Empowered by Hope
You want the best possible quality of life for your child regardless of diagnosis or prognosis. Raising a child with medical complexities is often lonely, scary and overwhelming. Join two parents of amazing children with rare medical complexities, Emily K. Whiting and Ashlyn Thompson, to get help and grow with them into empowered advocates for our kids. Here you’ll find a community of support, encouragement, education and resources, equipping you to navigate your child’s medical complexities with hope. To get more personal support, connect with us directly at www.ParentEmpowermentNetwork.org.
Empowered by Hope
Understanding Trauma in Pediatric Care: Insights from Sarah Curry on Fostering Resilience and Compassion
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Discover the transformative power of understanding trauma with the expertly insightful Sarah Curry, communication manager for Cincinnati's Ronald McDonald House and a certified trauma and resilience specialist. Sarah guides us through the complexities of trauma, particularly as it relates to caregiving for children with complex medical needs. Through her invaluable expertise, we explore how recognizing and comprehending trauma can shift our approach, allowing us to ask more compassionate questions like "what happened to you?" instead of "what's wrong with you?"
We delve into the science behind trauma, examining how it affects the brain and behavior. Sarah breaks down the physiological changes that occur during traumatic experiences and the importance of establishing safety and trust. By understanding these mechanisms, caregivers can better manage their own responses and support those they care for. Practical strategies and personal anecdotes highlight the necessity of trauma-informed care, ensuring that even in high-stress situations, we can foster resilience and a sense of control.
Empathy, support, and self-care emerge as crucial themes throughout our conversation. Sarah emphasizes the significance of maintaining boundaries and preventing burnout for caregivers, while also providing tools to help trauma survivors feel understood. Listen as we unravel the concept of the "window of tolerance," and share actionable advice to navigate trauma awareness and recovery. By being trauma-informed, we not only support those in need but also reinforce our own well-being and strength in this shared journey. Subscribe and share your story with us as we continue to support each other.
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Whether you've just been blindsided by your child's diagnosis or you've been in the trenches of their complex medical needs for a while. Empowered by Hope, is here for you, though we wish you didn't know this heartache.
Speaker 2:we're so glad you found us, so together we can walk this journey in hope. Welcome to the Empowered by Hope podcast brought to you by Charlotte's Hope Foundation. This is your co-host, Emily Whitingiting, here with Ashlyn Thompson, and we are just beyond excited and grateful that we have Ms Sarah Curry here with us today. What a gift and blessing it is to have her with us today. She comes to us from Cincinnati, Cincinnati, Ohio Ronald McDonald House, and she and I crossed paths a few months ago because I actually happened to stay there quite often with my daughter, Charlotte, for her care and find the Ronald McDonald House nonprofit mission just amazing. Absolutely. I could do a whole podcast In fact, we're going to do a whole podcast all about that recording later this afternoon.
Speaker 2:But for the purpose of today's conversation with Sarah, she is the communication manager for Cincinnati's Ronald McDonald House and she's also a certified trauma and resilience specialist, which sounds intense but also absolutely amazing. And when she told me a little bit about her understanding and training and trauma and how she uses that at the house and with staff, I just was blown away and thought immediately I want to learn about this and I know our listeners are going to want to learn about it too. So before I go too far, Ms Sarah, can you introduce yourself? Tell us a little bit about yourself.
Speaker 3:Yes, hello everyone, thank you for having me on here. I really appreciate the opportunity to share with you all. My name is Sarah. I live in Cincinnati. I have two teenagers that keep me busy, a 17-year-old daughter and a 15-year-old, almost 15-year-old, son, and they're both taller than me and faster than me. You know everything now. You just kind of see everything change as you get older and they get taller. So, um, they keep me busy and we love, you know, traveling, we love exploring and we love eating ice cream and donuts and going to places like that. So really I try to keep it light, because things that I do during the day are typically, you know, on the heavy side a lot of times.
Speaker 2:So we like to have fun. We understand heavy yes, exactly yes. So I thought that we would start first off by, I guess first, I think, in order for our listeners to know why this conversation matters, let's start with talking about kind of why does it matter? And I can give my own little dissertation about why I think it matters that we have this conversation, but I want to hear it from you why it matters for us, as parents who are raising children with complex medical needs, or caregivers who are caring for these children, to be trauma informed. And then let's back it up and talk about what is trauma, because that word can be pretty intimidating and I think the definition is much broader than maybe many of us initially perceive. So can you help us understand what are we going to learn from this podcast episode? That makes it super relevant that you, as a listener, don't want to tune out.
Speaker 3:Sure, the thing that I hope that people listening today walk away with is an understanding of the impact of trauma, and not just on you, but on your partner, your husband, your children, even perhaps medical professionals. Sometimes I think people walk away thinking why would they be so cruel, why would they say it this way, why this? And so I think my goal is overall to help explain what's happening to you during trauma, the actual changes that happen to you, and help you understand and be able to separate in those moments so when you can recognize it right, it may not make you feel so crazy or so you know things being so out of control, because when you can name it, you know you name it to tame it. That's something that we talk about in trauma and resilience. So that is the goal for today just to give an overview of what is actually happening to you so that you can understand how to respond.
Speaker 2:I love that, and, ashlyn, I'm going to pull you into this conversation now too. She's been here the whole time silently watching, and I saw her write down right when I did too Name it to tame it. We both wrote that down.
Speaker 4:I'm picturing a t-shirt idea with the tiger by the tail Love it.
Speaker 3:Yes, love it. That is amazing. When you said a tiger. Did you say a tiger?
Speaker 4:A trauma tiger, grab it by the tail.
Speaker 3:I'll get to why that's important here in a bit when we get to that. But we'll come back to that.
Speaker 4:A tiger, oh my gosh, I'm very excited for today's conversation. I know that we have talked about trauma. It's always been weaved, I think, throughout the episodes of Empowered by Hope, and I'm so excited to have you, sarah, with us today to lead us through this conversation, because Emily and I have approached this conversation from traumatized people perspective. I'm laughing, but only just to kind of help take the edge off. That's probably very much a trauma response, laughing things off as much as you can, because coping with something so intense and heavy is hard, and I'm so excited and grateful to have you lead us today in this conversation. I think we're all going to learn a lot to have you lead us today in this conversation.
Speaker 2:I think we're all going to learn a lot, yes, yes, and I have a feeling we will just scratch the surface and then be so excited for future conversations. So I would love for you, sarah, to help us understand what is trauma, because I know, and I'm sure not everyone can relate to this, but at the beginning of my journey, if somebody were to have told me you've experienced trauma I'm sure not everyone can relate to this, but at the beginning of my journey, if somebody were to have told me you've experienced trauma, I would bristle and be like yeah, but well, I mean, is it really trauma? I don't know. And in fact, actually just the other day I was with our family therapist and I said, oh, and you know, like you know kind of the medical trauma of my, my daughter's medical journey that might be affecting things, and he was like why do you brush that off? And I was like, oh, that feels kind of dramatic. And he's like no, that's, that's trauma.
Speaker 1:Emily, that's trauma.
Speaker 2:So anyway, if any of you are listening to this and going, oh, this isn't relevant to me, we'll just let Sarah answer that question.
Speaker 3:Well, absolutely. And the first thing I will say, I guess I should add, is you know why should? I wouldn't be listening to this? It's because if you work or you're around people, you deal with trauma, that's how it?
Speaker 3:is. We all come with our own. You just can't see it. And that brings me to the definition of trauma. Trauma is a real or perceived threat. So the issue with trauma is you can't always see that this is happening, right? You may not be able to tell that I'm experiencing a trauma reaction in a situation I may not even be able to tell. Sometimes trauma memories will come and get you and you don't even realize it's happening. Trauma memories are stored in your central nervous system, so they're stored in a different place than other memories. So when we talk about trauma memories, they are not bad memories.
Speaker 3:You know, they're body memories. Your body remembers something before your brain does you feel things start to happen. So when we're talking about trauma, the important thing to remember is what may seem real and threatening to me, may not to you, but that doesn't mean it's any less present in my current state and isn't affecting me and everything going on with me. About trauma, and I talk about trauma-informed care. Trauma-informed care is changing the mindset of what is wrong with you to what happened to you and then and what did you do to survive. Trauma puts people in a position where you are basically reacting out of instinct and you are doing things that perhaps you wouldn't have done because you feel that that's what you need to do to survive. Your brain is taking over the part of your brain that is responsible for breathing and things that you automatically do and nobody has to tell you to do them. It takes over. And so when we're talking about the physical changes of trauma, it's important to understand stress, and I will bring up stress, and I know when I talk about this I feel like people roll their eyes because we've been talked at about stress for our whole lives, right? But I think there are three distinctions I like to make. There's good stress, which is running a marathon, studying for a test. Usually there's a reward or something at the end of this kind of stress, right.
Speaker 3:Then there's tolerable stress, and tolerable stress is something that other people can relate to.
Speaker 3:Typically, you can be in a big room and someone's probably experienced a job loss, losing a loved one, moving things like that Not to say it's not extremely stressful, but it could be something other people have experienced. And then there is toxic stress and toxic stress. So when you're in a state of tolerable stress and good stress, right, your stress response goes up. Your brain tells your body you know this is kind of stressful, but it goes back down. It'll go back up and then it comes back down. But when you stay at a state of toxic stress for between four to six weeks and your brain does not come back down, that's when we're talking about PTSD and that is when actual physical changes start taking place in your brain in the way you think. So when we talk about trauma and we talk about what's happening, when you're in a state of toxic stress and your brain is constantly saying something is wrong, you're remaining in a state of hypervigilance, meaning you're constantly, whether you know it or not, you're waiting for the ball to drop. You're waiting for something.
Speaker 3:You just know it's not right, you can't relax, right, you can't bring your shoulders down. So think about if you are everyone's almost typically had an experience where you've almost been in a car accident or you've almost slipped on the ice, right? That feeling that happens when that experience happens. That is what happens and stays with you. You just may be used to the feeling when you're experiencing toxic stress, the way your brain and body moves, like that. That's what happens. We talk about memories being made when you're in a state of trauma, and the important thing to remember about that is when things are happening. Memories are subjective because your brain is not intact completely, and so sometimes people will say, well, that's not what happened, or she's lying, or this and that, and it really what it comes down to is you're just not in a state where you're able to put thoughts together.
Speaker 3:I have a little story I tell about the brain and three animals that live inside your head your head, I think. Sometimes, when you understand this story, not only is it helpful to explain to children, who are potentially experiencing trauma, but also just as an adult, right? So everyone has three animals in their brain, and this is directly from Star Behavioral Center. They use this to instruct and it's the most wonderful example I could ever think of and they're a wonderful organization and this has really resonated with me when they talk about the three animals the owl, the tiger and the meerkat. And I'll just give you a very quick, brief overview of that story.
Speaker 3:And basically, the first part of our brain is our inner brain and this is the tiger of your brain, right? So when you think about tigers, when they are happy, they are sleeping well, playing well, right? Tigers act out of instinct. The inner part of your brain is responsible for memory, making, stress response, things like that and the inner part of your brain will call the tiger. So if a tiger is happy and it's eating well, sleeping well, playing well with others, right, then we all have an outer part of our brain which is responsible for things like processing, sequential order, for learning, listening, language, the ability to put thoughts together, impulse control, things like that this part of your brain does not develop into, arguably into your 30s. That's how long it takes this part of your brain.
Speaker 3:Both our eyes just bugged.
Speaker 2:Sorry, continue.
Speaker 3:Think about husbands, people like that, you know. Wives like oh okay, so this might explain a lot. Impulse control, right, I talk about teenagers. Um, with mine I'm like well, all right, your outer part of your brain isn't formed all the way yet, so maybe, but the inner part of your brain you're born with, right, you think about a baby and a baby. When a baby is hungry, it cries, right, nobody has to tell the baby hey, listen, if you need something, you gotta let us know. Nobody says get it together, you know we. Just the baby has a need, the need needs to be met, so the baby cries. That's what the inner part of your brain does.
Speaker 3:Outer part of your brain is responsible for the listening, learning, thinking, and the outer part of your brain is like an owl, right, if there's any Winnie the Pooh fans, you think about the owl that's always teaching, you know, and is usually listening, learning. If an owl is happy, that's what we would think about. And then there's the amygdala part of your brain, which is like the smoke detector. So if you think about the amygdala as a meerkat I'm not sure if you're familiar with the meerkat meerkat manor came along, right, and I think we all at least exactly. There's always one in the pack that's perched up, these little cat-like animals. It's perched up and keeping an eye out, literally bug eyes out for danger. So inner part of your brain is the tiger, outer part of your brain is the owl, amygdala is the meerkat. So the meerkat's always looking out for the owl and the tiger right. And the second, the amygdala. Part of your brain notices something is wrong. Just like a meerkat, it lets out a screech, meaning a stress response that says something's not right to the owl and the tiger. So if the owl fears something is wrong, right. What is an owl going to do in a state of fear? They're going to fly away.
Speaker 3:So in a state of trauma, when the amygdala is going off and telling you something's not right, you literally lose the part of your brain responsible for language, listening, learning, thinking straight, all of those things. You do not have that anymore. It goes away from you the ability to access that part of your brain. You're left with the tiger, the inner part of your brain, what you were born with, your stress response, your ability to make memories, that part of your brain. And if a tiger right is agitated or fearful, that tiger is either going to run away or fight, and that's when you see aggression and the instincts come out to do what you need to do to survive.
Speaker 3:So I think it's important to think about your brain like that, like Star Behavioral Center says, and in that you really walk away with a picture of you have no control over these things that are physically happening to your brain in that situation. So when you're interacting with somebody who's going through trauma, when you can understand that these things are happening, it helps you take things less personally. If they come at you, you know and maybe seem defensive about things and understand this person in front of me is different than they were before these things happening.
Speaker 3:They don't want them, but I have to understand this is what's happening, so that I can meet them where they are and understand. They may be afraid and upset right now and I'm not, so I need to talk to them in that way, if that makes sense.
Speaker 2:That's amazing. I love that story. As you're telling the story, I'm picturing how many times my inner tiger came out, whether in fight or flight, and it's interesting how the fight or flight comes in different forms Sometimes fight, and I'd love your thoughts on this. It's not necessarily where I'm literally going to fight somebody, but it's like all right, armor's on. It's time for me to really get elbows deep. I almost get hyper involved in my child's care. No, not almost. I a hundred percent. Do you know where I'm like? I'm checking the charts and I'm I'm recording every little symptom and I'm way over.
Speaker 3:I'm in fight mode, right, well, yeah you are doing what you feel is necessary to survive you know what. I mean you are and there's.
Speaker 3:That's what some people may say oh, you don't need to do all that. No, that it for you. It's, you know, a need, not a preference. That's what your brain has taught you is okay to do. So when you're looking at people in different situations, sometimes you can look at um different things that come out as resilience factors, and that's what you know in as we talked about, I'm a trauma and resilience specialist, in the sense that when you can look at people going through trauma and pull out the things they've done and show them that these are actually resilience factors, it makes them not feel like such a bad person anymore.
Speaker 3:It helps you take some mastery. Well, you know what I am creative. I have had to lie so many times. I am organized because I needed to do those things.
Speaker 3:So it's not and I say this too trauma-informed care isn't an excuse for bad behavior. It's not an excuse for people to act certain ways. But what it is is an understanding that people are the way they are for these reasons and being able to help talk to them and work with them in a way that meets them way they are for these reasons, and being to help, being able to help talk to them and work with them in a way that meets them where they are, because you know, for example, if you are in the medical field, right, people immediately bring you in and start talking to you and giving you things, but you your brain not intact, you don't have access to what you're learning. Listening capability is so you're based in survival, so your ability to retain information is just minimal. So when you feel like I'm crazy, I know they told me this, but I can't remember.
Speaker 3:That's why, when you have something happen to you, and then weeks later you feel like your memory is horrible, you know, you think about anesthesia and there's that memory fog. That is literally what happens to you. You just don't realize that you're scattered, you feel like you can't sit still. These are all very common reactions to trauma, very, very normal, typical responses from the body that you see that people just don't quite understand and you almost start blaming yourself for them, when really this is what's happening and it's a very physical response to trauma.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 3:Sarah, I want to.
Speaker 4:So, emily, you started to talk about you kind of mentioned this a bit at the beginning and everything you're talking about. Sarah, I just want to take a quick moment. We've talked about this before, but if you're new to the show, as I'm listening to all this I've gone through MDR treatment for trauma, which was, I would say, life-giving. It gave me back my life, because I was very much stuck in that tiger mode and it's interesting it was very helpful that you talked about it that four to six-week period of being when that kind of gets locked, that PTSD does get locked in, because I did not have my first panic attack, full blown fall apart mode, until five weeks in. And now it's making sense to me. Why that? Because I held it together so much while my daughter was in the hospital and it was intense every single day and for those 35 days, and then I got home, which is when I should have felt safe. But once I felt safe, then I fell apart. And what I want to take a moment to point out, though, like I said, if you're new to this, I think it is really important that the caregivers, the parents, whoever that role is, understands it's not just your child who goes through the trauma. You yourself are experiencing trauma. I think that that's something I know.
Speaker 4:I didn't understand up front. I kept feeling Like, no, my daughter's going through trauma and I am not being a good parent because I'm not shielding her from traumatic experiences. I wasn't able to understand. I didn't have enough education at the time to realize I'm also going through trauma full steam ahead and I'm just as much in the dark. But that resilience like you spoke to Sarah dark, but that resilience like you spoke to Sarah rose up and so I was able to do everything I possibly could for my daughter. But I didn't recognize, nor did I give myself grace, that I too am experiencing trauma, and I think that that's something that's really easy to lose sight of. So what I'd love to ask you, sarah, is what are some simple steps that somebody can take to support somebody they see who's in a state of trauma? What are some go-to resources or words or whatever you recommend that we can use to help somebody when we see them stuck in that mode?
Speaker 3:Sure that we can use to help somebody when we see them stuck in that mode. Sure, well, I will first start by saying, obviously understanding that you know people have been physically changed by trauma. The second thing is that you understand there's always meaning behind behavior. So when you see a reaction, it's you don't need to take it personally and I say that because it can be very difficult not to. But when you can look at someone in front of you and say this person needs help, they are that you can. Something can be, you know it can affect you, but not be about you, and that's really key to remember as a caregiver. But then the third thing is to, you know, respond in a trauma informed way, and there's a lot of tools that we talk about, such as creating felt safety.
Speaker 3:Right, you can't make, you can't tell someone to feel safe. They have to truly feel safe. Your brain is constantly asking am I safe? Am I safe? And if you cannot answer that with yes, then you aren't moving on to the next one, which is do I, am I loved, does somebody care about me? And then, if you can't answer that with yes, you're not moving on to what can I actually learn and how can I change.
Speaker 3:But one of the biggest tools I think to answer your question that would be helpful is something we talked about Finding. Hope Consulting is another organization, wonderful organization that I went through a training course through Tri-State Trauma Network here in Cincinnati, and Mary from Tri-State Trauma Network talks about Reflect, honor, connect, right, the three, you know the three R's, which I will kind of avoid getting into all that due to time, but basically it comes down to reflect, honor, connect. You can sit and be present with someone and reflect what they're saying to you. You can honor what they needed to do to survive and that will connect you to them and they will truly feel safe with you and then you're in a position where you can actually listen and learn.
Speaker 3:Mary talks about denial right, sometimes people deny things and she talks about Ileana Gill, who is a researcher and says you know things like you. I know you may need these things to be true right now and we'll get to that. It's okay for something to maybe be true in somebody's mind that you know isn't true, but you will get to a place where they understand it's not true in time. So right, name it to tame it, kind of thing. So basically, like I said, there's so many tools but at the end of the day, reflect on or connect is probably the biggest grab that I can give you right now to think about. But it does go back to understanding that you know people that are in front of you have truly been changed by trauma and there's no need to be offended by what's going on Because you know, it is important to be able to meet them where they are and actually make move the needle and helping them.
Speaker 4:I think that's huge to help us have that awareness right that what we're seeing around us, how we're seeing others respond, has nothing to do with us and just being able to step back and respect that, also respecting your own boundaries. Like you said, it's not an excuse for somebody to mistreat you or to be abrasive, but it does create that step back, does create room for grace and the opportunity to look for that moment to, like you said, reflect honor, connect.
Speaker 3:Absolutely, and that's one of the wonderful things that I've learned through all of these trauma trainings is the different ways to meet people where they are, and part of what I do and my goal is to help, you know, my team and since I was running McDonald's house and now running McDonald's house is all around the world be able to do this, because what we, what we want is for them to stay in their job, right? We don't want secondary trauma and burnout from those of us working to try to help people. We want people to be able to help and not feel so affected by what's going on, because when you can't be there, you know mentally yourself. I talk about the window of tolerance, right, something else that we learned about, and that is everyone has a window of tolerance, everyone.
Speaker 3:And if you think about COVID, when COVID came, it closed everyone's window of tolerance. We didn't know if we could touch our mail, we didn't know if we could talk to our neighbor. You heard someone cough and you're like get away from me. Things you never would have been worried about before, so window of tolerance shut.
Speaker 3:When you think about people going through trauma, same thing you don't know who you can trust, you're constantly worried and you're not in a position where you're just able to wide open window, handle anything thrown at you and you will probably see reactions in that sense. So it's important if you are working with somebody going through trauma or you are either a family member yourself or you are somebody who is a medical professional, no matter where you are, you have to recognize your own window of tolerance when you're approaching somebody who may be experiencing trauma maybe not, you don't know, because you can never see it but when you have your own window that's closed, you may not be in the best position to actually help somebody. You need to open up your window to be able to truly do that and not be so offended if somebody has a reaction because again, it can affect you but it doesn't have to mean it's about you.
Speaker 4:That's beautiful and very clear, and I'm thinking very quickly about how many circumstances my trauma immersed self was trying to engage with another trauma immersed person who was involved in my daughter's care, and there were times that that did not work out very well, truthfully, and we learned so much then. I think it shows up a lot in partnerships because we all process things differently, but I think being trauma-informed, as we're just literally dipping our toes in today, is a really, really great step to take for yourself, to take for your child and to take for any relationships. I remember one of the things that I was most regretful of that my trauma induced self, you know, or it was a byproduct was the effect it had on my relationship with my son, my child, who was not the medically affected child, because I was in such a constant state of being triggered that the poor kid couldn't do anything without it, you know, triggering a very over the top response from myself and I struggled with a lot of guilt with that and, truthfully, I had to do some reconstruction on my relationship with him to heal that for both of us, and my son was four the first time we went through these rounds. So I'm just being open here saying that I got to a place where I can look back and see where trauma impacted me. But I got to a place, since there is hope that I did get to a healthier place and was able to go back and heal some of those moments and, you know, impacts that were negative and soothe them and move forward in a positive way.
Speaker 4:Now, sarah, for the sake of time because, like Inlu said, my gosh, there's so much that we could dive into and I would love to, but for the sake of this episode really making an impact quickly and efficiently, I would love to hear from you what are your recommendations on first steps for anybody who's listening to this, who's maybe nobody's ever had a conversation with them about being trauma informed or their own trauma. Are there any resources that you would recommend? Hey, just as a step one, I recommend you look into this to just kind of help immerse yourself in some self-education or understanding etc.
Speaker 3:Sure, you know, I think obviously it is difficult. I could recommend reading a lot of books there are so many out there but the problem is when you're experiencing trauma, things like being able to sit and focus and reading are almost impossible.
Speaker 3:So I think you know, really just starting to dive into it and looking up things about it. But understanding, starting to dive into it and looking up things about it. But, um, understanding that you know there are a lot of um, trauma informed Instagram accounts and places out there where they put up little images. That can almost be enough. You know, um, if you put trauma informed care in Instagram and search it, you're going to find a bunch of those and you may somebody may resonate and others follow a bunch and then unfollow and you may get those little nuggets pictures right.
Speaker 3:Because that's where our brains are. We need a quick, the quick response and a quick little picture with some words on it is going to sit maybe better with me than somebody talking at me, like I just did for 20 minutes, um, to try to get people to understand what's happening. So I would I think that would be my first response or reaction here would be to just maybe start there and see who resonates and then, slowly, when things start to click, like, oh, that's me, that's me. Your brain may want to learn more, it may actually take over as a. I need to know more about this so that I understand myself and everything else around me, and then you can go that way, and then you will find all kinds of books out there.
Speaker 4:That's great, I think. Just last thing, and, sarah, if there's anything you would add to this, please do so. But just another practical tip, just once again, this is from experience with Emily and I and other shared families. Beyond looking into Instagram for education, like even taking a step back, emily and I talk often about the most dangerous place for your thoughts to stay is inside your head alone. Yeah, they echo, they get bigger, they get scarier. The mouse shadow often turns into the monster and overwhelms you.
Speaker 4:So even just having somebody safe who you can just start to talk to about those thoughts in your head and if you don't feel like you're in a place you have someone safe to speak to, or that feels too much, even writing your thoughts out on paper I really keep going back to that. If you can name it, you can tame it point that you brought up, sarah. I think that is gold, sarah. I think that is gold Because so often, if you can see your thoughts or hear them out loud, that helps you start to feel like you've got some power over them Again. You're not just a passenger to this emotional roller coaster that's running off with you. It's a terrible feeling and, sarah, like I said I just I love that to name it. You know, if you can name it, you can tame it.
Speaker 3:Yeah, absolutely, and I will say, one of the things that we talk about in the resilience piece of this is art therapy, music therapy, things like that. One of my cautions, though, if you know working with children especially or really anyone is to stay curious and do not put words and thoughts that didn't previously exist. I can give an example.
Speaker 3:In our training with Mary from Finding Out Consulting, she tells a story about a child that they were working with and the child's parents had gone to jail. So they're, you know, say, draw a picture and then explain it. So they were staying curious and asking why did you draw this and what do you think about this? And what they learned was the child actually wasn't traumatized, that the father was in jail and gone. She actually felt better that he was off the streets and she felt relief in the fact that he was in jail. So if you were to ask the child why do you feel so bad that your dad's in jail and away from you? You put the words there, she maybe would have started feeling some kind of way about something she wasn't fearful of before. So you, it's not our place to decide what the trauma and the things are that are bothering somebody. It's our place to just stay curious and to let them talk and to ask those questions.
Speaker 3:And then what happened and how did that make you feel and things like that, and it's you know again. So I will say I guess my last thing is to caution against putting words where they weren't and words and thoughts where they weren't before, and find out what is really bothering this person. Don't assume that we know anything.
Speaker 2:I'll just jump in here. This is Emily. I went silent for the last 20 minutes because my children were screaming at the top of their lungs. So if you're wondering what the heck happened, emily, here I am. They might scream again. They were supposed to be having a lemonade stand and now it's raining and so there's high emotion anyway, but it's I'm. I'm just so fascinated by this, sarah, and it's interesting.
Speaker 2:So when we were in the NICU we were there for about two and a half months, which I know for some that's like a blip on the radar, but I remember in that intense training of this life, by the last month I quickly learned I was going to the Ronald McDonald House family room that was in our hospital. I was in there multiple times a day and that is a beautiful space where parents can either be all by themselves or they can connect and support each other. And by the end I discovered my superpower in healing. For me and for others.
Speaker 2:Was you make friends with these families who are staying at hospitals for months on end, right? So I might not know anything about them, but I'm deeply bonded with them because we're going through traumatic experiences together and I found it to be so healing for both of us when I would find like a parent would be coming out of some kind of procedure and really upset or whatever, to literally just sit down beside them, procedure and really upset or whatever. To literally just sit down beside them, say nothing, just be there, and it was amazing. What would you know like? It takes a lot of vulnerability and comfort with the discomfort, which was such a beautiful lesson to me to like don't pass the tissues, don't anything, just sit there and maybe if and when they're ready to hear it say I'm here with you and that's all I'm saying.
Speaker 2:You know, and it was amazing, the beautiful conversations we'd eventually have once the tears stopped or the angry words stopped flowing or whatever, maybe the silence, whatever it was of of this, the connection of I love what you said the reflect, honor connect, because until you can do the reflect and honor part, there's no connection, right? So, anyway, I, just as you were talking, I was thinking about wow, that was like a crash course in trauma, informed care, even though I had no idea what those terms meant and I still have a lot to learn. But that that connection piece is so key. And, and I would love you know, a whole nother episode will be about spouses and partners, because how we each handle trauma and then how we interact with each other is a whole nother ball game that affects us all.
Speaker 2:So well, sarah, your time, we are so blessed and grateful for you. Again, we just scratched the surface and we knew we would, but we have a whole series of podcast episodes that can keep coming out. So we'll just keep working on this topic and we're really grateful for your time. And is there anything else you want to leave our listeners with before we sign off?
Speaker 3:Just, I guess self-care, you know, and we talk about this in one of the trainings I did, Self-care was kind of the last step in the seven steps.
Speaker 3:But I talk about that training as almost like an hourglass right. The first six steps to learning about trauma are the top half, but self-care is the bottom and we say it and say it and say it, but and you can say the oxygen mask on the plane analogy over and over again, but it is true, you will shut down and 80% of chronic illness has roots in toxic stress. So I truly have seen it, I feel it and I just want to convey how actually physically challenging it will be for anyone experiencing trauma to not recognize the impact of the stress you know and things that will happen, and when you physically start taking the toll you will not be able to care for anyone else. So not to induce any panic and put anyone's fear brain out there on alert, Please remember how toxic stress can be to your whole body when you are doing things and try to find even the littlest thing that makes you feel good and celebrate that.
Speaker 2:We'll have to link Ashlyn to our self-care. We have a phenomenal episode from early on that talks about practical self-care when you're in the intensity of managing your child, either in the hospital or out, where you know it's not a spa day. We're not talking about you know, doing things that are totally not possible, but, like you said, the little things I always joke but I'm serious pee when you need to pee, that's self-care, sometimes Very true, very true yeah.
Speaker 4:So, anyway, I think we've used the term self-preservation sometimes over it. If self-care makes you bristle, sometimes it can, so even self-preservation. What do you need to do to make sure you are as healthy as you can be, even if your sole motivation is to be able to be as strong as you need to be and as available as you need?
Speaker 4:to be for your child, because if we let ourselves diminish, then we can't be the type of parent and the advocate we want to be for our child and also we can't teach our child to take care of themselves.
Speaker 2:Yeah Right, Well, this has been amazing. Anyone listening? We would love to hear from you Comment. We would love for you to like and subscribe to the podcast so this can get shared with more people. Can't wait to share this out on our social and hear any feedback, any thoughts, anything else you want to learn about trauma-informed care? And Sarah, we're just so grateful for your time.
Speaker 3:Absolutely yes, Thank you.
Speaker 4:Sarah, we appreciate it.
Speaker 3:Thank you all for having me and hopefully we did the things we talked about right. We shared why trauma is going to affect you and how you can maybe overcome a little bit, so thank you again for the opportunity.
Speaker 4:Well, thank you, and we will be including lots of links in the show notes, so check those out below. And, uh, sarah gave us some great resources to share with you all. And, yeah, we can't thank you enough. We will be diving into this conversation quite frequently, I believe, and I think we're all leaving this a lot more educated than we were at the beginning, so, thank you Leave people better than you find them right.
Speaker 3:Yes, exactly.
Speaker 2:You are capable, you are equipped and you are not alone.
Speaker 1:Together we can do hard things for our children. If this episode connected with you and you want to hear more, be sure to hit the subscribe button.
Speaker 2:We would also love to learn about your personal journey and how we can support you Reach out to us at contact at charlotteshopefoundationorg. And last but, not least, if you know of someone who could benefit from this podcast, please share.
