02 Qtopia Queer Museum - SYDNEY, NSW

We visit Qtopia, Australia's first Queer museum - just in time for World Pride '23! We chat with CEO Greg Fisher about the activism, determination, and compassion that has shaped the vibrant and resilient Queer community over the years. 

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Transcript

Greg: 0:00

It's a very stark place. If you go there, you think, have I come all this way to look at a bed? And the answer is, yes, you have. And guess what? That's all they looked at.

Kate: 0:41

I'm so excited for this episode. It's not every day that we visit a brand new museum, but that's exactly what we're doing today. Qtopia Queer Museum in Sydney is so new that it was set to open its doors the very next day after my visit. The museum features two exhibits, both in Darlinghurst. One is at the bandstand in Green Park opposite St. Vincent's Hospital, and the other is a recreation of Ward 17 South, which was originally in St. Vincent's Hospital, but the recreation is down the road at the National Art School. In this episode, we have a conversation with Greg Fisher, CEO of the museum, and delve into the reasons why Sydney's response to AIDS was considered to be among the most effective in the world. We also discuss the resilience and support of the Queer community during this challenging time and reminisce on the old Campy days of Kings Cross. Please note that this episode does touch on sensitive topics such as HIV and AIDS, as well as anti-gay sentiment and that this may be triggering for some listeners. I'm at the Qtopia Museum today with Greg Fisher. Greg, how are you today??

Greg: 1:53

I'm very well, thanks. How are you?

Kate: 1:54

Good, thank you. And Greg, whose country are we on

Greg: 1:56

Well, today we meet on the land of the Gadigal people of the Eora nation. And I'd like to pay my respects to the Elders past and present and those who are emerging.

Kate: 2:06

Tell me about Qtopia. I believe this has been a long time coming.

Greg: 2:10

Well, we've been working on this iteration of a Queer museum for the last two years. The idea of having a Queer museum is not new. In fact I looked at it over 20 years ago and I know that many other people have looked at it various times between then and now. So yeah, it has been a long time in the making.

Kate: 2:28

So why now? What's happened over the last 20 years between then and launching it now?

Greg: 2:33

Well, I, I had the idea to do it 20 odd years ago, but didn't do it. I did other things and this particular iteration was not my idea. I was brought in to help make it happen. What has happened between then and now has been a maturing of, of the Queer community. I think that there's been a maturing of the wider community as well. There's been laws passed in terms of equality, particularly marriage equality is something that we all know about. There's been lesser known laws passed in terms of discrimination or antidiscrimination in the workplace. There's been laws passed, you know, simple things like superannuation between partners and all sorts of things like that. Which are actually, and I don't like to use normalized, but it has, what it does do is, is create a level playing field, I guess for all people to participate. The idea now of doing a Queer museum is to get the stories of the past told so that people who are today dealing with their identity whether it be sexual or gender, have a safe place to come to, to learn from the past and understand, and also a place where they can bring loved ones, family, friends, school mates, corporate mates, whatever, to get them to understand and accept and participate.

Kate: 3:48

And who's involved in the museum and the curation of these exhibits?

Greg: 3:52

In terms of who is involved, we have a board of management and we have two patrons, Michael Kirby and Ita Buttrose. Two phenomenal Australians who have done so much for the Queer community in particular with respect to AIDS over decades.

Kate: 4:06

The glamorous Ita Buttrose is a prominent media executive and current chair of the ABC. In the early eighties she was the Editor-in-Chief of the Daily and Sunday Telegraph newspapers when AIDS arrived in Australia. She was appointed chairperson of the National Advisory Committee on AIDS in 1984 to lead the national HIV AIDS public health education campaign. One of her noteworthy contributions was promoting transparent messaging about the disease, such as dispelling the misconception that donating blood could lead to contracting AIDS. The Honorable Michael Kirby, a well-known human rights advocate, and former justice of the high court of Australia, has been openly gay since 1984. He's utilized his platform to champion gay rights and mobilize the gay community towards collective action. After retiring from the high court in 2009, he assumed the position of Patron at the Kirby Institute, a Global Health Research Institute based in U N S W. the Institute focuses on eradicating infectious diseases, worldwide.

Greg: 5:14

And then in terms of putting together the two inaugural exhibitions we've got Dr. Liz Bradshaw doing the recreation of Ward 17 South from St. Vincent's Hospital. And that's being done at Building 11 at the National Arts School. And we also have a exhibition at the Bandstand, and that's being undertaken by curator Jackie North.

Kate: 5:35

What's the relevance of the bandstand as a location?

Greg: 5:39

Okay. Two things. Number one, we took the bandstand because we wanted to get going... and the Bandstand was a vacant site, and the council, Sydney city council, who had been incredibly supportive, offered it to us and we said, yes, please. Because if you don't start, you don't start. And so we made the decision that as, as modest as that building is uh, to start a lot of museums that are big today started small. And we will continue to advocate and agitate for the building we want, which is of course the old Darlinghurst Police Station. Why is the bandstand actually of great relevance? It's because it sits geographically fantastically in the midst of the history of the Queer community. And geographically, if you look north, you look towards like Les Girls, Kings Cross, and the Underground- at one point illegal gay nightclub, from which people were arrested and then bashed at the Old Darlinghurst police station by the police. If you look east, you're looking at the St. Vincent's Hospital, which of course had Ward 17 South, and its history with respect to HIV and AIDS. If you're looking south, you're looking towards Oxford Street and all the excitement and all the campness inside and all the demonstrations and the celebrations over time. And then of course, if you look west, you're looking straight across the road to the wall of the National Arts School. Known as The Wall, which for a long period of time was a pickup place for gay men after the different clubs had closed, and then it became a beat and all sorts of things. So it's got a real history attached to it as well.

Kate: 7:09

So it's quite serendipitous that you are able to grab that place for one of the exhibits.

Greg: 7:13

It, it truly is it, and you're right. And we did grab it. And also it sits beautifully next to the National Arts School opposite the Sydney Jewish Museum, and in and amongst everything that I guess Qtopia, Sydney is there to represent.

Kate: 7:29

So the other exhibit is a recreation of Ward 17 at the National Art School. Yes. Can you tell me a little bit about Ward 17 and more broadly speaking AIDS in Sydney and how that was managed?

Greg: 7:42

Of course. So, I mean, it's a very big question. HIV AIDS was of course first found or discovered in the early eighties. And at that time Sydney had a very large gay community and a very proud gay community. When the first diagnosis was which was 40 years ago next year Professor David Cooper was actually over in the States and he is an immunologist and he realized that, wow, this is actually gonna be a very big thing. So he came back to Australia, to work with St. Vincent's Hospital and the Kirby Institute-it was a different name back then- to work out how to respond. And it became known as the Sydney response and the work that was undertaken by the doctors there to support people who went very quickly then from HIV to AIDS and to do all the research and so on, was phenomenal. They also apart from treating, undertook all of these tests, so is it to create over time vaccines or effectively vaccines or treatments so that people today who have HIV will not progress to AIDS and will live effectively a normal life. And those who do not have HIV do not need to get it. There's effectively a block now available. So so over the time, the Sydney response was the medical fraternity, the legal fraternity, the patients, the church and the community, and the wider community responding in a way that saw medical advancement and social care growing side by side.

Kate: 9:15

This became a model known as peer-based service delivery. In a personal essay titled"Through My Eyes", Bill Patterson, a nurse from Ward 17 South, recounts how gay men and lesbians collaborated to provide healthcare services to their peers, including nursing, social work, physiotherapy, counseling, and other forms of support. This approach was instrumental in unifying the Queer community and advocating for improved healthcare policies and treatment.

Greg: 9:44

And it needed to because the discrimination at the time against gay people was already significant. And the advent of a killer disease from gay people justified the discrimination. And so it called upon people of great note, particularly Ita Buttrose, who headed up various campaigns and, and others to come on board and to challenge the discrimination and to help foster understanding and goodwill and care for people, who were either doing it tough or dying.

Kate: 10:14

Just take for example, a media frenzy that erupted in 1984, After four infants in Queensland were discovered to have contracted HIV through a blood donation from a HIV positive man, unbeknownst to the donor. During this period, the media and various commentators spread panic and misinformation, making it essential to launch responsible public health campaigns that provided clear science-based facts. These campaigns were critical in reducing stigma and promoting better health outcomes.

Greg: 10:47

And Ward 17 South was effectively grabbed by the nuns, the Sisters of Charity, who said there has to be a ward specifically for these men. And they also said, as did the doctors, that nobody will die alone. And they stuck by that. And you can imagine that there was a lot of shame for people who found out that they had AIDS. They were told when they came in, tell one person only, don't tell too many people, their families didn't want to come. They're either ashamed or too scared. And so, there was that abandonment and fear surrounding people who had HIV and progressed uh, to AIDS. They were sick people, but the community responded with humanity and celebration, and there was this incredible feeling back then. I might, and I am old enough to remember that if we are going to die, we'll die dancing. And so Mardi Gras in fact, got bigger during that period, and this was also part of the Sydney response. Whereas other places around the world, people were actually going underground and going, oh my goodness, oh my goodness. In Australia, particularly in Sydney, we were saying, well, no, we're not going to do that. We're gonna live until we die. And the rest of the community said, we'll come. And so people who were very sick in wheelchairs with, with their drips and everything were taken up to the Albury Hotel where there were people dancing and so on. Or, or Sydney, gay lesbian choir or opera singer or a drag queen will come to Ward 17 South and perform and, and lighten people's lives up. And then we have some beautiful images around that. Some beautiful imagery, for example, around Easter where, you know, some drag queens came dressed as Easter bunnies and so, and, and brought that jovial spirit into the ward. So it was a place of sadness, horror, fear, but deep humanity.

Kate: 12:34

That seems very characteristic of the Queer community and their unbridled joy and celebration and, and just love that they give anyone and everyone.

Greg: 12:44

I think that's true. And I think that the other thing that it, it tells about the Queer community is courage and determination. Determination not to be put down. Determination to survive. Determination to flourish, hope for a better future, hope for greater inclusivity, and a willingness to work hard for it, and not to be bitter and twisted, but definitely forceful and, and clear in what it is that we're always seeking to achieve.

Kate: 13:12

What's your favorite part of the museum?

Greg: 13:15

That's a very good question. I mean, we have two very different parts of our exhibition. One is Ward 17 South, which has a level of solemnity and maturity, and on the other side we have the Bandstand, which is really looking at celebrating who fought for our rights, the history and activism of Mardi Gras since 1978. The old glamor and excitement of Oxford Street. We have an ode to the old Sydney Queer nightlife. We have a little disco there, with videos and so on historical photos, showcasing art, fetish, rudeness, culture, all sorts of things. So, huge differences you know, in, in what it is that we have. But in terms, if I look at at the end of the day, people go to a museum because they want to be enlightened and informed. And yes, there's certainly a lot of enlightenment and information surrounding what we have at the Bandstand, but I think people live in that environment or have lived in that environment. It has been a long time since we had AIDS. And I think that a lot of people either have forgotten about it or don't think it belongs to them anymore too, too too young to even know about it. So it was important to revisit it and it was important to understand what grew from it, such as vaccines for COVID and so on. And to understand what the sacrifices actually were. So to answer your question my favorite is definitely Ward 17 South. And within it we have captured about 30 or 40 hours of video from a range of people who were there at the time, some of whom are still with us, survivors of AIDS, carers, doctors, nurses the Sisters of Charity, community members, politicians. And that has been put into a beautiful package of video that is up inside the ward 17 South. It's a very stark place. It's really, if you go there, you think, have I come all this way to look at a bed? And the answer is, yes, you have. And guess what? That's all they looked at. And therefore, what surrounds the bed is information on the wall, timelines. What, who was actually involved in the response and how did it work? And the video presentation, which brings to life that whole era, and brings to life the starkness of that bed.

Kate: 15:26

Is there a plan to have that video available in another place or just in the museum at this stage?

Greg: 15:31

Gosh, you ask good questions. The answer is I'm pushing very hard to tour that Uh, exhibition because it's important, particularly when you think that next year's the 40th anniversary of the first diagnosis. It is, it's a really important one. It goes right to the heart of discrimination and right to the heart of caring and empathy and understanding and love and everything. And I do believe it's something really worthy of touring. I don't think it's gonna be a hard one to tour because, there's not that much in it. And I think it's something that I would like to see go around to the regional areas and, and beyond. It is an Australian story. It's not just a Sydney centric story. And there's been a lot of exhibitions over the years about AIDS, And I'm saying this one's the best.

Kate: 16:13

You're not biased at all though. I am. I am biased.

Greg: 16:17

I'm definitely biased, but I also you know, I, I don't say that everything we've done is perfect and, and we are certainly a long way, a long way from being able to say we've got it all. And one thing about us is we do not believe that we are the owners of knowledge or the owners of history. We are the funnel and we want people from everywhere, historians and general public who knows stories to bring them here so that the museum should evolve over time. And I'd like to see it evolve and grow into an even wider greater story. So as we memorialize what has happened, we do so with the utmost and the highest level of knowledge.

Kate: 16:56

So let's talk about that Queer history of Sydney. You said the bandstand features a bit of a history of the Mardi Gras and the 78ers, could you tell us a little bit about that?

Greg: 17:05

Well, how it's changed over time has really been from underground and secret to open and celebratory, and it's always been celebratory but it's gone from being, you know, illegal and underground to being legal and above ground. That's a broad sense what's happened over time. What I think has also happened being 57 years of age, which might, might as well say I'm a hundred is, I think in a sense that I might be old in saying this, that we've lost a little bit of the real campness that I remember at The Albury, where on one side, you know, the, on the Sunday afternoon would be, people on the piano and everyone around it singing. And on the other side would be men with their shirts off dancing on the bar. And and it was pumping and it was, you know, really hot and heavy and it was camp and it was loud and it was flirtatious and all that. And I love that so much. And that really arose out of the fabulous things from the Cross, which was like Les Girls and The Rex and other places there. Nowadays, you know, you have drag shows and so on, but it is not as high camp and the, and the clientele is not as high camp, in my opinion, is what it was. Having said that there's different forms of, of fun. Back then people were not as, a fierce and fabulous body-wise, body image-wise as they are now. So it's sort of gone from, camp and fun to I guess really, you know, body image and Gorgeous.

Kate: 18:18

why is it important that we have a Queer museum and why should people come and visit it?

Greg: 18:23

The reason for the need to have a Queer museum at the end of the day goes to identity. Identity and inclusivity are words too readily banded about. There would not be a corporate social responsibility charter that does not have the words inclusivity and identity, yet very few people know what it truly means. People do not know the pain associated sometimes with dealing with one's identity, with dealing with it for themselves and with explaining it to others and to finding their place in life. we see football clubs that, some of which object to having a little rainbow flag on their jersey. I don't blame them for that. I say that was too early. I think that what is more important than worrying about that is having people educated, having the ability for footballers to come in and to learn when what we talking about gay people. You've got Ian Roberts, who was a footballer himself on our board. You know, at the end of the day, the footballers at the time didn't give us stuff if he was gay or not. He was the best footballer on the field. And you know, it, it, it needs to get back to a point where, or to a point where people just understand that people are people, whether they're gay, straight, trans, whatever intersex, bisexual or an ally. That people are simply people and that people shouldn't fear difference. And so the reason for having a Queer museum is to say to the world, well, this is Us. This is our history. This is our contribution to the wider community. This is where we fit in. We're not a a sideshow. We're part of the fabric of the community, and this is our story. I'm Jewish as well, and so the Sydney Jewish Museum is exactly the same. I'm Jewish. The people who are portrayed in that museum, a lot of whom of course came from the Holocaust, but, you know, what was their contribution to the Australian life? You know, how are they similar? How are they different? Why are their customs different? Why should they not be feared? Now doesn't that sound exactly the same as what I'm saying in terms of a Queer museum or an indigenous museum or a Muslim museum? And if you're looking around at different small museums and affinity groups, this is exactly the same, regardless of the affinity group. Everybody is looking to have their identity understood and respected.

Kate: 20:45

What does Qtopia mean to you?

Greg: 20:47

It means a lot, it means a great deal. My own personal history is I was once married. I have a, a daughter who is turning 30 this year who I'm extremely proud of. And we have a very close relationship. I have a very close relationship with my ex-wife, Michelle. I have a very close relationship with her mother, Susie. Last August I was married to a Kenyan-born man, Billy.

Kate: 21:10

Congratulations.

Greg: 21:11

Thank you. And my ex-wife, my daughter and my ex-mother-in-law were all there. In fact, our, my daughter went and became a celebrant so that she could marry us. It was a beautiful ceremony. What this museum means to me is an acknowledgement of who I am as a man in a way that I could not represent myself truthfully, many years ago. When I was in my twenties, there was no possibility that a Jewish middle class boy could go and be outwardly gay. I mean, it just would be, especially with a family like I had, which was high profile in the Jewish community. It was just an absurd thought. And so I, I put my head around that and decided, well, I did want to get married and I did want the traditions that I grew up with, and I did want children and so on, and I, and I genuinely had five very happy years. But I knew at the age of 30, cause I'm married young, that it wasn't for me. I couldn't sustain it. I couldn't remain honest or truthful and that that's just not what I wanted to do. So I had to deal with my identity and I had to get people to come and understand who I am and why I still matter. And I think that it was tough. It was very tough because there was no support. And it took a long time and it put me through bouts of unbelievable depression, suicide thoughts and so on. It also l led me right off the garden path to drug dealing and drug taking and so on in jail and everything. So I have really, truly been to the top of life, the bottom lo life and back again. And in that journey, what has absolutely been true to me all the way is the need for me to be honest about my identity and to say to people, none of us are perfect. None of us can say we've never either made a mistake or a bad decision and a wrong decision. But everybody has the right, the need to consider who they are in this world because we're not here for a very long time and for the period that we are here, we should be absolutely true to ourselves and be confident and comfortable with that. So Qtopia Sydney is that. The other part of Qtopia Sydney is that it will forever have a memorial to the HIV AIDS period. And as somebody who lived through that time, who lost friends to AIDS and by the grace of God was not a victim himself, I believe very strongly that that is something that should be memorialized and celebrated. Acknowledged for what it was at the time. Acknowledged for the contribution it has today to modern science and modern medicine and above all be a recognition of humanity and the ability for people to actually love each other against all odds. And against all fear and against all discrimination. So for me, Qtopia Sydney is deeply personal. When I was invited to participate and to advise to it originally and then to become its CEO, I could not have been more delighted and more determined to take this position.

Kate: 24:13

So Greg, should we go and look at Ward 17 now?

Greg: 24:16

With pleasure. So where we are now is at the entrance of Ward 17 South Exhibition and before people walk in what we do is to, advise people that there is material that can be confronting. And we also have provided some phone numbers. And straight over here is about Ward 17 South artist and curatorial statement. It explains how the ward came about from the Sisters of Charity, uh what it was being a place of tremendous pain and grief and loss, but also of great activism and humanity. And it also talks about what happened here in terms of the stigma, the mainstream misrepresentation and, and all, all that pain and anguish, abandonment and so on that people went through at the time. And at the end of the day, the amount of humanitarian love and support that was actually shown at that time. Then we then walk into the exhibition itself. And so you can see the timeline. that There have been, been timelines done by a number of different museums over time. And we have we've called upon those and we've, we've sourced them and we've noted them.

Kate: 25:25

The timeline shows that at the same time AIDS was identified and named in the early 1980s, Australian states and territories had only just begun to decriminalize male homosexual acts. In 1982, the first case of AIDS was detected in Australia. And Ward 17 South in St. Vincent's Hospital was designated to treat HIV patients, initially with 12 beds. Professor Ron Penny and immunologist Professor David Cooper were at the forefront of HIV research and clinical trials. By 1987, approximately 50% of all HIV AIDS patients in Australia had received treatment at St. Vincent's. In 1989, Ward 17 South expanded to 18 beds, which still proved insufficient to meet demand. Therefore, in 1993, planning commenced for 24 bed ward. As time progressed, the government response differed between countries. In the uk, the conservative government passed a law that prohibited local authorities from quote, promoting homosexuality unquote or funding activities that did so. This had a detrimental impact on HIV AIDS awareness and education. Conversely, Australia made gradual strides towards positive change. This included allowing condom advertising on late night tv, introducing Condom man, a superhero figure that promoted the use of condoms and more. By 2007, prep treatment had proven to be very effective, and as a result, Ward 17 South was decommissioned. Prep stands for pre-exposure prophylaxis and is an oral prescription drug for HIV negative people, and it lowers the risk of catching hiv. St. Vincent's Hospital continues to offer treatment for people with HIV and remains a globally recognized institution for hiv aids clinical care and research.

Greg: 27:20

This is a very comprehensive timeline and it has been beautifully put together whilst it has a lot of information, you're not drowning in it. And if you go through the years and, and depending on what age you are, you'll be able to remember certain things or you've heard other people talk about certain times and you go, aha. Right. That's interesting. That's actually was in my lifetime or that part was in my parents' lifetime. It wasn't 300 years ago. And then we also have a, a detail of where is HIV today, where is it? And how many people living with HIV? How is it transmitted and has it gone? And the answer is AIDS has not gone. We are very fortunate in a developed country that AIDS is, is pretty much gone and HIV is transmission is almost nonexistent now almost. But, and even if you get HIV it's not a death sentence Anymore. But AIDS is still very prevalent, particularly in the African countries. One of our board members Robin Kennedy, has been a fighter, you know, since back in the early seventies for gay rights, she's still nearly every year over in Africa and around the world pushing for more funding and more support. Knowing that AIDS is not over yet, and knowing how lucky we are in Australia, to have had the response that we had, which is identified here in this very room.

Kate: 28:39

Turning away from the timeline, you'll find yourself standing in the heart of the exhibit where you are immediately struck by the starkness of the surroundings. Put simply, it's a simple hospital ward, complete with a bed, IV drip, and a small tv. As you look up, you'll notice an original ward door adorned with a crucifix, a nice reminder of the Sisters of Charities influence. Glancing at the tv, you can see that it's playing video footage on a loop.

Greg: 29:06

It goes for a total of 46 minutes. Part of it, now is silent being different, photos and so on. And then it goes into actual presentations by different people. Sort of takes you through all of that. that And then the exhibition itself is stark. It is, it's very stark and is almost hauntingly stark. And you almost sort of think, have I come all this way to look at what looks a hospital ward, and guess what? That is exactly what it is. And if you could imagine people who were dying, very sick, scared, abandoned, alone, who came here and this is what they saw, a bed, a light, some drips and uh a station above the bed, you know, into which all the tubes and everything were going. That's all it was. That was the life. So from that had to be built Community and care. And so just from that very stark bed. So it is deliberately stark with a lot of information around on the wall. As we leave the exhibition when we exit what we wanted to do is to make sure that it was a safe exit for people in case people have been traumatized or built that, and in any way triggered. Yeah, there's some information about some really prominent organizations, the Bobby Goldsmith Foundation and acon, as well as some background on the Kirby Institute. And of course one of our inspirations, professor David Cooper. So all of this is designed to say, it may be triggering that it may be scary, actually is very much under control there. It's an amazing organization with huge support at all levels that we identified here on the way out. And also we talked about what about Qtopia, Sydney and who we are and where we're going and how you can be involved. So it's hopefully it's taken people on the journey into the depths of thought and excited that thought enough for people to say, I want to be involved.

Kate: 31:07

Qtopia is open from Friday, the 17th of February, 2023, in both locations with no cost of admission. The Ward 17 South exhibition at the National Art School is only open for three weeks during World Pride, but as Greg said, hopefully this exhibit will tour The Bandstand exhibit will be on display for at least a year...

Greg: 31:27

And during that time, we will be agitating and advocating very hard to government to get the property that we know we, we should have. There is no charge for entry for this first year. We want people to come in and to like us, to love us, to participate, to give of that time, to become volunteers, to say that it's important. we want community engagement. That's the, that's the goal for, for year one.

Kate: 31:48

And speaking of community participation...

Greg: 31:51

We are looking for volunteers. And already, if you go to our website you go straight to the volunteer button, you sign up, you choose your shifts, and we're doing two shifts a day, especially during World Pride. And we definitely need more volunteers. Everybody's screaming for volunteers, as you can imagine at this time, all the organizations, and we have a shortfall, uh, which means that the directors are gonna have to roll up their sleeves and, and man the stations. But we definitely need volunteers.

Kate: 32:15

Despite the temporary exhibition locations, Qtopia has made a big effort to be accessible. The Ward 17 South exhibit is fully wheelchair accessible, and the National Art School provides gender neutral and accessible toilets. The displayed video footage also includes captions for the hearing impaired However, the Bandstand exhibit is a little bit hamstrung by the old structure. There is a ramp to the first level, though it does not comply with legal accessibility standards. As a result, some visitors may not be able to access the first floor, which requires ascending a narrow staircase. To overcome this challenge, the museum has set up a monitor on the ground floor that displays all the content from the upstairs level...

Greg: 32:57

Plus the disco itself, the ode to the nightlife is downstairs as well. So there is enough to see even accessibility wise there at the bandstand.

Kate: 33:06

Greg, thank you so much for coming on the podcast today. It's been a true honor to speak to you and learn about Qtopia.

Greg: 33:12

Well, thank you, Kate, for taking the time. It's important that people like yourself do come and, and question us and get the message out there because that's exactly how we're going to grow in relevance and in support for the community. So I thank you.

Kate: 33:27

Being able to see Qtopia and talking with Greg was truly inspiring and so humbling. Greg really nailed what I like about small and niche museums. They acknowledge and honor the diverse and intersecting identities of individuals. They provide a welcoming space where visitors can feel a sense of belonging and inclusion, as well as promoting a deeper understanding of the issues facing them. Another thing I love about Mardi Gras time of year is that Mardi Gra is the perfect example of this kind of celebration of intersectionality. You have floats for all sorts of communities such as Gay Tradies, Uniting Church, Queer teachers, Philippine Australian Sports, Liberal Party friends, Jewish L G B T Sydney, Deaf Rainbow Australia, Scouts Australia, Chinese L G B T, and so on and so on. Identity is an integral part of the human experience, and the more we can do to make everyone feel accepted and valued for who they are, the richer we will be as a community. So I know that got a little bit deep there, but it's hard not to, when you think about the power of acceptance. So seriously, make sure you check out Qtopia and try to visit Ward 17 South in the coming weeks if you can. You won't regret it.