Breaking the Silence: Conversations about Sex, Pornography and Healing with BRENDA POARCH

In this episode, we dive deep into the often unspoken subjects of sex, pornography and their impacts on Christians. My special guest, Brenda Poarch, helps us navigate these sensitive topics. We explore societal norms versus God's intention for sex, the dangers of pornography addiction, and the dire need for open dialogues about these subjects within the church. Brenda shares a powerful story about a friend's journey from childhood sexual abuse to healing, shining a light on the crucial role of the church and Christian counseling. 

Join Brenda and me as we break the culture of silence and open a crucial conversation about these private matters, the importance of modesty, the dangers of intimacy outside marriage, and the heart prints it leaves. We also delve into the challenging topic of introducing children to these conversations. 

This episode holds a wealth of wisdom and encouragement for anyone navigating these challenges, particularly victims of sexual abuse. If you're seeking insight into sexual purity and healing from abuse within a Christian context, this video is a must-watch.


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Transcript

0:00:00 - Brenda Poarch
starting back in the 40s and 50s, when my parents and when I was born, you just had certain things you just didn't talk about, and sex was one of them. Uh, in fact, I laughed with a friend of mine who was telling me actually, she's my publisher all the different stories that ladies had told her of what the parents told them before they went on their honeymoon, these young women that were virgins, you know, and one of her favorites was well, honey, just lie there and it'll eventually be over. Yeah, so you know, you know that there's just, there's such a gamut of such a difference in opinions on the subject, but the bottom line is God created it for our pleasure and for reproduction, and it was intended to be between a man and a woman in the bonds of matrimony. 

0:00:48 - Ruth Hovsepian
And Hi, I'm Ruth Hubsap Kim. Welcome to the Out of the Darkness podcast, where we help you navigate life's trials based on faith and biblical truths. Today, my guest is Brenda Porch, a returning guest. We are discussing her book Private Matters and the subject of sex and pornography and how it affects us Christians and the women in our churches. Welcome back, brenda. I am so glad that you're here with us again and I cannot wait to share your wisdom and your knowledge with my listeners and viewers on Out of the Darkness. So welcome, brenda. 

0:01:35 - Brenda Poarch
Well, I appreciate being invited and I really like the title of your podcast, out of the Darkness, because I you know when we think about it. Most sin is done in secret or in darkness. It's not done publicly and we know because our inside, our core, knows that we're doing something wrong. 

And so when you bring light. I love the saying from Martin Luther King that darkness cannot drive out light, but light can drive out darkness, and so I appreciate what you're trying to do and the thing that you've called it. I think that's really neat. Thank you. 

0:02:11 - Ruth Hovsepian
And I wanted to have you back as a guest because we we touched upon this subject of sex and pornography the last time you were on, but you have actually written a book called Private Matters and it is a book about sex for Christian women. And start us off on this very important but little spoken subject by telling us why you thought that this book was needed, because it is a controversial subject and one not spoken about often. 

0:02:45 - Brenda Poarch
It is, and I think that part of it goes back to it can be a little bit embarrassing, and society, especially starting back in the 40s and 50s, when my parents and when I was born, you just had certain things you just didn't talk about, and sex was one of them. In fact, I laughed with a friend of mine who was telling me actually, she's my publisher all the different stories that ladies had told her, what the parents told them before they went on their honeymoon, these young women that were virgins, you know, and one of her favorites was well, honey, just lie there and it'll eventually be over, you know. You know there's just. There's such a gamut, such a difference in opinions on the subject, but the bottom line is God created it for our pleasure and for reproduction and it was intended to be between a man and a woman in the bonds of matrimony, and anything outside of that is not within what God created it to be. 

When it is perverted is when it becomes very, very disturbing, and I had a best friend of 35, 36 years who passed away from diabetes, who was the victim of extreme childhood sexual abuse. Her family was actually in a cult and she was born on her grandmother's birthday to become the shaman on or the leader of the cult, and so her pain test started very early and they had sex with her or sexual acts because they believe that that would redeem them of their sins. That's how they got forgiven of their sins and it broke my friend into over 200 pieces. She had over 200 personalities, higher than civil, and I got to see firsthand her small congregation rise up and take her to counseling and pay for the counseling and the congregation where her very qualified Christian counselor attended. They paid for the other half and she was able to become whole. And when you see God's work in action because this was all through Scripture and the love of God and Christian people when you see that kind of a strain to go from truly broken and shattered into pieces to being completely whole it wasn't easy, it wasn't fast but it happened and I got to see it firsthand. And because of that I heard stories from just a little bit of sexual abuse which you know that's kind of a real story, sexual abuse which you know that's kind of a ridiculous way to say it to horrific sexual abuse from different people, both men and women, and all kinds of stories to go with it. 

And I thought you know Satan is out there every day telling us what we should think and believe when it comes to sex. And even back when, when I was a child, if you wanted to sell something, you use sex. If you wanted to motivate a man, you use sex. That you know, starting with the pent up girls. Going moving forward, somebody clicked into the idea that if you can use that part of the brain and arouse that part of the brain, it stimulates an emotion and emotion cells. And so we're being told daily what it means to have, what kind of sex we should be having, and there was a time when TV would not show anybody ever having sex. 

Desi and Lucy Arnaz were married in real life but were not allowed to share a bed on the television screen. They had twin beds. And if you go back to those shows in the 50s, they all had twin beds, even the ones that had a thousand kids. Don't really know how they did that, but they had twin beds. And now you fast forward to today, where we have thousands of people, even Christians, who are watching and completely wrapped up in these television shows where you're giving out roses and then you get down to the last two people and you're given the sweet and supposedly you're supposed to sleep with them to find out if you're a matronaut. And if we don't start talking about it at church, if we don't break that bond, the only message that is being heard by our young people and by our new babes in Christ and even our more mature babes and cry or mature Christians, is Satan's view. We absolutely must start talking about it. 

0:07:30 - Ruth Hovsepian
I want to talk about two things that I have been noticing, and one of them is that we are not preparing our young people for, you know, at a young age, at an appropriate age, to understand and make their own correct decisions, and with that. 

So the second half of that question or comment is this, and I am careful to use it because a lot of churches are doing this purity ring and purity ceremonies. As a child of the church and as one that grew up in the church, I remember, you know, the purity promises and ceremonies. My concern with that is that we are not teaching our young people what it is that they are remaining pure for. We tell them sex outside of marriage is wrong, they need to be virgins to get married, but there is so much to it than that. How do you advise parents to deal with this subject, which they may be uncomfortable for many different reasons. It could even be because they themselves had a really, you know, bad experience. It doesn't matter what it is. What is your advice on how we can teach our young people in our churches about the sexuality that Christ has given us? 

0:09:10 - Brenda Poarch
I am so glad you asked and, of course, this is the book Private Matters this is the one we've been talking about, and you can get it off my website. I have an entire chapter on talking to kids about sex and it is, in my humble opinion, a very powerful chapter, because we do need to sit down and talk about this with our children, and the message that the book gives, and I want all parents to give, is their value. You are valuable to God, you are valuable to me, and that value, you know I use this kind of a. I do a lot of sarcasm. I'm sure you hadn't noticed, but I you know I say have you ever heard of anyone going down to a store to buy a sofa, a car, a house, and seeing the sticker price and saying, oh, no, no, no, let me pay you 50% more than what you're asking. Let me let me pay you 10% more than that. You know that's not enough. We don't do that. We are going to pay the price asked at best, and so, whatever price you put on yourself, that is the price that you are going to receive, or less. 

And so I, you know, we talk about modesty with the, with the young girls and with the boys, and that my sarcastic used to say to the girls if it ain't for sale, don't advertise it. If you don't want to rent it, if you don't want to loan it out, if you don't want to sell it, don't shake it when you walk, hang it out when you talk or emphasize it Every other way, because it's how we not perceive ourselves, but how we, how we dress when we go out into the world. We are sending a message, and I talk about talking to the kids and explaining All right, so this person is wearing these things and acting these ways. What are they? You know fireman, teacher, doctor, whatever, and the kids are going to nail it every single time. We know what a lady who stands on the street corner, a prostitute, whatever you want to call her lady of the night, how she dresses. 

0:11:29 - Ruth Hovsepian
Well, we used to know that, brenda. We no longer. We no longer can differentiate. 

0:11:35 - Brenda Poarch
But yeah, that's the point. And now I'm seeing young girls as as young as five and six years old wearing clothes, wearing makeup far above their age that I don't believe a grown woman should wear, let alone. You know you're sending that message, and so the biggest takeaway I think the parents need to talk to their kids about is their value. Christ died for you, god loves you and he has put a very high value. You know, the boys in my generation used to say, yeah, but you gotta have sex because we want a test drive. You know, we don't know if we're married. We're gonna test drive it. 

And I said, all right, do this. Go down to a car lot, get a car, tell them you're gonna test drive it, take it home, take the seats out, rip out the radio, change the color of the paint, dent it a little bit here and there, and then take it back and say you know what I've decided? I don't want it. And then what they say? They are not gonna say, okay, that's fine, we'll take it back. Why? Because you've changed it. Sex changes us, whether we want to admit it or not. Sex changes us, and I think that parents, they need to talk to their young women about how they present themselves and the value, the price they put on themselves. And we need to talk to young men about how to perceive that value and to not fall into the trap of being lured by a young girl that seems to be wanting to sell or rent or give away something that is not his to take. 

0:13:09 - Ruth Hovsepian
Yeah, I remember when my kids were young, and you know, I had to somehow give them a story or something to think about the value that they had in themselves, and one of the things that I loved to use at that time was that, for every person that you get physically intimate with, or even emotionally you know now that I understand it even better. So, any time that you become emotionally entangled with someone or physically intimate with someone, and that relationship does not go into marriage, you have now taken a piece of your heart and your being and left it there. Now I do believe that God will make us whole again and give us a new beginning. Having said that, we also, though, are humans, and we will still have the scars. We don't have the wounds, but we have the scars right, and I think that we need to drill this into our young people for them to understand. 

It's not as easy as changing your shoes for an outfit right. It's a deep emotional commitment, and society today has taken out that emotional aspect of sex right. To them, it's just a very physical act, which brings me to the next area that we don't talk about in the church. When we do, typically it's for the boys or the men, and that is porn. And with that comes another subject that is very touchy for parents to talk about, and that is masturbation. How do we address these subjects, brenda? Because these are uncomfortable ones. You and I talk about it because we're at a different place in our lives and we are comfortable with it, but many parents are very uncomfortable. Even the church as a group is very uncomfortable to talk about these two things. What do we do? What do you say? 

0:15:28 - Brenda Poarch
Well, I think the first step has got to be admitting that there's a problem and that it does happen, even in our churches, and there's not been a clear link that I'm aware of between pedophilia and porn. But there is a huge bank, a resource of child porn that feeds both the adult satisfaction or appetite and also the ones for the children, and I think what we need to talk about with that is that there's actual a chemical brain change when you become addicted to porn. It has been compared to a cocaine addiction and it's not something that you're just going to lay down and walk away from. And unfortunately it is too easy to come by these days. In our day, the boys had to find a magazine somewhere and slide it under their mattress, or what have you, in order to have that resource. 

Today I'll tell you a funny story. I was looking for a piece of sports equipment and I had gone to several different academy sports and several different ones and Walmart and I decided I was going to look under for at Dick's Sporting Goods and I just put in the word Dick's, you know. And yeah, when this was like 20 years ago, when the picture came up, I was like completely shocked and mortified and I couldn't get it off. And I'm looking around to see if my kids saw what was going on, because it never dawned on me that it would be that easy. You know that was back a long time. You know that was back dial up, aol and all that. And at that point I realized, wow, you know that is. 

It also destroys marriages, because it's scientifically proven that once a man or a woman has become, you know, involved in that, that real life partners are no longer satisfying because this is a fantasy world that you're looking at, and then you can't get your. You're no longer drawn to the real, legitimate thing. And you know Scripture talks about in the old days. It said don't commit adultery. And. 

but Jesus says if you look at a woman and you lust, you've committed adultery in your own heart, and so the bar has been set very high, and we've we've got to talk about it, because that's one of those sins that I don't believe I've ever heard of someone coming forward in church or publicly announcing that they have that problem. There are several, but that's that's definitely one of them, and so there are resources out there that can help people that are addicted to porn, but they're not going to avail themselves of those resources, or maybe be aware of those resources, unless we talk about it. 

0:18:43 - Ruth Hovsepian
Yeah, I, you know, I I can relate to the confession of sin about, you know, around pornography and sex, because I remember, you know, eight years ago, or you know a little bit longer than that, when I started my journey of sobriety from, you know, the addiction to sex and porn, I didn't know who to turn to, brenda, because, you know, as a pastor's daughter, as someone who had grown up in the church, I I didn't know who to go to. First of all, it was the shame and the burden of being this person and having this addiction. Secondly, I knew what a disaster that would be to my family and I knew that how would they be able to cope with this and help and what would other people say of my father? So I unfortunately had this journey that I took for, about, you know, five years, you know, on and off on my own, and it was a difficult one. And today I I'm a great proponent of speaking up, confessing to the right people about this. And, yes, you know, I am sober now, eight years, and that is only by the grace of God that I am and I thank him for it every day, because everything that you said about this addiction I can vouch for and speak for firsthand. You know what it does to you and I have compared porn addiction and everything that goes with it to being addicted to drugs, because it rewires your brain in the way you react to things. 

I want women because we have the resources for men and we speak about it a lot more openly, about it, about women and young girls, and they're starting so much younger to down this path of addiction and losing all inhibitions because sex is so prevalent in everything. 

As you said, brenda, you know when we first started this conversation that sex is so prevalent in our lives that there is no more clean line to say. Now you've passed, you know what you should or should not be doing. So I appreciate what you're saying and I think that we need to have these difficult conversations in our churches and help those around us with it. You know whether it's bringing someone in to educate us, to train us, or going for training. I know I'm going through pure desires training for leaders, because even with my own experience, I still want to have that training to talk to people and, you know, help other people. I don't know. This is a conversation you know, brenda that is very difficult to have you know how do we shake awake the church and the church leaders in this subject to make them aware of this need. 

0:22:24 - Brenda Poarch
Well, I started out by writing the book Private Matters, and in the book it covers sex in Scripture, which a lot of people are not really familiar with. How many verses and laws there were about sex in Scripture? One of the ones when I was researching for the book that really surprised me was if a man decided he didn't like his wife and he accused her of not being a virgin when they married, that he could go to the parents of this woman and accuse her of that, and if they could bring out the proof cloth or the bride cloth, then he was to be stoned. But if they could not, she was going to be stoned, and so I'm sorry I got that wrong. She would be stoned if they couldn't provide it. If they did provide it, he could never divorce her. Thank you, and I thought is that a reward for the woman being married to this guy? But then you have to remember back in that day women couldn't do anything on their own. 

And we look at porn, we look at sexual abuse, we look at pornography, we look at adultery, fornication, all of those topics, and it's done in a way that it's genteel enough that you can discuss it in a Sunday morning class, but it is bold enough that you're going to get to the root of the problem. And I think we as Christians often say that God does not label sin, it's not in categories. All sin separates us from God. But we do that. We do that If someone comes forward and they're asking for prayers because maybe they've stolen something or they've lied or they haven't come to church like they should, everybody's going to be all about it. But if you let somebody come forward and they say I've had an affair, then it's going to be a totally different reaction and we've got to stop that. We need to stop that. 

And, like I said, I really think it all goes back to being willing to have that conversation and talk, because the more I talk to women, the more I see we all have some kind of story, we have some kind of experience with this in all different varieties and forms. You talked about society making it so much more acceptable these days. But if that's the case, society. Why do you still call the morning after the walk of shame? That tells us a lot right there. And what I also like to tell these young people is that there is something really special about meeting your spouse's ex-boyfriend or girlfriend and knowing that you've had a relationship with them and experience with them that these other people have never had, because both of you were pure when you got married. And that eliminates a lot of that jealousy because, yeah, you dated him, but I haven't. God gave him to me, he's mine. 

0:25:51 - Ruth Hovsepian
I don't think a lot of young people think about that that meeting someone from your past and if you've had that intimate relationship, that sexual relationship, how does that make you feel, or your wife or your husband feel at that moment? And I think that's the baggage I talk about, because that is there, it's part of who you are and, yes, you are forgiven I always say this but you also have this memory bank that cannot be erased. There are triggers to it and we need to be very aware of this as we go into marriage and into relationships. And I know you mentioned that example of trying something out before you buy it. And it's interesting about that because I hear that a lot from young people and heard it as well when I was young about how can you have only one sexual partner, what happens if you are not compatible and all the reasons and excuses that they can think of. And one of my responses has been to young people about that is, if you have only had your husband as a partner, you don't know what you're missing or what is out there. You appreciate everything about your husband or your wife, depending on who I'm speaking to. So there isn't this thing of, oh, I don't know if he's a fit for me or not, and I think society has failed young people as well and everyone forgetting the age, but all of us by saying that sex is this two people come together, two strangers come together and have this amazing sexual encounter. 

What about those that don't? Because more often than not, you're not going to have that. How awkward. Two people who don't know each other come together and have this sexual act, but they don't know each other how to please each other. What are the triggers that person has? And as a married couple, you may start off very tentatively, but over the years it becomes sweeter and more beautiful, because you know the other person's desires and likes and dislikes, and it becomes even oh goodness, it's just a more beautiful experience. God has created us in such a beautiful fashion that we need to pass this on to our younger generations. 

0:29:00 - Brenda Poarch
Yes, and before we leave this topic, I want to point out this is also covered in the book when sex is not possible. If you have a relationship that is based on sex, you got married because the two of you lit up fireworks in the bedroom. What happens when that is no longer possible? Your husband is in the military and he's sent away, or on a job and he's sent away, or during your time of the month or doing your pregnancy, when the doctor tells you at some point, don't do that. I had cancer. I've had cancer twice and I did six months of chemotherapy. 

And let me tell you something when your hair is falling out and your best friend is the toilet bowl, you could care less about sex. And if you don't have a husband who knows how to control himself, then you may have a problem. And that learning to control our own bodies is so critical. And if you learn that in the early stages, while you're dating, but while you're a virgin and you are able to control yourself, there is going to be less temptation for you. You gain that skill, and so when that man flirts with you at the office or that neighbor down the street starts complimenting you and your husband is not home, you know how to control yourself and that control is necessary to be pleasing to God. And so I've seen so many couples that as they travel through life together, there will come a time sometimes it's a short-lived time and sometimes it's a long time where sex cannot be the typical definition of sex, and I think there's a difference between sex and intimacy. You still have that intimacy. When I was sick with cancer and I was bald, my husband used to just hold me and that was the most beautiful connection to just to lay my terrible and gray face, bald head on his shoulder and just have him hold me. That in some ways was better than fireworks, because that showed true love and true dedication. And so there are so many pluses to waiting until you get married. 

But I've got one more thing to say. I've got so much to say on the topic. I'm sorry, but I really feel very strongly about girls especially boys too, but girls especially who were the victim of sexual childhood abuse and they become of age and they feel that they are no longer a virgin and so all of that beautiful, pure stuff about virgin doesn't apply to them. Their value has gone way down because their body has been repeatedly used in ways that most of us would have nightmares over. I would like to contradict that, to disagree with that, to say, when you physically give yourself to someone in sex, it's a completely different situation. 

I've talked to women who were raped, who were sexually abused, and they speak of literally taking their minds and going somewhere else. Their body is not there, but their spirit has left. It is not there, their mind is not there, their emotions are not there, and so your body may physically not be a virgin, but if you have been sexually abused let me say it now you are just as valuable as any other woman because you are a virgin, you are an emotional and you are a spiritual virgin. If you've had sex and you've decided to come to the Lord, as you have, or you wanna get right with the Lord, god can wash you, clean, you can start anew. 

Your value can be restored. And my example of the car that car can be fixed and it can be repaired and, like you said, you're still gonna have those scars. You might be able to see a weld underneath here or a little scratch here or there, but you can be restored because God doesn't leave scratches or welds. When he restores you, he restores all of you, and so that's. The good news is that, no matter where you are on this journey in your sexual life, god has an answer for you, and God has a way to bless you. 

0:33:45 - Ruth Hovsepian
I think I'm gonna end it right here, because those words of reassurance of our Savior's love and the healing power of his love and grace is the best way to end it. And, brenda, I wanna thank you so much for joining me again today and sharing your wisdom and your knowledge with my Out of the Darkness audience and to my friends who are listening today please get your hands on Private Matters. It's an amazing book. I really enjoyed reading it and please check out the show notes on how to connect with Brenda Porch and please subscribe and share to grow our community. Thank you so much, brenda. 

0:34:35 - Brenda Poarch
You're welcome. Thank you for bringing this topic to light and giving a format for us to talk about it. My ministry does include everything that you're talking about, but where the heart of the ministry is and my website just came up. It's not fully functional yet, but it's getting there. You can still get a book but a lot of the other things, but we are gonna be targeting adult survivors of childhood abuse and sexual abuse is a huge portion of that, and so we believe that, as children, there's help through foster care. As adult women, there's help throughout her shelters, but there are so many women out there that did not. I mean, I have a women's ministry. Men need this help too, but there's so many women out there that need that support, and what they get is people will look at them and say that was 20 years ago. When are you gonna stop blaming your parents for your problems? Well, if you didn't get what you needed as a child, then you're not gonna magically be whole as an adult, but with God, all things truly are possible. 

0:35:43 - Ruth Hovsepian
Thank you so much, brenda. Thank you. 

0:35:46 - Brenda Poarch
Ruth ["The. 

0:35:48 - Ruth Hovsepian
Star-Spangled Banner"]. Thank you for joining me. To stay connected, Follow me on Instagram and Facebook. If you like this podcast, can you help me find new listeners by leaving a rating and review? This small step takes only a moment, but really helps grow the listening audience. So let me thank you in advance. I hope you have a wonderful day and until next time let's continue on our journey as followers of Jesus Christ. I am Ruth Huffseppian.