Ashlyn introduces her own personal support systems, her trusted therapist, who is rose loving, and an aspiring stick figure artist (not really, but she could be!), Chelsea Cassel. We unmask the often overlooked truth—caregivers and parents are also victims of trauma, even when they are not the direct recipients of a traumatic event. In this discussion we navigate the murky landscapes of trauma, grief, and guilt, shedding light on the varying reactions to trauma across genders. Our exploration of pain triggers and the necessary practice of processing traumatic experiences opens the doorway to how we can begin the healing process.
Between the two of us, we dig deep into the realm of emotional processing. Chelsea, with her expertise as a Marriage and Family Therapist, guides us through the healing potential of journaling, scheduling time to process, and being compassionate towards ourselves. We contemplate how trauma can take the reins of our lives, seeping into our everyday routines, and how essential it is to take back control. Towards the end of the episode, we touch on the liberating power of acknowledging our traumas and how to move forward when our bodies harbor memories that our minds might not recall.
We stressed the importance of not minimizing our experiences and admire the resilience that emerges from this process. We explore the power of self-dialogue and encourage listeners not to shy away from seeking professional help. Chelsea and I conclude by emphasizing the healing force of support and connection, advocating for self-care and self-expression. This emotional odyssey, laden with insights and revelations, is an invitation to us all. Come, join us, as we traverse this uncharted terrain together so we can take the necessary steps to free us from the strongholds of "trauma brain" and be the best advocates for our children while reclaiming our own lives.
Get your copy of She is Charlotte: A Mother’s Physical, Emotional, and Spiritual Journey with Her Child with Medical Complexities by Emily K Whiting on Amazon
To get more personal support, connect with us directly at: CharlottesHopeFoundation.org
Email: Contact@CharlottesHopeFoundation.org
Facebook: Charlotte's Hope Foundation
Instagram: CharlottesHopeFoundationInc
Ashlyn introduces her own personal support systems, her trusted therapist, who is rose loving, and an aspiring stick figure artist (not really, but she could be!), Chelsea Cassel. We unmask the often overlooked truth—caregivers and parents are also victims of trauma, even when they are not the direct recipients of a traumatic event. In this discussion we navigate the murky landscapes of trauma, grief, and guilt, shedding light on the varying reactions to trauma across genders. Our exploration of pain triggers and the necessary practice of processing traumatic experiences opens the doorway to how we can begin the healing process.
Between the two of us, we dig deep into the realm of emotional processing. Chelsea, with her expertise as a Marriage and Family Therapist, guides us through the healing potential of journaling, scheduling time to process, and being compassionate towards ourselves. We contemplate how trauma can take the reins of our lives, seeping into our everyday routines, and how essential it is to take back control. Towards the end of the episode, we touch on the liberating power of acknowledging our traumas and how to move forward when our bodies harbor memories that our minds might not recall.
We stressed the importance of not minimizing our experiences and admire the resilience that emerges from this process. We explore the power of self-dialogue and encourage listeners not to shy away from seeking professional help. Chelsea and I conclude by emphasizing the healing force of support and connection, advocating for self-care and self-expression. This emotional odyssey, laden with insights and revelations, is an invitation to us all. Come, join us, as we traverse this uncharted terrain together so we can take the necessary steps to free us from the strongholds of "trauma brain" and be the best advocates for our children while reclaiming our own lives.
Get your copy of She is Charlotte: A Mother’s Physical, Emotional, and Spiritual Journey with Her Child with Medical Complexities by Emily K Whiting on Amazon
To get more personal support, connect with us directly at: CharlottesHopeFoundation.org
Email: Contact@CharlottesHopeFoundation.org
Facebook: Charlotte's Hope Foundation
Instagram: CharlottesHopeFoundationInc
Whether you've just been blindsided by your child's diagnosis or you've been in the trenches of their complex medical needs for a while, empowered by hope, is here for you. Though we wish you didn't know this heartache, we're so glad you found us Together. We can walk this journey in hope.
Speaker 2:Hello and welcome to the Empowered by Hope podcast. This is Ashlyn here today and Emily and I are kind of doing something a little different. We are dividing and conquering today. So Emily is actually going to be recording another episode with a really fantastic guest on the stages of adaptation, but today I had the opportunity to bring on somebody who's actually been really, really important in my life and has made a big difference is putting it lightly since she came into it and I have felt very passionately about sharing this particular person with you all, just because I know, like I said, what a difference she has made.
Speaker 2:And without really further ado, what I want to do is just introduce you to my actual own personal therapist, chelsea Castle, who, like I said, she came into my life. Gosh, I think I started talking to you probably a couple of months after Emory's surgery. Actually, even looking back further, I think I talked to you before that and then it just kind of fizzled out because I was trying to focus on relationship stuff. Then everything happened with my dad, and then pregnancy fooled myself into thinking I was good and then I was not, and so, luckily, I remembered how good my first couple of conversations were with you and got back on your schedule and I have not left you since. I don't plan to anytime, as long as you will keep me. But Chelsea is a fantastic, fantastic therapist, and I started going to you really because I wasn't even aware of what was wrong with me, other than I knew that everything in my life was making me feel like a total spaz after Emory's surgery, like I just felt like a neurotic, overly sensitive walking nerve and I know that's very descriptive, but everything was just so intense and I literally felt like I wasn't living my life. And this was all as a result of probably multiple things building up, but really it was the climax after Emory's major major surgery, experiencing almost losing her twice.
Speaker 2:But after she came home, right, I thought, ok, we got through the worst of it, so now I should be good, Like all is well, we got past the worst of it, we're not in the hospital anymore, she's healthy, so therefore I should be OK.
Speaker 2:And dot dot dot, I was not. So what I want to do is I'm actually going to hand it over to you, chelsea, and what I'd love for you to do is introduce yourself in your own words and give us a little bit of fun information about yourself, and then we'll just go from there and start talking about really just what are the basics of trauma, what does it mean and how does it apply to us as parents and caregivers, and then I think we'll end the conversation today with just a couple of tips that anybody can walk away from this with. And even if you can't get into a therapist as much as we are going to encourage that through this session just because we all need outside help Chelsea is going to hopefully give us some great tips on a couple of simple things that we can do just to try to help process our own trauma, so that way we can continue to live our lives and be the best advocate we all want to be. So, chelsea, take it over, hello.
Speaker 3:Yes, my name is Chelsea Castle and I have been in the mental health field since 2014. I graduated college in 2014 with a psych degree, then I went to Indiana Wesleyan for my graduate degree in marriage and family therapy, and then I've been working at a private practice called Healing Hearts of Indy since I graduated with my masters, and then I've just been kicking it since then.
Speaker 2:She's very good at kicking it. Why did, I'm curious, why did you choose this field? Honestly?
Speaker 3:to be fully honest, I so I originally went into nursing and I couldn't pass classes, and so I was myself. I was just like, what do I really enjoy? And I was always fascinated with like serial killers or like like extreme mental health, like schizophrenia or like dissociative identity disorder. I loved my psych classes in high school and so I was like, well, I still really want to help people. And I was just like, how can I still do that? And then I just decided, okay, well, I love psych, and so let me just go the therapy route, and then I really loved it.
Speaker 2:That's amazing and I love how you. You switched paths and you actually found what worked with you, instead of trying to force yourself to fit into something else, which I feel like so many of us do. You realized, okay, I know what I actually care about, what I'm passionate about and that matters. So let's pivot and see what else is available to me that clicks with how my mind works and what drives me. Yes, yeah.
Speaker 3:So when I changed my parents, when I told them, I'm like, yeah, like serial killers, like I'm really into it, I'm like fascinated, and they're like, okay, well, no, figure something else out that you can do instead of doing that. And then because they were like terrified of me, like going to prisons and stuff, so I'm like, okay, well, I'll keep it a little more simple. And then I loved working with like couples and then individuals, and then I was like, okay, I like this path a lot more and I just could not pass the nursing classes. I'm horrible at math and chemistry.
Speaker 2:You know what? I would say that I don't even think it's fair to say that you're horrible at it, because I too used to make that statement. But now I've just said I just have decided my brain just doesn't fit in those boxes and that's okay.
Speaker 3:I have other boxes that work for me.
Speaker 2:See, I like that so much better. But there you go. Yeah, trying to force ourselves to fit into something doesn't mean we're not good at it. It just means it's not meant for us. Yes, it's a better way to ride that out, at least better for your self-esteem too.
Speaker 2:But well, like you said, chelsea, you do both individual and couples and I want to be transparent about that as well that it's really cool that, while I started out working with Chelsea for individually, we've also, you know, we've progressed in our relationship where we now do couples counseling as well with you, my husband and I, and he's doing some of his own counseling, and it's another thing that I would say has just been essential and critical, honestly, in giving our relationship the life support that it needed. Because this journey, while trauma that we're going to talk about today, we're going to talk about it more from the perspective of you as an individual, how it affects you, whether you're a man or woman listening to this, whether you're a parent or a grandparent or a caregiver. We'll talk about more the individual experience, but the reality is is we all experience trauma to different degrees, in different ways, and we all have different reactions to it, and so by working with Chelsea or any therapist really, who's trained to work with couples, there's been a ton of value in learning and understanding the differences in how my husband and I have handled trauma, because I would say Andy didn't even really consider himself as having experienced trauma, he didn't even look at that as something that he could identify as being his pain, his hurt. He hurt for our daughter but didn't really recognize the impact it had on him until I was all too ready to point it out to him. And it worked a lot better when Chelsea came into the picture to help us with that.
Speaker 2:So if you're listening to this and you're thinking, oh, I should probably pull my partner into this to listen to it, get to the end and make that decision, and then I think eventually it would be awesome, we'll probably have, I think, multiple visits from Chelsea in the future and dive into maybe some of those couple dynamics that you're so good at explaining and just helping us understand.
Speaker 2:But so let's dive into just very, very basics Trauma 101, set of psych 101, right, it's all together. I know that in my experience or I understand trauma a lot better now, but I have been surprised by how many parents' caregivers I've talked to since starting this journey who are kind of shocked when I tell them that I started seeking help to deal with my own trauma from this experience, my own medical trauma, my own PTSD from our daughter almost dying and the light bulbs that go off in their eyes and also, I would say, a decent amount of shock honestly always surprises me that there's a lot of people out there who don't think it's appropriate to say that they themselves have experienced trauma, because it's their child that's gone through trauma. So can you talk about that a little bit and help us understand, maybe just from a basic principle, what trauma is and why somebody who's not physically experiencing something is still going through trauma?
Speaker 3:Oh, yeah, absolutely so. Basically, trauma just the broad concept of trauma it's this lasting emotional response that for the most part, results in a very distressing events. That happens in our life. And the thing about trauma is that if we don't allow ourselves to feel it, or if we don't allow ourselves to give like, if we don't give ourselves permission to recognize it, our body stores it and it stays with us and then it's going to come out in a lot of different ways.
Speaker 3:The thing when it comes to like, for example, like the children getting diagnosed, so with that, that's a great example of trauma because first of all, it is heartbreaking. It is not what you were expecting. And now also what happens is you kind of go through this grieving process what is my child's life going to look like now? How is this going to be? And as a parent, all you want to do is protect that tiny little human. And if there's now this diagnosis involved, it's how do I do that? And so, in a way, it's kind of like you're grieving this life you expected for not only your child but for yourself, and a grief is trauma and just you will constantly remember that day. You will always remember that day that there was that diagnosis day, and so that stays with you.
Speaker 2:Oh, absolutely, it's funny. As many times as we've talked about this, I can tell I'm already going to learn more from this.
Speaker 3:So it's interesting.
Speaker 2:I don't think I've ever heard it put that simply that grief is trauma, and that's so true. I mean, in my personal experience I know like it kind of felt like hit after hit. But Emily and I talk about grief a lot in our episodes because it's such a big part of this journey and it comes and goes. And the other thing I guess I'm curious about in addition to grief that Emily talk of, emily and I talk about a lot, is guilt. Is guilt a common emotion or feeling that can occur during a traumatic experience or afterwards?
Speaker 3:Oh, absolutely. So. I mean an example too. It's like a survivor's guilt. So veterans who come back from war, they go through that guilt of how did I survive and the rest of my team didn't? Or if there was, I mean for another intense one, it could be like if there was a shooting, how did I survive and then this other person didn't, and then. But then when it goes back to kids and the diagnosis it's did I cause this? Is this like, did I, is there something that I could have done? So now it's this feeling of guilt of, well, what could I have done better? How could I have been a better parents? And so guilt is absolutely going to come in in any type of traumatic event or like a car crash. It's like, oh my gosh, did I cause this car crash?
Speaker 2:Right, no, that's so true. Are there common I don't know if you'd use the word symptoms or reactions to trauma that are more common that you'll see in women versus men?
Speaker 3:So for women, I've noticed a lot of. It can be that I need to get this figured out, I need to solve it, I need to make something happen. Men are like that too, but I feel like not to stereotype or anything like that, but I feel for a lot of times men hold it in because they don't want like no one really likes to accept that something traumatic has happened to them, and so a lot of times men can have more anger. That I've seen. That makes sense. Yeah, I can see men have more anger because they hold it in, because they're the protectors. I can't show my trauma, I can't show my hurts. Women are more go-getting. How do I solve this? I need to fix this. Let's like what do we need to do now?
Speaker 2:That makes sense. I remember with Andy like being very confused how it felt like after we got home, like he was like okay, things are good, she's better, she's healed, she lived. You know the surgery was technically successful. Yes, that was a terrible month, but it's behind us and I had a hard time understanding how he seemed to want to just move forward, whereas I was like you know, is she really okay or is you know, I mean, she's up crying at night every night, like is she still really scared every night? Like I just I kept almost looking for more problems and I had such a hard time believing that everything was no longer an emergency, if that makes sense.
Speaker 2:And I think that's when I started like you kind of introduced me to the idea of trauma brain and it's almost I look at it as you know you hear the expression like rose colored glasses when you're in love. I look at it as I don't know what color you would put with trauma. But it's almost like this lens exists that you see everything through and everything you're experiencing. If it's not dealt with Before it gets processed, it crosses through that trauma filter and what I found myself doing so much and I really don't think I could have broken the habit without you, which was, I feel like my traumatic experiences with Emory made me doubt myself so much, like I had no belief in my abilities to be a good parent anymore.
Speaker 2:Because look what I had caused to my child. You know, going back to that guilt and look what I had caused to my child and look what I could not prevent and look at the things that I had to put her through. And so everything that happened every day, all day, even when she would be crying and upset in the car seat, I would be on the verge of a panic attack because I would be thinking she's losing her mind because I'm not holding her. And that's what she went through in the hospital. So now she's probably feeling abandoned again, kind of jumping off the cliff. But what are some ways that trauma brain that maybe some people like that you could give some more examples of that might be indicators that you are dealing with the after effects of trauma and maybe still have some more processing to do?
Speaker 3:Well, I think, when we talk about trauma, something that I always like to talk about with my clients is to recognize what are your triggers. Because if you don't have that self-awareness in yourself, you're not gonna know what you need, you're not gonna know what's happening. And if you see this pattern and if you see this emotional response, then maybe that's when we need to ask ourselves okay, well, where is this coming from? What is stemming this? And being able to look at it that way? So if you are having this intense response of crying, okay, well, why? Like, where is this coming from?
Speaker 3:So that self-exploration is so important when it comes to trauma and that's the one thing I will always dive deep in with clients first is let's recognize it. Where is it coming from? What's happening? And so, yeah, like the crying, the trigger, even something as small as a smell, that can other be another trigger. Or like when it comes to, like I said earlier, when it comes to like the diagnosis day, or if I have clients where there's been infidelity seasons can be a trigger Anniversaries even though there's great anniversaries, there's also heartbreaking anniversaries that can be a trigger. So, just being able to recognize your body's response and where's that coming from now and being okay with it. I think it's just the main thing is giving yourself permission to recognize what's happening, because if not, you're gonna be pushing it away.
Speaker 2:And what happens when you keep pushing it away? It's gonna come out.
Speaker 3:eventually it's gonna come out eventually it's gonna get bigger than what it needs to be and it's gonna just get more and more, because sooner or later we implode. We can like, we're human, we can only take so much, and so, regardless if it's anger or if it's crying, if it's breakdowns, those are all different ways that if we don't recognize it it's gonna happen.
Speaker 2:Right. And I would say too that when it's not dealt with, trauma is very good at disrupting all of your relationships, even if you don't realize that they are going on. Because I would say trauma was impacting like even my relationship with our son, cole, at the time, because I was so triggered. I was triggered so easily, I had so many triggers after our hospitalization and so I was overreactive to so many things that Cole was you know what. He was four and a half years old and I was on him about things that there was.
Speaker 2:Looking back, I mean I still feel really bad about it but working on grace, I'm a little more forgiving. But I mean I remember I just I was on him so hard and I almost kind of pushed him away a little bit for a while because I was so protective of Emory, to a fault really, because I wasn't seeing things very clearly and I wasn't understanding that I was being triggered, that it influenced those relationships. I mean I remember even with my mom and my sister who, like I, trusted my children's lives with completely, but after that I mean I just I mean I was probably pretty obnoxious to be around, honestly, or like I was so hyper protective or so controlling, because I was desperate to prevent anything negative happening. That then you know you would accidentally push people away.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and it's not on purpose, it's not to be malicious, but it's a ripple effect and it's a way to kind of protect ourselves. And it's like this. It's this way to. It's like the fight or flight response. It's a way to try to keep everything safe and keep everything, to kind of have that control. And yeah, even though we don't mean for it, but it can happen, like with anger for example, like if we're holding on to this trauma and if we're not giving ourselves that time to process, it's very easy for us to lash out, it's very easy for us to yell or to get more, to be a little more hypersensitive in those ways, right.
Speaker 2:For sure. So, thinking in terms of practicality, so for somebody, when you're feeling that way, when you talk about you know the importance of processing those emotions can you break that down and make that even more simple? Like, what does that actually mean to make time to process those? I know a lot of us in this situation. As a parent or caregiver, we tend to tell ourselves that story over and over, that we don't have time for anything for ourselves, we're so focused on our children or everybody else's needs. But I know personally how dangerous that can be and, like you said, it's not on purpose. But denial is never going to end in a good place. So what are? What is a simple way to actually you know what is processing? What does that actually look like?
Speaker 3:Okay. So I mean it's different for everyone. One way I love to have just anyone process journal. So I mean it sounds very simple, but it's just like oh, what is like? What is journaling? But it's just being able to just get whatever's in our head on the paper so we, and we get. It gives ourselves a chance to just turn inward what's happening inside of us. How are we feeling? Is this making us mad? Is this making us sad? Are we upset about something? So journaling is a great way for you to just have that first step of just being able to get more in touch with what is going on inside of us.
Speaker 3:Something else I'll have people do, and I and I heard about this exercise during a training. I'm like, oh, that's a little unorthodox, but I mean it makes a lot of sense when it comes to trauma. A lot of times, especially if it's a more recent trauma, it will consume our brain and we are constantly thinking of it. We are constantly worrying, we are constantly fearful. We want control, regardless of what it is. It is just this overwhelming obsession we can get.
Speaker 3:So something that I've had a lot of my clients do it's. I call it scheduling time, and so what you do, then, is you allow yourself, like you set a time, so if it's like, okay, at 4.30, I'm going to think about this, I'm going to let myself feel, I'm going to let myself explore what's happening inside of me. And what that does is it allows your brain it kind of manipulates your brain a little bit to say, okay, nope, I'm not going to think about this in the car on the way to school to pick up the kids, I'm not going to think about this when I'm in the shower, because we, our brain, just goes straight to it Instead. I have a designated time, and so you set a timer 10, 15 minutes and then you just let yourself do what you have to do Journal, meditate, think about the events Even though I know that might be really challenging for people, just giving yourself that time to fully let yourself remember or how did it make you feel like what's going on with you now?
Speaker 3:But then, once that time, it's a really good cry session. Oh, crying honestly, like is the best thing that anyone can do yes, a great cry session. And then it's just once that timer goes off. All right, I'm going to put this down and I'm going to keep moving through with my day, because you never want that trauma, even though it's so much easier said than done. You don't want to feel like it is now in control of you, which is unfortunately what happens to a lot of people if we don't let ourselves accept what happens Exactly.
Speaker 2:I remember that feeling of being all consumed by it.
Speaker 2:Even when I would be telling myself like there's no reason to be thinking about this, I would have the best intentions of working, and I mean it really impacted my work. Oh my gosh, it was so hard to work, to focus on anything, and I kind of went through this phase where I was like none of this stuff even matters, like why are we so worried about this at work and you know this doesn't have anything to do with life or death and I kind of minimized everything else that was going on in life. I really did like the scheduling. I remember I did that for a time and I will say this it takes practice, like I probably, you know, to start with, I probably spent a lot of that time that was not scheduled, telling myself this is not the time to think about it, this is not the time to think about it. And you know, would try to force myself. You know, okay, write an email or, you know, finish this spreadsheet or submit this invoice, work, like I would try to make myself pick a task to do to fill that time.
Speaker 2:I'm curious, chelsea, why? So when I hear like the journaling did help me a lot and I do still do it I don't do it every day, but I probably do it at least a few times a week. And I'm curious because I know that it helps. But why does it make a difference to get our thoughts from inside our head out of like whether you're speaking them to somebody or you're putting them on paper? Why is that different?
Speaker 3:Because you're not holding it on just for yourself. I say like our brains constantly has so many thoughts I mean even just with our day to day lives like what do I have to do today? What are what's on my to-do list? I got to go to the store, I got to do this, so that right.
Speaker 1:There is already a lot going on in our head.
Speaker 3:But when you have trauma on top of it, then it's, it adds so much more. And so I always say like our brains are so big, I get it Like there's just so much happening there, and so it just gives you that space to just let whatever in your head and out Like it, lets it just go on to pick it, gives it a structure, it gives it, it just kind of puts it in order instead of just allowing everything to be so jumbled.
Speaker 2:That makes sense, yeah, cause it can feel like I don't know. I kind of remember that feeling of and I still have it on occasion, but it's almost. I feel like you're, like you're in the center of a storm and everything is flying around you and you can kind of like you're seeing it, you're being hit by it, but you can't grab anything, you can't focus on one thing because it's all swirling, but you're feeling every single thing that's happening around you and it's so overwhelming.
Speaker 3:One of my favorite like representations, like pictures of either journaling or like even therapy, for instance, so that I saw it was like a picture and it was like a therapist sitting and like a client sitting on a chair, or it was like someone is in front of a piece of paper and so like, imagine, like little, like mind bubbles and there is like pink, red, green, blue lines all scattered everywhere, and then and then like for a therapist, or like for a friend to process, to like to back and forth or for like to journal, it's like it's allowing the like the streams to all get pulled individually and to give it order, if that makes sense?
Speaker 2:Yeah, it does.
Speaker 2:So I have talked to our guests before a little bit about the fact that I also did some EMDR training to help process my trauma, which was great to do in conjunction with you and I'm curious.
Speaker 2:So one of the things that we talked about when I first started those sessions was like just the literal process of what happens in our brains when we experience a trauma. And I think this ties back to maybe the filing cabinet that you've talked to me about, where, when we experience a trauma, she told me it's kind of like so the experience comes into your brain and Like the first step is going through that fight, flight or freeze part of your brain or whatever. And if it's a trauma it kind of gets stuck there, whereas you know when it's not traumatic, then we are able to file that away in like the right cabinet right in our brain. Like we organize it, it goes where it's supposed to. We can pull on it when we need it, we know where it is, whereas to me it feels like trauma is like all the paperwork gets like thrown into the air with a fan blowing Yep.
Speaker 3:Yep, absolutely yeah. So it's just like thinking of like our memories are stored. Our brain is like that filing cabinet drawer and so it pushes all of these things away and it holds these memories in. But when we've experienced pain, trauma, fear, abuse, abandonment, these bigger, like these really negatively impactful events in our life, our brain then stores it. So it's not like we're going through every day like in this chaos and or like everything is on fire. Instead, it's like, okay, I can make it through the day and be okay, but if something even remotely now happens, so kind of like those triggers I mentioned earlier, whether it be like a smell, a sound, an anniversary or if there was something that happened, that was relatively the same.
Speaker 3:So if, like, someone is like on their phone after an infidelity, or if they've been, if they've been cheated on before, someone is maybe on their phone, it's not like. You know it's not the same, you know it's different. But our amygdala in our brain it's also called the lizard brain or the reptilian brain it's one of the smallest pieces in our brain but it holds so much power. So that then gets triggered and now our brain is reacting out of from the amygdala and now it's like oh my gosh SOS, protect, protect, protect. We are in this fight or fight.
Speaker 2:Response now Okay, that makes a lot of sense and it's not a fun feeling. No, not at all. What are some physical experiences somebody could be having? Who is dealing with trauma, or I would say even maybe unprocessed trauma, because you know just from experience, when you're especially when you're newer to diagnosis or the medical journey, it just feels normal to have everything be chaotic, because a lot of times dealing with the medical system, things are chaotic, to be honest. Or a lot of different treatments, a lot of medications, insurance. So you know, everything being feeling chaotic isn't necessarily always, it's not always the best differentiator. So I'm curious what are some physical signs that somebody could listen to and maybe and maybe just pay more attention to as a possible clue that they've got some trauma going on?
Speaker 3:So yeah, the physical manifestations of trauma, I mean it can look different for everyone, but just feeling like that intense, feeling like that intensity, Feeling anxious, feeling emotionally flooded, even something as like sweaty palms or in like elevated heart rates. So I mean even just those things right there, like your body is having a physical reaction to something, Right, and that's where it's being able to say, okay, well, why am I being triggered now? What just happened? So I mean it can look anything for anybody. I know for me, like if I get triggered by something, like my heart feels like it's a hummingbird and it just goes crazy, and then I start sweating and my brain starts spiraling and I'm like what just happened?
Speaker 3:Like everything has felt fine before, but yeah, so just paying attention to your body, because your body is going to tell you what's wrong.
Speaker 2:Is that? So, being honest here, I have not read the whole book. I'm halfway. I've read half of the book, but you told me about this book and I apologize, I'll have to put it in the show notes too. It's by, but I think it's called the body keeps the score Right, and that was a book that you said you really recommend to help understand what's going on with yourself with trauma, and one of the more unique experiences that I had with trauma last year and you you talked about touched on this briefly earlier about how, like, the anniversaries can be a trigger for you.
Speaker 2:So last year in July was the one year anniversary since Emory surgery and it was also the one year anniversary since my no two year anniversary sorry, since my dad had passed away and but things were technically, for the most part, were really pretty good in our lives, like, yes, I had some other things I was dealing with, but that's just life is how I looked at it. But I remember, as it started getting closer to July, I remember talking to you and just saying like I just don't feel right, like I don't understand, like I felt like I was pretty good, but just I almost felt like this impending sense of dread was kind of like starting to creep up on me and I could not figure out a reason why. And I remember I think you just asked me a few more questions and you're like your body remembers. You may not be thinking about it, but you, you physically remember that what you went through this time of year and that's it's. It's triggering you and just opening myself up to that realization and understanding, or somewhat understanding, what was going on under the surface, honestly was the missing piece I needed to help me move through it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and one of the greatest gifts of whether you're working with a professional like Chelsea or you're taking some of those steps that you talked about, you know taking time to journal or talk to a friend, or you know scheduling time to to really dive into it and let yourself feel those emotions. I think any chance you have to have a little bit more understanding of what's going on inside of you can help us have a little bit more sense of control over ourselves, because that floundering feeling of I can't control my thoughts, it's just like not being able to control. Yeah, it's just like not being able to control what's going on with your child, and no wonder we spiral.
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely, yeah, absolutely. And so it's just again, it's just being able to just recognize what's happening in that and even something like a, like a date, a smell, a season, that all floods back into us and it goes right back into that filing cabinet drawer that we were talking about, right? And so we remember, our body remembers, and, even though as much as we would like to wish it didn't, it's going to. And so that's why it's so important to give yourself that space to be able to think and to feel and to process what you've been through, because if not, then you are just going to be like what is happening, and then you're never going to feel that validation or you're not going to feel just that. Oh, I'm not crazy, like I'm allowed to feel this way.
Speaker 2:Right, exactly. What does life look like on the other side of processing trauma?
Speaker 3:Freeing, honestly, yeah, I mean, I think on it very freeing just being able to give your sense that I don't need to allow this to control me anymore, I don't need to allow the event to control me, I don't need to be a victim of my trauma, I don't need to be like. It gives you that sense to say you can do what you want. I don't need that sense to say you can do whatever you need to now Like and that is not your identifier and unfortunately, a lot of times we can like. It can look like that for people, but you are way more than your trauma. You are so much more than that and that's only a piece of you. And so, yeah, I think being able to just process, to feel, to give yourself that permission, it can be very freeing and it's like you're no longer a prisoner to it.
Speaker 2:Right. I think that's really beautiful and, honestly, as you were saying that it it made me think about the fact that by working through my trauma and it's a continued process it doesn't mean that you get to the place that you're okay with what happened Absolutely no, and that's not what I want. To make sure that nobody thinks that we're saying that, like processing trauma and getting to the other side of it means that it no longer is upsetting to you or frustrating or a terrible event. But I think one of the things that I know that you had to pound into me because it took a long time for me to actually really receive the message was that you kept telling me all things come to an end and trauma had me living like the event was still happening, even though I was several months out from what had gone on with Emory. I could literally, at the drop of a hat, instantly feel like I was back in that room. Absolutely, and you were the one that helped me understand.
Speaker 2:I can actually close the book on that traumatic event, I can put it on the shelf and I can get to a healthy place that I can go back and I can pull that book out now and I can flip through the pages when I need to, but I don't have to live inside of that book anymore. My life is more than that and also too, I think it's a lot of times I think, as parents and probably any parent or caregiver honestly, but especially in this journey with our children going through these unimaginable medical challenges I know that sometimes we are far more motivated to do things if we feel like it will help our children as opposed to just doing it for the sake of helping ourselves. And I think that processing my trauma and realizing you helping me realize that I am more than my traumatic event, my life is so much more than what happened in that trauma, is also really important to make sure that I don't raise Emory to think that her life was only about that trauma or that that was a defining point in her life. Is it impactful? Of course, absolutely, but I certainly don't want to raise her to think that she has to stay stuck in any traumas, because children do. They absolutely experience trauma.
Speaker 2:You know Emory still struggles with sleep and I really do firmly believe a lot of it has to do with how many horrible things happened at nighttime for her both surgeries, but, like you said, there is more to our lives than that, and I think choosing to work on ourselves is actually a really brave thing to do, because it is hard it is. It can be extremely painful up front, but the reward like you said, that freeing feeling oh my gosh, it's just it's. It is absolutely worth the work.
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely Like it makes you. It makes you not only a better individual, but it makes you a better partner. It makes you a better child, like for like with in your family, a better brother, a better sister, a better parent. Because what happens is there's those generational patterns and if you don't allow yourself to heal from what you've been through, you're only going to bring that on to the next generation and your kids are going to feel it and then they're going to take that, and so that brings into a lot like attachments and attachment injuries. But but it's just a way for you to say, like you know what, I'm not going to allow my kids to take this on.
Speaker 2:That's powerful, because nobody listening to this wants to add anymore onto their children's plates. And it's not and while it's not intentional, you're right those generational patterns, they are very, very real and they're so easy to to fall into, and I think that's why that awareness piece that you were talking about is like that's, that's really. Probably. Is that really where you can start with this? Maybe it's just choosing to intentionally focus on being aware of what's going on inside your thoughts and your feelings.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, that's the one thing I always say is, if you want to be able to heal your past and to be that better version of yourself, you got to do the self exploration, you got to have that personal insight, because if not, it's just like you're going in with, you're going in a dark room blinds.
Speaker 2:Right, yeah, and that's not fun for anybody and you definitely can't be that, you know you also can't. I think part of being an advocate that Emily and I talk about and while it comes with time, yes, but the confidence that you need to be an advocate, trauma can really get in the way of that If not dealt with. Like I said, I was so hard on myself after the trauma because I held on to guilt. I mean, I wrapped myself up in that and I took full blame and responsibility for everything that, truthfully, wasn't mine to hold on to. But when you helped me put that down and you know, it's like you created the space for me to step back and look at what happened and recognize, yes, this was terrible, what happened, this was terrifying. And yes, I could have lost her. We could have lost her after those emergency situations occurred, but the fact is that we did not lose her. And so to continue living in that oh my gosh, we almost lost her that's where I wasn't living life and I think so.
Speaker 2:Getting to the other side of trauma, that acceptance but being, you know, in a place that you can file it away, that's where that freedom comes from, so that way you can actually live your life, you can enjoy those moments when there are good moments, because, depending on your situation, you might have a lot of hard times in your day. There might be, you know, small traumas that happen every week, depending on what your situation is, but that doesn't mean that there aren't good things happening too. And if you can deal with your trauma, that means that you can actually be in the moment and really experience those things that you want to with your children and that way, your children get to experience you having good times and having those memories with you that I know we all want. I just trauma is so important to me to address and I know I thank you a lot, but I can't really thank you enough, chelsea. There are like a million more episodes that we can come up with to talk about. I think I'm going to put this out there to our listeners and I'll throw it on social media that if you have any questions about trauma that you would like us to dive into in the future, I'd love to find out what some of those are. And then, chelsea, hopefully we can have you on again in the future and go a little further into that.
Speaker 2:Just to recap. So a couple of the things that we talked about with trauma is that as a parent and caregiver, you absolutely experience trauma it is not just your child and you deserve and you need to recognize that you have gone through trauma. We talked about. You pointed out a couple of ways that you could start working on processing trauma, and that included journaling and then also scheduling time to focus on those thoughts. I'm curious so if somebody's like I am not a journaler, but let's say they're on their phone all the time, could somebody just pull up their notes and just do bullet points of their thoughts?
Speaker 3:Oh, absolutely Now. Am I client to that all the time, or it's just like obviously something affected. You write it down. That way you can look back and just kind of do a little more of that exploration when you feel like you can.
Speaker 2:You. Even that reminds me. I did it a couple of times. I remember you told me you suggested to me to literally just do like a recording, an audio recording of myself, and just talk to myself. No, somebody wasn't. Nobody else was there with me, so I didn't have my guard up as far as feeling like how vulnerable am I willing to be in front of somebody, but it was amazing still getting it out loud. Obviously, all those thoughts couldn't just keep harassing me at once. I could only say one thing at a time, much to my ADHD's chagrin. Speaking it out loud and then going back and listening to those later was really powerful, oh yeah absolutely, because a lot of times, too, what happens is people will.
Speaker 3:People will listen to themselves rather than talking to themselves, meaning people will rather listen to the narrative that their brain is telling you. Listening to like that oh, you're not safe, this isn't okay or this is going to be a catastrophe. So a lot of people will listen to the lies that their brain tells them instead of talking themselves through it. So it's just a reminder that you know what you're safe, you're okay, you're not in that situation anymore, you've made it through, and so it's just a really powerful way to be able to just work through that intensity or that urgency that you're feeling in the moment. And then you have that tangible evidence of knowing like, oh my gosh, I am so much more powerful than I give myself credit for I was able to get myself through this.
Speaker 2:I love that. Okay, I think we should end on that note because that's very powerful and I definitely want to encourage people out there. It may feel really hokey, it may feel really silly. Very cheap, don't worry about it. Yes, absolutely, but I mean, give it a try. What's the worst that's going to happen? You're going to feel silly about it and never do it again. That's fine. Or you might try it and be like wow, that was really powerful and moving and something I'm going to make a part of my routine, yeah absolutely.
Speaker 3:And the one thing I will also say and I tell my clients, my friends, my family, whoever it is never minimize your trauma, because a lot of times what can happen is people will say, oh well, I didn't go to war, or I didn't see someone pass in front of me, I didn't this or this or this. So people will look at other people's experiences and say, well, this didn't happen to me, so they minimize or they invalidate what they went through. And so I always tell people never minimize that Other experiences are your experiences and they still affected you. So that can be kind of just this validating feeling of, no, you didn't go through that, but what you went through is still traumatic for you.
Speaker 2:Right, okay, that right there is going to be the title of this episode Never Minimize your Traumas, because that is so true that we do that. I also think that that's part of the reason that sometimes we hold back from sharing what we're feeling, what we're thinking, because there's almost a shame to. I shouldn't even be like. Why am I letting this feel traumatizing to me when somebody else has gone through something worse? So then you just continue that inner dialogue that takes you down a really negative path.
Speaker 3:Right, you just push it down, you don't give yourself that space to process or to accept what happened, and then it's just okay. Well, no, I shouldn't feel this way, because I didn't go through X, y and Z.
Speaker 2:That was. I'm so glad that you said that, Chelsea. Thank you, okay. Well, this has been an awesome conversation. I could talk to you about this for many more hours, but I think that that's probably enough for day one. Definitely look forward to having you on in the future if you would come back for us, please, absolutely, and just. Thank you so much and anybody out there if you're listening.
Speaker 2:Like I said, if you have any questions, please, please, please, please, feel free to send messages to us and once again I know we've said this in the past if it's at all possible for you, if you're on defense, please consider seeking out a professional therapist. It doesn't mean that something is wrong with you. It just means that there's somebody out there who is trained to help you process what's going through your brain. Because we don't have the same training, I am not able to look at things like Chelsea and thank God for you, because my brain is a little too creative in how it processes things sometimes. And having that outside influence who can be a safe place for you, can just make the biggest difference, not only for you, but your family and your child, that you are giving it all to give them the best life possible. So with that, thank you everyone. We're thinking about you. You hope you all are well and we will see you next week.
Speaker 1:You are capable, you are equipped and you are not alone. Together, we can do hard things for our children. If this episode connected with you and you want to hear more, be sure to hit the subscribe button. We would also love to learn about your personal journey and how we can support you. Reach out to us at contact at charlottehopefoundationorg. And, last but not least, if you know of someone who could benefit from this podcast, please share. We hope it bears.