How Triggers Reveal The Stories You Inherited

The loudest voice shaping your life might not be your own, and once you see that, everything changes. We sit down with Dr. Cornelia Shipley Bearyman, executive coach, author, and Ph.D in metaphysics, for a conversation that starts playful and turns deeply human: grief, identity, and the hidden scripts we replay when we feel threatened, judged, or out of control. 

She shares the shock of losing her mother just five days after her wedding, and how other people’s reactions taught her a core lesson about perception: we see the world as we are, not as it is. From there, we explore the practical side of healing and mindset work. What do you do with the inner critic that says you’re unworthy, unlovable, or unsafe? How do you “return to sender” the stories you inherited? Dr. Berriman offers language you can use immediately, plus a powerful reframe on triggers: “hysterical is historical.” 

We also widen the lens to conscious leadership, faith, and uncertainty. We talk about choosing your hard, why control is a false construct, how support systems keep you grounded, and what the age of AI is forcing all of us to confront about being a human being rather than a human doing. If you’re navigating change, burnout, career pressure, or a deeper spiritual question, this one meets you where you are. 

Subscribe, Share this with a friend who needs it, and leave a review with the biggest truth you’re ready to face.

Transcript

Welcome And An Ice Cream Story

SPEAKER_06 0:00

All right, welcome back to the ICF San Diego's Coffee and Conversation Podcast. And today, my guest is Dr. Cornelia Shipley Berriman. And we are going to have a treat here today, y'all. I just feel it in my bones that something good's gonna come out of this conversation. Dr. Camelia, how are you doing this morning?

SPEAKER_07 0:23

You know, I'm doing wonderful. Thank you for asking, Donald. How are you?

SPEAKER_06 0:27

Well, so so let's start out. See, I already I'm already jumping around here. So if Wonderful was a flavor of ice cream, what flavor ice cream would your wonderful be?

SPEAKER_07 0:42

So you're gonna have me tell a Hagen Doss story.

SPEAKER_06 0:45

Oh, I oh I see now I know we're gonna get get along really well. So tell the story because I know something's coming up here.

SPEAKER_07 0:52

Because you have nicely set that up. So my family, I am an only child. I'm the only daughter of the late Dr. Anthony and Barbara Shipley. And my parents and I were big Hagen Doss eaters. And I'm gonna I'm gonna date myself because I was eating Hagen Dass in high school when it was it was two pints for five dollars.

SPEAKER_06 1:15

Okay, I do remember. So you're not going too far back because I remember that too.

SPEAKER_07 1:20

So two for five.

SPEAKER_06 1:22

Yes.

SPEAKER_07 1:22

And and our our our family had flavors. One that everybody liked was vanilla Swiss almond.

SPEAKER_06 1:29

Okay.

SPEAKER_07 1:30

And one day, I think it was my dad, came home and there was no vanilla Swiss almond in the house, and he got upset.

SPEAKER_04 1:39

Okay.

SPEAKER_07 1:40

And and the next day, there were 30 pints of Hagenda's vanilla Swiss almond in our house. And that is not an exaggeration. What happened was I went to a store and bought 10 at two for five.

SPEAKER_02 1:58

Yes.

SPEAKER_07 1:58

My mom went to a store and bought 10 at 2 for five. And my dad went to a store and bought 10 for two for five. So I would be remiss if I didn't say it was Hagen Dosh.

SPEAKER_06 2:14

There you go. So that was my second favorite was the vanilla Swiss almond. The first was the butter pecan by Hagen Dosh, right? So you knew you were having a good day when you had some of that ice cream, man. That that's so wonderful.

SPEAKER_07 2:28

So I'm doing you know the story about Butter pecan ice cream in our and the African American community.

SPEAKER_06 2:34

No, but I'm sure, tell me right now.

SPEAKER_07 2:38

So there was a time in our history when we we were not allowed to eat vanilla ice cream as a community. And the closest thing to it was Butter pecan. It's why our grandparents and our great-grandparents ate so much butter pecan ice cream. Most of our parents in the United States, our grandparents for sure, sure. Yeah, you know, were eating butter pecan ice cream, and it was because they did not have access to vanilla ice cream.

SPEAKER_06 3:11

Right. So that that's the thing that you can with the Turner and like the chilled ice, and that's that's how we got it. So my my parents were from Virginia, and my they moved to New York. So I was born in New York. So when we were in New York, we ate it Hogan Doss, because that was about the closest you could get to that authentic flavor. And then when we went down south for summer, we ate real ice cream, right? So this is wonderful.

SPEAKER_07 3:40

It's funny that you say that you were born in New York. I'm the only one of my first cousins on either side of my family not born in one of the five boroughs.

SPEAKER_06 3:49

Ah, so where were you born then?

SPEAKER_07 3:53

I was born in Detroit.

SPEAKER_06 3:54

Okay.

SPEAKER_07 3:55

And in Detroit, Michigan, and both of my parents were born in Harlem Hospital.

SPEAKER_06 4:01

Okay. Yeah, my oldest sister was born in Harlem, and then my parents moved to Queens. Right? And then we I spent most of my childhood. I left there at 21 and came to California and never looked back. So it's been it's been an interesting journey for me. All right. So I think we set this conversation up really well. So we're clicking, right? You and I are just having this nice little rhythm going here. So I start out all of my interviews with what I call the platinum question. And that question is what are the three or four events that has most shaped who you are today?

SPEAKER_07 4:44

Wow. So I always start with this question with the passing of my mother. So my mother died unexpectedly five days after my wedding. It was arguably the most traumatic experience for my immediate family. My father had been with her since he was 14 years old. She died at 71. He was 73 when she passed. My husband had had her as his mother in love for five days. And she was my unconditional example of love on the planet when, you know, for most of my life. And so that level of

Loss After Joy And What It Taught

SPEAKER_07 5:30

unexpected grief, right? On the heels of what for many is one of the happiest days of their life. Yeah. And when you share information with them, they are processing it through their filter.

SPEAKER_03 5:56

Yes.

SPEAKER_07 5:57

And so when I returned from my honeymoon, I, you know, I had buried my mother when I got back to work. And, you know, people, I had made some decisions. I had to decide, like, how am I going to share this story? Am I going to share this story? And I made the decision that if somebody asked me how my wedding was, I would tell them what happened. But if they didn't ask, I wouldn't talk about it.

SPEAKER_02 6:21

Right.

SPEAKER_07 6:22

And when people asked me, I was amazed at the reactions I got. I got everything from people bursting into tears to people ignoring what I said.

SPEAKER_05 6:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 6:35

Right. And in that season, I learned that people are processing every single moment in life from their perspective. And the reaction, the response very rarely has anything to do with you. Very rarely. I mean, it can, but it very rarely does.

SPEAKER_02 6:56

Right, right.

SPEAKER_07 6:57

So that would be probably the most significant experience. The one I would follow up with was my wedding, right? The most important decision you make in your life is who you choose to spend your life with. I like to think I made a good choice. We we celebrate 14 years married and 18 years together this year. And I married, you know, an incredible human being who, you know, lived in Japan for a season, holds a patent in paint manufacturing, and today is a general contractor, right? Like I married this amazingly smart, wonderful, loving human. The third thing I would say, I'm gonna pair two things that happened at two separate times, but the lesson from that was the same. I wrote this book, Design Your Life, in 2014. And last year I got my PhD. And that meant behind my name, two things happened. I became an author and I became a doctor. And both of those things changed the way people related to me. And that's been fascinating to see how, you know, when we were in the green room talking earlier, we were talking about, you know, how we in the African American community refer to people who have a PhD, right? Or people who are a medical doctor on PhD. But at the end of the day, that was a life, those two things, adding author and PhD to the back of my name, taught me also how people see you and how people react to you based on what they think that means to them. The assumptions that they make about who you must be, how you must be because. And then the last thing I would say, I'm gonna do two more. It's connected. Moving to Atlanta, I moved here in 2010 and joining an organization called the Bow Collective. Okay, and both of those things, the Bo Collective is a consortium of the top 1% of African descent women business owners in the world. And there's less than 400 members that collectively do just about $2 billion in business annually. And we we are a reflection of the people we spend the most time with, and we create the things we most talk about. And so having come to Atlanta and changing my social circle and having joined the Bo collective and significantly changing my professional circle would be the last kind of set of things I would say has informed who I am today.

SPEAKER_06 10:00

And and I appreciate everything that you're saying, but one thing I picked up on a common theme is the word learned as in past tent and how you're bringing it into uh the present. So yeah, I'm gonna sit with this for a moment here because how I'm gonna go more deep into other stuff here, but if you're the talk with somebody now and you you mentioned about you learned it's from their experience, how they perceiving it. How would you encourage someone that's been holding on to something they learned, but it was incorrect because it was based on the other person's experience, you know what I'm saying? Is like, how do you change, talk to that person and give them hope to change that narrative?

SPEAKER_07 11:05

So my father used to say this to me often we see the world as we are, not as it is. Yeah, and so even in the face of having processed something from someone else's experience, when you find yourself speaking negatively to or about yourself, the question to be asking is who's speaking? Because it's not you. It is typically a person that raised you or a person that created some level of trauma for you between the time you were born and the time you were seven years old. And so what I would say to a person who is listening to something, some story, some re something on replay that says that they are not worthy, not lovable, not safe, which is the core wound of all of us. We either believe we are unworthy, unlovable, or unsafe, to recognize that that is somebody else's story based in somebody else's fear, and to take a moment to say, whose is that? And to give it back physically, metaphorically, you know, write it out, journal it out, whatever you need to do, to give it back to its rightful owner, because it's not yours.

SPEAKER_06 12:33

Okay. All right. You just opened up not a single door, but you opened up a double door because I want to go back to what you just said, that that person speaking is not you. Because I don't believe people understand what you just said. I call the person speaking the protective self. So that for me is because those people that were speaking were now protecting ourselves from that. So we hear it. So say more about how to go about consistently giving it back. And I say letting it go. You understand what I'm saying? So let's go deep here. Let's not stay on the surface, let's go deep and help people get to that place where they can consistently let go.

SPEAKER_07 13:31

Yeah, so the biggest thing I would say about that, about you know, like a return to sender, right? How do you think it's a good thing?

SPEAKER_06 13:37

Yes, oh wonderful way of saying it. Wonderful.

How Titles Shift Other People

SPEAKER_07 13:40

Right. How do you return it back to the person? Is I always I always find myself saying, you know, to my subconscious mind, thank you for sharing. That's not helpful.

SPEAKER_03 13:50

Yes.

SPEAKER_07 13:51

Right? Okay, and and I most learned that phrase when my mother died. Okay, because people kept telling me, I'm so, you know, thank God she made the wedding. Aren't you glad she made the wedding? And I'm like, yeah, that's not useful.

SPEAKER_02 14:05

Yes, exactly.

SPEAKER_07 14:07

Yes, right, right, because I would rather have her be here, yes, than have made the wedding. Yeah, so that's not that's not helpful, yes, and so what I often tell people is to literally say to your subconscious mind, thank you for sharing, that's not helpful, or thank you for sharing, I'll come back to that, but I don't need that in this moment, yes, yes, right, and so giving yourself permission in the moment to acknowledge what's coming up, yeah, right, and it's coming up to protect you, right? Because our subconscious mind is designed to protect us. And when you hear the negativity of the person or people who most influenced your childhood, and I'm saying it that way on purpose, because sometimes it's parents, sometimes it's grandparents, sometimes it's siblings, sometimes it's the bully at school, like whoever it is, those people who most influence you, when it comes up, it's coming up because something has been triggered. And there's a wonderful phrase that hysterical is historical. When we find ourselves overreacting to something, it's not because you're reacting to what happened in the moment. You're happening, you're reacting to how what happened in the moment triggered something from the past. And so when you can take a moment to understand and recognize that that's what's happening, you can then make a different decision. And so when the feeling comes up, it's like, oh, I'm triggered. I'm triggered about this past thing, or I'm triggered about this thing. I need to go figure out what the heck it was. Either way, then you know where the work is for you. Yes, you know what the next thing is, the next conversation you need to be having with your coach, with your therapist, with your pastor, with your girlfriend or boyfriend or human that you trust, right? So that you can start to unpack and become untriggerable.

SPEAKER_03 16:11

Yes.

SPEAKER_07 16:11

Get to the place where I like to make that easy button analogy back when Staples had the advertisement.

SPEAKER_06 16:18

That was easy.

unknown 16:20

Right?

SPEAKER_07 16:20

Right. And so what happens is people are pushing your easy button. And your job is to smooth that button out so there's nothing to push. Yeah. And so when something happens, the opportunity for you is to say, okay, I got triggered. What is this trigger really about? And what's the story I'm replaying from the past that likely isn't true?

SPEAKER_03 16:46

Yes.

SPEAKER_07 16:48

And how do I apply the truth? Not my opinion about what happened, not my recollection about what happened, like, but like what is right? Like what actually is. Like what happened is I am holding an eye, uh, a Galaxy 24. That's what is that? I'm holding that in my hand. Whatever story I want to make about it, it's not as good as an iPhone. It's better than an iPhone, it has a better camera. All of that is just story. Yes, you gotta be able to go back to what is and then soothe your subconscious with the truth of what is.

SPEAKER_06 17:31

All right, all right, okay. I'm loving this because you're you're bringing up a lot of good stuff here for me, because what is for me is is the place of reality. It's the it's it's where truth is, right? It's it's what's happening. But one thing you you mentioned here. Even in the conversation, you used the term you said thank you. And I like that because what I've come to understand is the moment we get into the adversarial relationship, the old self digs in and it becomes more of a boxing match. So you you you taught, you just said it. I hope everyone caught that. That thank you was not it wasn't it, it was a very subtle way of just allowing things for you to settle into it. That's a beautiful way of doing it. I love the thank you there. But the other thing that you pointed out, and I want you to talk more about this, is the trigger becomes the indicator or the signposts that you take into the relationship or the coaching or whatever it is to help you get to where truth is. So talk

Whose Voice Is Talking To You

SPEAKER_06 18:45

to the person that or the listener that's seeing the signposts, but they're not reading the signposts. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_07 18:57

Yeah, and it's okay.

SPEAKER_06 18:59

So and I have to say this to the listeners, she's getting really passionate right now, so this is pretty awesome. She's leaning in. I just want you to understand that this is really good right now, so hold on.

SPEAKER_07 19:12

So I I would say it this way. When one, it's not that we ignore signs, yeah. It's either that we don't understand them, yes, or we're not ready to face them.

SPEAKER_04 19:30

Okay.

SPEAKER_07 19:31

Right? Either we see something, you know, like I said earlier, you know, my husband speaks Japanese and he also speaks Portuguese. I speak neither of those languages.

SPEAKER_02 19:42

Right.

SPEAKER_07 19:43

So if he were to leave me a note in Portuguese, I can see, I can see the sign. Yes, I can see the letters, I can see it. I don't understand it.

SPEAKER_04 19:53

Okay.

SPEAKER_07 19:54

And therefore, I don't know what to do about what I'm seeing. Right? The other case is I see it, but I'm not ready to deal with it. So a couple of months ago, I posted on LinkedIn a story about weight bias. And I did that because I've lost about 70 pounds. And so I posted a before picture and an after picture. And if you go to my like, you can scroll through and find it if you really want to see how big I used to be. But I will tell you that I did not see how large I had gotten. Right? Like I knew that I was in a different size, yeah. Right. And and I knew that you know I couldn't fit into some things and all of that. But I didn't realize I was as big as I was.

SPEAKER_04 20:55

Okay.

SPEAKER_07 20:56

And it's not that I wasn't looking in the mirror every morning because I was, I mean, I had to put my makeup on and do all the things we as women do to get ready, but I wasn't seeing the truth of what was looking back at me. Right? I was still seeing a person that weighed about 60 or 70 pounds less than the person that was standing in the mirror.

SPEAKER_02 21:18

Right.

SPEAKER_07 21:19

And so there are times when we we can visually see something and not be able to process it. Right. And so you could either be ignoring a piece of the truth. Like I knew factually, I had gone from size A to size B.

SPEAKER_03 21:38

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_07 21:39

I knew that. Yes. Right. And I still was like, but I don't look like that.

SPEAKER_03 21:44

Right. Right. Right.

SPEAKER_07 21:46

Right?

SPEAKER_03 21:46

Yes.

SPEAKER_07 21:47

And so it took getting to a particular place where one day I had a hard time getting off of my sofa. And I was like, oh yeah, this we're done.

SPEAKER_00 21:58

Okay.

SPEAKER_07 21:59

We're done. Like, I can't continue. This is affecting my quality of life on the daily, and therefore I can't continue to do this. And so that's what prompted me to move. So sometimes you have to do the work and say, somebody left me this note in Portuguese. I need to go find a translator.

SPEAKER_03 22:19

Yes.

SPEAKER_07 22:20

Right? Sometimes we're looking in the mirror at ourselves and we're not willing to connect the dots between the fact that your face looks different in the mirror and you're you've gone up on the scale and you've gone up in size, yet and still you're acting like nothing happened. So you're willfully ignoring what's occurring. So it just depends, right? It depends on the thing that's occurred. It depends on where your mindset is in the moment when it happens. Because some days you're like, I'm ready to deal with it. Right. I mean, I didn't I didn't gain, you know, over a hundred pounds.

SPEAKER_02 23:04

Right.

SPEAKER_07 23:04

Right. I didn't gain over a hundred pounds by accident.

SPEAKER_02 23:08

Right.

SPEAKER_07 23:08

And there were milestones along that journey where I was like, take your behind to the gym.

SPEAKER_02 23:14

Right.

SPEAKER_07 23:15

And I did. But it didn't change the fact that it took getting to a very particular point where I was like, I have had enough. Enough. And that's the point at which people will change because people change when the pain of remaining the same is greater than their fear of what they have to give up to change. And more often than not, people are comfortable with the hard that they're choosing. Right? You being fat is hard.

SPEAKER_05 23:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 23:49

Being the weight I am now is hard.

SPEAKER_05 23:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 23:52

My heart. I could either have the hard time of getting up and moving and all of that, or I can have the hard time of being diligent and going to the gym and eating well and drinking water and eating supplements and all the things that I have to do now. You have to choose your heart. And you also have to remember that when you're faced with an opportunity to do something different, right? Because that's what you're really talking about, Donald, is doing something different. And when you're faced with the opportunity to do something different, to remember that you are not afraid of change. You're afraid of being out of control. Because if you were afraid of change, you wouldn't get married, get divorced, buy a new dress, get new shoes, get a new car, get a new job, do all of the things we as human beings do. We are not afraid of change. We are afraid of being out of control. And here's the kicker: control is a false construct. Because the only thing you get to

Triggers As Clues You Can Follow

SPEAKER_07 24:55

control is your response. You don't even get to retro control your reaction to what happens. The only thing you control is your response. And half the time, because you're triggered, you don't control that.

SPEAKER_06 25:07

Yeah, it's automatic. Choose your pain.

SPEAKER_07 25:15

Choose your heart. Choose your heart.

SPEAKER_06 25:17

Choose your heart. Yeah, that that's that's a beautiful statement there. So so Dr. Cornelia, right now, at this stage of your life and work, because I know you've gone through some stuff, and even the what you just shared about the weight loss, this is incredible. What helps you stay grounded when outcomes are uncertain, right? You've gone through this and pressure is high.

SPEAKER_07 25:45

So I happen to be a woman of faith with a PhD in metaphysics. Okay. And so for me, there's a big piece of that component that has to do with my faith and my faith walk. I've married a person who grounds me very much. There's a running joke in our family. When people meet my husband, they're like, Does he talk? And I'm like, he talks to me.

SPEAKER_01 26:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 26:08

He might not talk to you.

SPEAKER_01 26:10

Right, right, right.

SPEAKER_07 26:11

But he talks to me.

SPEAKER_01 26:12

Right.

SPEAKER_07 26:13

Um, and and he does an outstanding job of understanding who he married and the environment and the nurturing that I personally need, just like I think I understand the person that I married and understand the nurturing that he needs. So those are two things. I think the other thing is I have, I'll say it this way: our life is like a tabletop, right? If you think about your life as the tabletop, and then all of the people in your life are the people that support you and support your life. And in recent days, I've done a lot to ensure that I've got the right legs under my table, supporting the right part of my life.

SPEAKER_03 27:03

Yes.

SPEAKER_07 27:04

Because not everybody can support everything. And so having the right the right support in the right spot of my life also matters.

SPEAKER_06 27:17

Yes. So you mentioned a woman of faith, and how has faith impacted how you show up as a conscious leader or teaching your leadership principles? How has that impacted, or if it has impacted it in any way?

SPEAKER_07 27:36

So I'm the daughter of a preacher and a psychologist.

SPEAKER_06 27:42

Oh, that's that's interesting, right there, y'all. I don't think you understand what she just said.

SPEAKER_07 27:49

And so I'd like to say that I was perfectly crafted for the job of executive coaching in particular. But having said that, my father didn't take a local pulpit until I was well into my teenage years. He he ran administration in the church for most of my childhood. And so what that meant to me was I had a dad, and then somebody else was my pastor. Yes. Right. The late Reverend Philemon Titus was the man that baptized me. Dr. Carlisle Fielding Stewart III is my brother in Christ and has been my covering for most of my adult life. And so my father never had to do double duty.

SPEAKER_04 28:38

Okay.

SPEAKER_07 28:38

Which meant for me as a preacher's kid, I didn't connect a religious leader as my connection to God. Right. I understood that my relationship, my faith walk had absolutely nothing to do with the fact that I had a pastor for a dad. And so for me, I recognize that God knows exactly who He who He designed.

SPEAKER_03 29:09

Yes.

SPEAKER_07 29:09

Right. And so I have very real conversation. And sometimes that conversation wouldn't be fit for the general public because it's not all nice words and you know roses and sweet petals. And so I I have a real relationship with God. I don't have a relationship where I feel like I can't tell, I can't bring voice to exactly what I'm thinking or exactly how I'm feeling. And some days I can say it with all of the grace and flowers and all of the things. And sometimes I'm a call BS.

SPEAKER_01 29:51

Right.

SPEAKER_07 29:51

And I'm just gonna say that's some BS with the full words.

SPEAKER_01 29:55

Right.

SPEAKER_07 29:56

And might and might add some others for clarity. Right. But I will say that foundationally I feel very fortunate that I have always been connected to my faith. I can't think of a time. Now we might have been beefing.

SPEAKER_02 30:16

Right, right, sure.

SPEAKER_07 30:18

Right, we might have been arguing.

SPEAKER_02 30:19

Agree.

SPEAKER_07 30:20

But I can't think of a time in my life where I didn't know that I was a child of God, and I didn't have that confused with being Tony Shipley's daughter.

SPEAKER_06 30:33

Right. Understood. So I'm gonna ask a question. I'm going off topic here. So as a as a woman of faith, what what are you sensing happening globally? Right? I'm I'm putting you out here because if you're in the same channel that I'm in, if you're if you're sensing what I'm sensing, what what are you sensing is happening globally?

SPEAKER_07 31:04

So we know that globally there has been a rise of the feminine. Right? There's been a rise of, you know, if we think about the feminine, the masculine, the yin and the yang, right? There's been a rise of the feminine. I was in a conversation recently with a colleague, and we were talking about the millions of black people in particular

Choose Your Hard And Release Control

SPEAKER_07 31:30

who have lost their jobs. In the United States, in particular.

SPEAKER_05 31:35

Okay.

SPEAKER_07 31:37

And as part of that conversation, one of the things that I said was when things are happening at scale, that is not an individual problem.

SPEAKER_04 31:52

Okay.

SPEAKER_07 31:53

It is an individual experience.

SPEAKER_03 31:55

Yes.

SPEAKER_07 31:57

It is a collective experience, and it is a collective problem, in addition to being an individual one. And so what I recognize is that collectively, both as people of African descent and as people in the United States of America in particular, we are at a crossroads, in my opinion. And I think that the next several years are going to be incredibly not only influential, but they will be, they will be mile markers wherever you are in your life, based on the decisions that you're making today and tomorrow, and the decisions you made in the last 18, 24, 36 months, are going to very much determine not only your trajectory, but if you have children and grandchildren, the trajectory of your family, particularly in the U.S. If if historians are right, and I am not a historian by any stretch of the imagination, but if historians are correct, we are potentially watching the end of the United States as a superpower as we've known it. And if that is true, then what happens to the you know hundreds of millions of people who live in the United States, who have a particular frame of reference about what that means?

SPEAKER_02 33:26

Right.

SPEAKER_07 33:27

What life looks like.

SPEAKER_03 33:38

Yes.

SPEAKER_07 33:40

And the and the age of AI is going to force us to sort out what does it mean to be a human being, not a human doing. And if you haven't done the work internally to sort out who it is you think you want to be and become, and you haven't done the things from an infrastructure perspective to ensure that you're financially stable, life might get really interesting. So when you ask me the question, what am I seeing, what am I sensing, what do I think? Yeah, that's what I think.

SPEAKER_06 34:16

And it's quite interesting because I want to acknowledge the fact that you see a crossing or a threshold. I too see the same thing. I think globally we're all seeing a threshold. Right? And I think for me, one of the most important things is what you said is doing the work to define who you want to be, or who you for me, it's not who I want to be anymore, it's who I am, or whose I am. Do you do you understand what I'm saying? Absolutely. And I think that's what the tension is actually causing us to do is to go inside.

SPEAKER_07 35:03

I I think for so long, so many people define themselves based on the job that they have. Sure, absolutely based on whether or not they were married or not. Like there are all of these ways in which we've defined what does it mean to be whoever it is that we said we were. And now the work is to really make a decision.

SPEAKER_03 35:27

Yes, right.

SPEAKER_07 35:28

And and part of that is connected to if you are a person of faith, what you think you were called here to do. Yes. Right. But beyond that, you know, there are people who are listening to this who are atheists who don't believe in that orientation in the world.

SPEAKER_03 35:42

Agree.

SPEAKER_07 35:43

And regardless of your religious tradition, you know, God gave you free will.

SPEAKER_03 35:49

Yes.

SPEAKER_07 35:50

So part of this is part of this can be divine, and part of this is choice.

Staying Grounded Under Pressure

SPEAKER_03 35:55

Yes.

SPEAKER_07 35:56

And you have to decide for those of us who are walking in the divine way, how are we aligning the divinity of who we are and the decision of who we are? And we have to make a decision and come to the juxtaposition where those two places meet and then walk out what we have then said is who we say we are.

SPEAKER_06 36:22

Yeah. Okay, stop. Hold up, put on the brakes, back up, and I want you to say that again one more time about the divine of who we are with the decisions, because that was powerful.

SPEAKER_07 36:38

Yeah, so many people who have a faith-based orientation believe that there's a divine call to their life.

SPEAKER_03 36:47

Yes.

SPEAKER_07 36:48

Right? What we know, or what I choose to believe, is that we are both human and divine.

SPEAKER_03 36:55

Yes.

SPEAKER_07 36:56

Right? The way Mary Mary said it was is the God in me, right? And so each of us has to come to some understanding. The way the scripture says it is with some level of fear and trembling, yeah. Around the intersection of who we think God or universe or however you want to say it, absolutely calling you to be and the decision you want to make about that.

SPEAKER_06 37:23

Yes. That's oh my goodness, that was so beautiful, girl. I'm sorry, that was just wonderful. So yesterday, and I'm jumping here, but this is fine because somebody needs to hear this that's gonna listen to this. Yesterday, I was pondering on St. Augustine's quote, and you just you brought it up as you're talking. It came to me, and that quote was, You have made us for yourself, oh Lord, and our heart is restless until it rests in you.

SPEAKER_07 38:01

Well, and here's the kicker. I would say our heart is restless until it rests in you, and we decide.

SPEAKER_06 38:09

Yeah, oh, absol well, decision has to come before you know what I'm saying. It's like yes.

SPEAKER_07 38:15

Because the truth of the matter is I don't want, I'm very sensitive to the fact that we talk about faith oftentimes in ways that are inaccessible to people.

SPEAKER_03 38:28

Yes.

SPEAKER_07 38:29

People ask me often, they're like, Well, you got your PhD in metaphysics, which is the spirituality of how a thought becomes a thing. That's how I like to talk about it anyway. You know, but you were raised by a pastor. So how do you how do you juxtapose kind of this new age spirituality part with this faith-based religion part? And what I'm what I'm clear about is that everyone is human and divine.

SPEAKER_06 38:53

Oh, absolutely.

SPEAKER_07 38:54

Yeah, whether you recognize that in yourself or not, that's that's for you to walk out in your in your absolutely well said, well said, yes. And for those people who don't have a spiritual inkling, a spiritual orientation, in my mind, it does not make them any less spiritual. It goes back to what I said about can you, you know, what are you seeing in the mirror? Do you can you see it? You may or may not have access to it. There are faith-based people who go seasons in their life feeling like God abandoned them.

SPEAKER_06 39:29

Oh, absolutely. Yes.

SPEAKER_07 39:31

Right? And so at the end of the day, as you're traversing your life path, you have to make a decision about how you're gonna orient your life. And it may be based on some level of spirituality, it may be based on yoga, it may be based on meditation, it may be based on atheism, it may be based on just doing the right thing.

SPEAKER_02 39:55

Right, right.

SPEAKER_07 39:57

Right? And once you've decided that, then you can reconcile the rest of it.

SPEAKER_06 40:03

Yes. So let me let me just put this out there. So you you called about from human and divine, and and I have been saying that I summarize that as by saying that we are the beloved, period. We are the beloved of God, all humans, every single human is beloved, and belovedness happens before belief. It's not the other way around, belief before belovedness. That's where we got it wrong. And I'm okay with admitting that. Okay.

SPEAKER_07 40:38

I mean, I think what you're what you're saying in my world is whether you accept Christ or not doesn't mean that you're

Faith Without Pretending Or Polishing

SPEAKER_07 40:45

not a child of God.

SPEAKER_06 40:46

Exactly. We're yes, yes. Right? Yes.

SPEAKER_07 40:50

It's no different than people who want to tell me that the law of cause and effect doesn't work, doesn't, isn't it, isn't it real? I'm like, okay, you can choose not to believe it, but it doesn't make you any less subject to it.

SPEAKER_06 41:02

Right, exactly. So you brought something up, man. God, I wish I had more time on this one. But I'm sensing, and you can probably tell me more about this, and and I'm sensing we are living in a time like never before. And I'm calling this a sacred convergence, where the sciences, the you know, psychology, metaphysics, and neurology and theology, all of this stuff is all converging together to reveal what truly is. Do you understand what I'm saying? And and it it's it's incredible. So from a faith perspective, non-faith, from a science, it's all coming into the same thing, like saying, this is it. Do you see that? Like absolutely, absolutely, right?

SPEAKER_07 41:55

So people are people are bringing to light what was long hidden in the dark.

SPEAKER_03 42:02

Oh, yes, yes, right.

SPEAKER_07 42:03

Oh and so and so, you know, for people who are have a faith-based orientation, I I'll say it this way. There are communities, right, that are faith-based communities that just work off the book of the Psalms, right? Some people call those people witches, right? There are some people who work just off the old testament, yeah. Some people call those people Jewish, yeah. Right? So, like, I don't get like okay, we some people, you know, choose to focus on praying five times a day. Yeah, we call those people Muslim. At the end of the day, it is my belief that the ultimate thing we're praying to is fundamentally the same person, same entity, same, you know, like Allah and God are they that's the same word. It's not a different word, right? And so when you translate the Arabic to English, right? When we we when we say Jehovah Jira, you're not not talking about God, right? Right, and so there are all of these names that we have for this this this thing. Some people just want to call the universe and operate off of universal law.

SPEAKER_06 43:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 43:44

Are they right or wrong? I mean, we're not gonna know for real until we get to heaven anymore.

SPEAKER_06 43:48

Until we get there, right? Until we step out, right?

SPEAKER_07 43:54

Right. So I think I think a faith journey is about figuring out. What makes sense to you? And for me, part of the reason I got my PhD in metaphysics was because I was tired of seeing people in traditional church be powerless. And there was an access to power for me personally that made sense in the structure of metaphysics that wasn't taught in most of Christianity.

SPEAKER_06 44:29

Keep going. I'm sitting. Go ahead, girl. I'm giving you space here, right?

SPEAKER_07 44:36

Like if we if we take if we take the law of cause and effect as an example, right? And it's so it's the one that that for most people is most accessible. We can all say that to get a result, something has to happen. People understand that, right? To lose weight, you have to do something. You gotta have a calorie deficit, you need to move your body, you need to make sure your hormones are better. Like there are things you have to do to get in effect, right? And so the part that I think for me, faith-based communities oftentimes don't clearly articulate. Religious leaders absolutely understand this. It's a question of whether or not the people in the pew catch a clue. Yes. Right. And so the disconnect comes from the fact that people don't understand that their thoughts and their words are a first cause in the law of cause and effect. Right? But they can stand on that scripture all day that says, you know, speak those things that are not as though they are so.

SPEAKER_05 45:45

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_07 45:46

Right? But when we start to talk about that on the metaphysics side, people be like, well, I don't, I don't agree. But it's the same thing.

SPEAKER_06 45:54

Yeah. No.

SPEAKER_07 45:56

So catch it where you catch it. If you catch it from universal

A Global Crossroads And The AI Age

SPEAKER_07 46:00

law, great. If you catch it from the Bible, wonderful.

unknown 46:06

Dr.

SPEAKER_06 46:07

Kenny, thank you. So that that segue was for someone. You understand what I'm saying? And you and I are gonna go into we're gonna have another conversation that'll straight be spiritual, right? Because I don't know if you know this, but I am a pastor.

SPEAKER_07 46:24

No, I did not know that.

SPEAKER_06 46:26

Yes. So, and I've been a I've been a pastor now for 20 some odd years. So I understand what you're saying, and and I've been in that position, and it's for me, something happened last year. I've been on a six-year journey, and my eyes are open like never before. Post COVID, something shifted in COVID, and I don't think the world or people understand it wherever you are, but spiritually, something shifted like never before. And and we like coaches, I think the thing is coaches understand what took place in that shift.

SPEAKER_07 47:15

Some coaches, yes.

SPEAKER_06 47:17

But what I'm saying is that they were led to become coaches. Something was drawing them to become coaches. Do you understand what I'm saying? So in that shift, it was saying is it may not be in the pulpits where people are gonna find out who they are, right? It's it's gonna be in these, yeah. Well, I'm gonna save this for another conversation.

SPEAKER_07 47:42

I'll just say it this way people are gonna people will establish their relationship to the divine, yes, and are establishing their relationship to the divine in multiple ways. Yes, because God clearly said, and you can probably point to the scripture better than I can, that you know, he's gonna use whatever he has available to bring his people to him, yes, and one of the ways that that is happening is through conversations around metaphysics and around Christianity and around Islam and around Judaism and around all of the ways in which people are are finding their way to what people in Christianity call God.

SPEAKER_06 48:30

Yes. And I will say this before I give you my last, I present my last question here, because you you said this early in this conversation, and I hope everyone can go back and catch this word. It's the willingness to have that conversation now, and I believe globally that there is a willingness to have that conversation, and that's what I I sense is changing in the world today.

SPEAKER_07 49:03

So yeah, people have to be three things. They have to be ready, yes, have to be willing, yes, they have to be able, they have to have the knowledge, the capability, and capacity, the ability to do what's necessary to be do have something different, right?

SPEAKER_06 49:20

Yes, and I think, well, I life has brought us to this place, girl. So that's all I'm gonna say. So I I my last question here is is because this has been a phenomenal conversation. This is gonna be one of I yeah, I'm not this is gonna rank up there, and I just want people to get this. So as you reflect on your journey, and and what do you hope people will feel when they're in your presence before they attempt to change anything?

SPEAKER_07 49:58

So, in the work that I do in corporations, what I have come to understand is that when I walk in the room, the truth walks in with me. And and it's usually the uncomfortable truth that walks in with me. It's not the morbid and fuzzy, let me make you comfortable truth that shows up when I do. And so I hope that part of my presence gives people, in the words of Marianne Williamson, the permission in her famous poem to deal with the truth that they have been unwilling to look at.

SPEAKER_06 50:51

Well said. Nothing else is needed. We're gonna end right there. This

Where Metaphysics And Scripture Agree

SPEAKER_06 51:00

has been wonderful, and thank you for sharing some of your time with me today.

SPEAKER_07 51:04

Thank you, Donald. It was my pleasure.