Lauren Hayes - Relationship Coach (ENM & Swinging Specialist)

In this episode I welcome Lauren Hayes to the Free4all. Lauren is a Relationship Coach specialising in Ethical Non Monogamy & Swinging.

Lauren speaks candidly about coaching couples and singles that are in monogamous relationships, non monogamous relationships and those curious about experiencing ENM and swinging as well as promoting her own book on these subjects.

Keen to dispel myths and misconceptions regarding non monogamy and swinging, Lauren gives a real insight into the difference of both and how she helps others who are curious or indulge in non monogamy.

A great insight into these lifestyle's as well as Lauren sharing some of her own experiences.

Website: https://www.swinginglifestylecoach.com/

Podcast: https://pod.link/1767688018

IG: https://www.instagram.com/swinginglifestylecoach

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/SwingingLifestyleCoach

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVZR-9HggJ51NaJnXCnq0Ew
 

Transcript

 Hi and welcome to the Free 4 All Pod with me, Rob Fludder . This week, I'm delighted to welcome yet another guest, Lauren Hayes, all the way from the United States of America. Lauren is a relationship coach specializing in ethically non monogamous couples, including swingers and the curious.

Lauren, welcome to the pod. How are you?  

Hi, thank you. Thanks for having me. I'm good. 

You're more than welcome. It's great to have you. So Lauren, it's fair to say, been wanting to have you on the pod from for a while now, and I'm glad you said yes, because as you know, the free for all pod is no set subject matter, no genre.

Okay, so it's great. I can really mix guests up. And I think your subject matter is one that our listeners would love. You've got a book that's going to be published at some point, so we can talk about that, but why don't you introduce yourself to the listeners and just a little insight into what you want to speak about today? 

Yeah. So I'm a relationship coach in the E and M space. So I'm actually a relationship coach first and then. Secondly, my specialty is E& M, and I say that because I think people get the idea that, relationships are very different between ethical non monogamy and, monogamous relationships, and they really aren't.

So the foundations of a healthy relationship are the same so I also coach monogamous couples for that reason, 

 amazing. So I'm interested to understand the difference at some point, but maybe not just right now, I'd be really good if we just go to the start and how you got into becoming a relationship coach. 

First I wanna, I know we're throwing out some terms here about ethically non monogamous, so I just want to do some defining for people if that's okay. so ethically non monogamous is the big, broad umbrella term for Being non monogamous, in the biz, we usually drop ethical because it implies ethical if someone's unethically non monogamous, we already have terms for that which are affairs or cheating  so I will usually just use non monogamous or ENM.

Now underneath that umbrella term, there's kind of two camps, if you will. There's polyamory and then there's swinging. everything in between. So that's the thing I always want people to understand is when people are non monogamous, they're really creating whatever works for them. So the distinction here is usually polyamorous are looking for, emotionally committed. 

Relationships, falling in love with multiple people on the swinging end. That's more, sexual adventure and friendship that people are looking for. So that is the primary distinction between the two. And there is also some crossover, some polyamorous couples swing, some swingers become polyamorous.

it's a big community. these distinctions. Probably matter the most to us non monogamous,  but it's still helpful for people to know. and then how I got into the coaching was, so my husband and I have been married for almost 20 years and non monogamous for six. So it was a little bit of a COVID thing, which is not uncommon that I questioned what I wanted to be when I grew up coaching, personal development, spirituality, personal growth, all that was like a very big part of my Life since I was an adult. It just was the one I did for a career So I used that time to do a life coaching program then  relationship coaching and became a coach  because, my husband and I had transitioned into this non monogamous culture and really loved it and got a lot out of it.

It was just, was a passion of mine to help other people navigate it because it is tricky and also  it's unknown. So, you know, because we all grew up in a monogamous culture, it's been a pleasure to help people 

 for sharing that with us. I suppose for me it's, it's one of those things then that It, it happened on the back of lifestyle choices that you and your husband made.

What did you do? before you became a relationship coach,  

I was in marketing for 20 years and before that I was an accountant. So this is my third career. 

Wow. So  no seamless link there. It's just so different to anything you've ever done before.  

yeah, it's what I was before I did this professionally.

there were a lot of jokes with my friends and things like, did we have to pay you now  since you, you've always been my coach I'm like, no, I'll give you a pass.  

sounds like you've always had that in as a person to be able to maybe advise, support and guide people, offer some, you know, Good advice,  advising friends or being there for friends that, you know, you're comfortable with is one thing,  being a relationship coach for the first time for a pay in person as a, as a service, was she really nervous to go into that, to go, well, this is professional, you know, this is someone come to me and now I've got to do the right thing. 

Not really. I mean, I didn't have training  and also I feel like, my, my Experiences have been great training. my perspective, coming out in the book, are that they are, you know, life, life and love lessons that I've learned that are very universal.

They're not just for non monogamous, through all of that, challenge because it's always challenged to learn these life lessons, right. I became a happier healthier individual and our relationship became stronger. I've always felt confident that I can, offer value to people. 

Fair play. That attitude, you know? I was always there. I had the training. I'm comfortable. that's great What about your husband? did he have to go? now I'm being coached. you've got someone. sometimes, you get therapists, are they being judged? Are they being coached? is it just the same Lauren and your partner as before?  

sensitive to it.  it's funny. I've been a coach for a long time, but now if I say something he'll quickly be like, that sounds like you're coaching me. 

I'm guessing most coaches and therapists have a similar dynamic with their spouse. I don't know. But, yeah, I've learned to,  Not make it sound too professional speak.  

I imagine. being generic here. at times men, in a relationship with a woman, feel we're being coached and taking feedback.

And, and that's just, I think the dynamic of men and women, we are so different at times, you know, in our, you know,  thought process of what we do emotionally different at times as well. And sometimes we can feel coached. I do speak from personal, personal perspective, but not in a  negative way.

sometimes you go, Oh yeah, I'm taking a lesson there. and sometimes we argue with tears and not listening And then there's times where you go, probably should listen here. I sort of understand without knowing your husband, without knowing you.

yeah, that could feel a little bit coachy after you went into a profession.  

Yeah, it's interesting because, we pay coaches for this advice, but when it's from our partner, there's a different reaction like you said, Oftentimes it takes a couple of days and you're like, okay, maybe I can hear what they're saying in the moment. Sometimes it's a little challenging. It's like trying to learn a sport from your spouse, even, you know, it's like everything is kind of difficult sometimes. 

Absolutely. But I suppose then if someone went into a new career and become a hairdresser, you know, you could go home and go, ah, your hair has not been cut quite so well.

And you go, it's been cut the same way all the time. Leave me alone. Exactly. 

Exactly.  

You get into relationship coaching. how did you start How did you build a client base Was it more social media? I know you've got experience into marketing, so I suppose you've got good space there that helps.

it'd be good to understand how you got into that.  

Yeah, you know, there are a lot of websites that cater specifically to the ethically non monogamous and swinging  And that's been great for me I think I do have a particular challenge with my job and that is that most people don't Want it known they're interested in the thing that i'm coaching or that they're doing the thing that i'm coaching in So social media in particular can be tricky because you know if you like something You People will show other people that you liked it.

I have challenges with my marketing. I found some places working it's interesting. I don't know if you have marketing background or with this podcast, but I'll look at my website traffic, and the majority of it is direct because people will open up incognito browser.

even if they find me they'll open the browser and Go to my site directly not a lot of information for me to know where people are actually finding me  So it is an ongoing marketing challenge But like I said, there are websites  for people already interested that's where I advertise for people who are completely monogamous and just curious  that can be a little trickier to find me  

I can imagine.

Yeah. Until you said it, yeah, because there are people that are curious, right? it might be curiosity into what's going on, not necessarily. They want to partake or participate or broach a subject, but wow, what is it? And then, Oh, this looks awkward. I probably should get off this website.

Probably shouldn't look at this or like it because like you said, other people can, or what if my 

partner sees I was searching on this  

absolutely. So it's a, I suppose a little bit different to regular marketing, but I suppose at least it's quite nicely into that side of things.

what do you, as a coach, do you.  Offer. Do you coach more people that are curious or more active?  

it's an interesting stage thing. So, so first of all, I think the difficulty that people have and finding me or the, the fear they have and even being curious is a testament to sort of how taboo this can be which I'm trying to change.

Then I would say there are different levels, like there's just very beginning curiosity where they just want to know more about it. Then they're sort of like, okay. and so I would say the people that I sort of capture at that stage are the people that are like, I want to bring this up to my partner, but I am, you know,  Terrified to do so.

I have a guide on my website, a free downloadable guide that, you know, addresses that directly. Like if you're wanting to bring this up with your partner, Once they've had a couple conversations and are interested  sometimes they've had an experience or two and want to dive further into this But I don't know how that's probably where I get more clients is because they want to proceed But they all the fears are sort of stopping them, which is the typical reason you would find a coach then the other  sort of Client base that I have are people who are in ethical non monogamy and they hit a little road bump or a snag that they are having a hard time getting through 

 Yeah, it sounds logical, right? Cause if we made a decision, if I decided, look, I'm interested and I wanted to go and speak to my partner and my partner said yes, then we don't need a coach. we've made that decision together.  we go to coaches.  little bit of guidance, advice, maybe clarification, verification, whatever the case may be.

it's interesting when, when you say about the different stages that people could be at I'm curious, or I've had a few, you know, situations or look, we've delved right in, but we're having a bump in the road.  Do you have a number of, and of course I know you've got to keep client potentiality.

So I'll tailor this the best I can.  regular monogamous couples, have fallouts.  life situations, things happen. Do you have clients that go, right, we're having a fallout and pull it down to the lifestyle they're leading, but maybe it's not that it's other reasons. 

that's very insightful. one thing that I say often about non monogamy is that it's going to shine a light on your relationship. So, and especially. Anyone going into non monogamy should feel they are in a stable and solid relationship, some think it will fix it.

It will never fix it because what it will do is it will shine a light on some unhealthy aspect to your relationship.  So, you have to be open to finding and fixing those things.  Very, very often, the dynamic might be a situation that happened within, non monogamy.  Or a non monogamous situation, let's say a swinging situation, but that will only highlight a dynamic that you currently have in your relationship.

And so that is why many people, when they become non monogamous, feel like their relationship improves because it is that commitment to fixing all these little. cracks that we find in our foundation that really does make us closer and feel like we're in a healthier space. 

That's interesting, isn't it? you can. Bring people closer emotionally from the outside people see swinging as purely physical spicy, naughty, fun, pure sexual. But these can bring you together emotionally and as friends, it's something else to talk about, where are we going to go What are we going to plan? Meeting this couple or single, you get to know other people. Gives you something else to talk about, 

 Yeah, a friend of mine, Polly and I, have a podcast together and that's one of the jokes that we bring up often, like, you want to test your relationship?

Add more people.  want to, find something interesting about your partner? Add more people. this is true on many levels. So one is, you know, even though you say it's just physical, You're always connecting with other human beings. you're always connecting and making friendships.

This is one of the misconceptions about swinging in particular, is that we're all just in it for sex, and, you know, you walk into a swinger club, and it's just gonna be, Everybody having sex with anybody. And I also joke that lots of people hope that's  what it's, but it's not that  . And, and so there's a lot of friendship and connection happening.

humans love to connect. people are so attracted to this community because there's a lot of attract friendship  and connection going on.  Many, many people, once they discover this community, will stay in the community, even if not participating in sexual activities, because it's a fun, open minded, sex positive, body positive environment. 

But then also,  Behind even if you were in quotes, just having sexual experiences more often than not You're going to have some emotional reaction to how your partner interacts with someone else or watching this or whatever  You may love all of it and there may be times that you have some insecurities come up or whatever That process of sharing with your partner and not blaming your partner for how you you know, they made you feel bad but  Acknowledging that I felt bad when I watched that then sharing that with my partner  The next day or whatever and saying, you know That I felt really jealous in that situation and then talking about that You're not blaming your partner for the jealousy.

You're just talking about it it is those kinds of the emotional vulnerability the listening the discussing that brings you Emotionally so much closer together that has almost nothing to do with the other people  Except for that is what brought up a situation that had you feel a certain way.  

That makes sense.

someone that's never been in that situation I'm going to pick on men because I am a man and we are notoriously terrible communicators Unless we're within a comfortable group, we're great communicators, in the pub or at football  with our partners.

we're not the best at listening and not the best at saying what we truly feel. Do you see that a lot in your clients  

You bring up a great  point. we use the term communication often, which is broad  are we communicating with friends at the pub talking about the game Communication in a relationship.  Is really when you're starting when you share more vulnerably  and so I'm going to like take communication down a deeper level.

You're not just talking who's going to pick up the kids What are we going to have for dinner? We're talking about things like I felt jealous last night that's emotional vulnerability. the partner is listening to learn Not how this affects me not listening for defensiveness not what I did wrong, but just listening to learn  Real communication, vulnerability, transparency, being truthful with your partner about how you're feeling, even though you might be embarrassed about how you felt about it, or whatever.

that's the real communication piece, that's what couples are talking about when they say,  after getting an E and M, our communication increased tenfold. They're not talking about logistics and how the game is being played. They're talking about their feelings. 

really interesting because as I was listening to you say about who's picking the kids up, who's making tea, blah, blah, blah. That's transactional. It hits. it's quick. It's done. It's moved on. The vulnerable side,  it's almost like an art form. We have to learn because it feels uncomfortable, 

To open up maybe the first time we say to our parents, we don't want to go to school at nursery. We can cry all we like cause we're children we feel vulnerable and it's hard it's putting yourself out of that comfort zone. 

So I could imagine couples when they enter a different lifestyle, they push themselves into vulnerability. The easiest thing is to blame be defensive. you did that. You made me feel like this, or it wasn't my fault or it's all my fault. we do that sometimes.

I understand that. so yeah, that sounds deep and Interesting for you as the coach to listen to your clients 

 I 

can imagine repetitive, a lot of the style. 

Yeah, we do end up with similar issues. Humans end up in a lot of scenarios.

There's couples of all types end up in similar issues for that reason. And, you know, it's interesting what you bring up because we choose our partners, especially these committed long term partners, because we feel safe with them  and then. Because we feel so invested It's also scary. I feel safe  but I don't want to be too vulnerable with you because of the underlying attachment theory afraid you'll leave or reject me 

And so I think it's really interesting that sometimes we can even find it. Easier to be emotionally vulnerable with others instead of our partner, because we're not worried about what the other is leaving us so much, but ultimately, then that's gonna not enrich the relationship with your partner.

So I think that's an interesting thing that a lot of us do, and it is something to course. Correct.  

I can imagine what you're listening to, with your clients, but I can almost picture that and forget.  Someone told me once he said, Rob, do you know what we do as men when we want our woman, we do everything to get them. We wear our best aftershave, our best shirt. We are polite. We open doors, we buy chocolates. And then when we have them, we do everything we can to lose them.

So the shirt is no longer pressed and we don't smell as great. We don't buy the chocolates look at their friends or sister and think, Oh, wow, what's green on the other side.  But inside, and I'm talking about men here  are vulnerable and have this big fear about losing.

I can imagine broaching the subject,  the way a man would tactfully do that. Would you say that's different to the female? So a female goes, I want, I fancy, you know, having a conversation with my partner,  You see a difference between how a male and a female typically  approach the subject with their partners or not? 

I think men are just as vulnerable. it can be harder for some men to feel vulnerable because they don't have the tools in which, to like, okay, I'm, I'm vulnerable, but then what? What do I do? What if I do then? What if her reaction is not what I, I want it to be?

And we don't have the tools to manage that part. but I would say that very similar insecurities come up no matter who brings it up, the other one will have kind of a, well, am I not enough, reaction to that? There'll be, are we, are you not happy with me reaction to that?

And that is. Men and women, because we all feel the same, we all have the same attachments and like you said, maybe men are more vulnerable because they don't feel like they have some of the communication tools to manage the complexity that that might bring about. 

I totally agree. maybe not just the communication at the time, the communication with himself. So, you know, when we go away and think about things, what do we do? A lot of the time we try and push it away. We bottle it up. We try and forget it's not there. And, and, you know, instead of dealing with it, and sometimes that's internally as well, which I can imagine, you know, a number of couples going into any difference will feel, changes.

so the swinging scene. Okay.  I think today I see without going and invest in time in searching for anything or promotion, more fun side of It seems more open. I see pineapples upside down and it seems a more fun scenario. It doesn't seem Seedy. It doesn't seem quite as hidden.

Would you agree with that? And would you say that that's changed over a number of years?  

I think it is changing. I think what is interesting is like when I talked about that, umbrella term of E. N. M. I think The polyamorous community has been getting more and more airtime if you will and I think That and so a lot of people actually think those two terms are synonymous  because they get more media if you will  And also my theory is partially they're a little more accepted because they can fall under the same narrative of love is love  because they are in it for love.

the other end swingers are in it for, fun and friendship and sexual pleasure. That's still something for both your culture and mine that is a little harder to get behind. I think there are some other countries are  a little more there. But, we're lagging a bit, I think there is more awareness and that's why I love going on podcasts there's so much misconception about it the more people understand what it truly is, they'll be like, Oh, I don't know why we think poorly about that.  

Absolutely. I think it's amazing. I think it should be, people should understand, you know, and, and not to make any decision necessarily just understand, because I think today we see  when I used to book a holiday vacation for our American and Canadian friends, adults only resorts were to us very much.

That's just adults. No Children. Now, even some of the bigger companies, adults only can mean something slightly different. And adults only cruises and you go, Oh, Oh, I didn't realize that. okay. Yeah. And of course you don't. So very, very quick story. We went to my partner and I in Mexico two years ago.  We was in a bar, I was speaking to these Australian guys.

One had just split up from his long term partner. His cousin booked a holiday. he just booked him totally by accident into a swingers resort in, in Cancun, right? And, and he went, you done it on purpose. He went, no, I didn't. But it was one of those things you go, could you imagine if you surprise your partner?

I have booked us a great holiday.  As much as, as fun as it could be for some people, you could always have the other side, right? Where you go, Oh no, I'm really uncomfortable with this. And what have you done.  

Yeah, so I actually know a good handful of people who ended up in that situation going to clubs because they thought they were just topless or nude like nude beaches and things like that and then they turn out being you know more like swinger resorts and  Honestly, I mean, probably, okay, like, I'm gonna have people that I'm talking to that had good experiences with that, right?

Because that's who I'm talking to. other people that I get totally shocked and run away. The thing is,  That even if you are at a club like that, again, this comes back to the misconception that everyone's running around having sex everywhere and with everyone. So when you're in the environment, you recognize very quickly that this is not the case.

People are Chatting like in any other bar scenario, they might be new, they might be topless, but that again, doesn't even mean. And like I mentioned to you earlier, many people participate in this community or go to hang out with this community, but they're not having sex or playing with others.

You might be shocked and scared if you ended up at a resort like this, but you would quickly realize like, Oh, these are like really normal people and they're fun to chat with and nothing is expected of us. I think that's the biggest thing. and so  Several people that I know,  I have one funny story of a couple that they did that they ended up at a club called Hedonism in Jamaica.

they went there for their anniversary, realized what it was, stayed the week, when they left, she said, we will never become swingers. And now they're swingers. 

once you taste this, fun, open minded community. And it's not what you thought it was. Then sometimes it'll just like, you know, planting that seed Maybe we should go back there. And so things can, and that's also what I do tell a lot of couples, these conversations, these, what if these, are we interested in these conversations can go on for years before people  decide to make any kind of move into it.

we grew up in a monogamous culture, so we just do it. We don't ever think about that. we don't necessarily learn monogamy very well, but it's just never a thought.

by learning. about ethical non monogamy and just that that is out there and that is a choice. Now if a couple does hear about this and they turn to each other and they say, you know, I don't think that's for us. Now you have made a conscious choice into monogamy that you never made before. And I think the next brilliant question is, and do we feel like we're doing monogamy well, because just adding in that option can also, instigate people to question what they're doing, even in the mode that they are, which is beautiful.

And the reason I love spreading the word about ethical non monogamy.  

That is so interesting. I would never be a swinger. But when in Rome, Do as the Romans do. sometimes you go,  excuse me,  we can go to a party, to a bar.

And again, I'll go, I'll pick on guys because it's easy I don't dance. I don't sing. Next thing you know, you feel a little bit more relaxed. Maybe you've had a couple of beers, but you're up on karaoke and you're singing and dancing, you know? And sometimes you're in an environment and you go,  that wasn't so bad.

why did I worry so much? I was more concerned about what I looked like than getting involved in the fun. I know this isn't for everybody, but people realize that swingers don't walk around with, you know, a tattoo on a head, say I'm a swinger and they're deformed, you know, that point they live, the normal people, like you've said, live and work amongst us.

Actually, it could be quite fun and just chill out, just relax a little bit around the subject. So no, I understand that. And it's good. Making people aware that I think is so important.  People are aware and they can make conscious decisions to either.

Not even say yes or no to explore more laugh about it listen to podcasts or watch things, right? Just understand. And then it happens. Great. If you decide no, it costs nothing.  

one of the ways people 

get into non monogamy and there are a few things. So like sexual adventure, sexual variety, also sexual fantasy will be an impetus for people. So like, hey, we've talked about having a threesome for all these years, like what if we actually did that, right? So there will be little things like that.  So that's the other thing that I think is important for people to understand.

You might have a particular objective, you might have your threesome, it doesn't mean you're non monogamous forever, or that you are completely changing your lifestyle. It might just be some sexual adventure for you and your partner. And, You know, as we mentioned, that sexual adventure may bring you closer and just be a fun, experience I think there becomes this divide of the ethically non monogamous and us. No. there could be, several versions ethical non monogamy can be anything you want it to be, as long as everyone knows about it and everyone's consenting.

So, if it's a once a year threesome,  that's what it is for you. 

Absolutely. That makes perfect sense. everybody knows and it's consensual, right? We're adults. We buy clothing. We go to this bar. We're having a threesome.

a foursome. We're having, we're just sitting watching others. They're watching us, whatever the case may be. We're going to do this every other week, every week, every two days or twice every 10 years.  It's people's decision. And that's the important thing about understanding and learning about these things, right?

Because it's your choice. All in, if you wish,  unless you understand a bit more. let's bring the listeners to your book then, we've got a relationship coach, we've got someone that's pushing that profession and then they  put a book together.

Now I've had a number of authors on this podcast and I love, Someone that's written a book because I always want to know how, why, how, all of those good things, right? So what, first of all, Lauren, what made you decide to go, I'm going to put pen to paper?  

this is something I've always done as a hobby.

I've,  written a blog at different times in my life. I have another blog on this professional website. and  Honestly, it was just really like, I was noticing a lot of my blog posts were  coming together in a theme.  And so that was kind of my first image of like, can I just put a bunch of blog posts together and like, this could be a book.

of course I spent more effort on it it was seeing these are, Real life and love lessons for everybody I wanted to write something Maybe no one will see it because they think it's so taboo that they could never go to a website called swinginglifestylecoach.

com but  now there's a book that is targeted at both monogamous and non monogamous people So maybe it's okay if I read that one 

Brilliant. I love that you are already writing blogs and bringing stuff together and have that creative mind. It's something I've recently started to try as well.

that fear of what if it's not good enough, I'm not going to push it out. Right. And that's backed me off. Yeah, 

yeah.  

I tip my hat to the fact that you do that and then take it that step further. give us an insight if you will. Sorry, Lauren, to what's the book about a little bit more detail.

and you know, who target audience maybe.  

the title is, For Better or Even Better, Seven Life and Love Lessons by Nan Monogamous.  Nan Monogamous, sorry to trip over that. and, So it's very succinct. There are seven lessons within that, and I would say it is not targeted at monogamists who are curious in the sense of, I want to become non monogamous, but it would take open mindedness to be like, well, what can I learn from a non monogamous? 

There's going to be a faction of people like that. it's too taboo to pick up the book, but these are universal life lessons it doesn't have to be anyone considering it just someone open to hearing about it I told through the lens of my experiences which are mostly swinging experiences So that can be fun for people to read Knowing that they would never do it And it can be fun for people to be like, I didn't know this world existed.

So I would say,  the non monogamous it's more of a validation. These are the things I have learned for the monogamous. it can be interesting like we talked about the communication piece and all these things real for all of us and our relationships.

And if I get a spicy story along with that, why not? 

Absolutely. It's real life. we see a lot of reality TV, especially in the UK And it's a bit overload, But people doing real things we don't often see. it's not scripted. this is what's happened see through my eyes. Don't worry about it. I'll take you on a journey. this is what happened to me. How I dealt with it and spiciness as well. So I can imagine there will be a good number of people that want to pick up that book and be tempted, you know, just to flick a few pages and go, okay, let's have a look. 

Yeah, it will be out in December. if people want to follow the. Advent of that coming out, I would say my website again, singing less black coach dot com is probably the best place or sign up for the newsletter I'll be announcing when it's released.

So you should. I'm not too proud to sound. I will be ordering a copy. I love the fact that when, well, when I have, guests on that have got books, I think it's great to, When I get to meet someone and read what that person's thinking 

How long did it take you to write?  

 I feel like I was writing it in my head for long before I actually put it onto paper. So, it wasn't like a slog of like, what am I going to write a book about? it was writing itself I wholeheartedly started in may.

a little over half a year, if I  succeed in getting it out in December, but it looks like I will.  

That's pretty good for an author, right? to get a book from.  

it's not a particularly long book. I didn't want it to be 

I didn't write a  thousand page novel or anything  

that helps with a time scale, but also maybe the fact that. short snap it and it's good, it's enjoyable to write. Some authors I know can write for longer and they have the writer's block and then they, block sorry, and then they go back and second guess and want to edit this, edit that and actually the fun element can disappear.

it sounds like what you've done, it sounds like you've brought Your own experiences to life and had fun doing it, which is amazing, right?  

Yeah, I really have. after you have the first draft, there's a lot of perfectionism that can show up in this creative process.

when I had the first draft, you know, the first people I had Rita, I'm like, I need friends that will be honest, but also kind, because I don't want to  You know, this is very vulnerable.  I got good feedback on that. I had another set of readers after like the next draft and so i've been getting feedback all along  to keep me going because In our own heads that can get to be kind of a scary place.

It's like, it's not perfect. It's not perfect. 

I'm an amateur podcast. it's a hobby. sometimes I put things together. Can't stand listening to myself back. people give advice, edit your podcasts, I hate doing the editing because I just don't like it to listen to myself.

And I think, Oh, I should have said this. I shouldn't have said, All of that can take the fun element away. So what I choose to do is either say, I'm going to be very good at editing and be relaxed in it, or it's just natural and don't worry about it and continue to enjoy it.

Right. it sounds like you've done the right thing writing your book, you've picked the right group a mix of kind, but be honest and don't get  overwhelmed 

 Yeah. it's funny that you say that because, so I was really having a trouble, a hard time making YouTube videos for the very reason that you're talking about.

And I was talking to somebody who does that all the time and they said, well, just make them and put them out without watching them again. And I was like, what? Yeah,  and they're like, no, really, you just do that and you can learn from them. but otherwise you'll just keep editing for the rest of your life and you'll never put them out there.

So I think that was good advice. 

Amazing advice. And I'm going to take some of that because I've been teetering on that side as well. You know, I should go on to tick tock. I don't, I'm a 45 year old bloke, I don't really want to And then you go, I'm just Rob, doing my thing.

of course we create. content whether that's writing, drawing, painting, podcasting, for life, we want people to enjoy it, but it's the labor of love we don't always need validation sometimes  you can just let that go.  

showing yeah, let's keep at it.

Absolutely. book number one,  I ask this of authors, especially if they have only released one book so far. Is there another book Can we expect another one  

my brain is saturated with this one right now?  

I can imagine. because it's not released yet.

you've got to go through that process. so in December, do you have a guide date as to when it will be released? 

My goal is 12, I'm not, trying to capture the holiday crowd because I don't know what this title, but it would be one that people would be giving for Christmas gifts.

But,  a lot of people will be online. So that's one way to look at it.  

yeah, a girlfriend to a girlfriend, Go for coffee. Hey, read this, this is right up your street you could get into that. you might make that market That's true.

why limit myself . 

we're gonna promote that on the podcast as well. just remind listeners, should they wish to follow you. try and get some relationship coaching.  Getting a first exclusive as to release your book. Where can they find you? What's the easiest place to find you? 

Yeah. Swinging lifestyle coach. com is my website and it's real central. I'm the same name on Facebook and Instagram. so it's always easy to find me. That's probably the most solid hub.  

Lauren, before you go, there's two points we've got to do. Okay. So on the podcast now on the new season.

I'm, I've got guests, that have to answer.  Listeners predicaments. Okay. So I've set some bits up and I want the guest to become an agony aunt or uncle. this may be easier for you because you do coaching, but it wasn't prompted we've got this predicament from a listener, Rob.

Do I tell my husband that I know his brother's fiance is cheating on him? Don't know what to do Help.  

you're a little blurry somebody knows somebody's fiance is cheating 

Do I tell my husband I know his brother's fiance is cheating?

 if you know something you have to say something if they find out later, that you knew and didn't say anything, that's more painful.

you can temper it with this is what I think I know.  You're not coming with an expectation that they're taking action on it. It's just, I know this piece of information that I think you would probably want to know and then leave it at that.  

probably good advice you don't want to be involved in creating this if it became a problem, you know, later down the line and someone knew and they lose your trust.

Oh, it's horrible. no, but Lauren, thank you for helping with that listener predicament. I hope that helps and, and go some way to, well make decision. But before we do let you go,  I do ask coaches, but someone, in your situation. If you have any listener out here that's not sure, maybe they want to broach the subject to their partner, maybe they don't, What's one piece of advice you would give? 

a lot of people fear approaching their partners, but I think that, you know, how we just talked about that lifestyle or swinging, sorry, we call it lifestyle can shine a light on the current dynamics of your relationship. If you are so fearful to even bring up something that you're just curious about, you're not bringing up it as something you have to do that you want to do that.

You just want that you're just. Curious about and would they be curious with you?  I think that's something to look at in your relationship. If you are afraid to bring up something that you are just have a curiosity about with your partner, what else are you not sharing with your partner? What else are you afraid of them judging you for?

That's what I would. 

Thank you for sharing that advice. it's something we can self reflect on in everyday life. thank you for sharing that 

of course. the curiosity piece is because of this negative stigma people have.

So where they jumped to in their heads by someone being curious is very different than if they were curious enough to find out what it's actually like, which is. Kind of two different things sometimes.  

Absolutely. And maybe just drop a link to the swinging lifestyle coach. com website into their inbox and see the reaction.

I don't know. Maybe that's terrible.  

send them this podcast. my favorite I listened to this episode.  

Absolutely. Lauren, you've been an amazing guest thank you for joining us. Being so open and supportive of helping others, you know, because there are people curious.

it's been refreshing to listen to how you go about things and look forward to the book. can't wait to pick up a copy.  

Thank you. thanks for having me  

You're welcome.  Lauren Hayes there, a relationship coach specializing in E& M and swinging lifestyle.

So an amazing guest to have on because lots of people have different thoughts and maybe, you know, some jokes about swinging lifestyle, but as Lauren said there, you know, generally it's a community and people are just fun and just normal people. but what a job to sit and listen to people and go through what the questions that our clients were posed to her.

if you can't speak to your partner about other things how could you broach that subject? Lauren helped with a predicament. So if you are the listener that wrote in, I do hope that that helps you. and if you would like to be a guest or you have anybody you think like to be a guest, please do get in contact.

Free for all pod at gmail. com. It's ever so easy or on Instagram. It'll be great to hear from you and do give us some feedback. You know, we are on socials. We're putting all the different bits and pieces out predicaments. We're putting confessions. If you have a confession. You want to send through anonymously?

Put it through and we'll read it out. If you have a predicament and you want one of the guests to help you to be an agony aunt, maybe they are a relationship coach, maybe a lifestyle coach, maybe they're just anybody like me and you without coaching and you want them to support, then please do that. It's great to have that interaction.

thank you for listening. We look forward to speaking to you again next time. And if you did love that podcast, that episode, then please hit the subscribe button.