Charting the Course for Financial Sovereignty with Atrium Labs on Cardano

Unlock the future of blockchain with Big Pay from Atrium Labs as he takes us on a riveting journey through the twists and turns of the Cardano ecosystem. From his humble beginnings as a crypto miner to his influential role with the Bloom stake pool, Big Pay's insights offer a treasure trove of knowledge about the importance of state pools and the community's pivotal role in driving innovation and decentralization. As we chat, the depth of his experience becomes a beacon for understanding the intricate nature of blockchain's growth.

Step into the world of Atrium Labs where innovation meets user empowerment. Big Pay recounts his evolution from crafting Minecraft videos to championing for the underdog stake pool operators within Cardano, leading to the creation of Diffusion, a staking basket concept that rewards community support with ADA staking rewards and Atrium DAO tokens. His passion for fostering an ecosystem that rewards participation and promotes a user-friendly experience shines through as we discuss Atrium's commitment to seamless interaction and the enabling of financial sovereignty for users across the globe.

Venture beyond the mere act of staking as we showcase Atrium's cutting-edge financial offerings and smart contracts, which allow users to dabble in decentralized exchanges and services through their social profiles. Big Pay demystifies the realm of Cardano's smart contracts, emphasizing their security, non-custodial nature, and the vital role of community-driven platforms. By the close of our discussion, you'll be gripping at the edges of your seat, eager to explore how Atrium aligns with Cardano's foundational principles and redefines the landscape of decentralized finance.

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Welcome everybody to Cardano Over Coffee. We got a great show for you today and remember, you can join us live on Xspaces Monday through Friday, 9.30 am, eastern Standard Time, 2.30 pm UTC. We want to give a big thank you to today's show sponsor, cardano Spot. The Cardano Spot app is building to become the ultimate gateway to the Cardano ecosystem, breaking down barriers with open access articles and the hottest content in over 10 different languages. Download the Cardano Spot app today on Google Play or the App Store and join over 40,000 users on the future of social media powered by Web 3. What a great show we got for you joining us today as Big Pay from Atrium Labs. Listen, then, to find out what they're building on Cardano and how you can participate today.

Speaker 2: 0:50

Oh, snacks. We're gonna get into a little cup of conversation with our friends over there at Atrium Labs, very excited to hear all the great things that they are cooking up here in the ecosystem. Do retweet the room, re-beep the boob, get some other friends up in here for this awesome experience. Cardano Over Coffee Tuesday. What's going on? Big Pay, my friend, how are you doing on this fine, illustrious Tuesday morning?

Speaker 4: 1:17

I'm doing wonderful. It still says listener. Can you guys hear me?

Speaker 2: 1:23

Yes, sir, I can. We were having some issues before the connection issues. It's far for the course when it comes to Twitter spaces on X, but hey, man, you're connected and we are rocking and rolling.

Speaker 4: 1:34

Great to have you join us Hi Pay. How are you? Hell, yeah, man, I'm doing wonderful, just waking up, making some expresso, enjoying the nice morning here. How are you guys doing?

Speaker 5: 1:44

Well, I'm slabbergasted, but how did you get the Atrium Blackjack? I'm asking a CS question. How did I what.

Speaker 3: 1:58

Am I the one in person who's seen a little Atrium icon next to Pay's name? What the hell?

Speaker 4: 2:07

You just have to pay Twitter too much money.

Speaker 3: 2:11

Oh my God, how about I have an aneurysm? Guys, I've been talking about this for literally three years and Atrium Labs has done what Cardano couldn't. That's the tweet. Welcome to the space, big Pig. Glad to have you, thank you. Thank you, yeah, looking forward to hearing about Atrium and you have massive props for me that you have a hash flag on the space. Well done.

Speaker 2: 2:40

Branded content. You can see it up there, atrium Labs, with the Square PFP and the Gold Checkmark and official business here making it known. We're going to take a deep dive into all things Atrium today, hearing about what Big Pay and its friends are cooking up over there with Atrium Labs, some very interesting test net experiences coming out, staking baskets. I hope you're hungry for a big, fat T-bone of knowledge because it's about to get served up. But, big Pay, for those who may not know, you're a very familiar friend of Cardano. But for the record and for those who may be listening in later on on our podcast, could you give us an introduction to your background? How did you come into Cardano and brought you here today? Sure?

Speaker 4: 3:24

So in around 2017, I was buying and selling computer parts so I was actually still in college at the time and one of my buddies came in and I think you know this might have been at the end of 2016 too and he said hey, man, you know, you could make money with all these TPs you have lying around. And I was like really, and that night I kind of just like it just sucked me in. I stayed up all night and, you know, started researching about how to mine and within a few weeks I'd already watched the Charles White Board video and picked up eight, around nine cents before the dollar and 25 run. That happened on Binance shortly thereafter and you know a lot of people after that time they kind of they lost some money and went away. And for me, I really believed in the.

Speaker 4: 4:07

You know the early passion about crypto. You know I thought that, you know, a centralized government, bank, digital currency would eventually come and you know I felt that crypto could bring a lot of freedoms for the world and it just became my passion as a 17-year-old, really till now, you know, at 24 and just waking up every day and while doing my schooling, I would always come home and kind of read more and more about crypto and as I was doing the mining back then, I quickly realized that I'd kind of missed it. You know, I felt, like you know, I was spending, you know, maybe $2,000 on miners and mining, like you know, such a small percent, and you know, the Ethereum transaction fees were already quite high back then. So I thought, well, you know, state pools are coming in 2018, as Charles said, so I'll just stick around till 2018,. You know, set up a state pool and start running the Cardano blockchain, and that didn't end up happening until December of 2019. They launched something called the incentivized test net and it was actually a whole different thing. What was really cool about it is it got a lot of operators to start learning about running state pools and it started building, you know, a really strong community here. That eventually led on to the friends and family test net, which I was a part of, I think there was. It was the first 23 state pool operators that brought us in and then we were kind of tasked with helping other people learn about running state pools. And then, you know, building a state pool. I think we kind of had to train two more people and then eventually that group expanded to around 120 people and then the test net opened up for everybody.

Speaker 4: 5:45

And then, you know, when Mainnet came around, I launched my first state pool bloom and we actually made it to eighth block on Cardano. And you know, throughout that time I was making the first videos for people like how do you even create a state pool, how to delegate ADA, and these were kind of videos. Just you know, me and my college dorm with my you know $30 webcam, you know very badly recorded, saying hey, you know, here's your wallet, here's Daedalus, you know, here's what a state pool is, here's what some of these fees are, and kind of just explaining it, explaining everything to, you know, regular people, and also making more technical videos on state pools. And I've really just kind of kept at it over the years. You know, started doing podcasts with, you know, charles and Ben Gortzel and Sunday swap when it was launching and just to really stay consistent, after you know a few years we eventually went on and launched, you know, rare bloom, which was, you know, we launched it around the same time as NFT XLV. So you know, those were really the first two Cardano focused events, a large scale in the community and you know, right around the time of rare bloom, you know, I just I started thinking about, you know, this idea of multi delegation and you know I've also done a lot of work locally.

Speaker 4: 7:02

You know, just at coffee shops, like you know, if someone you know in my community, my local community, asked anyone about crypto, they kind of just recommend me to them.

Speaker 4: 7:10

So I'll go sit down with them at a coffee shop or a Cava bar and you know, kind of teach them the basics, teach them how to protect themselves.

Speaker 4: 7:17

You know I've helped a bunch of old people like get their money out of like crazy Ethereum projects and you know, just been doing that stuff for years and I just realized that what people need is one application that aggregates the various financial services on the blockchain into one platform that teaches you how to use them.

Speaker 4: 7:38

Because I've had the, you know, when I'm helping someone set up, they have like eight or nine or 10 different websites open to swap, to buy an FT, to set up a wallet, to buy, you know, the original token to put in the wallet, and it's just too much and it needs to be simplified and kind of aggregated and all into one platform and that's really, you know, one of atrium's core goals and we'll get into a couple of the other goals later is, you know, aggregation, education and accessibility through, you know, a nice easy UI with all of you know those platforms that you like to use. You know in one with the you know little eye icons that you can click with, you know video guides and text guides built right into it, and I can kind of share a little bit about what that looks like at the top here.

Speaker 2: 8:54

Yeah, man, I was going through your timeline and, of course, the atrium account looking for some resources and there's already a number of great things pinned up there, but I just wanted to give you a shout out before we get into it, for the work that you've done as a content creator yourself.

Speaker 2: 9:07

Not sure if you ever set out in this life to be a voice or an ambassador or an olive branch to people outside of the space, but you've done a great job over the years in expressing some very complex topics and breaking them down in ways that are digestible and understandable for the everyday person, and it seems that you're carrying that ethos to the floor with this atrium platform. Very much in the same regard in terms of getting people involved in a really comprehensive way in the ecosystem with staking, and curious to know what was the touch point that inspired you to take a staking head on. Obviously, you're a state pool operator, right, and you've been in the ecosystem. You've seen the educational work that needs to be done, and what was the thing that really inspired you to focus on staking as opposed to all of the other moving parts of our ecosystem?

Speaker 4: 9:59

Well, you mentioned, like you asked kind of, did I set out to kind of be a voice of the community? And I want to answer that because I don't think I ever have before. That was kind of a great comment and the answer is no. I kind of really like this stuff. I loved making videos. I started making videos when I was actually 12 or 13 years old and they were Minecraft videos. So it was really just a weird cross of like you know me loving cryptocurrency and computers and technology and me also liking videos at the same time and kind of being in the right time and right place. But you know, I really didn't set out to do any of this. It kind of just happened and you know I just kind of fell in love with it as it was happening. As far as, why would I focus on the staking ecosystem? That's such a good question. I understand it really well because of those ITN days and those friends and family tests that days and from running a pool for so long.

Speaker 4: 10:55

About two months after Shelley Long, I made a video on my YouTube channel and it went into the A naught parameter and you know the video was guised at kind of helping smaller pools. You know, first we talked about the minimum cost per epoch and we said, hey, you know, the minimum cost per epoch, if someone only has one or two or three million ADA state, they're going to lose almost all of their ADA to fees, so their pools not going to be attracted to delegators. So we kind of made that video, you know, very early on, saying, hey, you know, we should probably look at lowering this. This is really impactful for new pools. But we also have to look at the A naught parameter. The A naught parameter, you know, in these friends and family days that I was talking about earlier, we were told that you would essentially be limited to the number of stake pools that you have based on the pledge that you have. And this would actually, you know, be good for some smaller operators, given that they had the pledge, because larger operators couldn't create multiple pools because their pool wouldn't be attractive to users. And that's why when we launched, you know, bloom, you know I got together with multiple people and we launched multiple pools with high pledge, because that's just kind of how we were taught early on. And then, you know, as it shakes out, pledge didn't actually matter. So there really was no limit to the number of stake pools that somebody could create.

Speaker 4: 12:23

And you know, back then we were told that decentralization would work. You know, in the way that you know the only way a pool would be attractive is if they had stake and pledge in the ecosystem. So the only way that they could gather stake, you know, is by having kind of that large pledge there. So you know how do you essentially get users to care about decentralization? You pay them. You know this, this, like you know crypto and this decentralized nature. It all is driven on incentives. And you know, to get people to delegate towards decentralization, you know, as I mentioned, you just have to pay them.

Speaker 4: 13:02

I mean, if you look at ISOs and you look at, kind of, you know where staking has gone, it's been away from, you know, single pool operators or even multiple operators that are, you know just, you know taking that data and putting it back into the ecosystem. It's gone towards funding projects like Mel or you know Palm, or you know all of these new ISOs. And I kind of, you know, watching all of that happen with my early knowledge led me to think about this idea for a staking basket called diffusion. And what diffusion does? It delegates to 50 different single-stake pool operators at the same time and rewards users that deposit their data in there.

Speaker 4: 13:43

With the atrium DAO token plus a to staking rewards for supporting 50 small business businesses and Cardona's decentralization at the same time, and this is really the first staking basket.

Speaker 4: 13:56

You can come in and create your own staking basket in the future with your own composition of stake pools. But atrium actually has a token rewarding framework built on top of these smart contracts that you'll be able to come in and use to reward people and drive stake. You know to the operators that you feel kind of need that in this ecosystem. But that really is the long story of like, why did I focus on stake? You know it's just it's from that core idea about pledge that for you, for people, to care about decentralization, you have to pay them and you know, currently in our ecosystem you know people aren't paid to care about decentralization like we were told they would in 2000. So you know, that's one thing that I kind of, you know, wanted to solve and kind of prove with atrium and the staking basket ecosystem is kind of that original idea and concept that was proposed, you know, by Cardano, you know, back in 2020, before Shelley launched.

Speaker 2: 14:59

I love it, man.

Speaker 3: 14:59

What a great historical background and what a journey you've been on.

Speaker 2: 15:03

I remember that A-NOT video that you came out with before. I was actively involved in the NFT scene and you know the community more personally. I was definitely just a passive sort of investor. Get it on the exchange. Watch the videos and your content was definitely one of those touchpoints for myself getting oriented into the Kerdon ecosystem and what the builders were doing. Man, so great efforts that you've made there so far and what I really like, not only in terms of the ethos that you're doing but in terms of the user experience. Give us a background who's on the Atrium team? Because whoever's doing your guys UI, it's pinned up at the top. I pinned it thing, but then I saw you did as well to find out so people can see it live there. The interface of this platform looks very clean, very nice, great distribution of things. Who is cooking in the Atrium kitchen to make this come to life?

Speaker 4: 15:55

You can actually see him down there. His name is Project he's probably blushing in a British accent right now. He's the creative director at Atrium and we also have an amazing lead developer and he helps out a lot with the front end and his name is Brian. They've been both on the team since the beginning. You can consider both of them co-founders of Atrium. They've had as much cooking in the kitchen as me because they were on the team even before Rare Bloom when we started it, when it was just an idea. Big shout out to them.

Speaker 2: 16:29

Absolutely Big shout out to the team. It's real clean. You guys can check it out there at the top and you can see this type of interface that you're going to get into A lot of different questions that I could ask about this. But I'm curious to know with staking baskets, would there be a social element to these things? Let's say, Bone Pool my friend over there in the chat he set up a really sick staking basket that gets 10 different pools from this area, 10 different pools from that one, and I want to just basically copy his template. Is there a way that baskets could be shareable on this platform?

Speaker 4: 17:02

That's actually a good idea. I don't think we've gotten down into the weeds as far as making the button where someone could just take the template of someone's basket, but that's definitely a great idea. But you mentioned the social aspect, the second smart contract that we're going to open source this year. I didn't mention it. Staking baskets are going to be open source this year, by the way, too, because a lot of protocols don't have the ability to currently multi-delegate. There's usually about one pool that's owned by each protocol that they delegate all of the Treasury A2 to or all of the TVL A2. When there's smart contracts too, hopefully us open sourcing this code. Dap developers can save hundreds of thousands of dollars by just taking a look at it and seeing how you can multi-delegate on Cardano. But the second open source smart contract that we're going to release this year is called the user account and FT contract. What this contract allows you to do is it actually allows you to come in, you create an NFT and then you actually have user selections you have. Maybe you could link your Twitter to it or your AID address and you have a status and all of these datums actually live in the NFT in the smart contract on chain after you mint it and you can actually customize these over time. What it's going to look like in MVP is an NFT that lives in your wallet with a picture that you can customize. This NFT you can actually level up over time by interacting in the Discord, by interacting with the website and staking baskets, and what this is eventually going to lead to is a web page in atriumio that you can customize. You'll be able to put your favorite NFTs on there one day, or maybe you can put your JPEG lists and NFTs on there and just share someone a link to your atriumio profile so they can just purchase your NFTs directly there. You can also use these to follow other profiles and pages as well. If you're in love with AXO or Sunday Swap, you can just go follow them and get project updates directly in the app from them.

Speaker 4: 19:11

So how does this tie into your question? These staking baskets are actually going to be profiles in themselves, so you could add, like diffusion, that first basket that I mentioned. If you go to our alpha right now it's actually live alphaatriumio. It's on Cardano's preview network right now. You can just click try diffusion in the top right hand corner, given that you have a preview wallet set up and that is kind of an early mock-up of what a profile is going to look like.

Speaker 4: 19:46

So when someone creates a staking basket, they're also creating one of these profile NFTs. You know selecting their pools and they can also put you know heavy design elements, you know on the top, to kind of customize that profile. And you know, just to kind of mention some more people on the team too. We also have, you know, two or sometimes three more backend developers working on atrium. We've also worked with two separate smart contract firms in the past. We have a whole legal team and we also have sorry brand farting a little bit, oh an audit team as well. The staking basket contracts have also been audited.

Speaker 2: 20:30

At this point, that's awesome, man, such an innovative collection of different aspects of our ecosystem and the technology for what it enables, from smart contracts to NFTs, man, and you're putting it all together in this one great smorgasbord of ideas and opportunities called Atrium. Again, it's pinned up at the top. I'm curious to know with this initiative, 50 stake pools is probably more than the general Cardano user is even aware about. How does Atrium facilitate searchability for pools? Is there a system by which you guys are categorizing pools and making them searchable? Or perhaps could I set some parameters and say I want to delegate to the 50 pools with the lowest delegations and the highest pledge, find me an aggregate of that subset and just auto-delegate to those. What is the user journey like for finding all of these different operators?

Speaker 4: 21:30

In the future we would like to introduce staking portfolios and multi-delegation and wallet to where the user is just multi-delegating to the pools that they select with solely their wallet, whereas staking baskets are really curated baskets by a DAO or by a centralized basket admin. Diffusion, for example, is going to be an Atrium DAO basket. The first 50 stake pools in that basket are actually going to be voted in. The first vote is going to be with ADA, because the Atrium token hasn't launched on the Cardano yet. If you see any Atrium tokens, they're fake. You're going to be able to go to voteatriumio and you're going to be able to vote for the operators in that selection. All these operators have to actually apply to be in the vote. There's a chance that millions of ADA on Mainnet go to these single-stakeful operators from Diffusion and there's going to be more votes that happen after that, maybe to add in more pools in case a stake pool retires.

Speaker 4: 22:44

One thing that's really cool about baskets is, even if you have five pools retired out of the 50 pools in the basket, you're still only going to lose 10 percent of your rewards until the people in that basket get together and vote out those five retired pools. Then you come in. You create your own basket with your own mission. You could think well, one of the issues with the world is that there's too much plastic in the ocean or there's not enough mango trees planted because we've built too many beach houses or too many riverside houses. You could actually take 10 percent of all the rewards from the basket and somehow prove that you're doing that in the real world planting mangroves or taking plastic out of the ocean and then reward people with a token that represents how many mangroves they've planted or how much plastic they've pulled out of the ocean. Or someone could make because a lot of people are entirely driven by profit they could make a collection of ISO baskets themselves and charge a 2 percent fee that goes back to themselves to curating the 12 to 17 best ISOs on Cardano in one basket.

Speaker 4: 24:04

Ultimately, it's really up to basket creators, basket admins and basket dals. As far as the composition of these baskets, a lot of it really is just going to be up to the community as well, because these basket dals are going to be a collection of, eventually, thousands of different users that are voting on what pools are actually in these baskets, whereas the multi-delegation and the staking portfolios that I mentioned earlier is really just a user in their wallet deciding what multiple pools that they would like to delegate to. I actually think both of these features coexist. I think someone could have a wallet with 10,000 ADA, deposit 1,500 into their favorite basket and then multi-delegate the other 8,500. I think that's good for the ecosystem all around.

Speaker 2: 25:03

Yeah, man, I love it. So many interesting and moving parts, and if anyone wants to come in and ask Peyton a question, do feel free to hit the request button and come up here as we're rolling on into the morning. Man, so many different things that I could ask about. I'm very interested in the tokenomics of the Atrium token, but with respect to time and I do want to highlight this tell us about the incentivized testnet, because, as you mentioned, you were a participant in the incentivized testnet of Cardano and it seems that you're taking the lessons from that experience and really trying to innovate it in a new way. So what does it look like and how can people get involved?

Speaker 4: 25:37

So Cardano would not be what it is today without that incentivized testnet, a lot of these OGs that you see, love them or hate them. That community was formed and that knowledge was formed early on, back in December of 2019 and all the way leading up to, I think, august of 2020. So those guys went on to help a lot of people learn about SPOs and we kind of want to follow that same pathway with the incentivized testnet. It's really shocking to me just to say hey, it's live, but it is, it's alphaatriumio, it's live on Cardano's preview network. So with our incentivized testnet there's no risk. You're using testata in a test wallet, you get a free 10,000 ADA from the faucet once per day and essentially you're going to join the incentivized testnet by completing a few staking basket transactions. We've also written a full medium article that I'm going to share up here on the top. Okay, so if you click that second tweet there, the one by Atrium that says on Friday, and you scroll down a little bit, you'll see the join the incentivized staking basket testnet. That goes into all of the tasks. But essentially, for completing those tasks, you're going to be eligible to claim atrium tokens on mainnet once the site launches and these tokens are going to be vested for eight months but you'll get kind of a 10% or a little over 10% of your distribution right away when the site launches and then you'll be able to come back each month to claim those from the site, month after month, from that smart contract that actually holds these tokens. And we're actually doing two separate incentivized testnets and you haven't missed any yet. So you can still get both testnets right now incentivized, both of the eligibility to claim tokens from the site, as long as you try out staking baskets. Now you read that medium article and you stay tuned, because a month and a half or two months from now we're going to be launching our second incentivized testnet and the second testnet is going to be themed around the user account and a PSPAR contract. You know actually minting user profiles, you know all on testnet. And then after that we're gearing up for mainnet launch, to launch all of these products together on mainnet. And so far we launched the incentivized testnet on Friday. We've already had 4,000 people try it and that was a Sunday number over the past few days and you know they've been beaten the heck out of it. We've already, you know, pushed I think, two or three. You know semi big updates that made it a lot smoother and made the process a lot better.

Speaker 4: 28:32

So if you guys run into any bugs on there, you know please let us know. There's a bug report form. You know, as I mentioned, we have a team of developers full time building on Cardano. Just looking at all these feedback forms and really the best thing about the atrium team is that we've all been in Cardano for the past few years. We've all like, shied a lot of the projects and there's a lot of patch in there.

Speaker 4: 28:57

You know when you guys are sitting up at you know 10pm on a Saturday night and you send a bug report form, you know there's at least a couple of us online working still like, oh, we got to take a look at this one. So we do appreciate all those forms. You just know. You know it is an alpha, but you know two months from now, you know all of these bugs that you see in the app aren't going to be there. As you know, we're working day by day to fix them and it's it's honestly been really fun, kind of just having a problem arise and then trying to figure out how to solve it and make it better. And, you know, without having 4,000 people hit it all at once, you know we wouldn't even be able to solve some of these issues. So we really appreciate it.

Speaker 2: 29:38

That's amazing man in the media articles now pinned up at the top in the first tweet that you can check out there and find out some more. We are rolling up with time and we do have a second guest, but we do have some community questions. Tipsy Turtle joining us, followed by Joker pool, a stake pool operator here in the system. Tipsy Turtle, happy Tuesday. How are you, my friend?

Speaker 5: 29:56

Tipsy Tuesday. Yeah, man, happy Tuesday guys, you know. Thanks for having me up. I just wanted to ask you know, payton, a quick question for your mind. So it's user accounts and staking baskets. That's the. Those are the core products of Atrium. Just wanted clarity.

Speaker 4: 30:15

So you know we kind of go back and forth between user account and FT smart contract and the STOA smart contract and staking baskets. You know staking baskets is the one that delegates to the multiple stake pools and the user account and FT is the one that really is the foundation for the social media platform that we're building on Cardano. It's, you know, it's a blockchain focused social media platforms. It'll be missing some features that you know normal social media platforms have, but have blockchain features that you know normal social media features do not or platforms don't have. So you know we were when we open source it. You know we're going to be labeling it as the STOA user account and FT contract when we open source it.

Speaker 5: 30:59

Got you. So, if I'm allowed to ask a quick follow up question, so yeah, man, go for it, thank you. So when it gets to the point where I guess you'd consider yourself like a social media platform, is that where, let's say, the aggregation of you know, like the Cardano's, let's say, core financial products, hop in or or like did I miss something? I was trying to get, I was trying to figure that part out.

Speaker 4: 31:29

Yeah, you know. So let me, let me preface this with you know, people live in different jurisdictions all over the world and as we look towards the future, you know we're obviously going to have to follow the regulation of all these different jurisdictions. But for any site you know, in your jurisdiction that is legal. What we would like to do is all you need to do is go to their profile to swap on their decks or to meant to CDP or to meant jet. So, you know, you go to atrium, you go to, you know at symbol Jed, and then it pulls up the Jed profile and then you can see the ways to mention or to meant Jed or to swap on Axo. You know all in these, you know social profiles that live in the site. But just to kind of, you know, bring the hype down a little bit.

Speaker 4: 32:20

You know, my kind of view of the space is that we are kind of heading towards global adoption and mass adoption and what's going to come with that is regulation that we all have to follow, and what we're trying to do is, you know, get into a point in which we are capable to meet these regulations and all these different jurisdictions, so that when you log into atrium. You know you know what products you know you're allowed to use at that time. You know that's kind of like our one to two year mission and in the meantime, before you know, some of these regulations come in. You know that's what it's going to look like. Is you know you're going to be able to use all these various services directly in the profiles from the platforms themselves?

Speaker 2: 33:09

Sweet. Thank you, tipsy Turtle, for those amazing questions. And we did have one more community question from our friend Jokerpool, a great pool operator, friend of the show, friend of the community. He asks do you keep your ADA in your wallet or are you putting it in a smart contract and thus losing custody? Curious if you could speak on that.

Speaker 4: 33:27

So this is a great question, joker. I really appreciate that and that really is the one nuance of staking baskets. And earlier, when I mentioned you know, what do I see a normal user doing? I mentioned that, you know, if a user had 10,000 ADA, they would keep 8,500 in their wallet and then, you know, put 1500 in the staking basket of their choice and then multi-delegate the other 8,500. What the user is doing is depositing into a smart contract and then receiving basket tokens back from the smart contract. These basket tokens are equal to the amount that you deposited and then, as the epoch change, the basket tokens are equal to the amount you deposited plus your ADA staking rewards.

Speaker 4: 34:13

There's no luck on the basket, specifically the diffusion basket. So if you deposit in and say, hey, you know, I changed my mind you can withdraw them at any time. You know, given that someone creates liquidity pools on DEXes, you should be able to swap these tokens or use them in DeFi protocols. You know, given that these protocols support them, like lending. You know, because there is, you know, real ADA in a smart contract that's backed up to these tokens, and that's also why we worked with, you know, kind of the best in the industry to build these smart contracts, mlabs, and then worked with a really good auditing firm. Because what you know, the direction that we're heading towards is all on-chain governance of these baskets, to where, when a user votes on the composition of the basket, it automatically updates itself on-chain.

Speaker 4: 35:09

And you know, one of the reasons I found Cardano and really, you know, took a liking to it is because of, you know, the peer-reviewed research and this idea of using Haskell, which is a formally verified, you know smart contracting language that should lead to, you know, more secure smart contracts. And you know, when I speak to smart contract developers on Cardano, you know that's what they all say and you know that's why we haven't seen any major hats of large smart contracts is because they are more secure, you know, given that you use, you know the right tooling and you know what you're doing and you use a right auditor. So, yes, you know you do have to deposit into a smart contract, but that doesn't mean that you're giving someone else custody of that asset, because you know, these smart contracts, you know, essentially have a technical specification associated with them and in that specification, you know, it states that you know no one can withdraw funds except for the user that deposited them using those basket tokens. And then an auditor you know a third-party auditor comes in, reviews that technical specification, reviews what the contract is promising and it's, you know, promising that you know no one has custody of the funds in the contract and that's been signed off and reviewed, as you know, good to go. So you know, yes, you do deposit into a contract, but you're not losing custody of your asset as you can withdraw it with those basket tokens that you deposited.

Speaker 4: 36:43

You know, and this is kind of, you know, weird back and forth in our industry and you know, kind of you know, governments are kind of having an issue with this too, because there is like a nature of custody and crypto and to me, like a you know, custody is when you deposit into a smart contract that someone has control over the payment keys, or you deposit into a centralized exchange in which they have custody of your assets. But you know, the vision of Cardano and the vision of smart contracts is to build truly non-custodial platforms that are governed by DAOs, and that's our ultimate goal with ATREAS. Great question, appreciate it.

Speaker 2: 37:23

Nice man. Yeah, great question, Joker, and there's some additional ones in the comments Pay that I would suggest checking out, from Gold Rush talking about DRAT baskets and abstract potato, our next guest asking about the utility of the atrium token. But we do have a second guest and I do want to be mindful of time. So if you could give us a final call to action, something for the community to follow up on, where can we go to get involved in the incentivized testnet for atrium and keep things cooking with you guys in 2024?

Speaker 4: 37:54

Go to discordgg forward. Slash atrium lab. Give us a follow on Twitter. Make sure you join the incentivized testnet. We're gearing up for a mainnet launch this year and you know we're also going to be launching the profiles. You know, as I mentioned, you're going to be able to send you know to people with those you can type in at big pay to send to people. So just join our community. You know we're not asking for, you know, anyone's money or anything. So all you have to do is just come in, try it out for free, give us some feedback and we'll bring a better product to mainnet.

Speaker 4: 38:24

We're also hosting three events this year. I'm going to be hosting an educational event for new users in Florida. We're also going to be hosting an event in London and we're also going to be hosting an event in Austin, texas. So stay tuned on the atrium account. You know two of these are going to be networking events. One's going to be an educational event for new users where we help them set up new wallets and give them some assets to get them started. So you know, just follow us, just engage with us and you know kind of help us push. You know our main goal is to onboard a million users and you know, over the next year or two, and to do that we just need your support, your likes, your comments, your feedback to make our platform better, and you know a lot of people have already been doing that. So thank you guys so much. Thank you, cardano Over Coffee, for the great space and awesome questions. It's been a lot of fun waking up to this, so I hope you guys all have a good day.

Speaker 1: 39:14

Thank you for listening to Cardano Over Coffee and big shout out to Big Pay for joining us to teach us all about what's going on at Artrum Labs. Check them out today. We want to give a big thank you to today's show sponsor, Cardano Spot. The Cardano Spot app is building to become the ultimate gateway to the Cardano ecosystem, breaking down barriers with open access articles and the hottest content in over 10 different languages. Download the Cardano Spot app today on Google Play or the App Store and join over 40,000 users on the future of social media powered by Web. 3. We want to give a big shout out to our monthly podcast supporters the wizard Tim, DiscoverCardanoBookio Project, KAMP, Linda from StakepoolTicker, M-A-L-U, Twisted Gears, Meehan, Enigma, StakepoolTicker1, Monster, StakepoolTicker, M-N. S-t-r, EpochSec and Psycho's the Cardano card game. We appreciate all your support. If you'd like to have your name or business mentioned in future podcasts or have your logo and links displayed in the description of our podcast, click the support button now.