Building Certainty

“I’m well” sounds simple until you unpack what it really means: present, alive, and honest about where you are. 

In this episode, we have a deep, electric conversation with Pam Covarrubias, the creator and host of the Cafe Con Pam podcast, about what it takes to stop performing your life and start living from certainty. Pam takes us back to her corporate traveling days when she fell in love with podcasts but couldn’t find conversations led by immigrants, first-gen Latinas, or women who sounded like her. A vision board, a Craigslist microphone, and one perfectly timed divine connection later, she builds the show she wished existed.

From there, we go into the moments that change everything: leaving a toxic relationship when the “next time” happens and nobody can save you, and recognizing how your body keeps score when your career no longer fits. Pam breaks down how burnout shows up as signals in the nervous system, why exit plans matter, and how self-responsibility can be compassionate instead of punishing. If you’re wrestling with career transitions, boundaries, or the fear of disappointing people, this conversation meets you where you are and still challenges you to tell the truth.

Pam also shares her coaching framework for first-generation Latinas navigating Calladita Culture®, including the five wounds she sees again and again: silence, worth, power, commitment, and identity. We talk about somatic grounding, movement, nature as a teacher, and why the seasons of the earth can help you understand your own cycles. The biggest takeaway lands hard: confidence can be performance, but certainty is wholeness you can stand on.

If this resonated, subscribe, share it with a friend who needs a nudge, and leave a review so more people can find these conversations.

Transcript

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Being Well And Being Present

SPEAKER_05 1:07

All right. Welcome back to ICF San Diego's Coffee and Conversation Podcast. And my special guest today is Coach Pam Cabarubias. I just butchered your last name. Can you help me out and say it for the audience there?

SPEAKER_00 1:23

Cobar Rubias.

SPEAKER_05 1:25

Cobar Rubias. Yeah, it's beautiful. How are you doing today?

SPEAKER_00 1:30

I'm doing well. Thank you for asking.

SPEAKER_05 1:32

Well, so you will learn as we go through this podcast. I'm going to pick up on words. I think that just happens to be my gift. So what does well mean for you before we go anywhere?

SPEAKER_00 1:48

Well, I when I was in college, I'm pretty sure this was one of my English professors who said, you never answer your good. Because what does that mean? It's not grammatically correct. I mean, of course, an English professor would say that, right? It's not grammatically correct. It's an easy answer that stops you from, like it's just, it's, it's a cop-out answer. And so the right way to say it is you're well. Because well means you're healthy, you you're here, you're alive, you're good, is very surface.

SPEAKER_03 2:27

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 2:28

And so when people ask me how am I doing, I always say I'm well. And it throws people off many times because they don't know what to respond.

SPEAKER_05 2:35

Well, but that's beautiful the way that you said it. Like, because you said you're you're present, right? You're here. And I think that to me is the key there is the fact that you are present. Like you and I are having this, I call it a sacred moment. We're on this interview together, and this is special. It's going to be better than good. It's actually, I think it's going to be better than well, right? That's not proper English, but it's going to be much better. So I'm excited here to learn a little bit more about you because, first of all, in your bio, you host a podcast called Cafe

Why Cafe Con Pam Began

SPEAKER_05 3:17

con Pam. And I know that means coffee with Pam, right? Isn't it? That's like, so what a coincidence here. Like ICF, Coffee and Commissation. So let's before we go into my questions, how did you get started with the podcast, right? Because I think that's another medium that people use for experience. How did you get started there? And what drew the name?

SPEAKER_00 3:41

Well, that was 10 years ago.

SPEAKER_05 3:43

Oh, that's that. See, that's awesome. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:46

Yeah. This is this is a long time coming. So, and even before, around 2014, 2015, maybe even 2013, to be honest, I was in corporate America, okay. Traveling for work. I was climbing the ladder. I was a corporate executive and I was traveling a lot. And at the time, I was listening to podcasts. I discovered podcasts. And this is back in the day when you had to download them on your phone. Yes. So it wasn't, you know, there was no streaming or anything like that. And I really loved listening to conversations. There were there were a few like news podcasts, there were a few solo podcasts, but mainly what I enjoyed the most was the conversations because I was traveling by myself. And so I felt like that was some company in some way.

SPEAKER_03 4:38

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 4:39

And all of these interviews and conversations were cool, but none of them, or very few, like few when I say like two or three, were people that look like me. The immigrants, the first gens, Latinas, eldest daughters, it was very like male, pale, and stale. You know, it was like very business.

SPEAKER_03 5:02

Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:03

And so, and this is, I would say, before even like the true crime podcast, like this is way back when. And so I wondered for a long time, I'm ready to listen to a podcast of people that look like me, that sound like me, that spanglish their way through a conversation.

SPEAKER_01 5:18

Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 5:19

That grew up with her mom making tortillas and then went to college and ate hamburgers, you know? And I waited for years, two years, and it didn't exist. Nobody came up with it. So 2016 happens, and I get this urge one weekend to put a microphone on my vision board. And I went through my magazines and I found a microphone and I cut it out and I put it on my vision board. And two weeks later, I'm having dinner with a friend of mine who's a music producer. And at the end of the night, he's walking me to my car and he's like, So what's next for you? And I say, you know, I want to do this podcasting. I've been listening to them. I don't know what to do. Like, I have zero clue. But I bought a microphone from my retired rapper on Craigslist. I have the idea. I wanted to be around drinking coffee because I grew up in Mexico City.

SPEAKER_01 6:13

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 6:14

There's a huge culture of like, let's go get cafecito. Yeah. Have a conversation. And so he literally were outside of my car and he's like, so it's gonna be cafe comb, obviously. And I'm like, oh my gosh, of course.

SPEAKER_06 6:28

Yes. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 6:31

And then I said, But I'm missing one piece of the puzzle, which is editing sound. I can talk, I can have a conversation. I have the mic. I don't know if it's the right mic, but you know, we gotta start somewhere.

SPEAKER_03 6:43

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 6:44

But I don't know how to what to do with the audio. And he looked at me and he's like, you know what I do? Do you remember? He's a music producer. No, they and I was like, oh my gosh. So he became my first editor. And that's how Go Fuckin' Bump started. Here we are.

SPEAKER_05 7:01

So I I just want the listeners to really like chime in on this because I said that this was sacred, right? And then to listen to your story that you you mentioned about being inspired to put a picture of a microphone on your vision board. I'm a spiritual person, so I'm just gonna put it out there. You you weren't inspired, you were led, my friend, to kind of put that. And and but to see how all of those dots connect it once the movement. You do you see what I'm saying? You listen and it was like, whoa, let's put this here. And the next thing you know, okay, let me get you here, let me do this and let me do that. And voila, 10 years later, here we are. You're doing something that's quite amazing in the field. Ten years, right? I'll say more about this, but now let's go, let's go deep here. Because I don't I want people listening to this episode, like you said, first gen, people that are living real life. You you understand what I'm saying? That's what I'm about. I'm about the realness in in all that we do. So, what are the three or

Life Events That Shaped Pam

SPEAKER_05 8:12

four uh life events that have shaped who you are today?

SPEAKER_00 8:20

Three or four. So I think frankly, starting the podcast was one. Yeah. That was a huge decision. Because at the time, I made a list of a hundred people I wanted to interview. So it's my wish list. I think we have like two or three left of those. First 100%.

SPEAKER_05 8:39

That's beautiful. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:41

And that changed me because it got me out of my comfort zone.

SPEAKER_03 8:45

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 8:46

It changed me because I had to face rejection in so many ways. It changed me because I had to figure it out, literally. Like nobody was putting out courses and how to podcast, right? Like there's nothing at that time. Yes. YouTube wasn't that helpful. And everything was super technical. Right now we have tools like so many digital platforms that allow you to record podcasts. Back then, you literally, just like you're recording with a board, like that was the only way.

SPEAKER_05 9:14

The only way. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:16

And so that's definitely one. Leaving a toxic relationship is another one. Leaving my corporate job is another one without a plan. So I always tell my clients, does I say not as I did, because I know how hard it is to do it as I did. Yes. And I think that I mean there's many more, but I think a big one is when I landed in the hospital because my heart failed or was about to fall.

SPEAKER_05 9:44

Yes. So I want to say more about this. Now, you you you identified toxic relationship, and then you go landed in the hospital. So there's gotta be a lot that's going on in between this, but what what made those two things kind of like allow the light to like just beam in on you and

Leaving A Toxic Relationship

SPEAKER_05 10:11

be like, okay, girl, what's going on here? What was it that actually did it?

SPEAKER_00 10:18

So, first it was a toxic relationship. So I had been with this person for a while, and it was toxic in the sense that there were a lot of like ebbs and flows. Like, we're together, it's fine, we're not together, it's not fine, we're together, it's fine. So it was a lot of like and all of this happened when I had people around me, and so it became a thing where my friends were like, We're good, like we got you, girl. Next time we'll be here. Yes, because that was the thing. Next time we'll be here. And so that I started internalizing that. I mean, I didn't know anything about coaching back then, it wasn't like early 20s, but I'm like, wait, why are people saying next time we'll be here? Next time, yeah. Like there was a pattern. And so and they were, yeah. I mean, the next time they were there, yeah. But something interesting happened that I was in the middle of an island, so I was in Hawaii, about to move my life there. So basically my whole apartment was there already. And when you talk about, I was led to put the microphone, I was led to leave this relationship. Okay. Because something like truly divine happened, and I'll give you like the cliff notes, where we're in Hawaii, and we happen to meet a couple. She is a Mexican girl from Monterrey, I'm a Mexican girl from Mexico City. We kind of like clicked, it was cool. I found out later that she wasn't his wife or any, like they she had a husband.

SPEAKER_05 12:05

Oh, there you go. Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:07

Yeah, and so I'm like, wait, so okay, this is fascinating. The last night I'm there, I'm about to come back to San Diego to pick up all my stuff and then finally move there. We're in the kitchen, we're about to go to dinner, and the guys are upstairs getting ready, and we just happen to be by ourselves in the kitchen. Without prompting anything, without me saying anything, she paused and she looked at me and she said, You know, he's gonna give you a ring. You're gonna have his babies. And if you stay, you're gonna become me. And I don't feel anything.

unknown 12:46

Whoa.

SPEAKER_00 12:47

And my husband is now deployed, and look at what I'm doing, and you don't need to do this. And then the the guys came downstairs, and I was like, What just happened?

SPEAKER_06 13:00

Yeah, like my face is right now. Do you know what I'm saying? Okay, keep going.

SPEAKER_00 13:05

Whoa, yeah, and so that happened, and like the whole night I'm thinking, like, why did this woman just like say this to me like random? And so we went through the night. The next morning, I am cleaning, and you like I found stuff. The point is that I found stuff. And what I realized is that earlier when I said my friends would say, We'll be here next time, I was in the middle of nowhere in the world where I didn't have anyone. Yeah, so that next time happened by myself. And I couldn't call this girl because she was already doing her thing. And so I literally paused and I said, This is your moment to make a decision. Are you going to become her or are you not? Because you now have a choice and your friends are not here to save you. And so I got in the shower and I cried it out, which is what I knew to do at the time. And literally, I asked the water in that moment to help me release whatever I needed to. I left the clo the house clean. I left for food for a week, and then he took me to the airport. He thought I was gonna come back. And on the way to the airport, I broke up with him and I thanked him, actually. So I wrote him a letter and I said, you know what? I want to thank you so much for the pain that you gave me because I would never let anyone do that to me again. And I chose myself.

SPEAKER_05 14:39

Oh my goodness. Uh you're gonna notice.

SPEAKER_00 14:44

But I did have divine divine intervention by the.

SPEAKER_05 14:46

Well, there's no doubt about that, but you're gonna notice throughout this interview, I am going to pause. Yes. Because what is being said needs no words behind it. And I picked up on two things. I call that the sacred pause. And you just said you paused and then you made a decision. So the sacred pause went into action, and then you went into action. And I'm gonna put you on a spot because I think you can handle this. You're a Latina, you could you can definitely handle this. I want you to speak to that listener right now that's in that relationship. I want you to be the other woman speaking to you, to that person right now, from a coach perspective. Use your coaching and just speak to them because they're gonna come to this podcast. I can tell you right now it's gonna happen. Because we were put together for a reason today, and let's utilize

Career Nudges And Exit Plans

SPEAKER_05 15:52

that time. The floor is yours.

SPEAKER_00 15:54

Yeah, I would say think about how important it is for you to choose yourself first. Because if there is a little nudge that says it's time to go, then it's time to go.

SPEAKER_03 16:13

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 16:14

After this relationship, what I learned in my current relationship with the love of my life is that relationships are easy. There's not one tiny bit of partnership at all.

SPEAKER_03 16:28

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00 16:29

And so if anyone is whoever's listening, is in a relationship that feels like work, it's time to go. Nothing it's forced. Human communication is beautiful and it's to be spacious and fun and deep. And yeah, there's going to be some disagreements, but not painful. We're not here to suffer. And so when another human makes you suffer, we're not plants, we can move.

SPEAKER_03 16:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:59

And so choosing yourself is so important.

SPEAKER_05 17:01

Yeah, I love it. Choosing yourself. Now, let's go. So you just talked about relationship, and you made a critical decision to leave a career, right? So, so same point. Now, I will say this I didn't make that decision. The decision was made for me. I held on too long, and I will say five years too long. And I we can talk a little bit more about that later. But now speak to the person that's in that career, that they're getting the nudges. The nudges are screaming at them, and they're like, No, but my life is really good right now.

SPEAKER_06 17:36

You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_05 17:37

Speak to that person.

SPEAKER_00 17:40

Well, I think our bodies always communicate with us and they give us and so I started with getting sick. I I would work and wake up with my laptop on my chest because I fell asleep working.

SPEAKER_02 17:57

Yeah, you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 17:59

And eventually, and I remember my mom would always say, I would be like, Oh my gosh, I'm home sick. And she'd be like, Yeah, because your body's forcing you to rest.

SPEAKER_06 18:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:09

Because you work too much.

SPEAKER_06 18:10

Yeah, say that again. Say that again. Your body's forcing you.

SPEAKER_00 18:13

Your body forces you to slow down, take a nap, and rest it out. Yes. Because if we don't choose to do it, the body will do it.

SPEAKER_03 18:22

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 18:23

And so those were the little signals that I was getting from myself to say you're overdoing it. And I mean, I did this to myself. I also am big like on self-responsibility. I didn't listen to the nudges until it was like time.

SPEAKER_03 18:41

Absolutely. Yes. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:43

And so I was working way too hard. I wasn't making enough. I it was one of those things that this is why I think people in tech move so much because you can jump salaries so much faster than staying in one place.

SPEAKER_05 18:56

One place, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:57

And so I literally one day I was like, you know what? I'm done. I'm done. And so what I would say to the person that is getting the nudges is start listening to the nudges and start making an exit plan. Because, same as with a relationship, if if it starts feeling like it doesn't bring you joy, fulfillment, excitement, then it might be time to start planning the exit. Because also your nervous system cannot take just an abrupt ending.

SPEAKER_03 19:33

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 19:33

You know, it's so much easier to start making a plan. So that's when I say, do as I say, not as I did. Because I literally, I was like, I'm done. Too much. And then put my two weeks, and then two weeks later, I was like, oh, I guess I work for myself now.

SPEAKER_05 19:48

Yes, exactly. Yes. Wow. So so Coach Pam, I I sense I know what you're passionate about, but I want you to tell the listener, well, what are you passionate about? Like, what gets you? Oh, actually, let me use your word. What makes

Women Using Their Voice Again

SPEAKER_05 20:07

you stay in the place of being well? Okay, right? So what is it that does that for you?

SPEAKER_00 20:17

When women can use their voice again to create an impact.

SPEAKER_05 20:22

Say it again. I have three daughters, so listen, I know. Do you understand what I'm saying? Say it again. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 20:32

I think what makes me well is to see a world where women have a space to exist, to be safe, to express themselves without consequences, to create legacies, to build wealth. Because when women make money, the world gets better. It's been proven.

SPEAKER_03 20:53

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 20:53

But in order for women to feel safe to make money, the world has to be safe.

SPEAKER_05 20:57

Yes. So what do we do? I mean, as a coach, how do we how do we do this? How do we help women feel seen? Do you understand what I'm saying? And I mean seen in the fullness. You know what I mean? Not like covering yourself up plastic-wise, but I mean being authentic. How do we do this?

SPEAKER_00 21:22

Well, I think I was my first client, always.

SPEAKER_01 21:28

There you go.

SPEAKER_00 21:29

And so through my own inner work, and coaching changed my life, obviously, this is why I'm a coach. I discovered that there are some programming that we go through. And I had to deprogram myself a lot. And I'm still deprogramming myself. So it's almost like, you know, when your computer gets an update, like we need to get like several updates throughout our lifetime. You know, this is not like a one scene.

SPEAKER_06 22:00

A one and done, right? Yes, go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 22:02

Like virus continue to enter. And so I forgot the question. But I I started with myself, and then that's how I began developing a body of work now that is it's more of a methodology where I found the patterns that first generation Latinas grow up with.

SPEAKER_04 22:25

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 22:26

That I call them the five wounds of silence cult culture. In Spanish, it's calladita culture.

SPEAKER_04 22:32

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 22:33

And so those five wounds are inherited, passed on, programmed onto us. We grew up hearing them. And

The Five Wounds Of Silence

SPEAKER_00 22:41

when I tell people about this, I I look at it from the my own lived experience lens.

SPEAKER_03 22:47

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 22:48

Which is why I talk about first and lathines, which is who I am.

unknown 22:52

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 22:52

And who the majority of my clients are. And when other cultures hear it, they're like, oh, we live through that too. And I'm like, yeah. I mean, it's not limited to just us. Right. But that's how I teach.

SPEAKER_05 23:03

No, no. I I was about to say, because now you had me. I was really about to say, so tell me what the five are. But before you do, I want to point in on the fact that you said the inner work. Right? So let's go and talk a little bit about the inner work because that's the work that lasts.

SPEAKER_00 23:29

That is the work that lasts, correct. So the inner work, the way that I see the inner work is reprogramming the program.

SPEAKER_04 23:36

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 23:38

So it's really tuning inward to say, what is the whisper that I often hear that tells me I cannot do it? And this is all about accepting what is. Because it's not that your grandmother would always say it, it's not about blaming externally how it got to you. It's about saying, Oh, well, because everyone in my lineage heard it, I internalized it, and therefore I'm now carrying it. Does that mean that I need to keep carrying it? No. Does that mean that I'm going to blame the other people for no? Because they like that's not my problem. Everyone, like your work is the inner work because you would do the inner work. And so we just catch the program. We say, oh, well, this is an inherited program. So I'm choosing to reprogram it. And that's it.

SPEAKER_05 24:26

It sounds easy. Isn't that easy to do? No, I no, no, no. I know it's not easy. But here's what I want to say to you because what you just defined, I call that the protective self.

SPEAKER_00 24:37

Yes.

SPEAKER_05 24:38

It's the self that we developed in order to survive all the stuff that we were in. Okay. This is getting awesome, y'all.

SPEAKER_06 24:50

I just hope y'all get excited like me. Okay.

SPEAKER_05 24:54

Share the five. What are the five?

SPEAKER_00 24:57

So the five wounds. The wound of silence.

SPEAKER_05 24:59

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 25:01

The wound of worth.

SPEAKER_05 25:02

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 25:03

The wound of power.

SPEAKER_05 25:05

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 25:07

The wound of commitment.

SPEAKER_05 25:08

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_00 25:10

And the wound of identity.

SPEAKER_05 25:12

Yes. Oh wow.

SPEAKER_00 25:15

Now, here's the kicker.

SPEAKER_05 25:17

Come on.

SPEAKER_00 25:18

The wounds are like toggles. You can be undercompensated or overcompensated in the wounds. Because, for example, I'm Mexican. Typically, I'm not doing generalizations from the hundreds of people that I've coached. What I have noticed is that the wound of silence, for example, for me, I'm undercompensated on the wound of silence because I grew up hearing you look prettier when you're quiet. And so I tend to stay quiet.

SPEAKER_03 25:54

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 25:55

You know, I tend to just not like hold my words. There are women that have like typically black women, Caribbean women, people from South, like South America, they grow up very different. Yes. They're overcompensated.

SPEAKER_03 26:11

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 26:12

Be louder.

unknown 26:13

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 26:13

You can be louder because they've fought so much to be louder, right? Either way, you're not heard. That's where the wind of silence comes in.

SPEAKER_03 26:22

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 26:23

Because you're either too quiet or too loud. Still the wind of silence. Now, the point is not to get to the middle, the point is to find the truest version of you that's not performing. Because I can be quiet and still be powerful. Because when I open my mouth, I'm saying my truth, and then that changes the room.

SPEAKER_03 26:43

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 26:44

But I'm doing it with certainty, not with performance.

SPEAKER_05 26:49

Ooh. Okay. I caught that.

SPEAKER_00 26:55

I know.

SPEAKER_05 26:56

With certainty, not performance. Because what you're talking about is I have been making this statement for about, well, actually since COVID. And the statement is this that we as humans have been programmed to worship our wounds and trauma and not live from who we are. You know, and now it seems to me I've noticed that wounds and trauma is currency now. But not the currency that gets you to that place of search. Girl, this is on fire right now. Right? Do you understand what I'm saying? Is it like it's this, it's it's okay, it's not the wealth that you're talking about. That's exactly so they can get wealth, but it is not the wealth that actually allows you to be who you were. Truly. Yes, exactly. Oh, correct. Oh, whoo! Come on, y'all. You gotta get this. I'm hoping you get in this. Now, in this essence, I want to go somewhere,

Coaching Certainty Over Confidence

SPEAKER_05 28:12

but I'm gonna focus right here because you just you said something. You said coaching has changed your life. So I want you to share how the we say it in ICF, the power of coaching. How has the power of coaching changed you personally?

SPEAKER_00 28:30

Because it allowed me to see myself. I think like the other day I was talking to a client and she was like, Well, I asked my robot, you know, whatever AI tool she uses.

SPEAKER_03 28:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:44

And it just agreed with me.

SPEAKER_03 28:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:48

And I'm like, of course it did. Because you're paying the thing to agree with you. Exactly. You're not paying me to agree with you. And so the power of coaching has allowed me to see myself in the mirror in a way that I get to face the truth and the reality without any masks. And when you do that, then you can build certainty because there's no performance. The stage is yours and you are the witness of it.

SPEAKER_05 29:21

Okay, girl. Repeat that again. The stage is yours. Come on. You're drunk. You're in the audience.

SPEAKER_06 29:28

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 29:29

I mean the stage is yours and you witness yourself. You get to watch yourself perform. Or start from certainty, speak your truth from your foundation.

SPEAKER_05 29:41

Wow. Just let that settle. Because, see, in these moments when we we have these divine moments and conversations, it touches us in a way that we may not get it now, but we might be driving down the freeway and we hear your voice, and we hear that voice, and it's like, oh, that is me. You know what I'm saying? And like, I the audience, they can't see it, but we both have this smile on our face. And I think that's what coaching has done for both of us, right? It's allowed us the place where we can just be us. You know what I mean? Like, I'm from New York, I speak in broken English, and I really don't care about it, right? It's like, hey, show up, be you, and allow yourself to impact the lives of the people that have been led to you. Mm-hmm. So at this stage, Pam, of your life, what do you do or and and work? How do you stay grounded? Right? When outcomes and situations are uncertain or pressure is high, how do you show up?

SPEAKER_00 30:59

Well, and my b I I work a lot with my body. I think we'll live in a in a world that teaches you to think too much. And I when I started working on my doing my inner work, which frankly it started when I was like 11 years old. Yeah, exactly. Right.

SPEAKER_05 31:22

We just never noticed it, right?

SPEAKER_00 31:24

Right. Like now I know. Yes. But when I was more conscious about it, I started, and I have ADHD, which is another thing that my anxiety is that it's high, my dopamine is low. Like there's a lot of things with my brain that I've had to learn to work with. And so I would constantly, I'm always coaching myself, you know, like once a coach, always a coach, or self-coaching all the time. And I asked myself once, how when was the time when you felt the most connected to yourself? And I was a dancer, like once a dancer, I guess, always a dancer. So I would

Grounding Through Movement And Somatics

SPEAKER_00 32:02

perform. And I remember one time I had a boyfriend back then, and he came to one of my performances and he was like, When you're on stage dancing, it's when I see the truest version of you. And so I kind of like file that in my memory bank. And so when I was self-coaching, like, when is the time when I'm the most me? Yes. And it's when I'm in my body.

SPEAKER_01 32:27

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 32:28

And so it isn't when I'm performing, it's when I connected to this vessel that carries my soul.

SPEAKER_03 32:34

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 32:35

And so when you ask, how do I stay grounded is through movement. And movement, whether is I get up and I go for a walk, or I just do like a little quick dance by myself in the bathroom.

SPEAKER_04 32:47

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 32:48

Or I splash water in my body so I can get back to connecting to my nervous system and my bagus nerve. And I do a lot of somatic work because being connected to this external part of myself allows me to stay connected to the inner part of myself that drives who I am.

SPEAKER_05 33:07

So, what role does nature play in this? Being outdoors.

SPEAKER_00 33:15

I learn so much from the earth because I teach actually a lot about women's cycles and the seasons of the earth are the cycles that women go through every month.

SPEAKER_01 33:31

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 33:31

Winter, spring, summer, autumn. And so I remind myself as I navigate a month, where am I in my inner seasons? If I am in my cycle, I'm in winter. What does the earth teach us about winter? In winter, you rest. In winter, you're not

Nature Cycles And Women’s Seasons

SPEAKER_00 33:52

being a social butterfly because everyone's hibernating. So when you're in winter, you chill out.

SPEAKER_03 33:59

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 33:59

You don't do a lot of networking events or hang out with people. You just do the bare minimum because that's what your body needs in that moment, just like Mama Earth teaches us. What happens after winter comes spring. So it's a follicular stage. Spring is when you're a social butterfly. Go network, go meet with your friends, go do some front-facing conversations with people. Summer is ovulation, so it's the most confident.

SPEAKER_01 34:27

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 34:27

It's a great time to do some sales. Go pitch something. Do something that makes you feel confident. Go on dates, you know, like do whatever you want.

SPEAKER_04 34:35

Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 34:36

The earth is our best. It's my best teacher.

SPEAKER_04 34:40

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 34:41

Because when I feel disconnected, then I go back and I say, Well, what would Mama Earth do in her cycles? Because humans are cyclical. We grow and we evolve and we change and we we are we're always constantly changing. And so nature to me is the first and biggest teacher that I have. That is literally, I just need to go outside and ask.

unknown 35:04

Wow.

SPEAKER_05 35:05

Okay, you're not going, yeah, you will believe this, but I was just having a conversation with my my daughter yesterday. And we were talking about, are you ready for this? Tell me. Holding on to seasons that have already passed.

SPEAKER_06 35:25

Do you not see what just happened right now?

SPEAKER_05 35:28

This is like you can't make this up.

unknown 35:32

Nice.

SPEAKER_05 35:32

Right? You're showing up as who you are. I'm showing up. And then you just gave me even more understanding of the seasons and how in a month you can go through all the seasons. It's like man, Pam, this is like, this is yeah, I'm speechless, y'all. I just want you to listen to this. I am absolutely speechless on what you just said to me. Because I understand seasons and I look at them from a spiritual perspective in the same way that you just said it. And at times you could be in a season for years. Do you know what I'm saying? And it's like, what's going on? Well, it's not that it's going on, you're just in this season, the season of rest. Well, but I don't want to be in rest. Well, you can fight to get out of it, but what's going to happen on the other side of that? So for that person, I just need you to pause, hit pause on this one, and go backwards and listen to what Coach Pam just said, because that to me was phenomenal. It was greater than well. That was phenomenal on how you did that. So as we go to this point, I want you to how do

Wholeness As Certainty And The Bridge

SPEAKER_05 36:56

you define wholeness? Because we hear a lot of buzzwords about wholeness, but how do you define it and bring all of your coaching and your life experience into helping women live from their place of wholeness?

SPEAKER_00 37:15

I would say certainty.

SPEAKER_05 37:17

Ooh.

SPEAKER_00 37:19

Because actually, I was in a coaching call with my business coach, and she said, I think you're a confidence coach. And I'm like, oh no, ma'am. Because confidence is performative. I am a certainty coach.

SPEAKER_06 37:34

Oh, girl, come on. Wait, hold on. You you gotta say that again. Say it one more. Just that little buzz. Confidence.

SPEAKER_00 37:41

Confidence is performative.

SPEAKER_05 37:42

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 37:43

We are taught to, we're socialized to fake it till you make it. Which sometimes could work. Like I faked it till I made it. Like I don't know if I made it, but I faked it.

SPEAKER_03 37:54

Right, right.

SPEAKER_00 37:55

Did it get me places potentially, but it didn't make me feel certain.

SPEAKER_03 37:59

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 38:00

And so certainty to me is a way to be to be whole, to, to embrace your wholeness. Because I I speak in metaphor of every coach of me. But I I talk often about the bridge that first gen women don't get. So if I look at my husband, for example, who's a white man, he was born with a bridge pretty solidly built.

SPEAKER_01 38:29

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 38:29

You know, he was born at point A, and his bridge was built to his career, let's say, that's point B. B. And there's like all these things already in it. He just had to fill in the blanks a little bit.

SPEAKER_03 38:41

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 38:42

Because the world was built in a way that serves him. For me as a first gen, I arrived at the beginning of my bridge with a lot of spaces and had to, I had to literally bring my tools to do it.

SPEAKER_05 38:54

You had to do the work to get the okay, girl. Come on, come on, keep going. Yes.

SPEAKER_00 38:59

Certainty is built as a foundation of your wholeness. So it's the floor of the bridge. And I see my certainty as a way to say, look, I'm Brazilian because I've been able to literally, I came to this country with a piece of luggage and a dream. And I was 19 years old. And look at where I am. So I've been building my bridge. Yes. Literally, brick by brick.

SPEAKER_02 39:25

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 39:26

And there's still a lot of holes. I still don't have a lot of answers. I still don't have a lot of resources. I still don't have a lot of things. And I'm using this as a part of my lived experience allows me to be whole and certain because I've proven myself that I can do it.

SPEAKER_03 39:42

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 39:43

And so wholeness to me is to show up to be with the most certainty that you have already built yourself with what you've already done. Your lived experience allows you to back it up.

SPEAKER_05 39:59

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 39:59

And sometimes we often dismiss it.

SPEAKER_05 40:02

Okay. Say more about that if you're willing, because that is that's a that's a trick, right?

SPEAKER_00 40:08

It's 100% a trick. And to your point earlier of we use the wounds as in the trauma as, you know, flip it.

SPEAKER_03 40:17

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 40:17

This is a very coachy reframe. You know, flip it to use it as a strength. I'm very proud to say English is not my first language, but look at me. I can communicate in this language and I speak too.

SPEAKER_03 40:30

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 40:31

So come at me if I say a wrong, uh, a word wrong, or if I flip the grammar in some ways.

SPEAKER_03 40:37

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 40:38

I'm thinking I'm thinking in two languages.

SPEAKER_03 40:40

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 40:41

How many are you thinking about? You know? And so I think people often see their wounds and the lived experience as a disadvantage. And in fact, I was I was in a on a call when there was another coach who said, you know, English is not my first language. And sometimes I I get insecure. And I was like, why? Because you're thinking in two languages. Like there's a small percentage of the population that can actually do that.

SPEAKER_03 41:11

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 41:11

I own the fact that sometimes I don't have the word in English. And I literally I say it in Spanish. And I'm like, you know what? I actually have the word in Spanish. So let me just say it in Spanish because that helps my brain open the file cabinet and be like, oh, this is the actual word in English.

SPEAKER_03 41:25

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 41:26

And so I think the invitation is for people to think about their lived experience as part of their certainty, their wholeness. Because that's those are the bricks that have built them as human beings. And when society tells us that those are our weaknesses, it's actually the opposite.

SPEAKER_05 41:45

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 41:46

Nobody has that.

SPEAKER_05 41:48

And here's the thing is I so appreciate what you just did. Because in that moment, you literally decided to what you were thinking, you said, you know what, I'm no longer gonna think it. I'm gonna put it out on a floor, and I'm gonna live in that. And that is living by the power of truth. Isn't that it's like it's incredible, but it's it's a discipline, or no, no, actually, it's not a discipline. It's the inner work that we do to live in that place where we can put it on the floor. And it's like you can take it or not, it doesn't matter. I'm certain, girl, I'm I'm running with certain. I'm telling you right now, world look out because certain is like certainty. I never looked at it from that perspective. There's so much depth.

SPEAKER_00 42:41

Nobody can shake you when you're certain.

SPEAKER_05 42:42

No, exactly. Right? I want you to do something. I as you were talking, like my mind is blown right now, but as you were talking about showing up with the tools to build the bridge, right? And there's holes still in the bridge,

Owning Lived Experience Without Apology

SPEAKER_05 43:02

but I want you to take a moment and just metaphorically look back and see who's walking on that bridge now. Do you do you understand what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_06 43:14

It's like what's up, y'all? Do you see what I mean?

SPEAKER_00 43:18

It's like and acknowledging even the fact that you got a little bridge built.

SPEAKER_05 43:23

Come on, girl, come on. Oh my goodness, I am having a moment right now because I think that's the the essence of where the work that we need to start shouting from the rooftop. You are so what? You're a hundred yards into building the bridge, but you're a hundred yards in. Do you understand what I'm saying? And I think it's like, whoa, Pam, you firing me up. You are literally firing me up right now. So as we get ready to wrap this up, I have two questions. And these are kind of my, I want to call them legacy questions, right? And the first one is, is as you reflect on your journey, your personal lived experience journey, what do you hope people feel or experience in your presence before they attempt to change anything?

SPEAKER_00 44:23

I hope to see a mirror of what it's like to be certain.

unknown 44:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 44:32

So that they can own their truth, their power, their story without apology. Yes. Because everyone is different and everyone's the same. I was reading the other day, humans, regardless of who you are, we share 90% of our DNA.

SPEAKER_06 44:49

Yes. Isn't that quite freaking amazing, right? Isn't it? It's like mind-blowing.

SPEAKER_00 44:57

Totally. And so what I'm hoping when people experience my presence is see a little bit of themselves reflected, yeah, and see find another tool for their bridge.

SPEAKER_03 45:15

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 45:17

Even if it's a tiny nail or a piece of wood.

SPEAKER_05 45:19

Yeah. And but think about it, it's not tiny, right? It's it's the it's a nail that helps the you see what I'm saying? It's like holding it together. Yes. So thank you, Pam. I I I am just so blessed that you and I were able to get connected today. So now, lastly, I want you to speak to the person that's listening to this podcast. What do you hope they take away? Because I I know what I want for them, girl. You have just completely zeroed in on it.

Always Having A Choice

SPEAKER_05 45:57

What do you what do you hope for them? What do you want for them?

SPEAKER_00 46:01

I want them to remember that they always have a choice.

unknown 46:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:07

So whatever decision they may need to make, I'm always a very list, like, okay, choice number one and choice number two. Maybe it's choice number three or number four. Because we get to write it.

SPEAKER_05 46:23

Yeah. Oh.

SPEAKER_00 46:26

So choose what's best for you.

SPEAKER_05 46:29

Yeah. I just caught that. See, that was just very subtle. Choice number one, choice number two, and we get to write it. We're we're writing the choices, right?

SPEAKER_00 46:42

So it's like you get to write them and you get to choose them.

SPEAKER_05 46:45

Exactly. And that's where certainty comes in, right?

SPEAKER_00 46:49

That is where certainty comes in.

SPEAKER_05 46:50

Oh, Pam, this has been absolutely amazing. So thank you. Thank you so much. This is just a lot of fun, Donna. Thank you for sharing your time with me.

SPEAKER_00 47:01

Thank you.