TV Makers
TV Makers is a podcast that takes listeners behind the scenes of the TV industry, interviewing professionals in various roles to gain insights into their work. Host Ashley Golder speaks with the likes of Steadicam operators, Production Managers, Directors, Lighting Technicians, and more, covering all aspects of the TV world. In each episode, we delve into the intricacies of their roles, learning about the challenges and rewards of working in the industry. With episodes released every two weeks, TV Makers is perfect for TV enthusiasts, aspiring industry professionals, and veterans with years of experience. Subscribe now on your preferred platform and follow @tvmakerspod on Instagram and Twitter for more content.
TV Makers
Ep 27: Alex Segal - Talent Agent
Talent Agents! — cloaked in TV myth as orchestrators of extravagant demands, from bowls of blue M&Ms to first-class travel for their star clients. Let’s separate fact from fiction and uncover what really goes on in the world of talent representation!
This week we’re joined by Alex Segal, Managing Director of InterTalent, one of the UK’s largest talent agencies. With over a decade at the helm, Alex shares what it takes to sign, manage, and book talent. Oh, and about that word “talent”… should we even be using it? We’ll talk about that too!
We’ve seen an avalanche of “talent” self-destruct in recent years, leaving chaos in their wake. So, how do Talent Agents stop their clients from getting too big for their proverbial boots—and how can they help steer them back on track?
You can learn more about Talent agents with Alex's extremely honest blog "Dealmakers" here and check out InterTalent here!
If you’ve been enjoying the series, please share, rate, and subscribe. We’d love to hear from you—drop us a comment in your podcast app or connect with us on Instagram at @tvmakerspod, where we post all our behind-the-scenes content.
Got any questions or ideas for future guests? You can email us at podcast@tvmakers.co.uk.
Recorded and Edited by Ashley Golder - https://ashleygolder.tv/
Instagram @tvmakerspod
Email: Podcast@tvmakers.co.uk
Artwork by Benjamin Leon -
Instagram: @benleondraws
Website: www.benleondraws.com
00:00:03:01 - 00:00:29:16
Ashley Golder
Welcome back to TV makers. In our last episode, we dove into the world of talent management with the brilliant Kimberly Godbolt. This week we're continuing that theme, but shifting the focus onto talent agents. The masterminds behind the scenes cloaked in TV myth as orchestrators of extravagant demands from bowls of blue M&Ms to first class travel for their star clients.
00:00:29:18 - 00:00:55:03
Ashley Golder
But let's separate fact from fiction and uncover what really goes on in the world of talent representation. To help enlighten us, I am joined this week by Alex Segal, Managing Director of InterTalent, one of the UK's larger talent agencies with over a decade at the helm. Alex shares what it takes to sign, manage and book talent. Oh, and that word talent.
00:00:55:05 - 00:01:17:21
Ashley Golder
Should we even be using it? We'll talk about that too. When do celebs, presenters and artists cross the line? From taking a little to taking too much? We've all seen an avalanche of talent self-destruct in recent years. So how does a talent agent stop their clients from getting too big for their proverbial boots? And how can they steer them back on track?
00:01:17:23 - 00:01:45:13
Ashley Golder
All this whilst also maintaining those crucial industry relationships? Oh, and a quick heads up. We touch on traitors, but no spoilers though. This episode was recorded in late 2024 with a mention of Harry from series two, so rest assured we're 100% faithful. You don't need to worry about what's coming up if you've not seen series three. So with all that said, let's dive into this conversation with talent agent Alex Segal.
00:01:45:15 - 00:01:49:00
Ashley Golder
Alex, welcome along to the TV makers podcast. How are you today?
00:01:49:01 - 00:02:14:13
Alex Segal
I'm very good. Thank you for having me. We're currently sitting in our soundproof back music room. We have a music team who love to blast music and we need it's a pillar to soundproof room otherwise because everything's open plan. So otherwise, yeah, everyone would just have music blaring at them all day. So this is our funky room. We've got lanyards of all the artists we've all been to, and whenever I've made sure that my Bruce Springsteen lanyard is front and centre somewhere, but no business is good with.
00:02:14:15 - 00:02:30:04
Alex Segal
We moved to Soho about a year ago from Fitzrovia, where we've been for over a decade, and now we've come to Soho. I don't think we could ever leave. I mean, you know, walking in and out the streets of Soho every day is pretty cool. It makes it makes it fun to come to work, to be in Soho.
00:02:30:04 - 00:02:40:22
Alex Segal
So yeah, it's been it's great to move here and, yeah, it's been busier than ever this year. You just call me after meeting with our accountant and he's happy. So as long as he's happy, I'm happy.
00:02:40:24 - 00:02:48:14
Ashley Golder
As long as the money's coming in. That's it then. Everyone's happy. Well, first of all, then just give us a summary as to what you do.
00:02:48:15 - 00:03:11:06
Alex Segal
So, I'm the managing director of Inter Talent, which is one of the most well known and, biggest talent agencies in the UK with 33 years old. I think is this year. And given, you know, I'm 30, I, I'd like to remind, my chairman, who is the founder of this company, that I was five when he started it, which, which doesn't always go down particularly a ten, I think.
00:03:12:04 - 00:03:36:09
Alex Segal
But the truth is, is we've gone through so many guises as a company. We've changed names, we've changed styles, we've obviously changed a lot of personnel over the years. I've been here for over 12 years now, but what we've been doing in the last four years, which is in line with myself becoming more of the company and having a different vision of how things are being done before, I think for me has been the most exciting period that we've had in a long time.
00:03:36:09 - 00:03:57:20
Alex Segal
And and what we've done very quickly in the last four years is a talent agency, I guess mirrors also what the industry has done. The industry has rapidly evolved in four years since Covid, I would say. But in terms of what we do, you know, we create opportunities and managed really fun, creative people, very diverse in terms of who they are and what they do.
00:03:57:22 - 00:04:03:01
Alex Segal
And some are very well established that you don't know, and some are people that hopefully, you know, in the future.
00:04:03:03 - 00:04:30:19
Ashley Golder
Well, you represent people like, I mean, Susanna Reid, Joan Collins, Omid Djalili, Mark Wright. Yeah, it was lovely. I've worked with him before. Yeah. Scarlett Moffatt amongst others. What do you think is understood about the role of a talent agent? And I think we'll talk about talent agent as a whole. What do you think is understood universally for what a talent agent does compared to what you think it actually is when you dive down into it?
00:04:30:19 - 00:04:53:04
Alex Segal
Yeah, I think it's one of those jobs that even people in the industry aren't totally sure what I do. And the truth is, that's fine. You know, there's no university degree. There's no I've never met a kid who wants he wants to grow up to be an agent. You know, I don't you know, it's a job that you work out somewhere along the line, that it exists.
00:04:53:04 - 00:05:11:24
Alex Segal
And it's a job that you think sounds great. It's like the behind the scenes or the business side of this. And at some point you kind of get intrigued by it. And I think, I think the truth is, is I get a lot of people who either don't know or just go, oh, you just do deals and take money.
00:05:11:24 - 00:05:48:23
Alex Segal
Like a very basic level of like, maybe they've watched entourage or Jerry Maguire or just anything to give you a base level, like that's what an agent does. But the truth is, what we do is very complex, and what we do takes skill and takes expertise and takes experience and takes not just being good at one thing. So ultimately, the very base level of my day is I want to find my clients or create for my clients great job opportunities and get them paid as well as they can, and have a lot of fun doing it and be very creative.
00:05:48:23 - 00:06:07:19
Alex Segal
All of that's important. On top of that, there are things that also happen. You know, you have to be you're doing contracts on the job. You've got them. You're you're dealing in negotiation. You're helping them work out the logistics of how got on Monday. They've got to be in in Cardiff and on Tuesday they've got to be in Glasgow.
00:06:07:19 - 00:06:39:06
Alex Segal
On Wednesday they've got to be in New York. In your work working out how you do that. And you also have to manage a lot of the personal stuff of being an agent. So you also end up like a therapist out there. You know, it's a very, you know, talented people are often very anxious or nervous people or, you know, and you have to be with them along the way when you get good news and you get bad news and you know, you're not not just getting them jobs, you're also looking after every facet of what it takes to allow them to be the best version of themselves.
00:06:39:06 - 00:07:03:09
Alex Segal
And that's just not about getting the job. That is about, making sure that everything else around all of this is working so that they can just focus on doing what they're great at, which is the work. So we spend a lot of time dealing with nuance and dealing with context and dealing with relationships and dealing with being the middleman between X is falling out with Y and Y once this.
00:07:03:09 - 00:07:12:04
Alex Segal
But this doesn't want to do this, and you don't get paid for that stuff. That's part of the package of of representing somebody.
00:07:12:06 - 00:07:23:13
Ashley Golder
I mean, that sounds like a lot. It also sounds like a lot of stuff that there isn't really I mean, there is in the grand scheme of things, but there's no real training.
00:07:23:17 - 00:07:24:15
Alex Segal
No
00:07:24:15 - 00:07:34:12
Ashley Golder
for you guys to do. That just happens, I assume. So how do you learn it? How do you learn to be the therapist, the person to cry on, but also the negotiator, the contract person?
00:07:34:14 - 00:07:58:15
Alex Segal
That's a really good question. And it's something that well, there's two things about that. The first thing to say is, is that you should learn it by working your way up like you would do in most professions. I wouldn't be where I am in my career if I wasn't an assistant at amazing places. Starting as an intern, then an assistant, and working with top agents.
00:07:58:15 - 00:08:22:13
Alex Segal
You know, above me who have top clients and you just learn, right? Like anyone learns in any job, you know, you just gain experience, right? And you learn by working with those that know, such as a knowledge of your industry, who makes that show, who has the power? Why has. I'm just thinking of top of my head. Why has Warner Brothers bought discovery?
00:08:22:13 - 00:08:52:13
Alex Segal
Why? What does that mean? What does that mean for this? What does it mean for that? This is what your clients are expecting of you, that you have knowledge and you know it. And those things like just knowing our industry are things that I think is really obvious. But so a lot of people, they don't. So learning across it opens up a big and maybe we're too early into this, into this podcast, but it opens up a big conversation about whether agents should be regulated to do the job that they do, because the truth is.
00:08:52:13 - 00:08:53:07
Ashley Golder
Interesting.
00:08:53:07 - 00:09:15:07
Alex Segal
In entertainment. And by entertainment, I mean acting, TV, podcasts, social media. You don't have to be you can you actually, you could wake up tomorrow, have a friend who's gone viral on TikTok and go, I'm going to manage you and you can and legally you can and legally you can represent that person with no knowledge, no experience, no nothing.
00:09:15:07 - 00:09:31:17
Alex Segal
You can just do it. And what that means is, is you do have a lot of people who don't know what they're doing, but our industry allows for that. Not in every industry. In football, for example, you absolutely have to be regulated. In football, you have to take your exams to be a licensed intermediary, as they call their licensed agent.
00:09:31:17 - 00:09:51:06
Alex Segal
And I think that's a brilliant thing here in entertainment you don't. And we often find talent, great talent who come to us having had really bad experience, says. And nine times out of ten, they're not experiences with our competitors who, like us, have got great grounding and have been around for a long time and really train their staff.
00:09:51:06 - 00:09:57:08
Alex Segal
It's never those people. It's always the one man bands or the people that this or people that have to set up a company with their mates.
00:09:57:08 - 00:10:04:14
Ashley Golder
So what goes wrong then for the people who rock up and do it? What's the worst thing that could happen then, if they don't have the grounding that you spoken about?
00:10:04:14 - 00:10:18:09
Alex Segal
Well, very clearly you can ruin a person's career. That's that's the worst that can happen. Forget your own career. If you want to do that, fine. But you can ruin a person's career. Uncertain. I'm not stopping people wanting to come into the industry, and not some people wanting to be an agent, and I love the fact that people want to do it.
00:10:18:11 - 00:10:43:11
Alex Segal
I just think maybe because this is how I learn. So maybe I'm just thinking about things from my own personal experience that, you know, I spent four years assisting a really great agent, but in those four years I learn. And that was a great top to acting agency. And my boss, represents still does represent Daniel Radcliffe and Liam Neeson and Adrian Lester, Imelda Staunton.
00:10:43:11 - 00:10:59:11
Alex Segal
And so I gained obviously mega experience because I learned working with those people and working on big, big projects. But the I wouldn't change those four years for for anything. I wouldn't change it. So I became an agent in one year. You know, even at the end of the four years, I was like, am I ready now?
00:10:59:13 - 00:11:04:06
Ashley Golder
What was the best piece of advice or best learning experience that you took from that four years?
00:11:04:06 - 00:11:28:16
Alex Segal
Then the greatest thing that I learned is about people is about and, and I learned very quickly that I have to work with different people who have different styles. Every client I have works in different ways. Some clients chat to me as if I'm their best mate. Some chat to me as if I am their just advisor. Some people don't want a chat to me, some people, whatever it is and I can't be like, no, you do it my way.
00:11:28:18 - 00:11:47:13
Alex Segal
I'm very different with every client I have. I sound different with every client I have, and I sound different with every producer that I know and every channel that I talk to and everything of everything. And I had to learn very quickly how to be a chameleon and make sure that when we walk away from this table that we're shaking hands and we're happy to shake hands.
00:11:47:13 - 00:12:14:00
Alex Segal
We haven't beaten the other side into into submission that they actually want to now do this job. You know, because negotiation is hard. And if you feel like you've battered someone and you've like won, well, they've lost, but you've got to work with them. And how do I find a way where we get what we think is appropriate and, and proper for our client, but they're happy to also give it and that we can all walk away and go.
00:12:14:03 - 00:12:27:09
Alex Segal
We still love each other. We want to do this. And where agents get a bad name is when they go. They're hard to work with. They didn't understand what I wanted. They didn't they? They know what their clients needs are. But what about other needs? It's a partnership.
00:12:27:13 - 00:12:42:10
Ashley Golder
I've heard that before. In production offices, I very rarely have to deal directly with an agent. As a director, that's somebody else's job. But I have heard that in an office of like, you know, the I roll the agent's on the phone and there's always something that there.
00:12:42:12 - 00:12:59:01
Alex Segal
Shouldn't be, that it should be always agents on the phone. Let's work it out. It's also about your reputation. I think a lot of things can be taught. I tell you, what can't be taught is common sense. The two things that can't be taught to an agent. Number one, common sense. Number two, work ethic. I can't teach it.
00:12:59:01 - 00:12:59:24
Alex Segal
I've tried.
00:13:00:01 - 00:13:03:09
Ashley Golder
Doesn't have what work ethic are you going for?
00:13:03:11 - 00:13:24:11
Alex Segal
This job is not a 9 to 5, right? That's we can talk about work life balance. We can talk about all sorts. The truth is, is that rightly or wrongly, we can debate this on, you know, for hours. If you're not providing the service that your client would like, they will find someone else who will, and that other person will ask, what aren't you getting from your current agent?
00:13:24:11 - 00:13:39:24
Alex Segal
And they'll go, well, we'll give you that, right? It's dog eat dog. That's how it works. We all win clients, we all lose clients, and you win clients because you're trying to show somebody that you can do a better job than the last person. That's not a specific thing to an agent's. That's things to when you have to win clients.
00:13:39:24 - 00:14:00:10
Alex Segal
That's, you know, any any business. So work ethic is everything. What comes into your inbox is there to be done? Not a problem. But what about the stuff that isn't coming into your inbox? What about learning about your industry just because you want to learn? I always say to all of the people are different. Every division has their own websites and stuff.
00:14:00:10 - 00:14:16:23
Alex Segal
So for example, in acting you have the stage or what's on stage. Now in TV you have broadcast or you can also have, I guess if you're going global Deadline or Variety, you know, in our brands division, you have all the media magazines and you know, you know, all the advertising agency magazines. And I'm like, do you just like base level?
00:14:17:00 - 00:14:33:12
Alex Segal
You read those every day, right? The news that comes in every day, you know, those. If I was to ask you what won that award in Cannes for, for that ad of the year as my head of brands, you'll know that, right? That's something that doesn't just come into your inbox. That's something that you have to have the desire to do.
00:14:33:12 - 00:14:49:18
Alex Segal
So you have to have the desire to be at the top of your game and common sense. I guess it's just I find different assistants over the years, for example, and some have been really, really, really smart and like great smart air and some have been had common sense. But most and I would use common sense every day.
00:14:49:20 - 00:15:08:20
Ashley Golder
I agree, I think in my side of the industry for, you know, editorial, common sense, every single time I feel like I can teach the job. But getting someone, as you said, with, with the, the up and out, the one that wants just to really go for it, really learn. It's like, that's beautiful.
00:15:08:21 - 00:15:25:17
Alex Segal
It's also interest. I mean, maybe that's the third thing is, you know, do you actually watch stuff? Do you go to stuff like our acting division you have like, let's say the nominations list for the best, you know, film at the Oscars? You know, I expect our acting team to watch those films are the best films in the world of the of the year.
00:15:25:21 - 00:15:41:10
Alex Segal
You know, I'd like to hope that you've you've watched them, right? You know, or even, you know, when, you know, you got big shows on television in our TV department. You know, you are watching those shows, right? Like, how much do you actually care outside of being asked to care? I think that probably comes back to work ethic, probably is probably under that one umbrella.
00:15:41:10 - 00:16:03:10
Alex Segal
But they're the things that you can't teach me, but I can teach people like I was taught how to deal with commissioners, to producers, to casting directors. I always talk with how you negotiate. I was taught with what's important in the contract. I was taught all these things. But unless you have common sense and unless you have a work ethic, it's it's pretty meaningless.
00:16:03:12 - 00:16:09:17
Ashley Golder
Well, let's take you back. You're now the MD of into talent. So let's assume you're very good at what you do, right?
00:16:09:17 - 00:16:13:12
Alex Segal
Yeah. We can assume it.
00:16:13:14 - 00:16:25:03
Ashley Golder
I assume equally 12 years ago no further that 12 years in talent. But you were agent before here. Yeah. What were you like when you first entered the industry?
00:16:26:01 - 00:16:31:14
Alex Segal
Oh, God, I had hair. I had hair.
00:16:31:16 - 00:16:36:02
Ashley Golder
Who was your first client that you landed in? How did that feel?
00:16:36:04 - 00:16:58:20
Alex Segal
Wow. Okay. My memory tells me two different people, so I can't think what. Who came first? There was an actress called Carol Amiga. And then there was a guy called Jay Brown. And I was scared because when you're an assistant, it's not like it's not you. It's not on you. You know, you've got you, you've got your responsibilities.
00:16:58:20 - 00:17:19:18
Alex Segal
But ultimately, with client Succeed or leave or whatever, it's not on you, you know, you know, if you're terribly a job, you just get sacked and they bring in another assistant. I mean, it's really not on you. And suddenly you realize I'm asking somebody to put their career in my hands. And by that, I mean their jobs, their income, their mortgage, their rent.
00:17:19:18 - 00:17:21:07
Ashley Golder
The fact that, yes.
00:17:21:08 - 00:17:43:23
Alex Segal
Food on the table is that is a big responsibility. And one of the things I did learn from my old boss was how, like, really serious that responsibility is. And how you when you offer someone representation, you are making that serious offer that you will work your butts off to make sure you do everything you can. You can't promise anything.
00:17:44:00 - 00:18:15:12
Alex Segal
It doesn't always work, of course, but you you make a promise to someone that you will work so hard that they won't have to worry about putting food on the table, basically. And it kind of hit me really quickly when the first person said, yeah, I'll sign with you. It was either Crouch, I can't remember who came first, but they on my first day and I was so scared because suddenly you're like, oh God, like, this is an important job and you can go easy 1 or 2 ways.
00:18:15:12 - 00:18:34:17
Alex Segal
I've seen people that become agents and been very quickly and become agents, you know, because they've gone actually, that's not a responsibility I'm willing to take. So yeah, they were my first people. And, fortunately, they started working and you just moved from there and you gain a bit of confidence. It's a real confidence game. And you sort of go from there.
00:18:34:17 - 00:18:45:02
Alex Segal
I haven't, I haven't actually spoken or seen Carol in a long time, but Jay is someone who we don't get to see each other often, but we're bonded, very bonded. And he's a great guy.
00:18:45:04 - 00:19:07:20
Ashley Golder
Okay. So let's go back down the years. And so that's when you started. Yeah. Now you're where you are now. So you are an expert at what you do. Let's talk about negotiations. I think that's that's one of the big things before you get to the juicy stuff. Oh, man. So as you've already said, you know, agents although not into talent, but they can be hard.
00:19:07:23 - 00:19:25:07
Ashley Golder
They can be hard to work with, especially if a budget doesn't meet an expectation. How do you negotiate the best deal without one screwing over your client and without screwing over the partners that you're working with? You know, the broadcasters, the production companies?
00:19:26:09 - 00:19:55:08
Alex Segal
You have to know at the start what you think is fair and you have to know what the world is telling you. That comes back to knowing your industry, knowing what actually is right. And often people will come in with things that are lower and they'll come in with clauses in contracts that aren't fair and things that are very restrictive.
00:19:55:10 - 00:20:16:24
Alex Segal
And you have to genuinely believe that you're fighting for it for the greater good of all of it. And you have to be hard, but you have to be fair. And I think, listen, people have their own ways of doing business. My way of doing business is to be strong and assertive in what you're doing, but make friends along the way.
00:20:17:01 - 00:20:33:01
Alex Segal
I never want to leave a negotiation and someone says, I don't want to work with Alex anymore. I want to leave a negotiation. And now the person goes, look, it was hard. It was tough. We had to give a bit little. They had to give a little. And, you know, I didn't quite like that one conversation. But you know what?
00:20:33:03 - 00:20:50:13
Alex Segal
He's a nice guy as well. And actually, like he's good at what he does. But it's the preparation. You have to have spoken to your client. You have to have an understanding, maybe not spoken to them directly about this, but you need a real understanding of what's what is important to them, what is important to your client when they do a job.
00:20:50:13 - 00:20:52:06
Ashley Golder
And that might not be monetary?
00:20:52:08 - 00:21:09:03
Alex Segal
No, it might not be monetary. It might be, depending on who the client is, obviously, it might be just other things around it. If we're talking about a client of mine that is very well known, and we're talking about someone that is of profile and they're doing certain things, and, you know, it might mean that they want their own private space.
00:21:09:03 - 00:21:29:13
Alex Segal
They want maybe they want to ensure that X and Y can come with them. It might be that putting them in like a regular class on a train is not appropriate, because people are going to ask them for selfies for three hours on the train, and by the time they get to you that they're grumpy. You know, it might be that, you know, I've got one client who's nearly six foot seven and you putting him in economy on a plane.
00:21:29:13 - 00:21:45:11
Alex Segal
It's not going to be fun. For what? What? Ultimately, he can't fit. So it doesn't it work. But, you know, but you have to be able to explain that and go through it. And the truth is, is you give in a bit as well and you have to get a bit and ultimately you have to end up in a position with a deal that you can live with.
00:21:45:13 - 00:22:04:12
Alex Segal
There's that phrase, which I think is true is that you don't ever get what you deserve, you get what you negotiate, and everyone can say, I got underpaid for that and overpaid for that. It doesn't matter. Ultimately, the deal that you do is a deal that is there for that job, and you have to ensure that your client is happy they're happy.
00:22:04:12 - 00:22:18:16
Ashley Golder
So the art of negotiation is prep. It's talking with your client, figuring out what is important to them, going to your partners and relaying that in the best possible way. And then they say, no, we can't do that. What happens?
00:22:18:18 - 00:22:35:11
Alex Segal
Well, going back to the beginning of the prep is you have to know whether your client is willing to walk away or doesn't want to walk away, because it changes your tactic. It's all about tactics. I think that you have to talk to your client, first of all, and understand how they feel about the project and have an honest conversation.
00:22:35:11 - 00:22:53:06
Alex Segal
If we don't get the things that I would like us to get, do you still want to do it? Is it that kind of thing? And hopefully you agree on that? Or are you like, you know what, I'm okay if I know that. I know what kind of tactic I can use. If you've got a client who's like, you know what, Alex?
00:22:53:08 - 00:23:05:10
Alex Segal
I'm just genuinely not doing it. Like, this isn't even a game. I am not doing it. If we can't do X, Y, and Z, that really? That's great for me because I can go. Well, these are the kind of non-negotiables. And if you can't do them, then, you know.
00:23:05:15 - 00:23:12:03
Ashley Golder
Let's not waste each other's time. Yeah. What's been the worst negotiating experience you've had then? The worst.
00:23:12:05 - 00:23:31:01
Alex Segal
Negotiating experience. It's never about it. Here's the thing, right? I can't remember really off the top of my head, the worst negotiating experience. What I can really remember is are the rudest people. I think what I always walk away with is they're not very nice.
00:23:31:01 - 00:23:31:18
Ashley Golder
Yeah.
00:23:31:20 - 00:23:46:20
Alex Segal
And if I can help it, I don't want to work with them again. Obviously. Sadly, most of the time you end up meeting them back again in a few months or a year's time and you have to. But at least you know what you walk in, convince. See, the second time, again, you come as an agent. You can't put your own stuff in the way of what's right for your client.
00:23:46:24 - 00:24:04:01
Alex Segal
Absolutely not. But I don't remember, like, ever having an experience where I'm like, this is horrific, and I want to leave this industry and go and work in Tesco. I don't remember that. But I do remember people that I'm like, I hope I don't have to encounter you too often going forwards.
00:24:04:01 - 00:24:23:23
Ashley Golder
Yeah. And this industry, even though it's big, it's also small. Everyone talks. Everyone knows those people who are hard to work with. And you don't want to get a name because actually everyone's always looking for favors somewhere. You know, it's like, look, you know, we've got this budget, but how about and you know, what you're dealing with if someone's nice or not.
00:24:24:03 - 00:24:49:01
Alex Segal
But also you have to be smart in negotiation. You have to realize that there is more to the art of the deal than just what am I getting paid? Because you might not get all the way to where you are, but there are other ways to achieve other things. And that's also important. It could be backends, it could be IP, it could be, you know, having an equity stake.
00:24:49:04 - 00:25:06:19
Alex Segal
It could be other things that are important elsewhere, like the credit, like people were very, you know, keen on what credit they have on a show. So I think you have to map out the blue sky ambition, the gold ambition, knowing there might be a silver and bronze you don't really want end up in bronze and silver is okay.
00:25:06:21 - 00:25:11:16
Alex Segal
And let's see where we get to. And just try not to end up in bronze too often.
00:25:11:18 - 00:25:36:09
Ashley Golder
Yeah, that would be nice. Yeah. I want to go to something that Tim Davie mentioned a little while ago that he's trying to come. Tim Davie, controller of the BBC. He's trying to come away from the word talent. Yeah, of course it's in your name and talent. I want to know your opinion on that. You know, are we giving celebrities, singers, presenters etc. the umbrella of talent.
00:25:36:12 - 00:25:44:06
Ashley Golder
Are we giving them too much. And is that running away with the industry or is there something else. Well what's your thoughts on that?
00:25:44:07 - 00:26:05:12
Alex Segal
I it was really interesting to read that. I understand why he's done that within the BBC. I can understand the vast array of people in front of a camera on the BBC. And I guess you always like one word that might group just a load of people together, right? I understand why that that might be a good thing for what he wants to do at the BBC.
00:26:05:12 - 00:26:28:11
Alex Segal
I think in general though, it's about human beings. Are they nice or not and are they good people? I just, you know, I don't think that, it's any deeper than that really, in terms of giving them too much power. Of course, when you give anyone rope, it's very hard to take that rope back. It doesn't matter who you are, whether you're celebrities or not.
00:26:28:11 - 00:26:34:00
Alex Segal
You know, it could be it could be relatives. Doesn't matter who, like, you know. Yeah, but I think that, I.
00:26:34:00 - 00:26:52:06
Ashley Golder
Mean, for instance, I've worked on a show, I've worked on a reality show before where, you know, this person, reality, not a star at this point, does get. What the hell are you doing? I'm the talent. And you'll do what I say. And I'm the director at this point, and I'm like, what the fuck? Yeah.
00:26:52:08 - 00:27:07:08
Alex Segal
It comes back to being a nice person or not, though, but it also comes back to besides the fact that that person is clearly not a nice person, it's also comes back to the fact that they've probably not got a great manager either, because that behaviour’s not going to be a one off.
00:27:07:08 - 00:27:08:21
Ashley Golder
Well, I don't think they had one at that stage.
00:27:08:21 - 00:27:35:24
Alex Segal
That's probably a precedent. That's another problem. Also, when you're thrown into this industry, you know, we talk about duty of care and other things when you're thrown into an industry and being asked to sink or swim. I can appreciate that people and maybe things are thrown at them, you know, free stuff or loads of money or whatever I can appreciate without the right guidance and the right advice, which is a key part of what we do, that they do get an ego and they get carried away.
00:27:35:24 - 00:27:42:21
Alex Segal
And but ultimately it's not okay. It's not okay. And that has to be called out. And and I don't want us to work with anyone that would be like that.
00:27:43:01 - 00:27:55:13
Ashley Golder
I think that's really interesting. It's something I want to talk about then actually, is how do you guide how do you manage, especially when people have maybe gone too far? How do you bring them back?
00:27:57:09 - 00:28:11:07
Alex Segal
You have to be able to manage your client and not let your client manage you. So there is some cases where I know Tim will hate this, but I'll say talent, a talent.
00:28:11:09 - 00:28:12:10
Ashley Golder
Will.
00:28:12:12 - 00:28:33:11
Alex Segal
Go, I'm great. And the agent goes, yes you are. Of course you are. You're the best. I deserve this. Yes you do. I want that, of course. And they're scared. They're scared. They don't want to lose their talent and is scared that the talent might not like that. Just scare. Like whatever you want, whatever you want. And I understand that comes from a place of of anxiety and stress.
00:28:33:11 - 00:28:51:24
Alex Segal
And yes, losing a client, maybe a great client is not great. And I guess everyone's scared to lose clients, you know, so they go, whatever you want. You want to do that? Yes. And that's the wrong way to manage your talent. They're not paying you a commission to just agree with them. They're paying you to give honest advice.
00:28:51:24 - 00:29:11:16
Alex Segal
Now, if you like. We've spoken about, if you know the industry, you've got great relationships. You understand various things and all that. You should obviously have enough to make the right decision most of times as agents. So you have to kind of go, this isn't how it works. And I appreciate that. Between me and you, yeah, you're great, but we might not get that.
00:29:11:21 - 00:29:36:12
Alex Segal
Just going to pre-empt it now. And that might not go away this time. But that's fine. And don't worry. And that's not doesn't mean that that person is not giving it to you means they're decent at that. It just means it hasn't gone away this time. Let's just accept it. We mean we have to manage expectations, and we have to educate our talent on the rights and wrongs of how you are in this industry, because that's what they empower us to do.
00:29:36:12 - 00:29:41:23
Alex Segal
That's what we're in a position to do. And that's also what is part of our job.
00:29:42:00 - 00:30:04:17
Ashley Golder
But can you and your team spot your talent? You know, maybe their ego is starting to run away with them. And then do you mitigate that somehow before it blows up? I mean, even in the last couple of years, we've seen so many stories come out. So many where it's just it has blown up in their faces. And maybe with the right guidance, they could have the truth.
00:30:04:17 - 00:30:29:04
Alex Segal
The truth is, is that there are certain cases and I think quite a few cases actually recently where you can only know so much. And I think there's various cases where even the agents like, I didn't see that coming, and that's fair enough. You know, we can't be everywhere always. Yeah. And, you know, you have to hope that they're not treating people differently when you're not around.
00:30:29:07 - 00:31:05:22
Alex Segal
Right. But I think that it's hard. I'm not going to say it's not easy. And I'm not saying that anyone's perfect. That's it all the time. But you just have to really try hard to ensure good working practices. It's as simple as that. And I think we all want that. The last thing you want as an agent is to have a client who is great, who does something really bad, and then you have to drop them as a client because you know, so what anyone's and the truth is, is when those things happen and have happened a fair bit recently, it's kind of, you know, even as a competitor agency, I'm not going, oh,
00:31:05:22 - 00:31:21:24
Alex Segal
that was the agent not looking after them. Well, and not never, never, because they're with great people. And I know that if those people who had had a whiff of those things, I know that those people, even as are competitors with a stamp out. But as an agent, you have to do your best to guide them the right way.
00:31:22:04 - 00:31:35:04
Alex Segal
And don't let the other people guide you. You know, I'll give you a very brief example if you, by the way, if you haven't watched the traitors from January this year, pause this, because I'm about to spoil it. But, a young guy called Harry one the traitors, right.
00:31:35:06 - 00:31:36:03
Ashley Golder
Who, you know, manage.
00:31:36:03 - 00:31:56:13
Alex Segal
Who I know manage and my biggest concern, he won't mind me saying this. My one concern, when I was going through the process of putting my name in the hat and meeting him and signing him is he's 22. And I've got a feeling, given I was 22 once, that, you know, 22 year olds, you know.
00:31:56:18 - 00:31:57:21
Ashley Golder
Can be a bit silly, can.
00:31:57:21 - 00:32:13:14
Alex Segal
Be a bit silly and also just stay young. They're young. Right. And that's fair enough. You know, I'm not expecting him to be like a 60 year old man. And my biggest concern was, was am I going to have a lot of problems with the 22 year old? And it was something that I care a lot about. So I spoke to him a lot about that.
00:32:13:14 - 00:32:28:02
Alex Segal
When I was meeting him. I spoke to him about his actions and how he works with people and how he treats people. And I spoke to a few people on the traitors, and I don't even know if he knows it. And I spoke to the people that were powering him through the show and asked, how has he been with you and I?
00:32:28:03 - 00:32:43:17
Alex Segal
And doing your due diligence on someone is important when you're trying to sign someone. I always speak to people that I know them confidentially, of people that I know that I can trust and go, I think I'm about to sign X, tell me everything, or you've worked with them in the past. Would you work with them again?
00:32:43:17 - 00:32:58:08
Alex Segal
Like and if not, what's happened? You know, I think it's really important you do your due diligence about people that you hire and also because you know, you have reference and stuff, you should do it for the talent that you want to sign. So I got good feedback back on Harry, which is great.
00:32:58:08 - 00:33:00:24
Ashley Golder
Regardless of the program. He looks like a really decent guy.
00:33:01:01 - 00:33:20:04
Alex Segal
And actually, you know, the benefit of him being in the Army, being in the armed forces is that they teach you professionalism and they teach you structure. And therefore I've had only great experiences with him. But it was important to me not, you know, even though he want to show and even though I think he could be X, Y, and Z, it was really important to me that he was a good kid.
00:33:20:06 - 00:33:44:00
Alex Segal
I haven't got time running a company and managing the time. I have to now be chasing after an erratic 22 year old. So it was really important to me, and I think that I wouldn't have signed him actually if I had heard other things. But I think, don't let your client manage you because then, you know, as soon as you do that once, it's really hard to change the dynamic after that.
00:33:44:02 - 00:33:55:11
Ashley Golder
And I bet that's actually a really hard lesson for somebody in your industry to learn in something that your assistants are currently learning. Now, that's more of an experienced thing as opposed to a yeah.
00:33:55:13 - 00:34:14:17
Alex Segal
These are the kinds of things that you do teach. Yeah. And I do often say to our young agents, I'm like, I'm like, I know what it looks like on the surface. I can see how many followers they have. I can see who works with them. I can see all of that. But just go out to the industry and just make sure we know everything.
00:34:14:19 - 00:34:38:08
Alex Segal
You know, it's not bulletproof, obviously, but just doing your due diligence is important. I get really frustrated when we sign someone and I hear they're going to be X and they're going to earn Y, and they're going to do Z, and none of that happens. And I'm like, well, that's awful, because we clearly didn't want to diligence. We clearly have guessed.
00:34:38:10 - 00:34:58:03
Alex Segal
We've guessed that they're going to get that job, and we guess they're going to make hundreds of thousands of pounds and they haven't. And that's awful, because we haven't quite worked out all the all the insides of what goes on with this person. And also we haven't properly then realized how we were going to be creative with them.
00:34:58:04 - 00:35:19:00
Alex Segal
I think a lot of this comes back to planning, right? Everything we do, you know, the last thing you want as an agent is a surprise. You don't want surprises ever. You want to know what you're getting into at all times. So I think that, people don't plan enough, agents don't plan enough, and agents don't do enough due diligence before doing things.
00:35:19:02 - 00:35:37:13
Ashley Golder
So when you're signing somebody and I want to, I do want to ask, how do you spot talent? Because you mentioned that before. You can spot talent within 10s. Yeah, but once you've spotted talent, where do you go from there? Are you hoping that just someone picks it up, or are you planning their two, five and ten year life in front of you?
00:35:37:13 - 00:35:41:03
Ashley Golder
So let's go. For the first of all, how do you spot talent within 10s?
00:35:41:03 - 00:36:00:20
Alex Segal
Well, well, obviously it is different in a different division. I think we obviously I was growing up, in the acting world, I went to a lot of showcases, a lot of drama schools, and the more you put yourself in that environment, the better you get at it. Like anything. And I was taught by my old boss as to the kinds of things that I should look out for.
00:36:00:23 - 00:36:18:09
Alex Segal
So, for example, I'll give you a key thing in the acting world. The reaction, not the action, is very easy to watch someone do a monologue and it'd be really good. But what about when you're the other side of that, right? So I ended up watching a lot of plays where people weren't speaking or watching the other person.
00:36:18:09 - 00:36:37:12
Alex Segal
Everyone's heads are pointing right. I'm pointing left. But you can also tell within 10s because the first or 10s when somebody walks on maybe isn't directed. Are they in character straightaway? Do you are you just do you just gravitate to them? And it's nothing to do with speaking, and it's nothing to do with how you're directed. It's just to do with, like inhabiting a character.
00:36:37:12 - 00:36:58:03
Alex Segal
So very quickly in that world, I learn within 10s of someone walking on a stage, whether they had something. So I learned that, and it goes on to recruitment in our company. So the first 10s of meeting somebody before they tell me anything about their life and their skills, I kind of already know if I want them, pretty much I'll know how they are.
00:36:58:05 - 00:37:22:12
Alex Segal
If they've arrived on time, I'll know how they are, how they've dressed. I'll know how they are. If they're looking me in the eye or they're looking on the floor, I know how they are. If they just already seem fun and personable, you can tell that in 10s. I think we all have that knack in some way. And it goes now for people that I watch on social media because I'm obviously, you know, social media is short form on the whole.
00:37:22:14 - 00:37:29:10
Alex Segal
So 10s might be half of a whole video that you're watching, and I'll know within 10s whether I want to follow or subscribe that person. Have they grabbed me?
00:37:29:15 - 00:37:33:14
Ashley Golder
Once you spotted talent, then how do you pitch talent?
00:37:33:15 - 00:37:52:21
Alex Segal
Yeah, you do have strategy for all talent. Ideally you have a one year, three year, five year. That's how that's how we see it. And the this industry does has no rules obviously, and therefore you can't predict how you get from one year to 3 to 5 years. You just have to hope that you put enough out into the world that that it goes to plan.
00:37:53:02 - 00:38:13:17
Alex Segal
But how do I pitch to talent is it happens in many different ways, right? There's no rhyme or reason. If you've got a good reputation, then of course you hope that people recommend G number one. Number two comes back to being social, meeting people, getting out and about, being seen. God, Alex is there again. God Alex is at that again or Alex is doing that again.
00:38:13:17 - 00:38:15:21
Ashley Golder
And who are you trying to get in front of anyone?
00:38:15:21 - 00:38:34:20
Alex Segal
It depends on the world you're in, but anyone that is a decision maker, truth be told. So, it's important and so if we're pitching to talent, you've met them somehow. Either out and about, you've been recommended, you've messaged on social media. I don't know why. Whatever the way is, however you end up in front of somebody that you want to be in front of.
00:38:34:20 - 00:38:42:09
Alex Segal
Great. And first of all, let them speak. They need to speak first. I'm giving away my.
00:38:42:11 - 00:38:44:21
Ashley Golder
I'm giving it away as part of the negotiating table. Yeah, I'm.
00:38:44:21 - 00:39:03:06
Alex Segal
Giving away my skills. But it is important to understand before you start saying what you think they can do to find out actually what they want to do, there's no point saying go do Hollyoaks if they're about to say the first line, I don't want to do Hollyoaks, so let them explain who they are and where they want to go and why they're here.
00:39:03:08 - 00:39:18:07
Alex Segal
And then you can explain what you do and you can explain how you think you would get them there, and you can explain the challenges and also the things that you feel might be easy wins. And you can explain those things, explain how we work. Hopefully through that you get to know each other and see if you want to actually talk to this person every day.
00:39:18:09 - 00:39:35:04
Alex Segal
And you hopefully come to a position where you're like, I believe in you. We believe in each other. I believe I can get you there, and you believe that you can get me there. So let's try it. And we make no promises because this is a very difficult industry, and none more so than right now, can't make it right now.
00:39:35:04 - 00:40:01:12
Alex Segal
It's all make promises. You can just work hard and hopefully someone goes, all right, I believe that. And I again, this is a very big responsibility and you have to believe it. You shouldn't as an agent. You shouldn't lie to your client like that. If you genuinely if you have a client and you're like, I don't believe in them anymore, that thing that I said, we're going to do, I don't think we'll ever do it.
00:40:01:14 - 00:40:26:23
Alex Segal
You should just let them go because it's a it's really bad. I was taught this. It was it's really bad to represent someone you don't believe in anymore. It's doing both of you disservice. And it's also, a kind of disregard to the job that you've said you would do. And so I always say to our staff, if you have anyone where you fall in love or you just think that no matter how hard you try, it is not working.
00:40:27:00 - 00:40:42:02
Alex Segal
We have to think long and hard. Why you think you should still have them as a client? It's not fair. So, as long as you feel like you're still on the track and you're still doing a good job, it does matter if it's not working like that. As long as you still feel you're in a good place and you still feel it can come, and you still feel there's so much more to achieve.
00:40:42:04 - 00:40:47:07
Alex Segal
Not a problem. Can't promise results, but you can promise that you believe so.
00:40:47:07 - 00:40:59:10
Ashley Golder
They're on board. You believe 100%. What are your tactics as a talent agent to pitch that person in the best light to these commissioners, these executives, etc., etc.?
00:40:59:10 - 00:41:29:17
Alex Segal
Well, I think, we have a team of nearly 50 and we have ten different things going on, and therefore we've built ourselves to a point where it's very rare now to not be aware of something or aware of someone. So we have a really strong network and an understanding, and once we know where we want to go and what we want to do, then you have to start trying to build those inroads and it might be as simple as making a phone call, but they might also be like, look, I've just signed X, you should meet that person.
00:41:29:17 - 00:41:47:15
Alex Segal
You've never met them. Like, let's set something up and just try and really create their relationships as well. You know, if I sign someone and I go, oh, do you know them? And you know them and they say, no, you should, you need to. It's a business of relationships. And once we've signed them, you have to put that strategy into play.
00:41:47:17 - 00:42:01:13
Alex Segal
And the job you think will come first will come served and the job you think, well, content comes first and you have to accept that I'm a celebrity might not be this year, it might be next year. And that's fine as long as you're still on the right path.
00:42:01:15 - 00:42:03:12
Ashley Golder
With the strategy that you've created with what.
00:42:03:12 - 00:42:19:10
Alex Segal
Comes next. Yeah. And you just go from there and you and the strategy changes. Talking about Harry, for example, what he loves and he's into at 22 is not going to be what he's into at 30. So the strategy will change. And as long as we are in the same situation of believing in each other and agreeing that that's right.
00:42:19:10 - 00:42:21:06
Alex Segal
Now, then we kind of go from there.
00:42:21:06 - 00:42:36:12
Ashley Golder
In your experience what are the biggest mistakes talent agents can do? Individual people who are working for you or for your competitors, what do they do that they should learn from that? We can tell people listening to this to avoid.
00:42:37:09 - 00:42:38:12
Alex Segal
Guessing.
00:42:38:14 - 00:42:39:19
Ashley Golder
Guessing what?
00:42:40:23 - 00:43:00:19
Alex Segal
Everything. I think that a lot of people panic and go and say things that they actually don't know the answer to. So when a client calls and says, is that show fully cost and you don't know, you should say, good question. I haven't caught quite the latest news. Let me find out and I'll come back to you.
00:43:00:21 - 00:43:18:24
Alex Segal
Agents. Sometimes I do see it often, especially younger age groups of the guests, because they want to look like they know. The answer goes back to knowing our industry, and actually with confidence and experience comes the absolute thing that you don't know everything. Yeah. You know, it's great that your clients think, you know. So it's always okay.
00:43:18:24 - 00:43:24:14
Alex Segal
It's always okay to say, I don't know. Absolutely. It doesn't make you like a bad agent.
00:43:24:16 - 00:43:30:09
Ashley Golder
I think it's stronger. I'd much rather hear. I don't know, but I'll find out. Yeah. Then a bullshit answer.
00:43:30:09 - 00:43:54:08
Alex Segal
So guessing is something that is a pitfall that happens a lot. I also think goes back to not knowing your industry enough because you'll get caught out. What we spoke about before, clients managing you rather than you managing clients. That can happen a lot. Managing expectations is it is important and often doesn't happen enough. And also the agent, as we've touched on before, putting their egos in the way of their clients.
00:43:54:23 - 00:44:17:16
Alex Segal
It's not about me. It's about making sure that everything is right for your client. It's not about whether I like someone or not. It's not about whatever is in my head. Is this a good opportunity? Is it right for my client? It's one of those careers where experience wins. And I think back now to when I just started here 12 years ago, I cringe at the things I would have said and done and all that.
00:44:17:16 - 00:44:20:19
Alex Segal
And I look back now and I'm like, I knew nothing.
00:44:20:21 - 00:44:23:06
Ashley Golder
What did you say and do now? I have to answer that question.
00:44:23:06 - 00:44:37:17
Alex Segal
Oh, I just, I just thought I knew it all. I have no idea what I do now, but let's say back with 12 years ago, I have no idea how you even make shows. I've got no idea what that person does or, you know, they're things you don't really. You know, maybe you don't need to know. As an agent, I don't really need to know how the lighting operator works.
00:44:37:17 - 00:44:59:01
Alex Segal
I don't need to have a sound guy works. But if I didn't know, then I'm even better at my job. So, you know, it's back when I was an acting agent. It's so funny. I represented actors for seven years. Great actors, musicals, plays, TV, film, Shakespeare, whatever. I represented loads of actors. I never once in those seven years stepped foot into an audition room.
00:44:59:03 - 00:45:15:03
Alex Segal
I really at some point I think about now, should have gone cock. I said, no way that I can be in this room. I know it's not the done thing, but like, surely as part of my job, I should know what it feels like to be in an audition. So I think that I would say learn as much of your craft as possible.
00:45:15:03 - 00:45:33:20
Alex Segal
If you represent documentary filmmakers, it'll be really useful to know how documentaries are made. It's very easy to not know. And that only makes you a better agent. But again, it comes back to work ethic. That's not something someone's going to hold your hand and say to do. That's something. Whether you actually care enough to learn that stuff.
00:45:33:22 - 00:45:46:15
Ashley Golder
Well, I'll say if there's an agent or an upcoming agent listening to this now and they want to learn more about the industry, TV makers has a lot of other episodes about the industry. Feel free to go back. But this is exactly it.
00:45:46:17 - 00:45:51:10
Alex Segal
The the desire to want to listen to a podcast has to come from work ethic.
00:45:51:12 - 00:45:56:05
Ashley Golder
As we wrap up, I want to talk just I've got a couple of questions about future.
00:45:56:07 - 00:45:57:04
Alex Segal
Go for it.
00:45:57:06 - 00:46:15:16
Ashley Golder
You've been MD for In Talent since 2020, November 2020. There's been a lot of changes that we've seen in that for years and many more to come. Our whole TV industry especially is like turning on its head. Where do you see that going? Especially from a talent agent perspective?
00:46:15:18 - 00:46:36:13
Alex Segal
I see it continuing to change and not going backwards. So this whole idea that things will come back to how it was, I don't see that. I see just being different. You have to evolve. I've seen a bit of uproar recently about ITV putting out a job spec for somebody to work within.
00:46:36:13 - 00:46:41:19
Ashley Golder
I yeah, to work up new ideas by using artificial intelligence.
00:46:41:19 - 00:47:02:11
Alex Segal
Right. And I think that I don't have the opinion that some people are having to I want people to lose jobs because if I absolutely not, cannot replace organic creativity. Absolutely not. No, I think we're all in agreement about the basics of what we don't want it to be. Of course, I think we can all agree that I don't want AI versions of my clients, because then what's the point of me?
00:47:02:11 - 00:47:07:23
Alex Segal
I think we're all in the agreement that we don't want bad AI, let's put it that way.
00:47:07:23 - 00:47:09:00
Ashley Golder
But it is coming.
00:47:09:01 - 00:47:41:08
Alex Segal
It is coming. And you have two options. Either you evolve and you can hopefully succeed, or you get left behind. That's a fact. ITV are being smart now. Maybe the job spec, they could have worded it better and I suspect they're not going to start making loads of AI shows. However, the idea that they want somebody in-house involved all day, every day in AI, working out ways they can make all of their products better is not just unique to ITV, everyone's doing it.
00:47:41:10 - 00:47:58:14
Alex Segal
And also they should do it because it's coming. We can ignore it if we want, or you can embrace it and use it for good. Listen, when I started out we were using fax machines and I mean, I'm only 38, but we were using fax machines and you know, and all of this, and now you have your emails and you find you we're just evolving again.
00:47:58:14 - 00:48:16:12
Alex Segal
And I think that we just have to accept it. And an agency like ours, we have to evolve. We will get left behind if we stand still. That was a key thing when I got the job, I was like, we're not standing still. We're going to run as hard as we can, as fast as we can, ideally quicker than our competitors.
00:48:16:14 - 00:48:17:22
Alex Segal
Be as cutting edge as we can.
00:48:17:22 - 00:48:27:00
Ashley Golder
But in all due respect, it's a lot of buzzwords. But what does that mean? Like, how are you changing yourselves to make sure you don't get left behind.
00:48:27:03 - 00:48:35:22
Alex Segal
By getting experts and by trying it? So our NFT division was a prime example of that. For the 18 months that NFTs was a thing.
00:48:35:24 - 00:48:40:17
Ashley Golder
Massive thing. I even did a VTi for the one show about NFTs. That was that was a waste of my time.
00:48:40:17 - 00:48:58:18
Alex Segal
And, so we so very quickly, very quick story, there was somebody this was, let's say, three months before anyone had ever really heard of NFTs, but someone else who runs a music company is very into digital art, was very much ahead of the curve because he was just into that world, and he came to me one day and said, we need an NFT division.
00:48:58:20 - 00:49:01:23
Alex Segal
And I was like, that I don't know what you just said.
00:49:01:23 - 00:49:03:02
Ashley Golder
What is an NFT?
00:49:03:07 - 00:49:18:06
Alex Segal
And he said, look, go away for 24 hours, go down a rabbit hole on Google and learn as much as you can, and you can learn a lot in 24 hours if you put your mind to it. And let's have a chat again. So I'll go down a rabbit hole. I'm like, wow, this is cool. I don't understand all of it, but this is really cool.
00:49:18:09 - 00:49:33:09
Alex Segal
He does. So that's great. And he came to me and said, what do you think? And I said, what do you need? He said, I want to start a division. I said, I thought we started it yesterday. He said, no, I said, no, let's just that's what we're like. We're like, let's go. I know that a lot of our competitors need three, four months to work things up.
00:49:33:09 - 00:49:45:16
Alex Segal
So I was like, okay, we've got an NFT division. What do we need now? So I sat down with the team that we had and said, right, who has heard of NFTs? Is no one who here wants to work on something they never heard of? Six people put their hand up because that's the kind of people I like to hire.
00:49:45:16 - 00:50:07:00
Alex Segal
Nice. I go, great, you're head of marketing, your head of product, your head of creative, and let's go work on something we know nothing about. And we mucked up loads, obviously, but we did some really cool stuff. And then within six months we were making NFTs for Manchester City and other places and doing. And so yes, it's a buzz word, but you just do it.
00:50:07:05 - 00:50:22:18
Alex Segal
The next vision for us is going to be an AI division 100%. It's not going to be soon because we want to do it in a smart way. You want to do it in the right way. I can't tell you how will do it. It's not going to take everyone's job. It's not going to be that. But guaranteed everyone will have AI division soon.
00:50:22:20 - 00:50:37:01
Alex Segal
I just would like to do it quicker than other people. I'd rather not be the last in, anyone that thinks that AI is something we should ignore. It's like ignoring YouTube. Now that's crazy. Now that was what you did. You go, oh, you're a YouTuber.
00:50:37:05 - 00:50:41:23
Ashley Golder
Yeah. Collectively they do more views and all of broadcast channels combined so well.
00:50:41:23 - 00:50:46:15
Alex Segal
I think that we have to embrace it. And, yeah, that's what we try to do here for sure.
00:50:46:17 - 00:51:08:02
Ashley Golder
Well, Alex, I have thoroughly enjoyed our conversation here. And like, I feel like we've just hit the tip of the iceberg. I know that you have a very handy blog that actually helped me with my research and on what you do and how you do it. So if somebody wanted to learn more about being a talent agent or get in touch with you, where do they go and how might they do that?
00:51:08:02 - 00:51:27:05
Alex Segal
So it's on Substack, it's called dealmakers with Alex Siegel. And every month I write a blog about the inner workings of being a talent agency and why and what agents do and why they do it, and what agencies do and why they do it. And just trying to dispel some myths and and explain a bit more about this world is hard to know about if you don't live in it.
00:51:27:09 - 00:51:31:00
Ashley Golder
And if somebody wanted to get in touch with you or your team, why might they go.
00:51:31:05 - 00:51:48:17
Alex Segal
Well, listen, everyone can email me. Listen, if you go to our website, everyone's emails are on there and everyone can get in touch. And, yeah, anyone can be in touch. I really, I really appreciate I have a lot of people to get in, touch off the blog and ask more questions or anything and, yeah, listen, we're always interested in finding great new stars of tomorrow, and those stars could be agents.
00:51:48:18 - 00:51:51:02
Ashley Golder
Alex, thank you so much for being on TV makers.
00:51:51:07 - 00:51:53:14
Alex Segal
Thank you so much.
00:51:53:16 - 00:52:12:11
Ashley Golder
And there you have it. I hope this has been helpful for anyone looking to level up in the talent agent world. And for those of you who regularly find themselves on the other end of the phone negotiating with agents, I hope it's giving you a clearer understanding of how they operate and some tips to make those conversations run just a little bit more smoothly.
00:52:12:13 - 00:52:38:05
Ashley Golder
If you've been enjoying the series, please share, rate and subscribe! I'd love to hear what you think. So drop a comment in your podcast app or connect on Instagram at TV Makers Pod, where all the behind the scenes content gets posted. You can also email using The Address podcast at TV makers echo.uk. If you have any questions or ideas for future guests, a big thank you to Alex for joining me today and to all of you for listening.
00:52:38:07 - 00:52:42:06
Ashley Golder
My name is actually Golda and you've been listening to TV makers. Take care.