23. Creating Safe Venue Spaces for LGBTQ+ Clients

This week I talk to David and Chanti from the brand new Minneapolis wedding Venue- The Mosaic!

We talk about how to make venues more safe and welcoming to ALL couples and people in a way that includes and celebrates different cultures and identities.e

Please listen to get some super practical take aways on how you can be more inclusive in your own space or business.

Also, The Mosaic is actively seeking investors to invest in their dream of expanding their mission into 30 new venues. If you love what they are doing, please reach out to David at david@mosaicmn.com

Check them out and find all of their socials at https://www.mosaicmn.com/venue

The intro and all instrumentals were written, sung and recorded by @JaynaDavisMusic

Transcript

0:43

All right. Clearly, beloved, welcome back to this week's episode. This week I have with me the co-owners of an amazing new venue in Minneapolis. It's called Mosaic. I've actually been there. It's like. It's so gorgeous. It's so fun. Highly recommend, and we're gonna be talking today about how to make venues safe and inclusive spaces, and I just felt like these two, they just have such a great heart behind what they're doing, so I'm really excited to hear their perspective. So I'm just gonna hand it over to you two right away. And I'd love if you would introduce yourself, your pronouns, and anything else you would like to share. Um, sure I can jump in. Um, so I'm Dave O'Neill. I'm a co-founder of Mosaic. I currently serve as a C C E O as well for Mosaic. Um, I go by he, him, um, and then I'll give it to you shanty. Great. Okay. I'm am Shanty biller. I am co-founder c o o of Mosaic. Pronouns are she hers, and just happy to be here with you today. Awesome. Well, thank you so much. Um, yeah. Just to kind of give some people a little bit of context, I see that one of your slogans is a downtown Minneapolis venue that celebrates culture and creates a sense of belonging. I mean, like right off the bat, that tells me so much of who you are, and I just appreciate that so much. Like you're, Straight away trying to communicate that you are a safe space and you want people to feel like come as you are. And I don't think that, not necessarily every venue can say that, so yeah. Could you tell us a little bit more about your story and your background and how you came up with Mosaic? Yeah, so I'll, I'll start on that one cuz it kind of comes out of a story for my wife and I. My wife Fong is our third co-founder. Um, and so, and she's an immigrant from Vietnam. And so we got married about 11 years ago now. So, Uh, and when we got married, that was one big challenge we had is we really needed to have two caterers. That's so that, so food was a big source for us, and so there was places you could go and get Vietnamese food, but it was very much, they, they weren't like, if you look at premier venues and like the best aesthetics and kind of how, how we wanted to represent ourselves that way, um, that wasn't available to us because of how the catering worked. And really what we needed was two caterers, and that still is a foreign concept, um, of having, you know, an American caterer and a B Vietnamese caterer or like in the case, we had a wedding this weekend and that had an Indian, uh, caterer and an American caterer that basically because it was a multicultural couple, like my wife and I, And so that was, so that's where the idea came from because when we went through that, we ended up having to do two weddings rather than be able to just represent ourselves as a couple to both sides of our family and kind of showcase who we were. And that wasn't an option. And so it, that's where the idea kind of was born out of was how do we, how do we help? You know, we're not the only ones in that situation or that kind of jump outta the box of what weddings are kind of designed around with a lot of the, kind of the premier spaces around town. And so that's, that's the general idea of the original starting point that we wanted to work from. Yeah, and I'll kind of add on a little bit, especially touching on like the belonging piece. That was something that when we all came together, the three of us came together and really started discussing the idea that was kind of at the forefront of our minds is. We've all been in these situations where you walk into certain establishments, certain buildings, and you just have the level of discomfort. Like, I don't know anyone, I don't, I've never been in this space. I don't know that I'm, I belong in this space. I don't feel comfortable. It has a lot of history, a lot of negative past, so what we really wanna do is you walk through our doors and it's just like, it's almost like a warm hug. Like you get this weird energy when you come in and mosaic during an event where it's. Magnetic almost. I don't, it's hard to explain like exactly what the energy is, but there's like this buzz in the air and everyone just feels it. And you just want to connect and you wanna get to know each other, and that's been such an important part of everything that we do within this space. So that's just a major point of, it's kind of our guiding light in a lot of things. Yeah. That's beautiful and it, and it sounds like you two both kind of have these personal experiences that have really helped you shape what Mosaic is. Is that correct? Yes. Yeah, I think so. I mean it's, you only need to have it happen maybe once or twice where you kind of feel, you know, where you start to understand, oh there's, and then once you see it and you understand it a little bit, cuz that's, sometimes this is the challenge is everything's built for you. And I'm a white guy, so the, a lot of stuff that's built for me, especially in Minnesota, right. And so that you don't, but once you kind of see it for a second and then your empathy can take over and say, okay, well, Now who else is fitting is not fitting into the boxes that are being built for. Um, and sometimes it's, you know, not necessarily somebody trying to do something wrong sometimes. Good business practice. The way you teach business is to basically get your, your section of who you wanna market to and try to market to one group. Rather than the market to everybody, because it's really expensive to do that or it's hard to, you need to identify your customer base. The problem we have is that everybody chooses the same customer base, and so we end up with a lot of things that a lot of people, the same people not fitting in the same box. Um, and so everything tends to be built towards one particular group, which may take 60% of the market up, but it, there's a 40% out there that's not being touched. Mm. Yeah, that's such an interesting point too, right? Is you're essentially saying that by being a good person, you still can have a great business by marketing to that 40%. Right? And I think that sometimes people just assume like it's gonna be a bad business model if you know you're trying to do something that's different. So that's a great point. Yeah. And a lot of it too is it's, it is hard work and we could follow the path of least resistance, but that doesn't accommodate the larger population. And so what we do is we take on that work ourselves and we don't put that on our clients to experience all of that labor and we put that on the back end of the operation and take that on in order to elevate the client experience for everyone. I love that. I love that so much. Could, could you actually share a little bit about. What that looks like for you on the backend? A lot of it has to do with, you know, vetting vendors. There's so many venues that you go to and they have this very pristine and perfectly picked preferred list of caterers and vendors that they work with, and they've already done the betting process. They only have to do it one time and they're good to go. But for us it's kind of, A wild card of who we're going to get to work with for each event and a wild card in a good way because we get to experience so many different vendors from all walks of life and at all different stages of their business. So it's great to see the established companies come in and really know what they're doing. And then you have the young hungry, like new business owners who are just so eager and so excited to be able to operate in a space like ours. So being able to have those interactions and do that betting process with them has just been a great experience. And our. Network of vendors that we work with is so vast now and we're able to create these really great partnerships and every event is kind of mix and match and the curation of it all has just been really exciting. Yeah, so. I think the on that too, the, um, sometimes when you're fitting in, you know, again, if you fit into the box, everything is kind of set up for you and you make, get, to make smaller decisions, which is good when you get to make a decision between, like, say, three vendors that are all high quality, that's makes your life easy. And it, and hosting like major event, like a wedding, um, is super complicated and extremely overwhelming. Right. Uh, for, for everybody. And so the one challenge we have is, so they wanna come and work with Mosaic and then maybe they want to work from somebody with, they wanna highlight people from their own community or whatever that is. And so you go find some of these vendors, well, that, that network, you don't have somebody curating things for you. So it does get a little bit complicated. It's like you can either have the carry list or you can have this vast, you can do anybody, but that's really, really overwhelming sometimes. Sometimes people already know what they want and some just are like, we want something. Here's kind of what we want, but we don't know what that would look like. So our team will take that on and help them kind of narrow that down so they can, they can. Still get a high quality vendor that's vetted, um, but they can choose maybe from a smaller grouping. So it's not so overwhelming for every single vendor, cuz you need about six or seven vendors to run any given wedding. And so if none of those are curated for you, that can be a little overwhelming for sure. Absolutely. That's huge. And when you two are talking about kind of vetting vendors, what in particular are you looking for or like, Are there certain like red flags that you are kind of like, okay, maybe not so much in the beginning there aren't so many red flags. It's kind of the basic betting of are you properly insured? Do you have all the right licenses? Making sure that we can keep everybody compliant and keep the whole event integrity above board. And then you learn through those experiences. And we've learned a couple times already the hard way where it's like, Just cuz they have everything right on paper doesn't mean in actual execution that things are gonna go accordingly. But that's where our team steps in and we really make sure that no ball gets dropped no matter who the vendor is. The client shouldn't feel anything happening behind the scenes. So we really take it upon ourselves to be as hands on or hands off as we need to be. But, Yeah, we've, we've learned some lessons already and it's just been a few months. You, if you ever come to a wedding year, you'll know kind of how the vendors are doing by how much you see us. So we, we always have a little bit of a behind the scenes team really. We sit, we sit well in the background. We're not meant to be. We don't, we don't meant the event happen. There's a coordinator that kind of does that part. There's, there's a caterer, there's bar, that kind of thing. And so they're really your, your people that you'll see. But if you see us out there a lot and constantly talking on our walkie-talkies or something like that, it means we're picking up for some vendor or another that's not quite up to snuff. Mm-hmm. And so we're just making sure the event, like again, the client won't feel it at the event. Hopefully we provide enough safety net. Um, so if we do get a bad vendor, we can at least adjust for it. Um, but that's kind of what we do in the backend on an actual event day, just to make sure that nobody falls down and nobody has a bad experience based on, you know, a vendor that, that just oversold or was a little bit aggressive of what they thought they could pull off. Hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Keeps down your toes. Yeah. Amazing. Well, and I mean, you two are. Kind of a vendor in your own right. I mean, you're a venue. Um, and so that's honestly usually one of the first things that newly engaged folks looks for is a venue, cuz that, you know, kind of sets the tone for everything they need to find their date, find where they're getting married. It's kind of, you know, a really important piece of the process. Um, so in terms of. People who are looking and trying to find somewhere that they feel super comfortable. It's safe to say venues are super important in making them feel really uncomfortable. Um, what would you say that your venue does to ensure that people feel safe and welcome? I think the biggest thing that we've done is just remove these barriers that a lot of other venues have put into place. And what that does is it immediately, Calls for less compromise for a client. When you walk in and you know, like, oh, I can bring in any vendor, cuz they're like today's point earlier, there are some clients who know exactly what they want, exactly, who they wanna work with. And by us saying, yes, I'll yes to everything, basically, as much as we can say yes to everything, it creates this good relationship from the very beginning. And we created the space and designed the space to make sure that everyone just feels so included in every aspect of the event. So, That's been the biggest thing for us, just removing those barriers and taking away the need to compromise. Um, I think another part, uh, the construction of it was obviously a big piece of it. Um, we talked to a lot of different people and a lot of people come through and give us a lot of opinions, good, bad, you know, whatever. But it gave us a lot of opinions and ways to think about stuff that, you know, if we don't have that experience, sometimes you can miss things that you just didn't know. Um, like for example, like how our bar works. There's a lot of cultures or religious or religions that. That don't want a bar, and they really don't wanna see a bar. And so we built our bar a little differently with that kind of in mind. And that's really, we came at it from very much of a, um, of a culture, um, kind of point of view. And so, but we, we had some other things, um, specifically kind of more in line with what we're talking about today. Like for example, we have two suites. Um, we don't just have one for bridal parties to get ready. And in both suites we have sets of vanities. So regardless of what that couple might look like, if you want a vanity for doing hair and makeup and some of that stuff, we have two spaces for that. So both couples wanna do that. If one part of the couple or none of them wanna do it, that's fine. And we get a lot of, uh, you know, when I'm doing tours and things, it's amazing how many people times I walk people through and they, you know, they people are very much, this is the bride suite, this is the groom suite. You know, and that's just kind of how they, they're looking at things. And I have a, I have a fair amount of people like, well, why do you have vanities in this suite? This is, you know, they want a pinball machine or something more stereotypical to a, to a guy's suite. Right. And we didn't do it that way. We made, we made sure they weren't Barbie and Ken, we made sure that they, they. They gave that ability for people to, you know, to to, to use them for what they're supposed to be and not compromise themselves again to use that space or feel out of place or feel like it's not built for them. Mm-hmm. Um, we put some work into the construction side. I think one of the biggest compromise we had to do was around the restrooms, how the bathrooms worked. And that's obviously a big point for a lot of people and trying to figure out how to do those effectively. And, you know, it, it's. Adding in, like for example, two, like just straight gender neutral bathrooms would be ideal, right? So then anybody can use them, that kind of thing. And nobody has to feel uncomfortable. Everybody can find a space for themselves. The downside of that is, that's about a hundred thousand dollars to put that into our space, the way our space is built. So it comes down to budget. Like what can you realistically do? Because it that a hundred grand was at times a difference between lots existing or not existing. So, um, so it was limiting as far as what we could do. So we found some compromise. We used common sinks out at the center. Um, we have ways we can block it off to make the, the bathrooms completely gender neutral. You can use what you want and then we'll list on the door what's in there. So there's four stalls in one, there's two journals and two stalls in the other. And we just list it that way. And so people can go in and however they wanna use, that's fine. They know what's on, they know what's inside, so they can just choose as they, as they, as they want to. And that was our compromise, to be able to do the best we could with the budget that we, that we had. That is honestly so huge. Like I think you've gotta be one of the only people who I've ever met who were like, Hey, we have this problem that we can't exactly, you know, do to a hundred percent, but we're gonna be creative about it. Like that is amazing. That says a ton about who you two are and how you wanna make people feel. Super comfortable and yeah, the getting ready spaces is huge too. Like I, I appreciated that so much. You know, cuz my partner and I, we were, we modeled at your space and, um, we both identify as women and it's like, yeah. Like why would one of us have to hang out in a room with like, A moose head on the wall or something and like in a dark cave, like, no. So the way you did stuff is 10 out of 10. Nicely done. Oh, thank you. Yeah. Uh, and kind of on that note, you know, you to our very clearly, like being so intentional about how you run things, how you built things. How do you see your role in the wedding world in terms of making positive change for good in, in the wedding industry? I think it's really us calling into question how, what lens everyone is looking through. Cause we always try to look through the lens of belonging and also the lens of change. We never wanna be in a position where we've gotten ourselves stuck in. The very big box we've created, like yes, there's a more small whitewash box, but we've also created a bigger box, but it could still be restricting to us at times. So we never wanna be in a position where we are not flexible, we're not accommodating, we're not continuously educating ourselves. Every client that we interact with is an opportunity to learn something new about whether it's culture, gender, race. Anything that is important to that client, we need to make sure that we're properly educated on. So it's always looking through that lens of wanting to learn more and make sure that we are staying on the forefront of this ever-changing industry. Mm. We'll say, um, I mean there's, we've seen a venue or two that's come on after, you know, recently or that's updated their websites and there's a lot of our verbiage on some other websites. Um, so we're seeing, we're seeing that very quickly. And I mean, it's. That's a good thing, right? Because, you know, if somebody wants to copy along from a business standpoint, we always look at it from a competition standpoint, of course. Um, and so, and that's fine. People copying you is a good thing cuz we can always keep adjusting and we'll always stay out in front. So that's fine if they wanna follow along more than five. But I think what it means is like we've hit a nerve that people start to understand. Um, by, you know, just by calling it out and being, being very vocal and open and saying, we're not the only ones in the entire market that's doing exactly what we're doing, but we're the only ones doing it for the reasons we're doing it. And so I think that's, that's the part we're starting to call out. So sometimes people did have open catering, but a lot of times that was, wasn't necessarily because of the reasons that we did it specifically, it's just because they are not venue people. So they just have a room that they wanna rent, so they just want the rent from it and let somebody else deal with everything else. And it usually came from more that aspect. And so there was, so it's interesting to watch people kind of change how they're talking about themselves and what, what they think they're there for. Um, and so I do think as time goes on, it'll become more and more prevalent and more common as people start to talk about it. Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, the fact that you two have. I think you said six or seven months. Been open, you're already busy and booking out like that speaks volumes to what you are doing, and I think that's gonna be pretty hard for people to ignore. You know, I don't think everyone can say that they've been open for that amount of time and have the same kind of clientele that you do, so, Yeah. I just think that's so huge that it's like catching on and it's, you're kind of doing it in a way that's gonna be hard for people to ignore. We like to, we like to see that. Yeah. One thing that's been kind of cool is the, uh, the different, you know, the culture is obviously a huge piece because of the food and food choices and things like that. Um, country of origin, that kind of thing. And I don't know, we should track how, what we're up to, but I mean, we gotta be at 13 or 14 countries of origin, um, outside of the US at this point for couples that are getting married here. Um, we're, we're meeting all sorts of people from very different places that have, and the wedding customs are so unique and so cool. And so getting this kind of, and you know, we've started to work appointments like that if somebody comes in. Um, so we've had a few, like for example, like, um, there's a larger Somali community here. And so we've had a number of weddings or people that are booked weddings that are from the Somali community, and it's really interesting. We got to see, we got to host our first Somali wedding, so that was cool to actually understand it now. So now when they're coming, when I have a Somali bride that comes in and says, I need this, that, or the other, I understand what she's talking about and why. Um, And why they might like, why, like how everything runs. And it does run on a different time schedule than what we're used to. Um, and we didn't understand why, but now we do. And so now we, now we're adjusting to that. Um, and so it's, it's really cool to kind of. It, it's just a learning of, of everything. As you see more people come in and as, as people come from different backgrounds than you, it helps us understand it so much better and we can be very, very quick. So now as people come in and say, I need this accommodation, or, here's what I'm looking for, here's what I'm trying to build, we have some knowledge around that. So we can come at it without just kind of like, please explain yourself to me. I can actually have some information so I can start to collaborate more than just have to learn the whole time. Mm-hmm. Yeah, that is huge too, I think because I think that there are so many venue owners or business owners in general who could like literally just be like, ah, it's not really how we do things. Like that's outside of our hours, or that's outside of whatever. And it's like, yeah. It just feels like everything you're doing is like, We want you to come as you are. And that is like a huge way of leading by example too. Yeah. Amazing. Um, yeah, I'm super curious because obviously you two have, have shared quite a bit about all of the different cultures, um, and countries that you have gotten to. Or countries of origin you've gotten to serve and work with. I'm curious how you kind of see that intersection between, um, cultural diversity and the L G B LGBTQ community with, you know, just people of different backgrounds in general. Like how do you see that intersection playing out in your venue? I think the biggest thing that we're kind of gonna see is as second and third generations. Start to host events and get married. Some of their more strict cultural norms will kind of go by the wayside, and they're embracing themselves and who they are at an earlier age. And I know just from personal experience, you know, growing up in the African-American community and being religious, it's just you. You get put in a box early on and. These things. These things are bad, certain things are bad, certain customs are bad. So being able to embrace those at an early age and say like, but it's who I am, so either you accept it or I'm going to move on and find somewhere where I am accepted. So being that place of acceptance will allow us to kind of tap into a different market that hasn't necessarily come out to the mainstream yet. So that's kind of the exciting part, is to be a safe space for that. Absolutely. Yeah. I think just, yeah, it feels like you are setting yourself up very well for, you know, people that are outside the norm. And I think that, like you said, that mindset is like, people notice that. Like I noticed that. So that's amazing. Um, Obviously we would love for everyone listening here today to book with you guys. Everybody go check out Mosaic in downtown Minneapolis. But for those who are maybe not nearby or you know out outside of the state, what would you tell couples who are looking at venues to kind of be on the lookout in terms of it being a safe space for them to be in? I think I honestly, I think the, the biggest thing is make sure that you don't have to compromise who you are or how you wanna represent yourself. Um, if you feel like, well, I like this, but I'm gonna have to make this compromise. And weddings are all about compromise. You have to, you have two, you, you're marrying somebody who has a whole different family from you. Believe me, there is going to be a massive amount of compromise that happens if you're gonna make it. It just a huge amount. I mean, there's all, there's lots of pressure, internal, external, everything else. But when you, when you're getting to the venue and. That, that's such a big piece of, of what you're gonna do and how you're, how you're able to build that wedding. It's, it's the canvas that you're gonna build off of if you have to make a lot of compromise specific more around who you are. Like sometimes you don't get the aesthetics you want. Well, yeah, sometimes you have to work with that. Um, but if you're compromising who you are, if you do have only one getting ready suite and somebody's gonna stop, be stuck in a hotel. Or somebody stuck with a pinball machine and doesn't want the pinball machine room. You know, those kinds of things. Like if they're, if they're not a broey bro, they may not like that room. And so it may not be that helpful. Um, and so if you have to do some of those things where you're compromising more, where it's just truly just not really built for with you in mind, keep looking. Cuz they, there's, there's places that are. Um, and so some so be, I would just say be careful about how much you compromise yourself because it is your opportunity to repre represent yourself to your families, and sometimes your extended families and their friends. And you know, I know in my case, and I'm sure a lot of people on your podcast that are, you know, they're, everybody's kind of existing in, in maybe a space that wasn't always welcomed or may may still have some, you know, not, people aren't quite sure how this works or what to do or those kinds of things. And for my wife and I, we was a big part. What we really wanted to do, and we were young and we didn't know how to do this yet, but we really wanted to show who we were as a new couple. We weren't just, she was, she's from Vietnam and she behaved a certain way and I'm, I'm a white guy from Minnesota and I behave a certain way. We became somebody new as a couple. We really do, because it's kind of emerging of all that, and you should be able to represent it. And your wedding's a perfect spot to be able to do that. And so if you don't get that opportunity to do that, keep looking. Yeah, absolutely. And in terms of like, you know, Coming to actual, like practically speaking, um, maybe it's from questions you've already had couples ask you to or things like that. Like are there specific things that couples should be asking about? Um, something that might not normally come to mind, but that's still really important. Anything like that? I think, and Dave, you could probably draw on this a little bit more, the. Extra fees are a huge thing. It's something we get questioned on a lot, but it's more cuz they don't believe us when we say this is the price, everything's included. We don't do add-on fees. And they're like, but what if I want to use your kitchen? What does that cost? And we're like, nothing. It's already included. And like they'll go through this laundry list of questions and they're like, what if I wanna come in early for the sweets? What's the extra cost on that? We're just like, Nothing, it's included. It's almost like they don't believe us because it's too good to be true. So really understanding upfront what those extra fees can look like and having the true budget in mind. Cuz if they say, oh, a Saturday's 5,000, but by the end of everything, if you want the lights turned on and you wanna be able to like have the dance floor, anything like that, you end up paying 18,000. Then where, what does that 5,000 really get you? What does that base number actually look like? Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think understanding the numbers is probably the hardest part about finding a venue. Um, venues generally they make money and usually about three different ways. One is obviously the space fee, um, which can rise and fall depending on how much money they're making on their other three other two avenues. So the the next one is the bar and then the cater. And so every, almost every venue is gonna make money on those three items in some capacity. Um, we work a little bit differently cuz we don't pull any money off of the other two. We just use our space fee. Um, we do get some on the bar, um, depending on how we do the bar. So there, there will be that and. Um, so there is some, there's some revenue there, I guess. Um, but generally we discharge upfront for what, what the space is worth, um, rather than, so what you'll see sometimes is like, yeah, the venues might be$5,000, but then the catering, by the time you get the final bill, you're paying a hundred dollars a person. Um, versus, you know, and so basically we could do that for half with so many of the caterers that we love and that are fantastic. And so they're gonna be at$50 a person. And so the numbers start to even out very quickly that way. And same thing with the bar. You know, you might be paying. For like a hosted bar, sometimes it just adds up and it could be 50 or$55 a person for a hosted bar for the evening. Well, that's a lot. Um, but you could usually do that for 2025, um, that kind of thing. And so trying to understand how all those go, what you really need to do as you're going into the venues is try to get a final number for'em on everything. Um, so you actually know what it is because you're, there is a base base fee, but then sometimes you have to pay, like to have staffing there that you're gonna need. So we, what we try to do is anything that is that you're gonna need, like for example, we know you're gonna need tables and chairs and we know you're gonna need a microphone in our speaker system and we know you're gonna use the kitchen and we know you're gonna use the suites. We also know you're gonna wanna come in early and use the suites cuz starting to use'em at noon is usually too late. If you're gonna do a full scale, like hair and makeup, the whole bit, um, you really need to start there earlier in the day. There's just no way around that. And so we know all those things, so we just included it into one price and discharge it once. And so that, that's our approach to it. Um, and you'll find a few that do that, but a lot of that is not that common in the industry right now. It's a lot of nickel and diving, and so you really wanna get somebody to give you the final. Tell me what the final number is. Um, if you just go out to venues and you send them a big blanket, like, Hey, tell me how, gimme a idea of how much this is gonna cost. You're unlikely you're gonna get a final number from most people. And so if you're comparing side by side to that, you're probably gonna miss a venue that you can actually afford thinking it's too expensive for you. Got it. Yeah, no, that's super helpful. Um, in terms of things like, I know there's certain venues who. You know, I've heard had certain rules about like not allowing certain kinds of music or things like that, um, just because of their contracts or, you know, potentially harmful beliefs that they hold. Um, are there other questions like that, that couples should be asking? Let's see. That's a good question. I haven't heard anybody that was restricting music. That's interesting. Um, I don't disbelieve it, but that's, I can't believe somebody's still doing that of all things. But, um, yeah, I can't think of, I mean, I don't know. I think it's, sometimes it's the vibe you get. I mean, if you get told no a lot like you, here's the all the things you can't do, and you'll hear that as you come into a venue sometimes is here's the list of everything you can't do. Instead of a more collaborative, like how, how can we help you achieve what you're trying to achieve? Even if it kind of goes against, like, we can't necessarily let you stay here until three in the morning and we really, you shouldn't be doing shots when you're drinking for eight hours in a row. You shouldn't be doing a bunch shots at the bar. Somebody's gonna go down and get hurt. But how can we compromise to, to not just say straight, no, but what are you trying to achieve and can we find to do that with you? And we do that a lot. And I do that a lot cause I handle when people first come in and then I hand it over to shanty who kicks me in the shin. Like you, you agreed to what on this one? But we do that. But that's cuz you have to make it work. Um, but at the same time it is just kind of those conversations. Like it's not necessarily a blanket note. So if you go into somewhere that doesn't ha doesn't have that ability to compromise very well, and they're just set up not to really allow a lot of compromise, you may wanna start questioning things more and more and say, is this, you know, if I do have specific things, I wanna, what? What if I don't ask the right question? Um, is this gonna be the right space for me? Because I might come up with something later I didn't think of, and that's a definite no because they have very hard, fast rules. Yeah, I think the biggest piece of that is just kind of understanding the why. Like they're asking for a reason and why is it so important? Why is it so significant? And especially when it comes to cultural things, there's a lot that we don't know. So it's helping us gain a better understanding. Cuz in the beginning there were times where I was like, Dave, why? Why? Why would you do this? And then he is like, oh, it's cuz of this, this, and this. And it's like, all right, that makes sense. I'm fine. But it's that educational piece that makes such a difference. That's why we don't say no immediately. It's like, well, tell me more about why that's important. Yeah. I, I honestly love that you said that Dave. It kind of is like a vibe check, um, in terms of the couple, and sometimes it truly is about that like, Do your vibes match with, you know, what they're talking about and saying the offer. So asking for a price and a vibe check. Great. Love it. Uh, well thank you for sharing and kind of speaking to the couples who might be listening. That's super helpful. Um, I know we've already kind of talked a lot about your space and the awesome ways that you two are kind of. Leading by example and doing something new. Um, I'm curious for, we have a lot of, you know, vendors and potentially other venue owners who listen to this. What would you say to them if they're trying to make a more safe and welcoming space? I mean, I think it's all about compromise. Um, you know, when you're running a business, you know, we're running a business here, we have to make it profitable or we just won't exist. Um, and, uh, in our, in our, we we're planning on growing. And so it's, in order to do that, we have to make this a business model that'll make sense so we can get the investors we need to continue to make this happen. So it needs to be economically successful. What we're doing. That being said, that doesn't necessarily mean you have to service the one community that is already well established. Um, you know, going after, going after a group that is and saying, Hey, we're gonna be a service provider for somebody for this, for this. Like a less defined group, um, is more challenging. However, there is plenty of ways to make that work. Um, but you do have to be about compromise. You have to listen really closely. You gotta be good at putting puzzles together. Um, because at the end of the day, what this is gonna look like in a year, it's gonna be a bunch of puzzle pieces that'll fit together. So everybody that we hope, hopefully we can get everybody included. But still have a very stable business that we can turn over to employees that are able to run it. So it's not quite where you come in and there is everything has to be a decision that's really hard to grow with. Um, where you have to be able to hire people that have the ability to make those decisions. Sometimes, you know, that that gets complicated. The stuff that I make decisions on or that Shanti makes decisions on when you be able to turn that over to employees here at some point. And um, so finding a way to actually scale the company gets, gets complicated at this, but I think. For overall, if, if somebody is trying to open a venue or is opening a venue and they're looking at this, you have to be able to both compromise and listen. And if you do those two things, you'll be fine. You'll be able to, you'll be able to help people one way or the other if they're not quite fitting in the box that you've created. Yeah, and I'd say the one other piece is, I mean, we hope that everyone will kind of take a reflective step back and want to be more accommodating in these ways, but do it in an authentic way. Because if you're doing it just for the sake of capitalizing on a bigger market and you're not coming from an authentic place, then it's gonna resonate and people are going to be able to tell immediately that this isn't true and authentic. And our story is built on personal experience and it's our story, and that's what we built our entire brand on. So it's probably the most authentic thing we've ever done in our careers because it means so much to us and it's a reflection of who we are as a team. And so, That's just kind of what's woven into every aspect of this brand and that authenticity really matters to us. Yes. Yeah. Thank you so much for saying that, cuz that is so true and something that I'm constantly thinking about as you know, a queer person and the people I'm interacting with, it's kind of like, okay, like are you doing this? Just to get a paycheck or are you doing this because you're like genuinely really excited about it? Mm-hmm. Um, so that's huge. And I think that's, you touched on something really good. Like if someone's doing it and it's forced, like maybe they need to take a step back and like reevaluate, maybe like do some education, something like that, because, Yeah, that's just not gonna be a good experience for who you're serving or you honestly. So yeah, I'm glad you brought that up. Um, and honestly, yeah, kind of on that note, if there are people who are kind of like digging their feet or like hesitant to change or do something out of the norm or serve like a different clientele, um, do you have any words of wisdom or advice to share with those? I mean, one of the obvious ones is don't let one bad experience become how you, you know, how you, how you what affects your future, right? Mm-hmm. So you said, well, I did, I, this one person came in and asked for this. Concession from me, and I said yes to them, and they're from this particular community and that didn't work out, so therefore I never do that again. And it's, that's not how it works. Our very, one of our first weddings in, um, one of the cultures here in the Twin Cities was a bit of a disaster. We made it work, but we were not a, we did not know what we were doing going into it, and we didn't really know how to put parameters around it. And it didn't work on either side. They didn't know what we expect from them. We, we were expecting things that we. Apparently didn't communicate the right way or that it was understood. And so it was a bit of a disaster that we, we managed to make it through and everybody was very happy. That being said, we didn't say, well, we're not gonna do that anymore. Um, all we did is just learn a few lessons from that. And we communicate Earl earlier and better now because we actually know what we're talking about. So now we know the, the pitfalls that came from that particular part, that particular wedding. And we say, okay, so now, now here's how we're gonna adjust for that going forward. And so you have to be very careful. I mean, you see that a lot when somebody is to Shanty's Point, inauthentically making those, they're not really, they're, they're just saying, well, Just from a capitalism point of view, it makes sense for me to go after this community. Um, the moment that it gets hard, they all of a sudden aren't that interested anymore. And it's very, you know, it's like one thing goes wrong, never again. Right. Things like that. And that's where, you know, where that inauthentic in inauthenticity comes from. You can spot it that way because it's very hard and fast. We don't do that anymore because of this one experience. It's like, you can always do it again. Just be better next time. Mm-hmm. Yeah. I love that. Do you have anything you'd like to add, Shante? No, I think Dave took all my words. We talk, we look very small office. Okay. So we don't have a lot of joint individual thoughts anymore. They're all, no, it's all, we're weirdly one brain and sometimes some of the weirdest ways. So this is one of those good ways though, where like, I think Dave really hit the nail on the head. Awesome. Yeah, I mean like, I feel like in general when even when you are serving maybe one kind of clientele, like maybe most of your clients are like straight white couples, in your mind you're still kind of like, oh, you know, every couple is, every couple's love story is different. And then as soon as it's someone that looks different than that, And that's where the digging the heels comes in. And so, yeah. I'm glad you brought that up too. Just trying to like carry that same mindset over of like every couple is unique. So like I. Yeah, you could have a different experience with every couple and just trying to, as you have been saying, to compromise, well have some patience, have some empathy. Those things go a long ways. Empathy is the big one that everybody seems to miss. Um, and so there's a bit of a war on empathy going on, I think, in our culture in general. And so it, I think empathy is one of those things. I mean, we preach it constantly. Chanting I have for years, and in this company and other companies, it is warmed into the fabric of every company we've ever been in. Um, just for that reason. Because you have to understand what the person is, where they're at, what they're doing, and why. And once you understand the why of what they're doing, You can understand why they made the decisions that they did and where they are today. And I think that's one of the things that everybody misses so consistently. Everybody likes to have a little sympathy is like, oh, they're, you know, it's this or it's that. But again, as soon as it gets a little hard, they drop back to where they're at rather than understand where their other person's at. Wow. Yeah. That is truly something that all of us can take away, like learning to cope, like learning to. Understand where other people are coming from. I, yeah. If anyone's listening and you didn't get anything else, get that. Try to practice more empathy. I love it. Yeah. Awesome. Well, thank you so much Dave and Chante. You two are amazing. Thank you for the work that you're doing, the thoughtfulness you have. It's so needed and so appreciated, and I'm just so excited to see where you two take this like. Definitely need more, more good vibes like this. So thank you so much, and I'll be sure to leave all of your information in the show notes so people can go check you out. Perfect. Thank you so much, Anna. Yes, and clearly, beloved, thank you for joining us this week. Make sure to tune again next week.