0:00:00
The sword of the spirit is the word of god. I mean, we don't know what happens in spiritual realm when we pray. That's why it's so important because things are going on that we can't see. Right? Ephesians six tells us, and we don't fight against flesh and blood, but rulers and principalities and powers of the dark world, and there is spiritual war going on. Hi. I'm Ruth Hovsepian. Welcome to the out of the darkness podcast where we help you navigate life's trials based on faith and biblical truths.

0:00:47
Penny Cooke is a multi award winning writer certified biblical life coach, bible teacher, and speaker. She has a hunger for the word and prayer and is passionate about helping others in their relationship with the Lord. Welcome, Penny. I am so glad that you are here today for many reasons. One, I met a fellow Armenian. Mhmm. But secondly, I think one of my greatest passions is the topic of prayer. And I believe that that is one of yours as well. And -- Mhmm. -- there is so much to unbox today. So let's jump right in and what I'd like to do is just get a little back story about you. If you can tell us a little bit about your journey and how you got to where you are today. Alright.

0:01:39
Well, I grew up not going to the Armenian church that often because It was in the next town and my mom not being Armenian and she went to the Baptist Church. Mhmm. So she took us there because it was so close. And I was given a bible when I was young. In that church and just started reading it. I would see my mom reading her as my dad worked at night and she would sit and read her bible if she would just sleep. So I don't remember anybody telling me to read it, but I just loved reading it. And I read songs a lot. And when I look back, I think I think that taught me to pray because you read songs and that's what it is. It's crazy. Long. And you read the psalmist just crying out to god and just being really real and raw. And I think it just taught me that I could do that. You know, prayer wasn't necessarily just something to recite, but you know, he was my heavenly daddy  and I could just come to him and -- Yeah. -- burn my heart out. And I can't say I really knew Christ as my savior until I was in my early twenties. You know, I believed I had read the bible, but I didn't really understand salvation until I went to a bible study as in doubts. My sister had been going to a certain church, and she invited me to come to this bible study, and it just made everything make sense. And it was like the lights turned on for me. I understood things. I didn't understand before I had a peace and a joy. My desires changed. I just knew I was born again. Yeah. Emma was different. Yeah.

0:03:37
It's interesting because you painted a picture there that reminded me of my childhood as well. Seeing my parents read their bible together every day, and then seeing my grandparents do the same thing morning and night. And when we had sleepovers, that's what was drilled into my into my brain. And again, I wasn't told to read. I mean, you know, we were told in Sunday school and in family. It's good, but I was never pressured to read it. It was something that I saw my family doing I knew it was a good thing. Right? And, you know, just a quick story is my daughter went to Armenia on a Mission Strip with my parents, and she came back from that Mission Strip affected by the fact that she had been reading the bible every day with my parents before they started their mission day. And that had a huge effect on her and her husband to be after.

0:04:44
But it's so amazing what an example we set as well in prayer because my grandparents didn't just pray in front of us. I mean, read the bible in front of us, but they also prayed. And that was also something they did so fluidly. You know, it was just part of who they were. And that's why that is so important to be that example. Yeah. Alright.

0:05:12
You know, so many times, especially when kids are little and, you know, I'm sure you get it. I get it, you know, that keeps us really busy. But so many times, they say, well, I just don't have time. And it's just one of the most important things find time for because we are setting an example for them. And to keep doing it, and as they see that growing up, Even if they walk away, that foundation is there. And they've seen that example. And I'm sure too, they've seen the example of how prayer has worked throughout your life. Yeah. That's it's the foundation that we said, what is prayer to you, Penny?

0:05:57
Prayer is a relationship. I think prayer is so much more than, you know, bringing him our lists although he says bring it to our burdens. Right? That, of course, he's our heavenly daddy. He cares. He wants us to do that. But it's so much more than that. And I think a lot of people get disillusioned because they think, oh, my prayers are not being answered, but there's so much more to it. It's a relationship. It's worship. It's confession. You know, really seeking him in his will.

0:06:38
You know, Jesus taught us to pray in the Lord's prayer. And in my book, I've broken that down into what are the parts? What was he teaching us? Because he said, just before he gave the Lord's prayer, he said, your heavenly father knows what you need before you act. And that is by the way one of my favorite things that I found as a kid. Reading my bible, Elba, myself, I found. Your heavenly father knows what you need before you ask him. Matthew six, eight, I think.

0:07:14
And that just gave me such comfort. And so if he already knows, why do we need to ask? Why do we need to pray? Because it's relationship. It's I think it's more for us to make those requests so that we can see him working is if we don't pray, we don't see it. Yeah. Hundred percent. I mean, how can we ask for something or praise someone if we don't know them? If we don't have that relationship, you know. We feel comfortable in going to those closest to us that know us. I think that is the same thing. That's the basis of prayer as well. And, yeah, I  totally understand that building a relationship, and that's hard for some people. And I know it's hard for me in human terms, you know, opening up. So I also I struggled with that in the beginning. Praying because, you know, I had god said in such a way that he could see all my faults all my sins. All I had done wrong. How could I now go to him as a new person and pray, you know, doesn't he think But, really, you did all of this. I think we kind of boxed God in, you know, into this -- Yeah. -- this thing and we ruin that opportunity to get to know him.

0:08:37
Why is why is prayer important? For us in our daily lives, in our relationships with one another. What's the importance? Well, first of all, he is our creator. And he created a store relationship. And so prayer is relationship with our heavenly father. Mhmm. If you had a friend or a spouse that you never had close time with, you know, sometimes as both as we could be strangers passing in the night. Right? For sure.

0:09:12
We're just so busy with our day to day that we don't go up to dinner and just, you know, mull over a cup of coffee and talk heart to heart. There's a difference between that and just the business of the day. Oh, yeah. And that's what prayer is, it's that talking heart to heart. Yeah, there are different types of prayers. Right? It's that that's what we need to keep in mind and not just focus on asking. And, you know, this is what I need. Can you help me?

0:09:47
I think there are so many different types of prayer, you know, coming on our knees and -- Yeah. -- and in pain and anguish and not having the words to verbalize. To those prayers, we're just so happy. You know, as an example, my dad always says, sometimes I can just sing because that's my prayer. You know? And I found I I've caught myself doing the same thing when I'm so enjoy, and I'm speaking, sometimes the old hymns come back to me, you know, as a baptist. You know, all those hymns we learned as young kids, they come back and the words are spot on. And that's my prayer. What about Now, this is a subject for me that is really close to my heart and that is praying for our children.

0:10:40
My parents prayed for me as a prodigal child. My grandparents prayed for all of us, all the grandchildren over the years. Now, is my turn. I pray for my children. What is that about? What is what does it mean to pray for our children? Such a good question and and good that you asked me because I have experience with them.

0:11:07
my son was addicted to drugs for thirteen years. Mhmm. So I did a bit of praying in that time. You know, I think, of course, we're gonna pray for our children. But I think it's important to keep praying. You know, Jesus said always pray and don't lose heart. And that's giving up. That's getting discouraged when we think our prayers aren't being answered. Mhmm. You can imagine in thirteen years, I was getting discouraged. I was feeling like my prayers. We're hitting the ceiling.

0:11:43
But if I can tell the story a little bit, of course, please during the time that, you know, he had been arrested back and forth out of rehabs getting clean himself trying to, you know, withdraw. I mean, it was a horrible thing to even watch, but he would always end up back on drugs. So this particular time he had been arrested, my daughter asked for prayer in her small group, one of her friends after they get done praying over her for him, said I had a vision while we were praying of angels fighting with swords. And so she shared that with me. And of course, it was at a time when I needed something to hang on too. But I'm not the type to just listen to what somebody says without questioning it and where is it in the world? You know, God. So I did I was like, god, I need that. I I needed that to hold on to, but is this really what's happening? And he showed me some one hundred and three verse twenty and twenty one, where it says that the angels do his bidding and obey his word. Doing each one of his commands. That's not exactly right. But it it just really comforted me because, okay. So maybe angels really are fighting with swords.

0:13:13
So time went on. I kept praying. One day, I was reading my bible and I was reading about the armor of God and Ephesians sick. And I had read it many times before, but you know how sometimes something will just jump out at you that you did notice before. And when I get to verse seventeen, the sword of the spirit, which is the word of God. Well, I had been praying the word of God. I had just gotten to the point where I had no more words. And I just started praying scripture. I would find things that I could turn into prayer for him and that's what I had been doing for quite some time and it all clicked like the sword of the spirit the sword of the spirit is the word of god.

0:14:06
I mean, we don't know what happens in the spiritual realm when we pray. That's why it's so important because things are going on that we can't see. Right? Ephesians six tells us we don't fight against flesh and blood, but rulers and principalities and powers of the dark world and their spiritual war going on. And there is a spiritual war going on for our kids. Wouldn't you say today? There is a spiritual war going on? Hundred percent the power of prayer. Yeah. That is that is the So, you know, I was just reading in Daniel this morning how, you know, the archangel, Michael, was there to him, fighting for him. But he was slowed up. And, there's just so much we don't understand, but we don't have to understand it to do it.

0:14:58
We are told over and over in scripture to pray. And so do we believe that that is really effective? Or are we just gonna say, well, I don't think he answers. Yeah. Wouldn't you wanna just keep praying just in case? You know? Yeah. I agree with you.

0:15:21
You know, I'm asked about answers to prayer, you know. And I pray through faith. You know, I like, you just said, I pray. Believing in my hearts that whatever I pray reaches his ears. Mhmm. I've been through some very scary things. And I know I'm here today. I stand here today because of those prayers around me.

0:15:52
And I believe that when I pray today, god says yes, no, not now, and, you know, later. Yeah. And I think that we're so focused, right, on getting answers right away. That's the generation we're in right now. Quick answers and quick responses to things that we don't really don't wait. We don't have that pray and wait in God's timing.

0:16:25
And I've come to understand that, you know, I as your son, I was the prodigal child in this home, and it was only through my parents, prayers, and those around me that I'm here. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I believe your son too, after after thirteen years stands before you. So he's a pastor now. So that is an answer to prayer. Right? It's above and beyond anything I asked for a lot. Right? It's ephesians through twenty four of us. Yeah.

0:17:02
Listen, praying, you know, God save him and make him a pastor. I was just wanting to get off drugs and that's right. But God has amazing plans for us and your son. We always see it. You know, I see our lives as like a puzzle. Millions of pieces in this puzzle. And God is strategically putting each one in place, and it takes time. Sometimes, this has to happen in order for this to happen. And even my son was recently saying as he looks back, he can see how God was working all kinds of different things in our family and different things in his life. And god was just strategically putting it all together. Yeah. So we don't see it, but We have the trust that we have a heavenly father that knows all, sees all. He's creator. He's got a plan for us. And he's working all things together for good when we're called according to his purpose.

0:18:05
And I think a lot of times that's an important part of prayer that you know, if we're quick praying all the time and not getting to the fervent praying that we're talking about earlier, maybe we're not worshiping Maybe we're not confessing. You know, even maybe sometimes we're reciting the Lord's prayer. Forgive us our debts and trespasses, whichever you say. But are we really being specific? God, I messed up. I'm gonna help me with this. You know, with the temptation, deliver us from evil. You know, Psalm sixty six eighteen says if I cherish sin in my heart, the Lord would not have listened. Well, it's not that he doesn't want to, but we have to come to him being raw and real and open and he wants to forgive our sins. Man.

0:18:59
You know, so many people quote today, second Chronicles seven fourteen, if my people who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face. Then I will hear from Heather. It's all about turning our lives around to follow him. And, you know, that's a matter of being under his protection and his care. It's us that walks away from that. Yep. Exactly. Yeah. And humbling ourselves. That's key as well.

0:19:33
When we come forth, humble yourself in prayer and I struggle sometimes with things that I see or advice that I hear people giving about going into prayer or almost with an arrogance, you know. And, you know, yes, he's our father. Yes, we have many promises in the scriptures that were given to us. And yet, he's our heavenly father. He's the king of kings. And I think we need to approach it with reverence and humbleness. And I don't I struggle with that when when I see that irreverence in prayer. And I mean, I understand to an extent that people are trying to bring prayer into the twenty first century and yet.

0:20:24
Yeah. Yet if we look in the scriptures, king of kings, lord of lords. And we Holy. Holy. That's right. He is the holiest and he's hearing something yesterday, and the person was saying that that holy, holy, holy, you know when God eats something. It that's right. Means something. He said, it's holiness, multiplied. Right? We don't even comprehend that. No. It's beyond our paid grade. We it's way beyond my that brain cells. That's right. Yeah.

0:21:02
My grandmother used say, you know, if we brought something up, that was doctrin or whatever, my grandmother would say, leave me alone. I read my bible. I have this faith. I don't and, you know, I've come to understand that as I've gotten older now, and I see the same thing I don't need all that noise. This is what I have. You know, it's great to have commentaries and books. I mean, you've written books. I've written, and it's great. I love it. I've become a student to learn now. And yet, my first source is always my bible. You know, I question what I read if, you know, I but how do I question unless I know what the bible says? Right? Yeah.

0:21:50
And you and you hit something about prayer and the waiting on answers and generational prayer is all about that as well. And I remember when my grandparents prayed for family members they had never met before in their lives. And but they knew of them. And they would correspond with them. And my grandparents prayed for them. Well, my grandfather had died, oh gosh, maybe a good twenty years, close to twenty years maybe. When my dad went on we went on our first mission trip to Armenia and the very same people that my grandparents had been praying for. Came to know the lord and accepted the lord. And it wasn't us. It wasn't what we said or what we did. It truly came down to those prayers that had been there for generations. You know? So, yeah, I those are important ones. Can you give us some practical tools? For those that maybe are just developing a prayer life or don't know what it means to have a prayer life. Okay.

0:23:16
The first thing that comes to mind is the acrostic that God gave me so the Lord's prayer. When I started writing, god just kinda downloaded this to me. I wasn't setting out to say, okay. God, give me an across the camera. It just was kinda downloaded. It's how the only way I can describe it. But it each letter of the acrostic addresses part of the Lord's prayer.

0:23:44
Because I think so many times, we do recite it, and we're not really understanding -- Right. -- about what we're saying. And it's beautiful. There's nothing wrong with that, but I think it does us well to understand it a little bit more. And when we do, we realize we can use those elements in prayer whether we're reciting the Lord's prayer or just praying on it alone. So the first one is p for being proactive. And this really hits our our our world today, how we're we are so busy and, you know, people will say, well, I pray at the car. Or, you know, we pray on the go and that's wonderful because that's how we pray without ceasing. We do. We have an ongoing conversation with him all day. But there needs to be a time when we do address those things that the Lord used in the Lord's prayer like concession. Like worship -- Right. -- speaking his will, not just asking for our daily bread, you know, So be proactive.

0:24:49
The second one is r for remember his deeds. This is where we worship hallowed be thy name. How can we hell of his name if we don't remember what he's done or if we don't know what he's done. And in the bible and in our lives or maybe even the lives of other people that we know, we can see what the Lord has done. I've just told you about how God worked through my son's addiction. God is good. You know who is holy, but he's also a father. That beyond our comprehension too, how he can be so perfect holy and yet want to dwell in us. It just a love that we will never understand until we get to heaven. But when we remind ourselves We remember who he is. It builds our faith for the rest of prayer. It just shows us what he's able to do right able to do exceedingly abundantly above all we ask, I think.

0:25:57
The next one is a for acknowledge, sin, and ask forgiveness. And of course, that's the forgive us, our god's peace of the Lord's prayer. So important to be able to keep a keep clean slate with him. God, I messed up again yesterday. Would you forgive me again? Help me to avoid this temptation. Deliver me from the evil one who wants to trip me up.

0:26:27
See how we can take the Lord's prayer and just use it in prayer. And of course, and forgive others. And that's that's hard one sometimes. But when we know him and we know his word, we know that those people who have offended us have offended God first. You know, it is against you and you only that I have sinned. Right? So the best thing we can do is pray for those. Is Jesus said, pray for those who persecute you or offend you or, you know, whatever. And it's amazing what that will do in your own heart and what it does in that person who doesn't even know you're praying for them.

0:27:17
Anyway, so that's the a, acknowledge sin, ask forgiveness, and forgive others. The why is he real to his will. And in the book, we talk about God's general will for all of us And we also talk about his specific will for each one of us because he does have a plan for our life. But knowing what the general will is, you know, for us to be saved. Live according to his kingdom and things like that. It's helpful to understand his will.

0:28:00
The next one is e for enjoy his daily bread. And of course, that's the daily bread part. But it goes so much beyond his daily bread, which is really trusting him for our provisions. But might there be more to daily breath than just our needs, our physical needs, It's our spiritual needs because he is the bread of life. So that's what that part goes into. And the r is for rest in him. Once we've prayed, the way Jesus taught us to pray, using the elements he taught us. We will be able to rest when we've reminded ourselves of his goodness and confessed our sins. Any little mess up that we have that we just need to get off our chest, sought his will, given others, we'll be able to rest. We'll be able to trust that he's got it all under control. And that he is working. But it's also part of listening. When we rest in him, we listen to him. So it's not always us talking, but hearing -- Yeah. -- pausing one enough to hear his still small voice. And when we do that, we can rest. We can trust him. That's amazing. Thank you for sharing that.

0:29:36
I think that we should all keep that to acrostic in our in our minds. You've given us an acrostic to use to keep prayer in the forefront. But what about those that are too busy to pray? Or they say they cannot make the time to pray. What's some advice that you might have for them? Mhmm. Think about this. What if we don't. Right? Think about what might need to happen that won't if we don't pray. I mean, he's told us to pray because when we pray, it allows him to do what he wants to do. It rains down god's power in our lives and in our situations.

0:30:31
I don't think we really understand how important and how powerful prayer is. Because we really haven't delved into maybe what we were just talking about all that Jesus was talking about in the Lord's prayer. I just think what if we don't pray? That makes me want to make the time. Because, you know, we make the time for what we want to do. Exactly. We really do. No matter how busy we are. Yeah. You know, can you know, Jesus, when he told the decide went in the garden when he told the disciples to stay there and pray, and he went off and prayed. He came back three times and found them sleeping. And he said to Peter, can you not pray with me one hour? We're not even talking about an hour. Can you take ten minutes? But I don't think that not being able to find the time to pray is really a thing. Yeah. I I agree I agree with you.

0:31:44
And many times, I also feel I I feel very strongly that if we don't spend time in prayer, we are not paired for everything that is thrown at us in life. And, you know, as young mothers or, you know, career wise, We have no time. We don't have time to sit and prayer. But how can we deal with everything that comes our way? Unless we have that foundation -- Yeah. -- of prayer in our life. Right? How can we how can we deal with what is being thrown at us? Even even young people today on social media, and I see this quite often and my advice always is have you spent any time in prayer? Because if you spent time in prayer first, you wouldn't have all that time on social media. Second, you wouldn't take things so personally when you looked at it because you have a broader picture about what life is. And I think that with prayer so much can be affected in our lives and resolved in our lives. And we need to make that prayer life for us.

0:33:02
And I know I when I started off, my prayers were childlike. And I was in my forties, you know, fifty songs. Yeah. And and looking at the beauty of our words. Exactly. But, you know, I had like, you, I had grown up in the church and I had heard these amazing prayers and these words that were said And when I started my prayer life late in life, I struggled with feeling inadequate in the way I prayed. So they were sort of childlike, and I still sometimes laugh at myself because my prayers are very childlike in the verbiage IQs. And it's just but that's my prayer style. And that's how I pray.

0:33:51
And as you said, yes, we pray continually in our mind, in our heart, but it's I find it very different when I sit unplug everything and, you know, go through my prayer list, my and then log who I've prayed for? What are the responses? And  for me, that's also a reminder. To go back and ask people that I've been praying for. Have you had an answer to your prayer? What, you know, can I continue praying for you? Do I change the prayer?

0:34:28
I think prayer just makes us a lot more focused. Yeah. On things around us rather than just our own personal issues. Yeah. And, you know, we think about, you know, what we get from prayer, you know. So often, we're looking for answers, and that's okay. It's just not the only thing we're looking for out of pocket. Exactly. Yeah.

0:34:56
But, you know, talking about prayer preparing you for life and think about the the strength. I mean, I've been through to some things that I could not have have a stamina to keep going if I wasn't praying. So strength and wisdom and peace and comfort, guidance, all those things. How would we want to do life without those things? Jesus said in this world, you're gonna have tribulation. We need to be praying. We can try doing it on our own, but look at the mess we make. Yeah. And look at the mess we make. I know. I'm a prime example of it. I tried life on my own and, wow, what a mess I made, you know? And, yeah, I I'm really true. I'm just so passionate about it. You know, I I just want people to start praying little by little. You know, take me as an example, you know.

0:35:59
Childlike prayers, god hears them all, you know. And some people I'm sometimes, you know, I'm amazed and I love hearing people pray and it's just so poetic and yet I say, Lord, I humbly come to you with my broken prayers, but he knows our heart. Right? I didn't hear he's hearing. Yeah. And and that is just so so powerful. So just yeah. It gives encourage people that are listening, you know. If you have that child like prayer, that's okay. It's child like State that he loves, that is the inner why because it is humble, and it does seek his will. And It just comes. My who are knowing that he knows we can try to find fancy words, but -- Yeah. -- it's only listening to the heart anyway. Amen. And you know, when we start And and we start off that way. But, you know, as we mature in our relationship with the Lord, as our prayer life matures, there is a change in the way because we are more comfortable in his presence. And that's the change I saw in my life. Yeah. The the I felt at ease coming to the lord in prayer and it it just felt as I was coming home. You know, I've left this with the world and I'm home now. And, yeah, I encourage everyone you know, to start one step at a time and do that.

0:37:45
What is an important lesson that you have learned in your journey through prayer, through praying for your children. What's that most important lesson that you can share with us. Well, this sounds simple, but really just do it. Just do it. And it doesn't matter, you know, how child like you come to him. That doesn't matter. I just gave you an acrostic. That is not a formula. It's just to help us all understand the Lord's prayer better.

0:38:20
But you know, whether you use something like that to help you, you know, know what to pray. Or you just come to him rail and raw. He just wants us to come. Yeah. Just do it. Find the time. I know we all can find time. Amen? It's all always something we can rearrange or -- Yeah. You know, ten minutes less on social media or maybe I will go get my nails done this week. Maybe I'll pray instead. Whatever. It it's prioritizing, isn't it? It really is. Yeah. Yeah. I think so. And it's okay if your priorities have been a skew. Just stop where you are and go forward from there. Yeah. What is what is a takeaway? For the listeners today that you wanna leave us with? I again, they're really simple.

0:39:24
Jesus said, always pray and don't lose heart.

0:39:30
Just do it and just keep doing it. That's what I would say. Don't get discouraged. Don't think he's not hearing him or listening. He is working. Mhmm.

0:39:44
Psalm one hundred and thirty eight says, as soon as I pray, you answer me. And it's like it, you know, what I was mentioning earlier about Daniel as soon as he prayed. God set in motion the answer. Did it get a little slowed up in the process? Because there is a spiritual battle going on, but God always wins. Keep praying. Don't lose heart. Yeah. Well, Penny, thank you so much for joining me today and sharing your wisdom and your knowledge with us. Friends, check out the show notes on connecting with Penny Cook. Thank you so much. Thank you for joining me. To stay connected, follow me on Instagram and Facebook. If you like this podcast, can you help me find new listeners by leaving a rating and review. This small step takes only a moment, but really helps grow the listening audience. So let me thank you in advance. I hope you have a wonderful day and until next time. Let's continue on our journey as followers of Jesus Christ. I am Ruth Hovsepian.