In this episode, I interview queer videographer, Casey Pflipsen of Pflipsen Films on his personal experience in the wedding world and how we can continue to make it better and more inclusve.
Check Casey out @pflipsenfilms
The intro and all instrumentals were written, sung and recorded by @JaynaDavisMusic
In this episode, I interview queer videographer, Casey Pflipsen of Pflipsen Films on his personal experience in the wedding world and how we can continue to make it better and more inclusve.
Check Casey out @pflipsenfilms
The intro and all instrumentals were written, sung and recorded by @JaynaDavisMusic
Clearly beloved, we are gathered here today to discuss with Casey of flips and films. his thoughts on wedding videography and why having a queer team on your day is important. Casey has been doing videography for quite some time, and he just recently joined me on the wildly connected team. And he is the videographer of the team. So really excited to hear his expertise today, and I will let Casey introduce himself and his pronouns and any identities he'd like to share. Cool. I'm Casey. I go by he, him, and I'm a gay man or a queer man. I like to use both those words. Welcome. Thanks for being here. thank you for having me. Yeah, you were the first hire on the team. Ooh. So I hope you feel honored. Very honored. So let's just give people like a little bit of context into you. What got you started into videography? I think the main reason I started videography is because I was a big skateboard and snowboard rat when I was. and we always wanted to film our cool stunts and put it on the YouTube to be like the coolest snowboarders. We looked up to that YouTube. Yeah, And when I say little, like I, we started snowboarding when we were like six and seven years old. And then by the time I convinced my parents to get me like a little point and shoot dad cam when I was in fifth grade and that. the mo, the biggest moment of my life, You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. And then I learned how to do video editing on an old program called Pinnacle Studios. I remember that. You've heard of that? Yeah. Really? Did you edit on that when you were young? I just remember seeing it like, like on a school computer. Okay. When I was really little. Yeah. Yeah. That stuff is ancient You should bring it back to style. Yeah. It was like, it was like, like you had to go to a store and buy a disc. Yep. Oh my God. Can you believe that? You said the do that? Like what I Even our disks, I don't know. Don't even know. And then back then, When I was young, I didn't even know how to like get music into. a video so I could, I was limited to the music they had on that software. Oh. And it was like the worst music ever. When you were like, you know, when you make a snowboard, skateboard video montage, you add music to it Yeah. To make it look cooler. Yep. Yeah. And it was like classical to elevator, literally music or something like that. Literally that it was so bad. Oh my gosh. How, how old were you when you shot your first wedding? Or what was that like? so yeah, I didn't shoot my first. Hmm. I think I was in junior high. Okay. I was probably, seventh or eighth grade was like seventh and eighth. I had two twins, twin cousins that got married and one of'em, they just wanted, they had this big flash mob at their weddings. Oh. That was back when flash mobs were a thing, you know? And so they basically hired me just to. Okay. And it was just, it was still like back when I just had a point and shoot camera. Yeah. I just happened to be the only person in the family that owned a video camera. Wow. And that was like before iPhones too, kind of, or people probably still had flip phones. Yeah. so you shot your first one when you were like 13 or something then? Yeah. Like super young. Like Wow. And that was just a favor for a family member? Yeah. And it was literally just a flash mob. And then the next one, they were like, the other twin got married like a year. and they're like, oh, we want like our whole wedding film. We just like be there pointing the camera. And I did. I did that with no direction. I've never even seen a wedding video. I just point in the camera, you know? Mm-hmm. and then went back home, still editing on my little Pinnacle Studio software. probably crashed like every another second. Yeah. Yeah. But then that same year, I think, my, then my parents got me a Canon T three I, yes. That was my first camera and that was like a big deal. That was my first camera too. Really? Yeah. Yeah. And I got it more for video because it did, it does decent video. Yeah. And it still, you know, and it just came with like a kit lens. That's all I had. And yep, I started playing around, getting more serious, like getting artsy with it, learning about Boca and aperture and everything. shutter speed, frame rate, you name it. and a year, a year later, it was in ninth grade that I actually had some skill, and then another cousin got married and they actually hired me to, and paid me a small amount to film a wedding. Whoa. And it worked really good because this, this cousin, her name was Jenna. She was a bride that knew what she wanted, what her, what her wedding video looked like, and she basically just gave. a wedding video she liked that her friend got married to mm-hmm. and was like, copy this. Oh. And so I studied that wedding video and we even used the same song and I just copied it like to a T and it worked pretty like that was a good way to, to try to learn mm-hmm. how to shoot. And they paid me like$300, which was a, a lot of money When you're in ninth grade. Yeah. Wait, so, okay. Like what, do you know like what year that was roughly? So if I, I graduated high school in 2016. So minus four years. So like 2012 probably. Okay. Yeah. Dang. So, yeah, so I imagine that like wedding videos in 2012 to now are like very different. Would you agree? Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, for sure. What would you say? I feel like they've gotten more dramatic for some reason. Mm-hmm. because the wedding video I studied back then was like fun and playful, but they're like, the cinematics are getting so good. and because of that, it looks like a movie and it's like super dramatic. Mm-hmm. And I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing, but that's just like what I've noticed. Sure. Whereas back then it was maybe more like just documenting kind of, or Yeah. It was still like a highlight reel. Like copy to highlight reel. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. but yeah, that's, that's a good way to put it. Okay. Interesting. Yeah, cuz I just think. Well, I think wedding photography and videography have like increased in popularity a lot over the years, but like videography especially, I think is a lot more popular now than it used to be. Yeah. That's what it feels like. Oh, for sure. Yeah. And it's still not even that popular, right? It's still hard to convince some of your brides Yeah. To do video, right? Yeah. Or grooms. Or grooms, or. what's the non-binary term for a Ryder Grim? Whatever they prefer. I don't know if it's like one singular term. Mm-hmm. But there should be, yeah. They're, they're working on it like nearly weds. Mm-hmm. nearly weds. Yeah. Or cool. that's a great question. If someone was like, we're thinking about having video, but we're not really sure, like, what's the benefit of having a video? my new favorite saying that, you know, is if a picture's worth a thousand words, a video is worth a million. Right? But why Because you can literally, it. Cinema is amazing. Like you can watch a video and it's like you're there, a photo you can just look at and only stare up for so long. But a video is a time-based media and it's, it's motion, it's moving. You can, like, there's a, I've heard examples where someone shot a wedding video and then later on her, the, the bride's grandma died and the bride reached out to the videographer, was like, my grandma died. I can't handle. do you have any audio or video? Of my grandma, and luckily the videographer still had that and sent the raw files so that way she could just like see a video and hear her grandma again for the rest of her life. It's like pretty moving. So stuff like that, you know? Mm-hmm. it's, it's amazing. Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's, that's very true. I think that there's for sure an element of video that is maybe. the word that's coming to mind is like grounding. Whereas like you can look at a photo and like feel those emotions and remember that day, but also like memory is funky and you know. Mm-hmm. things can kind of fade, but if you're like literally watching a moment play out, you're like, no, that's exactly how it happened. Like, yeah. Feeling very grounded and like I can literally witness what happened. Yeah. That's, and the whole idea with cinema, and some people say that cinema is like the top. Art of all the fine arts, not to like crap on photography at all. little hair flip in there, And not that I haven't mastered that yet, but, like, and the reason they say that is because when you go to a movie and you watch a movie and you sit there for an hour, you're so invested in the movie that you forget about all the other problems you are in your life. That movie feels real in that movement. Mm-hmm. in that moment for that hour and a half or two hours that. Mm-hmm. So the goal with a wedding video is if you can create that feeling to, for just a bride and groom to re-watch over, over wedding or couples. I'm horrible but that just, that's just the wedding. I've never, that's just the wedding industry. Yeah. You know? Yeah. That's ingrained in my head. Yeah. And I'm gay. We're working on it. We're wor Yeah, same. We're working on it. Okay. So if you can create that same feeling for a wedding couple Mm. where they can watch their wedding video and just forget about all their life problems later and just like relive that day and get invested in that video. That is the goal. And just, yeah, it's like a form of meditation, relaxation, and just a me a visual memory. That's deep. Yeah. Cuz I think that you could say like, really good cinema like changes you too. Like it, you walk away with like an experience, an emotion, like mm-hmm. and it's like no pressure for you. Cuz you have what, like five minutes Yeah. to like try to emulate that feeling. Like, and that's, that might be a little too deep either way. It's just something nice you can re-watch. Right. And relive. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. No, absolutely. That's really. That's great. I suppose before I kind of build on that real quick, do you wanna, do you wanna tell the audience here how we got introduced? Didn't we get introduced through the internet from, a photographer that I shot with? Yes. What's her name? Oh. We don't have to say her name, but, oh, okay. you can tell the story. So the, like the harsh version. Yeah, I think it's, I think it's a great, can we tell us, help me tell it together. But I was, I was shooting at a wedding and I, I don't remember, like I had this weird moment where I came out to her and the bread. Oh, really? I didn't know that part. Yeah. were they like asking about your personal Yeah, they were asking about like, oh, do you have a girlfriend? Do you have this, do you have that? And it was like this, like we were doing like this shoot before this at the sunset or something? Yep. Mm-hmm. And it was this awkward mo, I made it awkward like sometimes, yeah, I don't know. Yeah, it's tough. I like pause and it was like, oh, I have a boyfriend. And, and it like was really awkward for some reason. I don't know why it was. Because you don't, you never know how people are gonna respond. I didn't want to tell them. Yeah. I was at a wedding. It was a straight wedding. Yeah. Straight people. There probably not one gay person there that I could, that I could spot Yeah. Yeah. And when I'm in situations like that, I just don't want to tell people sometimes. Right. Cause I don't have to. Right. It's pretty cool. but yeah, then I told them, and it was like this weird awkward pause and the bride, the bride was like, what? That's totally cool. Like you can tell us that. And it was like, chill. Mm-hmm. But that's kind of how this photo. And the bride found out that I was queer. Okay. And then later on she, you needed someone for a queer model, right? Oh, I don't even think it was, I mean, I probably was putting stuff like that out there. Mm-hmm. but that same photographer had messaged me and said, Hey, you should. Casey, like he's a videographer and like he's gay just like you basically. And I was like, okay, cool. And that sort of like re sparked a conversation between her and I. So then you and I met and I was like, this is awesome. Like Casey's great. And then it was like, I don't know, maybe like a week after we first met that the same photographer messaged me and was like, yeah, so I'm just like not super convinced that being gay is okay. Like can we get coffee sometimes? bizarre. And that the same day that photographer messaged you, I was with you on, we were doing, wasn't that when I was, we were at, your partner's. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, that's not my partner's lake, but yes. Yeah, yeah. you agree? Yeah, yeah, yeah. your partner's parents' house, that's on the Lake Yes, yes. it was like roughly around the same time around. Yeah. So it was just like ironic that basically a person that is homophobic connected, connected us to queer people that are now like, running the queer industry in Minnesota. And then maybe like she saw us killing it on the gram and doing our queer thing. And then she was like, actually, I don't like this Probably like, I Wait, actually, I need to save them really quick. Yeah. Let me Backspace. Yeah. So she sent you that long paragraph and then did you just, what did you respond? I blocked her. You blocked? Yeah. Don't have time for that right now. You do not. No one has time for that. Yeah. It's not your job to go tell them why being queer is okay, like mm-hmm. It's a joke that that's even a question still. Right. So yeah, you bring up a great point then as far as, I think that even interactions like this is why I was really invested and interested in hiring like an all queer team and. why I was interested in creating a business that was like centered around queer folks because like those are the experiences that, that I was having on like a consistent basis and like I'm sure you were too. Mm-hmm. So yeah. What's your take on that? Like why do you think. It could be important to have a queer team or queer vendors for your day. It just makes me excited. I'm so excited to hopefully book more clients with you and do queer videos, because the last eight years I've just been kind of hiding in the wedding industry. I, I show up to weddings and I don't tell'em I'm gay and I try to avoid saying I have a boyfriend or avoid any of that talk and just do my job and go home, you know? Mm-hmm. so that, make me like filming weddings 10 times more if I could just be out and proud and didn't have to worry about that. So thank you for making this space. Yeah, it's crazy. Would you mind like, expanding at all on why, why you have felt that way for the last eight years? Like felt that I had to hide? Yeah. It's, it's, it makes me feel safer when I'm in those heteronormative spaces. and I just, I'm a scared mm-hmm. it's kind of scary thing. Mm-hmm. I don't know. That's kind of, and it's whack that I do that. Yeah. I shouldn't be hiding, but it's just like a natural mm-hmm. defense mechanism. I've learned from being, having 18 years in the closet. Yeah. I go back in sometimes, I guess. Yeah. Yeah. Yep. But when I'm not at weddings, I am the most out and proud dude in other ways. Right. But it's just when I'm at that wedding, I just gotta make my dollar and go home and I don't wanna. do my job. You know, and I just Right. Don't want that to get in the way. Like risk losing something. Yeah. That, yeah. Mm-hmm. Yep. So, no, that totally makes sense. And yeah, I feel the same way. but since meeting you, I put queer in my bio now. Oh. And you inspired me to do that. And I posted, like you saw when I posted the headshots that you took of me. I like made such a stance. I was like, I'm a queer videographer. Yeah. Which is like kind of cheesy, but that was kind of a big deal for me to say that that business, that was a big deal. Business page. Yeah. That's good deal. Now on on my landing page, it says queer own business. Yeah. And part of the reason I did that is because you told me when you were looking for a graphic designer for your, or your web designer, you found a web designer that has, it was like clearly stated they're a queer owned business. And you were like, yep, I want that one. And I was like, I want a client to see that I'm queer and want to hire me because I'm queer. Because they're queer too. Right. You know what I mean? Yep. And I wanna give our clients like that. So I'm probably gonna, I'm probably losing some business Yep. By saying that, but hopefully I'll get. the kind of people who I wanna work with from now on in the future. Right? Yeah. Yeah. And it's like we don't want those people anyway. Exactly. We don't want their money. Right. We don't need it. And also like, I think we're entering a stage where we're like, yeah, we're not gonna go back in the closet if we don't have to. Exactly. so yeah, exactly. Like you kind of have already touched on it a little bit, but Yeah. From like the client slash couple perspective, why do you think it's important for us to be in this business? in serving them. I think it's important if you're a queer, if you're a queer wedding couple, it's important that you hire a queer wedding team, whether it's your photographer, your vendors, your videographer, whatever. Because we should all just be supporting each other for one. Mm-hmm. and your photos and your videos are gonna turn out better because us queer people are more comfortable around queerness. Mm-hmm. And we know how to capture your queerness and vice versa. They'll be, feel more comfort. Having queer media team versus like some like cis, hetero straight photo and video team, you know? Mm-hmm. Yeah. That's very true. Yeah. I probably shouldn't snap on the podcast, but I'd be snapping right now if I, if I could like this. Yeah. Yeah. Which, yeah, like the past couple episodes I did was talking all about the importance of posing and how like posing in the queer realm is so different than like, the straight realm, which is something that I feel like not everybody usually thinks about. Mm-hmm. But like us coming from like that lived experience like that is our day to day. And like stuff like that, like you could be like the most accepting vendor in the world and that's great and we want that, but like at the end of the day, I feel like it just will feel different if you're surrounded by your community. and the po you, you hit on the spot with the posing and stuff. Like, the first time I did a, it was a gay two men shoot the night before when it was the shoot at the lake. Yeah. The night before. I was looking on YouTube like how to pose gay men on YouTube and nothing existed. There was like not YouTube videos on how to do it. I'm so sad. There was maybe like one small one I found, but you know, like you can. Wedding poses and get pages and pages of pages of straight couples. Mm-hmm. you know mm-hmm. so I, I actually still probably have a lot to learn about composing queer people, but I'm learning, and I'm hopefully already, ahead of the straight videographers, they probably don't know how to Right. Pose queer people. Yeah. And I've just been learning, because now that I'm meeting you, I'm meeting other queer artists. I'm following them. I'm seeing their poses. I'm learning every day just by scrolling on my Instagram and being in that, like actually in this queer space. Mm-hmm. So thank you for Yeah. Bringing in Thank you. And yeah, I, I totally get that. Like, I feel like I still have, you know, some of my own biases from growing up in a very, like, sheltered, you know, didn't really even ever like see queer people like in the real world ever until I was older. So like of course there's things to work through there, but yeah, I think that's really cool that we're. Trying to make a space for people that's like, yeah, we know this is what you see on a daily basis, but like we're, let's see, more of this. Mm-hmm. you know? Yeah. but that just, but also for any straight couples out there listening, we're really good at posing straight people too. That's true. So we still got you. That's true. If you wanna support. And also, you know, I know there's plenty of like queer folks out there who are in like straight passing relationships too. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And that's valuable. Yeah. but yeah, I guess on that note as well, what is something, I suppose I was gonna ask you in particular about something with videographers that you see gone wrong a lot, but it could be photographers too. Mm-hmm. since you also work with them. So yeah. What the, that, that's that question, right? Yeah. Camera seven. Yeah. Like something that, that happens at, you know, weddings or event spaces that like, is something you think that we need to get better at. Yeah. One thing. Oh, is that a, so this, the one thing that came to mind when I heard this question was that I was at a wedding once and the photographer had this like big flash that she dragged around to every location. Mm. and it just like, it was like on a stand, you know? Mm. With like a heavy battery and a big thing. And she was even bringing it outdoors. And I don't know if she was like an, like an amateur or if it was, or if that's just like how she got her G. She called a dynamic lighting, which I didn't really know that was, I've never shot an extra photographer that does that. Mm-hmm. But it just took forever to set up each like scene we were doing. and it slowed the process down. And then it was frustrating for me cuz she would get the lighting perfectly for her flash, but I can't use a flash, you know? So it didn't help me at all. Mm-hmm. So I was just like waiting on her to set up her flash. That wasn't even useful. Right. So I felt like that slowed the day down and we missed valuable time and like we wasted the bride and groom and the wedding party's time too. Like while they were waiting to set up this flash and stuff. and I've heard, I, you know, I don't usually shoot next to a videographer because I'm the videographer, but I've heard other photographers say stuff about that, about certain videographers who drag around big lighting kits all day. And like say you are in a bar and, the bride and groom wants to have like a fun bar shot and like take a shot at the bar. Or I said, Brad, the wedding. Couple Start over. Okay, good. Do your best to edit out. Every time I say Brad groom that's great. No, I think I should leave it. Edit and just like, help me out. No, you're gonna, I'm gonna get canceled. okay, so say the wedding couple is out at the bar and they want to take a fun wedding shot or like wedding. Cheers at the bar. I've heard photographers be like, Ugh, the videographer had dragged in their lighting equipment and we had to wait 10 minutes for them to get the lighting just right and then get the shot and that. Just little things like that. Sure. 10, 15 minutes, but that adds up if you're doing that in every indoor shot. Mm-hmm. But, so there's a fine line. I don't really use much lighting, but there has been times where I've seen a photographer bring in some nice lighting for the dance floor that's continuous lighting and that does help a lot. Mm-hmm. So there's, I don't know, there's like a fine line. having too much equipment and not enough. Sure. And I think I'm still learning that. Mm-hmm. I'm pretty minimal right now. I don't like to bring in a bunch of lights and stuff, but I do have some on hand in case the reception is too dark. Sure. And I'm sure some of that too just ties into like the authenticity of the day, right? Like, if you're, you're like, no, you can't just go have fun cuz I need 10 minutes just to capture you two having fun on your wedding day. Mm-hmm. like you lose a layer of authenticity there too. Yep. Because you're like, wait, stop laughing. I have to set up my flash. Yeah. Literally. What about you? Do you ever use like a big flash that you. No, I do have some off camera lighting. Mm-hmm. but, for weddings I try not to. No. Cause it's so running gun, like it's so hard. Yeah. Yeah. But with that said, I have been like daydreaming about getting a nice light for the dance floor reception. would be nice. Mm-hmm. right now I just have like a couple l e d panels that get the job done. Yeah. Right. Mm-hmm. it's, it definitely does make a difference and. I think like the reception is a whole other story, right? Perceptions are hard. They're hard, but it's also like, you know, people are eating, they're hanging out, they're not gonna care if you spend 15 minutes Yes. To set up a light. You have time in between the reception things. Yeah. Right. Yeah. What about in terms of like how people are like interacting with couples or, oh, that's probably what you were more getting at. Yeah. Right. No, this is great too. Yeah. But, Like the photographer interacting with the couples. The photographer? Yeah. Yeah. Either which way you've seen, I'm sure there's a fine line too, between getting a nice pose shot and letting them do their own thing and just capturing the moment. You know, I could see posing them too much for every shot could be annoying. but then not posing them enough and then not then feeling awkward, not knowing what to do. Mm-hmm. I feel like we're always walking that fine line. Mm-hmm. like, I don't want to be a director on set all day telling the couple. Mm-hmm. the un gendered couple. Perfect. We love, we love to hear it the couple, like making it like a, a movie scene for every shop. Right. But also sometimes doing stuff like that can make for a really cool video shot or photo. Yeah. Photo. Mm-hmm. Yeah. It definitely needs to be a mix. Yeah. yeah. What do you think, like, what's your ideal wedding industry like, like you as a wedding videographer going forward? How do you want weddings to feel? well, I'm slowly, I want to sh my dream is to shift to all shooting some weddings on all film, not digital. Mm. and that really helps create a more natural wedding feel. When you're shooting on film, you're really just, you have less recording time. Mm-hmm. and you're really just capturing the spur of the moment. You can't tell couples to redo things because you only have so much time on your roles of film that you have. Right. And that I see other video, I look up to other videographers and it's just like changing the feel of wedding videos, going back to shooting on. and saying goodbye to digital Mm-hmm. for some people, you know, everybody's different. but that's my ideal wedding feel. But also my ideal wedding clientele would be more queer, couples in, in on the books. And then kind of following up on that too, you mentioned at the start of the episode that, you know, the wedding industry still feels pretty heteronormative. So moving forward, you know, the world is your oyster. How do you want weddings like the wedding industry to feel and like, how do you think that we have an impact on that? Gotcha. Well, I feel like the reason hetero like heteronormative, Or straight weddings feel so heteronormative is because forever the wedding industry has been following like these pretty strict traditions, like weird stuff. And I'll say a bride here, because I'm talking about a straight wedding. Mm-hmm. like weird stuff. How like the dad gives away the daughter. Mm-hmm. like, eh, no, that's weird. We should stop doing that. Mm-hmm. never should have been done in the first place. Mm-hmm. you know, little, little weird traditions like that, or. I don't know what's up with the garter thing on the leg. Oh, I don't even really know what that symbolizes, but it's gotta symbolize something nasty. Yeah, yeah. but basically to create a, the wedding industry, I hope it starts leaning to more of a queer wedding industry. And you don't have to be queer to follow that trend, just like break these traditions. We don't have to do all these weird old traditions like you could, A wedding can be anything you. you know? Yeah. And so I think queer couples and queer weddings are already doing that, and it's only gonna get better and more interesting. Just like, stop following traditions. Do what you want, not what you think you should be doing now, what people think you should be doing. Yeah. You know, retweet. Yeah. Yeah. Is that a good answer? Yeah. Yes. Which you may have already answered this already then, but why do you think every wedding should be a little queer? I think every wedding should be a little queer because. Being queer is more fun. That is true. That is true. Being and being queer just means being yourself. Yeah. And not following the status quo. Yeah. Mm-hmm. awesome. But that's the reason I say that is because everyone is a little queer. Yeah. No matter how straight you think you are, there's probably 1% of you that does weird shit. Yeah. And being queer is being weird. And being weird is cool. Right? Yeah. That's what, yeah. I said in the, in the very first episode that like when you Google it, it's still like the first definition is strange or odd. Yeah. So, and we gotta own that. Yeah. Like that doesn't have to be a bad thing. Yeah. We are strange and odd. Yeah. You know? True, true. That doesn't mean that your whole wedding has to be odd. It can still, it's it'll be cool. Yeah. Yeah. And you can, it can be whatever you want it to be. Yeah. If you want to follow traditions and do that, cool. Yeah. But if you don't wanna follow traditions and make it super crazy and weird. Yeah. That's also great. Very true. Yeah. So I'm not trying to shame anyone who likes following traditions, cuz. we're creatures of habit, and that's normal. Yep. Casey and I will be here for both of those things. Amen. All right, Casey, is there anything that you would like to share before we end with our fun little lightning round? Oh yeah. check out my website, www.flipsandfilms.com. Is that what you mean? Plug myself, Sure. Yeah. Follow me on Instagram. Flips and films.com. I guess Ill spell it out. It's P as in Paul, F as in Frank, L I P S E N, films plural.com, flips and films.com. also on Instagram, and also that was the most dab thing I have. I know. That's what I have to say. People always wanna put a H in there, so I always have to go P as in Paul, F as in. whenever I'm on the phone, even in person, I don't think it's hilarious. It's a weird, it's a weird last name, but it's fitting cuz I'm also weird. Oh gosh. If you're not coming out with your sexuality, you're coming out with the spelling of your name. Yep, exactly. And hopefully I'll be changing that business name someday, but for now, that's all I got. I love it. I love it. Yeah. okay, so I don't even want you to see this cause I just want you to speak from the heart. Okay. Rapid fire. Ron, what does this mean? Like this is just, I can't think about it. I'm just gonna say, yeah, it's like lightning round, like I'm. Spit off some questions and you kind of just like when the therapist shows ink on a board and you have to say, what's coming to mind like that Hopefully it's like an actual accurate answer, but yes. Mm-hmm. Okay. okay. Who or what, or like what character was your gay awakening? Ursula from the Lone Mermaid. Are you serious? Yes. I swear like, did you know that, you know Ursula right? Yeah. The the big scary evil me. She was, designed after a famous drag queen, divine, you know, divine from mm-hmm. You should do something. Research. I should. That's amazing. Mm-hmm. Wow. Obviously, as a kid, when you're watching a lot of Disney characters are, based on queer. All the evil villains are based on queer, queerness. Because back in the day, during the, there was the Ha Hayes coat, or the Hayes. which you couldn't, you couldn't positively portray queerness in any movies. So there's a lot of queer people making the movies, so they could only portray queerness as villains. Are you serious right now? Yes. It's a fact That's That's a thing. You should look into it. It's pretty cool. That says that like is both cool, but also like says so much. Yeah, it says so much. Like, geez, no wonder we're freaking afraid to come out. Yeah. At we, like there's still so much of that residue there. Wow. And it's, and it's very subtle, but there's a lot of like scholarly articles that look at Disney movies and be like, this Disney character is queer because of X, Y, Z, this Disney character. But Withers Ursula, it's so obvious that it's literally Divine. Which was the famous drag queen back in the day by John Waters, design Divine. but without knowing that, I didn't know any of that stuff, watching the movie as a kid, but I remember having like, I hope this isn't tmi, but like weird. I, I was into Ursula for some reason. Yeah, yeah. And I know it. Ursula is a girl, but she was queer because she was a drag queen. Mm-hmm. And when I found out later in life that Ursula was modeled off a drag queen, I was like, that's so, that makes sense now. Yeah. So weird because she's like kind of masculine. I mean, we maybe, maybe she's not a girl. I don't know. Do we know that person? No, we don't know that. Yeah. She's just a mer they're just a mermaid. Right. Yeah. Right. That is amazing how I have a lot of research to do now. Yeah. Okay. Well, lightning round, so fast, speedy. Okay. do you have a favorite queer icon? A ton. Okay. You can name as many. I feel like the first one that comes to mind is Miley Cyrus. She's not queer, but she's a queer icon because, yeah. Yeah. She's. That bitch. Yeah. Yeah. I'm obsessed with Ariana Grande. Okay. Du Lipa. I, they're all kind of queer icons, even though they're not even queer. It's just funny. Something that, no, yeah, there's a lot of people like that. But then for actual people in the media who are queer, I really like, there's a couple. pro skaters that came out as queer LA recently. Like Okay. One named Brian Anderson. Okay. He was the first ever queer skater to come out in 2016. Wow. Which isn't that long ago, right? Yeah. But he came out in 2016. And then there's Jan Horowitz, who's a queer skater. Okay. Big fan. Wow. And then there's Shandler Burton, who's also a big queer skater. Okay. Yeah. Sweet. We loved it. We loved the queer skaters. favorite color of the rainbow. oh, that's a hard one. I'll probably say I grew up, my favorite color was always orange growing up. Okay. But I would never wear it anymore. It's like it's a hard color to rock, you know? Which is funny cuz you asked me to wear orange originally, but then you to have switched to blue because someone stole it. Oh, nice. Because you weren't coming. Yeah. And very well, I'm glad they still would. Yeah. Okay. And last but certainly last least your favorite dessert, which is vegan obviously, cause you're vegan. like Ben and Jerry's ice cream on top of a vegan brownie and the vegan brownie's hot. Okay. And so the, it melts the ice cream as we needed, like. Plain vanilla ice cream or No? With Ben and Jerry's, I usually go for like fudge something with choc. A lot of chocolate. I have a C aholic. Yeah, like the oat milk ones or something? Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Oh, oh yeah. Ben and Jerry's has that whole line of non dairy though. It's so good. So good. Wow. Well thanks for being here, Casey. Casey flips in films. We appreciate you being here. And just gonna say you should hire. Amen thanks for joining us clearly, beloved. We will see you next week.