cemetery boys by aiden thomas

join us for a spooky journey through the pages of Aiden Thomas' spellbinding novel, "Cemetery Boys." in this episode, we dive deep into a world where the living and the dead mingle and schoolyard bad bois can be summoned on whim.

from the allure of sexy ghosts to the vibrant tapestry of young adult fiction, urban fantasy, and paranormal romance, we unpack the rich layers of LGBTQIA+ romance and Latinx representation woven throughout the narrative (including a conspiracy that Yadriel is a watertok influencer). through Yadriel and Julian's love story, we explore the importance of visibility and representation in literature, celebrating the power of diverse storytelling to empower and uplift marginalized voices.

tune in as we unearth the magic of "Cemetery Boys" and celebrate the beauty of love, acceptance, and the power of reading diversely (also the power of keeping your school attendance record squeaky clean).

List of our favourite queer literature:

Conversations with Friends - Sally Rooney
The Rachel Incident - Caroline O’Donoghue
A Little Life - Hanya Yanigahara
The Great Believers - Rebecca Makkai
They’re Going to Love You - Meg Howrey
Seeing Other People - Diana Reid
Exciting Times - Naoise Dolan
Young Mungo - Douglas Stewart
Roses in the Mouth of a Lion - Bushra Rehman
Her Body and Other Parties - Carmen Maria Machado
Thirst - Marina Yuszczuk
If We Were Villains - M. L. Rio

synopsis music by Maksym Dudchyk

choose our next podcast read by going here and voting in the first week of each month!

make sure you subscribe to hear our groundbreaking thoughts as soon as they are unleashed. if you want to be on the same page as us, follow us at talklit.gethit on Instagram and TikTok.

theme music born from the creative genius of Big Boi B.

join talk lit, get hit podcast for deep dives into the hottest BookTok recommendations, trending contemporary fiction, and literary favourites! each episode features book discussions, spoiler-filled chats, and thoughtful literary analysis of novels everyone is talking about - from viral romance and fantasy to modern classics. whether you’re looking for BookTok book reviews, author interviews, or a virtual book club experience, out podcast is your go-to space for readers who love stories and want to explore them in depth.

talk lit, get hit are reading and recording on Giabal, Jagera, Jarowair & Turrbal lands. we acknowledge the cultural diversity of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples and pay respect to Elders past, present and future. always was, always will be.  

Transcript

Laura 0:00

Hello and welcome to Talk Lit Get Hit, a podcast where we read questionable books recommended to us by social media and talk shit about them.

Eryn 0:07

We're Bridget, Erin and Laura, three friends who haven't mentally progressed since high school, where we bonded over a love of music and books, but mainly Twilight.

Bridget 0:16

Brace yourself for a heady cocktail of somewhat highbrow and incredibly lowbrow ramblings about all the books the internet loves and our journey to figure out why.

Laura 0:24

This episode we are dead excited to talk about a book that asks the question: what would you do if you summoned a ghost and you couldn't get rid of them? P.S. The Ghost is Sexy. We are, of course, reading Cemetery Boys by Aidan Thomas. Bridget, hello. Hello, hello. Erin is booked and busy today, so we are flying solo? Duo?

Bridget 0:46

We're not flying solo, but we're not flying as a trio. Would you say we're soaring flying? Yep.

Laura 0:52

Would you even like maybe say there's not a star in heaven that we can't reach? Yeah. If we're trying? Yeah. Oh my god. So beautiful. Just poetry pouring out of me. We haven't recorded since the start of April, so What gives?

Bridget 1:10

Wow, this bows well. Maybe Erin keeps us on track.

Laura 1:14

I don't know.

Bridget 1:15

Laura, what did you do in April?

Laura 1:17

My month was really lovely. It was filled with a bit of camping. I went camping twice. As soon as the weather cooled down, I thought, let me get amongst it. And now I'm feeling that that's enough. You've ticked that off for this year. It's done. I absolutely thrashed camping for two weekends and now I'm I'm finished. But got the opportunity to touch a lot of rainbow lorikeets and some king parrots. So that was like I felt about five years old again. I was feeding them, and I was like, it tickles. They put it. No poo. So I think that's why I'm riding on such a high. It's always the risk. Yeah. But I mean, they say it's good luck. True. Um, and if the rumors are true, then what do you have against me? You're in for bad luck. Yeah. It doesn't bode well. My cat got into a bit of a scrap in the neighborhood, but he had to get a tooth removed. So that has been very sad for him. And it's my first time seeing him out of anesthesia. So he was like really woozy and snuggly. And so cute. So sad for him, but kind of good for me because he's been really snuggly. Apart from that, the only other notable thing that popped up multiple times through my month is that I've been using pencils a lot more than usual. And I love it. Have you like if you guys just want to de-stress, just go sharpen a bunch of pencils and then write on some paper with your really sharp pencil. It is like no other experience.

Bridget 2:40

Do you think it would be improved with an electric pencil sharp?

Laura 2:43

I mean, I don't know. I've never actually used one. Maybe the song. It's so embarrassing.

Bridget 2:47

No, I haven't either. And like I always used to be, like when I was watching American movies, and they'd go and sharpen their pencils at the electric pencil shop, and I was like, that is something that I feel like I need in my life because you've seen one in real life. You get sore hands.

Laura 3:02

Yeah. RSI.

Bridget 3:05

Talking about the real the real issues that plague our world.

Laura 3:09

Come to work like with a like post an enigmatic bandage on your hand on your Instagram story, like in the hospital exports. What happened, babe? DM me. Sharpen too many pencils.

Bridget 3:21

I mean, I get it. I'm supportive of your pencil case story. Thank you. How about you? My month was good. I went to Melbourne to see Nial Horrin, and that was very nice. It is really nice going to a concert where I'm not so like emotionally invested. I do love Niall and I controversially think he might be my favourite member of One Direction. But like, you know, it's not the Eras tour. I'm not like going to have a hangover from crying the next day. So it's nice to get it. I can drink water. Yeah, exactly. I can eat something, I can drink water. I can like sit down. You know, I don't have to stress about getting there. If I get there, I get there. And I did get there. That's so beautiful. So that was lovely. But it was also just like perfect weather. We read like a lot of books in the park. We read in um the State Library for an afternoon. And also I decided it was the right time in my life. Like whether I had the Tortured Poets Department as a soundtrack, which is another big thing for my month. And just the general vibe of Melbourne, I decided it was the right time to read normal people. God, what can I say? It is a masterclass in sad girl fiction. And it is obviously the blueprint. And I'm so glad I waited until like the time was right to read it because it was such a good reading experience.

Laura 4:36

Oh, I'm so happy for you. I was really nervous. I felt in my soul that you would enjoy it, but I was nervous for you at the same time.

Bridget 4:43

This is something I do with so many books. Like I just haven't read so many because I just want to wait for the right like mood. I guess I am a mood reader, but like to the extreme where I put something off for like years before I open it. And then I'm like, oh my god, I should have read this like four years ago. And then I'm like Where you been? Look, yeah, exactly. So now I'm excited to read the rest of her. And watch the show. I want to watch the show, even though I've seen like I feel like 80% of the clips on TikTok in like various edits and stuff. One of my favourite pastimes.

Laura 5:13

I think the show is one of the rare cases where the show is just as good as the book. It's so good. It's so sad.

Bridget 5:20

Oh, I love it. Okay, I'm so excited. I have to get a Netflix subscription to watch it, but that's okay. Because I also want to watch Bridgeton. So I'm so excited. Um I want do you want to re-watch that as well? It's a lot of TV goals for someone who hates TV.

Laura 5:34

He's fearful of TV. Yeah. Yep.

Bridget 5:38

But that's okay. We you know, we all grow as people. We learn.

Laura 5:41

Well, talking about Sally Rooney is actually a pretty good segue into something I was thinking about this month. Reading Cemetery Boys was to cover off on the genre of like an LGBTQIA plus focused novel. It got me thinking about other queer novels that I've read and enjoyed. And I have a Sally Rooney novel at the top of the list. Maybe not the top of the list, but top of my mind. Um, and that's Conversations with Friends. So again, just like a wonderful masterclass in sad girl fiction. But some other Irish sad girl fiction that I would add is The Rachel Incident by Caroline O'Donohue, which I know you loved. Yeah, so much. Another one I know you love, Diana Reed Seeing Other People. So good. Probably she's only released two books, but I would say she's one of my favourite authors. Yeah, me too.

Bridget 6:29

Both of those were on my list. I love an Irish sad girl book because another one for me is Exciting Times by Nurcia Dolan. I think I was. It was great as well. Yeah, I really love that book. And then in the same sort of part of the world, I really loved Young Mungo by Douglas Stewart. I just recently listened to that as an audiobook, and it's not really the kind of book that I would usually read mainly because it's about men or like boys, and I'm not really I mean, as we'll talk about, I'm not really interested in reading about boys. But Young Mungo was so, so heartbreaking and so sad, but just like such a brilliant book. I loved it so much. I loved Shugi Bane. Shuggy. I do want to read that, but I feel like I need a break because I feel like it will also be sad. But I've read a few ones recently that I've really liked. The first one is a book called Roses in the Mouth of a Lion by Bushra Riemann, and it's about a young girl growing up in Queens as a Muslim American. I don't know, just about like girlhood and her friends and her family and expectations of her community that don't align with where she wants to see her life go. And I really, really love that book. Another one is Her Body in Other Parties by Carmen Maria Machado, and it's a collection of short stories that I read maybe like last week, and honestly, I think it might be one of my favourite books.

Laura 7:48

Oh wow.

Bridget 7:49

Historically, I'm not really a person that's like, yeah, short stories, but this was.

Laura 7:52

That's why I haven't read it because it's on my shelf as well. And when I saw it with short stories, I was like, oh man. Same.

Bridget 7:58

Guess I'm never reading it. It was really, really great. And then the last one I had on my list was an ARC that we got through the podcast First by Marina Shishuk. I'm not sure if I'm saying that correctly, but it was fantastic. It's translated by Heather Cleary, but it's like set in Buenos Aires and it's like a lesbian vampire fiction. It's great. So good.

Laura 8:20

There are a couple that I read last year, sort of in succession. The Rachel incident was one of them. Um, but then after that, I read a book called They're Going to Love You by Meg Howrie, and it was so beautiful, it was everything I look for in a story. And not too long after that, I think I read a book called The Great Believers by Rebecca McKay or Mackay. I've I'm never too sure. And they both kind of loosely fall in that genre of story that gave me the same gut punch of a feeling as a little life, which I guess could also be on this list. And then if I was throwing in a podcast book, I would throw in If We Were Villains. Yes, definitely. On or off the podcast, it was an amazing book. That said, I do think that Cemetery Boys may actually be the first book that I've read with a trans protagonist. I'm thinking back over what I have read, and I'm like 90% sure that's true. And that's shocking to me because I feel like I definitely should have read one by now.

Bridget 9:19

I think I have read a few. One that's coming to mind, it's called Fierce Femmes and Notorious Liars by Kai Cheng Tom. And it's about a young Asian trans girl. And it had like interesting elements, but I wouldn't say that I enjoyed it, but it was mainly because it was like magical realism, and I'm just not into that.

Laura 9:38

That's funny that you say that about magical realism, because that was one of my major hesitations with this book. I mean it's YA, which I generally don't enjoy reading because I'm just not the target audience for it. There was a time in my life where I really enjoyed reading it. I'd never dismiss it as a genre, but I think often when I'm reading it, I find myself just wanting a little bit more. And there's stuff that I know I would have absolutely eaten up as a teen. And I think this book is one of them. Spoiler alert, but it just kind of leaves me like a little bit wanting as an adult. And then to add on to that, we have Urban Fantasy, which I'm generally not a fan of, and Paranormal Romance, which left me feeling like a little apprehensive. So feeling a little uncertain.

Bridget 10:27

You've just said everything that I wanted to say that's written in my notes in a more eloquent way. My initial thoughts were mostly negative, unfortunately. I'm not a YAE reader. I'm not that interested in reading about boys. So in the title, I was like, boys, mm-hmm, yuck, no thanks. Boy germs. And I don't really like spooky vibes, fantasy, or urban fantasy, or paranormal, whatever. So I was like reluctantly picking up this book.

Laura 10:54

It is cruel that this was Erin's choice for the podcast.

Bridget 10:57

She is not here to talk about it, but before we get too far into our discussion, this is our regular reminder that if you haven't read Cemetery Boys and don't want to hear spoilers, you may want to bow out of this episode. Some of the themes of this book that we may discuss include transphobia, homophobia, dead naming of a trans character, misgendering of a trans character, gender dysphoria, and discussions of death and violence.

Laura 11:22

Yadriel has summoned a ghost and now he can't get rid of him. When his traditional Latinx family has problems accepting his gender, Yadriel becomes determined to prove himself a real Bruho.

Bridget 11:33

With the help of his cousin and best friend Maritza, he performs the ritual himself and then sets out to find the ghost of his murdered cousin and set it free.

Laura 11:41

However, the ghost he summons is actually Julien Diaz, the school's resident bad boy, and Julien is not about to go quietly into death. He's determined to find out what happened and tie up some loose ends before he leaves. Left with no choice, Yadriel agrees to help Julian so that they can both get what they want. But the longer Yadriel spends with Julian, the less he wants to let him leave. Okay, immediate post-reading feelings are that if my book had that blurb, I would have been way less surprised by a lot of the events of the book. Because I don't know if we have the same copy, but all that this copy says on the back is he summoned a ghost, he can't get rid of him, he's trying to gain acceptance, things are complicated, and then they find it hard to let each other go. No mention of any sort of like murdered cousin or murder mystery. Mine's the same. Mine is sparse. It's not to say that I couldn't have done any sort of curious digging on the internet. I mean, I'll be honest, I didn't read it, so I didn't read the blurb. You're on your own here. This is uh like take a shot if we admit to not reading the blurb or knowing what the book was about before we started.

Bridget 12:49

Also, take a shot of being confused by the blurb. I feel like every time we're like, that's not what happened with the book. Every single time.

Laura 12:57

But this is a real problem. Okay, so how are you feeling post-read?

Bridget 13:01

Ultimately, I would say that as I was reading the book and as I finished the book, I was enjoying myself. But in the week or so after I finished it, I've like been thinking about it constantly. And um, I don't know, I'm a bit confused about it. I think I enjoyed it as I was reading it more because it felt like a book for teenagers, so I was like not really the target audience, and I think I kind of subconsciously held it to a lower standard than other books that we've read. But looking back now, there are certainly many parts where I'm like, what was that about? Like, why was that choice made? So, like ultimately, I'm really just a bit confused.

Laura 13:41

I think. How about you? I think kind of similar. I was trying to read it with the headspace of what would 17-year-old, you know, 16-year-old me feel about this. And I think pretty good. Even if I weren't a child, if just reading this now, I had a good time. I think due to my lack of knowledge of the book, I really enjoyed the element that wasn't the romance, and that took me by surprise because I wasn't expecting there to be sort of this like murder mystery, bit more sort of spooky undercurrent. So that was pretty compelling for me. But same as you having finished the book and ruminating on it, there are a couple of things where I'm like, uh, I mean I get it, but also that's a weird choice to make.

Bridget 14:28

And I think I surprised myself with how much I did like it. Purely because of the reasons I said before, like it's mostly about two boys. It's like not horror, but the parts are a little bit spooky. And then just like the whole paranormal angle to it, I really expected to not like. But I think you're right about the storyline other than the romance, was really interesting.

Laura 14:48

You saying that just made me think that all of the things I expected to not enjoy about this book didn't bother me. The things that I'm like feeling a little bit uncertain about are new. I quite liked the you know, fantasy element. I liked once I realized it was set in LA, I didn't even mind that too much. I was like, well.

Bridget 15:08

Yeah, it seemed kind of cool.

Laura 15:09

Yeah, I was like downtown.

Bridget 15:11

Yeah. Crossing the beach, I'll go on the beach, cool. When I was doing research for my notes and was looking through the five-star reviews and then the one-star reviews, as we uh want to do, there were things that I think also that I had no knowledge about, so like I didn't have an opinion about it as well. And so as I was reading and then like googling things that people had mentioned, I was like, ah, okay, I can see what they mean by that. I read a lot of reviews on Goodreads from people who are part of the Latinx community, and obviously myself, I'm not part of that community, and there were so many like nuanced things that I don't understand. And so reading their opinions and seeing things that they had problems with opened my eyes to another facet of the book, which I think ultimately impacted my enjoyment of it. So, one of the main criticisms I saw in these reviews was that it was basically a mashup of Latin America that was prioritizing Mexican culture or like taking parts from the Aztec or the mine or the Incan cultures that it was sort of seen as mishandling those cultures and misrepresenting them.

Laura 16:18

I was thinking about that as well because I didn't read those reviews until after I'd finished reading the book. And so for me, I'm like quite ignorant of that. Like those different cultural elements, it's all new to me. And so when I was reading it, I was like, wow, this is fun. Like I'm learning so much, like I only have the vaguest understanding of these topics. It kind of comes back to that topic of like how much of a right or how much authority do you have to speak on an experience that's not strictly your own. Um, and I used to really struggle with this because I always thought, like, well, it's fiction, like you can just say what you want, like it's made up, it's not that serious. But then I guess the potential danger is that when you are representing something as fact, a reader like me in this case might be taking it as truth and just trusting the author to be representing that experience authentically. But then the fact is that it's not, and it doesn't have to be a malicious thing, it can just be inaccurate. And so if I had not read those reviews, there would definitely be elements of these cultures that are now wrong in my brain.

Bridget 17:21

And I think that because we don't have that background and we don't have that knowledge, that we're not really going to completely understand those criticisms. On one hand, like obviously people's opinions are their opinions and they can think what they want, but I was also sort of considering the point of view of the author. And I don't know if it's possible to create this sort of like alternate reality or this urban fantasy world. I mean, it's a 400-page book. At some point, there has to be a limit to the depth, and there has to be like creative liberty that is being taken with the story. I was thinking about my experience as an intensive English teacher, and so I'm teaching refugee and migrant children English, but at the same time, I'm trying to teach them about Australian culture. It's like a rabbit hole. You to you talk about one thing, and then you realize there's like 15 other things that you have to touch on, and they may seem small and they may seem like unnecessary details, but to understand this part of the culture, you need to talk about all of these things so you can get sidetracked. So I really feel for the author having these criticisms because they're trying to represent their culture and make it into this new thing, but at the same time has to try to show respect to those cultures, and I think that's such a delicate line to walk.

Laura 18:38

I guess it's also that thing of cultural appreciation versus cultural appropriation. Like, I think my takeaway from this novel is like very positive. It was not overwhelmingly negative, it was new, it was engaging, it made me want to learn more about it. It taught me things I didn't know, and like maybe not all of it's completely accurate, but it's something that I want to learn more about now. So that's definitely a positive thing. And then, yeah, in regards to feeling for the author, that is something I was thinking about as well because like they are a Latinx author, and it kind of made me think of that thing like maybe a lame analogy, but like coffee with milk in it is still coffee, and I guess questioning somebody's identity or like ethnicity or ties to their cultural heritage can surely never be, I don't know, the most sensitive way of doing things.

Bridget 19:32

Had another thought about this too, because I saw some reviewers saying about the use of Spanish, and they were saying the author doesn't even speak Spanish. And what I sort of took from that was like we don't know the reason why the author doesn't speak Spanish, like we don't know the reason why the author grew up in America instead of you know their cultural background. There could be so many different reasons, like economical, it could be, you know, due to war or um poverty or any sort of displacement, and then losing that culture and losing that language is obviously a negative that comes with migration, but that's not people's choice most of the time. And a lot of the time when people are children, it's choices made by parents or it's choices made by governments. All of these people that have to move around the world and lose parts of their culture. I don't think that's something that should be criticized um without a lens of understanding.

Laura 20:26

It may not be right of me to comment on this, also not speaking Spanish myself, but I found that the use of Spanish initially I thought it was like a little bit confusing because often there were sections with no explanation of what it meant, um, and they weren't big sections, and it was normally, you know, fairly straightforward to imply what had been said. But I found that I grew to kind of appreciate that like natural integration of the language. I think just that sort of like natural way of integrating it worked well for me. It didn't seem performative. When sections of Spanish were used, it was for characters that would be speaking Spanish and often used when characters were expressing something like truly heartfelt or truly like personal, which makes sense. So we've made it this far in and we haven't mentioned any of the characters. In a shocking twist, we've completely derailed ourselves. Wow.

Bridget 21:23

All of our preparation. What was it for? Speaking of the characters, I think we need to address the um elephant in the room. We do not know how a lot of the words are pronounced. We did listen to the audiobook, and in the audiobook, the main love interest and the spirit is pronounced Julian with a nickname of Jules. Listening to an interview with the author, the author actually pronounces it Julian. We've hopefully gone for the least offensive route here by just saying the names as the author says them. I mean, we're always happy to be corrected. So I've been. Yadriel, he is Cuban, Mexican, American, gay, and trans. How did you feel about Yadriel?

Laura 22:06

I liked him. Overall. I don't know. I guess I didn't have too many thoughts. And then again, it was that thing after reading where I was kind of like that was a weird thing to say. But they were like sort of nitpicky personal issues, things that would rub me the wrong way if I were interacting with him, I guess, and not really a comment on the way the character was written overall. So maybe we'll talk about some of those things later, but overall positive.

Bridget 22:32

I think Yadriel sucks. Okay, maybe not fully. That was a bit harsh. Um, but he is so selfish. Yadriel is so selfish, and I just I'm so confused about him. I mean, okay, this is a disclaimer. Obviously, he has a very rough relationship with his family, but look at the grand scheme of things, Yadriel. The way he speaks to Julian and the way he just like I don't know, he has so much privilege compared to the other people around him, and he doesn't even realise, and he's always like, oh my god, I can't believe you would say that to me. My grandma is so annoying, she wants me to hug her. Julian is like living on the streets, his he's actually dead. He's actually dead. Firstly, firstly he's dead. But this is the thing. You forget he's dead because so does Yadriel. Yadriel forgets he's dead, and he's so annoyed by this dead boy who he summoned. He he has he has brought him here. And then speaking of crying, I'm about to speak of Yadriel and like people being dead, what what is the deal? Like, obviously, he's grown up in a different culture, the Bruho and whatever, like they have a different relationship with death, but it's a weird treatment of death. Like his cousin is brutally killed, and he's like, Oh, that's so sad. I remember when we were little, he used to take me riding on his bike, and then he's like, anyway, I'm gonna go prove myself to my family. Doesn't give a shit about the cousin's parents, any of his family. He is he sad ever? I those were my thoughts as well.

Laura 24:13

I just didn't feel as passionately.

Bridget 24:17

And then one thing that really got me, sorry, I'm just on a rant right now, but one thing that really got me, it was like Julian's last day, and he was like, Can we do this, this, and this? And he's like, Oh, that is actually, oh my god, I forgot the most, the worst thing, right? They still went to school. Yeah. They still went to school. I've got a mass test. Are you for real? You still went to school when your cousin is dead. People are being picked off the streets. You're being told that there are like displaced youth and like homeless youth that are just missing, and the police have no interest in doing it because like because they're racist.

Laura 24:55

And you seem to be the only person with this information. Like, there are a couple of moments, points of reflection where he's like, I should tell people what I know, but I don't want to get in trouble.

Bridget 25:06

And I don't want to do that because then they they won't trust me and they they won't no, no, no. This is bigger than you. People are dying, and you are going to school. Oh, wake up, baby boy. And then like the last day, and he's like, I don't want to steal a car, I don't want to go to the party. I can't I can't believe you're making me go to a party. I can't believe you just offered me a drink. How dare you? He is dead. He is dead, he's about to like go forever. You are allegedly in love with him, and you are upset that he offered you a drink. He doesn't know you, you've known each other for two days. Two days. This is true, and he's dead. I forgot he was dead because Yadriel forgets he's dead. That is a great point. That is a great point. And he gets frustrated. Like, I'm still ranting, but he's like frustrated because like Yadriel is hungry. Yeah, he's dead. He can't sleep, he can't, he can only eat like the ghost food. There's so many things that I was like, why?

Laura 25:59

Oh those were a couple of my observations as well. There were a few, like um, when his best friend Maritza, who chooses not to do the magic because it involves sacrificing an animal or using blood and she's vegan, and there was this sort of internal monologue he goes on that's like she's so ungrateful. Um I he'd be so grateful to have a scrap of that. Like and it's just you know, just like let your friends make their own choices, basically.

Bridget 26:29

I saw a lot of criticism as well, saying that they're living in a patriarchal society, and in real life, it's very patriarchal, like that's what the reviewers were saying. And he's obviously and like understandably, he wants to be accepted for who he is, and he's like, I'm not a girl. At no point is he like, hey, it's not fair that the men get to do these cool things and they have daggers and and the women have a necklace, they have to stay home cooking. It's not like you should treat women better, it's like I'm a man, treat me as a man. Yeah. But then is annoyed when Maritza is like, I don't want to be just cooking, I want to be doing this.

Laura 27:03

And he's like annoyed by that, very much looking at it through this sort of gender binary. It is interesting that the first person who seems to bring the information to him that probably not the first like trans or queer person in this community is Julian. I found that quite staggering. Like, you shouldn't have to be like fighting to be seen and acknowledged, like in a perfect world, you shouldn't have to be out there proving like I am who I say I am, I can do these things, like just let me try, especially with family. Let me exist, yeah. Like in a perfect world, you shouldn't have to, but you think if you were a part of this community with this really rich and long and deep cultural history, you would be exploring it a little bit and you would be looking for other people like you in this community. Because, like, also this gender binary is to my knowledge, like an extremely colonial kind of construct. Like, there are so many examples throughout history of like indigenous cultures that do not adhere to this, and so I mean, Grant, I guess, I guess he is a child. That's what I had to keep reminding myself. But so annoying. I one I thought that you were going to point out was when Julian's like, oh, my friend grew up in a group home, and he's like, group homes aren't all bad. Oh my god.

Bridget 28:29

I'm like, why would you even say that? Some of my best friends are foster carers. Also, when he was like nearly personally offended that Julian knew like what a trans person was.

Laura 28:41

Yeah.

Bridget 28:42

He really thought Julian was so dumb.

Laura 28:44

All of those things about Yadgeril's character were definitely something that I noticed, but didn't stick with me too much. I think like maybe I was so laser focused on trying to view this as a YA novel and just kind of like reflecting on my own self at age 16. I think that's how old they are. So unbelievably self-focused. And I guess to have your whole sort of like existence being denied by your family, you would definitely have those like lashing out feelings of like ungrateful little vegan bitch. Like you would be feeling resentful even to the people that you love. Definitely for young readers, I really admired the representation. I just think what an amazing thing to be able to put on the page and just have people feel seen and validated. I think it's so wonderful to see that kind of trans representation in a book, especially a book for young readers. Even going through the most arbitrary thing as a teenager can be so isolating. And so I think to see something like this that is like fun and funny and upbeat and reasonably like well written is such an important thing. There was a quote quite early on in the book, I think, that just explained it so well, and it was but belonging meant denying who he was. Living as something he wasn't had nearly torn him apart from the inside out, but he also loved his family and his community. It was bad enough being an outsider. What would happen if they just couldn't or wouldn't accept him for who he was?

Bridget 30:09

Struggle was really such a through line of the book because he was obviously so proud of his culture. He wanted so much to be a part of it and to just to be accepted. That was one of the parts I liked the most. He knew his role and he was ready to do his role. He was just sick of waiting for others to be ready to do his role or to take part in what was important to him.

Laura 30:29

Having that sense of community and wanting to participate in it and not being allowed to show up for the people that you love and not being like respected or seen or listened to by the people you love. That was an element that was enjoyable.

Bridget 30:43

At the start, when the father told him that he needs to go to be with the other women, I was so angry. And then also when the grandmother said you'll always be my little girl.

Laura 30:52

It was interesting to read that kind of thing because I was thinking about how often people must assume they're saying those things out of a place of love. You know, you'll always be my little girl, you'll always be special to me. I guess the subtext is I'm worried about you, I care for you. But the way of expressing that is so far off the mark because the bottom line is you're just not listening, like you're not being respectful. It just shows a lack of care, I guess, is the bottom line. And so at the end, I did cry a little bit at the end when uh his dad said, I'm so proud of the man that you are, or whatever it was. I thought that was so I it was like a wish fulfilled. So I was happy.

Bridget 31:32

I'm not sure if I have ever read a book with this much representation of both culture and of gender and sexuality. Gadriel is Cuban, Mexican American, gay and trans. Julian is Colombian American, he's gay and Maritza is Puerto Rican-Mexican American, Rocky is gay, Flacca is transgender, and the whole cast is Latinx. It is also worth noting that Aidam Thomas is a trans man.

Laura 31:58

While you were rattling off that list of characters and the kind of representation that they bring to the story, I was thinking about the importance of, I guess, visibility and especially for marginalized communities. And I know that this is something that we've talked about for many of the books that we read, this kind of doubtfulness as to the sincerity of the author's intentions, whether it's like a box-ticking exercise, and I definitely don't think that's the case here. And I think although I found the quote to be a little bit lame, um, there was a quote where Julian's talking about his group of friends, and he said, Queer folk are like wolves. We travel in packs. And obviously that's a huge generalization, but to me it makes a lot of sense that these people would be gravitating towards one another and finding like kinship and understanding together. It's not, it doesn't strike me as like overkill or tokenistic, because like to my experience, that is like the reality of it.

Bridget 32:54

I saw that exact quote written in so many of the reviews of the five-star reviews, and I thought that was a really lovely I don't know, like a like a link to each other, um, that all these reviews had this thing in common, and it obviously just made people feel seen and understood. People that have probably grown up without seeing themselves represented in media, and I think that also probably explains why it has such a high rating on Goodreads. It's like 4.28, and I can really understand how people can fall in love with it. It's just it's nice, it's a nice story, even though it does have those like tragic elements. At the end of the day, it's still a love story, and it's like an interesting one as well.

Laura 33:35

I really liked the character of Julian. I love him so much, and I really get why Yadriel was in love with him.

Bridget 33:44

Oh, yeah. I listened to this as an audiobook. I was driving to work, and I got to the bit where he was going to be bye-bye, Julian. I was crying. I was so sad because I thought he'd actually died, and then I was I was very sad.

Laura 34:02

I loved that that kind of character that is just so upbeat and happy go lucky and kind of just happy to go with the flow is just such a joy to read. I yeah, it's such a pain to read like a martyred character that's really going through it sometimes. And so I think this was a really good example of a book where a character is well written and you're able to understand their appeal. Um, and I did find some of the sections of writing about Julian a little bit like overwrought, that kind of like, he's my sunshine boy, you know. I you know, I don't really ever go in for that kind of thing. But again, like I could see it, I got it. I I understand like he's bringing brightness and levity and understanding. He's just taking all of these things about you that you've been taught are like a burden, problematic, you know, an issue to be dealt with or put on the shelf. He's just taking them all in his stride, he's unflappable. And I mean, how could you not love him?

Bridget 35:00

The way I felt throughout most of it is like this is just so unfair that he is dead. You know, he's got so much potential. If he was given the same opportunities as everybody else, like imagine what he could do.

Laura 35:12

Yeah.

Bridget 35:13

He's so kind and he like he's so loyal. I really, really liked him. I think he was my favourite character.

Laura 35:20

I don't have a lot to say about the other characters, and it's probably something that we'll talk about soon because I think there's a reason why I don't have that much to say about them. There's just a couple of things I'd like to say about Maritza as well. I was so relieved to read a character that's vegan as a principle and not as the butt of a joke. But I just really enjoyed it because when it first came up and she was like, I'm vegan, I was like, Oh, here we go again.

Bridget 35:47

I think at the start it was a bit annoying when she was like making gagging noises when they were talking about cheeseburgers. I was like, okay, calm down, calm down. People can eat cheeseburgers, you don't have to, but I really admired her like her commitment to the cause, and also I don't know, I think she was like a voice of reason for Yadriel who does some stupid things, and she was often just like pull it together, honestly. And she was also like the very first shipper of Yadriel and Julian because I have seen there's a hashtag floating around that they're trying to make happen. I'm not sure if it is Jadriel or Julielle. I can't remember what it is. Both are pretty good. Yeah. Speaking of hashtags though, there is something I wanted to talk about, and that is the insane amount of merch that is available for this book. Did you go on the website and see? Should I look now? I've got a list for you. Aid and Thomas has a few books: Cemetery Boys. There's also Lost in the Neverwoods, The Sunbearer Trails, which is part of a duology with celestial monsters. That one's coming out in 2024, and there will be another book in 2024, so quite prolific. But in the merch section of the website, there are portrait prints for all the books. Like different variations of portrait prints. There are keychains for Cemetery Boys and the other series. There are book plates, which is a new thing to me. Have you have you do not book? I don't actually know what a book plate is, but it just looked to me like a book-themed print that was signed. Oh there's stickers, there's stationary packs, there's sticker sets. If you want more than one sticker, there's trading cards, there's taro character cards, there's a trans ghost pin and stickers. That one's actually pretty cute. There's a Julian Diaz necklace, there's a Marigold Skull beanie. There are so many t-shirts, long sleeve tees, there's pullovers. One of them says graveyard gaze, which is very funny. That's great. And there's like prints, and there's also tracksuit pants. There are so many options. I was actually blown away. That was like the thing that I had most, like the most reaction to. It was like, there's so much merch. But something on the website that I thought was so nice is a thing called the bookplate exchange program. But it says, Are you going by your real name now? But the book plate you got from Aiden in the past still says something else. The book plate exchange program is here to fix that. Graveyard Goods is here for gender euphoria. Just add this item to your cart, add a link to a photo of your old book plate with your dead name crossed out on the checkout page, tell us your real name and we'll get fresh book plates in the mail for you. And it's free. Oh, that's so nice. Isn't that so lovely? Oh, tears in my throat. And gender euphoria is such a beautiful phrase as well. I think so. So that I mean, amongst the like just insane amounts of merch, that was that was lovely. But if anybody wants to buy me the marigold skull beanie, please do, because it's very cute.

Laura 38:48

I did notice a lot of marigolds blooming while I was reading this, and I thought, now that's nice. One thing that took me out every time I read it was Gadriel carrying his animal blood in not just any flask, but in his hydro flask. It's very 2019. I don't know why it had to be like a named brand. But I got this whole backstory in my head that he was like this TikTok water talk influencer. Oh my goodness. Like, hey guys, get ready with me to pack my Yeti. To go to the graveyard, like chicken blood.

Bridget 39:28

I decided I'd go for chicken blood today. I went pig blood yesterday, I just wasn't really feeling it, but am I going to chicken blood today?

Laura 39:34

I got this cup attachment at Kmart. Um, I'm gonna put some snacks in it and some offerings. I don't know. I just thought it was so hilarious. I packed my Yeti 34-ounce like rambler tumbler. Like, what do you know?

Bridget 39:49

Well, on the website in the merch, there is a sticker set and it's featured on a Hydro Flask.

Laura 39:57

I think probably one of the other things that kind of let me down in this book a little bit was the overall like writing and pacing of it. And we kind of talked about it before, you know, acknowledging that it is targeted at a young adult audience, so maybe it's not going to fully explore the characters and themes in a way that's I guess wholly satisfying to us, but so much happens in the end half of the book. Again, one of those romances that takes place over a couple of days, which is just something that I just can't buy into. There's things like Miguel's death, the death of his cousin, or his brother that's mentioned at a sentence level, and this hurt that Yadriel like allegedly feels by being rejected by his family. But if we're looking at what's on the page, he doesn't really give two shits about his family. Like I was so confused by who Miguel was because he didn't seem that bothered. And nobody was asking the question of what happened. Like after he died, everyone was just kind of like, it's Miguel, where is he? And I was expecting Yadriel to say, like, what's happened? Like, why doesn't anybody know who like why?

Bridget 41:10

Why? Even when he realized that it was him at the end with like the human sacrifices, he wasn't like Miguel. He was like, Oh yeah, he's there. So true. We found him. Another thing that was really weird, it was when he was talking to Julian about his last day, and he was like, I thought about it for a bit, and I realized that I wouldn't want to spend my last day with my family either. What? Yes, you you wouldn't. Your culture is so important to you. Your family is like your family, and you wouldn't want to spend your last day with them?

Laura 41:40

I mean, like you've been doing this to be accepted by your family. I mean, I don't know. I guess you'd have some pretty complicated feelings. You can still want to prove yourself to your family and not really want to hang out with them full time. You can still want to be loved and accepted by your family and acknowledge that like a little bit of peace at the beach might be better than like a hundred-plus person family gathering, I guess. And it's easy for us to say. Yeah.

Bridget 42:03

But but still, he says some strange things.

Laura 42:07

He does. He does. And and some of the dialogue as well was a little bit of that kind of cheesy, like, oh, you're so frustrating. Oh, I hate how much you annoy me. You get under my skin.

Bridget 42:18

Kind of my jeans are so dirty, I've got to go fix my jeans. What? His jeans are always dirty. He's always annoyed about his clothes. I moved the clean pile of washing from my chair. I glossed over that detail. Always.

Laura 42:33

Did you think that Julian was gonna die?

Bridget 42:36

I didn't think he was going to die until Okay, so what I thought was gonna happen from the start was that Yadriel was going to be like the second coming of Jesus or whatever. And you he was gonna be the guy that has all the power and he's going to save like the bloodline. He was going to come, he was gonna have all of the power, and he was going to say, You guys didn't accept me, look at who I am now. And I thought that he would have the ability to bring people back to life. I thought that he would find Julian and McAllen, whatever, and he would be the new leader and he would be able to bring people back to life.

Laura 43:12

I thought a similar thing. I thought it was gonna be look what happens when you stop putting yourselves in these boxes, look what I can achieve. Yes. I mean, we kind of indirectly got there, but I thought it was gonna happen a different way. Maybe without the intervention from Lady Death.

Bridget 43:26

I think there was a few plot holes in it with like how Julian was dead but wasn't dead. Yes, I was uncertain. And so he was like floating around as a spirit for days. But but Miguel like died instantly. He was stabbed and the blood was dripping out dead. Why did it take Julian two days and like bleed out?

Laura 43:50

Those scenes where he was sort of spasming and blood was coming out of him as a ghost. That was really scary. I wasn't expecting that. That was quite spooky. But what was Happening? Like, was he being stabbed anew? Unsure. And was it some sort of suspended magic? And then at the end, when they had that celebration, I thought uh he had said that only Bruhex could see spirits, but Julian was walking around like, Hey, how you going? Hey, how you going? And that's right, he was the mother. And so I kind of was like, Is it because he's like spent so much time in this sort of in-between state?

Bridget 44:25

I was also sort of wondering if Julian would turn out to have some of the same magical blood as Yadriel, and that was why they had that such a strong connection. I mean, I don't know. I was pretty confused by the ending, if I'm being honest. It was rushed. I think the characters made decisions that weren't really like in line with what I thought they would do. Like, although I liked the way Julian acted when he thought Yadriel was dead, I don't know if I really think that was realistic for his character.

Laura 44:51

I have the same feelings, and I just think there were a couple of missed opportunities. Like with the betrayal by the uncle. I love being betrayed by your mentor. Like that's such a gut punch of a storyline. And I think that's who that character was to him, but we never really got to see it. Like it was alluded to. Just a few conversations like, hey, it's me and you against the world. Yeah. And again, like, you know, it's a novel for kids, and I think that would have been enough for me, age 16, 17. But I would love to see that, you know, the ultimate gut-wrenching betrayal of that. I thought it was gonna be Maritza because they kept saying she could mess you up if she wanted to. That was said multiple times, and I just thought it was thinking maybe. Listening to the audiobook the second time, pretty much spelled out. I missed it though. Well, the Jaguar thing went missing.

Bridget 45:41

Yeah, and every I was just listening to it this morning and they mentioned the Jaguar things about like like 15 times. So I really don't know how I missed it. Like I don't know how I picked up on it honestly. I picked up on that. Erin would be so proud. I was like pretty shocked at the end.

Laura 45:57

Yes.

Bridget 45:57

But I I just really think that I don't know, I I should say I like the ending, but I think instead of him, you know, conjuring up Lady Death or whatever, I think it just would have been or even conjuring up Lady Death, I think it would have been better if he had just been able to revive them without dying for it. But I at the same time I really liked that Maritza was able to step in and and like have a role in that as well. So I mean, I don't know, I'm hard to please.

Laura 46:24

I know. I could rewrite this forever, but ultimately, I guess I did enjoy what I was reading. I thought initially Lady Death was gonna give him a choice of like he can survive, but you have to give him your magic to heal him. And when I the split second, I thought that I was like, no, like you guys at 16, do not give up your life for two. I mean, but then that said, sacrificing your yourself is pretty drastic too.

Bridget 46:50

Yeah, I did sort of feel like I was playing the Sims though. I feel like my Sim, Julian, had died, and then I was like, oh quick, green rebuck, go and plead. Plead, plead for mercy. And then he went and pleaded for mercy. And he was resurrected. So I I don't know, it sort of shook me out of it. I was like, go for the Sims right now.

Laura 47:11

The ghost logic was so weird. I mean, I think the more you think about it, the more impossible it is to establish like a whole-proof ghost logic, but like how he could walk through a grave but then could walk upstairs. Um I know some of it was explained, like he could touch the cat and you know that kind of thing. Could he lie on the bed? Yeah, I know. Okay, I didn't think about that. I shouldn't have. And like, why did he need to go through the house? Why could he not just go through the wall? If he can walk through solid objects, if he can walk through people, why isn't he soaring through the sky? I've seen Casper, I know what happens.

Bridget 47:52

I think the real question is here why is he not stuck in a cafe um drinking coffee and only being able to go to the toilet once a day? Should we write that crossover fanfiction? I think we should. I did see a tweet from the author announcing that Cemetery Boys was going to have a sequel. And I don't know, I'm once again confused by it. The tweet says that it will be told from Julian's point of view, and I pitched it to my editor as the Sixth Sense meets Final Destination, but written by a golden retriever, aka Spooky but not horror. And that made me think that it's going to be the same book, just retold from Julian's perspective. Which leads to my question, should this be a thing? And I think, no. I'm not a fan of retellings. No. Unless it's midnight sun. Literally what I was about to say, you took the words out of my mouth. The only time I will accept this is if it's midnight sun.

Laura 48:48

Because I think like I don't know. I guess there's uh arguments of both camps, but for me it's like the guessing, it's the what if, it's the like not quite knowing how a character feels until they show you. That's like that's romantic, that's lovely.

Bridget 49:04

Yes. And maybe it's just like post-traumatic stress disorder from when we were in high school and every single assignment was gaps and silences. But I don't want to know this. And I also feel the same way about sequels that change point of views. I don't like that. I think that's a feature of poor writing. Hannah Grace, so many, I can't even think of who else. But I just think you write your book, it's either a sequel to progress the story into the future, or even, you know, a prequel's fine, but that's it. That's where the line should be drawn.

Laura 49:36

That said though, if I were a teenager reading this, same as I did with Midnight Sun, I would eat that up. Like if I was out here hashtag and every single day, hashtag, hashtag Jadriel or whatever you said before. Hoolie, hooly dren, yell. I can't, my brain can't combine. Whatever.

Bridget 49:55

Well, it's out here on the streets, rapping my favourite couple, wearing tone birch, beanie, jumper, t-shirt, book plate perchance, tracksuit pants, stickers. Oh no, hydro flask. Blood, chicken blood in the hydro flask. Yeah, I mean you're right. Okay, I stay correct.

Laura 50:16

I would want more of it. I I would want more of it. So if it like, you know, I guess from that point of view, yeah, it does need to exist. Keeping the audience in mind. It's a good time, it's a fun time. I don't want to read it, but people definitely will. I was satisfied with this story, that's what I'm trying to say.

Bridget 50:31

Yeah, me too. The last thing that I feel like I need to bring up is the toll that this book had on me. And you might be thinking, oh, is it because the ghost boyfriend was gonna die or blah blah blah? No, I was really worried about how to pronounce the word cemetery. So for me, I say cemetery. Laura says cemetery, which I feel like is a more like upscale version of what I say. So I was like cemetery, cemetery, cemetery, I don't know. It's like I had a devil and an angel on my shoulder, and I really didn't know which one to go with. Like, I have you had to pick one and that's it. So I picked cemetery, but I am a sleep talker, and and I have an app that records my sleep talking because there have been some really golden moments. Um, often I'm just like laughing or telling people to be quiet. One that was really good was this time when I was just like sad, bad, sad, bad. Like over and over again. But this time I had some sleep talking about this book. I'm I think. Well, I mean it it has to be about this book, and I'll I'll just play it for you.

Eryn 51:49

How did you see you had to sleep?

Bridget 51:55

So I think I was dreaming about whether it was cemetery or cemetery. I sound really distressed. So I don't know. I don't ever want to talk about this book again. Shit, let's wrap it up. Let's do quick rabbit. Okay, okay, okay. So after all of that, let's think about our favourite characters. Mine is easy, it is Julian. Who's yours?

Laura 52:18

Uh, I'm a copier because mine is Julian as well. I mean, there's no other choice. Julian. Julian. Diaz.

Bridget 52:25

Jules, Julian. I love him so much. I love his little necklace. Anyway, who's your least favourite?

Laura 52:32

Um God, there's just not that much to go on, is there? Probably the uncle. Get a grip. Have some acceptance of your lot in life.

Bridget 52:41

Find a way to support your community that doesn't involve killing people. Good plan. It's really solid. I was gonna say Yadriel, but now I feel like a horrible person because I should have said the uncle or the grandmother or the father. Like anyone who was transphobic, you're in the bin. But I mean, Yadriel, you were really annoying. So I think I'm gonna go with Yadriel.

Laura 53:05

That's your truth. Speak your truth. Yeah, okay.

Bridget 53:07

And finally, to end the episode, do you rate this book lit or shit? I rate it lit. I'm going with lit too. At the start, I was sort of thinking shit, but I realized that I was just being mean. I really, I really enjoyed it. And I mean, if I was crying because I thought that Julian was gonna die, then that's lit. That's kind of where I ended up as well.

Laura 53:29

I probably would have finished this if I wasn't reading it for the podcast. It wasn't a book that I was so annoyed by the characters or the writing that I just was repulsed by it. And it did make me cry. So I think if you're getting some sort of emotional reaction from me, you're doing something. Yeah. And if it's not repulsion, then it's all good. Yeah, yeah.

Bridget 53:52

Our next episode will be a talk lit get hit bonus chapter, talking about Emily Henry's newest release, Funny Story. Have your say on what we read next by keeping an eye on the link in our show notes and on our socials. Make sure you subscribe to the show, and if you want to be on the same page as us, follow us at talklit.gethit on Instagram and TikTok.