Lost in Jersey
So close to NYC, New Jersey is a melting pot of creativity, ambition, and culture. Everyone has a Jersey story and on Lost in Jersey, we’re here to share them with you.
Lost in Jersey
BATMAN 1989 Untold Origin Story from Jersey!
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The Bat-Signal lit up the sky because one Jersey kid had a vision: bring a darker, more human Batman to the big screen. In this episode, Michael Uslan—the executive producer behind every Batman film since 1989—shares how his childhood love for comics sparked a cinematic revolution.
Uslan takes us from Ocean Township to Hollywood, revealing how a decade of rejection, a strategic law degree, and lunch with Tim Burton helped erase the campy legacy of the 1960s Batman. Hear behind-the-scenes stories about Jack Nicholson’s Joker, the uproar over Michael Keaton’s casting, and the marketing blitz that created full-blown “Batmania.”
Now chairman of the New Jersey Film Commission and with his memoir headed to Broadway, Uslan reflects on Batman’s lasting legacy—and the heartwarming moment a group of West Point cadets turned his story into their own battle cry.
"The Boy Who Loved Batman" book
New Jersey Motion Picture and Television Commission
New Jersey Hall of Fame Class of 2025!
The Dark Knight is #28 on the New York Times Best Movies List
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Meeting Michael Uslan, Batman Film Producer
Speaker 1Hi Rachel , hey Jeanette , so we just got off a epic interview .
Speaker 2Super Michael Uslan is the executive producer of all the Batman films since 1989 . But he is more than just that . We have read his book the Boy who Loved .
Speaker 1Batman . He is from New Jersey and he has a lot of Jersey pride and he talks about his journey from being a kid really interested in comic books and his passion . Once he discovered Batman being a human , it really resonated with him . It is an incredible story .
Speaker 2He explains how , even you know , with all the ups and downs and tons of rejections , that he just kept persevering and also relying on his community , his family , his friends , and made his dreams happen . And now his story is the basis of a Broadway show . That's right .
Speaker 1Coming to .
Speaker 2Broadway next year .
Speaker 1You say in the interview that you know he's an extraordinary human and he tries to push back on it , but I do think he's quite extraordinary .
Speaker 2Yes , we're going to call it , he's a superhuman .
Speaker 1There needs to be a comic book about him . Yeah , so with that , please enjoy this interview with Michael Uslan . Welcome , michael Uslan . It's so nice to have you on Lost in Jersey .
Speaker 2Thank you . If there's any place in the world I'd prefer to be lost in , it is definitely New Jersey . Good to hear we were lost here for a while , but I think we're slowly acclimating and becoming found , yeah , after 20 years .
Speaker 3Yeah , the worst loss I was ever in New Jersey was just after I got my driver's license at age 17 . I was approaching Eatontown Circle and couldn't figure out how to get off of it , so I was just going around in circles for the better part of the next year .
Speaker 2But other than that I've done pretty well . That's like the European vacation , that's right .
Speaker 1You have navigated New Jersey very well and your whole entire career very well . I want to tell people how I got introduced to you , and it was at the New Jersey Film Expo . It was an incredible first rollout for the expo . I was really very impressed . I'm sure you were very happy with what you saw as well .
Speaker 3It was amazing . What's happening in New Jersey now in terms of motion picture and television and digital production is , I think , the number one success story in the entire industry . At this point In Los Angeles the industry is in a state of depression I mean depression but here we are booming and every year significantly tops the year before . I think over the next few years Hollywood will become more a state of mind than a physical place , and everybody in LA is talking about New Jersey becoming Hollywood East .
Speaker 1I remind them that Hollywood is simply New Jersey . West of Hollywood , you keep finding
New Jersey's Film Industry Boom
Speaker 1your connections back to New York . You know , it's just everybody seems to be from the East side that you were connecting with when you were there too . So I love that it all comes back to the East coast .
Speaker 3Yeah , it really is true in so many ways . When I first started in the industry , it was hard to find people in LA who were native born . They were mostly transplants and largely from New York , new Jersey area . That's changed now and there's new generations that are homegrown LA and unfortunately now , due to lack of jobs and opportunities , are looking to see what other states they could come to . So I think one of the things that we're most proud of is , unlike some states , we bill ourselves as the most diverse state in the union and we want diversity . We want people to come here and be a part of this with us , and we even offer a New Jersey special tax incentive diversity bonus , which is an additional 5% if your cast and crew meet our requirements for diversity , and that includes male , female . So we're very proud of who we are and that's one of the reasons we're being so successful ?
Speaker 1First , can you tell people what your role is with the New Jersey Commission ?
Speaker 3Yeah , I'm chairman of the New Jersey Film Commission and I've been a member of the Film Commission since , I believe , 1984 . So I've been around the block a little bit with this over many governors and Governor Murphy , in a bipartisan effort , has really done a tremendous job in giving us every tool we need to attract filmmaking to New Jersey , as evidenced very , very plainly by the groundbreaking recently at Fort Monmouth of Netflix Studios . It's going to be followed soon in Bayonne . We have under construction Lionsgate Studios in Newark and things are happening and the Film Commission does an extraordinary job working under economic development authority and the unions are partners in this and everybody's working real hard to make it work and what is generating all of this ?
Speaker 1I know that tax credits are a big generator of films coming in . Is this a burden on the average New Jersey citizen and taxes or anything like that ?
Speaker 3No , it's not because the return on investment is huge , and shortly they'll be coming out with some facts and figures about how tremendous the return on investment has been . It's totally about economic development , job training and jobs . That's the whole thing . And when you get to take Meadowlands Arena , which has gone through many names , that was just sitting there like a latke doing nothing after the sports teams left and within 30 days of the tax credit we have turned it into TV studios and I think we're up to the seventh , or now maybe the eighth , TV series shooting there and it's an absolute hub of economic development and jobs and that's what this whole thing is about . And it's having a great positive economic impact on the state . A bonus is it increases our tourism because it improves and increases New Jersey's image around the world Around the world . When I first started in this business , when executives or talent heard I was from New Jersey , I had to listen to every Tonight Show in New Jersey .
Speaker 3But the turning point being the Sopranos and the Seaside Heights Beach House for music , all of a sudden Jersey became cool and also we started to get Sopranos like respect .
Speaker 2So we needed a mafia to make us look cool .
Speaker 3I think what we need is Bruce Springsteen . I think it starts and stops right there .
Speaker 1It is true . Well , you know , that's the thing about . What's really interesting about your story is that you are from New Jersey and you have had such incredible success . Rachel and I think you were nominated for New Jersey Hall of Fame recently .
Speaker 2I'm like who better Thank you To start , though where you're , how you grew up , because , reading your book , we really just
Growing Up in Jersey with Supportive Parents
Speaker 2enjoyed hearing , first of all , your infectious joy come through the page , but your voice your voice when you talk about your family , and one thing that really stuck out to me is how you said that you grew up with a dad that loved his job , loved , loved , loved and woke up every day and loved going to work as a Mason , and I'd love to just hear a little bit more about your family .
Speaker 3Yeah , my dad was extraordinary . He had to drop out of day on high school when he was 16 to go to work to help his family survive the Depression . And my dad , as a Mason , was an old world artist . He was a craftsman and I wish I would take you on a tour down the shore of the homes he built , the fireplaces , the chimneys that are still standing today , that are so magnificent . And he worked six days a week from age 16 to age 80 . Loved what he did . He worked on days like today . You know 98 degrees New Jersey humidity through the roof . He worked in the snow , but every morning before dawn he got out of bed . Six days a week , big smile on his face let's get the day started , can't wait to get to work .
Speaker 3And my older brother , paul , and I , growing up in that house how can you not want that for yourself ? How could you not want to say on a rainy Monday morning oh boy , I can't wait to get to work and that's the magic of this whole thing ? So my dad had my brother and I work construction for him during summers in high school . It was terrible . We were tarring foundations and carrying bricks and cement . It was awful , but that was my dawning and when my dad told me okay , go out and find your own bricks and stones .
Speaker 3And , based on my upbringing as this geeky kid , I knew early on it had to be comic books and superheroes and cartoons and movies and TV . That's where my heart was , that's where my head was . But what do you do when you're a blue collar kid from Jersey ? You don't come from money and can't buy your way into Hollywood . You have no relatives in Hollywood , you know nobody in Hollywood . So for me it was always a question how do you make your dreams come true ? And that's what I had to discover on my own .
Speaker 1And can you , can your story ? It has so many intricate details that are interesting . How can you summarize for our listeners your journey into making your dreams come true ?
Speaker 3Support system . So I was this strange kid . I mean , my brother was a superstar in every sport he ever did and I could barely swing a bat . So I escaped into a world of superheroes and comic books . So I escaped into a world of superheroes and comic books and I would shovel snow in the winters , mow lawns in the summers , search through garbage cans for bottles that I could return for two cents each or five cents , check the couch in the car behind the seat for change .
Speaker 1Yeah , there was always stuff there .
Speaker 3That was what I had to do and my parents were completely supportive of me for that and they gave up so much of their time which they didn't have a lot of because they worked so much to making sure I was making the most out of my passion in life . It started with that . It was my friends . It was my teachers . I had some teachers in particular at Ocean Township High School that made all the difference in the world in my life . I had two English teachers , my 7th and 8th grade English teachers . They happened to be sisters-in-law , and it was my 7th grade English teacher , mrs Stiller , who told me one day Michael , your writing is special , you are very creative and you're a very good creative writer and you could be doing something when you're an adult with this creativity . She then turned me over into eighth grade to her sister-in-law , mrs Friedman , who was Genghis Khan disguised as an English teacher .
Speaker 3Mrs Friedman was as tough and strict as you could imagine and first day of class she asked me to stay extra and she said Mrs Stiller , showed me your portfolio from seventh grade of all your writing . She said I think she's right . I think you could become a writer . I think you have the creative ability to do that . But anyone can come up with creative ideas , but very , very few spend the time or make the effort to master the craft of writing . So this year I am going to hold you to a higher standard than anyone else . You are not going to leave this class until you've diagrammed a thousand sentences and understand structure and your vocabulary and what you're going to read and why .
Speaker 1It sounds almost like a punishment .
Speaker 3If you don't believe that there is such a thing as superheroes in real life , you've never met a great teacher , kind of . The end of the story was when our first Batman movie came out in 1989 .
Speaker 3I love this . I tracked Mrs Stiller and Mrs Friedman down and I sent a limousine for them and I brought them to our premiere in New York and I got to speak for 10 minutes before the movie started and I told the story about them and I said if it wasn't for these two ladies , there would be no Batman movie tonight . There would not . And I had them stand up and they got a standing ovation and that to me was like my seventh , eighth grade fantasy come true .
Speaker 2They must have been overwhelmed .
Speaker 3It was a great moment for me .
Speaker 1That's something that Rachel and I were talking about how much you thank everyone that you have that has helped you along the way . There's teamwork , spirit , that you have a kindness and a thoughtfulness for everyone , and it doesn't matter if you're Jewish , italian , irish , whatever Family .
Speaker 3First , everything in this state starts with family . Second thing is what do I need to do ? What do I need to sacrifice to give our kids a good education ? And third , food . But we won't deal with that right now , but it's a common link for me and all my friends , my cousins , everybody . It's a common link in this state and the more people I meet , whether it's kids or adults , the more it proves true .
Speaker 2I like how you say that , because I think that when you start off , I couldn't believe , when I start your book , how you're talking about your elementary school friends and sharing pictures of them to discuss their relationships , and how formative friendships are , not just parents and relatives , but also these friendships that lasted .
Speaker 3In my journey through life , I've run across the majority of people who did not have a happy high school experience and were glad to escape it . In my community down the shore , Ocean Township , me and my friends were together from kindergarten through grade 12 . So we were in Little League together , Cub Scouts together . We knew each other's grandparents . We have a warm and fuzzy bond that cannot be broken .
Falling in Love with Batman Comics
Speaker 3That is really quite unique and amazing . It was also an extremely intelligent , very competitive class all the way through . And when Ocean Township High School recently started its School Hall of Fame , Out of I believe , the first 10 people who were inducted into the school's Hall of Fame , four were from my class .
Speaker 3That's extraordinary Something about that year the water no it's not me , it's everybody , it's that old gang of mine .
Speaker 1The thing that's interesting also is that , as you pointed out , you had a wonderful childhood , the way that you depict it but yet you gravitated towards Batman , and specifically in the comic books that you were reading at the time , because of his back , as you , you know , as you ventured through your career of , you know , going to DC comics , eventually working and writing some of the DC comic books and then moving your way to getting the rights to the Batman and trying to bring that , that darker side . I want to , I want you to elaborate on that journey , but I also I'm curious if what was it that drew you to the darker character ?
Speaker 3Okay , that's a fair question . So when I was really little , my mom said I learned to read from comic books before I was four years old and my older brother , Paul , had been bringing them into the house and there was a longstanding , decades-old tradition that many boys got their first exposure to comic books in barbershops , where they would have old comic books thrown across a broken card table as you were waiting to get your haircut . It was certainly true for me . In Asbury Park at Red's Barbershop when I was really young , I think I started with things like Casper and Richie Rich .
Speaker 1Casper and Richie Rich . I just wanted toie Look . I just wanted to let you know before not to interrupt you that I have all of these comics and I have a ton of Richie Riches . Hold them up , jeanette , hold them up a little higher , I have all these , can you not see them ?
Speaker 2The other way .
Speaker 3Yes .
Speaker 2I have a lot of Archie . We have to talk to you about Archie , but I'll wait on that .
Speaker 1These are all my husband's comic books from when he was a kid .
Speaker 3Well , put them back in their plastic bags so you'll be able to send your grandkids through college someday . That was the beginning . And then Superman was the only comic book superhero in the media . He was on TV when I was growing up .
Speaker 2The Adventures of Superman .
Speaker 3Then , when I got a little bit older , like a more mature , sophisticated six or seven , I gravitated to Batman and there were distinct reasons why . First and foremost is the fact that , unlike Superman or Wonder Woman , he was human and that was it for me . I really , really identified with him because he had no superpowers . It was up to his brains and whatever he could train his body to do and his smarts , like with his utility belt . Second is the car . Oh my God , the car .
Speaker 2The car is amazing .
Speaker 3Everybody Amazing . Third , he had the scariest but most primal murdered before his eyes in the street and sacrificing his childhood at that moment and swearing , taking a vow that he would spend the rest of his life walking through hell to get the guy who did this , get all the bad guys . I mean , that's powerful stuff . And the final element of it is something Stan Lee once explained to me . Stan was the co-creator of the pantheon of Marvel superheroes and he was originally my mentor and then became my friend , my creative associate . Ultimately , I helped produce his memorial when he passed at Grauman's Chinese Theater in Hollywood and Stan said to me I have a theory about supervillains . He said supervillains are equally important as superheroes because ultimately , it is the super villain who defines the superhero . Now , if you accept that , which I do , batman has the greatest rogues gallery of super villains in history , and that was the other thing that made it so interesting that every week you wanted to go back and see who was up next and what was going to happen next . So that was all to happen next . So that was all part of it .
Speaker 3The darkness started with the creation of Batman in 1939 by its creators , bill Finger and Bob Kane , and I am one of . I don't know probably you can count them on one hand the number of people left standing who met and talked with both of Batman's creators , and I heard straight from Bill Finger's mouth why they created it , how they created it , what their vision was , and it was as a creature of the night , a dark night , fighting these deeply disturbed villains from the shadows . And I knew that . How can you respect a character and not respect the integrity of his creators ? So I listened to that and that had an impact on me and realizing that that was their true Batman , that became my true Batman . So when the 1966 TV show came on the air , I think apoplectic is the best word to describe my reaction to it , it's just not .
Speaker 1There were two comical in some ways .
Speaker 3Comical campy silly . The ones that did me in were the ones where Batman puts on swimming trunks over his bat uniform and has a surfing contest against the Joker . When Batman ran around Gotham City holding a bomb where the fuse was going down , not knowing where to throw it safely .
Speaker 2Poor Batman .
Speaker 3And that's why I then made my vow , like young Bruce Wayne once made his vow , and that set me on my path and you went to law school and before you got , your ultimate
The Long Road to Batman '89
Speaker 3goal is that the Jewish mother of plan B you better have a plan B .
Speaker 3And C and D ? Yes , absolutely . Well , it's more complicated than that . I graduated with a degree in history . All right , what do you do with that in retrospect ? I mean , I loved it and I love my professors , but what do you do with it ?
Speaker 3The Vietnam War was still on and if I continued going to school such as law school , I could continue to get my 2S student deferment . I had just gotten married . Law school I could continue to get my 2S student deferment . I had just gotten married . My wife was starting nursing school , so it made sense for me to stay there and continue on . Begrudgingly , I went to law school , and that was only after I had mailed out 372 resumes to movie and TV companies attempting to get a creative job in the industry . Of the 372 resumes sent out , I got two job offers . One was to go to work for a talent agency in New York and work in their mailroom for $95 a week . The other was move to LA and work for a producer as a production assistant and go for coffee for a year or two for $95 a week . And I did not believe , nor did my new wife , that we could comfortably live together on $95 a week in either New York or LA , and so therefore plan B , which my parents and her parents were very happy about .
Speaker 2She wasn't upset either , but I really resented having to be there , but it's so great that you can see how that actually helped along the way with negotiating and reading contracts and fine print , and no , I'm not sure if you believe this .
Speaker 3If I let 21-year-old Michael out right now , he would kick me in the teeth . But I couldn't have accomplished what I accomplished without having had that background . That is what opened the door for me to Hollywood .
Speaker 1I was somewhere in the middle , at that part in your book , and I was talking to my sons who are , you know , new in college and trying to figure out what they want to do , and I was like , you know , michael went to law school and that's what got all those Batman movies you know make . It wasn't what he intended , but you never know how you're going to use your degree . Can you elaborate on how that journey led to you , you know , acquiring the rights and things like that ?
Speaker 3You need a through line , you need a game plan . So I wanted to get into the creative side of movies and TV and I was shut down just trying to send out resumes cold when .
Speaker 3I didn't know anybody or had no experience , so the plan was all right . So if I go to law school , take every course I can find having anything to do with entertainment or the media , then get a legal , business , financial kind of job in the industry . That would let me network like mad , learn how you finance and produce movies and how they get distributed . Then I would have a shot at sneaking in a back window onto the creative side or onto the producing side . And it worked . I mean , it actually worked . But going in , my game plan was I will be a lawyer for a maximum of four years , just as if it's like graduate school . At the end of four years I will quit and I will either at that time be writing and or producing movies , cartoons and television , or I will be delivering pizzas for Domino's . But I will not let myself be trapped being a lawyer for the rest of my life doing people's wills and divorces , be trapped being a lawyer for the rest of my life doing people's wills and divorces .
Speaker 1I will not do that , and I know that you talk about how it took you 10 years of rejection before you got the first Batman in 1989 , greenlit and made and done .
Speaker 2And both of us remember that film . Yes , Like I remember getting so excited to go see it in the theater .
Speaker 1It was groundbreaking .
Speaker 2Everybody was talking about it and to look back at it now and think there weren't superhero movies , it was a first of its kind .
Speaker 3And there was no CGI , there were no computer effects back then , there was no internet , there was no social media . And yet our first Batman movie was , in my opinion , the best ever marketed movie , because in that magical summer of 89 , billboards , posters , started to appear all over without the name of the movie on it .
Speaker 3Just the symbol and it said June 23rd and it was electric the Batmania I don't know how to describe it . You couldn't walk through Times Square , not 20 steps , without seeing someone in a Batman hat or a Batman t-shirt . Who was behind that marketing ? That was genius . Clothing manufacturing industry ran out of black cloth material because so many Batman t-shirts were printed up and they couldn't keep up with the demand . People were sadly breaking into bus stops to grab the posters and , one of the weirdest things that happened , the theaters were reporting , in that they were getting flooded with calls every day . People would say what movie is showing the Batman trailer and these people would go buy a ticket to that movie , watch the trailer for two minutes and then leave .
Speaker 1Just to see the trailer .
Speaker 3But there was a dark side to it all , and the dark side came when the announcement went out of Michael Keaton playing Batman . My God , I thought they were going to surround Warner Brothers with pitchforks and torches right out of Frankenstein and this is without social media . It was everywhere . The front page of the Wall Street Journal did like an editorial about Batman being campy again , with Michael Keaton , who was Mr Mom and a stand-up comedian , playing Batman in a movie directed by the guy who just directed Pee-Wee's .
Speaker 1Big Adventure , I know . Can you talk about that ? I love the stories that you tell about that time when you decided to go with Tim Burton and where he was in his career and him telling you that he wanted to use Michael Keaton and also the Jack Nicholson story . Can you tell that story ?
Speaker 3Well , first of all , let me , just as a Jersey guy , I got to mention this . Three of Batman's supervillains in history grew up on the Jersey Shore , Did they ? For those of you who don't know , from Asbury Park and Bradley Beach , Cesar Romero went to Asbury Park High School who played the Joker on the TV series . I still haven't forgiven him for not shaving off his mustache , but that's another story . Jack Nicholson out of Neptune went Favorite son . There's some kind of bat magic going on in the Jersey store . Maybe it's the .
Speaker 2Jersey devil lore that seeped in Fair yeah .
Speaker 1I love that , rachel , that's great .
Speaker 3So it was Memorial Weekend , 1980 . I get on the bus coming back to New Jersey and I open the New York Post to the movie section . That holiday weekend two big movies were opening up the Empire Strikes
Casting Michael Keaton and Jack Nicholson
Speaker 3Back and a horror film called the Shining . I turned the page and I see , for the first time ever , this iconic photo of Jack Nicholson . Yes , is the only actor who could play the Joker . So I tore it out of the post .
Speaker 3I got home , I ran up to my desk , I took white out and I whited out Jack's face . I took a red pen and I did his lips . I took a magic marker , I did his hair and then I showed that to everybody associated with the Batman movie and said Nicholson is the only actor who could play the Joker and the day he was hired was the greatest day of my career . To that point I followed . Maybe 10 days later or two weeks later , when I get a call from one of the studio execs Michael , I go what , what do you think of Tim's new idea , having Michael Keaton play Batman ? I thought it was a joke . Honestly , I thought they were playing a joke on me . 20 minutes later , after they finally convinced me I was destroyed . I said , oh my God , I've been at this now seven and a half years .
Speaker 3And it's over . How could this be ? But then Tim Burton , in his genius , explained to me . Tim had this thing , which I always call the big idea . It's his big idea that changed Hollywood forever , changed the comic book industry , changed the world culture's perception about superheroes and comic books . And he said if we're going to do the first ever dark and serious comic book superhero movie and we don't want to get unintentional laughs from audiences around the world who have never read a comic book before , this movie cannot be about Batman . That's when I crumbled to dust . He said no , this movie has to be about Bruce Wayne , bingo .
Speaker 2Bingo is right . And then to see the humanity of Bruce Wayne , which , michael Keaton was really amazing in that role .
Speaker 3He was astounding . He said we need to create a portrayal of Bruce Wayne as driven to the point of being obsessed and psychotic , so that audiences will believe without laughing will believe this is a guy who would put on a bat suit and go out and fight crime like this . And it was many years later . I was having lunch with Stan Lee in Los Angeles and Stan said to me you know , michael , it's only because of your 1989 Batman that there's a Marvel Cinematic Universe . I said , stan , what are you talking about ? He said the way Tim Burton came up with this idea of putting the entire focus on Bruce Wayne instead of Batman . He said think about it , michael .
Speaker 2Iron man .
Speaker 3The Iron man movies . They should all be entitled Tony Stark . The Spider-Man movies should be called Peter Parker . He said it's because of Batman 1989 . And I'll jump for a second time If you go to the next Genius Online .
Speaker 1Christopher Nolan . I'm glad you did that . Thanks .
Speaker 3When he started the Dark Knight trilogy . This past week we've been celebrating the 20th anniversary of Batman Begins , and when he did Batman Begins I know firsthand because they told me specifically the filmmakers who were pondering over what to do to revive James Bond as a franchise , what to do to revive Star Trek as a franchise , they all went to see Batman Begins and they said , oh , that's what we need to do . Bond begins , star Trek begins . So the impact of that over the years has been enormous and usually goes under the radar .
Speaker 1That is interesting , a very interesting fact Kind of like the prequel kind of thing . So can you tell how you did get them to finally greenlight the first ?
Speaker 3Batman at the studio and they said we want you to see the fine cut of this new movie this young animator from Disney just did for us . It's live action . So I went over there and I saw the fine cut of Pee-Wee's Big Adventure and I came out and I said guys , this is the greatest combination , creatively , of direction and art direction I've ever seen . I'd love to meet him .
Speaker 3So they set up three lunches for me with Tim , and my first lunch was primarily to indoctrinate him into the world of Batman , which he was not really familiar with . Goal number two to keep him away from the campy , silly , stupid stuff . So I gave him from my collection , reprints of the 1939-40 Batman comics the first Joker and Catwoman , the first Robin , 40 Batman comics , the first Joker and Catwoman , the first Robin . I gave him comic books from the 70s where DC had returned Batman to his darker roots once again . And for the second meeting he came back with a lot of questions . By the end of the third lunch I said as far as I'm concerned , this is the guy , he's got it and everybody there totally believed in him .
Speaker 2He had already done , beetlejuice now for them .
Speaker 3And they knew what Michael Keaton was capable of . I was still not so sure . So they set up a screening , ultimately of the rough cut of a movie called Clean and Sober , so I could see Michael's serious performance .
Speaker 1And then I walked out of there and I said I take it all back . We also want to talk about your book and the show . The Boy who Loved Batman
Batman's Broadway Adaptation
Speaker 1turning into a Broadway show , so tell us what's going on here with this Broadway show .
Speaker 3I've been in the movie TV business for 49 years . All of a sudden , I find myself in the theater business Broadway . It's totally different . I mean it's totally different , and I'm partnered with Bob Niederlander Niederlander Worldwide . You couldn't ask for better partners in the world of theater . For the first time , probably in 35 years , I have butterflies in my stomach .
Speaker 1That's so fun , that's so great . Yeah , it's a good feeling . It's terrible and good at the same time , yeah .
Speaker 3I mean , they're bringing to life my memoir , my story . So it's you know , at the end of the day it's about my parents and my wife and my brother and my friends and Mrs Stiller and Mrs Friedman and everybody on the path who got me there . It's surrealistic . We did a six-week run in Tampa at the Straz Center for the Performing Arts , got a standing ovation at every performance . It's really really quite incredible .
Speaker 2How does it feel to see your life being presented to you ?
Speaker 3It is strange to say the least , but it is based on the memoir I wrote . So the most incredible , weird part of the whole thing was casting my parents .
Speaker 1Yeah .
Speaker 3And having an opportunity to bring them back to life on the Broadway stage . I mean , that is , I can't even come up with the words . I really can't .
Speaker 1Imagine it would be just a whirlwind of emotions and to cast them and then to keep directing them on how to say things and do things , and I can imagine that would be a monumental effort to keep it together .
Speaker 3Well , we have an award-winning director , jeff Calhoun , who's just done a fabulous job with the cast and the production design , every element that's gone into this . It's really been creative , innovative and fun . It's going to be entertaining , but it also hopefully like my memoir fun . It's going to be entertaining , but it also hopefully , like my memoir , it'll be motivational . I want it to be motivational .
Speaker 2You have so many motivational moments in your book that you share . I wrote down a bunch of them . You said there are three things that stuck out . 90% of competition sits on their butts , waiting for the world to come to them . So then your competition is only 10 percent . The other 10 percent and then the only way to succeed , to make your own luck and get your foot in the door was by knocking on them , having them slam in your face , picking yourself up and doing that again , and then yes and then I also love this and I've heard it before .
Speaker 2Recently somebody said this to me Don't believe when people say how bad your ideas are , and don't believe when they say how good they are . Just believe in yourself , and I love that you . You have that internally , since you were little like even if you have , I would think , having an older brother who's good at sports and good at all these things . It could be demoralizing , but instead you turn to what you were passionate about and you went all in on your passion and doubled down on who you are .
Speaker 3Well , that goes back to my mom now . My dad was about passion , my mom specifically about perseverance and commitment . Once you make a commitment , you stick to it and if it proves to be painful , I'm sorry you get to the other side . That's what you need to do to succeed , and my brother and I both carry that with us and has made a huge difference in our lives and what we've each been able to achieve . I've spoken at I don't know 200 and
Life Lessons and Words of Wisdom
Speaker 3some odd colleges and universities around the world for now , really two generations .
Speaker 3There has been this weirdly pervasive self-entitlement that is out there and people that think the world owes them something or the world's going to come to them , and my message is you got to get up off the couch and be proactive . It's just like you said . That's the starting point for making dreams come true . There's no other way to do it . Is it quick ? No , is it easy ? No , my God . The rejection slip . I have a closet filled with rejection slips . So what do you do ? You know , when the door slams in your face , you have two choices you go home and cry , or you dust yourself off and go back and knock again . That's the only choice you have and if there's anything I've learned in life , it's probably this at this point , to me , life is a series of choices . Your life is about what you choose to do or what you choose not to do . It's about what you choose to say or what you choose not to say , and every one of those has consequences , and that's how I've tried to hold the course throughout my life .
Speaker 2That can be paralyzing though I think for some people . You know like , oh my God , you know to make the decision . How do you know when to stop following a pursuit ? You know , I wouldn't know to stick to it for 10 years to get a film made . You have also something genetically nature and nurture some cocktail inside of you also that allowed you . It's a magic also . I don't think it's only just perseverance .
Speaker 3Well , all right . So I see it as having to do with age as well . When you are in college , you cannot make a wrong move . You cannot make a mistake by moving to LA to try to get into business , or moving to New York or moving to Nashville or Chicago . You have time on your hands and everything you're doing you're learning something important , and it's just as important to learn what you don't like as what you do like , and you're not losing time . It is a positive learning experience , and you have X number of years to go down this path . Try that path , that one , or come home and try something else , and you haven't lost a damn thing .
Speaker 3Now it's different once you have a family and I talk about this from experience , believe me , during those 10 years , it took me to get Batman made , not knowing how I was going to pay my bills the following week , having to keep a roof over my family's head and food on the table . What do you do ? Well , the answer is you do virtually everything you can possibly do , but at a certain moment in time , you have to look at yourself in the mirror and determine okay , I gave it my best shot . Now I have to . This is why I went to law school , so I'd have something to fall back on . Now it's time for me to do that . Hang on a second .
Speaker 3I'm going to read you something . This is the last letter my dad sent to me . Michael , all that is expected of a person is that he do his best , don't panic , keep a cool head and , whatever the outcome , at least you can say I tried real hard , that's it . It's not really about achieving this goal or that goal . It's about , at the end of the day , being able to look in a mirror and said I tried it as hard as I could , I did everything I could , and you got to be proud of what you look at in the mirror . And if that means it's now time to go back and be a lawyer or whatever it might be , so be it . But you know in your heart of hearts , you gave it everything you have . That's what counts .
Speaker 1Fantastic life advice . It is , it's incredible advice , and I feel like that's the premise of this Broadway show . Your book and everything seems to be that message is just give it your all .
Speaker 3Well , the lowest point of my Batman career was when the studio at that time became so enamored of Happy Meals and toys and , as a result , we had things like Batman and Robin , which was like the 66 TV series Redux , catwoman and I was just at the lowest point of my career . I knew this was all wrong . And Ben said to me and Ben was my dad's age and a legend in the movie business Ben said to me you know , michael , when the roof is falling in on you and everything is going south , what you need to do is say this is the greatest thing that could have happened to me , because and then fill in the blank . So I said come on , ben , he goes . I'm telling you it works . It works every time , say it .
Speaker 3So I said okay , this is the greatest thing that could have ever happened to me , because they're going to get bitten on the butt by this and , as a result , the next time around , whoever's running things will give me what I want will be the dark and serious Batman that I want . Well , that horrible moment wound up leading to the introduction of Christopher Nolan into the Batman universe , which has never been the same since he literally elevated the comic book movie with Batman Begins and the Dark Knight . When you walk out of one of his movies , you didn't have to say that was a great comic book movie . You could really just say that was a great film .
Speaker 1You're a legend . You really and truly are a legend and it is an incredible honor to talk to you and have this time to speak with you , because what you have done for the Batman universe , Macan and comics and everything but for film and also for New Jersey , it's incredible the contributions that your life has made to our universe .
Speaker 3When I was writing the memoir I didn't know how to end it . I didn't know where to end it and it suddenly became very crystal clear . Around the time of the Dark Knight being out , I got a call from a colonel at West Point and he said our cadets every year have a Cadets Choice Award and they choose someone who best represents the honor of West Point , and this year they voted Batman the Dark Knight . Would you consider coming up and accepting this award and speaking to our cadets there's 4,500 cadets at lunch . So I said I would be absolutely honored to do that . We went up to West Point . They take us into the dining hall which looked like the set from Harry Potter all stone vaulted ceilings , flags coming together in a V with a stone balcony . And he's taking me up the stone balcony and all the cadets are standing at attention at their tables . And I said well , you didn't tell me how long you'd like me to speak . I can do a half hour , I can do 40 minutes , we can do Q&A . He said oh , I didn't tell you . The cadet's lunch is only 15 minutes . So I'm going to present you with the award and you can speak for three minutes and with that he literally he hands me the award and hands me the microphone . And now I'm standing in front of 4,500 cadets . So I said cadets of West Point .
Speaker 3When Bruce Wayne was a young boy , he saw his parents murdered before his eyes on a concrete altar of blood on the streets of Gotham City . At that moment , sacrificing his childhood , he swore a vow that he would get the bad guy who did this and spend the rest of his life pursuing all the bad guys , even if he had to walk through hell for the rest of his life , pursuing all the bad guys , even if he had to walk through hell for the rest of his life . In doing this , he became an urban warrior , he became a legend , he became the Dark Knight . He said cadets of West Point , you are Batman .
Speaker 2Fantastic , it's so fantastic .
Speaker 3And they erupted . They started roaring and jumping and getting on the chairs and it went on for a number of minutes . I still get the chills relating this , and that wasn't the best moment . The best moment came one week later at my office and I opened the mail and there's a letter from a woman I do not know and she says Dear Mr Usling , you don't know me .
Speaker 3I am the mother of one of the cadets at West Point to whom you spoke last week . I don't know if you understand the seriousness of this , but our
The West Point Speech: "You Are Batman"
Speaker 3families are dealing with the fact that our kids are all going off to Iraq and Afghanistan next month . Given them a calling card , they are walking across campus , high-fiving each other , bouncing off each other's chest , going I am Batman , you are Batman . She said this is a calling card and in years to come , no matter where , on what foreign battlefield they may encounter each other again , they will always have this , and I can't thank you enough for that . They will always have this and I can't thank you enough for that . And that was it for me . I mean , that's the pinnacle of what you could possibly dream of accomplishing or the impact you ever dream of having , and it sets everything in proper perspective . Yeah , it's only a movie , but it's not always just about box office . It can also be about things far , far greater and more important than that . And then I realized okay , I have the ending for my book .
Speaker 1Yeah , it was . I recommend the book to everyone to read , to go see your upcoming Broadway show and , of course , go through all of the films that you've done . Again , it's been an honor to talk with you . And we're looking forward to seeing what you're up to next . I'm sure , besides the Broadway show , there's probably a few other things that we'll be seeing come out that you're attached to , and we look forward to that .
Speaker 3Thank you guys so much , and especially important to me to be able to reach out and speak to my fellow Jerseyans , and that's cool .
Speaker 1Okay , we ask everybody this , so we need to ask you , and it's going to be hard for you .
Speaker 3Tell us something that you love person , place or thing or concept about New Jersey Attitude . It's the magic of being grounded and street smart , respecting family first , respecting food , especially pizza , and the art of driving with your fingers .
Speaker 2Wait , you're going to have to explain that last one for me .
Speaker 3Obviously , you've never been on a highway being cut off by Jersey drivers Driving with your fingers .
Speaker 1Okay , it took us a minute .
Speaker 3That's quite all right . They don't drive that way in Los Angeles , but they certainly do in New Jersey Also . One last thing is being proudly identifiable by your exit number .
Speaker 1That's true . That is my red badge of courage . Well , we have enjoyed every minute of this interview and really appreciate you coming on and sharing these stories with us and everything that you do , and thank you so much for just joining us here .
Speaker 3I very much appreciate it . As we say out in La La Land , let's do lunch have your people call my people .
Speaker 1I would love to do lunch Is it the actual LA lunch which they say doesn't materialize , or is it the New ? Jersey lunch that happens within a couple of days .
Speaker 3It's the New Jersey lunch which actually happens and is predicated on . You're sitting at lunch with your back against the wall at the table .
Speaker 2We're in .
Speaker 3Thanks .
Speaker 2This podcast was produced by Rachel Martens and Jeanette Afsharian . You can find us on Spotify , itunes and Buzzsprout . Thanks for listening . See you next week .
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