TV Makers
TV Makers is a podcast that takes listeners behind the scenes of the TV industry, interviewing professionals in various roles to gain insights into their work. Host Ashley Golder speaks with the likes of Steadicam operators, Production Managers, Directors, Lighting Technicians, and more, covering all aspects of the TV world. In each episode, we delve into the intricacies of their roles, learning about the challenges and rewards of working in the industry. With episodes released every two weeks, TV Makers is perfect for TV enthusiasts, aspiring industry professionals, and veterans with years of experience. Subscribe now on your preferred platform and follow @tvmakerspod on Instagram and Twitter for more content.
TV Makers
Ep 22: Abigail Dankwa - Multi Camera and Fixed Rig Director
Award-winning multi-cam and fixed rig Entertainment Director Abigail Dankwa is a powerhouse you need to know, learn from, and listen to!
With BAFTA and RTS awards, a Grierson nomination, Directors UK board member, recognition as a BAFTA Breakthrough, Edinburgh Festival’s Ones to Watch, and Broadcast Magazine Hot Shot, Abigail’s journey to The Director’s Chair is nothing short of incredible.
In this episode, we discuss her challenges, including her thoughts on the label of "risk" in hiring decisions, and explore how the industry can change that. We also dive into her thoughts on failure with an unforgettable story with Danny Boyle - Yes, that Danny Boyle.
If you’re ready for an inside look at what it takes to become a multi-cam director, buckle up for this dynamic episode of TV Makers!
Also, here’s the link to one of Abigail’s must see pieces of multi cam work, Strictly Come Dancing 2018 Launch!
https://youtu.be/UxsVTH78s_8?si=w21FcrZFPLBhblgo
TV Makers is your go-to podcast for staying ahead in your career, where we explore the ever-evolving landscape of our industry. Join us bi-weekly as we feature a diverse range of professionals from all corners of filmmaking. Subscribe, rate, and share to ensure you never miss an episode and stay up to date with all the latest insights and trends.
Thank you for tuning in and being a part of our community. Your support means the world to us!
Recorded and Edited by Ashley Golder - https://ashleygolder.tv/
Instagram @tvmakerspod
Email: Podcast@tvmakers.co.uk
Artwork by Benjamin Leon -
Instagram: @benleondraws
Website: www.benleondraws.com
00:00:03:00 - 00:00:26:18
Ashley Golder
Hello and welcome to TV makers, the podcast that brings you real life lessons from today's industry professionals. I'm Ashley Golder, a factual director, and this is episode two of series three. Now, first, thank you all for the warm welcome back after episode one with the email never camera. The response has been incredible with some great conversations coming from it, so feel free to keep the conversation going.
00:00:26:19 - 00:00:51:00
Ashley Golder
You can find me on LinkedIn with my name Instagram @tvmakerspod or email me direct on podcast@tvmakers.co.uk. But today, I am thrilled to give you another incredible interview with our guest this week, award winning multi-cam director Abigail Dankwa. We talk about her insights on what it really takes to sit in the director's chair and entertainment.
00:00:51:02 - 00:01:23:04
Ashley Golder
Faced with high pressure scenarios, quick decisions, and the unpredictability of live TV. Abigail brings us some hard truths about moving into the directors role, and offers a refreshing perspective on why people shouldn't be labelled as risks, but rather as opportunities. A mindset shift that I think we can all learn from. So if you're working away towards a big chair yourself, or you're feeling stuck in that chair and need a shake up, get ready for this insightful and extra energetic conversation.
00:01:23:06 - 00:01:31:16
Ashley Golder
Here is Abigail Dankwa. Abigail, thank you for being part of this week's TV makers episode.
00:01:31:17 - 00:01:32:16
Abigail Dankwa
You're welcome.
00:01:32:18 - 00:01:57:03
Ashley Golder
You are an exceptionally busy person to to let the audience know. We probably confirmed this interview about 5 or 6 hours ago. Properly. Yes. Last night you went to some networking drinks. I did. I had a very interesting voice note from you this morning. But here we are, hosted at the director's UK HQ. Yeah. Thank you to director UK for allowing us to record.
00:01:57:05 - 00:02:00:22
Ashley Golder
And thank you, everyone for being part of the podcast.
00:02:00:22 - 00:02:01:13
Abigail Dankwa
You're welcome.
00:02:01:19 - 00:02:25:21
Ashley Golder
Usually at this stage I would ask the guest, tell me a little bit about yourself. But I'm going to do this for you points because you've got a beautiful email signature. And then and then I did some background research. So bear with me, everyone, because Abigail's got a lot behind her. You were a former model booker and photographer's agent?
00:02:26:01 - 00:02:30:00
Ashley Golder
Yes. You were a broadcast magazine. 2022 Hot Shot.
00:02:30:01 - 00:02:30:22
Abigail Dankwa
Yeah.
00:02:30:24 - 00:03:00:13
Ashley Golder
Multi-Camera director of arts, award winning best entertainment show, the big breakfast. Yes. Multi-Camera director of BAFTA award winning entertainment program Life and Rhymes. Director of Aggression trust. Nominated best Arts and constructed documentary series. Grayson's Art club S2. Yes. A 2020 BAFTA breakthrough. Yes. And that's your email signature. And then when we spoke, you said Danny Boyle himself asked you to assist on his TV show, Babylon.
00:03:00:15 - 00:03:09:15
Ashley Golder
You're a board member for directors UK. Yeah. You're a mentor for we Are Dog Women. Yeah. And you also have a mindset and money management coaching business.
00:03:09:15 - 00:03:14:09
Abigail Dankwa
Yeah, that's a very new thing. That's a that's a very recent thing.
00:03:14:09 - 00:03:22:16
Ashley Golder
I'm not done. Well I then asked you when we had our chat last week if I'd missed anything. You went, oh yeah, I've run a mini job club.
00:03:22:18 - 00:03:46:02
Abigail Dankwa
Oh yeah. That's what I do. But this is not. That's not it. I don't think I said exactly those words. I said, well, we have a job club and it's friends together. I didn't say it's like I have loads of people who come to the thing. It's more of a support network. It's a support system because, you know, freelancers especially now we're all sitting at home waiting for the phone to ring or waiting for an email to come in.
00:03:46:02 - 00:04:01:23
Abigail Dankwa
And the three of us just decided there was a couple of us in this group and three of us were available. And we just decided we would get together once a month so we could spend time together, talk about ourselves, talk about the industry, updating CV, sending emails out just to have a little bit of, you know, more support for each other.
00:04:02:00 - 00:04:14:19
Ashley Golder
That is an impressive background into who you are. I want to ask quickly because I think it's going to help the rest of the episode. I think your answers will sort of interchange with this. I want to ask about the mindset coaching.
00:04:14:19 - 00:04:24:19
Abigail Dankwa
With coaching, it's the way that I do it is, coaching the way I was certified. And what we kind of believe is you are you actually are the expert in your life.
00:04:24:21 - 00:04:25:10
Ashley Golder
Yes, I am.
00:04:25:11 - 00:04:27:14
Abigail Dankwa
Yes you are.
00:04:27:16 - 00:04:27:20
Ashley Golder
Yeah.
00:04:27:23 - 00:04:29:07
Abigail Dankwa
As long as you happy with that.
00:04:29:09 - 00:04:31:23
Ashley Golder
Well, sometimes I'd like someone else to read my.
00:04:32:01 - 00:04:59:14
Abigail Dankwa
Exactly the same. Yeah. I work by, like, directed by somebody else. So. Yeah. So basically you would decide, like, for instance, within a career and you decided you want to do something with the next five years would be at a certain level. For instance. And we would talk about how, again, how you would get there, but also realize that sometimes that when you're pushing yourself out of your comfort zone, your brain wants to fuck you up.
00:04:59:16 - 00:05:08:04
Abigail Dankwa
And work out how you would deal with your own brain's obstacles and objections. So it's, it's a, it's general life coaching.
00:05:08:04 - 00:05:16:18
Ashley Golder
I mean, it sounds like a brilliant skill in our industry to have not only just to have but yes to, to coach. But you know selfishly for yourself as well.
00:05:16:19 - 00:05:17:19
Abigail Dankwa
Oh yeah. That's in the.
00:05:17:19 - 00:05:18:06
Ashley Golder
Job that you.
00:05:18:06 - 00:05:36:02
Abigail Dankwa
Do. Yeah. But that's why that's primarily the reason why I want to do it. So that small business side of it is not a big thing because I've got my directing career, but I do coach myself if I have to. And it's, you know, it's just dealing with life, you know, because life be lifein.
00:05:36:04 - 00:05:37:00
Ashley Golder
Life is hard.
00:05:37:02 - 00:05:39:13
Abigail Dankwa
Life is challenging, I like to say.
00:05:39:13 - 00:05:48:20
Ashley Golder
Well, let's talk about your TV career. Yes. So first of all, yeah. What is your job? And can you give me a rough elevator pitch as to what that involves?
00:05:48:20 - 00:06:08:24
Abigail Dankwa
So I'm a multi-camera and fixed rig TV director and that can be in a studio setting or an outside broadcast. I mean, the kind of shows that I would work on are things like, have I Got News for you, pointless. You know, those kind of studio based shows. Life and Rhymes is more to put cameras, although site different set up
00:06:09:01 - 00:06:10:10
Ashley Golder
Award winning.
00:06:10:12 - 00:06:16:00
Abigail Dankwa
BAFTA and the Big Breakfast also that was an OBE.
00:06:16:03 - 00:06:16:20
Ashley Golder
Award winning.
00:06:16:21 - 00:06:27:20
Abigail Dankwa
Yeah. Right. It's funny though, because I can only now say that it took me a long time to actually take that on. Do you know what I mean? When people used to say.
00:06:27:22 - 00:06:30:08
Ashley Golder
Okay, so multi-camera fixed rig direct.
00:06:30:08 - 00:06:32:10
Abigail Dankwa
Oh, fixed. We have a message to fixed with a slightly different.
00:06:32:10 - 00:06:32:19
Ashley Golder
Okay.
00:06:32:22 - 00:06:57:12
Abigail Dankwa
So fixed rig is basically it's about the rig being put into a precinct. And when we say precinct it's something like a school, a hotel, an advert Commerce house, like Big Brother, which is what I started on. And it is, it's using those CCTV style cameras. I mean, a bit more flashy than once, you see in marks, expenses, but those kind of type of cameras are set into the rig, which is in the ceiling or above.
00:06:57:12 - 00:07:26:07
Abigail Dankwa
Oh, you're participants or is and it's basically following the reality or that, as they go through what it is they're going through. And so, it's a slightly different because you have a hothead operator who operates those cameras. Each camera will have a number in the precinct, and I call the cameras. So I vision mics director at the same time, and my hot head operator operates the cameras, gives me the right shot sizes, make sure the cameras are on the person that I want to be shooting.
00:07:26:07 - 00:07:27:21
Abigail Dankwa
Yeah, that sort of thing.
00:07:28:02 - 00:07:37:22
Ashley Golder
And I guess as, almost distinction, roughly how many cameras would you typically have for a multi-cam versus your typical fixed rig?
00:07:37:24 - 00:07:48:10
Abigail Dankwa
Pointless. How do you have finesse now? You're asking for about seven. Have I got needs to use seven cameras? Yeah. Up to, I think 100 hundred and 20 and 24,008.
00:07:48:10 - 00:07:59:12
Ashley Golder
Yeah. There you go. Yeah. So very similar job. Still very different job. Yeah. I think we'll focus on the multicam director. Okay. How did you get into it first of all,
00:07:59:14 - 00:08:16:03
Abigail Dankwa
How's I get into it. So after doing the jobs that you mentioned, thank you very much. Yeah. I always wanted to get into TV and fashion when I was younger, I thought I was going to be a fashion designer, and I wanted to work in television because I used to watch Saturday morning television and it looked funny and great and exciting, and I thought, I want to do that.
00:08:16:03 - 00:08:20:07
Abigail Dankwa
I didn't actually know what I wanted to do. I just said, I want to do that. I didn't know what that was.
00:08:20:07 - 00:08:22:02
Ashley Golder
And where did Saturday morning television go?
00:08:22:05 - 00:08:36:24
Abigail Dankwa
Yeah, I want to know because I want it back because I like to work on it. So anyway, being the daughter of a gun and mother, she basically told me that many of those things were professions. So I had to go out and get a proper job.
00:08:37:02 - 00:08:38:20
Ashley Golder
What was the proper job?
00:08:38:22 - 00:08:51:12
Abigail Dankwa
Well, if you're if you're anyone who's a person of color will identify this. If you're Asia or Afro-Caribbean, you're kind of going to be a doctor, a lawyer or an accountant, an engineer. Those kind of.
00:08:51:14 - 00:08:53:00
Ashley Golder
Traditional take.
00:08:53:02 - 00:09:02:13
Abigail Dankwa
Adult job, adult jobs, things that they can understand. Yeah, they watch television, but they don't want you doing it because I don't think it's sustainable.
00:09:02:13 - 00:09:05:06
Ashley Golder
Yeah, well, you're not a doctor or a lawyer.
00:09:05:07 - 00:09:10:14
Abigail Dankwa
Hello. Oh, then my mum did say I should be a lawyer because she squeezes. I argue too much.
00:09:10:14 - 00:09:16:02
Ashley Golder
So how then did you move from wanting to be a designer to now working in TV?
00:09:16:02 - 00:09:38:00
Abigail Dankwa
Well, design. I went straight out the window. To please my mother. I went through clearing, got a place, did a year, do politics, didn't like it. She said go and get a job. So I did retail for a number of years. Then various different things happened. I ended up working as model agent for Fashion photographers agent. Then I went to a very small digital TV channel because I decided I wanted to try this TV thing.
00:09:38:00 - 00:09:58:00
Abigail Dankwa
I hadn't lost that book. So I thought I would go there for three months or as a volunteer and try and make my way into television. And because it was such a small digital TV channel, it wasn't. And this sounds awful, actually isn't meant that way. It wasn't in inverted commas, proper telly, but I thought it was the step up into it.
00:09:58:02 - 00:10:23:18
Abigail Dankwa
And then a job came up as an acquisitions assistant that was getting the content in for the channel, weirdly. Then the sort of channel controller change had another one that we had, another one. When we had the second one that came in, he asked us what we thought was working and what wasn't, and maybe the person that was, I actually told him what I thought and yeah, about two weeks later, he came up to me and said, Abigail really liked your ideas and I want you to run the channel.
00:10:23:20 - 00:10:28:06
Abigail Dankwa
I was like, oh, okay.
00:10:28:08 - 00:10:29:04
Ashley Golder
Sorry.
00:10:29:06 - 00:10:42:04
Abigail Dankwa
What I don't oh yeah. So I ended up staying at that channel from being three, three months work experience. I was there for five and a half years, not for the last year and a half. I was running that channel.
00:10:42:06 - 00:10:50:10
Ashley Golder
Okay. So how do you go from channel controller for want of a better job title, to then going into the multi-cam directing route?
00:10:50:12 - 00:11:09:19
Abigail Dankwa
Okay, I can try to do this as quickly as possible. I was there for five and a half years. It together TV community channel as I knew it. And for various reasons, I had to leave and for personal reasons, I had to leave and they were doing redundancy at the same time. So I asked to be made redundant.
00:11:09:21 - 00:11:24:20
Abigail Dankwa
Then I was trying to work out what to do next. Next. And I hadn't got over. I literally had a chip on my shoulder about not finishing my first degree or having any sort of qualification. Thanks, mom. One of my friends said, why don't you go to NFC's.
00:11:24:22 - 00:11:26:07
Ashley Golder
National Film, television, film.
00:11:26:08 - 00:11:51:08
Abigail Dankwa
Television School? The course is producing and directing television entertainment. And I went there thinking I was going to come out working towards becoming an entertainment producer. That was my goal and the directing element was a bit like, I don't care about what, I don't really care. Still, I'm all about production, I care. But one of the exercises I had to I had to direct and we'd been taught rudiments of directing, and I sat in the director's chair and I was like, actually.
00:11:51:08 - 00:11:52:02
Ashley Golder
That's how they get.
00:11:52:02 - 00:11:53:23
Abigail Dankwa
There, says the.
00:11:54:00 - 00:12:03:23
Ashley Golder
I did the same thing. I had no intention of being a director, really. And then I got to be in sort of in charge of the editorial of the directing. I'm like, oh, I quite like that.
00:12:03:23 - 00:12:05:01
Abigail Dankwa
Yeah, exactly.
00:12:05:03 - 00:12:06:21
Ashley Golder
I quite like being in charge.
00:12:06:21 - 00:12:07:13
Abigail Dankwa
Yeah, the.
00:12:07:13 - 00:12:10:03
Ashley Golder
Power.
00:12:10:05 - 00:12:21:03
Abigail Dankwa
So, yes. So then that's when I changed my mind. And then so that was the beginning of the two year Masters. And I just basically set myself up for coming out and working towards becoming a most common actor.
00:12:21:05 - 00:12:27:06
Ashley Golder
How long did it take you to become a yes athletic director? Yes.
00:12:27:08 - 00:12:46:24
Abigail Dankwa
Yeah, I graduated in 2012 and, no one cared. No, no one cares. So yeah, you know, and it is understandable. You know, switching the lights in a studio is an expensive endeavor. So you're not just going to give it to any person. Oh, yeah, I did come out of that straight away.
00:12:47:00 - 00:12:53:02
Ashley Golder
Yeah, yeah. Again, another PSA announcement. If you're coming out of university thinking going to be a director, think again.
00:12:53:02 - 00:13:00:04
Abigail Dankwa
It's not that well yeah it's not good. I don't get cards. Same director. And I've seen graduates do that. Yeah I yeah yeah you're pennies.
00:13:00:04 - 00:13:00:19
Ashley Golder
Don't do that.
00:13:00:21 - 00:13:02:02
Abigail Dankwa
Don't do that.
00:13:02:04 - 00:13:08:17
Ashley Golder
So you graduated 2012. When was your first multi-cam directing gig and what was it?
00:13:08:19 - 00:13:22:08
Abigail Dankwa
Very, very kindly the it was, phase, which RDF, which doesn't exist anymore. Yeah. They only, allow me to come in and show the director and, direct four days worth of episode.
00:13:22:09 - 00:13:23:04
Ashley Golder
On Tipping Point.
00:13:23:04 - 00:13:30:18
Abigail Dankwa
On Tipping Point. And then I did a couple of episodes to Mighty Productions who love UN Impossible.
00:13:30:23 - 00:13:36:00
Ashley Golder
But what was that like sitting in the chair for an actual broadcast production gallery?
00:13:36:05 - 00:14:01:12
Abigail Dankwa
I didn't have that in my head when I was doing that. It was it was it was anxiety inducing enough. I didn't need anything like that. I was just trying to do the best I can. Is you funny? Because the director I shadowed, he, he recorded my output of me directing. And because you when you're doing it, I think sometimes we do things we don't know what what we're what we're doing, if that makes sense.
00:14:01:12 - 00:14:06:06
Abigail Dankwa
So I was basically saying, come on, Falcon, you did a lot.
00:14:06:08 - 00:14:08:05
Ashley Golder
I'll just turn it down.
00:14:08:07 - 00:14:26:11
Abigail Dankwa
I didn't realize I was shouting, I was so nervous. I was like, And so he, I obviously did it the first couple of episodes and he slides to record me for my own benefit. So I was doing it to help me, and it was constructive feedback, because while I was doing it, because I was so I think I had my shoulders up by my ears.
00:14:26:13 - 00:14:43:11
Abigail Dankwa
I was so anxious, I didn't realize what I was doing and I need that was it was amazing. Help is it was it was a feedback I needed. Thing is, I'm all for feedback. I do it less now, I don't, I I had someone tell me you don't need to do any work, but I did for quite a while after I started properly asking for feedback.
00:14:43:11 - 00:14:44:12
Abigail Dankwa
I would always ask for feedback.
00:14:44:12 - 00:14:45:14
Ashley Golder
I still do that now.
00:14:45:16 - 00:14:54:00
Abigail Dankwa
Yeah, yeah, I think we would see it. But I think people I think people are scared for two reasons. Well, maybe one reason. Then they're they're scared of what people might say and.
00:14:54:02 - 00:14:59:10
Ashley Golder
I think we also, as professionals need to learn how to take constructive criticism.
00:14:59:11 - 00:15:00:09
Abigail Dankwa
Yeah, absolutely.
00:15:00:09 - 00:15:03:13
Ashley Golder
I think I mean, I've done it before where I've given feedback.
00:15:03:13 - 00:15:04:14
Abigail Dankwa
Yeah.
00:15:04:16 - 00:15:23:19
Ashley Golder
And it's not been received very well. And it's like, okay, well I've told you what you could do better, but you also need to be able to receive that in order to, to do better. Yeah. So I think we all need to also work on ourselves and on actually being able to receive it. And sometimes that's just trying to receive it on a different day or when you're ready.
00:15:23:19 - 00:15:25:03
Ashley Golder
Or maybe the approach.
00:15:25:05 - 00:15:26:00
Abigail Dankwa
Had that mindset.
00:15:26:00 - 00:15:29:05
Ashley Golder
So if they had that mindset coaching.
00:15:29:07 - 00:15:43:02
Abigail Dankwa
Yeah, it is is it? I think the thing is also with this industry is, is because it is although it is a professional industry, it is not like other professions in like it's not like law where you go through certain like training. Exactly.
00:15:43:02 - 00:15:43:23
Ashley Golder
The industry.
00:15:43:23 - 00:15:49:00
Abigail Dankwa
Yeah, exactly. And he's not like a doctor. You have to you have to take numerous exams to get to. Then I.
00:15:49:01 - 00:15:50:00
Ashley Golder
Tell your mum that I.
00:15:50:00 - 00:15:50:15
Abigail Dankwa
Know this is.
00:15:50:15 - 00:15:52:16
Ashley Golder
Like being a doctor.
00:15:52:18 - 00:15:54:21
Abigail Dankwa
She barely knows what a podcast is.
00:15:54:21 - 00:16:09:04
Ashley Golder
We're okay. She's she's she's my top listeners. So anyway, you have your NFTs cos you also did a director's UK multi-cam course, and it appears like everything than what you are, you know, you are directing multi-cam.
00:16:09:06 - 00:16:40:11
Abigail Dankwa
Yeah. So the Twitter UK course is great, but it was a number of years before I became a multi-camera director, and I got started getting regular work. The issue was people, for whatever reasons, quite set in their ways, and they, quite comfortable with who they have around them. And like anything, and this is not specific to the TV industry, when you are used to something, change is challenging.
00:16:40:17 - 00:16:47:21
Abigail Dankwa
That's not a TV thing. That's a human thing with anything. Because our brains, that's how our brains are wired.
00:16:47:23 - 00:17:05:24
Ashley Golder
I mean, so Louis Theroux gave this really great lecture at the Edinburgh Fringe, at the Edinburgh TV Festival, I think it was last year. And he said that broadcasters need to take more risks. And specifically he was talking about programing. Yes. But just going on what you're saying, should we also be taking more risks on people that we just don't know?
00:17:05:24 - 00:17:10:21
Ashley Golder
Instead of hiring our friends? Yes. Hire somebody else that might have a different story to tell.
00:17:10:23 - 00:17:33:07
Abigail Dankwa
That would be lovely. Yes. But I think also linguistically we can we stop using the word risk because that's part of the problem, I think, because nobody wants to be around risk, because if it goes wrong, someone's gonna have to take before. Yeah, and nobody wants to take the fool. Which is why we don't have people giving other people opportunities, but I listen, don't get me wrong.
00:17:33:07 - 00:17:51:18
Abigail Dankwa
I understand why people do it. And you know, when the commissioners have got not much money to play with, they don't have a lot of time. They're trying to, commission things very quickly. You know, logically, it makes sense. You go to the people, you know, because they there's automatically that shortcut.
00:17:51:20 - 00:18:14:20
Ashley Golder
I like the word change opportunity, not risk. Yeah. So let's have an opportunity. So the point of this podcast is for people who are looking to make the step up, who don't know what the job entails. Yes. To get an idea to talk to a friend and Abigail, your friend. Okay. So what would you regard as the top line of what your job title is as a multi-cam director?
00:18:14:22 - 00:18:43:08
Abigail Dankwa
The way I see it is in, you know, on production or in the gallery, I'm the head of the head office. So, yeah, on the call sheet, I'm a head of the cam supervisor, lighting director, sound supervisor, floor team. Basically, all those different departments report to me, right? So they've got my job isn't to the way I like to direct and this is the way that I plan to work out, the way I do it and know people probably have something to say about it.
00:18:43:08 - 00:19:01:18
Abigail Dankwa
But this is what I do. I work in tandem with the producers to basically turn their script into something that somebody that sits at home and watches with the help of a great crew. And I basically have to liaise with the different departments in order to make this thing happen.
00:19:01:23 - 00:19:03:09
Ashley Golder
What is a typical day for you?
00:19:03:09 - 00:19:21:01
Abigail Dankwa
There is no typical day. I went to the show, so like if I do have I got news for you? Yeah, I don't. Oh well, I'll tell you a story about the first while I did. I don't have my notifications on my phone because I just, I just, I can't deal with HBO. And I wasn't watching the television and I didn't have the radio on.
00:19:21:01 - 00:19:41:08
Abigail Dankwa
I was just puttering around the house, and my friend sent me a text saying, she's gone. And I'm like, who? And she went, Liz and I met Liz. Who? She met Liz Truss, you idiot. I was like, okay, oh, I think I said the right guy. It's about time. Yeah. They went back to do the laundry, not thinking.
00:19:41:10 - 00:19:42:05
Ashley Golder
About the show.
00:19:42:07 - 00:19:44:01
Abigail Dankwa
About the show that I'm about to do.
00:19:44:07 - 00:19:46:02
Ashley Golder
Have I got news? Yeah.
00:19:46:07 - 00:20:03:11
Abigail Dankwa
Knowing I was doing the show, but not putting two and two together because I was in my world, I had to get ready to go to the studio, get ready. Headphones in isn't the case at the time. I live live my best life walking Kevin that everyone's waiting around and I'm like, scared of that. Like Liz Truss resigns.
00:20:03:12 - 00:20:06:13
Abigail Dankwa
I'm like, yeah, I know that. Right.
00:20:06:13 - 00:20:18:01
Ashley Golder
So as a talking point for the show, yeah, I've got a big although to to say that at this stage is that no more of a producing thing. Is it, as a directing thing.
00:20:18:03 - 00:20:27:18
Abigail Dankwa
Is it more definitely more visually something. But but then the beats are changing all the time, right. They're rewriting the script. Okay. And it's my first one too, that I.
00:20:27:18 - 00:20:28:10
Ashley Golder
Need to be across.
00:20:28:10 - 00:20:43:06
Abigail Dankwa
It. Yeah. You know, I mean, you it needs to be. Of course it is. Like you want to go in on a calm day. I know with hindsight now, it was the best thing that ever happened because I thought I came off the deadline. I thought, if I can do that on that day.
00:20:43:12 - 00:20:45:11
Ashley Golder
Everything else is it should be.
00:20:45:13 - 00:20:48:03
Abigail Dankwa
Okay. I will say work at five, it should be okay.
00:20:48:06 - 00:20:55:15
Ashley Golder
So that's an example of how no day is the same, but you'll be given a script to mark up. What are you marking up? What are you looking for?
00:20:55:18 - 00:21:22:03
Abigail Dankwa
I'm marking up where there is a beat or where there is a still. So that basically because it's on an A4 sheet and it's just written, I need to highlight it. So it's quick for me to read so I can scan through it. And I'm reading ahead basically. And if there is anything particular like for instance, the House references, I want to, you know, pull, I need to make sure that I've got a camera.
00:21:22:05 - 00:21:30:03
Abigail Dankwa
I mean, the cameras are already on them, but I need to make sure that there's definitely some a camera on them for that or to tell. Do vision make sense? Cut that.
00:21:30:03 - 00:21:31:11
Ashley Golder
Up. Do you have rehearsals?
00:21:31:16 - 00:21:47:10
Abigail Dankwa
Some hosts will have a rehearsal for them with the producers and some of the researchers or apps. The stand ins. It all depends on who the host is. How would we treat that sort of block through run through the hassle time sort of situation?
00:21:47:12 - 00:22:02:08
Ashley Golder
And then I mean, describe for those of us who haven't been in a gallery, what is it like? Is it a calm environment? Is it a daunting environment you've got you said earlier so have I got news for you. Seven screens in front. Well, seven cameras in front of you.
00:22:02:08 - 00:22:02:23
Abigail Dankwa
Yes.
00:22:03:00 - 00:22:15:06
Ashley Golder
Plus a program and preview. Preview monitor. Yeah, plus a V team monitor. Probably. Yeah. Stills, stills autocue. Yeah. I mean at this stage you've got like 15.
00:22:15:12 - 00:22:17:03
Abigail Dankwa
Yeah I going all over this. No.
00:22:17:05 - 00:22:19:16
Ashley Golder
Describe to me what that environment's like.
00:22:19:18 - 00:22:36:20
Abigail Dankwa
It well it's, it should be quite a calm one. And in Have I got news for you. It is a calm one because everyone knows what they're doing. The reason there is there was only like, for instance, that there was a time on the big breakfast, which was, oh, one of the best observers of my life.
00:22:36:20 - 00:23:04:08
Abigail Dankwa
And that. Oh, it was great. Tom Grennan on the end of one show, who said he's, she knows good. And so he basically was the musical end of one of our episodes. So he was in the at the last song. So when you watch the show, basically you've got Mo getting in and OJ do do talking to the families where you can, whoever the guests are, just as he's about to start, the floor manager says, Tom wants to know if it's okay if he can jump in the pool at the end of the song.
00:23:04:14 - 00:23:09:24
Abigail Dankwa
And I'm like, we haven't have a safety this.
00:23:10:01 - 00:23:12:03
Ashley Golder
Okay?
00:23:12:05 - 00:23:20:24
Abigail Dankwa
He's said he's like, I was like. And we were like, talk in the gallery. Yeah, it's really, what do you really want to do that? He's like, yeah, he's out of it, you mean? But as a.
00:23:20:24 - 00:23:22:13
Ashley Golder
Director, you know, thinking right.
00:23:22:13 - 00:23:25:02
Abigail Dankwa
No he has I'm going. It's great.
00:23:25:02 - 00:23:26:23
Ashley Golder
But you've got other things.
00:23:26:23 - 00:23:45:19
Abigail Dankwa
You think so? Yeah. You've got to. Yeah. And so I'm like, so we're all going. And then he goes yeah he's going to do it okay. Like okay. Right. So he goes, so if you watch it back it's really funny because most people at home probably don't notice it. But he towards the end of the song he runs around in a circle.
00:23:45:19 - 00:24:09:10
Abigail Dankwa
Right. And we've got this mid shot so you can't really see what he's doing with his legs. But what he, what we could see was that he was basically trying to slide his shoes off. So he slides his shoes off, comes towards the camera, kneels into the camera, and as he's doing that, he's taking off his mic pack and then he runs around, is towards the end of the song, and then he jumps into the pool, which is great.
00:24:09:11 - 00:24:09:16
Abigail Dankwa
Yeah.
00:24:09:16 - 00:24:13:03
Ashley Golder
Lovely. Lovely shot at that point. Risk and said, oh yeah.
00:24:13:05 - 00:24:17:04
Abigail Dankwa
And it seems like a laser so light. It does exactly the same thing.
00:24:17:06 - 00:24:18:12
Ashley Golder
Without you guys, without.
00:24:18:12 - 00:24:38:00
Abigail Dankwa
Us knowing. Oh I can, I can see happening in slow motion and I'm like, just don't fall on top of it, because all I could think of is like a bad accident can happen because, Tom has gone in and I don't think he's even come up for air. And then Joe's jumped out and I'm like.
00:24:38:02 - 00:24:49:02
Ashley Golder
Okay, so you're in the gallery at this point, you got 15 monkeys in front of you. Camera's moving. You got sound on comms somewhere. What are you doing at this point? Because you're still having to do coverage.
00:24:49:02 - 00:24:50:15
Abigail Dankwa
Yeah. So you're calling cameras?
00:24:50:15 - 00:24:52:10
Ashley Golder
Yeah. How do you manage that?
00:24:52:11 - 00:25:13:00
Abigail Dankwa
You. Well, you can't manage it because I don't have Aids. Yeah. They don't they can't hear me. I could be shouting for dear life, but they they're doing their thing. It is. That is a very not normal situation. Do you know the name? And that are usually what would happen if you knew that was going to happen. You'd rehearse it and you would know that only one person is going in.
00:25:13:02 - 00:25:20:20
Abigail Dankwa
This is live television. See also. The beauty of live television. But this is live television. So yeah, it happened.
00:25:20:22 - 00:25:26:03
Ashley Golder
What do you think new multi-camera directors trip up on most?
00:25:26:05 - 00:25:50:05
Abigail Dankwa
When you're looking at the screens in front of you, you have a screen for each camera that's in the studio. Because you're in a separate place, you're not in the studio. But when I was at film school, I had to really train my brain to look at the cameras, the screens that replicated the cameras, as opposed to looking to the big screens, which are the preview and program monitors.
00:25:50:05 - 00:26:01:18
Abigail Dankwa
I call them present and future. Yeah. Do you want to make because program is what the audience at home are saying. Yeah. And preview is the next shot. That's the vision. Make sure it's getting get ready to cut up.
00:26:01:19 - 00:26:03:03
Ashley Golder
You're about to go right. Yeah.
00:26:03:04 - 00:26:29:23
Abigail Dankwa
Exactly. So it's present what you're looking at now and the future. What is due to be the shot to come. It took me quite a long time to remind myself when I was at film school, to look at the cameras, because as my job as a director is to make sure that the right shot is ready. And obviously when you've got really experienced camera people and you're on a scripted show and they all know what they're yeah, they've got their own camera cards for their shots.
00:26:30:00 - 00:26:53:03
Abigail Dankwa
They're already getting ready. So it's my job to just make sure that they are ready. And obviously if something changes, if it was on the live show and somebody did something different, I could call another camera. So it all depends. But those are I think the other thing is, is, oh, I'd actually won this piece of feedback. You just reminds me, at the very beginning when I started, I was again very nervous.
00:26:53:03 - 00:27:11:09
Abigail Dankwa
I just wanted to come. I just want to go do it. Let's get started. This is the prerecorded show, so, Very kind. Lights out. And again, this is because I asked for feedback, and he was the only person who said it. And at first, and I did have to hold myself together because I was like, oh, fuck, I fucked up.
00:27:11:12 - 00:27:25:13
Abigail Dankwa
I and it was a big one, but it was definitely one I do. I'm glad he told me. He basically said, Abigail, you're doing all right. But it might be good to detect with all the departments before you just set off.
00:27:25:15 - 00:27:27:09
Ashley Golder
Oh, right. Make sure everyone's ready.
00:27:27:09 - 00:27:53:23
Abigail Dankwa
Everybody is ready because there is a gallery where I am in which I, as the script supervisor, the vision mixer, the editorial team, maybe, graphics up autocue. There's. That's the production gallery. Then, depending on which studio you're in, as in the name of the studio, Elstree. Riverside or key? You have a sound gallery and you'll have the lighting gallery as well.
00:27:54:00 - 00:28:15:09
Abigail Dankwa
And sometimes I would get I was so get ready to go the sets off and they might be still tweaking something. Yeah. So he decided it might be just worth just checking. So now I go. I literally am like, you're like a gladiator. Gladiator? Are you ready? I'm literally sound. Are you ready? Like you're ready for. Are you ready cameras.
00:28:15:09 - 00:28:17:18
Abigail Dankwa
Are you ready? Everyone ready? And then we.
00:28:17:18 - 00:28:28:08
Ashley Golder
Go and then you put on a Scottish accent. Three tier would. I mean, it sounds incredibly technical. Do you have to be technical to do your job?
00:28:28:09 - 00:28:34:21
Abigail Dankwa
You do have to have a kind of an idea. But I'm not a specifically technical person, which is why I wanted to go through the floor managing roots.
00:28:34:21 - 00:28:46:19
Ashley Golder
Do you ever watch TV shows, live entertainment shows to get inspiration for your next thing to work out how maybe they've done it and and see if you can implement some of their techniques in your next thing.
00:28:47:00 - 00:29:05:22
Abigail Dankwa
There's a bit of television that I, I always take when I go to NFTs to talk to their students because for me, it's like one of the best. I think bits of it just really. So there's, a director, Richard Valentine, who did the one of the openings I of Strictly Come Dancing.
00:29:05:22 - 00:29:06:12
Ashley Golder
Lovely.
00:29:06:18 - 00:29:22:14
Abigail Dankwa
And it is I, I love it, it's absolute genius. I, I would, I, I don't know, I just love it takes it. Well they didn't shoot it. Well they didn't I. You have to watch it. Otherwise I give it away and it doesn't make sense.
00:29:22:19 - 00:29:25:01
Ashley Golder
This is a podcast and we do need to know what you.
00:29:25:01 - 00:29:26:13
Abigail Dankwa
Can go to. You can YouTube it.
00:29:26:19 - 00:29:29:20
Ashley Golder
Well, okay. What series? An episode.
00:29:29:22 - 00:29:38:20
Abigail Dankwa
What are we talking with? The opening series opening episodes. Richard Valentine does it. Who I who isn't the normal director of strictly?
00:29:38:20 - 00:29:39:18
Ashley Golder
Usually Nicky Parsons.
00:29:39:18 - 00:29:48:03
Abigail Dankwa
Exactly. But he did the opening, and it is the one you have so notes. We'll put it in the show notes. That's what I said podcast right now.
00:29:48:05 - 00:29:49:18
Ashley Golder
Okay. I will try and.
00:29:49:20 - 00:30:08:19
Abigail Dankwa
I will find it because I've got it. But I can't remember offhand because we didn't talk about this, but I watched it and I literally was like, how did what? That doesn't know what? My brain was literally fried when I watched it. And so I, I was like, Van Gogh. I emailed him, well, how did you do that?
00:30:08:21 - 00:30:16:08
Abigail Dankwa
And he very kindly sent me the script and sent me a whole email of how he did it.
00:30:16:10 - 00:30:17:19
Ashley Golder
Now that is beautiful.
00:30:18:00 - 00:30:23:19
Abigail Dankwa
I literally every time I go to Nfkrz, I'm like, well, okay, I saved have you think so?
00:30:23:19 - 00:30:40:10
Ashley Golder
I want to talk about this. It we, we talked about this on the podcast a couple of times, gatekeeping and how people, can sometimes be really reluctant to show and give their advice in their experience. And that is a time where it's not and that's beautiful. That's that's how TV should work.
00:30:40:10 - 00:30:45:03
Abigail Dankwa
Yeah. But like, I get it. I'm not a threat to Richard Valentine.
00:30:45:05 - 00:30:45:21
Ashley Golder
You don't that.
00:30:46:02 - 00:31:05:07
Abigail Dankwa
Yeah, I know that I'm not a threat. I don't believe either of those of other. I would have to say I'm definitely not a threat to Richard Valentine. He. He's been doing it for a number of years. He's really he's highly experienced. He's amazing. It's clearly the I thought was genius. The piece of TV that he delivered was amazing.
00:31:05:07 - 00:31:23:21
Abigail Dankwa
I loved it when you're that confident and confident in yourself to do what he did. And in general, because of the amount of years of experience that he has, I think he's he thinks and I think he's just a good guy I like I don't know him well, yeah, I like to think he's a good guy and that he spent time crafting an email.
00:31:23:21 - 00:31:32:12
Abigail Dankwa
It wasn't a like when I meet mentees and they say and they talk about sending emails to get jobs, I'm like, listen, do not write War and peace. Get in five sentences.
00:31:32:12 - 00:31:34:24
Ashley Golder
Everyone's busy like a bullet point, I love it.
00:31:35:04 - 00:31:50:18
Abigail Dankwa
Yeah, exactly. This was not a bullet point. This was a proper email. Step by step of how he did it, it was beautiful. And I still have it framed. Should be. Yeah. And I've got the script that he said. Yeah, he sent me the script as well.
00:31:50:19 - 00:31:51:10
Ashley Golder
That's really lovely.
00:31:51:10 - 00:32:15:08
Abigail Dankwa
It did a lovely thing. It was beautiful. However, I do understand that we're dealing with humans and they're human brains. And don't get me, I have been party to this as well. When you're new. And I'll just try. And you? We've taken ages to get there. When you're there, it's like close in, not letting go. And then was at my ankles.
00:32:15:08 - 00:32:40:15
Abigail Dankwa
You kind of want to get out of here, I just. Greg, give me some time. Do you that me so I completely understand it. I absolutely understand it. But there are people who have way more experience than me. And I'm not just talking multiple jokes. I'm just talking in any role, in any industry anywhere on this planet who may be competent but might not be necessarily competent.
00:32:40:17 - 00:32:56:22
Abigail Dankwa
And, and or scared that someone might come in and take what it take the thing that they have it that's a, that's a brain thing we have to deal with what we're dealing with humans with human brain. I know.
00:32:56:22 - 00:33:01:01
Ashley Golder
I just none of us in TV have got to where we are alone.
00:33:01:05 - 00:33:01:15
Abigail Dankwa
Of course.
00:33:01:15 - 00:33:07:04
Ashley Golder
No. And that goes for the people at the top as well. Of course, if those people at the top, they're not inclined.
00:33:07:04 - 00:33:12:02
Abigail Dankwa
Giving back, of course. But you're talking about it with your conscious mind.
00:33:12:07 - 00:33:19:17
Ashley Golder
Yes. Well, I hope that if you're listening to this, you know it. Giving back. Maybe, maybe tomorrow, just write an email to somebody that you think might need some help.
00:33:19:17 - 00:33:20:09
Abigail Dankwa
Yeah.
00:33:20:11 - 00:33:29:13
Ashley Golder
Abigail, has there been a particular moment in your career that's had a lasting impression on you? Maybe something that's influenced the way that you approach your work today?
00:33:29:15 - 00:33:39:11
Abigail Dankwa
Yes. Well, so what I have two ways of, interpreting the moment. Yeah. And I'm going to drop a name, so get ready to catch it, kids. I'm ready. Danny Boyle.
00:33:39:11 - 00:33:39:24
Ashley Golder
Okay.
00:33:39:24 - 00:33:40:18
Abigail Dankwa
Oh, lovely.
00:33:40:20 - 00:33:42:16
Ashley Golder
Say, famous film director.
00:33:42:18 - 00:33:50:17
Abigail Dankwa
Yes. So I worked with him. And also, how much have I said? Very famous. Want to come as a victor? On the Olympics.
00:33:50:17 - 00:33:51:19
Ashley Golder
So 2012.
00:33:51:19 - 00:34:16:18
Abigail Dankwa
London, 2012. Yeah. London. Opening. Danny did the opening. He didn't do all of them, but as James did all of them. So Hamish is a multi-camera director. He's the TV director of the event, and Danny was the creative director of the event. I worked with them both. Then after that, long story short, I ended up working on, a show called Babylon, which was a drama for channel four, and I think it was one of his.
00:34:16:20 - 00:34:27:10
Abigail Dankwa
I think it was the first drama TV drama he'd done in ten years. It was kind of going back that Danny Boyle had. But yeah, he hadn't done TV drama for like ten years or something like that. And he asked me to work on it.
00:34:27:12 - 00:34:34:16
Ashley Golder
I mean, first of all. Wow. Like being asked by Danny Boyle. Hey, you wanna work on a show with me? Yeah. What was your role?
00:34:34:18 - 00:34:45:16
Abigail Dankwa
I was third assistant director, and, This is drama. And let's remember, kids, I did a entertainment, right?
00:34:45:18 - 00:34:46:02
Ashley Golder
Yeah.
00:34:46:07 - 00:35:08:06
Abigail Dankwa
So I literally knew the square root of f all about drama. When I went. Oh, that's, And again, whatever reason, he decided to give me this opportunity and I think it mainly two reasons. One, it was working with him and two, I didn't have another job to go to. So I was, you know, I'm saying, yeah, it's a win win is a win win.
00:35:08:08 - 00:35:14:16
Abigail Dankwa
So basically, I took like, things like, I didn't know what a side was. Do you know what it is?
00:35:14:18 - 00:35:15:15
Ashley Golder
It's a script.
00:35:15:15 - 00:35:16:02
Abigail Dankwa
I didn't know.
00:35:16:03 - 00:35:16:23
Ashley Golder
Like a page of a script.
00:35:16:23 - 00:35:18:02
Abigail Dankwa
Yes, I didn't know.
00:35:18:05 - 00:35:20:13
Ashley Golder
I mean, I wouldn't have known back then. Yeah.
00:35:20:15 - 00:35:43:05
Abigail Dankwa
Yeah. So I didn't know, cause I don't do drama. We don't do sides in entertainment. But on this particular day we were shooting, I think, on Belgravia Square, Belgrave Square at somewhere in, in London. And it was this because this show was Babylon. It's about the police. It was a comedy drama. And we had this massive set up there locked down this square.
00:35:43:07 - 00:36:07:03
Abigail Dankwa
Right. We've got 200 essays. We've got police, you know, fake police cars everywhere. I'm doing crowds, essentially. And there was supposed to be a scene where an essay drives one of the leads actors off and onto that. It was going like a cut to another scene on the day. One of the runners supposed pick me up, got to my house late.
00:36:07:08 - 00:36:29:07
Abigail Dankwa
We then get to the production office late on Saturday. My job is awful. Much funny with sides, pens, you know, consent forms, loads of work gubbins, tape, all this sort of stuff, batteries, everything. And I'm just literally dragging my trolley wherever I need to go. Right. So we get there late. So I've, I've got to fill up my trolley.
00:36:29:07 - 00:36:47:09
Abigail Dankwa
So I'm dragging everything, just chucking things at the trolley, chucking things at the trolley. And then we get off, and we go to the square to go do the same. We, we do a couple of scenes, and then we're doing the scene where the essay drives off the actor, and we had to get consent for these essays to sign the consent form for him to drive.
00:36:47:10 - 00:36:48:09
Ashley Golder
Right.
00:36:48:11 - 00:36:57:16
Abigail Dankwa
I going to actually try to find the paper to get the consent form, to take it over to the essay so he could sign it. And there are no consent forms in my trolley.
00:36:57:21 - 00:36:58:19
Ashley Golder
Okay.
00:36:58:21 - 00:37:02:14
Abigail Dankwa
So I, I had to do the long walk.
00:37:02:16 - 00:37:03:06
Ashley Golder
Of shame.
00:37:03:06 - 00:37:20:22
Abigail Dankwa
To this to boil. And so I got to him and I got to say, how about this? Anyway, I'm a child of God. That mother who could so her. I grew everything out of God so I could deal with people shouting at me. Yeah, for the most part, I don't like it, clearly. And she doesn't do it that much now.
00:37:20:22 - 00:37:35:13
Abigail Dankwa
But I was a bit of a sometimes a naughty child. So when I went up to him, I was literally stealing myself to be shouted at because. And also because I'd heard that that's what directors do. Do you know what I mean? Look out to him, I say to him, listen, very sorry. I, we can't do the next scene.
00:37:35:13 - 00:37:55:00
Abigail Dankwa
And he says, why? And I said, because we haven't got the platform because I didn't bring except for him. So the I can't drive that car. And then he just said to me, well, we'll have to do something else then I then just walked off right. And then there was a moment where I just thought, that actually feels worse, because I was so.
00:37:55:00 - 00:37:55:12
Ashley Golder
Ready to.
00:37:55:12 - 00:37:56:16
Abigail Dankwa
Respond to that. I'm not.
00:37:56:16 - 00:37:58:03
Ashley Golder
Angry. I'm just disappointed.
00:37:58:05 - 00:38:14:24
Abigail Dankwa
Exactly. But he just said, and and we did. We made it. We made it work and it happens. And then we did the scene another time and it was fine. And and the schedule didn't change. It didn't have a didn't have repercussions. It was fine. It's a it was probably a pain, a bit of a pain in the ass honest.
00:38:15:01 - 00:38:20:24
Abigail Dankwa
But I looked and then like a couple of days I was like, that's the kind of person I want to be.
00:38:21:01 - 00:38:23:13
Ashley Golder
And is that the person that you think you are.
00:38:23:15 - 00:38:35:18
Abigail Dankwa
Can oh, clearly that's Danny Boyle, but I, I, I take that with me and I try to do that as much as possible if I don't tell me, but in a nice way.
00:38:35:20 - 00:38:39:12
Ashley Golder
There are always different ways of fixing a problem.
00:38:39:12 - 00:38:41:04
Abigail Dankwa
Yeah, exactly. There are. Yeah.
00:38:41:04 - 00:38:55:11
Ashley Golder
I want to talk quickly about directors UK. Yes. And, so you're on the board of directors UK. You are obviously a member of directors UK as well. Why did you become a directors UK member? What. What's in it for you?
00:38:55:13 - 00:39:03:03
Abigail Dankwa
Well, as a director, when you go back to the head of that whole thing, you, you wanted to partner of your own.
00:39:03:05 - 00:39:03:21
Ashley Golder
It's lonely at the.
00:39:03:21 - 00:39:37:15
Abigail Dankwa
Top because other departments, pretty much most departments, they have other people in them. Do you know what I mean? If you're in sound, you've got other sound. People sound assistance. You know, you've got lots of other people in there. And because you're the head of the head of some, you know, essentially some of the buck stops with you didn't mean and I just thought it would be good to be around other directors who are also in that position when no matter what genre, you tend to be an an army of one deal anyway.
00:39:37:17 - 00:39:45:14
Abigail Dankwa
And that's not to say that we're like, yeah, of course you're above everyone, but it's not in that I don't treat it in that hierarchical thing. We're all doing this thing together.
00:39:45:14 - 00:39:49:20
Ashley Golder
Yeah, there are multiple multi-camera directors working on the same show.
00:39:49:20 - 00:39:50:24
Abigail Dankwa
Unless you're under your vision.
00:39:50:24 - 00:39:56:24
Ashley Golder
Unless you're in there. So you became a member of directors UK so that you could be around other directors?
00:39:57:01 - 00:40:17:07
Abigail Dankwa
Yeah, be around other directors also, because I was new into the industry and I just wanted to learn more about the industry. And yeah, it's just it's a place for directors also because I've done the directors UK multi-camera course that also I kind of knew and liked what they were about. So yeah, that's the reason.
00:40:17:09 - 00:40:41:02
Ashley Golder
So one of the things that I've come out of this podcast is that people have told me that they're not only listening to this to work out what their next step could be, but they're also listening to this to learn how to work with their counterparts better. So I think the question for you, Abigail, is how can producers and execs work with a multi-camera director better?
00:40:41:02 - 00:40:42:15
Ashley Golder
What do you need out of a producer?
00:40:42:15 - 00:40:57:14
Abigail Dankwa
And this is a this is a thorny question. You're actually going, because I, because I want to have a little bit of history to it, because of the nature of where we are now, things are slightly different.
00:40:57:14 - 00:40:58:14
Ashley Golder
What do you mean by where we are?
00:40:58:15 - 00:41:26:03
Abigail Dankwa
So before I started, when budgets were bigger and you had more time in the schedule, directors would come in a lot sooner onto a production. Yeah, invariably that isn't the case. And for budgetary and scheduling reasons, I think if you spoke to most on behalf of, well, most directors, but if you spoke to most of them, they would probably say they would love to have more time.
00:41:26:07 - 00:41:28:08
Ashley Golder
I think, across the board of directors.
00:41:28:08 - 00:41:52:02
Abigail Dankwa
Exactly, exactly. And so asking me to tell execs and producers what I would love more out of them when they can't offer the thing I really want the most, which is more time is a hard one because they I'm sure they would want to do the same because it just makes for a production which is of ease and a bit more fun.
00:41:52:04 - 00:41:59:03
Abigail Dankwa
Because you've had more time to collectively and individually as a director, think about the show more.
00:41:59:04 - 00:42:11:02
Ashley Golder
Okay, so your big wish. Yeah. Which I think is echoed across the land is more time. Absolutely. But if you can't have more time, what do you then need? Is there something practical?
00:42:11:02 - 00:42:30:13
Abigail Dankwa
No I think yeah. It's more it's just communication. It's just communication all the way through and not given. Not being, not having surprises or finding our own find out things just as you're about to approach them. But for the most part, most exact producers try and give you everything you need because they also are making the show as well.
00:42:30:14 - 00:42:34:00
Abigail Dankwa
You remember, we're not doing it. I like to say we're not doing it.
00:42:34:00 - 00:42:36:14
Ashley Golder
Silos keep the communication lines open.
00:42:36:14 - 00:42:47:05
Abigail Dankwa
Absolutely. But it goes both ways. It goes, but it goes always for everybody and every department. You know? I mean, and that's when you get a functioning running it. Well, we're all on the train together.
00:42:47:07 - 00:43:06:09
Ashley Golder
The communication style and experience to be able to confidently work together as needed in every department. And I think those expectations and managing people can be tricky. And hey, I'll put myself in that category too, right? I've not always got it right 100% of the time, and that is when problems can arise.
00:43:06:09 - 00:43:23:09
Abigail Dankwa
Sometimes that's my only other thing is with this industry. And it's and I say this because I've been in other industries and I've been taught how to do it and I've learned how to do it, which is we are not good at managing management and we're not trained. People aren't trained in how to manage people.
00:43:23:11 - 00:43:23:22
Ashley Golder
Yeah.
00:43:23:24 - 00:43:27:01
Abigail Dankwa
And so some people aren't, necessarily.
00:43:27:06 - 00:43:27:11
Ashley Golder
Great.
00:43:27:16 - 00:43:46:17
Abigail Dankwa
Great managers. They are great at the role that got them into that role. That means that they can manage people, but they aren't necessarily great managers. Not everybody likes people that I work with who are great, but they're the odd 1 or 2. And you think you think you could possibly could have said that in a better way, and you probably would have got more out of me, the crew, whatever.
00:43:46:18 - 00:44:01:11
Ashley Golder
Yeah. And that that's kind of it's not really a fault on them. It's a fault in the industry that that those, those opportunities aren't really supplied. We sort of expected again, one of the reasons for this podcast, we're expected to know how to do it before we actually do it.
00:44:01:11 - 00:44:19:00
Abigail Dankwa
But this is the thing I was saying earlier. It's about the professionalism. Other professions. You go through grades before you get training thing. Yeah. And so what we do is, is like, for instance, you start off as a researcher and you probably followed, a producer into that all. You'd work with someone before and they take you from job to job.
00:44:19:00 - 00:44:19:20
Abigail Dankwa
Do you know what I mean?
00:44:19:20 - 00:44:21:10
Ashley Golder
Yeah. You learn from them.
00:44:21:10 - 00:44:39:11
Abigail Dankwa
Learn from them. And then at some point, someone who likes you puts you into another role, and you do that role, and then someone likes you and puts you to another and you get promoted that way. But those people who are giving you all those promotions have done the same thing themselves, but no one's necessarily trained them properly how to do it.
00:44:39:11 - 00:44:42:22
Abigail Dankwa
So some people are learning not great management skills and.
00:44:42:22 - 00:44:43:24
Ashley Golder
You're learning from them.
00:44:43:24 - 00:44:56:13
Abigail Dankwa
You haven't had great management skills given to them. Do you know what I mean? So yeah, but for the most part, the industry I like to think is a good industry. It's just we're going through a very, very awkward time at the moment.
00:44:56:13 - 00:44:57:11
Ashley Golder
Really bumpy.
00:44:57:11 - 00:45:05:20
Abigail Dankwa
Yeah. And I, I know what I don't know how you know, no one knows how long it's going to be. And I'm. Yeah.
00:45:05:22 - 00:45:12:04
Ashley Golder
I mean, that leaves me depressingly. Yeah. Until my next question go and and almost last question.
00:45:12:04 - 00:45:16:05
Abigail Dankwa
Well, could we enter the high. Well, I wanted to say what director the I mean.
00:45:16:05 - 00:45:23:16
Ashley Golder
The question is what's next for you? Do you have anything planned ahead? Is there something that you really want to work on and say skills that you want to acquire?
00:45:23:16 - 00:45:40:19
Abigail Dankwa
Yes, I do to me it changes all the time. I go through periods of going, oh, I love this one. Say this. And then I'm like, oh, so no, I just want I've been very fortunate in the kind of stuff that I've done so far. I just want to do more of the stuff I've done. I love the kind of stuff I've been doing.
00:45:40:21 - 00:45:53:11
Abigail Dankwa
I've done some great shows, and I've worked with some great people and I want to continue that. I would love to do, like a big Saturday entertainment show. Yeah, that's for the future. That's not for right now. But yeah.
00:45:53:14 - 00:46:04:13
Ashley Golder
When we're talking about not risk opportunities, yeah, we want someone to give you the opportunity to get your hands on a big Saturday entertainment show.
00:46:04:14 - 00:46:07:17
Abigail Dankwa
Better start talking to commissioners and production companies. I'm there my behalf.
00:46:07:17 - 00:46:15:18
Ashley Golder
I'm putting a call out now, if you're listening to this, Abigail Dankwa will be awesome.
00:46:15:20 - 00:46:21:23
Abigail Dankwa
Yes, especially if you pay her. Well. And let me bring the crew that I want.
00:46:22:02 - 00:46:24:02
Ashley Golder
Now she'll work for three months for free.
00:46:24:04 - 00:46:29:06
Abigail Dankwa
So those days are over. You're late. So if that's what you're expecting on that.
00:46:29:06 - 00:46:40:23
Ashley Golder
No. How can somebody get in touch with you? Not necessarily for a job, but if they want to either just say thank you for this podcast or if they want to get in touch with your mindset. Money coaching. Where can someone get in touch?
00:46:40:24 - 00:46:42:04
Abigail Dankwa
LinkedIn is for the best place.
00:46:42:05 - 00:46:43:21
Ashley Golder
LinkedIn link find you on LinkedIn.
00:46:43:23 - 00:46:53:11
Abigail Dankwa
Abigail Dankwa Yeah, just if you just put that into search, I should be the first one that pops up. Give me time for like, get back to you on time. Okay, kids out there, she's.
00:46:53:11 - 00:46:54:03
Ashley Golder
A busy person.
00:46:54:05 - 00:46:55:06
Abigail Dankwa
We're all busy.
00:46:55:06 - 00:46:56:04
Ashley Golder
But have a girls.
00:46:56:04 - 00:47:00:09
Abigail Dankwa
Really? No, don't say that. We are all busy.
00:47:00:09 - 00:47:07:21
Ashley Golder
On that note, thank you for taking the time out of your very busy schedule to talk with me for TV makers. It's been such a pleasure.
00:47:07:23 - 00:47:09:24
Abigail Dankwa
Thank you for asking me. I hope it was fine.
00:47:09:24 - 00:47:15:01
Ashley Golder
So good. Really? Yep, yep.
00:47:15:03 - 00:47:36:14
Ashley Golder
And that's a wrap on this episode of TV makers. What did you think? I thought it was great. I thoroughly enjoyed my conversation. So another thanks to Abigail Dankwa for sharing her insights on what it takes to be a multi-cam director. I'd really love to know what you thought. Have you ever been called a risk before? Might you look at your next unknown hire maybe as an opportunity instead?
00:47:36:16 - 00:47:56:22
Ashley Golder
What did you take from this conversation? Get involved with your comments. You can find us on Instagram @tvmakerspod, or reach out directly via email on podcast@tvmakers.co.uk. You can also find Abigail on LinkedIn. Just search for her name and she'll come right up. If you're enjoying the series so far, there is so much more to come.
00:47:56:22 - 00:48:16:17
Ashley Golder
We've only scratched the surface, so take out your phone and hit that subscribe button so each new episode drops right into your feed every couple of weeks. And if you found value in these conversations, leaving a review really helps keep this show going strong. So if you have the time, just drop in some comments. It's really appreciated. But that's it from me.
00:48:16:17 - 00:48:21:23
Ashley Golder
My name is Ashley Golder and I'll see you soon for another episode of TV makers. Take care.