Trans Liberation and Resistance

Since the inauguration, the Trump administration has issued near-nonstop attacks on the trans community. From the first executive order declaring that “sex” will be defined strictly as male or female, fixed at birth; eliminating official recognition of transgender or non-binary identities on passports, visas, and other federal documents; to a ban on transgender people serving in the military; to a recent declaration that he wants to issue a total ban on healthcare for trans people across the board–just to name a few. It seems like every day there is a new wave, and yet, in the face of those attacks and legislative hostility, powerful waves of resistance are rising. Today In the Den, Sara and her guests take a deeper dive into what that resistance looks like with one coalition of trans organizers, mutual-aid groups, progressive faith communities, queer associations, and dedicated allies committed to trans joy, freedom, and safety. 

Links from the Show: 

• Pink Haven Coalition: https://www.pinkhaven.org/ 
• Join Mama Dragons today: www.mamadragons.org 

In the Den is made possible by generous donors like you. Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today at www.mamadragons.org. 

Transcript

SARA: Hi everyone. Welcome to In the Den with Mama Dragons. A podcast and community to support, educate, and empower parents on the journey of raising happy and healthy LGBTQ+ humans. I’m your host, Sara LaWall. I’m a Mama Dragon myself and an advocate for our queer community. And I’m so glad to be part of this wild and wonderful parenting journey with all of you. Thanks for joining us. We’re so glad you’re here.

Since the inauguration, the Trump administration has issued near nonstop attacks on our trans community. From the first executive order declaring that sex will be defined strictly as male or female and fixed at birth, to a ban on transgender people serving in the military, to a recent declaration that he wants to issue a total ban on healthcare for trans people across the board, and that's just to name a few. It seems like every day there are waves upon waves of new attacks, and it's echoed across many states in the country. And yet, in the face of those attacks and legislative hostility, powerful waves of resistance are rising. Today, we're going to take a deeper dive into what that resistance looks like, with one coalition of trans organizers, mutual aid groups, progressive faith communities, queer associations, and allies committed to trans joy, freedom, and safety. This particular coalition is mobilizing and building networks of safety and direct support across the country for trans beloveds and their families who need to relocate, access safe healthcare, or stay as safe as possible wherever they are. Their work emphasizes community defense, mutual aid, and alternative systems of care for gender-diverse people. We are not sharing their name publicly during the interview for security purposes and to help protect those who are involved in their networks. So with us today is Laura, one of the Coalition's community organizers, and Darrah, one of their many volunteers, also an organizer. And Darrah is also the parent of a trans young adult. So we're in for a really beautiful conversation today. Laura and Darrah, welcome to In the Den. It's so good to have you. 

Darrah: Thank you. 

LAURA: Thank you so much, Sarah. It's wonderful to be here. 

SARA: I want to start by naming what we're up against. I shared only a handful of the attacks on trans folks that we've been experiencing in these last many months. In what many of us are clear is a coordinated effort to eradicate transgender people from public life. So, I'm curious to hear from you. How have this administration's recent policies impacted trans people and the broader movement for gender justice, in particular? Darrah, how about we start with you? As a parent, why don't you give us your parent’s perspective? 

Darrah: It's impacted me initially because I live in constant fear, not just for my child, but for all of the trans children across the country who are in places that aren't safe. And this eradication this – I think of it as a genocide – it weighs on my soul. And it keeps me in this work so that I can do something. I think that it makes me even clearer that I have to lean into relationships and community and doing the work of helping trans folks and trans children. 

SARA: Thanks, Darrah. I appreciate you naming that fear. It's real for so many of us. 

Darrah: It is. So many of our children are living it. Yeah. 

LAURA: Yeah, absolutely. That fear is real, as is the resiliency of this community, and the state-sponsored eradication of trans lives has – it's not new, unfortunately. It has been around for hundreds of years. Though, what we've seen in the United States in the last 10 years has been an extraordinarily targeted attack on our trans and gender-expansive community. And it’s one of those things where the authoritarians will pick a population and target that population to see what they can get away with. And we're seeing this for multiple communities now in the United States. But the trans community is in some ways a testing ground, and for folks who feel like if they just keep their heads down or don't think about it, or think it doesn't affect them, that is wrong. It harms everyone, and that is part of the reason that I've been involved in this work for so long, because trans folks have been at the forefront of our liberation movements, in the United States and around the world. And being alongside them is critical in this fight for liberation, which is the fight for liberation of all people. 

SARA: Yeah, thank you for that. 

Darrah: Can I tell one quick story? 

SARA: Of course. 

Darrah: My kids and I –I have two children. One is trans and one is cis. And we went to Germany this summer. I've spent a lot of time there. And we went to Dachau, the concentration camp. And going there with my two kids who have divergences that would have made them targets of what has happened in Germany, and going through the museum that told the history of just what Laura articulated, this testing it out on a specific population that doesn't have power and then escalating from there. My kids and I were overwhelmed by the sense that this history that we said “Never again!” was happening now in our country. And one among us is definitely a named and clear-cut target. I know we don't like to – people get frustrated with the analogies with Nazi Germany. But it was so blatant and so real that day that we went there. 

SARA: Yeah, and it expresses the level of fear that it is generating in so many people's lives. I know that a lot of the coalition-building and work that you are doing is helping to address some of those fears and impacts around access to healthcare around, one of the impacts is that people are leaving states they don't feel safe in for safer states. Those who can are really desperate to kind of get out of those really difficult. places that are targeting trans people just as hard as the government, states like mine, where I live in Idaho and Florida. So, to the degree that you can, in keeping the safety and security of your networks, can you talk a little bit about what that looks like on the ground, and what that work entails? Laura, let's start with you. 

LAURA: Yeah. So, in this network, we have so many groups around the country who are involved in various aspects of the work. And, a lot of what we do is connecting queer mutual aid groups with progressive faith communities around the country who are very supportive of this work and often have experience in the kind of community-based support that folks need if they've uprooted their lives and are moving to a new community. So many of these congregations and community groups have been sponsoring asylum seekers, for instance, or helping refugees. So they have some experience in what it takes to help people rebuild their lives when they come with almost nothing. And so, these are the networks that we've been building and relying upon in this work, including in unsafe states and areas we have some places where people can stay along the way as they're traveling. We have a lot of places that are offering resources, like what are safe communities to get to? What are health clinics that are still providing access to the healthcare that you need? Who knows people? It's very much one based on trust and relationship, and this is happening in every state. And in safer states that have some shield laws, for instance, where lots of people are relocating to, we have broader communities of welcome that are helping people find housing, with job searches, with getting into the medical care that they need, just going out to coffee with people in their new place so that they start to  learn their neighbors, to realize they're not alone, that they are welcome, and to help heal from the trauma that comes from being persecuted in this way and literally having to give up everything in your life and uproot that to move for safety reasons. It's traumatic. And there's also more to the story than that trauma, and we try to hold the wholeness of the person. 

SARA: That's amazing. I mean, in all that is happening, it is so encouraging to hear that there are networks and faith communities and organizations that are mobilizing to receive people who are relocating and really help them get established with all the needs that they have. And then to help direct in all of those other little ways that oftentimes we don't really think about. Darrah, so much of this work that you do, and Laura mentioned it a few times, centers on mutual aid and community safety networks. And this has become language that is becoming more and more utilized as we talk about meeting this moment with the attacks on the trans community and immigrant communities and many other communities out there. Why are those models so critical when state and federal systems are actively targeting trans people? 

Darrah: I think they are important on a lot of levels. One of the first things that comes to mind is part of this persecution, this oppression, is to separate people from one another. And when we are involved in this work, the mutual aid aspect says, “I have resources. I have skills. I have knowledge. I have something to share and to give. And to reach out across that. I have something, and there's a fellow human being, a beloved person who needs what I can give.” And that act of reaching out and of building relationship and giving what I can and receiving is life-affirming. And I think we can't discount that. It has the material real benefits of giving people what they need. But it has that sort of soft gift that is the gift to our hearts and our spirits. As we mentioned fear earlier, or I mentioned fear, it's a great way, from my perspective, of alleviating that fear. It's still there, but I am doing something tangible, and I'm building relationships. Laura mentioned faith-based communities. I think churches, synagogues, meeting houses are great places for building community. And when folks are being persecuted and they're uprooted and traveling, churches, and as I said, all those houses of worship, already have structures in place for welcoming people in, for giving them a community and a place to land. And I think that's a really beautiful thing, especially when the official structures aren't available to them. Not available because the things they need are being outlawed because their identity is being outlawed. Mutual aid groups don't care about laws.  

SARA: Oh, that's a great sentence. Laura. What do you have to add to that? 

LAURA: I mean, something I'm saying all the time is good people disobey bad laws. And I think mutual aid networks do rely on that. They are formed by commitment to each other and to community and to what we know to be right and good. And that is our commitment, not compliance. So we've been very clear in our network, we're not currently doing anything illegal. And yet we see the writing on the wall, and we know that our work might be criminalized anyway. And so that's why we are very cautious with just having our names out there and that kind of thing. Part of that caution, as well, as I am a white cis woman that has a lot of societal privilege and a very conscious choice was made in the network that I could be a forward-facing person because I have a level of protection that trans folks in our network might not have, and so it's better for me to take this risk than for them. And doing that in deep solidarity, and mutual relationship, so that I am following their lead, even as I am speaking on their behalf, is so key to this work. And I know we've said a relationship so many times, so that really is what we're holding and keeping people at the center, which is certainly not what our government structures are doing at the moment. So, really, we're in some ways being countercultural in how we are operating in the world, where we're saying we do have enough. We have the resources we need. We know that this is not how we want to be in the world and who we are as a people. And we're going to act like it. And it's asking folks, too, to question what they think might be possible. We're asking folks to get creative about how people might be housed as they come to new areas, like what do we have available to us that'll make this possible? Do we have large community buildings? Do we have a guest room? Do we have some land someone could put an RV on? We're trying to get really expansive and let our imagination be one of the tools that will ultimately defeat what we are currently fighting against, because we know that these times are hard right now, but they're certainly not the end of the story and that all regimes of this kind do ultimately fall. And right now, with this sort of direct service harm reduction model, we are making sure as many of our family make it to that point as possible. 

SARA: I love that. That's beautiful, and one of the things that I've really noticed about mutual aid networks, particularly in this moment, is that because they are not beholden to official structures and systems, there's a lot of adaptability and pivoting that can happen, and a lot of flexibility in how people are supported and needs get met, and they can really kind of move more quickly and nimbly than big organizations can, particularly big organizations that also might be being watched by the federal government at this point. We're watching that with the ACLU. So diffusing that opportunity for support seems to be of real benefit. I want to talk a little bit about the solidarity that you mentioned because your organization's mission emphasizes really clearly centering Black, Indigenous, and trans folks of color. Can you talk a little bit about how that principle shapes your strategy and your work and your decision making? 

Darrah: We're looking to center the folks who are the most vulnerable, and we know in our country and in our society, people of color and trans people are some of those most vulnerable people. We center them in, leadership roles, we try to raise up those voices to make them the part of all of the decision-making processes. We center them in that when folks need help from our organization, that we lift them up and help them. I'm not going to say we put them to the front of the line. But we do our best to try to help them and get them to a place where they do feel safe. It also recognizes that, safety for a white trans person might look different than safety to a person of color. So understanding what their needs are, not what we think their needs are. So that is, when we talk about centering Black, Indigenous, trans folks, people of color, that's what we're looking at. Laura? Do you want to add to that? 

LAURA: Yeah, thanks, Darrah. You said that so well. The folks that we're trying to serve in our network, too, are the folks that have the least access to resources, that folks with the resources likely aren't reaching out to groups like ours because they don't need to. They have the resources they need to move or keep themselves safe for what they need to do. And the intersections of Indigenous and Black and persons of color and people with disability and gender-expansive people, so many. And they're experiencing multiple levels of state and societal violence including chronic underemployment and restriction of benefits and all of these things that allow them to live lives of dignity. And so those are the people we decided need our network and that we want to serve, the people who are not being served in other ways. So that is a big part of why they're at the center. And also this network was started by BIPOC folks. So, that's another reason that they are at the center. We are following their lead, and we wouldn't have it any other way. 

SARA: It's great. It's such a beautiful model, and such a helpful tool for so many of us, like you said, in positions of greater privilege and societal power to think about how we plug in and how we show up. And I appreciate that leadership. I know I've learned a lot from all of you in that work and the work that you're doing. I'm just curious to know, how did the two of you individually get involved in this work? If you'd share some of your personal story with us. Darrah, I know you're a parent, but I'm sure there's a little bit more to that story. Why don't you start? 

Darrah: I am the parent of a trans young adult and I got involved in the work because I knew Laura personally. We had been acquaintances and friends and members of a congregation together. And she preached this amazing sermon service, at my church about the work that this organization does, that the network does. And I had been feeling like I needed to do something as I looked at the tally of anti-trans, anti-gay, anti-queer laws being proposed and passed on the state level. I thought, this isn't a time to sit on the sidelines. Whether I had a trans child or not, I felt that I needed to do something. And I reached out to Laura. And we started talking, and one of the things I loved about this organization, which was also a bit frustrating: when we decide we want to do something, we want to jump in with both feet. And I was told, we move at the speed of trust, Darrah. So it's back to the relationships, right? Like, Laura and I had a relationship of trust. But I needed to build the relationship with others. So it was a series of conversations over time and fully understanding what I was asking to be a part of, so I could make that choice. And I appreciated it. And once they welcomed me in – this is another piece that I love – once that you are welcomed in, you are part of that family heart and soul, and we find the place where you can be effective, whatever your time, resource, skill set is. We find that space. And when I'm feeling most fearful for my daughter, knowing that I am doing something. Was it Edward Everett Hale that said, “We can't do everything, but we can do something.” And that something matters. So I feel grateful that something I'm doing matters. 

SARA: Thank you. Laura, how did you get involved? 

LAURA: Yeah, thanks. So, I guess as a queer adult, I've been in relationship with trans and gender expansive people for a very long time. So I know them, I love them, and one of my beloveds is trans. And, while I'm not a biological parent, I do have a large mama bear streak in me. 

SARA: Mama Dragon, Mama Dragon. 

LAURA: Thank you, thank you. I didn't want to assume that I could be a mama dragon, but perhaps I have a mama dragon streak in me. And ever since I was a really little kid, I had a really strict and perhaps overdeveloped sense of justice, and just cannot let things stand if I find them to be unjust. So I was probably just always going to be in this work somehow. When I originally got out of college, I was really big on the marriage equality stuff, and was working really hard on that campaign. And just everything good in my life, I feel, has come from proximity to the movement and what I learn from folks who've had a different life experience than mine and what they can show me about what it means to be human, how vast and beautiful we are. And that I just desperately want that for everyone. I want everyone to know that these constraints that society has told us we have to fit into aren't real. They're made up, and that we don't have to live like this. We can live better. We can live more joyfully. We can live in a more connected way. And so, that's, I think, how I found a home here. 

SARA: That's beautiful. It makes me think about the commitment that you all expressed to trans liberation. And so much of this work in so many different coalitions and organizations really do talk about trans liberation. And I think you were getting at it a little bit there, Laura, but I want to ask both of you, give you a little chance to say a little more. What does that mean to you beyond just mere survival? What does trans liberation look like in its fullness? 

LAURA: I feel like my vision for trans liberation would be small, because it would just be mine, and this is a communal dream for liberation. I'm also a firm believer that trans liberation is all of our liberation. And what I think of is that folks can have the ability to fully be themselves without fear, that they can explore who they are, and make changes, and this is for all of us, that we can all explore this, that we can all continually discover new things about ourselves, and learn in relationship with others, and that the beauty of this existence is really ever-expanding. And it can only expand in so much as we appreciate and extend compassion for folks who have different experiences than ours. So, I really do feel that the dismantling of systems that are harming all of us, that trans liberation is at the forefront of that. It always has been, and that that is why I want to be part of what's helping move it forward. 

SARA: Beautiful. 

Darrah: I love the question, what is trans-liberation? I watched young folks coming of age, entering that time where they're trying to decide, trying to figure out for themselves, who am I? Where do I fit in this society that says, our government says it's a binary, there is this or that? And I've loved watching kids come of age in a community that says there's this or that, and everything in between and beyond. And the permission to live fully into themselves, to tap into that inner joy that says, “This is who I am, and I am seen, and I am known, and I am loved,” has been the most beautiful thing to watch. And I wish that every person could have that experience, whether they are trans or cis or non-binary. Wherever they fall, they should be able to. We all should be able to simply learn who we are and live out that with love and joy and acceptance. That, to me, would be trans liberation. And as Laura said, it would be liberation for all. I truly believe the adage that so many of our wise ancestors have said, “No one is free until we are all free.” We are bound in this cloth of mutuality, wound together, or woven together, or whatever that I'm massacring of that saying. I believe that it's true if you pull one thread of that cloth, you are hurting the whole cloth, and that's all of us. 

SARA: That's lovely. I think about one of the beautiful gifts of the trans community is this invitation to be our deepest, most authentic self, and to explore what that means for all of us. Like, to follow their lead in recognizing we don't have to fit into cultural and societal norms and boxes, just because that's what we've been taught or conditioned. That we get to decide for ourselves. And that can look all kinds of different ways. And we get to change our minds. And I just think that that gift has come alive. That idea of liberation has really come alive in this moment, which is a gift, given all of the oppression that folks are also experiencing right now. 

Darrah: I love that you lift it up, and we get to change our minds. I hate the argument about detransitioning or, folks who – I think it's the human condition, we do not ever arrive at one place and stay there. We are ever-evolving and ever-changing. And I could decide one day I actually am non-binary, and I can see how that feels, and live with that, and maybe someday I'll think, oh, actually, I'm not non-binary, and again, live into that truth that is for me in that moment, true. Because if there's one thing I know, as a 60-year-old woman, is that my body has never stopped changing. So, why would we ever assume that you're going to arrive at a fixed point, and that's it. So, thank you for saying you can change your mind. It is the gift of being human to be able to change our minds. 

SARA: Truly, and I'm glad we're talking about it, too. I think it's time for us to do an entire episode on demystifying or undoing the myth of detransition and regret and all of that stuff, because I think about it a lot, too, also, as a middle-aged woman who has had a lot of parts removed. I mean, my body is a completely different body, and it does change how I understand myself. But I thank the trans community and the trans folks in my life who have given that gift to so many of us to watch how beautiful that can be. Darrah, you talked about earlier moving at the speed of trust. And I love that phrase. And I am curious about how, as a coalition and an organization, and in all the work you're doing, you balance the sense of urgency and crisis response in this moment with that vision for the long-term liberation goals? And can you talk a little bit about how that works, and what the tensions are there? Surely this is not conflict-free. 

Darrah: I'll briefly and then let Laura, because she's been in the work longer than I have. The speed of trust, to me, is back to centering the folks that we're helping. And we want to make sure our volunteers understand how to show up for these beloved trans people that are needing our help, needing what we can do, and that they're not going to be harmed by our volunteers, by a thoughtless comment, by an ignorant statement, by any behaviors. So the speed of trust is the time it takes to get to know someone to make sure that they understand, because the pervasiveness of the normativity of gender and how we're supposed to show up in the world is so deep and so strong, that the speed of trust is making sure that folks understand that, and know how, to the best of their ability, avoid causing harm. And then to make amends when they can. And you're right. It is a delicate balance, because sometimes folks need help now. And we are learning more and more that you still have to go with the speed of trust. We can find ways, back to the mutual aid, keeping people as safe as they can be where they are until that trust is built. And we can find a way to get them somewhere more stable and safer. Laura? 

LAURA: Yeah. So moving at the speed of trust, I believe, is a quote originally from Adrienne Maree Brown and her book Emergent Strategy. So I just want to give her a shout out. Yes. The speed of trust and the trust that is put at the center of this network is another piece, it’s how we do the work, it’s how we do everything. So it's not a means to an end. We want to be the people we want to be while we're doing the work as well as fighting for this day when we're not constantly pushing back against all of these horrific pieces of legislation and cultural grossness. And there's definitely times, because I am a Type A, straight-A student, white, person who just wants to succeed, and get things done, and check off things on my checklist. And that unlearning, too, of the relationship really does need to come first. It has to be connection before action, has been so key. And, like you said earlier, Sara, we do have the ability to be more nimble, because we're not a huge bureaucracy. And I've been really touched by the times there have been conflict in the group of people, the coordinators of this work. And witnessing how repair has been done has been really heartening. And I think part of that is because we're not in a purely white space where, culturally, we haven't been taught how to do conflict like this, but to do conflict where you can say your truth, and say how you've been hurt, without that permanently damaging the relationship. That everyone's at that table, that the people who perpetrated that harm can hear it, can apologize sincerely, and we all together make a plan for how we're moving on for this. Which that didn't happen, or we're going to retread this same mile over and over again. But how do we truly integrate that and move on? There's times I'm like, wow, I wish we could have just had a college seminar on this class on repair work, because I feel like I just get to witness it happen over and over again. And it's taught me a lot about how to do that in my personal life as well. That conflict doesn't mean rupture, that it can be another step on the path to healing if you intentionally deal with it. 

SARA: How do you talk about that with your volunteers in terms of how to be present and effective in the work and minimize harm? And I say minimize because I recognize that even those of us who've been in the work a really long time, by the nature of our conditioning often will inadvertently cause harm. And even when we're trying really hard not to. 

LAURA: Yeah, absolutely. It's… it's a lot of conversations, it's a lot of asking folks to reflect on how they deal with certain kinds of conflict. For instance, if one of the volunteers wants to be a housing host, there's a great deal of conversation, about what that means, and also what are their own boundaries, and how they move through the world so that they can have some of their own safety and wholeness honored and respected, but also know who will be a good match for them. And also a lot of training around trauma-informed care because something that is true of us as humans is that when we are in survival mode, fight or flight mode, we can sometimes be pretty chill about it. And so that we're like, okay, we're dealing with a thing, we're doing the next thing we have to do. And once you get to a place of relative safety, sometimes that's when a bit of the tension goes out a little bit, and what was holding you together is allowed to relax, and then the pain and heartbreak can really come forth. And sometimes we're not always acting as our best selves. So, that's a big piece of what we work with volunteers with as well, of how do you accompany someone who might be going through a really hard time, who might not be acting as their best self at all times. And how do we stick with them. There's a lot of community agreements and covenanting and that sort of work of putting that relationship center and putting the needs of the people traveling at the forefront while also making sure that our volunteers are equipped and ready to do this work. It isn't necessarily the kind of work that you come to because you're like, “This will make me feel great, and then I get to go home and do whatever, and just know that I was a Grade A human.” Like, yeah, that's fine, but sometimes this work is hard. Sometimes it feels bad. Sometimes it feels like you're letting down people because you are. And how do you manage those feelings and still stay in the work. 

SARA: I appreciate you naming that, because I hear that come up a bit. And I think it's just important for us to recognize we are going to let people down. And also that there's so much swirling around us right now. I know one of the things that the volunteers that I have worked with have learned, and a lot from taking your lead, is that less is more. That oftentimes, folks we’re supporting don't want to be doted on, don't want to sit and have a conversation around the table. They want a safe space where they can decompress. And I recognize that from a volunteer perspective, it doesn't feel like you're doing anything. And that's a really hard thing for folks to work on in themselves because we want to feel like we're making an impact. 

LAURA: Absolutely. We're always telling our volunteers, you're not getting your new fabulous best friend here. Like, that's not what we're doing. 

SARA: Darrah, our Mama Dragons community, as is a community of parents supporting each other, empowering each other, educating each other on this journey with parenting queer kids. And so, I want to ask you, what role do you see parents and caregivers playing in the trans liberation movement right now? 

Darrah: I think our biggest role is showing up with love for our children, or any family members, or friends who come out to us as trans. Showing up for them and saying, “Oh, tell me more. That's really amazing. Oh, I affirm that. I love you. This is amazing. Of course you are.” All those ways that say, “I have always seen you. I have always loved you. and I will continue to do that.” That, to me, is the biggest thing we do towards trans liberation. I also tell all of my friends who don't have, or knowingly have, I should say it that way, knowingly have folks in their lives who are trans or gender-fluid, queer, non-binary, two-spirit: Don't ever ask a person with that identity questions about it. You can come to me, because I cannot tell you the intrusive, the crossing – they left a border 20 miles behind when they ask this question. I think that's the other thing we can do as parents, is to say, you can ask me those questions because I get that you're curious. But don't ever ask my daughter that question or anyone else. I think that it can be as small as that in our everyday relationships, letting people know we're a safe resource. You can come and ask me. Ask me whatever you want. Inside, I might be freaking out and say, “Oh my god, I can't believe you're asking that question!” But, I would rather have someone ask the question and get an honest answer, than to have them wonder and make something up or hear from a source that hasn't had conversations about it with someone who actually is trans. I think those are the two biggest ways. And then always, always showing up when the injustice happens. Always showing up to say, “That's wrong and I'm not going to take part in it.” And it depends on what your comfort level is. The standing up and saying, that's wrong, and I'm not going to be a part of or stand for it can put us at risk. So everyone has to make those decisions for themselves. 

SARA: Thank you for that. Laura, do you have anything to add to that? 

LAURA: That was just so beautifully said, Darrah. I think as community members, to think about if we do have some privilege to show up to the bigger meetings, the town halls, the things on your local level, the gross comment that you overheard in the grocery store, to say something in that moment. And that can be hard, it takes practice, but it can be done, it doesn't need to be done perfectly, but it really matters that folks who aren't just the trans folks, who aren't just the parents of trans folks, who aren't just the family members of trans folks, that it really is everyone claiming everyone as family, and speaking up for them. 

SARA: Oh, I love that. Everyone claiming everyone as family is such a beautiful vision. That really speaks to that idea of what is collective liberation look like? It looks like that. 

LAURA: Yeah. 

SARA: Relatedly, I'm curious from each of you, for families who are raising trans kids right now in hostile environments, what do you most want them to hear today? 

Darrah: I want them to hear that no matter what they're hearing in the news, on the radios, on TV, there are lots of folks who don't believe what's being said about them, that there are more of us, I believe, across our country that don't agree with what is being said by our government and by some of our political leaders, that we are here, and we won't be silent. They're not alone. 

SARA: Yeah. 

LAURA: Yeah, I was also going to say, you're not alone. We're here. We are with you. We are not going to let you go. And you are enough. And however you are showing up in the world, we are so grateful. And please don't give up because you've got a big family out there. We're ready to be with you in every way that we can. 

SARA: Just asking the question and hearing your answers made me very choked up. Thank you for that. I think we all need to hear more of that. 

Darrah: I think so, too. 

SARA: All that we're fighting, I think it's important to really make sure we hear those words. I hope that our parents and our families and our trans beloveds really hear those, really can take that in. Even in this political moment, as both of you have referenced already there, we know we've seen you get to be a part of it. There's so much creativity and courage in our trans communities, I’m curious what stories or moments have you witnessed of that creativity and courage that keep you going? 

LAURA: Oh, there's so many great stories. Something that's happened fairly often in our network is that travelers who’ve come through and gotten resources and support from us, after they get settled and they get themselves grounded and ready, they often come back to us to be volunteers in the network. And they are often our most powerful, committed volunteers. And having their voices and perspectives has made everything we do so much better. We’ve also seen some remarkable creativity around fundraising which is always so cool to see. I think one of my favorites is a young trans person who came in second at the world yo-yo championships and donated their prize money to the network. And it was so cool to see. And they sent this video. And it was so joyous and wonderful. And I’m like, I didn’t know yo-yos could be that cool and that gay. It was so great. That’s the stuff I really love. Also, that kind of thing of people getting creative around what housing might look like and how we can do it. And people who are like, “I’ve got some farm land that was gifted to me. And what if we built a community of yurts there?” That kind of thing, it’s just so many possibilities and really the only limits are what we can think of and what we can try. 

Darrah: What has kept me going is the relationships that I’ve been building with folks and the way that the network takes care of the whole person. Some of the work that I've been doing has been on the spiritual and emotional care that Laura mentioned folks come with carrying a lot of trauma. And we don’t look at the goal, the moving from point A to point B. We look at the whole human being and what their experience is and what do they need and how can we minister to the whole of them. And it’s not just the people that we’re helping travel from place to place to safety. It’s also our volunteers and the organizers that we worry and care for the wholeness of who they are and what they’re bringing into the work with us. And that keeps me going. It is so counter to what the rest of the world looks like. We are so transactional and monetized that this model is not that. The model is, where’s your heart, where’s your spirit, and how can I show up there and meet you in that place. And that keeps me going. 

SARA: It’s beautiful to hear that that is an option and an offering for people, for volunteers, for the trans community that that sense of wholeness and healing is part of this work to not just that direct support and safety. This has been a really beautiful conversation. I am just so grateful for the work that you two are doing in building this coalition and these networks. And I have learned so much. And I hope our folks have learned so much. And to the degree that we’re able, as folks are able to connect with us directly in our Mighty network, we can share information about how they can connect with you directly as well. But before I let you go, we have a couple of questions that we like to ask folks at the end of every podcast. And the first question has to do with the Mama Dragons name which came about out of a sense of fierceness and fierce protection – Laura, you already named it – for our queer kids. And so we like to ask our guests, so Laura I’ll start with you. What is it you are fierce about? 

LAURA: Oh, I am fierce about love. And I am fierce about justice. And I do believe that justice is what love looks like in public. So I am fierce about everyone is a beautiful creation that deserves to live in their wholeness. And I will fight for their right to do that. 

SARA: Beautiful. 

Darrah: I feel like I just want to say what Laura said. 

SARA: Fair. 

Darrah: I equally feel fiercely that – I’m going to call myself, I’m very anti-normativity. I’m fierce about supporting everyone’s right to show up in the fullness of who they are. And I don’t care where you fall on that spectrum of identity, I love and support and will show up there to meet you. And that to me is that justice piece that love looks like in public, is showing up for beloved people wherever they need. 

SARA: That’s fabulous. The final question is, what is bringing you joy right now, recognizing that in these moments in particular, we need to cultivate as much joy as we possibly can. So, Darrah, we’ll start with you on this one. Where are you finding joy? 

Darrah: Well, I always find joy with my dog, Percy, because there’s nothing like unconditional love that our pets bring to us. I find joy with my friends, doing things with them, laughing with them. And I find joy – I should’ve started with my family. It's not because my spouse and my kids aren’t important. I think I took them as a given whether it’s family, friends – I consider my dog part of my family, so my furry family members. – And I agree that joy is so vital because the work can feel heavy. And if we don’t balance it with joy, we can get dragged down. So thank you for that question. 

LAURA: I also get a lot of joy out of my family and my dogs. I’m getting a lot of joy right now because I live in a part of the world that does Autumn really, really well. So the trees are on fire with their true colors. And the air is crisp. And the wind just sounds so invigorating. I am a fall person. So this time of year, I just want to run around singing and skipping. So I’m just going to soak it up. Why not? 

SARA: Soak it up while you can. That’s wonderful. I love it. Thank you both so very much. This has been a beautiful conversation. 

Darrah: Thank you. 

SARA: Thank you so much for joining us here In the Den. Did you know that Mama Dragons offers an eLearning program called Parachute? This is an interactive learning platform where you can learn more about how to affirm, support, and celebrate the LGBTQ+ people in your life. Learn more at mamadragons.org/parachute or find the link in the episode show notes under links. 

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