Charting the Future of Interactive Geolocation and Digital Real Estate

From the vibrant streets of Berlin, we ignite a conversation with Bjorn of Smart Places, who takes us on a fascinating excursion into the SocialFi ecosystem on the Cardano blockchain. Imagine a world where technology doesn't just connect us virtually but enhances our real-world interactions. That's the vision Bjorn paints as he explains Smart Places' pioneering strategy to intertwine the virtual and the physical, incentivizing genuine human connections. Our discussion traverses his personal evolution from a lawyer to a tech maven and the revolutionary impact of NFT Lamp-Lot maps that promise to transform app user experiences and airdrop executions. As we celebrate Women's Day in the German capital, a tribute to the power of community and connection, we also raise a metaphorical latte to our listeners worldwide, inviting them into this dialogue on reshaping social engagement.

Venture further with us into a realm where geolocation gaming platforms aren't just games but gateways to novel fundraising, real estate, and community involvement opportunities. We dissect the potential of digital asset markets that mirror the complexities of real estate, fostering local engagement through ownership of virtual land plots. Addressing community concerns, we tackle the issue of geosquatting and the technical challenges of location spoofing, emphasizing the robust security measures that preserve the integrity of the user experience. This episode isn't just a peek into the future of SocialFi; it's a journey into a world where the lines between the digital and the tangible blur, powered by the ingenuity of blockchain technology and the limitless possibilities of platforms like Cardano and Ethereum.

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Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:00

Welcome everybody to Cardano Over Coffee. We got a great show for you today and remember you can join us live on Xspaces Monday through Friday, 9.30am EST, 2.30pm UTC. We want to give a big thank you to today's show sponsor, Cardano Spot. The Cardano Spot app is building to become the ultimate gateway to the Cardano ecosystem, breaking down barriers with open access articles and the hottest content in over 10 different languages. Download the Cardano Spot app today on Google Play or the App Store and join over 40,000 users on the future of social media powered by Web 3. Oh, snacks. Joining us on the show today is Smart Places Social Fi done right. Join, discover and earn. Listen in to find out what Smart Places is up to.

Speaker 2: 0:55

We're going to have a couple of conversations with Smart Places, but I do not see them in the chat, so I guess we'll give them a moment or two calling paging Smart Places.

Speaker 3: 1:06

I see them in the chat. I'm going to invite them to speak.

Speaker 2: 1:09

Let's go.

Speaker 4: 1:11

Get on up.

Speaker 2: 1:12

Yes, sir, yes, sir, requesting Smart Places joining us right now. Very excited to have them here on Cardano Over Coffee for this Thursday edition Social Fi Happy Thursday. How are you feeling today?

Speaker 4: 1:27

Yeah, thanks for having me guys. Great, great. What about you all? I mean great, great mood here. I hear that A lot of fragrance is cut. And then also the National Woman's Day. Just for fun fact, we have Berlin, I'm out of Berlin. We have tomorrow's official holiday here. It's official woman's holiday. Woman's Day holiday.

Speaker 2: 1:50

Shout out to Berlin Big toast to the cup of coffee for you guys from across the pond here. Many of us friends of the show are on the other side of the pond, but we have at least Elle close to you over there at Wales and you have a big toast of a latte of love for you guys and thanks a lot for joining us here today. Awesome to see you and really excited to get a deep dive into your project, especially because you are purporting to do it right when it comes to social Fi and this has been a narrative that we've seen in many different instances and curious to hear about what contributions you're looking to put forward. But before we do, my friend, give us an introduction to who's behind the PFP. Who are we speaking with? You're live in Berlin, obviously, but what's your background and how did you come into Cardano?

Speaker 4: 2:38

Yeah, exactly, Bjorn, from Berlin. I'm actually a few roles so, from being a lawyer actually to an entrepreneur, Later the co-founder of Smart Places. What brought me to the blockchain? So actually I have a passion for tech and blockchain. So, from a legal perspective, blockchain is very exciting. It's a very special topic. Many aspects are still not clarified, as you guys also know, so I started to look deeper into that. Later I was auditing some centralized social media platforms from a data privacy perspective. You can imagine that is exciting. It's called it that way. So it was, for me, very interesting to see that there are projects, people working on decentralized alternatives. That was really fascinating me and that was the starting point actually. And there I started to yeah, that definitely brought me deeper into that space.

Speaker 2: 3:42

Amazing man yeah, really excited and, I think, a bit timely in terms of RealFi being the topic of the hour today. I know that you have in your profile, in the banner, your slogan is socialfi done right, and we've seen Stars Arena, we've seen FriendTech, we've seen Hainakoi here on Cardano Many different instances of socialfi as a platform, project or initiative, and you're purporting to do it right. I'm curious to know what others have done wrong. What do you see to be the greatest shortcomings in the instances of socialfi we've seen thus far?

Speaker 4: 4:20

Yeah, that's a great question. So, yeah, we say socialfi done right, but of course that means not that we wanted to say that the others are doing that wrong. It's our interpretation of how we think socialfi could be done right. But just to give you a small background, so also to explain what drives us. So, simply put, we think that the current state of social media is just not sufficient.

Speaker 4: 4:43

So our mission is to transform the sense of social interaction. So I'm putting really the main focus on social and interaction. So we believe that in our interconnected on the one hand, but at the same time, very isolated digital society, it's high time for rethinking social networks. So that's precisely why we have decided to build a bridge between the virtual and physical worlds and to empower human interactions and encounters. So, in a nutshell, so in the smart places, we aim to build not only a social ecosystem but also to foster those real life encounters and, using digital tools and technologies, to go beyond those virtual barriers.

Speaker 4: 5:27

And I think that is an important point before I explain a bit more what this means in our case. But you know today's socialfi I mean great projects definitely, but what we mainly see is that those platforms and those projects. They are concentrating on the decentralized element, but still you have more or less social media platforms, right? So the kind of of interactions that are happening are still comparable and we want to change that. We say and I tell you in a second what what we mean with that we are focusing on real life interactions, so we want really to bring people together in real life. So it's not only a decentralized component, but it's also a real socializing component.

Speaker 2: 6:11

Yeah, I see in one of your threads you're talking about how social does not mean isolated, trying to bring people together, and I noticed that there's a bunch of different incentives that you have outlined and I believe that will be in the form of your own token. And again, to speak to those other platforms, it seemed to me that there have been many different iterations of social fire attempts and they all surround keys and individual personalities that you can effectively tokenize your own social media account in some way and then people can trade that. And so, with your incentive model, is there a difference in approach than what we've seen thus far?

Speaker 4: 6:45

Yeah, exactly. I mean, we have also, of course, seen those models and yeah, I think there are many that are really great. But again, we have another approach. So you can say that with smart places as well, maybe in the natural smart places, we have social network that rewards users for connecting and interacting. So you know traditional social media platforms.

Speaker 4: 7:03

This model is quite simple. So you get a free service, while the platforms earn revenue by monetizing your data and displaying ads. So in a close, centralized system, it's nearly impossible for the users to know what data is being shared, who is receiving those data and what do we do with them then finally, so it's highly intransparent and what seems to be a free service, it's often actually not a free service, right? So you're the product and you pay with the data. So our vision is to change this model by empowering our users. We call that connect to earn. So our central mechanism means that we want to innovate those data ownerships and the rewarding system in social media in general. So we want to put the users back into the control seats, you can say, so they decide what personal data they want to share, what activities they are engaging in and how they want to utilize their rewards, and this autonomy is an important shift from traditional platforms where, like I said, users are having little control over the data and receive actually no compensation for contributing and putting efforts in.

Speaker 2: 8:44

Yeah, I pinned it up there at the top that you can see you're calling it a connect to earn model, and so in this instance it seems a bit similar to the Brave platform the basic attention token where people, users of different platforms, are never compensated for their attention to view advertisements. But in this case, what you're putting forward is the compensation for the data related to your internet usage. And so, with that data usage, if I was a user and I wanted to connect to earn and let my things be known, what's the life cycle of my data, where does it go, who's getting it and how does the compensation come?

Speaker 4: 9:20

back to me. Yes, so sharing data is actually just one component, and that's what I wanted to highlight here. So, yes, that is the one element to say I share my data, I'm in control of my data, so I decide whether I want to share or not and if I do, then I will be rewarded. So that also has a privacy component. But the other aspect and that is also very important that is the reward element in terms of rewarding interactions. We want people to be active and to contribute, and that not only includes data sharing because, like you said, there are, for example, brave Brothers, something like that. So for being active, on the one hand, but also a sharing component, but we say this interactive element for contributing to real life interactions. That really matters. And maybe it makes sense at this point to explain a bit more how the mechanism in general works, because what I just explained, that is, you can say, the kind of foundation of what we are doing, so like the core, and on top of this core we are building two products and that is important to understand. I don't know if you have seen already our NFT Lampplot website, because that is an essential element here. Maybe I can quickly just sum that up, because I think then it makes more clear where we want to get with this whole project. So what we have done and that is, by the way, I think it's nearly two years ago we have been here on this podcast was a great discussion, and that was at the time where we launched our NFT Lampplot platform the first time. I remember a great discussion about Indianapolis and whether Indianapolis could be a smart place or not, or whether they are, in general, potential smart places and interesting places. So that was a great discussion. But again, what we have done, we divided the world into small hexagons. Each hexagon represents a virtual piece of the real world In those lamp plots you can buy as an NFT. Why would you want to buy a lamp plot as an NFT? Because our NFTs have real-world utility.

Speaker 4: 11:20

The NFT holder will be rewarded for all social interactions that are happening on this lamp plot. When people are active on this lamp plot or her lamp plot, you receive your rewards. The same goes for business involvement. If there are businesses active on your lamp plot or in general engaged, for example placing ads on your lamp plot, you will receive rewards as well. You can actively promote your lamp plot, so invite people to come to your place or, in general, promote it in terms of sharing updates or latest news about communities. In this area, you can do a lot to push people to come to your place, but also to involve the business. Here is the reward component. We say you are the lamp plot holder, so you push this ecosystem, you invite people, you invite businesses and that is what we want to reward. That reward element is like an element that we have at every place of the ecosystem installed.

Speaker 4: 12:28

We have this for, in general, sharing data. We have this for the lamp plots. We also have this for the second product that we are developing at the moment, and that is the mobile app. You need to understand those components to have the whole picture. Again, we have the core that is what I described in terms of Connect2Earn and with a transparent and fair rewarding model On top of the lamp plots, people like us behind the desktop. They can buy this NFT, they can promote a real-world location and then you have the real persons that are actually on those lamp plots. Those will be the app users.

Speaker 4: 13:15

You can imagine that is an app explorer tool. You use this to explore your close vicinity. Close vicinity is exploring in terms of people. You can reach out to your close vicinity, meaning you can make a post, for example, share your socials, whatever comes in your mind. Whatever you want to do at this time, you can communicate with, again, your immediate environment. You also can use this for explore, for example, events or also business offers, because we enable our partners brands, also advertisers, but also communities and NGOs and so on to place virtual items on the map. That means it's a bit comparable.

Speaker 4: 13:57

This element is a bit comparable to Pokemon Go.

Speaker 4: 14:01

As an app user, you will find those virtual items on your map.

Speaker 4: 14:04

All you need to do then is to physically go there, switch to the CanView and then you can explore the item as a grab it and explore it.

Speaker 4: 14:14

This could be one of our partners we are talking with, for example, adidas, so if they are promoting a new sports shoes and they are putting those virtual items there and you, as a user, can collect it and again finding out what's behind, it could be a voucher, it could be a link to an online offer that's up to the partner to decide about that. Then you have this whole worldwide ecosystem, including, not only a fair basis, what I just described in terms of reboarding and data sharing, but having also two elements that allow you to integrate all but with always a final goal of pushing and supporting real-life interactions, because we want people to go out and that's what I meant in terms of social media and also social fight done right, in a way like connecting people, bringing them really together, not just connecting on a network, which is also great and has benefits, but here it's like we speak about real-world experiences. That is what we want to push and support. We think this combination is very suitable for that.

Speaker 2: 15:24

I love it, man. That seems really exciting, especially with eyes on the calendar looking forward to some in-person live events, rare EVO or things like the Cardano Summit. I think that an experience like this would really blow people's minds In terms of the claiming and the different things that you might find in the AR. Curious to know have you had partners or you yourself on the team considered integrating the SIP-99 proof of onboarding so that when you use the AR, it could be an airdrop for some different Cardano assets?

Speaker 4: 15:54

Yes, great that you say that we are actually right now working on the next stage of utility that we will put out on our NFT Lamp-Lot map. I mean it's now, we are between us. But what we do is that our partners will be able to place, for example, nfts on the map very soon, as we are talking about weeks. Within the next weeks we will have this utility out, but also, like you mentioned, airdrops. Our partners, actually all the businesses and so on they can register on our map and then just decide what they want to put there. Then it's exciting for the users Already. Now it will work. Visitors of the maps can just navigate to this place where the placement is done or was done. Then you can explore it or also claim.

Speaker 2: 16:52

That's awesome, man. We have Jonah coming up in the hand up and then I have a follow-up question, but I'll pass the mic to our friend here from the community, jonah GM. Happy Thursday, my friend. You have a question for our guest.

Speaker 5: 17:02

Yes, I do great space today. Nudes, you always hold it down. You do such a great job as a host. I do have a little question for smart places. I Was curious if this is referenced. What you were just talking about with the land plots and one of the Issues maybe started throwing this little negative tinge here is that I see that there are a lot of people that are like Geosquadding and I wonder if you thought about that in the way you Launched the purchasing of the virtual land plots. I thought it would have been a good idea to Make sure that folks were actually physically in the location when they purchased a land plot, because that would have sort of tied that In person social aspect to the land plot allocation. Did you think about that at all? Did you worry about Geosquadding at all when you, when you thought about how you distributed that?

Speaker 4: 17:54

Yeah, great question. Thanks for thanks for that. Actually we have. We have done it in a way like we have done it now with with, with purpose, maybe, to explain that in this direction also. So we have intentionally Put the whole system up in a way like you don't need to have any kind, especially not as an app user. You don't need to have any kind of crypto knowledge to to use the app right. That is for us essential, and Part of the whole also go to market strategy. It will be seamlessly usable. So you as a just normal guy, can use the app and all those elements that later come up as all those. Those are the challenges and things you need to maybe know that will come up later. So if you want to claim tokens later and so on, that is, we will explain this then in the app and we think that is the only, yeah, reasonable way to do it. So first, on what people, with having a compelling utility to you know, convince users just because you have, yeah, you have a tool that you just love and want to find out right, and once you have on board at them Then you can explain.

Speaker 4: 19:01

But coming back to to your question, so that means for for an app user. The app user actually doesn't need to understand at all Whether there are land plots out or not, because, as an app user, all you do is you like, like you use Google Maps outside or something right, so you don't need to understand anything around. All you do is you use the app and then you have fun, right, finding people, connecting with people, or explore your vicinity and then grab the items and so on. But the other words, the second world, that is the NFT land plot world, and that that is nothing that the app user needs to understand.

Speaker 4: 19:34

That is actually the world you know outside, like like us now behind the desktop, and they and we buy a land plot, be promoted, we put in information, but you know, for, for that user, it doesn't matter whether information is coming from in the end, right, and so we we have not set it as a kind of requirement to say you need, or you only are allowed to, to buy a land plot where you are physically. It's actually the opposite. So it's like Buy a land plot and then you can support it from from outside, wherever you are actually. So it's more up the question, like what is a, what is a place that that is of interest for you, and of course we will have later including mechanisms so that you can delegate, for example, this kind of land plot administration. So it's actually not a limitation, it's more an additional feature.

Speaker 5: 20:27

Can I? I also want to clarify one point and then maybe push back slightly on what you just mentioned. My my question would be is our land plots in the virtual world tied to the real world? And my my understanding Is that they are. Is that right?

Speaker 4: 20:40

Yes, exactly Okay sir.

Speaker 5: 20:42

So my, my pushback is a little bit. Let's say somebody's living in London and they buy tile in Los Angeles. How are they going to get people to engage in that tile plot? Like they have no physical reference to the space, they might not even understand what businesses are on that street in the space. That was kind of my question. It's sort of like you're by allowing people to buy plots where they don't exist, I feel like it's not gonna be utilized as much because you want local activities, isn't that right?

Speaker 4: 21:14

It's really a great question and we also discuss this, of course, in advance, but we decided to do it that way because we we are actually doing in several steps. So, first, and that is the face that we have now, we want to attract people that say that they are part of the system, right, so that they buy a plot when they think, okay, that is reasonable to own that, and whether they finally are really Promoting this plot. On whether they are able to do that, that is the second question because, again, we will have later utilities that will allow that you can Delegate or lend those plots so that other people, maybe those that are more Familiar with the place, that they can do this for you, right? But this is a second step and also important it's like it's not really for this whole ecosystem, not completely necessary that you always have those inputs on Each lamp block from the lamp lot owner.

Speaker 4: 22:07

The system also works, actually, without those components, because our task as a business is to to have enough excitement in general For the app users in place, because those are the people that are that, in the end, need to be excited and need to be convinced, right? So it isn't, it isn't interesting point, definitely, but again, that is we. We Put that aside and we'll focus on exactly the point you mentioned in the in the second phase.

Speaker 5: 22:37

I appreciate your response. Thank you so much.

Speaker 2: 22:39

Yeah, great question, jonah. We do have a legend in the house of my home in Esco what's going on? Happy Thursday, my friend GM, and do you have a question for a guess?

Speaker 6: 22:49

Yeah, well, it's a two-part thing. I just wanted first a round of applause and you know what a round of applause because this is, this is innovation, right here. You know how many people love geocaching and all of that. This is amazing. Like, how do you does that? Like dawn on on on the versatility of this, like it's no longer, it can no longer be. How about this? You can add facets as to as to how you distribute stuff, how you incentivize stuff, you know, with digitally issued assets, right, I'm sure they can expand to other chains, wallets, all these other things, but the model itself is brilliant. You know, it is is amazing. Congratulations to you guys for innovating something that people love all over the world Geocaching and all of that. So kudos to you. That's phase part one of my, my little addition to the conversation here. And then to Jonah, I agree with you that it would make sense that maybe, after they go through their, their first phase of, like you know, fundraising and I Develop and iterate.

Speaker 2: 24:06

Did he just for a?

Speaker 6: 24:06

gap. Can we lose oh?

Speaker 3: 24:08

there he is. We lost you a little bit. Can you hear me yeah?

Speaker 6: 24:11

can you hear me?

Speaker 2: 24:12

Yeah, I cut off it.

Speaker 6: 24:12

Okay, sorry. So so you know, like to not limit their ability to fundraise and so on and so on. At the very beginning, in such, really, I think it's fucking brilliant. You know, doing this sale to whoever you know in phase one, wherever you want to buy him, and so on and so on, it creates A market of just like real estate. You know, I live in a different state. I can go buy anything wherever I want, but then in phase two, it would be cool to incentivize the people who purchase it where they're at. So then you can bring those two components you know the scarcity of certain areas because of you know the concentration in population in those areas and then also incentivize people to you know that can purchase a weather present in those in those land plots or whatever, because in that way they're actually going to be able to Physically incentivize whatever would happen in that region because they are present. So that's brilliant.

Speaker 6: 25:07

I'm not gonna take more and more of this time. I think this is amazing, for you know distributions, airdrops, you know incentivizing travel. This is brilliant. And oh, my goodness, I don't. Where have you guys been? I'm in spaces every day, all day, and I've never heard of this and shout out to Karan over coffee, for once again you know Digging in the back rooms and and figure in finding this amazing. It is amazing and I got my ears.

Speaker 5: 25:37

I just want to jump in and say that yes, I mean my. My original comment came because when I went on to smart maps I saw all the areas that I wanted to purchase already purchased, so it was a little bit of foam. Oh, that brought my you know to my attention. So you know, I'll be fully transparent there.

Speaker 6: 25:53

No, it just it makes sense, it really makes sense and Started but making my head buzz like all these ideas and always I stay and it's just. It's incredible, dude, like geo cashing is is huge, like, and then people just do it with like a little GPS, little mapping. Imagine, like you know, we're heading into the integration of digitally issued assets, whether it's in Cardano, ethereum, federated blockchains, whatever you want to call it, man, like it doesn't matter, it's just digitally issued assets, and and and and. Ideas like this can scale. You know that it is just so scalable that you guys are gonna have, in my opinion, a very bright future. So this is refreshing and again, thanks to Karan over coffee for doing it and and bringing it to the light, big up as go hell.

Speaker 2: 26:38

Yeah, man, totally agree and love the innovative Possibilities that platforms like this present, not only, like I had mentioned earlier, with like live events, but I mean I'm sure that the wheels returning man in terms of like regional businesses and so many other things like it's Definitely very powerful and love to hear it. We do have Joe as well, joining us with the handups while past the mic to them.

Speaker 3: 27:00

Yo hey, good evening, good morning. Where are you guys at? I love the energy from Esco man. But yeah, sorry, not. But and yeah, I agree with him right, I'm a huge buff of geolocation games and stuff like that. I've played ingress for years and I'm also Quite a number of plot holder. It's quite a plot holder in the smart places ecosystem. I bought tons of plots, but all within where I met physically. Because I also think that there should be an incentive moving forward right in some of the later phases, incentivizing folks that have access to the ground nearby so that they can actually actively participate in enhancing the space. I think there's something here. I really do.

Speaker 3: 27:48

I do have one question, though, and that is more towards you know, playing playing these geolocation games for a while, you notice a lot of people have the ability to spoof, to spoof their locations. Do you guys have any mechanism to circumvent things like folks trying to spoof their location, or Penalties or anything along those lines? Out of curiosity, man? Anyway, I'm glad to see you guys are getting up there. I just want to throw my question in there. Cheers.

Speaker 4: 28:18

Thank you. Thank you for the question also. Maybe now I have some opportunity, esco. Thank you so much amazing feedback. That's great to hear that. Yeah, and also Thanks job for for this question also the feedback. And yeah, indeed, that is.

Speaker 4: 28:34

That is a point we considered from the start, because we we know that I'm actually the Technical aspects I'm the wrong person to answer that, but yeah, we have mechanics in place. We need to have, because that is indeed crucial, but yeah, we have, we have as a solutions for that that that is definitely doable. We discussed this was a tech team from the start, because we said, okay, if we have here anything that how people can I don't know make making fraud or whatever kind of finding ways to, you know, grab the stuff without being there, then then we are lost. So we put a lot of focus on that and we are very confident as there's there's, no, no lack. But yeah, it's important point. It's good, of course, that we have a strong Technology team there.

Speaker 4: 29:25

Experience, you know work for Microsoft in the past and build huge platforms and so on. So they also in the gaming industry Our city, you have been and also our front-end developer. So we have, we have a very experienced team and they considered this challenge from the start and that's why we have we have not an issue there.

Speaker 3: 29:45

I'm glad to hear that. Right, I really am. Yeah, so I don't know whether it's a good idea to post the mechanisms that you use to circumvent it, but or you know, because sometimes when you post it up then you just give a break ground for people to break around it but maybe whether there's any mitigation that's in place as well For things like that, because I think as people come into the AR space, they would love. I think eventually people would realize that you know you get these kind of folks running around stealing NFTs without being there. You really want to get ahead of that and maybe have some information out there for the People in the project to sort of get an idea that there is some mitigation around Spoofers and things like that. That'll be awesome. All right, man, thanks a lot.

Speaker 4: 30:37

Thank you so much for the feedback. That's also a great point because I remember we had those talks also with our partners, because those of course, have the same they're afraid of some of the same, yeah, issues, and so we already have had set up a kind of documentation how we, how we handle that and, yeah, it's great point. So, of course, usually actually there's there's no reason why we shouldn't publish that. But, like, like you said, we need to do it in a smart way because of course, we don't want to put out a cut of instruction of how to how to go around that.

Speaker 1: 31:11

But, yeah, great point, thanks everyone for tuning in the Cardano over coffee and thanks smart places for joining us. We want to give a big thank you to today's show sponsor, cardano spot. The Cardano spot app is building to become the ultimate gateway to the Cardano ecosystem, breaking down barriers with open access articles and the hottest content in over 10 different languages. Download the Cardano spot app today on Google Play or the App Store and join over 40,000 users on the future of social media, powered by web 3. We want to give a big shout out to our monthly podcast supporters the wizard Tim discover Cardano bookio Project camo Linda from stake pool ticker. Malu Twisted gears, me hon a nigma. Stake pool ticker one monster. Stake pool ticker MN, str, epoch sect and psychos the Cardano card game. We appreciate all your support. If you'd like to have your name or business mentioned in future podcasts or have your logo and links displayed in the description of our podcast, click the support button now. You.