Comic Boom - The Comics in Education Podcast: Yo Comics! A Comics Fair for and by Kids!

In this episode Lucy is joined by Helen Jones and Hannah Lee Miller, the Co-Driectors of Yo Comics - a Comics Fair for and by Kids, run in South London at Stanley Arts.

Helen Jones is a lecturer in Primary Education at UCL Institute of Education and a PhD candidate at Goldsmiths. Alongside Lucy Starbuck Braidley, she has written a soon to be published book about comics in the classroom. Helen edited the book Children’s Literature In Action and has published her work academically.

You can access her previous episode on Comic Boom, where she discusses her research further here.

Hannah Lee Miller has worked for many years in chidlren's television production, including shows like Peppa Pig and Hey Dugee. She is also an artistwho creates her own comics and has organised multiple events including comics fair. 

This episode of Comic Boom is sponsored by ALCS, The Authors Licensing and Collecting Society.

Hannah's Recommendation:

Spiral Bound by Aaron Renier

Helen's Recommendation:

Comic in the Classroom by Helen Jones and Lucy Starbuck Braidley

Lucy's Recommendation:

Delicious in Dungeon by Ryoko Kui

Follow the podcast:
Insta: @comic_boom_podcast
Twitter/X: @Lucy_Braidley
Bluesky: @comicboom.bsky.social

Contact: comicboompodcast@gmail.com

Music by John_Sib from Pixabay

Transcript

0:05

Hello and welcome to Comic Boom, the Comics and Education podcast. If you're interested in hearing more about the crossover between comics and education, then this is the podcast for you. My name is Lucy Starbuck Braidley, and each week I'll be joined by a fellow educator, an academic, a librarian, or a creator of comics to discuss their journey into comics and provide some inspiration to influence your practice. And hopefully shine some light on some titles you can bring into your libraries, classrooms, and onto your bookshelves at home too. This episode of Comic Boom is sponsored by A LCS, the author's licensing and collecting society. And today on this episode, we have a pair, a brilliant pair of, people giving back to the comics community, providing something for children to promote the creation of comics and the reading of comics in their community. We have Helen Jones and Hannah Miller. Hannah Lee Miller has worked for many years in children's television production, including on shows like pepper Pig and hay Dougie. I have to say, I did not know about the hay Dougie thing before I interviewed her. In which case we would've spoken about hay Dougie.'cause I love hay Dougie. She is also an artist who creates her own comics and has organized multiple events including comic fairs. Hannah brings with her a large amount of knowledge, contacts, and experience in small press comics from making to selling and networking. And Helen Jones you may remember, has been on the podcast before. I will link to her previous episode in the show notes. Helen is a lecturer in primary education at UCL, the Institute of Education, very prestigious, and a PhD candidate at Goldsmiths. And we talk about her PhD work in detail in the previous episode and her journey into comics and how she became interested in their. Application in education. So that's definitely worth the listen if you haven't listened to it yet. alongside Lucy Starbeck Brady. That's me. she's written a book soon to be published about comics in the classroom. Really, really excited about that collaboration. Absolutely loved working with Helen on that book, and we talk about it a little bit at the end of this podcast, and I'm sure I'll come back to it again in the future. It was a real labor of love, and I'm very proud of it. Helen edited the book Children's Literature in Action and has published her work academically. And she's a co-director with Hannah Miller of Yo Comics, which is a comics fair for and by young people. It's a brilliant initiative. It's run in South Norwood in South London. We are gonna be talking all about. Your comics today, it's coming up soon, but really the point of the episode is What can we do to promote more? Of these kinds of comics fairs for children and young people to start happening around the country where we can learn from people who are doing it. And that's why Hannah and Helen are on the podcast today to talk about how they came about running your comics. Some of the things that they've learned. They did it last year, this is the second year coming up., And I found it just an absolutely fascinating conversation, and so much to learn. So inspiring. there are some moments in this episode where some of the sound quality slightly dips out, I have kept some of those elements in you can still hear, you can, it's very easy to make out what's being said and the value of what's being talked about is so important. So there are, be aware that there are a few dips and sound quality, but you should still be able to enjoy this episode. All the same. here's what Hannah and Helen have to say.

Lucy 3:22

Hello, Hannah and Helen. Welcome to Comic Boom.

Hannah 3:24

Hello.

Lucy 3:25

Welcome to the podcast. It is great to have you here. We've got, an interesting combo of one returning guest and one brand new person to two. So we're gonna start with our. fresh meat. Hannah, can you tell us a little bit about your sort of personal journey into comics? were they something you got into as a child? Was it more as an adult? tell us a bit about your reading journey.

Hannah 3:44

So, I was very lucky to have parents who loved, comics. Mainly the sort of strips, the, Charlie Brown, Snoopy, Garfield, Pogo Possum, which is a little less known in the uk.

Lucy 3:59

I never heard of Hogo possum.

Hannah 4:01

So it's just brilliant. And it was the meme of the household we were referred to as Tads, which is, it's short for tadpoles, which is, in Pogo as well. there was asterisk, Tintin. I think a lot of families had these, but, my dad invested the enthusiasm and I just. Carried on the journey. so, and we all had the beo. I had the beo, my brother had the dandy, my sister had Bunty, Mandy, and all the other girl ones. and we would, and we'd get, commando the little mini comics that used to get when you're going to the seaside and we'd get a little, and there was commando and you'd get mini, mini binos and mini, So it was definitely, definitely something that was, part of life at home. And, I'm just outraged that not everyone has this and it isn't in everybody's

Lucy 4:52

that sounds amazing. It sounds like it's a really part of your like family culture.

Hannah 4:55

Oh, very much.

Lucy 4:57

Did you, was it part of your school life as well? thinking about the audience being educators here, I'm always interested to know whether it felt very separate

Hannah 5:04

There was things that did cross over, so things like Garfield, you would find other kids at school that would like Garfield, but you, they wouldn't know. They, they might know Tintin or, I, I don't think it ever came across in primary school and, and definitely not in secondary school, completely vanished and I spent the rest from. Probably from secondary school onwards, searching for other people who liked comics, which was hard. And it was usually boys as well. I'd find boys and I went to an all girls school, so there's no, I couldn't find comic

Lucy 5:39

thin on the ground there boys.

Hannah 5:41

Yeah. And so when I, when I hung out with boys, I remember one guy's house just had a, a shelf full wall to wall of books of 2000 ad and I would just, I'd just ignore everyone. I'd sit down, grab one of them. Whatever else. I was a teen, early teen, then I was just devour with them, but yeah, not at school.

Lucy 6:03

And I think when you're like adults that are involved in comics and interested in comics, you surround yourself with lots of other adults, but actually it's not a mainstream thing really for, for adults to be, especially not women, I don't think to be really engaged with comics. Again, it's easy to think that they are,'cause I know so many women who are involved in comics. but in terms of something being in the mainstream, it's really not, I don't think at the moment part of. Typical adult reading culture why do you think you've, you've maintained that through, through to adulthood. What was the secret of keeping that in your life, do you think?

Hannah 6:34

I think, I think there was a bit of a culture thing there, like I identified with the sort of subculture element. and so that intrigued me. there was definitely, I remember the bridging the gap between children, comics, children friendly, all age comics to things that are really not for kids. I remember I started collecting furry freak brothers. That was my first, I'm going to intentionally collect my own. And I would, it was the way I would cope with comic shops, which were very male and very uncomfortable. I would be like, I'm here to get the next issue of furry freak brothers. And it helped me like just zone out everybody that, that made me feel uncomfortable there. I remember there were some. tween age comics out there, like Zit they were like, oh, vis Izzy Child friendly versions.

Lucy 7:27

it? I think it's still quite a difficult thing to. Support people once they've aged out of something, that they were reading. It's, it is not always simple to find them something new,

Hannah 7:38

I've definitely reverted back as an adult to all age comics. I realized that though the adult comics can sometimes be a little uncomfortable.

Lucy 7:46

Mm.

Hannah 7:47

and go into quite dark materials when actually what I want, what I want is escapism and, and relaxation. So all ages, comics, they're just joyful pretty much even in this ad.

Lucy 8:00

Yeah. And so how do, that's gives us a little bit of a clue, but how are comics, in the broadest sense, how do comics, how do they part of your life now?

Hannah 8:08

They fill my shelves, my shelves. I have like three bookshelves full of comics and, graphic novels, my, my interests. But, I, I tried to make my own. I don't think I'm ever as good as I'd like to be. and, uh, done tabling and sold my mini comics and now I try and arrange comic fairs, just'cause I think they need to happen. They, they have to happen and they don't seem to be happening in London at the minute, so it's, they have to,

Lucy 8:40

Yeah.

Hannah 8:41

yeah, so it's very present in my life. It's ev. Yeah, it's my jam.

Lucy 8:46

Amazing. Helen, we're gonna move on to you for a for a minute. Anyone interested in hearing about your early start as a comics reader? All of that sort of stuff can go back to your previous episode, which I'll link in the show notes. I hope that makes you feel fancy. so we're gonna ask you a slightly different question, which is just a little bit of an update since we've last, had you on the podcast. It's been a while. is there anything you've been adding to your reading diet? What can you share with us that's been, interesting you lately?

Helen 9:12

yeah, I mean, you said what have I've been adding since I last was on the podcast, and it's loads loads, so I can't talk to you about it for an

Lucy 9:19

Yeah, don't list it all. Don't list it. all. No, just some highlights, please.

Helen 9:23

so I think I've been really, I mean, I, I really liked the middle grade young adults. Comics, graphic novels, and particularly ones I've been reading recently, so Jen Wang Ashe's Cabin, which is just a really lovely story, sort of coming of age story and about sort of discovering herself and, and running into the mountains to do so. and also how it all ends by Emma Hung Singer. Which again, sort of coming of age, teenage story and sort of about both of them, about finding your identity really in your teenage years. but what I love both about'em is actually they're quite. Sort of experimental in their comics form.

Lucy 9:58

Oh, I love that.

Helen 9:59

how it all ends. It's got absolutely no panels in it at all. and I often take it along to when I'm doing sessions about comics with, with students and sort of talking about what defines a comic. And people look at that one and they're like, well, wait a minute. There's no panels, so this can't be a comic. or it can't be, novel, but it is, it's marketed as and sold as one. so I think it's just really interesting the way it plays around with, with the art form. and I think I've been interested in that quite a lot as well. So looking at stuff, where comics are doing unusual or interesting things, so going along to comics, fairs, for example, you might pick out to comics or, or zines. so zines being. Self-published, it can be comics form, it can be more like a book. They can range across different ways. And some of the ones I've been really interested in are ones from, Colossus Press, who are local to us in cro and or Pen, I should say, for them. but

Lucy 10:53

Pen is a good word.

Helen 10:55

pen is a lovely word, apparently the most trendy place to live now in London. But

Lucy 11:00

Not surprised. Sounds good.

Helen 11:01

but they produce some really lovely ones called Colossal Cartographies, which sort of open up and you unfold them and you can play around with

Lucy 11:08

Yeah. That's so

Helen 11:09

Um, and then also I think some of the work by Lizzie Stewart. So she's publishing and she publishes both for children and for adults. but some of her work for adults. So for example, walking distance by her, I would say. Again, it's to plays around with the genre. Is it a comic? Is it a picture book? I would call it a picture book for adults in a way. But it's really fascinating the way she sort of combines different art forms again within it and prose and the comic art form as well,

Lucy 11:39

Can you tell us about yo comics, a little bit of a potted history. When did it start and what is it and what can people find there if they come along?

Hannah 11:48

So we did it for the first time last year. Yo Comics, it's comic fair by kids and for kids. and it's a mixture. We have a mixture of tables. So when I say tables, it's like a market. Table is. So a mixture of professionals who make comics for kids and kids who make comics and kids groups that make comics, and also a few charities and schools. And we also have workshops and a little quiet library room.

Lucy 12:19

I ran that last year and I loved that little library.

Hannah 12:22

smashed it out the park in a very

Lucy 12:24

it's very easy to do. I basic just sat in the corner, read comics all day, and everyone else wanted to do that too.

Helen 12:34

yeah, it sort of came about, I guess in, it started its life in 20, probably at the beginning of 2024, didn't it, Hannah? So I think both me and Hannah sort of had these ideas. And I'd previously been running comic fairs just in a school with children at a comics club that I had. of part of my PhD research. but the key thing about that was having comics fairs at the end of the comics making process. So the children really felt like publishers and they could share their work with others. they made some money out of it, which then went back into the comics club to buy resources for the following year. so also made the comic club sustainable. So I have been doing that and Hannah have been running sort of comic fairs. For a sort of adult or all ages audience, but we both really thought there'd be, there was really something missing in terms of having something specifically aimed at children and young people. And particularly at the moment when, comics have been, and graphic novels have been really taking off, in terms of the Phoenix, the Bino is still incredibly popular. but children really, really engaging with comics as a form. And that we felt that they needed something, a space for children to sort of, for that to be celebrated, to make it exciting and to have adult creators there. sometimes the children's heroes that they wanted to meet. but also having children alongside them, being able to sell and share their own comics was something that we felt was, was really needed. And, we wanted to create that space. For it. So yes, it starts off with an idea in 2024 and then came into reality in 2025,

Lucy 14:09

I mean, that's not bad turnaround for an idea, is it? Straight away. Got it. Got it. Going.

Hannah 14:14

Yeah, we just, we, we had the logistics sorted. and then it was just a case of, piecing it all together. I think for me it was important that kids fair needed to, to exist because of my experience tabling at other fairs where you would see parents and children and come, interested, wanting to engage. And I'd see them reach for a book and I'd be like, don't, don't read that. That's not suitable

Lucy 14:40

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Hannah 14:41

just didn't seem to be, a space where you could say this anything and everything is safe for a kid to read. And I believe in the freedom of comics and zines to, be able to express what they want and talk and create about lots of topics and dark issues and dark comedy and whatever they need to. But we also need to make sure that, younger people, Don't stumble upon, and I say stumble upon things that will upset and disturb them. And I say this because it's happened to me, because in my pleasure and enjoyment of comics, I've definitely come across things that have made me, uncomfortable and, spooked, freaked out in a, and, unsettling way at an age. I couldn't. Process it. And so I just feel that, to me, it was just very important to, to make a space that was completely safe for kids, where it was all accessible and fun. And so you could just share the love of comics without, causing a problem.

Lucy 15:41

I love that. And, and aside from the, kind of, from the content of the comics available, one of the things that struck me when you were talking at the start, Hannah, was that you were saying you were reflecting on times when you, within a space hadn't felt, Welcome or, comfortable. and how do you approach making Yo comics on the day and a kind of an accessible and inclusive space where, where young people feel a sense of ownership or belonging there? How do you approach that? It's not always easy to do for, for an, for adults to do that.

Hannah 16:13

I, I will, I will say the volunteers. make it happen. I think we've got some very welcoming and, positive and happy and joyful people that come and help us make it happen. And, in that, and, the kids come with their parents and watching the parents eyes light up and become like kids as well, engaging in all these things.

Lucy 16:35

yeah. I definitely observed some, a lot of parents in the library, a penny drop for some of them. Like, they're sat there, they're like, well, all right, my kid's reading now. What am I gonna do? Oh, I'll just pick this up and then be like, oh, oh, oh, this. This is why you read it. Oh, this is actually really funny. Or this is really, this has got great story. And just actually seeing some of them engage themself and realize that it is actually, there's some really good quality and worthwhile stuff out there to read. It was great. A bit of magic happening.

Helen 17:08

And I think that's, that's part of it too, is creating all those different spaces. So that's something we thought really carefully about was that we know sort of comic fairs can be quite sort of busy and noisy places. and we wanted bits of it to be busy and noisy. we have the megaphone comic zone where there was lots of making and creating going on. we had the workshops, which again, very buzzy and lots of involvement, but then with having the, the reading room as well as that sort of quiet space to go and sit in and there's bean bags and you can relax. So there was something for everybody in terms of sort of, what they wanted to go to as well within the comics Fair.

Lucy 17:43

That's great. and it was a huge success. was it. As popular as you were expecting? More popular? Were you on the day? Were you like, they're coming, they're coming. What was that like?

Helen 17:55

I think it was, it was quite terrifying, wasn't it, Hannah? Doing it for the first time because you're like, right, we're gonna do comics fair for children. And we're like, will anybody come? Who's gonna come to it? and I think the one thing we, I mean we've, last year we had, we have our, um, Instagram page and we put our workshop tickets on the Instagram page and all the workshops went within about sort of. 10, 15 minutes. so at which point we kind of had an idea that yes, it

Lucy 18:26

It's gonna be popular. Yeah.

Helen 18:29

some people are gonna be coming, because felt we got rid all the tickets, the workshops had gone. And I think then on the day it was just, it was just lovely, wasn't it?'cause people came, people stayed, for an hour. Some people stayed almost the whole day. But it was just amazing to see all the people and the, and the parents and people coming in engaging with it. and, hopefully as well, sort of reaching out the whole community. So it's based in safe London, but reaching out to the whole sort of community around. But we also have people coming from much further afield than safe London.

Hannah 18:59

Yeah, we, we had someone come all the way from Dublin,

Lucy 19:02

What.

Hannah 19:03

specifically for the fair. And I was pleased that they actually, we, we had a little raffle'cause we had, some really lovely signed posters, designed by Tol Freeman and

Lucy 19:13

looks great.

Hannah 19:14

she's amazing. and signed by, all the people that were, all the tables and stuff. So we had these three little raffles and the woman that came all the way from Dublin, won the, won one of those, which was, I just thought, yeah.

Lucy 19:26

as it should be. That's brilliant. Helen, I wanted to ask you a little bit more. You mentioned your PhD research, and having done. Some different format, comics, Faires, with children in the past. And I'm just wondering how that research built into this, were you able to draw things from that where you think like, these are, this is something that we definitely to include based on your research?

Helen 19:49

yeah, absolutely. So I think as I was saying that I ran a comics fair 5, 5, 6 years on and off in a primary school. And, it was part of the comics club that I ran there and we were all. The children always worked together to create comics collaboratively and then sell those at the end of the comics club period, at a comics fair. And we sort of invited, you know, the, the other children in the school, we invited their family to come along and it was just a really lovely way of celebrating what they'd achieved. and one of the things I noticed was just actually. How important this comics fair was for the children in comics club. We could, we could have just used the club and there's your comic and you can take it home. but actually that celebration of being able to share your work and sell your work and seeing your work being valued, I mean, we only ever sold for probably just over the printing costs as it was, um. Seeing their work valued in that way was so important for them. And, you know, somebody saying, I, I felt like a professional comics maker from doing the fair. Um, you know, my favorite part was being able to share my work with other people. just these lovely elements.

Lucy 20:53

Um, so important.

Helen 20:55

So important and it creates that sort of network. So, you know, you have the children coming the following year to Comics club who'd been in the audience last year. So it is to create that network of children writing for each other, creating and drawing for each other, which I think is so important. I always remember as a child loving reading and seeing things that other children had produced, but children, you know, children began to publish their own work is so, is so rare. Um, so that's something that has come out sort do my own research. And that's something I just, I could see it could be on a bigger scale. I was always like, well, we're doing, we're doing this fair in the playground. This could be happening somewhere else. And there was also a lovely project that happened for several years called Comic Swap, which was Run outta seven stories, in Newcastle. But the idea of Comic Swap was, it's different comics, clubs were swapping their comics with each other, and my comics club were involved one year. and we ended up getting these comics from all over the country and in fact, a comic from America that be made by other children. Um, and again, I just love looking at them and seeing them and seeing what other people have produced. So that's why, you know, I feel that creating these spaces where children can sort of work collaboratively together to create comics and then go and swap their comics with others or, or sell their comics. So that being seen as, as valued as well is really important.

Lucy 22:18

And what's the mechanism? How do, how can children get involved, on do they, can they just turn up with some comics they've made? How, how does it work on the day?

Helen 22:27

it's, it's, it's always an organic beast, isn't it, Hannah? How people can be

Hannah 22:31

Well, we've just done it once so far, but this, this, this year we have, we're very excited. So we have 13, so we, we did a kids applied to table, which we didn't do last time, but we did this time. and we have 13. Individual or little collectives of kids, who with their parent are gonna come and share their work.

Lucy 22:54

so excited.

Hannah 22:55

it, yeah, I really, we, they, they were showing us some of the work and I was just giddy. I was like, this is why we do this. yeah, their little self portraits just amazing.

Lucy 23:08

We've touched a little bit on in terms of things that were successful and things that you want to definitely bring back. Hannah, do you wanna start us off?

Hannah 23:16

I was just thinking we, we have some new people doing the workshops this, this year. We got some really fun things happening. my favorite part is watching the adults get giddy with their kids. So I'm looking forward to, you know, when you see these family groups come and you see the adult, Get engaged as much as the kid that, that, that's, that's the win. I think the thing with Faires like this is at the moment we are built, we are continuing the legacy by doing it again, building the profile a bit. It's like doing it once is not enough. Probably you need to do it about three times before you've really nailed it. And then you can grow, then you can build on it. At the moment it's like, okay, let's do, we've done it once and it was a success. Let's do it again and see if we can do it as well. Do you know what I mean? So, I think at the minute it's like, let's just make it happen again. So it be more and more ingrained and becomes a fixture.

Lucy 24:12

And you want people to be looking forward to it at the same time next year, kind of

Hannah 24:16

Yeah. And, and, and who knows what will come from it. I'm hoping that there'll be more, comics groups for young people happening locally. I'm hoping that more kids are gonna go, oh, I can do that because they did it, that that 7-year-old is who I'm seven and they have a table that, that 14-year-old, you know, it, it's that sort of representation. I'm hoping is contagious, for storytelling and creativity for the kids so that they can find their voice, in that field. so yeah, it's, this is like, this is like, okay, we did it once. Let's get it. Let's keep doing it and get it in Kids' heads like making comics is a cool thing.

Lucy 24:52

gives them something to work towards and something like in the same way that at the end of the comics club, you know that Helen was running. But if you're not lucky to be part of that at your school, which let's face it, most people want, it gives you, yeah. Something on your horizon. Or you can think, oh yeah, I could just do something for that. Give you a little kick

Hannah 25:09

And, and I also hope that other kids comic fairs will bloom. Like people will think, will think this is a thing like the Phoenix are doing, a kids comic fair again. I think that's great. I think we need more, more of them. It's, it's a really wonderful thing for kids. So.

Helen 25:24

I think one of the things that me and Hannah are really mindful of when we're, you know, thinking about the event is trying to make it as inclusive as possible. and I think sort of going back to thinking about, you know, Hannah talking about those very male spaces of comics. Shops in the sort of eighties and nineties. And I think I, you know, that's something I really experienced as well and talked about when I was on the podcast last. We don't want it to be that experience for everybody. So we are always thinking in terms of representation, who we've got there about, you know, making sure it's very diverse as much as possible, just making it an inclusive space. And that's something we worked on last year. We've worked, I think, probably even harder on doing. This year as well. but yeah, I think otherwise we've tried to keep most of it the same as last year.'cause as you said, it was a success last year, you know, and as children grow up, they'll engage in different things at different points when they come to the fair. They were too young for workshops last year. They might be old enough for workshops now. So actually keeping it the same, but the children having different experiences, as they come along to it, is also also important.

Lucy 26:32

And are you aiming it more towards primary children? What's your approach to thinking about the, content?

Helen 26:38

I think our age range we've always focused on is that seven to 14 years old. and particularly thinking about activities as well. I think sometimes that's a age range where perhaps, you know, events there's, there's less of them, particularly for sort of our older sort of group, 10 to 14. There isn't much going on unless you pay a huge amount of money to go to a, a sort of paid for activity or clubs. Actually creating something free for that age range was something that we felt was important as well to do.

Hannah 27:09

Making this, making this free and affordable was incredibly important. We live in a, a pretty poor borough, and, you know, the economy is terrible. if we can do it and make it for free, then it's absolutely paramount that it has to be accessible for all pockets.

Lucy 27:26

And so it is probably worth pointing out that you're not planning on becoming millionaires from this, from this activity.

Hannah 27:35

Oh, and they laughed and laughed.

Lucy 27:39

So what it, what it needs to do from that perspective is cover its costs, I guess from your side. And that's something for people to think about if they're thinking of doing their own thing.

Helen 27:46

So we are, we're definitely not for profit at all. There is no profit made by me and Hannah, and anything that would be profit would go back into running the fair again. we've been very lucky. So where we, where we hold the event, they've been very, sort of generous in the discount they've given us the space. this year we're having to pay a bit more than we did. So we've, we've tried to go for funding as well from different places, but we've not been successful yet in getting funding. So we have to be really careful with, with how we manage the money side of it all.

Lucy 28:17

I'm hoping that people listening to this, we have public librarians, we have teachers, we have people running youth clubs, who might be thinking, oh, I could actually, this is something, this is a good idea. This is something we could do in our community. what were the key kind of pointers. that you, the tips, the things you wish you'd known, or thought about before, that must have been a big learning curve, that process of setting up the first one. what Kind of tips would you share, Hannah? We'll start with you.

Hannah 28:42

What I would say to anyone interested in doing it is go and volunteer with someone already doing it because that's how I

Lucy 28:48

That's such a good idea.

Hannah 28:50

And you will then meet people like I have who are willing to spare their time, volunteer on your project. So you create a network of helpers who are passionate and interested in comics. So, you know, I wouldn't. I do think sometimes there's a tendency for people to say, oh, I can do this on my own. It's like, you don't have to just ask people, you'll find people who, who value this,

Lucy 29:18

Hmm.

Hannah 29:19

enough to do it to volunteer. But, I think the key thing on a logistical, places find the space, find the building, and make sure it has tables. But sometimes people find the building and then they have to hire the table, and then that's an extra cost. So, yeah, I think if you have the passion, find the building, then find the people, then go from there.

Lucy 29:40

Yeah, that's great. Helen, what would you add to that?

Helen 29:43

Yeah, I think just really be aware of all the sort of nitty gritty aspects of the logistics. Things like getting public liability, you know, in place and various things like that, which Hannah has been great at doing. and just sort of having an overview of all the things you need to think about in a very practical sense. You know, you can sort of have a say, oh, it'd be lovely, we'll just invite all these children along. And then you have to start thinking about it logistically, you know, again, safeguarding. So if you're working in a building, make sure you know they're safeguarding policy. and again, something that's something we just have to think really carefully about in terms of making sure we had somebody on the doors. So, you know, you had an idea of who was coming in and out of the building at all times. Social media as well. I think about how you're gonna publicize and get, get your fair out there and known about. So we started off last year with Instagram. We've got the fantastic Lauren who does our social media for us. So again, it's finding people with those skills that will help you. I think me and Hannah were just like, I don't know what to do. I'll just do an Instagram. Lauren's been really sort of, you know, brilliant at sort of bringing strategy to it. And we we're going, we're going to roll it out here and we're gonna have this event. and this year alongside, having the Instagram, we've now got just a webpage, which can be a landing place for people to come, and sort of find links from there as well. So just sort of trying to create a space, but also, going back. It doesn't have to social media, so it can be going back to simple things like getting flyers made and handing out flyers. there've been really successful ways, again, of sort of just advertising the event.

Hannah 31:16

Yeah, we learned about press packs. again, that was, Lauren gave us some good steers on that. yeah, reaching out to, local news outlets to, put the word out. As long as you've put together a strong press pack, they're grateful to have an article depending on which one, but you know, it, it's, it was quite an interesting, learning element. And that's the thing about finding people to work with when you wanna do things like this. Helen and I have definitely different skill sets and they compliment each other. Neither of us had the social media. We've got Lauren that compliments, you know, and covers the bases. So, you know, Helen's got this huge educational background and knowledge, that yeah, has definitely. Alleviate so many things I would not have done as well. So we all have our own skill sets and recognizing that and, and leaning into that, just makes the life a lot easier.

Lucy 32:09

Yeah, that's brilliant. Anything to add, Helen?

Helen 32:11

I mean, I was gonna say create that team. That team is really important of having people to work together with on it. And that link set, it goes out then to your volunteers and people who are involved. and I think the other thing as well is. Is, you know, don't lose faith. You know, if something goes wrong or isn't quite right or you have to adapt and change. Just just do have other plans in place where something doesn't work. So again, you know, I said me and Hannah apply for funding this year. You have to wait a couple of months to find out if you've been successful, then, before you have to pay the hall, you find out you've not been successful. So we've had to change tax several times. You know, it's, it's about working as a team and knowing how to adapt and not letting that get you down, but actually let's go and find another way of doing this, which is really important too.

Lucy 32:59

And I suppose at those moments as well, not being on your own is really helpful. You've got a team, people, someone's gonna be like, you know, they, let's keep going. You know, you can, you can keep each other going when you have setbacks.

Hannah 33:13

And all of us, I think, are passionate about the project, which means the project leads us.

Lucy 33:20

From my own experience as someone leading a program with, children in schools, in my day job, it's easy for me in that setting to capture child feedback and so on, because I'm working the same group of children. I know where they're there. They're not coming into a space and then leaving at different times. did you manage to,. Capture some insights from children or young people before they wandered back out with armfuls of comics on the day, how did that kind of evaluation of it,, work, and feed into the the next version

Hannah 33:49

I think there was, Jean from the halls who was, Asking individuals for their experience while they were there. and Helen organized the feedback that we requested from the tablers. So we got huge amount of, information from that. I think one of the, the things that was. Very present on the day. Was people actively telling you, this is brilliant. Are you doing it next year? And so, because I sat on the, for a while, sat on the front desk. so I'd see people leaving and the amount of enthusiasm that would pass, was like quite, quite a buzz.

Lucy 34:29

Yeah, well you could definitely tell'em today that everyone was absolutely loving it. that's for sure.

Helen 34:34

there were mistakes we made, though we didn't count foot, foot full, and I think this year we'll just need to have a clicker on the door. So we are counting people

Lucy 34:42

Yeah. Oh, I like, I want that job. Always wanted to be one of them people. Yeah. And that would've also, presumably, that would've been useful insight to have for the, for funding applications and so on

Hannah 34:56

I think you could, I, I would say we probably had 500 plus people on the day. You could. I have done fairs there before and it just, it was just full all the time. and a flow of people coming and going

Lucy 35:10

yeah,

Hannah 35:11

day. mean, it wasn't too crowded, which was also nice. It wasn't like, you know,

Lucy 35:16

No, it wasn't like the school Christmas Fair. Which is like the worst experience of my life. I hate that. It was, yeah, you could, you could breathe and you could walk. You weren't just Having to go wherever everyone else was going. It's very stressful. I hate that. brilliant. This has been so good. I think one thing we haven't actually said yet, which I will say in the intro as well, but is where, when, how can people come? Do you want to. Do a little shout out for, for anyone listening who wants to come along on the day where they have to go, what time, what day is this amazing thing happening?

Helen 35:46

So it's, it's taking place on March the 22nd, which is a Sunday, and it's happening at Stanley Arts, which is in South Norwood. So it's really well connected by public transport. There's several buses that go there. It's is on the overground, and train lines. yeah, and it runs from 11 till five o'clock. So 11:00 AM till five. We will, we will be there.

Hannah 36:10

Yeah, nearest train station nor Junction. 15 minutes from London Bridge.

Lucy 36:15

Excellent.

Hannah 36:16

One stop.

Lucy 36:18

Brilliant. Thank you so much. This has been really interesting. It's so exciting, just to hear about it and yeah, I can't wait to go again. I loved it last year. Helen, I've got one thing that I want to ask you about before we do our wrap up questions, which is a bit of a cheeky question. I've heard a rumor, that you've got a book coming out, which would you like to tell us about it? I heard you're writing it with someone really amazing.

Helen 36:45

Yeah, I, I'm surprised you've heard that because we've been trying keep quiet, but apparently you and me have been writing a book together over the past. so yeah, it's called, it's called Comics in the classroom. It is just gone. to print and it's hopefully coming out in July

Lucy 37:03

In the summertime, hopefully. Yeah.

Helen 37:05

sometime. and yeah, it's, it's, it's a book. I mean, you might always talk about it a bit, Lucy, but I can describe it. So it is a book that really looks at how comics can be used. Again, across the primary age, but into secondary school as well. So I think again, probably the focus would be about that seven to 14-year-old age group, for it. But it looks at comics in relationship to reading for pleasure, interrelation to visual literacy. there's lots of different chapters, comics and drawing and writing for pleasure, which draws some of my research. Comics and thinking. So thinking about how we can use comics, a way of thinking in the classroom. and also we can comics across the curriculum. And then some brilliant chapters on comics and representation and comics and inclusion and also comics and sustainability, which I think probably aren't thought about as as much as they should be.

Lucy 37:59

Yeah.

Helen 37:59

so it's all about how teachers can use comics in a range of different ways in the classroom. and I think it really hopefully will be a first for the uk. We've had some publications in the uk, but mainly it's just really been American publications about how to use comics and education. so I think it's something we really desperately do need

Lucy 38:16

Yeah. Yeah, we were really keen, weren't we, to make sure that it's kind of rooted in, not solely, but it's talking about. UK based comic creators where possible and, and examples from UK based practice and, and link links to the curriculum, as it is currently, as well, which is really cool, I think, to have something that's got that kind of unique perspective. And I have really enjoyed writing it with you. It was really, well, not all the time, sometimes it was a bit stressful. but, but it was fun and it was great to have.

Helen 38:47

Ourselves, quite a short deadline. We're gonna write this book in a year.

Lucy 38:50

Yeah, we did it though. Smashed it out the park.

Helen 38:54

And I think what's been lovely about it as well is that each, each chapter does have a case study. So it is not just about, here are ideas about what you could do, but this is what people are actually doing. And that's been lovely. So some people are, some people who come to yo comics so are featured in some of the case studies. it really reflects the whole comics community across the uk.

Lucy 39:14

Yeah. And there's some, yeah, some form former guests from the podcast. on there. It is been great to pull all of those kind of experiences and connections, together to put something, hopefully it's really useful and practical as well as having some good insight into that. The research that. the evidence base for some of these things that we're talking about. So yeah, watch this space. We'll talk about it more, I'm sure. so before we end the podcast, we'd just like to do a few key takeaways. maybe we could just do one each. The, the one thing I want you to remember about the stuff I've been saying today on this podcast, who wants to go first? Hannah? Looks like the cogs are turning.

Hannah 39:54

Oh God, they're always turning. I think, um, not to undervalue the, the gift of communication that comics give to kids to express themselves.

Lucy 40:06

that.

Hannah 40:07

not to underestimate it and, not to devalue it because they're pictures. I'm dyslexic and I was diagnosed at 26. My dad was severely dyslexic, but we comics gave us so much joy. so, you know, and I, I hear it all the time. It gets devalued for young people in reading. I still read books and I also read

Lucy 40:32

exactly. Yeah. That's lovely. Thank you, Helen.

Helen 40:36

yeah, I think just absolutely the importance of creating spaces for children to be able to share their own work and their own creations and see their own interests valued. I don't think schools always provide that environment. Currently, we've got a very sort of strict curriculum, English teaching, if you want to think of focus on literacy is often teaching children about sort of grammar forms rather than sort of how to express themselves. and I think creating spaces where children are allowed to have their voices heard is just really, really important. and can't be undervalued.

Lucy 41:09

Yeah. And obviously in England our curriculum is being reviewed slightly disappointed to see the lack of diversity in the people that are gonna be rewriting the English curriculum. Just gonna put that out there. nothing. No, no, no. Reflection on the, those. Particular individuals and whether or not they're qualified. But I do think that we need a wide range of voices and experiences informing our curriculum, and that's how we get rich outcomes and success for, for, for children who have also lots of wide varieties of lived experience. so yeah.

Helen 41:44

Yeah, and no discussion either in this new curriculum of multimodality and the way people are reading nowadays across different platforms. which again is a shame. It feels like a slightly old, old fashioned curriculum that misses that out.

Lucy 41:59

Yeah, I think even, yeah, even just our approach to like quite siloed subject areas just limits that multimodality, as you say. and I don't have huge hope that it's gonna be changed in this review curriculum review,

Helen 42:11

Although on a, on a cheerful note, Create those spaces, but also go back to the idea of fun. Keep it fun. Making comics is fun, you know, swapping comics is fun. sharing and bringing a community together. Is fun. It is exciting, it is playful and you know, and keep it that way as well. This is, it should be enjoyable.

Lucy 42:32

Yeah. And that's why it's so important for these other spaces outside, outside of, you know, the curriculum to, to exist for people to be creative and express themselves and tell their stories and, and, and have a bit of fun. So it is amazing that you guys are doing that. The final, final, final thing is if we were to add one comic or book graphic novel or book about comics, two r two B red piles tomorrow, what? Should we add?

Hannah 43:01

Thank you for asking. I'd like to share my absolute favorite, comic that I have read multiple times is Spiral Bound by Aaron Rina. It's anamorphic, so it's all animal characters, but they're this little, it's about this, Little elephant making friends. it sounds much more cutesy because it's actually an adventure, and a mystery. I just love it. It's just so, such wonderful storytelling. It has such lovely nuances of friendship and, and it's so welcoming and warm. And it also has this mystery that's actually delightful. He is, he is written other, a couple of other books and he just needs to write more.

Lucy 43:40

Brilliant, Helen.

Helen 43:41

I'm going to be very cheeky, Lucy and suggest people put on their to be red pile for the future comics in the classroom.

Lucy 43:50

Now, I don't normally allow that, but seen as seen as this our book. Yes, you definitely should

Helen 43:56

yes.

Lucy 43:56

the whole back, back half of 2026 to be reading that book on over and over

Helen 44:01

so to read and digest the

Lucy 44:03

Yeah. Yeah. Brilliant. I'm gonna suggest one something just really funny that just made me laugh so hard. I can't remember who it was. I'm gonna have to search it up. is detective be, detective beans is little, and the case of the missing hat, Lee Chen is who? It's, who it's by and it is just this little cat child. it wants to be a detective and it just really had me howling. And also the second, the second one, the second detective beans is also very just very, very funny. We just very witty, enjoyed it. Wasn't expecting it to be that funny, and it's great. I really, I really enjoyed it. I read it, on the train on the way back from a conference, that I went to and was just sat there laughing to myself on the train. It's very good. But thank you so much for coming onto the podcast. It's been great to have you. I've really enjoyed hearing about, some things that go on in the background to create, a really successful event.'cause I had just the pleasure of just turning up on the day and enjoying it, with, with my box of comics, last year. So yeah, it's been great to hear about all the thought and, and development that goes into it. So thank you so much for coming on.

Hannah 45:09

Thank you for having us.

45:12

There we go. Great guests. Thanks so much to Hannah and to Helen for giving us their time and for sharing all of their experience on running a comics fair for and by children. Yo comics is coming up, if you're listening to this, as the episode comes out, it's coming up,, and hopefully will become, a fixture in the calendar this time of year, every year, second year now. So really, they're really establishing themselves. Thanks to a LCS for sponsoring today's episode. As you know, we often have writers on comic boom speaking about their work, and A LCS is a not-for-profit organization supporting. Its 120,000 plus members to collect money for all of the secondary uses of their work. That means things like photocopies, digital reproductions, and even the use Of texts in education. and they also produce some fantastic resources to support educators to explore topics like copyright and plagiarism in the classroom. You can check those out on the link in the show notes. There's a range of different free resources available for teachers and especially I think in the age of ai, something that we need to build children and young people's awareness of. And there's some really interesting, dedicated resources, on that topic as well. My book recommendation for the week. I was thinking about, one of the things that I started reading since, our last set of episodes is. A Manga Delicious in dungeon. It's a meshy manga. It's a manga about food. It's also an anime on Netflix if you want to watch it. It's very funny about, some people that are going into a dungeon, and they learn to eat the dungeon creatures to sustain themselves. So it's kind of part cooking, show, part adventure story, battling creatures in the dungeon. And it, it's very funny. So definitely recommend Delicious in Dungeon by Ku qui, Who is a female manga creator. very witty, brilliant drawings, great pace. And I really enjoyed it. It's 14 volumes, I always trust the age rating on the back of manga because the story really can develop and change over the course of the series and bring in content maybe less suitable. So the back age rating is for older teens and adults, and I trust that. Thanks so much for listening today. Hopefully that's planted some seeds of things that you would like to do and maybe in your school, in your library, in your community to promote comics with children and young people. There's such a buzz about comics. I think it's just brilliant to be able to harness that and, give young people a platform through which they can realize their creative dreams. So thank you for listening today. We'll be back with another episode next week. You've been listening to Comic Boom, which is produced by me, Lucy Star Braley. Thanks for listening.