Ep. 22. Louis Ferrante. Borgata Trilogy author and mafia expert.

In this episode of the Heroes and Icons podcast, host Greg Randolph interviews Louis Ferrante, a former mafia associate turned bestselling author. Ferrante discusses his transformation from a life of crime to writing about the mafia, sharing insights from his experiences and research. He delves into the complexities of organized crime, the writing process behind his Borgata Trilogy, and the mafia's involvement in significant historical events, particularly the assassination of JFK. The conversation explores various conspiracy theories, the role of key figures like Carlos Marcello and Jack Ruby, and the challenges of uncovering the truth behind the JFK assassination. Ferrante emphasizes the importance of understanding the mafia's history and its impact on American society, politics, and culture.

In this captivating episode, Louis shares his unique journey from being part of the Gambino family to serving time in prison, where he transformed his life through education and writing. Discover how his firsthand experiences and deep understanding of the mafia's inner workings have shaped his acclaimed Borgata Trilogy. Join us as Louis reveals the challenges of condensing vast historical narratives into compelling stories and the meticulous research behind his work. This episode offers a rare glimpse into the mind of a man who has lived the life he writes about, providing unparalleled insights into organized crime and its impact on society.

Join us for an enthralling exploration of the New Orleans mafia and the enigmatic figure of Carlos Marcello. In this episode, Ferrante, a former mafia insider, also sheds light on the pivotal role Marcello played in shaping organized crime in America. Discover how New Orleans became the unlikely stronghold of the mafia, and delve into Marcello's influence and operations that extended far beyond Louisiana, e.g. the JFK assassination. Louis shares his unique insights into the complexities of Marcello's empire, revealing the intricate web of power, politics, and crime that defined an era. This episode is a must-listen for anyone fascinated by the hidden history of the American mafia.

For more on Louis Ferrante:

Lou's Books

Find Greg at the following:

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/heroes-and-icons-podcast/id1654249595

https://heroesandiconspodcast.com/

Houston City Beat | Heroes & Icons

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLz4Up1wHuu6hVn1eF6B2VNfz2v5tus-y7

X: @GregHeroesIcons

Other JFK Resources

The Mary Ferrell Foundation:

https://www.maryferrell.org/pages/Main_Page.html

JFK Facts with Jeff Morley:

https://jfkfacts.substack.com/

Transcript

Welcome. And thank you for joining us today on the Heroes and Icons podcast. I'm your host, Greg Randolph. Please visit my website, Heroes and Icons podcast dot com. You can also find me on Houston city beat dot com on my feature podcaster there. That's a cool website for happening local businesses in the Houston area. So check them out, please.

If you haven't already, please subscribe to the show wherever you might be listening on Apple, iTunes, Spotify, whatever. And if you're on the X platform, you can find me at GregHeroesIcons. Lastly, would you do me a favor? If you're enjoying the show, all I ask is that you please share it with a friend or two and thank you in advance for doing that. We have a very special guest today. If you are an American history buff and for our purposes this evening,

a fan or student of the mafia activities in the 20th century, you will greatly appreciate my next guest. He is not only a TV host for the show Inside the Gangster's Code on Discovery Networks International, but he has also written the international bestseller Mob Rules, as well as Tough Guy and the Three Pound Crystal Ball. In the last year, he has also gifted us with the masterpiece Borgata Trilogy, with the first of the trilogy being Borgata, Rise of Empire.

And more recently, volume two, Borgata, Clash of Titans with the third book in the trilogy, Autumn of Empire, set to release on April the 7th, 2026. So by all means go pre-order that on Amazon or wherever you buy your books it's a really amazing trilogy. can't recommend it enough. you will definitely discover some incredible insight into the complexities of organized crime.

and its effects on society, politics and otherwise. My guest today is international bestselling author and mafia expert, Louis Ferrante. It's a tremendous honor to have you on the show with me today. How are you doing, Lou? thank you very much, Greg. I appreciate that. Very flattering introduction. Thank you. You got it. You got it. Well, if I if I may, I'd like to ask you about kind of the beginning of the story. So we set the table a little bit for the for the audience. So

So you were in another life, you were a mafia associate and highest expert, part of the Gambino family. You refused to inform on your, your fellow Gambino family members and you served close to a decade in prison. how much of your own experience and familiarity of mafia code were you able to draw upon in writing these novels? it was a huge help.

when I was living it at the time, I went to prison in mid 1990s and I came home ⁓ in the 2000s. Okay. And yeah, I mean, back then I had changed my life around while I was inside. I decided that I realized crime was wrong. I didn't want to come out and be a criminal the rest of my life. Right. And I, yeah, I thought to educate myself while I was in prison.

I was tired of playing cards and just, you know, most convicts are looking for trouble. Sure. And it's just day in, day out, the same thing. And I said, let me use the time as best I can. So I educated myself and I began reading. I had never read a book from cover to cover before in my life. I fell in love with books. So yeah, I decided I was going to change my life, but never knowing that I would ever write about the mob or true crime.

That was something far from my mind. And even all these years when I was writing, I never thought that I would write a history of the American mafia, which came about. I was invited by a German company to Sicily for an event. And I was asked to be one of the speakers at the event. I was seated next to a gentleman by the name of George. it turned out to be his, he was Lord George Weidenfeld, who was one of the biggest publishers of the 20th century.

And we got to talk and we got to know each other really well. I did not know he was a publisher. And at some point in the conversation, said, I'd like to publish the next book. And the next day we met for lunch. And as we sat overlooking the ruins of Agrigento, he said, you know, said, “What do you want me to write? What are you interested in? It's got to be something I enjoy and maybe we should discuss it more. And he said, a history of the mafia. So it was sort of an offer I couldn't refuse, guess you could say. Sure. Having lived it, knowing it. So I...

When I started reading about the mob, I knew right away, because I never liked to true crime. When I was in jail, I read histories, biographies, science, and the law. Yeah, every other subject but true crime. I didn't want to read about what had landed me in prison. And at one point, I faced the rest of my life in prison. I hired and fired so many top notch attorneys that I was able to get out, you know, see the light again one day.

But I never wanted to look back at that. So I never wanted to write about true crime. ⁓ So when I had to go back and start reading about the mafia and doing my research, I couldn't believe how many things I was reading that were wrong. ⁓ And the reason was a lot of people have a disconnect, obviously. lot of people, you know, they graduate from Ivy League colleges maybe, and they go into the writing profession, maybe first journalism, and then history or biographies or what have you.

And then they get a book deal because they are good writers, not to take that away from them, they're excellent writers, but they don't have that insight into how the mafia really works. You've had to, you you've never had a pair of cold handcuffs around your wrists. You've held the cold steel of a 45 automatic. ⁓ You know, you've never had the FBI surveilling you everywhere you went. Those are the experiences I think that and living with people.

who are doing the crimes, you're committing the crimes with them. I think it gives you an element that's, if you wanted to read, for example, a biography about politics, you would look for somebody who has access to the White House, you know, in some way, shape or form, someone who's from the Beltway, inside the Beltway. I think it's the same with the mob, or it should be somebody who knows it, somebody who understands it. And I think that's what I was able to bring to the table, that a lot of, I've gotten a lot of positive feedback in that regard.

You know, people saying, gee, I never heard it from somebody who lived in. Yeah. So thank you for pointing that out. Yes, absolutely. So, so how did you so when so when we talk about the trilogy and about the beginning of the mafia in America and then the autumn of empire, how did you how are you able to pick as I know you couldn't possibly pick every single subject or person or event or anything. So how did you

How were you able to condense that into something that you were able to do? then keep it all organized. Great question, Greg, and no one's asked me that before. And that goes into the writing process, which no one ever talks about. And I'm so glad you did, because I never get an opportunity to speak about it. It was really, really mind-bending to start diving in and be inundated with so many different things, so many pieces of information, so many articles that were written, so many books that have been written. You know, before I even get to my own experiences, which in Autumn of Empire, the third volume, that's when I lived with the people who I'm talking about. I knew them. I was part of some of the things that happened, but I also knew all the participants. But in the earlier two volumes where, you know, this is before I'm even born.

You know, you're doing research and you're pulling out your hair going, what do I include and what do I exclude? Now, what is interesting to the reader? And at some point I move piles of stuff around me, piles of books, piles of papers, notes, and stuff that I've been scratching out for, you know, it turns into something where my past books would take me a year to write. I'd make an agreement with the publisher that I'd have it handed in in a year.

And within that year, before the year was up, I usually came in early. And I was always proud of that, you know, being able to deliver before time or at the very worst on time. And in this case, it was the first time where I was so, I didn't even know where to begin. And it had been like a year of research where I still didn't even put a pen to paper. And I had to go back to the publisher and it was something very hard for me to do because I'm used to delivering, whether it was a hijacked truck that I promised a fence.

You know, I deliver that's it was always my word if I tell you I'm bringing something I'm coming right and here I am telling the publisher look I've been going a year. I don't even know where I'm starting yet. This is such a huge thing ⁓ So I had luckily I had people that were understanding at the publishing house and You know at some point I figured in my own head. I said if I'm going to include

everything that moves the plot forward. So think of the mafia as an empire. So whether it's the British empire, the Spanish empire, whatever it might be, or the American empire, we could even consider the United States as some sort of empire. ⁓ What in the history of each of the world's empires is relevant and moves the story forward? So I had read so many histories that I have an idea of what authors do include in

and don't include. So I said, gee, that's what I have to do. Focus on what moves the plot forward and disregard all of the other smaller events that aren't moving the overall empire of the mafia somewhere. And that's what I was able to do. That's why I bounced in the beginning, went, which was hard too. How did the mafia come about in Sicily? That was a lot of research.

I hate when I pick up a book about, let's say, the Roman Empire, it starts off with either ⁓ Julius Caesar or Augustus or Tiberius. And what the hell happened? How'd they get here, though? Tell me how Rome came about before you tell me about a Caesar. So it's the same thing with mafia books. You pick it up and they start with Lucky Luciano or Frank Costello or Albert Anastasia. And me, I'm scratching my head going, but how the hell did the mafia come about?

And when you're living it, you have no idea. I'm hijacking a truck, I'm loan-sharking money, I'm in with the... I'm literally in and out of the houses of the people who run the Gambino crime family on a daily basis. And none of us have any idea how... what we're involved in came about. We just know that we were... You know, know the guy you're around, you know the guy who taught you maybe, the old-timer who taught you when you were younger.

And that's as far as the history goes. It's almost like a Homeric epic where you have some oral history, but you really don't have any written history. Nobody, nobody gives you like a, you know, a crate full of textbooks about the mafia. says here, read this and get back to me at the social club on threes back. So, so I had no idea and I'm going back and I'm trying to figure out how the origins came about. And ⁓ I think by researching that regard, it's definitely groundbreaking. Nobody has ever come out, come up with.

all of the pieces I was able to put together and how it was formed within the Sicilian womb and how it crossed over into America. But I think once I got past that, then I moved around a lot. I never knew personally that the Mafia's Plymouth Rock in America was New Orleans, Louisiana. I always thought that the Mafia was the strongest place it always was. It in New York. also had a strong presence in Chicago and then other places around the country as well. Obviously, Kansas, Detroit, et cetera.

I never knew that the first place the mob ever really planted a strong, sturdy flag was in New Orleans, Louisiana. And that was news to me so that I did a deep dive into Louisiana mafia, which was fascinating. And to me, they were cut above a lot of the New Yorkers for the most part, ⁓ the way they did things in Louisiana from the very beginning. And then ⁓ the...

The second volume, after I bounce around, I go to the Chicago mob, obviously. I go to Las Vegas. I go to Los Angeles. But at some point, when the second volume, we go into the assassination of President Kennedy and the mob's involvement. ⁓ And we end up back in Louisiana. And I think that, to me, one of the most fascinating parts of the history overall, was to see how brilliant, specifically, Carlos Marcello was. ⁓

Yeah, the Louisiana Don. He was just a cut above the rest, as was Santo Trafficante from Florida. You know, and they were close. It's interesting that the two Gulf Coast Dons, one in Louisiana, one in Florida, were really, really tight with each other. But I do it. I bounce around to New York, you know, other places throughout the country, wherever the story took me, wherever the meat of the story was, I followed it. And once I think I was able to do that,

I had sort of a cohesive story that I was able to tell chronologically. And I think that helped a lot. Excellent. Excellent. And you did that very well. what was... You mentioned that New Orleans and Marcello was something that fascinated you in your research, but was his later admission from prison, is that something that really surprised you in your research?

Yeah, it was kind of shocking because, you know, people talk in jail. So when I was in prison, I was locked up with lot of bosses and under bosses and consulate and you know, different prisons I went to. I was I did eight a half in federal and state prison. I was in the maximum security at first. Eventually I was dropped to a medium. But during that time, I spent a lot of time because I was a stand up guy and I never snitched.

You know, you people trust you. So a lot of times you're in a cell with people and they talk to you freely, you know, where bosses and under bosses would tell me things where if we were on the street, they would never tell me. One, they would never talk about it to anybody. But then on top of that, I was sort of at the bottom of the totem pole. I wasn't at the very top of the totem pole. But now, you know, you're a stand up guy, a boss trust you or an under boss and you're with him and you know, trust you when he starts to talk to you.

and then they ask you for advice on different things and they open up to you and a lot of guys talk to me about certain things and there's no reason to lie when you're locked in a cell with somebody. Unless you have some type of business dealings with them, that's a different story. if I had a share of a company and the underboss I'm locked up in a cell with has a share of a company, he has a reason to lie about what that company makes maybe. But if it's just bark.

you it's idle chatter and the two of us are just bullshitting as friends. There's no reason to lie. And I saw that with Marcelo. When I read the transcripts, I was amazed that, you know, it seemed like Marcelo was one of the, you know, dozen guys I had been locked up with, you know, who were as powerful as him, who talked to me as freely as he was talking to the other inmate. And he said things he might not have said on the street. You know, you're locked up, you figure where the hell they're going to put me next. I'm in already. And,

He said I killed the SOB. Right. And I believe that. Yeah, I believe it wholeheartedly. ⁓ I've been making an attempt to get in touch with the committee that Congresswoman Luna was investigating to try to get the documents released after President Trump said that he would release them. Sure. Which I believe that President Trump's intentions are wholehearted.

I believe he's sincere. I just don't believe that he understands exactly which documents are where because there are a lot of stuff still that we haven't seen yet. And I think he allowed Luna to take the lead on it to try to figure out where's what. And I'm trying to get in touch with her at the moment. And I was invited to excuse me, the JFK event on the anniversary of his death in November.

Yes. Dallas. you we're going to, there's a few of us who are working together to try to get to different agencies, which I think are being as transparent as they possibly can. I just don't think that they know exactly what to look for and where to look and who to ask, where it might be, et cetera. So, you know, there's still a sort of a little bit of a hunt going on for, for some crucial pieces that I think should still be available, although it's quite, it's quite possible that everything was destroyed. That's, know,

I mean, if you had 60 years, if you were on, if you had the FBI come into your house or anybody with a public screaming for demanding something and you had six hours to flush it down the toilet, you would imagine if you had 60 years to get rid of that evidence, which is what they had. So, you know, it's hard to believe they haven't snuck into the building one night with a paper shredder and gotten rid of it all. However, for example, like the tapes Marcello made, those should exist.

The full transcripts should exist and we have not seen them yet. So that's one piece of evidence I'd love to get. ⁓ I'd love to even get in touch with President Trump or Luna if I can. I wrote RFK's daughter-in-law, ⁓ who I met on another occasion before while I was writing my book. I met her with regard to something else. And RFK, ⁓ his daughter-in-law who worked for the CIA.

At one point, I contacted her and told her that there's a number of things that I, know, maybe you could help me get to the right people. We know that these things should exist. So we'll hopefully get, those things released. I don't know if they do exist. So we hope they do. Yeah. I mean, there, there's, there was so much of that. That was, that was destroyed almost moments after a moments right after the assassination took place with, with film and you know, you had the

You had the limousine taken away and scrubbed down immediately. And then you had cameras and film and whatever else that was just confiscated right there on the spot. And that's in addition to the other records and other departments that were shredded by, I don't know, the Secret Service and whoever else. But hopefully somehow those things do exist. know there's... Go ahead.

No, I was going to say is what you said. You said a really, really important thing. Like, for example, the limousine. There are so many pieces of evidence like that. They swept that they took that car right away. They ⁓ cleaned it up. They washed it immediately. Then they sent it to Ford to get ⁓ refurbished and they fixed the windshield. Right. And there were so many things that they did where if I if you were a detective.

And I was suspected of killing someone in my car. And then I came home with my car and then as you're on your way to my house, I go to the car wash, I wash the car, then I get rid of it, then I burn it. And then I come home and you say to me, where's the car? And I tell you, well, gee, just went to the car wash and I washed it all out. And then I got the blood out. And then there's actually camera of me doing that. And then I burned it. you'd say you're under arrest.

You know, so I mean, you know, that's enough evidence to convict people in the court of law. You know, it's pretty obvious if you put that before a jury, the jury will convict. You know, you had no reason to run to a car wash knowing the detective's on the way to your house, no reason to burn the car. ⁓ So there are so many pieces of evidence like that, that just point to conspiracy. And I laid them out all in the book. As you saw probably, I tried to make sure that I never just...

through something out there. It's all referenced in the back in the notes section. Yeah, if you want to take the time, the reader, they could go back there. And the evidence is overwhelming. I promise you, I was convicted in a court of law with much less evidence of fraction, less than 1 % of what I have produced pointing to the guilt of ⁓ the mob in a conspiracy with rogue elements of the government and.

and rogue elements of the Cuban exile community. Absolutely. Well, let me ask you this, speaking of ⁓ eliminating the evidence and people and everything else, can you talk a little bit about the hit that was put on Lee Harvey Oswald by Jack Ruby? And then why did Ruby have to take him out so soon after the assassination? Yeah, so I believe it was pre-planned. ⁓

I couldn't produce evidence, I do at one point when I am veering from the evidence and I give him my opinion, I allow the reader, I make sure the reader knows that. But in my opinion, it may have been pre-planned that Oswald was supposed to, I don't believe they wanted him arrested because they went into a panic when he was arrested. I believe they wanted him dead. And there's obviously a lot of evidence that I cite in the book in the volume two.

of the trilogy that I cite pointing to the fact even Hoover, let me say it this way, even J. Edgar Hoover believed that someone was impersonating Oswald in Mexico attempting to get a Cuban visa. And so why would they be trying to get out? Why would someone be impersonating Oswald? And this is according to J. Edgar Hoover, not me. The head of the FBI believed and said in private.

And we have the correspondences and I've cited them in the book that he believed someone was impersonating Oswald attempting to get a Cuban visa. So the question is why? What I believe, and I wrote this, I couldn't find obviously direct evidence to point to this, but what I do believe and that when I veer off the evidence, I let the reader know as I said, but I believe that the plan was to, if Oswald looked like he was the assassin, whether he ⁓ was one of the gunmen.

or whether he was a pawn, a patsy, whether he took part, I believe he was in the know, I believe he had something to do with the conspiracy, but I don't believe he knew it was going to be dumped on him. ⁓ If that's the case and you want it to look like Oswald, and you've already created a trail where it looks like he's going to be caught while escaping to Cuba, because that was the purpose of the visa, then what the mob wanted

what the Cuban exile community wanted and what rogue agents of the federal government wanted, were vehemently anti-communist and thought Kennedy was too easy on communism, was to take back Cuba. They wanted to get Castro out of Cuba and take it back. It was during the Cold War, they believed in the domino theory where if Cuba goes, all of Latin America could go. And we needed to stop it in Cuba. That's what a lot of people...

the government felt the mob wanted Havana back to their casinos that they had lost and the exiles wanted their homeland back. So those are the three conspirators. So if they can make it look like Oswald after the assassination is either killed while trying to get to Cuba and Castro looks guilty or he disappears, maybe the body disappears, maybe it was a Ruby's job to kill him, then he's gone, Oswald, and it either looks like

He made it to Cuba or he was trying to get to Cuba in any case, either of which the American public would demand an invasion of Cuba, especially if thought Castro was harboring the fugitive. And that's what the exiles and ferry, if you read the book, if anybody's listening to this and they're skeptical and you have, you come into this with prejudices where you say, I've read this book or I've read that book, or I've done decades of research and please, I beg you, read my book with an open mind.

Look at the evidence in the back research the evidence. give you all the citations and then just go in with an open mind and there's a lot of there's a lot of the story that will come to light. And to me it looks like Oswald was supposed to either get killed right after the assassination or killed and disappeared right after the assassination. Tip it may have been. I don't know this for sure. I wouldn't have said this in the book, you know for sure, because I don't have the evidence, but I may tip it may have been.

His job may have been to shoot Oswald, who was quote unquote resisting arrest and maybe Oswald got spooked and got the jump on tip at first. I'm not exactly sure and when I'm not sure I say it. I only cite what I'm absolutely positive about. When I'm not sure I do let the reader decide. ⁓ But I urge readers to read it. ⁓ I do believe Oswald was destined to die and that's why they went into a panic when he was taken.

Now when he was taken and arrested and brought to the Dallas Police Department, ⁓ I cite policemen who say that 90 % of the Dallas Police Department at the time was crooked. You never knew who was getting paid by the mob back then. They were all crooked. This is coming from members of the police department, not me. Members of the police department saying their own police department was crooked back then. So Ruby had pretty much free rein of the precinct. So he snuck in there the night Ruby was picked up. mean Oswald was picked up. sneaks in there.

And he's floating around there and a couple of journalists who saw him floating around inside the precinct while Oswald was being interrogated have you with no recording, no audio equipment, no sonographer, nothing. I don't know why we're not allowed to know this is the biggest murder of the 20th century and we don't have it recorded. What went on in that interrogation room, which is beyond me, but whatever. So Ruby attempts to get into that room on a couple of occasions.

can't get access into the room. So Ruby was trying to kill him right away, Oswald. And then he goes home and he's throwing up, he's vomiting, he's a mess. He's calling people he's never talked to for decades, telling them, I love you, I miss you, I miss you, I love you. And he's acting strangely. And apparently he's a man who seems to be doomed. Ruby, that is. And all of a sudden, ⁓

Let me just say this. If you are back then, things have changed obviously now, but back then, if you're given a mob hit, if you get the contract and you blow it, you die. That's the rule. And it was like that when I was on the street too, by the way, in the 1990s. So it's not even like, it might not be that way now, but we're in 2025. But when I was on the street in the 1990s, if somebody gave you a contract and you blew it, you're dead.

Yeah, they don't there's no mercy. There's no there's no reprieve You can't say ⁓ my gun jammed. I shot him. I hit him in the arm and he ran away You're dead. You blow a hit you die. So ruby knew if his task was to kill Oswald Or get rid of him and he blew it and Oswald was accidentally arrested Ruby knows he's a dead man. That's why he's running around throwing up his guts finally when he shoots him and he kills him

And he's in, before he knows he kills him, he's in the precinct, and I detail this in the book. He's in the precinct and the journalists, once again, who were present, said he was pretty nervous until he got news that Oswald was dead. After he shot him, he's waiting, you know, he's charged at the precinct with attempted murder. And now it turns into a murder charge. Now, have you, once again, Ruby should be now.

he should feel worse because if you shot somebody spontaneously like supposedly they say and he's at the precinct and he's charged with attempted murder the moment you realize the person is dead is when you're getting charged with murder which is punishable by the death sentence in Texas so you should be really screwed up by that news but the journalists who were observing him said when he got the news that Oswald was dead which meant that he would be facing the death penalty

was laughing and joking he was happy and jovial he couldn't he looked like a load was off his back because he figured hey i could fight it in the courts but i got the mob off my back now I’m not i don't have a guaranteed death sentence i have one through maybe I’m being charged with it i could possibly he was going to get off Ruby didn't think there was any Texas jury that would convict him for shooting Oswald because he had done with any patriotic American would do in his mind which was shoot the president's killer so

You know that once again, any of your listeners come into this preconceived notions, please read the book with an open mind. I beg you. Feel free to email me if you have a question, ⁓ but go in with an open mind and read it. ⁓ You know, thinking to yourself, I'm open to whatever, you know, if the evidence is here and it's not just someone making stuff up as he goes along. And I assure you that's exactly what it is. The evidence is there. It's all in the back.

And there's an overwhelming abundance of evidence pointing to a conspiracy and pointing to the things that I outlined in the book. And it goes all back to Marcello, by the way. Marcello was the hub of the conspiracy. And you have to imagine like the CIA, we don't know how many people they may kill now and drone and who knows what they do. We're not aware for the most part. We know we have the tip of the iceberg. We don't know everything that they do. But back then, the CIA

their M.O. was to farm things out. And if they could get the mob to do them a favor and be on the ground and put it together on the ground and they could stay on slain and have plausible deniability, that was how they were operating back then, especially under Alan Dulles. And when Alan Dulles left the CIA, it continued under Helms. you know, McCone was clueless, obviously, John McCone, I make that clear. know, McCone really didn't know what was going on under him. And I think- ⁓

I think Harvey and Richard Helms had a conversation at one point where they said, do we want to fill in McCone, who was the director of the CIA? And they felt it was advisable not to even fill them in on anything they were doing. And they just left them in the dark. So you got a CIA that's basically running itself ⁓ just under the director's chair. They're doing whatever they need to do. ⁓ These guys are seasoned CIA guys. And they felt then,

And there's a lot of evidence, once again, to suggest this. They were trying to kill Castro with the mob's help. You know, nowadays they might have a million other different variety of ways to get a world leader and topple the regime and prompt a regime change. But back then, their go-to was the mob. And they went to Santo Traficante, they went to San Giancana and they spoke to them and said, help us kill Castro. We want him dead. And they felt that there was a level of...

insulation that they would use the mob to kill and they could sit back and this went all the way up to Dulles. Dulles was well aware of what the mob was doing to try to kill Castro So I make the argument if they use the mob for that and they felt Kennedy was another mutual enemy, which they did they did indeed You know, who knows it seems that they conspired once again together Absolutely.

Are you familiar with the Godfather actor Gianni Russo and his claim that hitman Johnny Rosselli was not only involved in the JFK assassination, but rather that Rosselli was the one that actually made the kill shot from the sewer drain? I'm aware of the claim and this is where the evidence took me. This is years of research. I did over 10 years of research for the trilogy.

as a whole and a lot of that research time was sucked up with the Kennedy conspiracy. So I will say that my research based on what I found and based on what I know to be true as a former mob guy, Roseli was involved for sure to certain extent, to some extent. He knew he was in the know, he was involved. He was definitely not a shooter on the ground. A guy...

who was known to frequent Las Vegas, was known to be with Starlets, Hollywood actresses. ⁓ He's not a boss, but he's ⁓ a ranking member. ⁓ He's not crawling into a sewer to take the shot. They got sharpshooters for that stuff. That they can either kill 10 minutes later or help them escape to another country or who the freak knows a million different things they could do. They're not putting Johnny Roselli in a sewer.

That's like saying, you know, John Gotti, who was the biggest mob boss of the 20th century, you know, he was asked to help the CIA kill somebody or another who was visiting Manhattan. I mean, could you imagine, Gotti would have sent a guy like me to do it maybe, or a few guys like me, but he wasn't going to sit in a sewer with a rifle and shoot the guy himself or go to a rooftop with you know, with an earphone and a walkie talkie.

He's the boss. So, no, big guys don't do things like that. Rosselli was a big guy by then. He was meeting with congressmen, senators. Yeah, I mean, he was no joke to imagine him crawling through a sewer. No. Well, know, now, yeah, I just don't believe it. I just, you know, I don't know. And I didn't even have a shot coming from the sewer as far as I saw. But who knows? I don't know. I got you. 

I guess there's one school of thought that with the guys that were the shooters in Dealey Plaza that day was that the older guys were up and back and that the younger guys were down in the trenches for that reason. You like you're saying like the... What do mean in Dealey, with regards to Dealey Plaza? Yes, yes, I'm sorry. Yeah, where the guys were, you had maybe... ⁓

you know what a Eugene Hale Brading that was in the back as a spotter, I think as you mentioned, you had, and you had other guys in other places, but, but the older established guys were not, we're not going to be down like in some places. You're not going to see Marcelo anywhere near there. It's a big guys usually when something's going down, even if it's just a hit on in the New York mob, let's say there's going to be a big hit. Um, usually the guy waters it.

It's different when like John Gotti took over the family. He was present because it was a coup of sort of like junior offices, know, shall we say, for argument's sake. ⁓ But when a big boss orders something, his first ⁓ order of duty is establish an alibi. know, Marcello was in a courtroom when that was happening and he was definitely the central figure. Traficante was in Florida.

You know, these guys aren't going go near the big guys aren't going to go near the early plaza. No, no. You know, that's like, yeah, never happened. So, yeah, so they would, whoever's on the ground, I believe it was David Ferrie you know, they who they called the master intrigue. You know, I believe he had he was in a courtroom with Marcelo, too. He wasn't even seen in the early plaza. He only rushed there afterwards. But I do believe he put the puzzle pieces together before time. And then it seemed to me like Eugene Hale Brading

was one of the, Eugene Hale Brading was in the DalTex building. And it's quite possible that the shots that we believe came from the book depository may have come from the Daltex building as well. There may have been a shot fired from there as well. I don't know. So I couldn't get this, couldn't really, I couldn't come to a definitive answer in my own head with regard to who the shooters were, other than I knew Eugene Hale Brading was in the Daltex building. Obviously.

was in the book depository but he wasn't up on the floor where the president was shot from. He was you know he was drinking a soda when the cop went in there you know literally you know less than a minute later so you know I just couldn't figure out who was on the grassy knoll ⁓ we may never know that if I was planning Dealey Plaza I would have had ⁓ Eugene Hale Brading may have been a spotter he get away from there and lived to talk about it

Right. He went on to live for a long time after that. Yeah. I think he was a block away when Robert F. Kennedy was shot in California. Yeah that's just too much of a coincidence for me. You know, yeah, me too. But as far as like on the ground, what if I was planning Dealey Plaza as a mob guy, I would have made sure that the shooters got paid a lot of money before time. And then and then we killed him right after.

and i was just raised up you what is on the two of the two of shots in the grass you know i would have told you're going to get you're going to drive down this street get in the car with this guy he's going to bring it to the airport and then we're going to fly out of the country he would have never made it to the airport if you got on the plane you would have been thrown out over the over you know over ⁓ the Gulf or something you know there's no way that you want to shoot is running around after that ⁓ the mobs

The mob is known to, in volume three of the trilogy I'm writing currently, there are guys that killed and then were killed. It's a typical thing for a boss to have a guy kill two or three, four five guys for him, and then he kills the guy who killed them all, and there's no trail back to him then. So they like to cut off, they like to insulate themselves. So I'm not sure, that could be a very good reason why.

You know, lot of people have said also to that other guy who confessed from prison was one of the shooters. Maybe. I don't know. ⁓ I suspected Woody Harrelson at one point. ⁓ His father. Yeah, I'm sorry. Charles Harrelson. ⁓ Yeah, Charles Harrelson. ⁓ Charles Harrelson is an odd guy because there's a couple of things that maybe do think that he obviously to me, at least he looks like one of the hobos.

That they took a picture of some people dispute that but also what's interesting about Harrelson is ⁓ He gets caught he does a life sentence later on for shooting a judge with what with a high-powered rifle Who does a mob hit with a high-powered rifle and he was commissioned he was contracted by mob guys, you know Who the hell does it who does a mob hit with a high-powered rifle? It's not common. No. So he shoots the guy with a high-powered rifle goes to jail for life

And on another occasion, apparently he was jacked up on drugs or drinking and he was having a standoff with the cops and while he was juiced up, he went through the whole assassination. I found evidence of this at some point and he told the cops, I killed Kennedy, I was there, I was one of the guys, this and that. And then they finally got him back to, they finally take him into custody and they get him back to the jail and he sobers up and they question him. They said, you told us all this, ah, it was just.

You know, was jacked up on drugs or drinking or whatever the freak he said. You know, that was just chatter. You know, that was just, I was just BSing. Don't believe that. But I do believe what people say when they're drunk. You know, like if you, you know, I believe, you know, when I drink, I start telling friends and family, I love them. I don't tell them I love them all the time when I'm sober. I'm a happy drunk. I tell them I love them. The truth comes out. You know, if I, if I hated somebody, I might tell them that too when I'm drunk. know, Stalin used to have,

When Stalin used to have his little get-togethers at night with the Politburo, and he used to crack open the booze, and everybody was drinking cognac, and they were drunk, and then he'd listen to what they'd say, because he knew the truth came out when they were drunk. And he would be drinking water in his flask. of the German, I think when von Ribbentrop was German Foreign Minister, von Ribbentrop was visiting the Soviet Union at one point, one of his underlings...

was, you they were toasting one after another and the underling went to take Stalin's flask because he had finished his own. He grabbed Stalin's flask and he wanted a drink and Stalin's like wrestling with him. He didn't want to give up his flask. And then finally the German pulls it away from him and takes a swig and he spits it out realizes he had water in his flask. So Stalin would drink water all night, listen to everybody else get drunk and spew the truth. you know, and then three or four guys got killed the next week, you know, like whatever.

You know, so, you know, if they made a mistake, whoever made a mistake at them, one of these get togethers was dead, obviously. I'm exaggerating by saying three or four at once, but it's not beneath him to do that. So it's the same thing here. I believe Charles Harrelson, when he was drunk and he said all that. And then he got back to the jail and realized, you know what? I'm not gonna stick to that. No way. I can't believe I said it. And then he changed his tune. So he could have been. I'm not sure.

I'm positive he was there and I'm positive he was there for no good reason. He either took a shot from the DalTex building or like you said, was a spotter. And contrary to what they tried to say later, there were a lot of books who tried to say, well, you know, the apologists who say that Kennedy was just killed by some little nut, they have to excuse all these coincidences. So a lot of people say, well, was caught coming, I mean, running into the building. He wanted to make a phone call.

after he realized the president was shot. One is what is he doing in Dealey Plaza? Two, he changed the name on his license before he flew to Dealey Plaza. Three is it's a lie. The policeman who took him in said he was in the building. It's a lie if he says he went into the building. He was in it when I got him. So he tried to claim he went in the building, went up, looked for a phone and came back down on an elevator and then got caught coming out. The cop said that's a lie. He was inside the building.

So, you know, if you do enough research, you find the real evidence and not just what people have said to try to like, you know, kind of hide the truth over the decades. Eugene Hale Braving should not have been in Dealey Plaza, should not have been in the DalTex building. And he went on to become a member of the La Costa Fairways golf course in California, which was built with used money. Yeah, and it was frequented by gangsters all day long. So, you know, he was definitely connected.

Well, and he got, and let me, there's a lot to unpack there. it's more believable that maybe Charles Harrison, who has a drunk man's words or a sober man's thoughts that, you know, that he's more believable or the lady who, Rose Sherry, who was high and then thrown out of the car ⁓ on the side of Louisiana highway. And she tells the cops that picks her up.

that picked her up that the men she was with were on the way to Dallas to kill Kennedy. And that was a week or two before that happened. And so, I think it's with, I'm kind of in the ⁓ same mode of thought that you are, is that it's more believable that someone's gonna just immediately spit that out when they're under the influence of something as opposed to.

We have someone like James Files who just, you know, who just, you know, said all this other crazy stuff, but. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. James Files. was the guy slipped my mind. James Files. That's right. And Rose Cheramie told Lieutenant Francis Frouge who went back to the hospital after Kennedy was killed because he wanted to interview that. Now he's, you know, he's scratching his head. At first he thought, hey, she's withdrawing from heroin. She, you know, she spaced out.

She's just talking crap and he didn't believe it at first. So then when Kennedy gets killed, he runs back to the hospital where she's still recovering from the highway incident she had. And she was, you know, now she's weaned off the drugs and he wants to interview her again. And the doctors said, not only did she tell us as well that Kennedy was going to be killed and we didn't believe her either, but then I think there was a nurse or somebody said when she was watching it on TV, she said, here's what it's going to happen. Watch.

You know, she called the whole thing. Wow. And yeah, so, you know, I was able to connect in my book too. ⁓ She said she was she traveled there with a couple of Italians and she was connected to Jack Ruby and his strip clubs. Now, Jack Ruby was dealing drugs in Texas and Traficante was a big drug supplier in Miami who sent drugs to Texas. it's quite possible that ⁓ she said, according to her.

Rose Cheramie that i was traveling with a couple of the time guys who by the way they've been Cubans i know Cubans who could pass for times all day long uh... know that the i a g and what other covers at a time for a few so they may have been not Cubans but she said look i was traveling to a time we told you that we're going to drop off drugs and they go kill Kennedy that's right and so on yes so that i mean they have it once again you know it's a woman

And when Frouge goes back to the hospital, he thinks he's about to crack the case. He's got a perfect witness. ⁓ She called this before it happened. She could crack open the whole conspiracy. If you start doing a deep dive into her life, who she spoke to, these guys were, figure it all out. Put her in a chair. Get everything out of her that you possibly can. Trace her records, trace her whereabouts, et cetera. And when Frouge calls it in, they told him...

We don't need you case closed. You know, when I'm interested in your information, first scratching his head going, what the hell are you talking about? And they said, well, we got a phone call from director Hoover who said the case is closed. It's a lone nut. Oswald did it done. We don't need to hear from you. So, you know, a lot of times there were a lot of honest policemen because I pointed out how dirty the Texas Police department was, but there were plenty of honest policemen.

Like Frouge, who didn't want to investigate this. Yeah, who did do their due diligence, who did attempt to, you know, to dive into this. know, they wouldn't want to crack the president's death, right? The president's murder. ⁓ It's a career maker too. And they were all told to back off. ⁓ And it came directly from Washington. So something's really strange and fishy when they shut down an investigation like that right away. ⁓

You got to, you got to, something's got to go real high for them to do that. ⁓ yeah. I just think that, you know, with, obviously with, Oswald being the Patsy and then that way there's all the focus is, is on him and it's not on all these other things that happened around Dilley Plaza that day or before. So

That's just me. How about this, Greg? I do mention in the book, there was a gentleman by the name of Thomas Arthur Valley. Thomas Arthur Valley, if you recall from the book, he was the guy that he was sort of like a he was sort of like ⁓ an imitation of Oswald. He was the Chicago version.

Exactly and they get him a job in a building overlooking the planned presidential route in before Kennedy ends up canceling that trip but he gets a job, he's got the same ⁓ MO as Oswald, suspected of being a loner, suspected of having some psychological problems while he's in the Marines ⁓ and he even looks like Oswald and he gets a job

in this building who gets him the job, don't know, but he gets his job in the building overlooking the motorcade route. And right before, it's tipped off to the Secret Service that, there's a plot to kill the president in Chicago. And they do raid an apartment. They come up with high-powered rifles and stuff. And the two guys they questioned will let go suspiciously. And we don't even know who they were to this day. So two out of the four, there were four suspects, and two out of the four were questioned. We don't know who they were.

So that's sort of like a conundrum too as well. like how the hell, so if you think about it too, first they tried to kill him in Florida, Kennedy, and Traficante controlled Florida. And there was a guy who got caught on tape saying, he's dead when he comes to Florida. We're gonna hit him with a high powered rifle from a building and we're gonna dump it on some nut. This is on tape. We have this tape before the murder. Now I'm gonna tell you.

⁓ Not only did I have three major cases myself, three major indictments, I was indicted by the Secret Service, the FBI, and the National County Organized Crime Task Force of New York. I know what it is to go to trial. If I had that on tape, you're dead. And apparently the Secret Service didn't even care. That's evidence. So he goes, dead when he comes to Florida. They tip the police, get the tip. They run it up to the Secret Service.

They cancel it Florida. Then Chicago, Thomas saw the valley is placed in this building. ⁓ Service foils that plot. Kennedy cancels it for another reason. head of Vietnam was killed. There was a political reason he canceled the trip. ⁓ But then it's got to happen in Dallas. So I was surprised nobody ever just pointed out what's simple and clear to me is the three places Kennedy is going to get killed. Chicago. Right.

at Dallas are controlled by Traficante, Giancana, and Marcello. Marcello, by the way, controlled Dallas. was a satellite empire of his Louisiana, a satellite of his Louisiana empire. Yes. And then I understand also from Gianni Russo that each of the families had shooters in Dealey Plaza that day. That was another assertion he made. You know, I'm not sure. You know, I mean...

I know who Russo is. I've never really had a conversation with him. think I'm going to be on. There's a special coming up on Fox this week on Fox Nation where he's one of the commentators and I am as well. ⁓ Usually if they do hit like the half a hit, it's you know they'll do like the Detroit mob. You know, make the Genevieve family will kill him in the Detroit mob may clean it up. You know that every everybody dips their hands in the blood. They do inter family stuff like that.

But I'm not sure about each family having somebody in the oldie plaza because the New York families were left out of it. They weren't involved. You know, they didn't need them. So, you know, did they run it by them? Did they get a wink from them and nod? I don't know. But they really don't seem to have anybody directly involved in the conspiracy. It was basically Louisiana. Chicago had something to do with it and Trafficante in Florida.

Those were the three places. Marcello, Trafficante, and Giancana seemed to be the culprits. They wouldn't have had to run it by the New York mob either. You this is something too big. You know, you can't go around. Usually, you know, you've got to get approval from the commission when it's a big hit. But there's the president. There's the president of the United States. Right. And it's life or death. The other thing too is in the mob, when it's life or death, you have the authority to kill them. You know, that's like mob rules. So for example, if I'm in jail,

I'm not allowed to raise my hands to a boss. It's against the rules. If I did do that, I would be killed. But if that boss attacked me first and I killed him in self-defense, then the mob allows it because it's self-defense. As a man, you're permitted to defend yourself. That's the rule. Those are the mob rules. So Louisiana, Marcello, Traficante, they considered Kennedy alive in that situation. They felt like if they didn't get him.

he was going to get them through Bobby Kennedy, the attorney general. Once again, I urge readers to read the book. I go deep into how it wasn't necessarily John F. Kennedy who the mob disliked. was Robert F. Kennedy, but they felt John was not reigning him in and he should have. And they also counted on the father, Joe Kennedy Sr., ⁓ who promised them an easy ride. And then Joe Kennedy Sr. unfortunately had a massive stroke after playing golf and he was an invalid and they couldn't get

him to call off Bobby and John Jr. I mean, John Kennedy rather wasn't listening and Bobby just kept destroying the mafia and they felt like it was do or die. in a case like that, don't need Marcello doesn't have to go around and ask permission from the commission or anything he can do as he pleases. It's life or death for him. doesn't care. gotcha. I gotcha. Back to Marcello in New Orleans. I know it's such a

such a deep ocean of subject material here. ⁓ so in the same vein that that Brading got the founders membership at La Costa, ⁓ David Ferrie got a gas station from Marcelo that was the Davos on if I say I'm saying that right on airline highway and also in New Orleans, also used as a CIA front is something of that magnitude of gas station.

back then that would have made him, several hundred thousand or a couple million or whatever it is in today's money. that it? Can we assume that that's a reward for something substantial? Yeah, 1 million percent. And I'll prosecute again. If you were trying to conspirators in this case, a prosecutor would certainly use that as evidence because it points to guilt. It's motive.

You know, a man's wife dies mysteriously and then they find out that the man took out a life insurance policy on her the day before, is it proof that he killed her? No, of course not. Does it look guilty? Would it be shown to a jury? One million percent. And it's the same thing in this case. Sherry is retained by Marcello to help him with his case. He's got a case. He's fighting deportation. He's also fighting a fraud case from All Brought to Bear by Bobby Kennedy. And while he retains him,

Okay, he gives him money, got him on retainer, he's working on his case through the offices of G. Ray Gill, the attorney. ⁓ is working as sort of like a researcher for G. Ray Gill. So it makes sense. But once Marcello is acquitted and caught, and Ferrie's done with him, and the case is done, it's passe. Why in the world would you buy him a gas station? And who the hell buys anyone a gas station? I've hired the biggest lawyers.

I had William Consola, I had Barry Slatnick, I've had some of the biggest lawyers money could buy and I never bought anybody a gas station, know, let alone a paralegal working for in their office. So, you know, obviously, obviously this is something happening. ⁓ You know, there's something going on and Garrison uncovers that, Jim Garrison ⁓ in his investigation of the conspiracy, he uncovers that, but he was...

too close to Marcelo to go after it. didn't follow up on that. Garrison did. Right. But he goes after Ferrie. so that was my next question is like, why even do all this investigation and everything else if he wasn't willing to go after everybody? So instead, he's going after Clay Shaw and David Ferrie and not Marcelo. But that's because

Marcelo helped him get elected, ⁓

But wasn't me. But the government had a difference of opinion. said, well, he was too. And I think the only reason the government was interested in that was because they were mad at Garrison for opening up the case. Otherwise, they didn't really care if he took bribes. No one cared. ⁓ They'd done it so long in Louisiana. But Garrison tiptoes around Marcello. And there's something interesting about him going after Ferrie. So he goes after Ferrie, who was Marcello's guy. And at the same time, he's searching around Florida for Eladio Del Valle.

who was one of the Cuban exiles who suspected of being part of the conspiracy. And Eladio Del Valle was directly connected to Traficante. So at the same time, Marcello, I'm sorry, Garrison is searching for, he's got Ferrie supposedly in his possession, in his custody, and he's supposed to be shadowing him everywhere he goes. He's got him holed up in the Fontainebleau, you know, with a security guard around him. That security guard at some point disappears. We don't know why.

Sherry runs off, goes home and is found dead. And then Garrison finds Eladio Del Valle also dead in Florida with an axe through his head and a bullet through his heart. So, you know, I mean, these are two guys that knew each other, Eladio Del Valle and David Sherry may have conspired together. One new Traficante, one new Marcello. And as soon as both are looked at by Garrison, both show up dead. I mean, you know, these are too many coincidences where you go,

Once again, I was in court for many years. The government needs almost nothing to put you in jail, for the rest of your life, even. mean, turn on ID Discovery on the television, and you could watch how many people were convicted of nothing, with no evidence, and they're ⁓ exonerated because the DNA proves they weren't even guilty, or something comes up and they weren't even near the area, and they were convicted with hardly any evidence. And I give an abundance of evidence.

40 or 50 pages of reference notes in the back that you could look up yourself that all points to a conspiracy and no one's interested in it. It's mind boggling, Greg, when you think about it. If you've gone through the court system like I have and you've seen how easy it is, you're convicted on hearsay, you're convicted on, the prosecutor usually makes up the motive. They don't even know the motive because they weren't inside the conspiratorial conversation. So they have to...

have to now create a motive and they do that. Sometimes the motive is accurate, sometimes it isn't, sometimes it's semi-accurate. ⁓ You know, not to take away from the prosecutors and what they do, but this is how the way the system works. But all of a the system failed. For this one huge murder, probably the most consequential murder of the 20th century, if not human history, or up there with them. And suddenly the system just completely breaks down.

and all the evidence that's available is discarded, no one cares. ⁓ And it's all in the book. And I explain why and I quote the people who were involved and the reasons why they say they don't wanna do this or they don't wanna look into this or certain people say, why aren't we looking here? Why aren't we looking there? And how they're shut down. ⁓ So there's something strange going on. And usually if it smells like it, looks like it, it is it. We know that, right? ⁓

I hear you. Well, this is this has been an incredible conversation. Let me ask you just a couple more quick things and we'll land the plane, so to speak, if that's OK. So you have the third volume of the Borgata trilogy, which is set to release April 7th of twenty twenty six. Are you doing any type of book signings or anything for the release or? ⁓ you know, as of now, there's nothing planned, but I'm sort of reactive. So if somebody, let's say

You know, if somebody says, hey, look, we want to invite you to wherever, you know, a library, maybe the library has a budget to bring in a writer or something. I'm open. You know, I'm wide open to going anywhere. I've done it for my other books. We live in a world that's more remote now. A lot of things are done by podcasts and Zoom and all kinds of other things, whereas, you know, my other books, when they would be released, I'd end up doing a book tour.

I did visit a lot of different libraries and bookstores and different events and stuff where it doesn't happen as much nowadays, but if I am invited, once again, I am reactive. If somebody's got a budget to bring me in, I usually go. So if you know anybody, feel free to ask. ⁓ I was invited to Dallas, as I said, for the anniversary of JFK's death. There's a big gathering there. ⁓ Yeah, so I'm excited about that.

I meet a lot of people, like-minded people who understand something was wrong and they'd love to get to the truth. But ⁓ once again, I believe President Trump has made a huge step in the right direction by ordering the documents released. I wish I had the president's ear and could say to him, hey, look, this is great, but we're not getting it all. ⁓ Can I run wild inside these agencies? Yeah, mean, start looking in the broom closets, wherever the hell they may have hit something, because there's a lot more we shouldn't be getting.

If it still exists, who knows? Well, all we can do is just keep knocking on doors and keep chasing it and hope for the best. So you mentioned that you're going to be working with ⁓ Larry Schnapp of ⁓ JFK Facts ⁓ at the conference. Are you guys presenting together at the conference or are you...? Yeah, think Larry's a gem of a guy and Larry's absolutely brilliant. He's done so much work.

voluntarily over the decades. and again, when I was doing my research, I would come across the Mary Ferrell Foundation, which was the main depository for documents regarding the JFK assassination. And time and again, I would come across Larry's name as the guy who initiated the FOIA request to release those documents. So I knew Larry well before he had ever reached out to me and I had the honor of meeting him.

you know, becoming friends with him. ⁓ And as far as the event is concerned, Larry will be ⁓ sort of mediating the conversation that I'll be having ⁓ around things that I've discovered and put together in the book. ⁓ know, I've looked, nothing I've come up with is, you know, I haven't dug holes and found things that have never been on earth before, but I've done my best to put the pieces together in a cohesive way that.

I've been complimented about where it hasn't been done to that degree yet. So we'll be talking about that and Larry will be mediating that conversation as to what I found and what I was able to put together and the different pieces. For example, everybody gives Garrison a pass and usually either the like the people who agree with like Robert Blakey and say it was the mob, but it wasn't the government. Then you have the people who agree with Garrison saying it was the government, it wasn’t the mob. I feel it was an overlap.

I feel like Garrison was protecting Marcello and Blakey was protecting the government. And if you take what the two of them did together and you overlap them, I think that's where you'll find the most ⁓ believable, plausible scenario. Excellent. Well, I'm going to try to make this conference in Dallas. I don't know if I can, but I certainly hope to meet people such as yourself and guys like the

the great ones, the, you know, someone like Robert Grosden and then the guys at America's Untold Stories, Martin Grubert and Eric Cunley have done some amazing research on some individual pieces of ⁓ the JFK assassination picture. So I hope that you'll, if you don't know those guys, I hope that you'll be able to connect and share information and all that good stuff.

can tell you, I know of them, I've read their books. ⁓ These are titans in this area. I'm like a babe in the woods here, to be honest. I came in with a mob angle, so that's my expertise, but a lot of these guys have expertise with regards to certain elements of the conspiracy that they are the gurus. ⁓ So yeah, I look forward to meeting all those people as well. I hear you, same here.

Excellent. Well, where can the listeners go to get more information about your books? And I'm going to put links to all these websites and your books and everything else in the show notes for the podcast. where would you like listeners to go to get more information about your work? Yeah, it's the best place. mean, it should be available at all bookstores, Barnes & and stuff.

Some do carry, some don't, depending on where you are in the country. So the easiest way is to click onto Amazon and put in my name, Louis Ferrante, ⁓ the Borgata Trilogy, B-O-R-G-A-T-A, the Borgata Trilogy. I also have a website, lewisfarante.com, L-O-U-I-S-F-E-R-A-N-T-E.com. And you can contact me through the website if you're reading the books, you have any questions. The only thing I have a...

I think about is please don't email me with questions before you read the books because a lot of times the answers are all in the books and I spent so much time putting the questions, you the answers together that I urge readers, know, listeners to read the books and then if you have any questions while you're reading them, feel free to get in touch with me. I'll answer it if I could. But that's it. Thank you. I greatly appreciate it. I say the best thing is probably Amazon. Even on my website, I have a link that clicks over to Amazon. So I appreciate that. Thank you, Greg. Excellent. Well, I highly recommend getting

getting this trilogy for yourself or as a gift for someone this Christmas or holiday season. I've, I've thoroughly enjoyed our conversation. Lou, thank you. Thank you very much for speaking with me today. Likewise. Thank you so much, Greg. I greatly appreciate it. Thank you. You're welcome. I'm just so grateful to you for writing all these, all these books and in your research and the incredible stories. And this was just an absolute blast and a pleasure. I can't thank you enough for being my guest today.

and my very best wishes for success with the books and all future endeavors. Thank you, Craig. I appreciate that. Back at you as well. Thank you. All right, everyone. Thank you again for listening to the Heroes and Icons podcast Once more, thank you very much to our guest, Lou Ferrante. And you can find the link to his books and the show notes for this podcast. Thank you, everyone, again, for listening. Have a great night. God bless.