The First Step is “Beelieving” – An introduction to Dynamic Movement Intervention (DMI)

On today’s episode, Ashlyn takes the reins while Emily navigates 12 big appointments for Charlotte crammed into 4 days. While Emily is greatly missed, this episode was so much fun to record with our 3 guests, DMI Experts & owners of Beelievability: Allie Watkins, OD OTR and Maggie Pisano, PT, DPT, along with their trusty therapy assistant, yellow lab Thistle.

The dynamic between Allie & Maggie is full of so much positive energy and passion, you can’t help but instantly be drawn to them and love their hearts for children with medical complexities.

The main goal is to introduce you to the groundbreaking therapy technique, Dynamic Movement Intervention (DMI). DMI is disrupting outdated views on therapy and the belief system that children will only achieve as much as their diagnosis says is possible.

Charlotte’s Hope Foundation and BeelievAbility share the belief that it should be up to the child to tell us what they can do and not let others such as geneticists, doctors, even other families navigating the same diagnosis, place limitations on them. DMI is all about embracing that thought process and supporting each child while challenging them to reach their highest potential. As Allie and Maggie say, “The first step is Beelieving.”

Allie & Maggie go on to explain the history of DMI and the core principles that make it so different from traditional occupational and physical therapy. They describe what an intensive session entails and why they often lead to many breakthroughs at a faster pace than traditional therapy. You will hear the helpful ways they guide parents to accept and embrace appropriate goals that are the best thing for their child at that time and how to celebrate every small win like they won the lottery.

With DMI being so new to the therapy field, many families travel across state lines seeking Allie and Maggie’s expertise. You can also view the resources below to learn how to find a certified DMI practitioner in your state. While DMI intensives are not yet covered by insurance, there are opportunities for grants that can be found by searching the web.

If you haven’t hit play yet, don’t wait another second – you are going to love this episode and walk away feeling invigorated and full of hope for the future of complex medical care for our children! Please help us share this podcast with as many people as possible so we can spread the hope.

BeelievAbility is an outpatient pediatric clinic founded by co-owners, Allie (Occupational Therapist) and Maggie (Physical Therapist). We offer intensive therapy utilizing dynamic movement intervention (DMI) as a main treatment tool. Our mission is to greatly improve a child’s quality of life and empower families in a safe and caring environment. Our goal is to never give up on a child’s potential and to help guide them to reaching their greatest abilities. The first step is Beelieving.

Socials: @beelievability instagram/facebook/tik tok

website: www.beelievability.com

The foundation we are

Get your copy of She is Charlotte: A Mother’s Physical, Emotional, and Spiritual Journey with Her Child with Medical Complexities by Emily K Whiting on Amazon

To get more personal support, connect with us directly at: CharlottesHopeFoundation.org
Email: Contact@CharlottesHopeFoundation.org
Facebook: Charlotte's Hope Foundation
Instagram: CharlottesHopeFoundationInc

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:13

Whether you've just been blindsided by your child's diagnosis or you've been in the trenches of their complex medical needs for a while, empowered by hope, is here for you. Though we wish you didn't know this heartache, we're so glad you found us, so together we can walk this journey in hope.

Speaker 2: 0:36

Well, welcome to the empowered by hope podcast. This morning, or whatever time it is where you are listening, this is your host, ashlyn Thompson, and Emily, as some of you know, has been very busy preparing Charlotte for countless appointments all within one week. I think they have 12 appointments coming up in one week at the hospital and, yes, that is with 12 different specialists. So whenever you're listening to this, we always like to keep each other in our prayers and send lots of good vibes and no outchees for Charlotte and hopefully some very good oh gosh play specialist for Charlotte too, to keep her and her little brother Liam busy, so Emily can focus on what she needs to focus on. But today I'm the one who gets to have the most fun because I am at the most amazing place today. I am literally surrounded by the cutest decorations, with bumblebees, there are flowers, and I have the sweetest, most adorable lab laying at my feet, whose name is Thistle. And while I wish we could interview Thistle, we're really, really lucky to be interviewing her owner and best friend, I would say so I am here with Allie and Maggie from Believability, which is this incredible, incredible therapy program that these amazing women have created, and they literally are in the business of changing lives every single day and bringing hope to countless families.

Speaker 2: 2:06

When Emily and I learned about what these women do, we were just so blown away because it completely lines up with everything that we talk about with Charlotte Tope Foundation on the on our podcast, about the whole idea that if there's anything that we can ever teach any parent, any caregiver, it is just to rely on the fact. Let your child tell you who they are and what they can do. Do not let a geneticist, do not let a doctor, don't even let other families who have the same, you know, set of medical complexities or diagnosis tell you what your child will or will not do, because so many, all of our children really, they just need the runway and they just need people to believe in them and have hope so that way they can reach their full potential and achieve whatever the highest quality of life is possible for them. And I know that these women have seen plenty of countless examples of children defying the odds and I love that.

Speaker 1: 3:08

This little in making yourself so comfortable right here, like the like this in the lab. I just cuddled up next to the computer.

Speaker 2: 3:17

So just so everybody knows, this little is here on the podcast and we are listing her as an interview guest for sure today.

Speaker 3: 3:26

So with that, I'm going to toss it over to you to.

Speaker 2: 3:29

I'll let you decide who goes first. But, ali and Maggie, if you would do this the honor of just introducing yourselves, kind of give us a little bit of what your background is and be sure, something fun about yourselves, because I do like to remember that we all, even though you know we're part of something big and special, we all are our own individual selves too. So maybe it's a favorite food, a favorite vacation, pastime, whatever that is besides hanging with this little here. Just give us some background and then maybe end with how you two came together.

Speaker 3: 3:58

Perfect, I'm Ali and I'm an occupational therapist, and fun fact about me is I really love animals and so lately I've been seeing a hummingbird by like coming up towards me for the last two months, so I don't know what the significance of that is, but I just really like animals and being out in nature. That's how I get my energy back.

Speaker 2: 4:21

So, yeah, that's a little bit fun fact about me, I think hummingbirds visiting you consistently, that's that's supposed to be a loved one, I think so.

Speaker 3: 4:30

I think so.

Speaker 4: 4:31

I think someone someone's showing their presence. Totally and like with you, I'm treating in this room and I'll have one come up to the window right here oh my goodness.

Speaker 1: 4:39

Two days ago and every day.

Speaker 3: 4:41

I'm like there's a hummingbird and so I'm like, am I subconscious seeing this like?

Speaker 2: 4:45

no loved one is coming to me. I love that your angels are bringing good vibes. That's right, that's beautiful.

Speaker 4: 4:51

Thank you. What about you, maggie? So I'm Maggie, I am the PT side of things, so physical therapist and kind of. It'll tie back to how Ali and I connected and met. But a fun fact about me is that I live on a hobby farm. So with my husband and my three little kids, I love anything outside so a lot of our time is spent gardening, working on the farm. We have a ton of farm animals so I think Ali and I connected over that. We met through a patient but then connected because I think our souls are just very similar in things we love and what fills our cups.

Speaker 4: 5:24

But that was the animal side of things. So I'm right there with Ali and that is a fun fact just being outside, and we both love nature and so I think for me grounding myself outside and in nature, and that was kind of how believability came, like the name behind it and all that- yes, I love that.

Speaker 2: 5:39

You can definitely tell that the energy between you two is very strong and very connected and all these great ways like you definitely seem like you could be sisters.

Speaker 3: 5:48

Oh, I love that, I love that, I love that, I love that. How old are your?

Speaker 4: 5:51

kids. So I have a five year old, a three year old and a one year old.

Speaker 2: 5:55

Oh, god bless you.

Speaker 4: 5:57

I feel like.

Speaker 2: 5:57

I'm trying to keep up with my six year old and two year old. That's awesome. Now, as far as how you two actually did meet, you said it was through a patient. That's really cool.

Speaker 3: 6:07

Yeah, we had a little patient in Maggie who were doing first steps.

Speaker 3: 6:11

I was coming in shadowing and learning more about this patient and we just started doing therapy with him and we really connected. Our minds were just going back and forth on let's do you do this, I'll do that. I'm like OT in the PT side of it. I'm like man. We really work well together. And then our patients mom was like hey, have you heard about DMI? We're like nope. And she's like you want to take the class? And we're like and then we end up taking the class in her basement. And we were like okay, this is a lot, it makes more sense, it's pretty much physics for the human body.

Speaker 3: 6:50

Okay, and we started practicing with him and our results were so much faster than what we were doing for six months of working on rolling and then, all of a sudden, he was making more progress with rolling, doing the skills.

Speaker 4: 7:02

Utilizing these new tools Totally. But it was like that patient that brought us together, taught us what DMI was and then kind of started this, started this, oh my gosh. And it was the whole mentality behind believability, yes, which correlates so much with your guys' thoughts. But hope, believing in every child, just believing Totally, and that's so lost right now in healthcare. So that's why Ally and I wanted to kind of do our own thing and create a space that that's the whole premise of when you walk in the door.

Speaker 4: 7:30

We will believe in you, we will help you, we will do everything we can.

Speaker 2: 7:33

So oh my gosh, I love that. To me it's. I almost think that healthcare finds security in these set limitations, like by creating these expectations, these boundaries of what is achievable. I think that's what helps us feel like we're doing as much as we can. But there's this amazing thing that can happen when you take that glass ceiling off, just like for anybody, any circumstance, and you say you go as high as you're going to go.

Speaker 3: 8:03

Absolutely.

Speaker 2: 8:03

Yeah, no limitations, you push, you do what you can, what feels right to you, and having the other thing. I think that is so cool about this and here in a moment we'll dive into, because some of you might be saying what is DM?

Speaker 1: 8:16

I like it, I like it, I like it, so originally.

Speaker 2: 8:20

So we'll definitely dive into that here shortly, but I just think it's really special to to also connect for our main audience. It's the parents and caregivers of children with medical complexities, and a lot of the parents that we're talking to are what I would say newer to the diagnosis stage. Right, and that hurts zero to six months, maybe 12 months. And what I love about DMI is not only does it give so much more freedom for the child to flourish, but it seems like it's such a chance to reinvigorate and inject hope into the parent and caregiver. And that's what we have found and that's what Emily and I believe that when and there's so much research that shows, that shows that it's true.

Speaker 2: 9:01

I don't know if you've ever heard of Snyder's hope theory. Yes, ok, so that's kind of what got. That's where our name, where we ended up coming up with our name, is once we got turned on to that study and realizing that when a parent or a caregiver is actually able to maintain a steady level of hope, that those children literally do tend to go further in their journeys, reach a higher level of quality of life. And we always talk about quality of life as opposed to results, right?

Speaker 3: 9:33

Because everything is different.

Speaker 2: 9:35

But let's go back a step then, and what is DMI?

Speaker 4: 9:40

It's a good question.

Speaker 2: 9:42

What's it?

Speaker 4: 9:42

stand for what's the acronym, dynamic Movement Intervention. So essentially, dmi or Dynamic Movement Intervention is a technique or treatment tool that OTs and PTs can get trained in. So it is a relatively newer treatment tool to the scene with therapy, I think, 2020.

Speaker 3: 10:00

Yeah, so oh, wow yeah it is new, like I'm used to new being like 15 years old.

Speaker 2: 10:05

No this is like baby.

Speaker 3: 10:07

Yeah, it's not off the breast, yeah.

Speaker 4: 10:10

And so it's this treatment tool that you can get specialized in, that therapists, then, can use these new set of exercises you're trained in to use when you're treating kiddos, and so the interesting thing about it is that you can utilize it in conjunction with, like your typical OTs or PTs. The difference for us is that typically now, it's pushed to be used in the intensive model.

Speaker 4: 10:33

So, that's what we specialize in is offering intensive. So what an intensive is is a one to three week treatment session like a group of sessions. So Kitto will come in for two sessions a day for that chunk of time, so it's a very intensive, as opposed to your once a week. You know, for every week or every other week. It's quite a bit of it. So we're utilizing this treatment tool during the sessions as our primary tool that we use, and using it in the intensive model. Okay, what?

Speaker 2: 11:02

are the like, I can make assumptions about why it's more beneficial to do this in an intensive setting or setup. Is there science that's behind that? That? You, that I'm assuming supports the reason for doing it like this?

Speaker 3: 11:16

Yeah, there's a lot of research articles If you look up the intensive therapy models or parents listening. If you go to Google Scholar you can look up intensive therapy model, you can look pediatrics and if you look up CP super positive in kids there's so much research and articles about how getting these blocks of intensives are so much more beneficial than your 45 minute outpatient. Not saying that don't go to those, but having this time you're building neuroplasticity and your motor planning and so that repetition is crucial for these kids especially with medical complexities.

Speaker 3: 11:53

So you're not just doing it 45 minutes a week and then taking a pause, like we're coming in twice a day for 45 minutes, doing the exercise at least three to five times and then you see the progress. Like our girl yesterday this is will be her third day today and she started cruising and took her first four steps cruising and two days prior to that she could not cruise oh my.

Speaker 1: 12:20

God. So, and we haven't worked on cruising.

Speaker 3: 12:23

So that's the crazy thing. It's just that repetition piece is like, oh, they're close, they're really close. Now let's add that repetition in practice and then you see the carryover and we're shocked Because we're like, well, we didn't work on that, but it's so cool, we worked on this, especially the bodies you know.

Speaker 4: 12:39

it's really neat to see that.

Speaker 3: 12:40

So the intensive model offers so much. Right, you know we work on certain exercises using DMI, but we the carryover is the best part of the intensive yeah.

Speaker 4: 12:50

And you can do an intensive model with any type of therapy, totally. But I think that the neat thing about DMI is it's challenging. It's a way we think about how we're treating kiddos and we are challenging them more than we typically would.

Speaker 4: 13:05

So it is as a therapist, it has made me look at how I treat totally different, totally so. So it's unlocking this new potential because I'm like, ok, this child doesn't do this, but we're going to try it this way and it's just a really neat way to challenge the brain and that's how you're getting at that neuroplasticity and this new growth and using these new motor pathways. And then we're doing it frequently. Yeah, so it's like we're getting just so so many cool results with it, so many.

Speaker 3: 13:31

Yeah, One thing that I will say is there. You know, I've heard like there is so much research also that kids learn faster through play and with DMI, some set backs up some maybe therapists don't understand or people watching on the outside is that we're doing? We keep on saying exercises. So we are doing exercises, but we are getting creative in how we add that to play. How do we?

Speaker 4: 13:53

make it fun, and so and so and purposeful to adding that element in.

Speaker 3: 13:57

So, yes, what's actually motivated like, what's actually motivational for the child Totally, because it is hard, like we are coming in here and we are doing literally like I was doing a Peloton workout this morning and I was like this is a DMI exercise for adult, you know like, but modified for an adult. But we have to come in and be creative so we can, you know, make that learning experience even better for the child. So I think you have to play around with the exercises and how you can make them meaningful to play.

Speaker 3: 14:25

Right but the first, I will say the first couple of days of intensive can be hard, because this child's never been pushed this way.

Speaker 2: 14:31

Right.

Speaker 3: 14:31

And so we always want our parents like hey, the first couple of days might be hard, but it's a learning process. We're setting boundaries with the child and the child is setting boundaries with us, and we have to learn each other real fast, real quick.

Speaker 2: 14:43

We only got one to three weeks with them, Right, and it's such, I mean, it's so intimate, especially to be in that intensive experience. I would think I mean you get to know each other really quickly and I would assume that that repetition and all that time together just speeds up the ability to connect and see what is maybe like is it a physical thing, or is it a person, like a personality thing or an emotional blockage that just needs help pushing through.

Speaker 4: 15:08

And that, I think, carries over to I think one of the big things you and I are pretty good about is telling the child and having that conversation, no matter their ability to understand, like cognitive, cognitive wise we tell them you're safe, we're right here, we got you, like the whole thing. So it's, it's hard. It's so neat, though, the second you see a child like trust you and then trust themselves and the pride they have for something they just did. It's just so cool.

Speaker 4: 15:32

It's, but it's creating that environment, because we're doing these really hard. They're doing these hard things that never done and we have to be right there with them to let them know they're, they can do it. We're right here, we've got you like, and then we have to walk with the parent on that.

Speaker 3: 15:44

So, like an example of this is a great example is our last kid that was here for a three week. You know, parents are like I don't know if he can see, like, and I go, hey, look up, we're at this table right here and it's like, look at that, look at better sign. And he looked up and they're like, oh, my goodness, did he find that? I'm like, yes, you, you know, like you just have to ask them and you believe in it. I'm like he can. From a therapist I know he can scan. So I was like, hey, look up at this. I know we didn't know he could even respond to verbal cues. I was like, hey, tuck your chin.

Speaker 4: 16:12

He tucks his chin and I bring you know they've been told by a doctor or somebody that they can't do this. Your child can't see, they can't, they won't do this, and Allie and I take those blinders off and we're like hey, we're gonna, let's just let them be them and give them. Right and parents will be like oh, I didn't know they could follow that cue. I was like have you ever asked them yes, no, because I was told they couldn't right exactly.

Speaker 2: 16:33

I also have noticed to not with my child per se, but I've seen in other examples and talked to other parents, to some of the settings where these, these specialists, these doctors are Testing the children on these skills or these commands.

Speaker 1: 16:47

I wouldn't want to do anything there either, exactly because it's intimidating, it's sterile, it doesn't feel comfortable. It doesn't feel safe.

Speaker 2: 16:54

Yeah, I don't know you that well, other than you poking and prodding on me. So I'm not going to feel like doing what you tell me to do, or the the doctor don't even put their hands on the child.

Speaker 4: 17:04

And they're like what the parent will come in and said well, they said they can't do this and I'm like they didn't even Get to know that child at all. How would I know that? A lot of times I don't you know that's.

Speaker 2: 17:14

There's a reason that's not their special.

Speaker 2: 17:16

Exactly, and that's why it takes a. It's such a 360 approach to helping your child really any human being honestly if you step back and look at it. But that's what I Think. That's one of the cool Experiences that you can have on this journey that, yes, it is incredibly difficult emotionally, mentally, having a child have any challenges. Nobody wants their child to hurt, struggle with anything, but when that's your reality, I think I have found it so beautiful to see how many Opportunities there are to connect with different people and how much crossover there really is and how it all comes together. It makes all of us better, not just our child that we're treating, but it's so cool actually to see the impact that our children are having on all the people around them. I often say and I know Emily says the same thing about Charlotte.

Speaker 2: 18:06

You know, emory is only two years old and I have never been impacted more or learned more from anybody than my daughter, exactly Emory after she had her first surgery. So she was seven weeks old when she had her first surgery, which was where they had to put her bladder back inside of her body and but they also did a double osteotomy so she was in traction. She had an external fixator in her legs were casted. She was like that for a month. She couldn't be picked up.

Speaker 2: 18:36

Well, so I'm like, okay, my and you know she had so many lines coming in all of her little, you know Sweet, chubby arms like she couldn't really hardly move her arms very much, so very, very little movement for an entire bun. And I remember being like so are you going to give me orders for PT at least, or what they're like? No, they're young, she's young enough, she'll be fine. I remember thinking like but isn't this when they're like learning the most, or like, isn't this when things are changing so rapidly? I'm having a hard time believing that her being stuck on her back for a month isn't going to affect her. And it totally did.

Speaker 2: 19:10

And I'm grateful that I went with my gut and I was like I just went to the nutrition and said I want an order for PT and At first we started out going to a physical therapy center and they were fantastic with her. But the whole I think this is the trauma aspect of things she had been through and I think a lot of people Don't realize the impact yet of trauma and so that definitely played a played a role until we changed therapy to come, actually, first steps. They started coming to our home and it was unbelievable. It was like they unlocked, it was like a key unlocked her and she went from literally it oh gosh that at when she was nine or ten months old, she still like no, it was older, she was still like if she lay on her back, she couldn't, she wasn't rolling and she could not be stationary she would just tell like she'd be happy in there, like this shoe there, like honestly she shouldn't be happy, just like.

Speaker 2: 20:04

Because like to her that's all she was gonna do and once they started working with her and then we worked with that therapist, she was really great about helping us get some equipment set up at home and then I was really like Very much wanted to learn what I could do with her, so we did that every day and she took off so fast. It was unbelievable. I was like how much longer would she have had to go before?

Speaker 1: 20:28

if we hadn't gotten Just some help to you know.

Speaker 2: 20:30

Look, I said it was like, it was like she was frozen totally and then she just took off. But what I want to kind of go back to from that story is, like I said, the trauma definitely, you know, I feel like had an impact in kind of locking her where she was. How much of part of that do you like? How much is that a part of stories for you all with these children?

Speaker 4: 20:52

I feel like every single one, every family, every, every child and I think with us is like we wanted to create.

Speaker 3: 20:58

Our biggest thing I mean I wanted to create is the energy that we bring. So you can see, the room is yellow and it's contrast and we're like we're not gonna be wearing scrubs Because I worked with the patient and my previous job and one she was one of our therapists worked at Riley and she would come to this job and she would wear Riley scrubs and that patient if she saw her, we had a hide from her because she would start Hysterically crying because of the medical trauma that she experienced. So we wanted this is already hard work for these kids to come through here. So we're like let's create the best energy to make them feel safe, to make them feel happy. All the kids come in here and they're just like, like they're looking around the parents.

Speaker 4: 21:39

I think it's the whole family because, like, the child obviously has gone through stuff, but I think it's also the parents, and the parents energy kind of can like has such a big impact on their child so by allowing everyone to be able to like Breathe and just kind of like have a different mindset to therapy and when they're here with us. Yes, I think it is why some of some the outcomes were able to get away.

Speaker 4: 22:04

Right, because we build that rapport and then we, we, just we are both very empathetic, like we pour our energy, our soul, everything what we do, our passion, and it carries over with the families. But I think that trauma is carried through everything and we didn't not want to make this connect to Anything they have in that mental world.

Speaker 3: 22:23

We asked like I guess anything, yeah, and I think another thing I like is that we incorporate. We want the parents to be here and there is so much research actually on having the parent there and sometimes it's hard because kids might not do as well Because mom or dad are there. But what we like is that when they are here, we're saying you can still do this, we can get through this. Like, give us will count to ten and we're going to be all done. Take a break, go to mom and dad, give a hug.

Speaker 3: 22:48

But now we're also empowering these parents to do this at home and learn how to push their child in a different way that they Didn't know that they could push their child in. So they're coming in. They're like, oh my gosh, I we've had some people that do contract with Maggie and they're, just like you know, I think, one of our one patients. She just started crying because she was jumping and running for the first time and we're sitting there. It was just beautiful because, you know, she felt so empowered and I was. I remember looking her at that moment.

Speaker 3: 23:21

I was working with another patient, I was just like how beautiful is that for her to be so proud of her child, but her child also be proud of herself. It's really, you know, it's the best, and so it's totally different than working in the medical profession. I think also that's why Maggie and I wanted to start something, because we were burning out in that field. You know, and so and that field there's a need for more therapist and absolutely.

Speaker 4: 23:45

I mean I remember the wait like out the wait time and that's what it was. Hard leaving first steps because I yeah, I loved doing that, but it's like we were very limited on how we could do things Right and I think Ali and I wanted to start our own thing because we wanted to do it our way our way oh. I'm like God that she did like.

Speaker 2: 24:03

I mean you guys are. To me it's obvious that you all have fallen, are following your calling. This is very purposeful for you, Totally yeah and you two right this whole yeah.

Speaker 3: 24:14

It's snoring or she's like making a nap.

Speaker 2: 24:17

before I start my day, there's such thing is coming back in the future life. I want to come back to the therapy dog.

Speaker 3: 24:22

Totally a thousand percent.

Speaker 2: 24:26

So questions. So you know we talk about how, unfortunately, there's a lot of Limitations that tend to be set or, you know, textbook expectations that are prescribed to families. How do you all work through or work with parents, caregivers, as far as you know, letting the child, you know, show you what they can do, but managing expectations, because I feel like that there's probably some balance to manage in that where it's you want to.

Speaker 2: 24:56

Believe your kid can do so much, but how do you, how do you talk to the parent, who's maybe really anxious and and is coming in with certain expectations?

Speaker 3: 25:06

That's one of our biggest. I think it's hard because it puts a lot of pressure on us as a therapist, because it's like almost like you guys can Make miracles happen or like my logic and I'm like no, and it's, it's, I think.

Speaker 4: 25:18

I think our best way is like we tried to have a Conversation with the parents, letting them know we, we won't do anything that's unsafe for your check, because they're like, oh, you're gonna do things they've never done before, that kind of thing.

Speaker 4: 25:28

So it's like we keep our medical hats on the entire time yes right we're thinking like clinicians but we are thinking outside of the box on what they have typically been told. So it's having that conversation and I think it's re grounding parents to find Hope and like see the little gains that you're making as a huge wins.

Speaker 4: 25:46

They see us get excited I think that's the biggest key is like they're like well, I want them sitting up and maybe we're focusing on rolling because we want them more independent on the floor, yeah, so it's like they see Ally and I get so excited over these little things and then they realize how important all these are.

Speaker 2: 26:01

Right.

Speaker 4: 26:01

So it takes away from like having this, like oh, I just want my child to walk, like that's typically what most parents it's a lot of you know right, and it's like they're not sitting yet. You know so we need to get there, you know so we can help work with them to refocus on what is most meaningful for that child at that time, right.

Speaker 3: 26:18

So we have to explain that like, hey, your child's going to get so much more out of right now, in this moment, if they can learn how to sit and then be able to play it with their brother and sisters, or at least sit there and be with their brothers and sisters, you know, and so and then on the first day we also do an eval and so when we're looking at the child, like we're assessing literally every aspect of their body, and so usually at the on the next day we come with a big paper and it was like this is what your child's leaning on, this is what they're compensating with. This is after getting a clear picture. You know this is going to be our goals and so we kind of give that. Have that conversation as well, and the zoom.

Speaker 4: 26:59

So a big thing of when you sign up for intensive with us. You're a new family, that hasn't? So we schedule a zoom call ahead of you coming in, because I think, a lot of families, if they've never done intensives before, they haven't done DMI it's. It gives them the opportunity to see allierize, face, talk with us, ask questions. But a big thing is we discuss goals.

Speaker 4: 27:18

So it kind of allows us to feel out the family, see what they're thought, you know. So I think that's an opportunity for us to understand how we're going to move into coming. We want to be on the same page as the parents. Yeah, that's the most helpful, as if you're all on the same page. But it's like finding that balance, because I don't ever want to take hope away from a family. I want to be realistic, but I also want them to see the beauty and what we're working on now and what the potential is and like so it's a very hard Harder kid is working.

Speaker 3: 27:46

A lot of our kids are nonverbal and you know they can't express. You know they can only express their crying if it's hard or and so like our one patient this week and I'm like, oh my goodness, they just did this, like this is insane, because sometimes we catch ourselves are like, oh my gosh, can't believe you did that, can't believe she did that. And I'm like wait the first step is believe me.

Speaker 4: 28:04

You know like I was laughing, like so Ali does, like all our social media, but she just posted a real and in my face at the annex we both are looking at you like what? Because it's like we're just like surprised and excited, right, I don't know. So it's letting families like learn to find the beauty in every moment of what we're working with, totally so our excitement, we don't hide it, and I think they get to then see, yeah, I don't know, they find an excitement in new steps.

Speaker 3: 28:31

Exactly, and our excitement is genuine. Yeah, we can't make that happen. Sometimes we work on a Tuesday and she were like whoa, whoa and then, we're like startling our patient.

Speaker 4: 28:40

I'm like I gotta pull it down. Too much to the table. We're so excited. Pull it back, that's beautiful.

Speaker 2: 28:50

I feel really energized. I'm not even seeing you guys right now I'm excited. It makes me think about so one of the things when I was going through trauma treatment after. So we almost lost Emory a couple of times and obviously not being able to pick her up for a month was really, really challenging. So I had some things to work through, but one of the things that I really value that I got from my therapist was we talked about creating. She's like there's these make-believe ladders and then there's real reality ladders.

Speaker 2: 29:22

And so she's like what I want you to do is literally draw a ladder with what wrong, how far apart wrong should really be. And then she's like and that means that there's smaller steps that are achievable. She's like so often we try to create a ladder that's only got three wrongs, but it still goes nine feet. She's like you're not. That's not a ladder you can climb. I love that. That's a great Every wrong on that ladder is just as important to being able to get to the top of the ladder. It's great.

Speaker 4: 29:49

It's a perfect explanation of what we're trying to do.

Speaker 2: 29:51

You want to use that?

Speaker 1: 29:51

one on yeah, yeah Draw the ladder.

Speaker 4: 29:53

Thank you, draw the ladder. Thank you, draw the ladder.

Speaker 2: 29:55

Thank you, but I think the exercise of like having me do it made me break down like Totally oh okay, this I did actually achieve. Okay, this was its own unique step, this was its own accomplishment and I love that. So, yeah, I mean I never have a problem celebrating every single thing that Emory does. I mean I my husband, still gets confused why I celebrate her fighting with her brother. Sometimes I'm like because this is normal behavior.

Speaker 3: 30:18

This is great. This is exactly what I'm saying. Age appropriate that's what we always say.

Speaker 4: 30:21

Yeah, I'm always like that's an age appropriate thing. Age appropriate guys, don't? That's a good behavior.

Speaker 3: 30:26

Yeah, that's a good thing that we always say that to.

Speaker 2: 30:28

Exactly, it's beautiful Like yeah.

Speaker 4: 30:31

No I won't.

Speaker 2: 30:32

So I want to take it back again, because this is how people that are used to listening to podcasts are used to my brain going back and forth many steps, but what is? What, would you say, are the key differences between DMI and then traditional PT and OT that people are used to being, you know, involved with?

Speaker 3: 30:51

I think the main one was what we? The first thing, I think what we said was how we pushed and worked with our kids. Because when we were working like an example that I gave earlier with rolling with our one patient that got us into DMI we weren't really pushing as much or doing it. And then for another thing is there's aspects of the physics side. So then we got to see, so with DMI we also like use gravity or take gravity away. So you see, friction Use, friction Use also, yeah, use different surfaces to help them achieve that. And then we move on to the when we, you know, bring a different surface in. So that's why we're always either floating kids or tossing around.

Speaker 2: 31:29

It is wild. I remember the first time I thought I was like that child is surfy, how is?

Speaker 1: 31:33

that? How is that? Because, like managing, that like totally. How much?

Speaker 2: 31:37

anxiety do you get when you're doing something Like, or is it like you're so caught, like you're so used to it now?

Speaker 4: 31:42

I don't, I don't get exact, like when I'm in it I think I'm so interested in watching the child's body and what I'm able to like. Yeah, to be so focused, yeah, so it's almost like you're hyper focused on the goal of what you're doing. That I don't think about. Yeah, like, and we have spotter, like I know we have a safe setup.

Speaker 1: 31:58

So I'm very confident in our setup so I can only focus on like the one side of it.

Speaker 3: 32:03

So I don't, I don't, I don't think so, and what we had to do for our training is we have box, we do a lot of box work when we have dexterity work. So we actually had to before we put a child on. There it was. We had to take a big square, put it on a like a diamond shape so it's just on an edge and float it in the air, so we practice.

Speaker 2: 32:21

And then like yeah, oh, I know, you all are very good at what you're doing, so I will have to make sure that I will put in the show notes the links to your social handles. Like, if you all have not seen DMI, you definitely need to watch, like check out some of their social videos. I mean, it is like watching magic, it is. It's so cool and, I think, going back.

Speaker 4: 32:41

That's why I think we found love with it. So it's a different compared to, like, typical.

Speaker 4: 32:45

OT or PT. It also gave us a whole new set at least for me of treatment tools for very medically complex kids. Very, yes, so kiddos who are working, who have no head, we're just working on head control. It's also the way you look at the body. We work from the top down with DMI. So you're learning to work on that head control in a whole new, different set of exercises. So these kiddos, that typical therapists, like even how I was before getting trained in DMI, kind of like what am I going to do with this? Totally Like right, like what am I where, where can I go? And you go through the few things you know and then you're stuck, yeah. So a lot of these, these kids get kind of plateau with typical treatment, right, and then adding in this new mentality and all these new exercises that DMI brings to the table no pun intended, it totally opens up all new things, all new things, yeah.

Speaker 3: 33:32

And then it's really interesting because you know, we, if we're working on head control, we might do a lot of the same exercises in three weeks and the parent would be like, oh my goodness, you know you're doing the same thing. I'm like this is what they need. And then by the end of it they're like, oh my goodness.

Speaker 4: 33:47

And then the next four to six weeks. They're like ah, look at the carryover from doing these right, the repetition of these same exercises, that's that's the neat part.

Speaker 3: 33:55

The better the head control. Then you can start working out the trunk and then lower and lower. So, like our one patient this week, we're finally, we're finally at the trunk. We're so excited Like this head control is amazing and now we're at the trunk and that that is a good big win.

Speaker 4: 34:09

You know what I mean. That's what we're talking about. Like that's our big one.

Speaker 3: 34:11

We're like, look, and so we had to remind mom like, look, we were at the head for two intensives and now we're at the trunk. How amazing is that?

Speaker 2: 34:20

You know, those are our big ones. I remember being very surprised while while we did not go through DMI, but I still feel like I learned a lot about like, like you said, like the impact of, like, the carryover from from doing that type of work, like I didn't realize that Emory gaining more head control and more balance is that would improve her eating, that it would improve her her speaking abilities, like things like that. I was just amazed. I was like I and that's what I think is so cool and I think something that is often missing, especially with children who are very complex, right is, everything is connected, everything.

Speaker 4: 34:56

We say that all the time. The neuroplasticity we're working with and the pathways, it's not just gross motor. So the carryover you get, you know, start talking more and I start all these things.

Speaker 1: 35:06

More expressive Totally.

Speaker 4: 35:07

Awareness.

Speaker 3: 35:08

Like it's just really no one kid started talking, or last intensive, he started saying his, he started mama dad and Nana and yeah, never talked, never, never talked Like during their sessions during our sessions. We're like did he just say what then? He was consistently saying it and purposely like looking and finding, and it was, or having a child, like point.

Speaker 4: 35:28

Did you guys have to, like, mop up this here? Well, I think the mom was so shocked.

Speaker 3: 35:32

I was like she's like did, I'm like he, he did, and Nana was like he did, and then the rest of the intensive.

Speaker 4: 35:38

He's like mama, mama, I'm like, see, but it just gets so emotional because it's like it just is so neat because we're focused on one thing, like our goal will be maybe sitting by themselves, but all the carryover you get, like you're saying it's all connected, all connected, and that's the beauty. I think too, allie and I, it's like you, we're focusing on one thing, but we, I think, our gifted in that seeing the child as a whole, yes, and like seeing all asks. For us, the biggest things are like making so much, like meaningful outcomes, totally, you know, and getting them to be living to their fullest potential, and like supporting them that way, and that's where it's been the best.

Speaker 2: 36:12

Yeah, gosh, okay, I could talk to you all so much longer because, like I am, just I am obsessed with this and like everything I'm hearing, I'm like I know everybody else who's got a child with any type of medical complexities is like you know fist pumping yes, they understand what my child needs they understand what we need is appearance and caregiver, so like see your child as a collective whole, not just the diagnosis, not just the, the singular function.

Speaker 2: 36:41

That's not functioning. Quote unquote typically like everything is connected and but there's still just just as many possibilities for them, and just throwing limitations out the window.

Speaker 3: 36:52

Totally.

Speaker 2: 36:52

Learning to redefine what a great life is.

Speaker 2: 36:55

I think that's also a huge part of this, and this is just marries with that so well, and I'm just like I want everybody to do it, so for our listeners, maybe who you know, if you are in central Indiana, please, please, please, please, look up believability and if you think that this could be a fit for you and your family I mean, I can't think of any more amazing people to get in with than Ali and Maggie here but if somebody doesn't have the fortunate, you know, positioning of living close to you all, totally, how do you recommend finding a DMI, Like, how do you know if it's somebody who, like you know I don't know if there's people out there who are saying they do like, do DMI, and maybe they are certain either certifications, what, what is out there that they should?

Speaker 4: 37:39

look for. I think the biggest thing is families don't know is there are different levels that you get trained in DMI. Okay, so there's level A, b, c and then it goes into intermediate A, b, c, pretty high up. So I think now that it's becoming more popular and we want as many therapists to get trained like we want, I would love all families to have access to DMI. But so you can look up on. I think it's DMItherapycom. Yes so to learn more about. That's the first place families should go because you can actually look up practitioners.

Speaker 4: 38:09

They list them by state, so and so. That means that they're certified to what they're. That's like confirming what they're certified to right.

Speaker 4: 38:18

So, and I think with regards to an intensive now, dmi has said, basically level C, which is what Allie and I are trained to, is what you should look for in your therapist if you're going to do an intensive, because that way they've had enough training to provide adequate number of exercises, that kind of thing. So that, I think, would be the first step, and also so for us. We have families that travel from out of state. So it's very, it's very common for families to travel to do this Right.

Speaker 2: 38:45

Okay, that's great to know as of right now, insurance with DMI. Is that still an obstacle?

Speaker 4: 38:52

Correct, correct, so we provide a super bill at the end, so families are welcome to submit it. It's, I think, the intensive model, is what. So we build just typical PTOT. Yeah, okay, so it is fully billed. It could be billable through insurance because we are providing that skilled therapy. It's, I think, the intensive model. Is what therapies can't get on board with. Yeah, Okay, they don't want to approve that much therapy, right, or you've already maxed out your therapy for the year, like right exactly. Okay.

Speaker 2: 39:20

So that sounds like a good mission for all of us listeners and Charlotte's Foundation to look into ways to help push past that ridiculous barrier. Right, it's insane. Oh, we get so mad.

Speaker 4: 39:32

I would love to use insurance. Any insurance you have, I'd love to take it.

Speaker 3: 39:34

So families are getting out of pocket for that. We love that, but we're not as a society.

Speaker 4: 39:39

We're not there yet. Here yeah. So, it's we've got goals.

Speaker 2: 39:42

We've got goals, baby. We've got some goals Team DMI.

Speaker 4: 39:46

That's right.

Speaker 3: 39:47

We try to give families like resources to for grants and stuff like that as well, that's amazing.

Speaker 2: 39:51

That's good to know that that's something else.

Speaker 4: 39:53

that's yeah, because it's a huge financial commitment because most families are traveling, so there's travel, hotel, they're taking time off work and then they're paying for the therapy.

Speaker 3: 40:01

And who knows, if they have other kids, they might be paying for caregivers.

Speaker 4: 40:04

Yeah, so we know that's why we don't take any of this lightly and we're so grateful for families believing in us. Totally Like so it's. It goes both ways.

Speaker 3: 40:14

Totally.

Speaker 4: 40:14

But we're we're trying to find as many resources to provide our families to help with that.

Speaker 3: 40:20

Because we would love to.

Speaker 4: 40:21

I would love for insurance to be accessible, especially a lot of these kids.

Speaker 3: 40:25

You know, just working in first steps, you both have worked in there and you see a lot of medically complex kids and you know families that just can't afford therapies like this and like those kids needed. So frustrating Too, but that would be a big mission of ours to figure out how to make it more accessible. And then a lot of our kids that have come to us, their therapists all the progress and they're going to go get trained and we love that because you know they we can give.

Speaker 3: 40:50

We give the families home exercise programs at the end of every intensive and so those therapists can help you know with that training if they get went and got level A trained or whatever and do the carryover. So it's awesome oh my gosh.

Speaker 2: 41:03

Okay, so I we will definitely be meeting again.

Speaker 4: 41:06

I would love that. It'll be amazing.

Speaker 2: 41:09

Just incredible. So let's end on I didn't want to end on the insurance note that we all know is a little bit better. So, just to close this out, I would love to hear from each of you what is one thing that you've gotten out of switching to the DMI path that you did Like. What's one great thing you've gotten from it that maybe you didn't expect?

Speaker 3: 41:30

That's a great question.

Speaker 4: 41:33

I think building a different level of a relationship with the families than I previously have as a therapy.

Speaker 3: 41:39

That's awesome.

Speaker 4: 41:40

So I think having almost having every family look me and Ally in the eye and say you've restored our hope, you get, you gave us something to be excited for, because you get lost, I think is apparent on these medical journeys. Yeah, and it's like they finally and we had the mom the other day say looked at us and she was like you guys just get it, you get this, you understand it. So it's nice coming to somebody that gets it and can be part of our journey a different way.

Speaker 3: 42:04

Totally, absolutely. I think that's one of the big ones, and I think another one that Maggie and I for sure is like we keep on saying we believe in the kids, we believe in these families, and and then our slogan is first step is believing, and sometimes we get stuck because we're just human and it's like wait, we need to also believe in ourselves.

Speaker 3: 42:23

The imposter syndrome is so huge for us and like, as we just started up and are growing and getting bigger, it's just like we. It's almost intimidating. We're not business people we're just therapists but, we're trying to be also learning to have and so we constantly have to remind ourselves to believe in ourselves, and I love that I'm doing it with Maggie, because we can like bounce off each other, because we it's emotional job, it's you know, and then this, right where you're sitting, is our grounding spot, and we go back at the end of every intensive and we put our picture up and it tells us like we can do hard things as well, as well as our kids.

Speaker 4: 42:57

That's so, that's that's so important, I think for both of us Because it's been a huge part of it. Huge, but yeah, way to start off.

Speaker 2: 43:11

You two are absolute pressings. You are such just incredible souls and I I know that I feel just reinvigorated and energized and it, just it gives me this. Honestly, there's a feeling of peace right now that, like knowing that there are people out there like you who are doing this, tells me like there's so many more opportunities for you know, for this to grow and for just the mindset that you all bring to treating our children is such a relief but also such a gift. So thank you for that. I can't wait to have you all on again and talk to you some more and learn how we can support this DMI movement. We will make sure that we share all the information and the show notes for this episode and if you're listening to this, even if you're child, you feel like your child is not a candidate for this. Which, how much time do we have?

Speaker 2: 44:05

folks We've got like two minutes so that's how we really do need to close this. How do you know if your child is a candidate for DMI, or is there anything that makes your child not a candidate?

Speaker 4: 44:14

I think, the biggest. It's a very physical aspect of it on us. So size is a big factor and so if your child is not non ambulatory, not walking independently yet or standing, we look at size because it is so physical, so there are limitations with weight and height, that's one of the biggest things we look at. We also are learning how to modify that and what our abilities are.

Speaker 3: 44:40

So I mean, I think that those things You're curious, just email us, reach out, reach out, email us because we have, we will work with the family to understand if they are appropriate, and then we can provide services.

Speaker 3: 44:49

We also do like primitive reflex work too. So we had a six year old just come in and so we did DMI with them and then he was able to draw a circle after his Eval. And he's never been able to do a circle, but doing primitive work with gross motor we've learned to get some outcomes. So that's another way.

Speaker 2: 45:06

I love that. Well, thank you for answering that. Look to the show notes for more information. Please, please share this episode because we would love for as many people as possible to become aware of DMI. It could open so many doors for so many families. So, maggie Ally Dessal thank you so much for giving us this time this morning. And, gosh, I just can't wait to see what more work you do as you all grow and all the families you all are going to impact.

Speaker 3: 45:31

Thank you, Thanks for having us. The first step is believing. Whoo, let's go. That was so much fun.

Speaker 1: 45:42

You are capable, you are equipped and you are not alone. Together, we can do hard things for our children. If this episode connected with you and you want to hear more, be sure to hit the subscribe button. We would also love to learn about your personal journey and how we can support you. Reach out to us at contact at charlottehopefoundationorg. And, last but not least, if you know of someone who could benefit from this podcast, please share.

Speaker 3: 46:13

Thank you.