor manager?

00:51:30:18 - 00:51:53:09
Siobhan O'Donnell
Well, I think being aware of what's going on in the industry and how many jobs you are getting on a regular basis, because let's face it, we all need to pay the bills and in that case, you need to be working regularly for most of the year. That's pretty hard to do as, an AFM if you're living outside London, for example.

00:51:53:11 - 00:51:55:13
Ashley Golder
And one of the other hubs, Manchester goes.

00:51:55:17 - 00:52:23:19
Siobhan O'Donnell
And you haven't got a regular gig. So I mean, if you're on something like, Emmerdale or The One Show or the soap or something, that's year round, this is my sport. It's really good. Is because that's always there. It's always there in the background. But if you only work on one series of, let's say, for example, and it's just finished, but Saturday Night Takeaway, you know, you might have a run of what, eight weeks, something like that.

00:52:23:21 - 00:52:45:06
Siobhan O'Donnell
You need to find lots and hopefully you'll be with a team. Who will take you from job to job. But if you're the last one in, you might find, oh, I don't get taken on to that job because I only need one person. So you do need to be aware that you need to fill that time. And that's where it's very.

00:52:45:08 - 00:52:55:10
Ashley Golder
Very difficult. So what's your advice then for people looking to make the step up to a floor manager? What can they do to make themselves more hirable.

00:52:55:16 - 00:53:21:00
Siobhan O'Donnell
Oh, that's a good question. I mean, maybe, maybe try and go into an area that the people you're trying to replace aren't necessarily maybe there's a new show, maybe there's a there's all sorts of things going on. Branded content, stuff for Amazon stuff. Could you get in that way? Because when something is new and starting out, I think that's where you get your chance.

00:53:21:02 - 00:53:30:05
Ashley Golder
What do you look for in a in an assistant floor manager that makes you go, yes, that person will make an excellent floor manager.

00:53:30:07 - 00:53:37:05
Siobhan O'Donnell
I, I would say I could tell quite quickly they just they just engaged. They're engaged from the minute that that, you know, you meet them.

00:53:37:05 - 00:53:39:00
Ashley Golder
And what does that mean in a practical sense?

00:53:39:00 - 00:54:01:05
Siobhan O'Donnell
Okay. They, they, they look at you, they, they get the schedule, they look at it, they ask really pertinent questions. Never be afraid to ask questions, but also at the right time. Yes, yes. What is there people skills like? Watch them with guests. Do they greet them? Do they shake the hand? Do they look them in the eyes?

00:54:01:05 - 00:54:15:10
Siobhan O'Donnell
How do they introduce them to you? I'll always like that as well. If you've got a really good AFM and they've collected them from wardrobe and they've built up a little bit of. They've had a bit of how'd you get here? How is journey touched off? You know, just a bit of small talk just to allay the fears or whatever.

00:54:15:12 - 00:54:33:15
Siobhan O'Donnell
It's really nice if they come onto the floor, come onto whatever. I'll introduce you. That's a really nice thing. Hi. This is for the floor manager. I'll leave you to do that. I'll come and collect you. Really good. Just. Just really nice people skills. And if they've got that as an AFM, they won't go far wrong.

00:54:33:17 - 00:54:47:23
Ashley Golder
So you're looking you're looking for personable people. People who can connect with people, talk with people, gather information if you can talk. And if you're friendly, that's what we're looking for in a in a good for manager.

00:54:48:01 - 00:54:58:01
Siobhan O'Donnell
Yes. People skills decision making, time keeping. And just all around good guy. Oh gal.

00:54:58:03 - 00:55:06:21
Ashley Golder
So let's talk about you, Siobhan. At the end of every episode, we always ask, what is next? So what is next for you?

00:55:06:23 - 00:55:29:16
Siobhan O'Donnell
Well, I mean, I wouldn't say I've got that many years. I've done. I've done my time. Oh, hi. Really enjoying, I'm doing a bit of, teaching and tutoring at the moment of the National Film and Television School. Lovely. And working with their students on some of the grad films. And, and I'm really, really enjoying that.

00:55:29:18 - 00:55:36:21
Siobhan O'Donnell
I don't think I've got any burning ambition to do anything that I haven't already done. That sounds very arrogant.

00:55:36:21 - 00:55:38:13
Ashley Golder
So you've got a very impressive CV.

00:55:38:13 - 00:56:00:17
Siobhan O'Donnell
Yeah, I mean, I haven't, I just, I haven't got, you know, a burning ambition to go and do Big Brother in Australia or something like that. Do you know what I mean? I don't there's nothing that I but I just really, really love working with nice people. Yeah. Interesting staff and with a good team, I love cruise.

00:56:00:17 - 00:56:27:22
Siobhan O'Donnell
I think the reason I stayed in my job as a floor manager and haven't tried to become a producer or a director is I actually really love the job. And I love I love cruise, I love being part of that team, and I love the chaos and the getting there. But when everything comes together, it's so satisfying. Yeah, particularly if you're doing like a live show or something.

00:56:27:24 - 00:56:47:15
Siobhan O'Donnell
I love going to unusual places. It's great when you get call and, you know, can you go to Croatia for a couple of weeks or something like that, or, you know, wherever I can, but sometimes it can be somewhere in this, you know, country that you haven't been before. Yeah. I'm doing a couple of things that are, you know, places in Norfolk that I've never been to before.

00:56:47:17 - 00:56:55:00
Siobhan O'Donnell
That's a that's such a privilege. You get to somebody, travel the country or travel the world on somebody else's dime. So I like doing that.

00:56:55:02 - 00:57:15:02
Ashley Golder
So still doing more of the same teaching the new generation, which is lovely. And of course, let's not forget your work that you're doing with people in television. Current runners, and making sure that the runners of our industry are getting the right advice, which is so needed, especially now at the moment. Thank you so much for being part of TV makers, Siobhan.

00:57:15:02 - 00:57:16:23
Ashley Golder
It's been such a pleasure speaking with you.

00:57:17:00 - 00:57:20:02
Siobhan O'Donnell
Thank you. It's been great.

00:57:20:04 - 00:57:38:16
Ashley Golder
And that's it for this episode of TV makers. I hope you enjoyed my chat, which divine I know I especially loved the mental image of what the Queen and the Prime Ministers security thought was going on. Ashbourne was crawling along the pews, but it all worked out in the end. If you enjoyed the episode, please rate comment and subscribe.

00:57:38:16 - 00:57:58:08
Ashley Golder
It really helps other listeners find us and keeps the show going strong. You can stay connected with the show on Instagram at TV Makers Pod or drop me a message any time at podcast at TV makers echo.uk. Or you can find me on LinkedIn to keep the conversation going. Thanks again to Siobhan for joining me and thank you for tuning in.

00:57:58:11 - 00:58:02:15
Ashley Golder
I'll see you in a couple of weeks for the next episode of TV makers. Take care.