Transforming Hate Into Art

What happens when an object that once felt magical becomes a symbol of harm—and then is transformed into an act of remembrance? Today’s conversation In the Den invites us to look closely, to move past what we think we see, and to sit with art that refuses to let us look away. Our guest is Tai Ericson, an artist known for transforming the familiar into the unexpected. Tai’s current project is as bold as it is devastating: portraits of murdered trans people created from the pages of Harry Potter books. The author of that series has, for years, contributed purposefully and relentlessly to a culture that vilifies and endangers trans people around the world. In Tai’s hands, those pages are no longer a vessel for that harm. They are cut, reassembled, and transformed—destroying the work itself and replacing it with a memorial to someone whose life was taken by the very culture it helped foster. This is a conversation about art as resistance, grief as truth-telling, and what it means to honor trans lives—not abstractly, but by name, by face, and by story. 

Special Guest: Tai Ericson

Tai Ericson is a Vermont-based artist transforming the familiar into the unexpected. By amassing everyday objects, often in monumental quantities, he crafts objects that tell one story from afar, then reveal their true identity up close. Tai's current project is creating portraits of murdered trans people using the pages of Harry Potter books. The author has contributed purposefully and relentlessly to a culture that vilifies and endangers trans people around the world. The portrait destroys her work, replacing it with a memorial to someone that lost their life to the culture she fosters.

Links from the Show:

• Tai’s website 
• Find Tai on IG
• Glaad accountability account of JK Rowling
• Join Mama Dragons today

In the Den is made possible by generous donors like you. Help us continue to deliver quality content by becoming a donor today at www.mamadragons.org. 

What happens when an object that once felt magical becomes a symbol of harm—and then is transformed into an act of remembrance? Today’s conversation In the Den invites us to look closely, to move past what we think we see, and to sit with art that refuses to let us look away. Our guest is Tai Ericson, an artist known for transforming the familiar into the unexpected. Tai’s current project is as bold as it is devastating: portraits of murdered trans people created from the pages of Harry Potter books. The author of that series has, for years, contributed purposefully and relentlessly to a culture that vilifies and endangers trans people around the world. In Tai’s hands, those pages are no longer a vessel for that harm. They are cut, reassembled, and transformed—destroying the work itself and replacing it with a mem

Transcript

SARA: Hi everyone. Welcome to In the Den with Mama Dragons, a podcast and community to support, educate, and empower parents on the journey of raising happy and healthy LGBTQ+ humans. I’m your host, Sara LaWall. I’m a Mama Dragon myself and an advocate for our queer community. And I’m so glad to be part of this wild and wonderful parenting journey with all of you. Thanks for joining us. We’re so glad you’re here. 

What happens when an object that once felt magical becomes a symbol of harm, but then is transformed into an act of remembrance. Today's conversation Mama Dragons is answering that very question, inviting us to look closely and move past what we think we see and understand, and to sit with art that refuses to let us look away. Our guest is Tai Ericson, a Vermont-based artist known for transforming the familiar into the unexpected. From a distance, Tai's work tells one story. But up close reveals another, one that invites viewers to reckon with power, loss, and personal responsibility and allyship. Tai's current project is really quite captivating, portraits of murdered trans folks created from the pages of Harry Potter books. The author of that series, as many of us know, has for years contributed very purposefully and relentlessly to a culture that vilifies and endangers our trans-beloveds around the world. In Tai's hands, however, those pages are transformed. No longer a vessel for that harm, they're cut and reassembled, destroying the work itself and replacing it with a memorial to someone whose life was taken by the very culture it helped foster. I'm excited for this conversation to talk about resistance and truth-telling and what it means to honor trans lives, not abstractly, but by name and face and story. Tai, thanks so much for joining us today. Welcome to In the Den. 

TAI: That was beautiful. Thank you so much. 

SARA: Well, thank you for your incredible art. It really is both heartfelt and provoking. And I'm curious, I want to dive right in, if you can share a little bit about how this particular Harry Potter transformation project came to be. 

TAI: I wish that I could remember the exact moment where everything kind of came together. I've wanted to take apart books for a long time. And 20 years ago, when I was in art school, I had this idea to take a book apart, and cut up all the letters and sort the letters into stacks of all the A's and the B's and the C's and the D's, etcetera. But I didn't know why. There's no “oomph” to it. And so I just had that idea in the back of my head for 20 years. And I was more recently, in the last two years, kind of approaching the idea again, and approaching it from, well, people get upset when you take apart books. And there needs to be a book that people wouldn't mind if it was destroyed. And that kind of led me down this little path, and then everything that's obviously happening to the trans community in the world right now, and everything that J.K. Rowling has done in the last, I think since 2018 or 2019, when she kind of emerged as who she is today. It all just kind of came together suddenly. And again, I don't remember the exact moment, but it was just like, oh, this makes a lot of sense. This actually makes a whole lot of sense. And so I kind of started the project with a number of ideas about a number of intentions. But it has exceeded those intentions. It has turned into a lot more for a lot more people than I realized it would, which is fun. It's fun to be a part of, you know what I mean? 

SARA: Yeah, it takes on a little bit of a life of its own, in a way. Especially in today's climate, I'm sure, it really speaks to people, perhaps in an even deeper or different kind of way. I'm curious if you can talk a little bit about the actual process of your creation, because you talked about, you know, destroying books. And you talked about how this art is made directly from those pages, reformed, and so talk us through a little bit about how a piece comes into being. 

TAI: So, the step-by-step process is, draw a picture, a basic pencil drawing. I'm not much of a drawer or a painter. I can do it, but I can just put a drawing down that has enough value for what I need. And then sit down and tear pages from the book, and just chop it up. And so, if you literally want to get down into it, I'll take a page and I'll cut the margins off, I'll cut the top and the bottom margin off, and then just slice horizontally separating the lines of text from the space between the lines of text. So I have a pile of just letters, and a pile of kind of the in-between. And so If you look at the last portrait of Sam Nordquist, you'll notice that his shirt was the lines in between and then the faces from both the two portraits is the lines of. And then there's, of course, more illustrations in the book. There are different fonts that have different weights. And so, all of the different values are created by different fonts and then how densely I pack it in. Do I cover the white between the words with letters? If I want it to be particularly darker, then I would. If I want to leave it a little bit lighter, I'll use more space. And it, it sounds intimidating, and I think it looks intimidating. But I don't think it's any more intimidating than something like a knit sweater, you know what I mean? Like someone sat there and essentially tied knots for how many days? And they have a sweater up out of it. It's just that this has not been done a terrible amount before, so it's relatively new. But it's not, in terms of the work, I don't find it intimidating, personally. But that's also why I'm doing it, I guess. 

SARA: Yeah. Well, I appreciate that analogy, that's really helpful. And they are extraordinary. I want to tell our listeners we'll be sure to post a link to your website in the chat so folks can go and get a close-up look at what you're describing now, because they're really, they're really stunning. and so it's fascinating for me to listen to how it all comes together. How long does it take you to complete a portrait? 

TAI: I have an answer, but I have an answer that I want to give if I get to where I want to be, if that makes sense. So basically, I've only done two. The first one, Ra’Lasia Wright, took me about two months. And I was working a part-time job at that point around two days a week. And then life kind of changed a little bit and so the second portrait of Sam Nordquist took more than three months just because I'm working three days a week, I'm in the studio two days, maybe two and a half days a week, and then other life stuff. So I basically help my partner run a hair salon. Long story short, life gets in the way. 

SARA: Yeah. 

TAI: But, if I get to a point where I can do this more and leave my part-time job and work five days a week full-time doing this stuff, I genuinely think I could get one done in two weeks, especially as I get faster as I learn the process more. 

SARA: Well, you've just described the life of a working artist. 

TAI: Right, exactly. I'm very fortunate to have the support of my partner, who is a very, very, very talented, accomplished hair stylist. My studio is above her hair salon. And she does a good enough job to take care of us both. That allows me the ability to only work part-time. 

SARA: That's wonderful. Do you have a vision for a collection, and how many you might accomplish? 

TAI: Yes, absolutely. Basically the way I see it right now, this is a series of portraits of murdered trans people. I'm going to say four, but I do intend to go farther. The reason I say four is because the conversation around the trans community, the trans experience in media a lot is that of tragedy and violence and loss. And so my series is kind of contributing to that. But perhaps we've created an opportunity here where we can have a different conversation and perhaps celebrate trans joy, trans success, people out there that are thriving despite the climate right now. And so I want to get to four in this series. And then start two new series. One, celebrating trans joy, and people that are alive and thriving. And then also celebrate trans history, trans icons: Sylvia Rivera, of course, Marsha P. Johnson, of course. And so the first show that I have kind of in my head is four of each. I think that'll be a very interesting complete show. And then, after that, continue on with what makes sense. So that’s kind of the thought. 

SARA: That's great. I want to stay with your choice to highlight, profile, and honor the lives of murdered trans folks because that's a really, that's a really powerful gift. And I'm sure it's really difficult to decide who you're going to use, and who you're going to create a portrait of. And I'm thinking also about this past November, Trans Day of Remembrance. I mean we saw probably, we saw numbers like we've never seen before in terms of those lives who have been lost, those trans lives who have been lost to violence or suicide. And it's really just heartbreaking. And at the same time, your tribute to those lives is really beautiful and powerful. How did you decide who to start with? 

TAI: I wanted to start with trans people of color, just because they're so disproportionately reflected in the statistics. And so I basically talked to my partner and a bunch of folks in the community, and we settled on Ra’Lasia Wright, who was from Minnesota, Minneapolis, and was shot and killed in December of last year. So 13 months ago. And I hate to say it, but it wasn't her for any reason over anyone else, it just kind of felt right? If that makes sense at all? It's a weird thing to talk about, is how do you pick, how do you choose? Sam Nordquist felt more, it felt right, it felt correct especially since Sam is currently in the news. And his killers are literally on trial now. And it felt relevant and I was able to get in touch with his sister. And she was kind enough to grant me permission to do all this. And so that's kind of where it started. 

SARA: That's interesting, just to kind of hear you reflect on how you started and where you went, because it takes a lot of care. And you're talking about the responsibility that is in your hands, then, when you take on a portrait project. I imagine that in doing this work in this way, with this subject matter there's a lot of grief you're holding in both the starting and you're contacting families and knowing you're representing lives taken by violence. What do you do for yourself? How do you hold that grief and work with that grief as you're creating? 

TAI: I think it would be easy for some people to just forget that these are people, that they're real people that had families and lives that were taken. And so it was very important, while I was working on these two projects, and continuing afterwards, to, I just try to remain conscious of it. Just live with it. Sit with it, every time I worked on it. I had a couple conversations with Sam's sister about who he was, about not just the person in the news, not just these five or six pictures that are on the internet, but an actual person. And so, it was not easy. Especially with what happened to Sam. It's important. If it wasn't hard, then it wouldn't be . . . 

SARA: Yeah, I hear that. 

TAI: Again, it's such a weird thing. It's like, it's part of the value, and I have air quotes on the value, because I’m not trying to put a value on these people's lives. 

SARA: Well, in the juxtaposition, and again, the use of the Harry Potter books, right. These two things are very juxtaposed in dismantling these words by this author who's caused harm, and reforming them in a way that brings some power and care and attention back into the trans community feels really important and really hard. Are there some reactions you've received from folks from the community that have really stayed with you? 

TAI: So the response has been very, very, very positive. So I'm on TikTok and Instagram, Technically, I'm on YouTube and Facebook and Patreon, but I've yet to really kind of figure out how to use those platforms. This has only been five months of activity. Most of the response is very, very positive. There's, of course, the negative, but I try to just scroll past that. So people send me their books. And a lot of them have notes or stickers, or drawings, or whatever that they've kind of included in there, which is really sweet. I want to make a video about that box of stuff I have, particularly. 

SARA: I love that people are sending you their books with their personal selves in them. 

TAI: So I had mentioned at the beginning how I started this project with my intentions, and it has grown into this thing. And part of that thing is that people have been sending me their books from all over the world. 

TAI: Are you getting books in different languages? 

SARA: I do. Yes, which I intend to use. I do want to end up doing Sara Millerey González, from Colombia. And she was killed horrifically just two or three months ago. And so I would love to do a portrait of her in Spanish. If I can use the language books that I have to make a tribute to someone from that country, from that language, I would love to do that. And so I have books in German, Dutch, Arabic, Spanish, Italian. Did I say French? I think I have a French. So, again, truly all over the world. People, even from Australia, I've gotten three boxes from Australia, which I can only imagine the shipping. 

SARA: Oh my goodness. That's incredible, it's incredible to know. 

TAI: I have close to 400 books at this point which is obviously far more than I need for this project. I do want to come up with something else to do with them. 

SARA: When people encounter your work for the first time, is there something you hope that they notice or maybe feel before they really even understand the materials and the backstory? 

TAI: So my work, since I was in school 20 years ago, has kind of lived in that realm of, “You see something from a distance, you decide what it is. And then you get closer and you realize that it's something else entirely. It's actually something that I'm familiar with. It's something that I know.” And while the two-dimensional portraits out of books that I'm doing right now is very out of the norm for me, it makes sense. It follows my aesthetic. I'm a 3D guy. I'm a sculpture guy. And so the two-dimensional realm is new to me. Yeah, I mean, I've always really enjoyed that kind of tricking people into something, objectively, like pretty I guess it'd be subjectively, something pretty from a distance. And then you get closer, and it's even better. 

SARA: I was very taken by the gown on your website, which from far away looks like a really beautiful silver, glittery kind of strappy, floor-length gown, and it's made out of thumbtacks. 

TAI: Yeah. So that dress I made in 2007. And it was really the first time in my life that I felt good at something, if that makes sense? That sounds dramatic. It was the first time in my life that I felt successful, like actually something really good. And that was part of my undergrad, my college thesis show. I had four pieces, and that was one of them, the dress made out of thumbtacks. It worked out pretty well. 

SARA: It's beautiful to look at. And then I keep staring at the up-close picture and thinking, ouch. I don't want to wear that dress. 

TAI: I have a whole series of dresses that I want to make. I'll get to them someday. Especially if this all continues to go as well as it. If we can stay on this trajectory, I'll get to a point where I can make a whole series of dresses. I have ideas. 

SARA: Very cool. So you went to art school. But I'm curious a little bit more about the story of Tai and how you got into art? Were you always kind of a creative young person? How did you find this particular path? 

TAI: So it was a little windy to get there. I basically went to college. And I didn't belong. I was too young. I was the youngest kid in my class going to and growing up. I was months younger than everyone else. And I didn't feel like I fit in. I didn't know what I was doing. I was like 17 when I went to college. And that's just too young. It's too important and too expensive to not know what you're doing. And so I dropped out. And I went back to school a year later, two years later, I guess for one thing, and then immediately abandoned that idea. And it was like, “I'm so fed up with this, I've spent so much time. I'm sick of it. I just want to graduate and I want to have fun doing it.” And where I grew up art was not, it was not put forth as an actual thing. I went to high school with sons and daughters of lawyers and doctors and bankers, you know what I mean? And it was kind of rebellious, I felt like, for me to just go to art, but I did. And originally it was just woodworking. I wanted to do that. But I fell into sculptural stuff. But without really knowing what I liked or who I liked. I had no art background at all. And I just found it. There's an artist named Tara Donovan who is fairly well known, who does what I do, but just with money, with a budget and a team. Some beautiful, beautiful stuff on an enormous scale. I eventually, yeah, just went to art school and found all this stuff and I just got lucky with the dress, because the dress kind of gave me the confidence to try to keep on doing it. 

SARA: And what about your childhood? What was life like growing up? 

TAI: I was very lucky. I have to say it. I grew up with a very, very good, loving family. I have an older brother. We all got along for the most part. And socially, I was a wreck. I'm a very, very late bloomer. I had friends. Of course I had friends. But I never felt comfortable with those friends. I never felt accepted. I never felt wanted by those friends for the majority of my youth and even in college. But, mid-20s is when I started actually feeling like a competent human being. Yeah, academically, I was fine. But I played sports. I was terrible at them all. 

SARA: Well, this Harry Potter project in particular comes in this very politicized moment. And when trans and non-binary lives are being targeted in really harmful and really scary ways, and there's a lot of fear. And while the portraits themselves are beautiful and bring all of this beauty out, there's that underlying theme of that fear and that violence behind the humans who died that you're sharing in your art. How do you think about that, this moment, and all of those pieces woven together? 

TAI: So, this is fun, this actually kind of ties into the, to the response, the comments. I'm making these portraits, I'm doing this project for the trans kids, for the trans community, for people just to know that there are people out there that are willing to kind of go to bat for them a little bit. You know, I'm not doing this to piss off J.K. Rowling. I don't care what she thinks. You know, I'm not doing this to remove her work from the world. People come up with some ideas in the comments about I'm an idiot for doing all this stuff. But I'm not doing it for them. I'm doing it for people. I want people to see that there's someone thinking about them, that there's someone that's trying to make a difference.

SARA: Why does that feel so important to you? 

TAI: The trans community is in peril. They're in crisis. There's a law, a bill that was put forth in Texas to having a gender marker on your passport or your license not what it was at birth, a felony. We have to stand up. We have to do something. We have to help. We have to do anything. We have to do something. 

SARA: Trans folks are in peril and in so many ways. And we have to do something. And what your work really offers us is the gift of recognizing that we all have different gifts to contribute to the doing something. 

TAI: So art has always had the potential to be a powerful form of protest. 

SARA: Especially in a moment like this, when to be an ally is to show up, is to do something, is to do whatever it is that we can to support, protect, resist, push back against the forces of harm from our government in the trans community. What role does art have to play in all that? 

TAI: I mean, I feel like art can perhaps inspire a person to do more. They can raise awareness. There are folks in the comments that don't know about J.K. Rowling, about what she has said or done. And so there are probably, I'd guess maybe 20 people, out there specifically that were educated in the comments because of a thing that I made. So that's 20 more people out there that know about. J.K. Rowling, what she has said about trans people and what she's trying to do to trans people. And so that feels good, raising awareness. I feel like raising awareness is one of those phrases going to, it's just kind of like, “Oh, raising awareness.” But in that very specific, direct way it feels important. 

SARA: I have a curious question about this because the Harry Potter series is so beloved. And we've watched even the actors in the movies struggle with how they can support a community --and a large queer community, too – who fell in love with these stories of misfits and outcasts and fighting evil, right? I mean, there's storylines there that are really powerful and really speak to people. And so I'm curious how you wrestle and how you interact with that tension between the story itself, and how it speaks to folks, and the human behind the story and your art reforming and reshaping her words. 

TAI: I mean, I don't have to do much. The framework is already there, set for me. I mean, Harry Potter and that whole world was so important to so many of us. And I was that perfect age for Harry Potter and waiting, anticipating the next book. When the movies came out, such a big deal. And so many folks were in that same boat. And another piece of this project that I didn't realize was going to happen was this catharsis. It's a massive catharsis for a lot of people, literally but also emotionally. People are sending me their books. They're literally sending that off into the world. But also, it's allowing folks to move on. It feels good to be able to provide that service to people, oddly enough.

SARA: Yeah, I'm curious for our listener's sake, for the folks who are in our community who may be in that camp that don't know much about J.K. Rowling's anti-trans stances. Do you want to share a little bit about that? 

TAI: So, I think it started in 2018, where she liked or commented or whatever, a tweet. But it was basically like kind of a hint. Someone said something that was completely transphobic, and she reposted it, or liked it, or whatever. And then from there, just kind of continued on that and doubled down again and again and again. And she's putting her money into bills, into programs that are on the surface “pro-women” because everything is pro-something. They're not “anti-trans", they're “pro-women.” There was a bill that passed in the UK six months ago, maybe eight months ago, that I believe officially declared “your gender at birth was your gender now, and transness doesn't exist.” And then I think she posted a picture of lighting a cigar on her porch being like, “Oh, it's wonderful when things go to plan.” Or something like that. I don't remember exactly what it is. She, under the guise of pro-women, she is very, very anti-trans. The safe space bathrooms kind of thing, which relies on the fact that apparently trans people are inherently bad which, as we know, is absurd. 

SARA: There's a nice little chronology that was put out by GLAAD that we can link for folks who want to do a little deeper dive. But I think just a little bit of the premise was helpful for folks in case there are still people who have found the book so beloved and powerful and don't know . . .  

TAI: For sure. 

SARA: . . . and the whole tension between that. You mentioned at the very beginning, and I just wanted to chat a little bit more about destroying books because I'm sure there is – I know there is – for those book lovers in the world, a whole community of people who think this is the worst thing that anyone could do, is destroy a book. 

TAI: Yeah. 

SARA: Even to make it into beautiful art. So, how did you think about that and wrestle with that as you were thinking? I mean, you said you always wanted to work with books. 

TAI: Yeah, so the funny thing is that I work at a bookstore. That's my part-time job. And so I am aware of – I'm mildly aware, I'm super part-time, and I'm very much not, I don't know everything about what's happening at the store and in the publishing world – but I know that there are books that are sent back to recycle and to be destroyed all the time, every day. And so destroying books is actually like, it happens. It's not criminal. 

SARA: I mean, I find it interesting that I hadn't ever really paused to consider that bookstores are in the business of destroying books for all number of reasons. 

TAI: Yeah. We buy books that we think are going to sell. And if they don't sell over a year or two, then we send them back. And maybe the publishers that we send them back to will ship them off to used bookstores or what. But they get recycled. 

SARA: I was just curious like how do you respond, and what is the conversation around destroying books, especially with those folks that feel some feelings about that? 

TAI: So one of the most common comments is “Normally, I don't like destroying books, but for this, I can get behind it.” I would say I would, I mean, dozens of people have said that. It's funny how I get a lot of repeat comments and that's definitely one of them. 

SARA: I sort of feel like your project is “upcycling” a book, right? Taking a book that has some real problematic bits that are associated with it and upcycling it into something new and different and beautiful. 

TAI: One of the problems that I'm having is that I have been sent, I have close to 400 books now. So the very first portrait of Ra’Lasia, I used my own book. And I took it all from one book. And I used maybe a third of the book. And so basically what I'm saying is that I have far more books than I will ever be able to use for this project even if I made these portraits for the rest of my life, which I would. I won't use all these books, so I have to come up with something else to do with them. Another one of the common comments is, “Oh, just have a giant bonfire. It'll be great.” That's the one thing I won't do. Book burning has very specific connotations in our world and that's not the vibe I'm going for at all. I'm not going to do that. I did have an idea last week, actually, I don't know how practical it is. But do you know this whole storyline with J.K. Rowling and mold, and black mold? So basically, she posted a video a couple months ago and there was something on the wall behind her that looked like black mold, like a lot of it, like crawling up her, I'm sure it was something completely normal and innocent. But the internet, as it does, took off with it. And so I called her Lord Moldamort in one of my videos, and people really liked that. But there's this thing about mold. And maybe the reason she is, is because mold has taken over. But I was thinking that it could be interesting, potentially dangerous for me, but could be interesting to perhaps pulp the pages and sculpt something, make something and then put it in an environment, spray it with whatever, put it in an environment so that it gets moldy. 

SARA: Ooh! 

TAI: I don't know what it would look like. I don't know what the form is. But something pretty, something relevant but then covered in mold. I haven't obviously figured out the entirety of the idea, but I do think that is something that I'm going to play with. 

SARA: That's fascinating. 

TAI: But also, I'm also really scared of mold, so I don't know how I'm going to do that safely and not kill myself. But that's an idea. 

SARA: Fair. But it's fascinating. 

TAI: And I will 100% look into it when the time is right because I could use a lot of paper. And I could make something pretty big like a giant model of Hogwarts, covered in mold.

SARA: That’s an interesting idea. 

TAI: It could be interesting. I don't know if it needs to be Harry Potter-themed. I don't think I want it to be. But whatever. We'll figure it out. 

SARA: I'm going to completely take a turn here, because our community here in Mama Dragons, we're primarily parents of queer kids of all ages. But in particularly the parents of youth are feeling that peril that you mentioned earlier, that deep, deep fear about what's coming. And I don't want to diminish, actually, the fear that anyone in our trans community is experiencing right now, because they are the center of so much harm and targeting from our federal government and so many state governments. And I'm just curious, how do you think about that? In the work that you're doing, I want to ask all my guests, what wisdom or words of encouragement might you have for those communities that are really in that place of just daily trying to determine, “What do I do now? How do I help my kid now? What comes next? Do I have to leave? How do I fight this?” All of those things that are coming at us. 

TAI: I was thinking about this before we started talking. I imagine if we want to oversimplify things, there are three kinds of parents of queer kids. The parents who love and accept them, perfectly fine. Folks that love and accept them with fear and questions and whatever. And then there's folks that are just like, “No, get out of here.” And I imagine your audience is made up of these two over here, the parents that accept them, and the parents that want to accept them. And almost the entirety of my friend group, like literally entirely, is LGBT. And almost all of them have at least one parent that they don't talk to which is just – this is tragic. I hate it. That's quite literal. I'm not exaggerating. And these people, these friends of mine, they're all wonderful, successful, beautiful people. And I guess I feel like, “Imagine if they had both parents. Imagine if both of their parents accepted them. Imagine if they didn't have this demon that they have inside of them where they don't feel accepted by a parent.” And so, it's so, just accept your kid. 

SARA: Yeah. 

TAI: They're going to be who they're going to be. And you can be a part of it or you can't. 

SARA: That puts it into some really stark relief for me to think about all of the people, all of the queer people who have some level of distance in their family, particularly with their parents and lack of support and lack of love, because of their queerness. And that makes it all the more important, I think for us to step up the love for our kids and then to show up in ways that we can extend that love outward into the community. 

TAI: I will say that all these friends that I'm talking about are in their 30s and 40s and 50s. So I used to live in Boston and Jamaica Plain, which is a very queer-friendly area. And the number of queer kids with both parents involved and there and accepting was – it's very, very, it was wonderful, it was encouraging. Granted, it's a very, very specific pocket of Boston, one of the friendliest places for queer folks in the world. But it was still like, it's still there. And it's wonderful to see the younger generation being supported. 

SARA: That is always wonderful. 

TAI: Which is what you're doing, you're giving parents the tools to accept and learn and understand their kids. 

SARA: Yeah.  

TAI: It's great. 

SARA: So for young people in our lives, particularly young queer kids who have a love of art and art making and maybe a vision to become artists. What advice do you have for them? 

TAI: It's funny, I knew you were going to ask that. 

SARA: Well, of course! 

TAI: See, the problem is, I don’t know if this is good advice. But we're going to go with it because it's kind of what I have. 

SARA: We're going to go with it. 

TAI: When I left art school in 2007, that was really before social media was a thing. And it was there, but it wasn't what it is today, of course. It was Myspace and LiveJournal and to be in a Facebook. And the path laid forth for artists was galleries and magazines and that kind of stuff. And I did that for a couple years, and it just didn't work for me at all. I just didn't find it rewarding. But, with social media, people want to see your work. They do. And it doesn't need to be politically important. It doesn't need to be socially significant protest work about the trans existence, the trans community. It can be anything. But that is there, and people have access to it. Because hopefully, I will get the galleries and the magazines that I was looking for 20 years ago out of all this, through social media. But, I mean, I guess. the easier answer is just to do it. Just draw. Just paint. Just build. Just make. I went to art school, but I don't know if you necessarily need to go to art school. It's not attainable for everyone. And I don't think you need it to do art for yourself.

SARA: In between these projects that, as you're working on the vision for this portrait collection. Do you just make random art as an outlet in between? 

TAI: So, actually, no. 

SARA: That's always a curious question I've had for artists. 

TAI: No, I have never been that kid that would sit down and draw or doodle. I've never felt it as a way to express myself. I've always tried to make stuff that I think people would find interesting. Actually, you know what? This reminds me. So, I think one of the things I had a hard time with in art school was that a lot of stuff that's in galleries right now, you need a degree in art history to understand. There's a lot of really wild stuff out there and it's important. But I didn't have that art background. I always felt like an outsider. And so I wanted to make art for me. I wanted to make art that you don't need a degree to understand, which is why the common objects worked so well for me because everyone knows what a thumbtack is. Everyone can see that from the street and be like, “Oh, okay, cool,” draw me in. And then if there's a conversation to be had beyond what's physically there, then all the better. 

SARA: Yeah, I know it's different styles and different personalities. I do a lot of writing in my world, and I know that I am the type of person that can't work on more than one thing at a time. So if I have a project started, I have to keep that going until it feels like there's some completion point to move on to something completely different. 

TAI: 100%. I have, probably two or three other projects that I’ve started, that are in progress in my studio. But the Harry Potter thing came along, and I was like, “Okay, I'm all in on this right now.” 

SARA: Well, I'm excited for our community to see this work on your website. And we'll put some of your social handles in our show notes as well, so folks can follow you and follow the conversation on Instagram and TikTok, because I'm sure that's really interesting as well. It's beautiful. They're just really stunning to look at. And I think the beauty comes even more alive once you realize what it is you're looking at and the story behind them. Before I let you go, however, Tai, we have some final questions that we like to ask all of our guests. And the first one has to do with the Mama Dragon's name, which came about out of a sense of fierceness and fierce protection for our kids. So we like to ask our guests, what is it you are fierce about? 

TAI: I have a bit of an obsessive personality, if that wasn't obvious. And once I get going on a thing, I kind of hit it pretty hard to the detriment of everything else around me. And so I'd call that fierce. 

SARA: Definitely. Especially when it comes to art. And the final question I have for you is, what is bringing you joy right now? And especially in these times that are so fraught, we like to remind each other that we need to cultivate as much joy as possible wherever we can. So, where are you finding it? 

TAI: So, right now, I live in Vermont and it is the most beautiful place. It's not the most beautiful place in the world. But it is so, so beautiful. And I've really genuinely enjoyed, even right now in January, being outside. There's this little mountain outside my window, which is actually in New Hampshire. I live right on the border. And I can see New Hampshire from here. And it's absolutely gorgeous. And I really love where I am. And I get to walk to work which is amazing and wonderful. 

SARA: Yeah. Wonderful, that's great. Vermont is a beautiful place. 

TAI: Yeah. 

SARA: And experiencing all that joy in nature. Tai, thank you so much for your time and for this conversation, and for the beautiful work that you are sharing with the world. 

TAI: Thank you. Thank you so much. 

SARA: You're very welcome. 

Thank you so much for joining us here In the Den. Did you know that Mama Dragons offers an eLearning program called Parachute? This is an interactive learning platform where you can learn more about how to affirm, support, and celebrate the LGBTQ+ people in your life. Learn more at mamadragons.org/parachute or find the link in the episode show notes under links. 

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